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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: RiP on November 02, 2016, 10:33:54 PM

Title: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 02, 2016, 10:33:54 PM
My Amiga 2000's mouse doesn't work on the first/right port.
Even its buttons don't work but no problem with the second/left port.
Joystick works on both ports though. Anyway to fix it? It's B2000 rev. 6
I have even swapped those two CIA chips but made no difference :(
http://phota.me/FA23.jpg
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 02, 2016, 11:02:33 PM
Did you read through everything in this thread?

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56078
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 03, 2016, 09:54:54 AM
Yes, but I have different problem.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: guest11527 on November 03, 2016, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: RiP;816000
I have even swapped those two CIA chips but made no difference :(
Unlike common believe, the CIAs are *not* responsible for the mouse pointer.

If the mouse buttons work, but the mouse does not move at all, then this looks for the A2K as if there is no +5V on the first mouse port. This voltage is needed for driving the LEDs in the mice illuminating the position sensor.

Had you checked the battery for leakage? The mouse logic is close to the RTC unit and prone to leakage after so many years.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 03, 2016, 11:54:00 AM
I said even the mouse buttons don't work but no problem with the second/left port.
Joystick works on both ports though.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: CodePoet on November 03, 2016, 12:22:58 PM
Hi,

That isn't a picture of your mainboard (it's from BBOAH) - Thomas is right, it looks like the 5v rail may be hosed.

If you have a multimeter, check between Pin 7 and Pin 8 of both of the ports and see what you get. If joysticks work perfectly on both ports, you can pretty much rule out U202 and the pull-up resistor packs

Here's a link to the schematic, the joyports are on the lower left of page 3: http://www.amigawiki.de/dnl/schematics/A2000_R6.pdf
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 03, 2016, 06:05:51 PM
5V is OK on both ports.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 03, 2016, 10:53:38 PM
Quote from: CodePoet;816024
Hi,

That isn't a picture of your mainboard (it's from BBOAH

Here's mine. I swapped those two, dunno exactly if those are CIA or not:

http://phota.me/vwjf.jpg
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: CodePoet on November 04, 2016, 06:16:03 AM
Have you tried removing and re-seating Denise (U201)? The M0V and M0H signals eventually end up on pin 38 and pin 9 of Denise respectively.

Here's a list of parts that /could/ be suspect, starting at the signal side (joystick port):

Pull-up resistor pack RP200 (bottom left)
Pull-down resistor pack RP205 (bottom left)
Feed resistor pack RP204 (bottom left)
Quad multiplexer U202 (bottom left)
Denise IC U201 (bottom middle)

It's a bit odd that both joysticks work perfectly, though. If you have an oscilloscope, you could try looking for a pulsetrain at pin 38 and pin 9 of Denise (while moving the mouse plugged into port one), and comparing it to pins 9 and 12 of U202 to check if there is a break in the signal path between both ICs
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 04, 2016, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: RiP;816046
Here's mine. I swapped those two, dunno exactly if those are CIA or not:

http://phota.me/vwjf.jpg


Gah. Get that old Varta battery out of there, asap. :(
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 04, 2016, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: CodePoet;816056
Have you tried removing and re-seating Denise (U201)? The M0V and M0H signals eventually end up on pin 38 and pin 9 of Denise respectively.

Here's a list of parts that /could/ be suspect, starting at the signal side (joystick port):

Pull-up resistor pack RP200 (bottom left)
Pull-down resistor pack RP205 (bottom left)
Feed resistor pack RP204 (bottom left)
Quad multiplexer U202 (bottom left)

Denise IC U201 (bottom middle)

It's a bit odd that both joysticks work perfectly, though. If you have an oscilloscope, you could try looking for a pulsetrain at pin 38 and pin 9 of Denise (while moving the mouse plugged into port one), and comparing it to pins 9 and 12 of U202 to check if there is a break in the signal path between both ICs

I'll try re-seating Denise but fear of de-soldering the rest.
What's the best way to re-seat those ICs?

Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;816058
Gah. Get that old Varta battery out of there, asap. :(

I know but I fear of de-soldering :(
Can I replace it with lithium battery or else?
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 04, 2016, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: RiP;816099
I know but I fear of de-soldering :(
Can I replace it with lithium battery or else?

AmigaKit and others sell coin cell conversion kits for just a few bucks, or you can make your own with commonly available bits (errr, they used to be commonly available, back when Radio Shack was still around).  But you don't have to replace it right away, just rock it back & forth a bit till it snaps out.  That'll solve at least one potential issue with your machine!  :D
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 04, 2016, 09:42:40 PM
Still fear of de-soldering lol

Found two new things that might help:
1. When I load/boot IK+ from floppy, I should press the joystick/mouse button of the left port to continue.
Pressing the joystick button of the right port won't let me to continue to play the game.
After that, I can play the game with both joysticks though.
2. The left port has stronger/sturdy pins than the right board, doesn't bend at all.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 05, 2016, 12:04:06 AM
Quote from: RiP;816103
Still fear of de-soldering lol

Considering the range of issues you're having, perhaps you should consider buying a replacement motherboard that's already been tested? Or sending yours to someone with skill working on these kinds of components (Acill on this forum comes to mind).  Otherwise you're just going to have to get your hands dirty, I'm afraid.  :lol:
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 05, 2016, 12:08:48 AM
One other quick thought - I just went back and looked at the picture you posted earlier.  It looks like you have some kind of ROM switcher installed?  Have you tried removing all expansions from the system and testing your mouse & serial port issues with everything removed?

(you should really, really clean up around that battery, and snip it out of there, btw)
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: guest11527 on November 05, 2016, 09:29:01 AM
Quote from: RiP;816099
I know but I fear of de-soldering :(
You should fear more what happens if the thing remains in. It already started to "blossom", so it's about over time to replace it and clean the board around it.

Quote from: RiP;816099
Can I replace it with lithium battery or else?
With a lithium battery and a diode that prevents charing the battery. Or remove the charging components on the board (two diodes close to the battery).
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: LuigiThirty on November 08, 2016, 04:00:05 AM
I just had this problem happen to my Amiga 2000 out of nowhere too. The mouse was working, then it wasn't. No light on my Tom+ adapter and no movement (but the buttons work) when I plug in a regular Amiga mouse. I've got a voltmeter but no probes fine enough to not short out every pin in the DB-9 connector.

I think I've got an old PC serial mouse I can use SERMOUSE with until I figure out what's wrong.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: DWV on November 08, 2016, 06:52:03 PM
Quote from: RiP;816000
My Amiga 2000's mouse doesn't work on the first/right port.
Even its buttons don't work but no problem with the second/left port.
Joystick works on both ports though. Anyway to fix it? It's B2000 rev. 6
I have even swapped those two CIA chips but made no difference :(
http://phota.me/FA23.jpg


There is nothing wrong with your motherboard, that is the way it is supposed to be.
The mouse only works on the left port while joysticks will work on either port.
The Amiga specifically looks for the mouse on the left port, if you put a game in and set it to single player, it will look for a joystick on the right port, if you set it to dual player, it will look for joysticks on both ports.
You can tell the Amiga to look for the mouse on the right port, but frankly, WHY? if it works fine on the left port...leave it there and don't worry about it.

Dave
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 08, 2016, 07:11:05 PM
Quote from: DWV;816226
The mouse only works on the left port while joysticks will work on either port.

That is incorrect.  Mice will work on either port.  Some games (Battle Squadron comes to mind) allow you to play with two mice.  Lemmings is the same - plug in two mice for two player mode.

Unless you mean in Workbench, which only works with the mouse in the first port, AFAIK (unless you use some software trickery to swap it).
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 10, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
Thanks :)
I meant in Workbench too. I'll check it in the games too later.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: LuigiThirty on November 10, 2016, 02:25:42 PM
My problem was in fact fuse F1 blowing. I've ordered a bag of them off eBay.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 10, 2016, 08:27:14 PM
Quote from: LuigiThirty;816296
My problem was in fact fuse F1 blowing. I've ordered a bag of them off eBay.


But my 5V is ok.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on November 11, 2016, 07:44:13 PM
Quote from: DWV;816226
There is nothing wrong with your motherboard, that is the way it is supposed to be.
The mouse only works on the left port while joysticks will work on either port.
The Amiga specifically looks for the mouse on the left port, if you put a game in and set it to single player, it will look for a joystick on the right port, if you set it to dual player, it will look for joysticks on both ports.
You can tell the Amiga to look for the mouse on the right port, but frankly, WHY? if it works fine on the left port...leave it there and don't worry about it.

Dave

Oh thank you very much :hammer:
Just connected mouse to the right port and it worked in the IK+ two player game.
No way to make it to work in Workbench?
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 11, 2016, 09:05:02 PM
Quote from: RiP;816345
No way to make it to work in Workbench?

Look on Aminet.  There's utilities that can swap the port.  Here's one I googled up real quick:

http://aminet.net/package/misc/fish/fish-0567
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: James1095 on December 01, 2016, 09:16:47 PM
Quote from: RiP;816103
Still fear of de-soldering lol



If going at it with a soldering iron scares you that much, you don't even have to. You can simply snip it off, or as someone else said, wiggle it repeatedly until the tabs break and it comes off. It looks like it has already started to leak so you should wipe the area with a bit of vinegar on a cloth to neutralize the alkaline electrolyte and then wipe it down again with a cloth slightly moistened with clean water.

The pads where the battery installs are quite robust and there is nothing particularly sensitive in the immediate region. Even a complete amateur stands a good chance of attaching a new battery without damaging anything.
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: RiP on December 02, 2016, 09:46:20 AM
Finally I de-soldered it and soldered some wires for later if I wanted to add new battery, probably 3.6V Ni-MH (My battery was 3V Varta though) :)
Title: Re: Mouse doesn't work on first port
Post by: James1095 on December 02, 2016, 07:45:55 PM
The original Varta battery is a 3.6V NiCd, all Nixx cells are 1.2V nominal per cell so it's not possible to get a combination that gives 3.0V.

A CR2032 lithium coin cell with a blocking diode to prevent it from being charged will work too. A Schottky diode should be used ideally because the forward drop is much lower.