Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: AmigaOldskooler on February 01, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
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Hello folks! Just read on Generation Amiga that the Tabor might be released at the Amiga32 show in Germany in October this year. So, who's considering getting one? I'm very interested, but it does of course depend a bit on the price. :)
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I'm still undecided. I was quite excited when it was announced back in 2015, but the long wait has definitely killed most of my enthusiasm, as I've moved on to other things. A release over 2 years after the announcement is just too long.
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didnt realise it has already been 2 years ? I just recently learnt about it, and got pretty excited. but October seems like a long way off. waiting waiting..
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didnt realise it has already been 2 years ? I just recently learnt about it, and got pretty excited. but October seems like a long way off. waiting waiting..
It was announced in October 2015, so if it comes out in October this year, it will have been 2 years.
The actual hardware has been available to beta testers for almost as long and runs Linux just fine:
http://amigax1000.blogspot.se/2016/01/my-a1222-has-arrived.html
The delay, as always, was caused by Hyperion/AmigaOS.
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It really depends on the price but I do want one!
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This october. Thats a long way from now. But yes i really want a tabor
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Well, it's not the cheapest way to get a new computer running Amiga OS, but on the other hand, it does go very fast with a dirty great PCI-e port to delight any one of selection of fine graphics cards.
I guess at the other end of the scale, you have things like Pi emulators, which can let you play Amiga games pretty well. They won't do as well as Steam boxes, which I guess might be one of the Tabor's selling points?
It's not like the architecture is that different, Arm Cortext 7 against Tabor isn't so different, but faster memory, better connectivity, 3d hardware graphic rendering, etc.
I guess if you got a souped up Pi variant to run an emulator on, like a Beagle bone, you'd get faster Amiga emulation too - but how fast do you really need? How much do you want to pay to run Amiga software? Cortex Arm 8 is expensive, but has a huge host of hardware options (and licenses to pay for).
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Well, it's not the cheapest way to get a new computer running Amiga OS, but on the other hand, it does go very fast with a dirty great PCI-e port to delight any one of selection of fine graphics cards.
I guess at the other end of the scale, you have things like Pi emulators, which can let you play Amiga games pretty well. They won't do as well as Steam boxes, which I guess might be one of the Tabor's selling points?
It's not like the architecture is that different, Arm Cortext 7 against Tabor isn't so different, but faster memory, better connectivity, 3d hardware graphic rendering, etc.
I guess if you got a souped up Pi variant to run an emulator on, like a Beagle bone, you'd get faster Amiga emulation too - but how fast do you really need? How much do you want to pay to run Amiga software? Cortex Arm 8 is expensive, but has a huge host of hardware options (and licenses to pay for).
Main reason would be to run AmigaOS 4 natively, without the limitations and frustrations of emulation. My desktop computer, laptop, phone, and probably my microwave oven (with a few modifications) can already emulate classic 68k Amigas.
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Holly cow October Hyperion are taking the piss on the amount of time it takes to get OS4 onto another platform. Somebody needs to kick there arse I want one but I fear standalone Vampire might be close by then. I will then loose most of what little hope I have in os4 having affordable hardware to run it on. Come on guys October seriously ????????
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if it's more than 150 quid for a board I don't want one.
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Main reason would be to run AmigaOS 4 natively, without the limitations and frustrations of emulation. My desktop computer, laptop, phone, and probably my microwave oven (with a few modifications) can already emulate classic 68k Amigas.
In fact, anything which can run a web browser:
http://scriptedamigaemulator.net
Which I actually use more than native compiled UAE now!
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Hello folks! Just read on Generation Amiga that the Tabor might be released at the Amiga32 show in Germany in October this year. So, who's considering getting one? I'm very interested, but it does of course depend a bit on the price. :)
i already have one. :hammer:
-- eliyahu
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i already have one. :hammer:
-- eliyahu
ditto !!
:-)
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I'm considering it, but in the end it depends on the price
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I'll get one if the price is right and the performance is significantly better than that of my Sam440.
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I wanted one, but if the price I recently read of 400euro is correct then my interest has significantly dwindled.
Pretty much rhetorical, and voiced out of frustration, but why is it every man and his dog, unless the word "Amiga" is involved seem to be able to produce obscure, and cheap machines, even when in small runs?
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I wanted one, but if the price I recently read of 400euro is correct then my interest has significantly dwindled.
Pretty much rhetorical, and voiced out of frustration, but why is it every man and his dog, unless the word "Amiga" is involved seem to be able to produce obscure, and cheap machines, even when in small runs?
I'll never understand the OS4 mentality. They're fanatical about buying hardware that performs on par with systems from 15 years ago at prices from the year 2025....and an OS that has rough feature parity with Windows 98.
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I wanted one, but if the price I recently read of 400euro is correct then my interest has significantly dwindled.
It's not terrible if that's the price for a complete system but if it's for just the motherboard then it's still better than the cheapest Sam460cr and you also don't have the extra cost of audio and a SATA cards. If it's due in October you could put €50 aside each month until then and then decide if it 's worth the €400 sat in a spare bank account.
Pretty much rhetorical, and voiced out of frustration, but why is it every man and his dog, unless the word "Amiga" is involved seem to be able to produce obscure, and cheap machines, even when in small runs?
What hardware are you specifically thinking of?
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I wanted one, but if the price I recently read of 400euro is correct then my interest has significantly dwindled.
Pretty much rhetorical, and voiced out of frustration, but why is it every man and his dog, unless the word "Amiga" is involved seem to be able to produce obscure, and cheap machines, even when in small runs?
€400 is actually not bad at all for a small batch of a custom designed motherboard. I don't know of any "obscure", but cheap boards with similar power. The Raspberry Pi has sold 10 million units, so I wouldn't call that obscure.
People blame the PowerPC CPU, but the real cost is not the CPU (especially with Tabor), its the custom-designed board. There are cheap credit-card sized ARM SoC boards, but if you want a custom design with PCI-E slots, expandable memory etc., it's going to cost:
https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/gigabyte-mp30-ar0-9mp30ar0mr-00-a1297380.html
x86 would of course be the cheapest option, even if they had to limit it to certain chipsets and CPUs. However with Hyperion taking until October to get AmigaOS running on just another PPC board, I wouldn't expect an x86 port within our lifetimes...If they started now, the "pre-release" Preview version would come out some time around the year 2085...
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I wanted one, but if the price I recently read of 400euro is correct then my interest has significantly dwindled.
Pretty much rhetorical, and voiced out of frustration, but why is it every man and his dog, unless the word "Amiga" is involved seem to be able to produce obscure, and cheap machines, even when in small runs?
I hear ya. I'll never understand the OS4 user mentality. They're fanatical about paying 2025 prices for hardware that performs on par with systems from 2003 with an OS that has rough feature-parity with Windows 98.
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I plan on ordering one as soon as the preorders happen. 400 euros is roughly $450 US which isn't a lot for a custom motherboard with a OS ported to it. I've been wanting to pick up an Amiga 4.x system for sometime, but have no interest in putting out 2K+ on a x1000/x5000.
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I'm getting one when they get availlable.
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If £400 is the price that they are retailing at when they are available I know I will be getting 1 as it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the x5000 :)
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I suspect an ooodle of Tabor will sell as the price appears to be much cheaper than X1K and X5K and this should help unlock bringing many back to the Amiga OS that want a faster experience than the older Classic hardware can do.
Great things are happening in Amiga-land. X5K, A1222 (Tabor), Vampire.
Now hoping Amiga OS 4.2 comes before I go bald. :hammer:
TJ
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I would love to purchase one. Just point at a place that will sell me one. Finally a 4.x motherboard that doesn't break the bank, runs at decent resolutions and with decent speed
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2 years to port to Tabor is a shambles.
There are so many cheap ARM boards - I cannot believe Hyperion have not contacted any to create some cheap Amiga based systems.
ARM 1 Ghz, 1GB PCIe, USB £180.
http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/VIA/VAB-820/?qs=noSWugIXIHr2GDYJY2Aq5w==
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If £400 is the price that they are retailing at when they are available I know I will be getting 1 as it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the x5000 :)
And...a lot less capable, which is why I prefer the latter. :)
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2 years to port to Tabor is a shambles.
There are so many cheap ARM boards - I cannot believe Hyperion have not contacted any to create some cheap Amiga based systems.
ARM 1 Ghz, 1GB PCIe, USB £180.
http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/VIA/VAB-820/?qs=noSWugIXIHr2GDYJY2Aq5w==
A port to this or similar hardware would take longer than Tabor. You're talking about a port to a different CPU architecture, completely new video hardware and a bunch of new I/O.
A lot of driver code for the X5000 can be re-used for the Tabor support. Aside from support for the e500mc core the only additional drivers needed are for the onboard audio and the network, the driver for which will also work on the X5000.
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And...a lot less capable, which is why I prefer the latter. :)
The thing is, most people already have powerful x86 boxes (more powerful than the X5000 in fact) for demanding tasks such as gaming, rendering, scientific calculations or whatever, and only want an AmigaOS system as a secondary box. The small size and equally tiny power consumption are actually advantages then, and performance isn't crucial as long as it runs AmigaOS apps at decent speed and can display most standard websites.
Indeed, until AmigaOS gains 64-bit and multi core support, the additional power is mostly wasted (you can run Linux, but then again, you can run Linux on your cheap 5 GHz overclocked quad-core x86 CPU with that GTX 1080 and 32 GB of RAM, too).
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The thing is, most people already have powerful x86 boxes (more powerful than the X5000 in fact) for demanding tasks such as gaming, rendering, scientific calculations or whatever, and only want an AmigaOS system as a secondary box. The small size and equally tiny power consumption are actually advantages then, and performance isn't crucial as long as it runs AmigaOS apps at decent speed and can display most standard websites.
Indeed, until AmigaOS gains 64-bit and multi core support, the additional power is mostly wasted (you can run Linux, but then again, you can run Linux on your cheap 5 GHz overclocked quad-core x86 CPU with that GTX 1080 and 32 GB of RAM, too).
I don't see that as a legitimate excuse to buy something with that weak a cpu.
And the fact that it won't be able to upgrade to a 64bit OS (should we ever see that) is hardly a selling point.
Also, if the 31 bit memory limitation is lifted, then you've only got 4GB of address space (leaving abou 3.5 GB after I/O is considered)..
Further, I have X64 hardware, but still use alternative hardware.
I just don't think its such a hot idea to buy something with less performance than an over 15 year old G4 PowerMac.
Its got a PCIe slot? Will that matter when even a moderately powerful video card will be bottlenecked by the cpu?
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This is who is getting Tabor thread, not a "who is NOT getting Tabor" thread. You are free start one yourself.
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This is who is getting Tabor thread, not a "who is NOT getting Tabor" thread. You are free start one yourself.
Ah...censorship.
I was simply replying to the comment about pricing.
Its kind of like getting a pair of polyester pants from Kmart at a good price.
If you're really unlucky they'll give you two for the same price.
BTW - a negative reply is just as valid as your positive replies (and in my opinion, quite a bit more sensible).
If you're two cheap to buy an X5000, why not buy a Raspberry Pi?
Everyone here keeps mentioning that as well.
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Ah...censorship.
No censorship would be that you are not allowed to post. I suggested that you start your own thread, with those who doesn't want to buy Tabor. Your posts are OT
If you're two cheap to buy an X5000, why not buy a Raspberry Pi?
Everyone here keeps mentioning that as well.
I have some thirty Computers in my house. Only few of them are Amigas.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUg-6I9cizo
Radeon HD 6450 and Sam 440ep Flex. This is to demostrate, what kind of difference Graphics card do.
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ok so i've been living under a bit of a rock i guess, to have not really heard of this.
my OS4 hankerings and excitment pretty much died when i tried to get my BPPC to kick off a build of OS4 classic. story i wont go into here.
not the easiest introduction i think we can admit, but if this board pops up at a good price i'll be interested.
good to see new kit coming out, and i wish A-EON and whoever has the amiga rights to whatever IP is left all the best for the future and hope they can make a go of it.
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I would like to buy one or two of the boards. They would be even better in something like the X500 cases.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
June 10-11 Pacific Commodore Expo NW -
http://www.portcommodore.com/pacommex
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@RobertB
Trevor has just such a setup which you may have seen in his blog last October.
Something like this would be nice too but it's not practical to build in small quantities like the X500 case
[youtube]r85S48zsqTM[/youtube]
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No censorship would be that you are not allowed to post. I suggested that you start your own thread, with those who doesn't want to buy Tabor. Your posts are OT
I have some thirty Computers in my house. Only few of them are Amigas.
Its a valid point, if it helps, once I obtain the X5000, Tabor could be an option if I find OS4 interesting.
I don't anticipate a MorphOS port for Tabor, so I'd have to find OS4 more appealing than I do from my meager exposure to it.
And I don't think I have thirty systems here (I sell off whatever I'm not currently exploring) - but I have a pretty diverse group of systems myself.
And as I may attend AmiWest this year, I promise not to dump on Tabor (too much). I don't want to piss off Trevor, he's been very good to us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUg-6I9cizo
Radeon HD 6450 and Sam 440ep Flex. This is to demostrate, what kind of difference Graphics card do.
Nice. I have an HD 6450 I pulled from a Lenovo SFF system that died. I guess I'll hold on to that in case...
Unlike the 4550 it replaced, its got hdmi output which was useful as I had it tied to an HD television.
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Trevor has just such a setup which you may have seen in his blog last October.
You mean the one I saw at the Adelaide Retro-Computing Event in September. :)
It was sweet,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
June 10-11 Pacific Commodore Expo NW -
http://www.portcommodore.com/pacommex
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUg-6I9cizo
Radeon HD 6450 and Sam 440ep Flex. This is to demostrate, what kind of difference Graphics card do.
That is a huge difference, I would not have expected such a big difference.
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@thread
hyperion has posted on their blog a new entry (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1282) on the game tower 57 running on an A1222. of course this is an alpha build of the game running on an alpha build of the operating system, but it's already quite a bit faster than a SAM460ex at this point, and should be much better in future. there's also a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS4Eyfywbng) as well. check it out! :)
-- eliyahu
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Every time I see A1222, I think ACA1221 :p
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@thread
hyperion has posted on their blog a new entry (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1282) on the game tower 57 running on an A1222. of course this is an alpha build of the game running on an alpha build of the operating system, but it's already quite a bit faster than a SAM460ex at this point, and should be much better in future. there's also a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS4Eyfywbng) as well. check it out! :)
-- eliyahu
Wow, looks very nice. :) It's cool that Tower57 will be available for AmigaOS 4.
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@RobertB
Trevor has just such a setup which you may have seen in his blog last October.
Something like this would be nice too but it's not practical to build in small quantities like the X500 case
[youtube]r85S48zsqTM[/youtube]
Well there are those new A1200 cases being made... :idea:
However fitting a video card in that without using some kind of PCI-E raiser and doing some custom work is going to be tricky.
But that's one reason I like the A1222. It's so small that you can do some creative stuff with it. I already have a Define XL R2 case for my x86 system, so I don't need another gigantic computer.
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@thread
hyperion has posted on their blog a new entry (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1282) on the game tower 57 running on an A1222. of course this is an alpha build of the game running on an alpha build of the operating system, but it's already quite a bit faster than a SAM460ex at this point, and should be much better in future. there's also a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS4Eyfywbng) as well. check it out! :)
-- eliyahu
btw. this is paricularly compiled native binary for that hardware target, as daniel himself writes, so this isnt representative for regular os4 software unfortunately.
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Well there are those new A1200 cases being made... :idea:
However fitting a video card in that without using some kind of PCI-E raiser and doing some custom work is going to be tricky.
The A1200 case needs to be deeper of the Tabor simply wont fit let alone the video card. Found this project on EAB.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=724498&postcount=8
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http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=724498&postcount=8
scarry.. must put some encyclopedia in front of it while typing.
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That is a huge difference, I would not have expected such a big difference.
That type of speed increase can be seen with games like that one in particular where compositing is used heavily, but not overall, it was explained to me when I was about to go down this road with my SAM440ep-Flex. The series of recent games built like this by same author all benefit, but traditional games and apps don't benefit greatly.
bp
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That is indeed usefull information.
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scarry.. must put some encyclopedia in front of it while typing.
I don't know if the case that was on Indiegogo is going to happen or not but that is a deeper design with an alternative back plate for mounting a thin ITX motherboard, Keyrah and Raspberry Pi. Tabor might go in with a small amount of case butchery at the rear since some of the audio connectors and the second network port would be obscured otherwise.
It all depends on whether the case gets made or not now. I think it was the case Jens mentioned at Amiga 30 in Amsterdam, he said it was better thought out than the Kickstarter case and I'm inclined to agree.
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The A1200 case needs to be deeper of the Tabor simply wont fit let alone the video card. Found this project on EAB.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=724498&postcount=8
Nice design. Is he actually moving forward to make these?
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Nice design. Is he actually moving forward to make these?
If you're asking about the case on EAB then it was just a private project the user made years before and shown to help the OP in that thread who was considering doing something similar.
As for the Indiegogo case the last update from 8 months ago might offer a glimmer of hope.
Dear Supporters, AMIGA CASE enthusiasts,
First of all I like to thank all the people who supported me the last two months and not to forget, the official supporters of AMIGA CASE. Special thanks goes to Vesalia, Imagine3D, KCS, Amiga Inc. and Individual Computers.
AMIGA CASE has been, is discussed on several famous Amiga forums. This makes me very proud and gives me very important feedback and useful information. As a result it becomes clearer what to do better and how to prepare my next steps. I see the last period, running the campaign on Indiegogo, as a learning period, for me it doesn’t end here!
What does that mean? I go forward, make changes and come back. I have a license from Amiga Inc. and it encourages me to go forward with AMIGA CASE.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me!
Kind Regards,
Jarno Smit
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I am likely to get one. I have a SAM440ep-Flex now, on the desk in my DC office here, but I may go for the Tabor. I was so enamored of Epsilon's micro-ATX thin, red tower case that I went to great effort and secured one from the only place on earth that I found it in stock, a retailer in Australia where Epsilon got his. It's sitting here in its box on the floor under my desk. If Tabor ends up being too expensive or otherwise something I don't go for, I will still likely end up with a use for this lovely InWin case. :-)
http://amigax1000.blogspot.com/2016/02/new-case-for-amigaone-a1222.html
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@thread
a few more comments on the state of the A1222 from trevor in his latest blog post (http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=10031). enjoy. :)
-- eliyahu
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This is who is getting Tabor thread, not a "who is NOT getting Tabor" thread. You are free start one yourself.
This sounds like a two way question, not just opened for those wanting a Tabor. If it was a one way question, it should have been described that way. eg. "Who's getting the Tabor? Reply to this thread only if you are getting one."
I for one wont be getting a Tabor. Although my interest in OS 4 grows by the day, so you never know?
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the journey to October is getting longer for me the more I look at this thread..
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I apologize for going completely off topic here...
@Iggy, I coincidentally got an email stating that Big Trouble In Little China Vol. 5 had been released! Had no idea it was even being released as comic books! Saw your sig at the same time...
Back on topic, and maybe this has already been answered, But since the Tabor project is meant to be just a motherboard, would we have to purchase a specific version of OS4 for it? I have the version for classics, but I think it only works on UAE or Original 68k Amigas with a PPC accelerator, right? I always thought that was a terrible move on Hyperion's part..
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i think this is understandable that they want to sell you a copy of their operating system on a per machine basis?
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Back on topic, and maybe this has already been answered, But since the Tabor project is meant to be just a motherboard, would we have to purchase a specific version of OS4 for it?
Yes, you have to.
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How about this one... from Trevor's blog
Go daddy - X500 plus style
"You may recall that Loriano 'The Daddy' Pagni ran a Kickstarter campaign to create the X500 Plus, a special computer-in-a-keyboard case design inspired by the Amiga 500.
X500 Plus
I supported the campaign and had my X500 Plus case sent to Amigakit where it has remained for the best part of a year while I decided what to do with it. When I was in England attending the LAG 10th anniversary show, I made side trip to Amigakit's offices in Cardiff and while there I decided to unpack my X500 Plus case which was still sealed in the original shipping box. I managed to persuade Christopher Follett, AmigaKit's technician, to test a Tabor motherboard with the X500 Plus case.
To be honest it did not take much persuasion and in a very short time Christopher had installed the motherboard and had Tabor booting to to the early startup screen. I was impressed by the quality of the X500 Plus keyboard which had a very Amiga-like feel. The case also included a flexible PCIe cable which allowed the RadeonHD graphics card to be installed horizontally. The case is designed for a Pico PSU and as we did not have one we powered the Tabor with a tradition desktop PSU.
Tabor System Info Screen
The X500 Plus is also overloaded with case fans which I don't think will be needed for the Tabor board but better safe than sorry I suppose.
So was it a success? Are the Tabor motherboard and the X500 Plus a good match? Most decidedly yes and I can't wait to get AmigaOS 4.1 running on my AmigaOne A1222/Tabor system. :-)"
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I missed out on the SAM series , so I got one!
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i think this is understandable that they want to sell you a copy of their operating system on a per machine basis?
Per machine is one thing, but per motherboard too? I know the answer, it just seems like it'd be more work to have per 'system' versions.
I'm still wishing they'd make a new A4000 PPC card that didn't cost an arm and a leg and a nut so I could use my copy of OS4 for classic instead of using it in *UAE.
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I apologize for going completely off topic here...
@Iggy, I coincidentally got an email stating that Big Trouble In Little China Vol. 5 had been released! Had no idea it was even being released as comic books! Saw your sig at the same time...
Thanks!
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The machine is the motherboard.
In for a dime...in for a dollar! (:
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@Iggy
I respect your opinion but from my corner I see this differently :) I buy Tabor now (I already have it in fact) because it is suited for present functionality of AmigaOS. Tabor has 32-bit CPU and AOS4 is also 32-bit. Performance of Tabor is roughly 50% of X5000 which is OK for 400 EUR price tag. I do not think that 64-bit implementation of AOS4 will arrive anytime soon, the same goes for multi core support.
Tabor can accept 8 GB of RAM and it is a dual core system because P1022 is e500V2 dual core. So even Tabor as it is right now cannot explore its full performance under AOS4 which is designed for. Other things like PCIe slot and 800 MHz DDR3 RAM will make it fast enough.
So in my opinion....enjoy A1222 now, buy next thing when available and when AOS4 support it properly. Tabor is not expensive now so I can buy that next affordable thing again when available.
-Dooz
I don't see that as a legitimate excuse to buy something with that weak a cpu.
And the fact that it won't be able to upgrade to a 64bit OS (should we ever see that) is hardly a selling point.
Also, if the 31 bit memory limitation is lifted, then you've only got 4GB of address space (leaving abou 3.5 GB after I/O is considered)..
Further, I have X64 hardware, but still use alternative hardware.
I just don't think its such a hot idea to buy something with less performance than an over 15 year old G4 PowerMac.
Its got a PCIe slot? Will that matter when even a moderately powerful video card will be bottlenecked by the cpu?
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This is how small tabor is. Very small mouse next to the very nice little motherboard :)
[ATTACH]5609[/ATTACH]
Also to compare with HD5450 PCIe GFX card:
[ATTACH]5610[/ATTACH]
And this the Early Startup Control. I am wondering what will be happen with this "Start Classic AmigaOS". Maybe it will start in 68k emulation right from the start of machine to be in some kind of Classic mode :)
[ATTACH]5611[/ATTACH]
-Dooz
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This is how small tabor is. Very small mouse next to the very nice little motherboard :)
[ATTACH]5609[/ATTACH]
Also to compare with HD5450 PCIe GFX card:
[ATTACH]5610[/ATTACH]
And this the Early Startup Control. I am wondering what will be happen with this "Start Classic AmigaOS". Maybe it will start in 68k emulation right from the start of machine to be in some kind of Classic mode :)
[ATTACH]5611[/ATTACH]
-Dooz
That IS small. :D Did not imagine that was the size of the Tabor.
And the last picture is interesting.... :)
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There was some discussion about slow SATA directory listing on Tabor under AmigaOS 4.1 FE pre-release version that was presented on Hyperion blog:
https://youtu.be/fMSvxQIfq2w
I tested on my Tabor under Debian Linux here:
https://youtu.be/hkirsW97xGA
This is a directory listing under Linux Debian and also SATA file copy-paste of two big files on the same disc (simultaneously read-write of 1.2 GB files size). The speed is more than 80 MB/s. So this is realistic transfer in real everyday operation.
So this is how Tabor performs on operating system that is not in alpha phase.
-Dooz
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This is how small tabor is. Very small mouse next to the very nice little motherboard :)
wow!! looks neat!
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@Iggy
I respect your opinion but from my corner I see this differently :) I buy Tabor now (I already have it in fact) because it is suited for present functionality of AmigaOS. Tabor has 32-bit CPU and AOS4 is also 32-bit. Performance of Tabor is roughly 50% of X5000 which is OK for 400 EUR price tag. I do not think that 64-bit implementation of AOS4 will arrive anytime soon, the same goes for multi core support.
Tabor can accept 8 GB of RAM and it is a dual core system because P1022 is e500V2 dual core. So even Tabor as it is right now cannot explore its full performance under AOS4 which is designed for. Other things like PCIe slot and 800 MHz DDR3 RAM will make it fast enough.
So in my opinion....enjoy A1222 now, buy next thing when available and when AOS4 support it properly. Tabor is not expensive now so I can buy that next affordable thing again when available.
-Dooz
I'm feeling the same regarding AmigaOS 4.1 not keeping up with the new hardware. This makes it seem a bit risky and unnecessary to spend so much on new hardware, hoping it will get used "one day".
The Tabor, as you say, should be able to run AOS4 perfectly *today*. If there ever comes a time in the future when 64-bit is required, "Tabor 2" might be available for €400 (€800 spent in total), or you could find a used X5000 for much less than today. That day might never come though - maybe OS4 development will stop, or everyone moves to AROS or MorphOS, or Hyperion switches to x86-64 or ARM for AOS4. At this point, any of those scenarios seem just as likely as Hyperion suddenly adding 64-bit, multi core etc. and making Tabor obsolete overnight.
If you're absolutely decided to go "fully" AmigaOS 4 (no Linux or Windows PCs in your home), then obviously get the X5000 for that extra CPU power. But as a secondary system or "just for fun", while doing other tasks like rendering, video transcoding, gaming etc. on an Intel/AMD system, the Tabor seems like a more reasonable choice.
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There was some discussion about slow SATA directory listing on Tabor under AmigaOS 4.1 FE pre-release version that was presented on Hyperion blog:
https://youtu.be/fMSvxQIfq2w
I tested on my Tabor under Debian Linux here:
https://youtu.be/hkirsW97xGA
This is a directory listing under Linux Debian and also SATA file copy-paste of two big files on the same disc (simultaneously read-write of 1.2 GB files size). The speed is more than 80 MB/s. So this is realistic transfer in real everyday operation.
So this is how Tabor performs on operating system that is not in alpha phase.
-Dooz
To make a fair comparison, you should mount the filesystem with the "sync" flag under Linux, so that it performs operations synchronously, like AmigaOS does.
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The Tabor,...should be able to run AOS4 perfectly *today*...
So far, we have NOT seen Tabor running OS4 software that has not been specifically compiled for its non-standard fpu.
So, when it is seen running OS4 "perfectly", then I'll believe that claim.
Right now, if I could find one, I'd buy a SAM460 in preference.
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Although seemingly contrary to a lot of peoples opinion, the non standard fpu is actually attractive to me. Makes the hardware a little different and interesting. No Amiga/AmigaOne hardware can come close to competing with mainstream hardware anyway, so at least the spes of Tabor make it interesting to see what you can squeeze from it. Having said that though, this is from the perspective of someone who can compile his own binaries.
If I wanted more typical hardware I would, and do use an x86 machine. From a pure "for fun" perspective Tabor is the most interesting OS4 hardware available for my tastes.
I just hope the quoted 400 euro is for a full system and not just the mobo. A Raspberry Pi, with Neon offers the same sort of fun for me as Tabors CPU, and I'm only willing to add a limited premium (still 10* or thereabouts mind you) to have that fun on AmigaOS.
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Although seemingly contrary to a lot of peoples opinion, the non standard fpu is actually attractive to me. Makes the hardware a little different and interesting. No Amiga/AmigaOne hardware can come close to competing with mainstream hardware anyway, so at least the spes of Tabor make it interesting to see what you can squeeze from it. Having said that though, this is from the perspective of someone who can compile his own binaries.
If I wanted more typical hardware I would, and do use an x86 machine. From a pure "for fun" perspective Tabor is the most interesting OS4 hardware available for my tastes.
I just hope the quoted 400 euro is for a full system and not just the mobo. A Raspberry Pi, with Neon offers the same sort of fun for me as Tabors CPU, and I'm only willing to add a limited premium (still 10* or thereabouts mind you) to have that fun on AmigaOS.
propably price only for board, not for full system
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from here (Amiwest):
https://oldschoolgameblog.com/2016/10/08/amiwest-2016-tabor-price-announced/
"Trevor, chief of A-EON Technology (https://www.facebook.com/AEonTechnologyLtd/), just announced that the upcoming Tabor motherboard will be sold for around 400 EURO. Not bad! This will surely bring many into the AmigaOS 4 fold."
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propably price only for board, not for full system
thats at least what has been communicated. and that at a loss. according to announcement the production costs shall be covered by software sales. given that the board appears to need dedicated software to be attractive i wonder how thats going to work.
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thats at least what has been communicated. and that at a loss. according to announcement the production costs shall be covered by software sales. given that the board appears to need dedicated software to be attractive i wonder how thats going to work.
I do not understand that too. I personal would have neither developed X5000 nor Tabor. It is a financial risky bet. On the other hand... not my money in fire
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Although seemingly contrary to a lot of peoples opinion, the non standard fpu is actually attractive to me. Makes the hardware a little different and interesting. No Amiga/AmigaOne hardware can come close to competing with mainstream hardware anyway, so at least the spes of Tabor make it interesting to see what you can squeeze from it. Having said that though, this is from the perspective of someone who can compile his own binaries.
If I wanted more typical hardware I would, and do use an x86 machine. From a pure "for fun" perspective Tabor is the most interesting OS4 hardware available for my tastes.
I just hope the quoted 400 euro is for a full system and not just the mobo. A Raspberry Pi, with Neon offers the same sort of fun for me as Tabors CPU, and I'm only willing to add a limited premium (still 10* or thereabouts mind you) to have that fun on AmigaOS.
You could offer to do SPE compiles of software already ported to OS4.x for small bounties and get the Tabor to pay for itself over time.
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thats at least what has been communicated. and that at a loss. according to announcement the production costs shall be covered by software sales. given that the board appears to need dedicated software to be attractive i wonder how thats going to work.
Trevor said he hopes to sell at cost, not loss. He also said it depends on the agreement of Matthew. I think realistically there has to be some amount of profit otherwise dealers might not be too keen to stock it.
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I think realistically there has to be some amount of profit otherwise dealers might not be too keen to stock it.
The issue cuts much deeper than that.
By pleading the case that products are developed without profitability in mind, the Amiga market continues to be cast as a charity with limited prospects.
It also convinces buyers that products don't have to be commercial grade because the intentions are good and the resources simply aren't there.
No one is cross-shopping the A1222 with mainstream hardware thinking that $25 less per unit is going to make it the better choice. Even a profit of $25 per board @ 1000 units would help subsidize continued development and support efforts.
This whole "hobbyist market" mentality doesn't help anyone.
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I do not understand that too. I personal would have neither developed X5000 nor Tabor. It is a financial risky bet. On the other hand... not my money in fire
Except money invested in hardware development can generally be recouped or worst case, written off as a material loss.
On the other hand, software in this market always seems to require an extensive budget and protracted timetable, with new releases coinciding with leap years.
If OS support was delivered when the Tabor was announced it might have made sense - in October 2015.
We're now looking a period of up to 2 years for it to materialize. And that means more "stick with the PPC" mentality, long after the shelf life of that processor expired.
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Although seemingly contrary to a lot of peoples opinion, the non standard fpu is actually attractive to me. Makes the hardware a little different and interesting. No Amiga/AmigaOne hardware can come close to competing with mainstream hardware anyway, so at least the spes of Tabor make it interesting to see what you can squeeze from it. Having said that though, this is from the perspective of someone who can compile his own binaries.
If I wanted more typical hardware I would, and do use an x86 machine. From a pure "for fun" perspective Tabor is the most interesting OS4 hardware available for my tastes.
...
++
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I really shouldn't, but I think when these are available, I will pick one up. I wanted one an x5000 or x1000, but they are a bit too costly for something I may not have the time to enjoy.
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...Having said that though, this is from the perspective of someone who can compile his own binaries.
If I wanted more typical hardware I would, and do use an x86 machine. From a pure "for fun" perspective Tabor is the most interesting OS4 hardware available for my tastes.
exactly.foem a prespective of somone able to compile their own binaries tabor might be as interesting as some other obscure microcontroller board. or as ammx extended 68k apollo fpga core.
only most of the people cheering os4 hardware seem not to be able to do that. well there is some small group engaged of this or that development. who knows, there might even be stll more of them than morphos or aros dedicated coders, even though their numbers will likely never exceed the crowd coding for genuine amiga in one or other manner. but it looks like the majority spends their time on forums waiting, demanding, dreaming of something, or most commonly trying to fix their trivially broken setups or hardware, putting their lack of knowledge of the system on display. i might be wrong, but i think, its those casual users, who need to be addressed, instead of piviledged knowledgable who anyway occupy the front of the bus for themselves. otherwise even those rest of actual public will leave at one of the next stops and one may find himself alone wit the driver.
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Video: A1222 Tabor in Action (posted Feb 24, 2017).
[youtube]XPdr7MaGvLo[/youtube]
bp
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The videos are awful, tearing all over the place. Guess its cpu only
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@JJ
The (non)existence of tearing provides zero hint whether something is rendered using GPU or CPU. It simply tells you if vertical sync was used or not.
And AFAIK there is no real 100% proper way on AOS4 to do true vsync in window mode.
The frames of the videos played in the video are certainly calculated using the CPU, simply because there's no interface to do the job on the GPU (yet).
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Is the FPU of this SOC good for 3D Rendering?
edit:
Here is a video of the A1222.
It looks impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arlwhr80A_U
[youtube]Arlwhr80A_U[/youtube]
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I guess I'd buy one if I could?
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I buy for sure. But the waiting .... i am impatient
My wife think that i am a little bit crazy to wait so many years and still hoping for the short term, to get one
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Here the XE sits side by side with the 060 PIV and i5 or 7 or whatever pc and is nearly never booted as there is nothing new to do. In 2004 it was exciting. 2014 maybe.
Anything new like a browser? (Sorry..)
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I have al so emulation on mij mac mini. Amikid x.
I use it a litle. I just d'ont like emulation.
On the other side i have Morphos 3.9 on my powerbook G4 with a big 17" screen. I use it serval times a week, good os.
For just browsing, it is slow but for what i do, i have not a lot of problems. Of corse not all websites work, but for me it is ok.
There is a lot of good software for morphos.
I have just not " the amiga " feeling with MorphOs.
That is the reason i want the Tabor. I can not now of the machine is that wat i hope.
Of course i hope he is faster than my powerbook g4 and 1.76 Mhz.
But for real speed i d'ont by the Amiga. I now that my Mac or a PC is a lot faster for the money.
I just like Amiga and the fun and nostalgie of it.
Why os4? There is the possibility to do modern things with it, what is not possible with Classic Amiga.
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A bit more modern yes. Also the new have memory, GFX and Drive speeds that are far better than in this XE G4 case. Both still lack the todo with.
When IB and others come I'll get the new MUI and Magellan and start playing again. It is Really fun Amiga things. Bought this for some more power needing Classic programs and for the future ones. Most classics didn't run.
Back then this should have been an expansion to the A1200.
Offcourse USB, DVI and Memory and others come so it's more modern Amiga OS. Hundreds of Gigabytes of HD/SD in an Amiga. Yes Please.
With the PIV , King Of The GFX Cards couldn't use DPVI for example, neither with the XE so had to go back as any other program just isn't for me. Many others. In Games like Payback.
Still waiting.. So my point was the proggies. Would it be Tabor or X10000.
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I buy for sure. But the waiting .... i am impatient
My wife think that i am a little bit crazy to wait so many years and still hoping for the short term, to get one
I'm still waiting, but I've stopped thinking about it. If/when it comes out, I'll probably buy one. Until then, there's a lot of other stuff to keep me busy, both in Amigaland and the rest of the computing world.
Starting to wonder whether it will ever come out, or if Hyperion are in too much trouble to complete the development of the OS for it. The boards have been ready since 2015. Now we're just waiting for the OS.
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@trekiej
>Is the FPU of this SOC good for 3D Rendering?
Not so bad
When new progs will use Nova or GL-ES then the FPU will no more have much importance as it will be the GPU that will do all the math for 3D
Also MiniGL (that use Warp3D not Nova) may be recompiled at some point to use the Tabor FPU so may improve rendering for old games on Tabor
Also note that your video prove nothing as
- 3D objects dont have much vertices
- It use Nova so it is the GPU that move the vertices
so Fpu usage is very low
Certainly a new MiniGL using Nova will appear one day ... but we will have to wait ... two more weeks ... a lots of time
Alain Thellier
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I noticed that when Debian 8 was running it showed 2 cores and a third unknown core.
What is the third Core?
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A bit more modern yes. Also the new have memory, GFX and Drive speeds that are far better than in this XE G4 case. Both still lack the todo with.
When IB and others come I'll get the new MUI and Magellan and start playing again. It is Really fun Amiga things. Bought this for some more power needing Classic programs and for the future ones. Most classics didn't run.
Back then this should have been an expansion to the A1200.
Offcourse USB, DVI and Memory and others come so it's more modern Amiga OS. Hundreds of Gigabytes of HD/SD in an Amiga. Yes Please.
With the PIV , King Of The GFX Cards couldn't use DPVI for example, neither with the XE so had to go back as any other program just isn't for me. Many others. In Games like Payback.
Still waiting.. So my point was the proggies. Would it be Tabor or X10000.
What's an X10000? ;-)
Tabor support might be completed this year.
If you all are lucky it will be ready by AmiWest 2018.
Beyond the issues with the cpu, the limited expansion capabilities put me off
Once a video card is installed you are out of expansion slots.
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Depends if Vampire stand alone comes first then my interest will be a lot lower. It has already taken far to long.
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@PR
With the PIV , King Of The GFX Cards couldn't use DPVI for example, neither with the XE so had to go back as any other program just isn't for me.
Was DPVI a Deluxe Paint version used by Electronics Arts employees for internal 2D art? Did you find a leaked copy? ;-)
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What's an X10000? ;-)
Tabor support might be completed this year.
If you all are lucky it will be ready by AmiWest 2018.
Question keeps interesting which will be first: Tabor with OS4 or MorphOS3.10.
Both are way overdue.
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I like the nice mood at amiga.org , a bit jelaous as been an "NG" . Stay out of the other not so polite.
Ok so AX1000/0 and DPV/I is a bit futuristic dreaming.
Make it A1XE and PersonalPaint for here.
Still, as before I go back to the A1200 with some whistles and my two AmigaGirls just love DP and all the fun games. (Just turned 8 and the other five, they love eg. IK+ with TAC-2:s;)
How bad is that? ;)
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Question keeps interesting which will be first: Tabor with OS4 or MorphOS3.10.
Both are way overdue.
and i want both, darn it! ;)
-- eliyahu
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Question keeps interesting which will be first: Tabor with OS4 or MorphOS3.10.
Both are way overdue.
Yes, the delay on both is getting a bit much.
3.10 was demo'd at AmiWest last year, and we all know Tabor has been ready for some time.
But the MorphOS team won't release 3.10 until they are happy with it, and Hyperion has to finish the OS4 port for Tabor before Aeon will sell that.
Further, since you can't plug a network card into Tabor or any other expansion card, ALL the drivers have to be ready when shipped.
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Depends if Vampire stand alone comes first then my interest will be a lot lower. It has already taken far to long.
Something to look out for.
No NG system but very nice.
I so the Vampire at amiga32, impressive.
The Vampire v4 wil be even faster and more memory.
Perhaps there is first the new vampire, and than the A1222.
Of course that there is competition to this, is some thing that everybody nows. At Hypirion, Trevor and the Vampire team.
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Most impressive would be a ready full Amiga package.
Like Cartoon Classics + a night in a hotel + DeluxePaint etc..
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Most impressive would be a ready full Amiga package.
Like Cartoon Classics + a night in a hotel + DeluxePaint etc..
If they make another batman movie, they ought to see if they are willing to spend some of their marketing money recreating http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/a500batman.html
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I'm very interested in the A1222 Tabor as a possible replacement for my existing MicroA1.
---
redfox
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If they make another batman movie, they ought to see if they are willing to spend some of their marketing money recreating http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/a500batman.html
I'd like an "I'll Be Back" Terminator-package as Arnold is still alive.
A working one should be the next AmigaOne. Just maybe behind the scenes Trevor is making one. Myself selling some migas found it just too much to compile everything ready to go as our only supplier does. Installing everything.
Standard could be the magic again?
We've lost that.