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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: CodePoet on December 11, 2016, 06:27:25 AM

Title: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: CodePoet on December 11, 2016, 06:27:25 AM
Just spotted this card on Hack-A-Day today, which claims to be an open source Zorro II/III card for A2000/3000/4000: http://hackaday.com/2016/12/10/amiga-zorro-hdmi-graphics-card-hits-the-market/

Here's a link to the authors site (apparently sold out already): http://shop.mntmn.com/product/mnt-va2000-amiga-graphics-card-zorro-ii-iii

I've not heard of this project before. Apparently the card is RTG compatible and fully upgradable/hackable by the user.

...Some of the comments are fantastic:
Quote
Amiga has become a sysinfo loader a long time ago. All those addons are used only to satisfy memberies, to load sysinfo and bask in the glory of red bar being longer than blue bars
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 11, 2016, 09:06:58 AM
Information about that card pops up periodically on the various Amiga Facebook pages and Google+. Seems like a nice card. I meant to share something a few weeks ago but life got in the way. :(

Sadly a lot of decent "homebrew" Amiga hardware doesn't get shared on this forum, and without support of any major manufacturer or distributor, often languishes in relative obscurity. :(
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Jeff on December 11, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
http://shop.mntmn.com/product/mnt-va2000-amiga-graphics-card-zorro-ii-iii-batch-2-preorder
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: apsturk on December 11, 2016, 09:26:26 AM
Thank you for posting I have read everything including the information at GitHub info. This is a very cool project indeed. I am going to have my guys look in to this as well. I seems that anyone can build a card themselves.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Kernel on December 11, 2016, 02:38:31 PM
Perhaps he can do a USB card next and make an entire like of cards :)
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LoadWB on December 11, 2016, 05:47:11 PM
This is cool:

   a slot for MicroSD cards that can be mounted in AmigaOS.

Would be kick-@$$ is that is bootable.

From the HaD article:

   it’s fair to say this development won’t revive the Amiga platform in the way that the Raspberry Pi has for RiscOS.

No, but it's fair to say the Vampire has had a massive effect (at least in pre-order stage, yeah?)

ALTHOUGH, I do have to ask why are we still lingering in IDE when we could linger in SATA.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: vince_6 on December 11, 2016, 07:08:35 PM
I would love to see a display video of it.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LuigiThirty on December 12, 2016, 04:40:59 AM
Looks like a much better deal than digging up a Picasso96 card from Amibay. I'd also love to see a video of it in operation.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: CodePoet on December 12, 2016, 12:11:06 PM
I'm actually very surprised that they haven't posted a video of it in action - Dropped them an email, hopefully they come through with something.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: CodePoet on December 12, 2016, 12:13:13 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;817583
Information about that card pops up periodically on the various Amiga Facebook pages and Google+. Seems like a nice card. I meant to share something a few weeks ago but life got in the way. :(

Sadly a lot of decent "homebrew" Amiga hardware doesn't get shared on this forum, and without support of any major manufacturer or distributor, often languishes in relative obscurity. :(


I hear you on both counts man, life has been kicking everyone in the dick this year. I hope for the creators sake that the card takes off. Always good to see new hardware, even better to see Open hardware.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Iggy on December 12, 2016, 01:22:14 PM
There is a new batch of these due out next year and pre-orders are being taken now.
This is the RTG card I intend to install in my A2000, whether I get a Vampire not not.
And I may just stick with a conventional cpu for the A2000.
Also, in comparison with the Vampire2, this is a cheaper upgrade.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LoadWB on December 12, 2016, 02:15:41 PM
My biggest problem with video cards is the lack of native video pass-through.  It is so much easier to have an all-in-one solution to reduce the number of devices need to work with my systems, or special monitors or switches, etc.  My PIV and Retina both have FF/SD pass-through, which is great.  Even if I had to buy an Indivision to FF/SD the native signal then pass that through an RTG card.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: CodePoet on December 12, 2016, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;817633
My biggest problem with video cards is the lack of native video pass-through.  It is so much easier to have an all-in-one solution to reduce the number of devices need to work with my systems, or special monitors or switches, etc.  My PIV and Retina both have FF/SD pass-through, which is great.  Even if I had to buy an Indivision to FF/SD the native signal then pass that through an RTG card.

I guess the required signals don't appear at the Zorro bus to handle this sort of thing internally. With that said, I wonder if it's feasible to do something exceptionally sh*tty, like grab the RGB/CSYNC signals from Denise using an additional adaptor, feed them to the card, and process/upscale them to output via HDMI using the onboard FPGA when native video is in use?

The signals out of Denise (and prior to VIDIOT on the A2000) are digital, 13 signals in total assuming we'd only need R[0:3], G[0:3], B[0:3], and CSYNC - Conceptually it wouldn't be all that complex of a task for an FPGA
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Robbie on December 12, 2016, 03:16:42 PM
Quote from: CodePoet;817636
I guess the required signals don't appear at the Zorro bus to handle this sort of thing internally. With that said, I wonder if it's feasible to do something exceptionally sh*tty, like grab the RGB/CSYNC signals from Denise using an additional adaptor, feed them to the card, and process/upscale them to output via HDMI using the onboard FPGA when native video is in use?

The signals out of Denise (and prior to VIDIOT on the A2000) are digital, 13 signals in total assuming we'd only need R[0:3], G[0:3], B[0:3], and CSYNC - Conceptually it wouldn't be all that complex of a task for an FPGA



The video signals are present on the Zorro III bus, but the guy designing it did so for his 2000.

The Picasso IV had the genius design of having a circuit board you could snap and put into the video slot of the 2000 and connect back up to the board in the Zorro slot but I guess that would have been a lot harder to implement on this project; especially if he really only needed it for productivity software etc.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: guest11527 on December 12, 2016, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: CodePoet;817636
I guess the required signals don't appear at the Zorro bus to handle this sort of thing internally.
Right. They appear on the video slot but not on Zorro. But even if they would: The signal is not suitable for HDMI, the frequency is too low, and you would need at least an build-in scandoubler, or frequency upscaler.

I believe this has been tried, but the quality was not very remarkable.

Quote from: CodePoet;817636
With that said, I wonder if it's feasible to do something exceptionally sh*tty, like grab the RGB/CSYNC signals from Denise using an additional adaptor, feed them to the card, and process/upscale them to output via HDMI using the onboard FPGA when native video is in use?
Such a sh*tty thing already exists, namely in the form of the Indivision. All it would need is an input socket on the graphics card that connects to the Indivsion.

But yes, I agree, the unavailability of a native video pass-through is highly annoying.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: kirk_m on December 12, 2016, 06:27:41 PM
Could a Ratte monitor switch be adapted to this kind of use?  I know the Ratte uses VGA-style connectors, but, can it be changed to use an HDMI input as well?
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: giZmo350 on December 12, 2016, 06:51:37 PM
Not to be negative about this card but, I LOVE the Matze RTG card I bought a while back! Scan doubled input from Indie ECS with pass-thru + auto switch.  :)

http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56&language=en
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: kirk_m on December 12, 2016, 07:57:16 PM
Quote from: gizmo350;817645
Not to be negative about this card but, I LOVE the Matze RTG card I bought a while back! Scan doubled input from Indie ECS with pass-thru + auto switch.  :)

http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56&language=en


What drivers do you use for it?  I've seen that one before as well, but, noticed that it comes with no software or drivers.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: giZmo350 on December 12, 2016, 08:06:08 PM
Quote from: kirk_m;817649
What drivers do you use for it?  I've seen that one before as well, but, noticed that it comes with no software or drivers.


P96 Drivers.... and...
Instead of adding or edititing screenmodes you can use these Picasso96setting File.... extract it to DEVS:

Grab the file here....  too easy!
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=810409&postcount=105

Original posts here...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70917

Sorry..... off topic....
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: guest11527 on December 12, 2016, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: kirk_m;817643
Could a Ratte monitor switch be adapted to this kind of use?  I know the Ratte uses VGA-style connectors, but, can it be changed to use an HDMI input as well?

No. VGA and HDMI are very different. Besides, you would first need an HDMI output of the native chipset.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Iggy on December 12, 2016, 08:38:18 PM
Quote from: Thomas Richter;817642
... I agree, the unavailability of a native video pass-through is highly annoying.


You must be easily annoyed. I've been using monitor switches for years and pushing a button is not much effort on my part.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: klx300r on December 12, 2016, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike:

...Sadly a lot of decent "homebrew" Amiga hardware doesn't get shared on this forum, and without support of any major manufacturer or distributor, often languishes in relative obscurity. :([/QUOTE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike, better start taking some memory loss precautions ;) @ all, this is why you should make visiting the a.org a daily ritual

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70957&highlight=zorro
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LoadWB on December 12, 2016, 09:54:22 PM
Quote from: Thomas Richter;817651
No. VGA and HDMI are very different. Besides, you would first need an HDMI output of the native chipset.

Which you can get from an Indivision.  At least HDMI switching is fairly easy and inexpensive, but I am not certain about automated (one priority source.)

EDIT: Well, shut my mouth!
https://www.startech.com/AV/Switchers/3-Port-HDMI-Auto-Switch-with-IR-Remote-Control~VS123HD
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Iggy on December 13, 2016, 12:21:24 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;817662
Which you can get from an Indivision.  At least HDMI switching is fairly easy and inexpensive, but I am not certain about automated (one priority source.)

EDIT: Well, shut my mouth!
https://www.startech.com/AV/Switchers/3-Port-HDMI-Auto-Switch-with-IR-Remote-Control~VS123HD


And again, HDMI switches are dirt cheap, those I have will switch automatically when only one input is providing a signal (otherwise you push a button or the remote).
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: CodePoet on December 13, 2016, 12:46:31 AM
Quote from: Thomas Richter;817642

Such a sh*tty thing already exists, namely in the form of the Indivision.


Haha shots fired!

Love your work though, Thomas. Thanks for clarifying. I figured there would have to be some frame buffering at the very least, but it's good to know that it's been tried before.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: CodePoet on December 13, 2016, 12:48:18 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;817662
Which you can get from an Indivision.  At least HDMI switching is fairly easy and inexpensive, but I am not certain about automated (one priority source.)

EDIT: Well, shut my mouth!
https://www.startech.com/AV/Switchers/3-Port-HDMI-Auto-Switch-with-IR-Remote-Control~VS123HD


...And they're like five bucks on Ebay!
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LoadWB on December 13, 2016, 02:40:54 AM
Quote from: CodePoet;817678
...And they're like five bucks on Ebay!


Yeah, but I'll buy wholesale.  I really don't want to trust the chance of cheap knock-offs.  I don't mind $29 if it means I get what I pay for.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: amiga4366 on December 13, 2016, 03:14:11 AM
What software would you need to drive this card?
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 13, 2016, 04:09:45 AM
Quote from: amiga4366;817684
What software would you need to drive this card?


It uses a modded P96 driver, AFAIR.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Iggy on December 13, 2016, 12:14:38 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;817683
Yeah, but I'll buy wholesale.  I really don't want to trust the chance of cheap knock-offs.  I don't mind $29 if it means I get what I pay for.


You buy wholesale, but you pay more than I do?
The cheap $5 'knockoffs' work perfectly for me, I have three of them.

Some Chinese stuff is junk, but these have performed flawlessly.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LoadWB on December 13, 2016, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: Iggy;817691
You buy wholesale, but you pay more than I do?

Apparently.

Quote
The cheap $5 'knockoffs' work perfectly for me, I have three of them.

Some Chinese stuff is junk, but these have performed flawlessly.

I rather not take chances.  I saw $5-ish IDE to SATA adapters back when they were generally $25-$50 each which had no logic just wiring.  Same for USB-to-Firewire adapters.  Can't tell until you get them in many cases and it's a waste of time and money.

Some people have all good experiences, some have good with occasional bad mixed in; I personally like much better odds and guarantees.  I have neither the time nor the money to waste.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: LoadWB on January 31, 2017, 07:05:09 PM
WOAH!  Running this thing in 1280x920 (best this monitor will support) at 16bit is awesome.  Though for some reason I am having problems getting backdrops to load (using fresh installation of WarpDT datatypes.)

On a 25MHz 040 this thing really makes a difference in working with Workbench.
Title: Re: A new open source 'Zorro' Graphics Card?
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 01, 2017, 03:28:59 AM
Glad to hear it. That's double bandwidth of AA chipset in colour depth and if it's refreshing good and quick, does indeed make a big difference to GUI friendly applications.

A big up from ECS I guess too, although ECS can only really be snappy at maybe quarter the horizontal and vertical resolution with far few colours.

Modern graphics cards = faster video Ram. Better than most classic hardware, and if it doesn't break the bank, even better.

Now, where did I stash all the nifty 3D design and CAD software... Should really behave itself. Not so much rendering 3D scenes as being able to move around and tweak things in an editor. :)