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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 05:36:34 PM

Title: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 05:36:34 PM
i just got in today a A500 Video RGB to 6Pin RGB cable i can see it in color but its not Syncing like Vhold or H-hold needs changing but the 1084 doesnt have any VC/H-hold knobs for adjusting :/

any way to correct this ? as i hope i didnt just waste 24$.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 21, 2016, 06:08:39 PM
Are you trying to troubleshoot the monitor or the cable?  Try connecting via the composite output from the Amiga to the monitor, does it display correctly then?
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 06:26:11 PM
Yea but only in greyscale
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 21, 2016, 06:55:27 PM
Quote from: CaelThunderwing;816664
Yea but only in greyscale

That's as it should be.

Okay, if the monitor displays everything correctly when connected via composite, your problem is most likely the cable.  Sometimes these old 1084's have cold or cracked solder joints on the inside (where the circuit board connects to the connector) which can cause erratic operation, but I'd try a different cable first.

When you say "it's not syncing", what exactly do you mean?  Is the picture rolling or something?  Some of these 1084's have adjustments that can only be made on the inside.  C=, in their infinite wisdom, made about 10 different models of "1084", all of which are slightly different.  :(
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 07:04:50 PM
yea it scrolls  its connected to the 6 pin plug i havent purchased a 8 pin adapter for the TTL RGB.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 21, 2016, 08:14:20 PM
According to this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-41527.htmlhttp://) some models of 1084 have a v.sync pot inside the case, adjustable with either an allen wrench or a flat screwdriver.  IMHO I'd try another cable, first.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 08:36:52 PM
should io try for another 6 pin or get the bpin TTL Cable like from here? https://www.vesalia.de/e_amigamonitorcables.htm
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: James1095 on November 21, 2016, 08:37:59 PM
Do you have access to an oscilloscope? A logic probe would also work in a pinch. What you want to do is check the Vsync pin in the monitor end of the cable and see if the sync signal is there.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 09:34:09 PM
thatd be a no on both ends sadly :/
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: UberFreak on November 21, 2016, 10:24:44 PM
Do you have a multimeter?
Then you can at least check if the cable is wired correctly.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 21, 2016, 11:39:24 PM
i think i do would i be looking for any feedback on the CSYNC Pin?

and if i haveto order a new cable the site i linked earlier and w/ the images i posted should i get one for the 8pin DIN or the 6pin DIN ?

EDIT: added pictures as attachments to make it easier, forgot that the iphone4 takes at such an image size.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: commatari on November 21, 2016, 11:49:45 PM
You will need a 6 pin DIN connector for the 1084P monitor. The input is analog RGB.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 21, 2016, 11:52:30 PM
Whoa there big boy, try scaling those pictures down, or use the built-in forum tools to attach them to your post.  Makes 'em a lot easier for people to see. :lol:

If you don't have any other testing equipment, try testing the continuity of the six pins on the cable.  A basic multimeter can do that for you.  Make sure they're connecting to the right pins on the 23-pin connector.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 22, 2016, 12:02:42 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;816695
Whoa there big boy, try scaling those pictures down, or use the built-in forum tools to attach them to your post.  Makes 'em a lot easier for people to see. :lol:

If you don't have any other testing equipment, try testing the continuity of the six pins on the cable.  A basic multimeter can do that for you.  Make sure they're connecting to the right pins on the 23-pin connector.
 is there a wirediagram i can use to know which connects to witch on the 23pin side?

and if the amiga would only work w/ the 6pin DIN adapter whats the 8 pin TTL one for?
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 22, 2016, 12:34:05 AM
Read through this thread:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-15907.html

You are not the first person to ask these questions.  ;)
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: commatari on November 22, 2016, 12:35:30 AM
TTL RGB is what the early IBM PCs used, also the C= 128.


Here's a diagram to connect an Amiga to the 1084P. Would probably be best to connect all the grounds on the Amiga side together (pins 16 through 20).

http://raspinovca.ru/cocolevca/Amiga-to-C1084-Monitor-Cabl.gif (http://raspinovca.ru/cocolevca/Amiga-to-C1084-Monitor-Cabl.gif)
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor
Post by: CaelThunderwing on November 22, 2016, 07:44:33 PM
edit: with teh pin fixed,  this has come back to life :D

(http://i.imgur.com/nMjVI5A.jpg)
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Dandy on November 23, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: CaelThunderwing;816661


i just got in today a A500 Video RGB to 6Pin RGB cable i can see it in color but its not Syncing like Vhold or H-hold needs changing but the 1084 doesnt have any VC/H-hold knobs for adjusting :/

any way to correct this ? as i hope i didnt just waste 24$.



Hmmm - the standard way to connect an A500 to an 1082 or 1084 monitor here in Germany was via a cable with a 23 pin D-SUB (http://connector.pinouts.ru/23_pin_D-SUB_male/) plug on the one end and with an EuroSCART (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART) plug on the other end.

Never heard of the '6Pin RGB cable' you mention, but maybe such cables were used e.g. in the U.S. or other exotic countries...
:biglaugh: :p
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 23, 2016, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: Dandy;816768
Never heard of the '6Pin RGB cable' you mention, but maybe such cables were used e.g. in the U.S. or other exotic countries...
:biglaugh: :p


LOL. Never even seen a SCART cable or plug on this side of the pond. Older 1084's connect via 23-to-6 pin round connectors. Newer, less crappy 1084 models connect via a 23-to-9 pin D-sub connector.  Viva la standardization! :lol:
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: UberFreak on November 23, 2016, 06:26:40 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;816772
less crappy 1084 models connect via a 23-to-9 pin D-sub connector.


These "less crappy" 1084 die like flies, I have over 10 dead units here with dead flyback.

The older 1084 (with power button at the front) are real work-horses, never had an issue and I use them daily since the 80's (one was used as a bedroom TV for ~10 years).
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 23, 2016, 06:52:54 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;816775
These "less crappy" 1084 die like flies, I have over 10 dead units here with dead flyback.

The older 1084 (with power button at the front) are real work-horses, never had an issue and I use them daily since the 80's (one was used as a bedroom TV for ~10 years).

That power button "not clicking in" seems to be a problem on many of them that I've seen.  I've seen them kludged to stick in with all manner of contraptions.

The newer ones have stereo speakers and a "more modern" style.  Also I'm a fan of the DIN connector over the round one.  I guess to each their own, but IMHO none of 'em are much better than doorstops, hence why I have Indivisions in all my Amiga's.  :roflmao:
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Dandy on November 24, 2016, 06:49:34 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;816772


LOL.
...
Newer, less crappy 1084 models connect via a 23-to-9 pin D-sub connector.  Viva la standardization!
 :lol:



Well, I even have an older model since 1989: the CBM 1081, which I altered to stereo sound myself.
Still in working condition...
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: UberFreak on November 24, 2016, 12:41:31 PM
All 1084 models suffer from crappy power-switches.
I recently bought some replacement switches but they seemed even lower quality than what C= used...

If "modern style" means power-switch at the back - no thanks, that's annoying to me :)
Never used the monitor built-in speaker, so don't really care if its mono or stereo. It sounds terrible either way!

I did try working with an LCD for the Amiga but quickly moved back to CRT, there's just no comparison in demos & games, IMO.
I'm currently using a 19" Viewsonic CRT which can handle 50Hz, picture looks great & there's zero motion-blur, which is something I noticed on all LCDs I tried.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 24, 2016, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;816807
I'm currently using a 19" Viewsonic CRT which can handle 50Hz, picture looks great & there's zero motion-blur, which is something I noticed on all LCDs I tried.

I just last night replaced my 37" TV on my A500 with a 50". You know, for games.  ;)

Always hated 50Hz. Too flickery for my eyes. Back in the mid-'90s I had an A1200 that was a European import. Every time that I turned it on I would dutifully use the early startup menu to change it from PAL to NTSC (60Hz). I was thrilled when Euro36 screenmode came out.  What was that, 73Hz, and compatible with my 1084S-D1? Winner winner, chicken dinner! :D

That's the best thing about the Amiga, no two are ever alike. We've all customized them to exactly suit our needs. Cheers! :)
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Dandy on November 25, 2016, 08:12:05 AM
Quote from: UberFreak;816807


All 1084 models suffer from crappy power-switches.
I recently bought some replacement switches but they seemed even lower quality than what C= used...

If "modern style" means power-switch at the back - no thanks, that's annoying to me :)



My A1200's monitor suffers from the same issue.
I overrode the switch and use a multiway connector with switch to switch my euqipment on or off instead.

Quote from: UberFreak;816807


Never used the monitor built-in speaker, so don't really care if its mono or stereo. It sounds terrible either way!



You are of course right regarding the sound quality.

But it was a good thing to have a stereo monitor when I visited my relatives in former East Germany back in early 1989, before the fall of the 'iron curtain'.
I took my A500 and the modified monitor with me and demonstrated the capabilities of an Amiga to all my cousins - and the stereo sound certainly was one of it's capabilities...
3 of them bought an Amiga after the fall of the wall...

Only very few East Germans had stereo equipments before the fall of the wall - most were on mono - even the discotheques.

I remember one popular discotheque in Magdeburg (Cafe Impro), where they used a 'manual lighting console' instead. That was a guy with a wooden plank and lots of pushbutton switches (connected to the different coloured lamps with lots of cables) on it, which he pushed with the beat of the music...

So I bought an assembly kit for an 'electronic 3-channel lighting console' for roughly 28 DM, put it together and donated it to my cousin, who was a DJ at the aforementioned Disco back then. That made him the first DJ with a 'electronic 3-channel lighting console' in Magdeburg...
:hammer:

Quote from: UberFreak;816807


I did try working with an LCD for the Amiga but quickly moved back to CRT, there's just no comparison in demos & games, IMO.
I'm currently using a 19" Viewsonic CRT which can handle 50Hz,



Able to handle 50Hz mains frequency or able to handle 50Hz display refresh rate?

Quote from: UberFreak;816807


picture looks great & there's zero motion-blur, which is something I noticed on all LCDs I tried.



That may depend on the phosphorous coating in the CRT. I have very well had CRT-TVs with a very high afterglow time and a lot of motion blur by that...

On computer screens I have not experienced 'motion blur', as I rarely use them for watching videos...
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: UberFreak on November 25, 2016, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: Dandy;816857
Able to handle 50Hz mains frequency or able to handle 50Hz display refresh rate?


Refresh rate, of course (I'm in PAL land so everything is 50Hz by default).
I found its quite rare for PC CRT monitors to support vertical refresh of 50Hz.
I also have a 17" MAG model which supports 50Hz, although its manual says the minimum supported is 59Hz.

What I couldn't find was a PC monitor with 15Khz horizontal refresh support, so I had to use a scan-doubler for that.

Quote from: Dandy;816857
That may depend on the phosphorous coating in the CRT. I have very well had CRT-TVs with a very high afterglow time and a lot of motion blur by that...


Never seen CRTs with high-decay phosphors, although I know they existed.
It was just a silly idea really, can't imagine it being useful for TV watching or computer use which involves lots of motion, like games.
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 25, 2016, 06:29:09 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;816871
It was just a silly idea really, can't imagine it being useful for TV watching or computer use which involves lots of motion, like games.

*cough cough* Productivity software *cough cough*

Not everyone uses their computer just for watching TV and playing games, lol.  :lol:

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=864
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Dandy on November 29, 2016, 07:07:43 AM
Quote from: UberFreak;816871


...
Never seen CRTs with high-decay phosphors, although I know they existed.
It was just a silly idea really, can't imagine it being useful for TV watching or computer use which involves lots of motion, like games.



Not sure what you mean with "high-decay phosphors" (maybe a language problem) - I was talking about the afterglow of the phosphorous coating in the CRT. I remember early color TV sets with an enormous afterglow. Best noticeable when e.g. watching the night phase of the "24h of LeMans" race, where the head lights looked like long flames because of this afterglow effect...
Title: Re: RGB not syncing on Commodore 1084 Monitor [SOLVED]
Post by: Dandy on November 29, 2016, 07:16:33 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;816877


*cough cough* Productivity software *cough cough*

Not everyone uses their computer just for watching TV and playing games, lol.  :lol:
...



1+!
:biglaugh:
That's why I never really cared for the afterglow of computer monitors...

But afterglow on a TV screen is a completely different story...