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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: kirk_m on October 09, 2016, 09:21:29 PM
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I am sure to get flamed on this but, I'll say it anyway. I just checked out the US vendor's site that was posted earlier today. Is it just me, or, is anyone else just not overly impressed with the specs for the machine? USB 2.0? The whole thing seems to be a decade or more behind PC and Mac hardware specs and it costs twice as much. What would anyone buying one of these actually use it for other than just a hobby perspective? Pleas enlighten me, because I can't really see the point.
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i think you have answered your question yourself: it simply is a machine for ppc hobbyists.
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i think you have answered your question yourself: it simply is a machine for ppc hobbyists.
Frankly, I'm not sure what you think the last decade has brought us in terms of technology, as I can update a decade old PC to run current operating systems and software with no problem.
My G5 PowerMac has PCIe slots and runs a fairly current version of Linux.
I can use it relatively interchangeably with the i7 laptop I am typing on right now.
So what are we missing?
DDR4, USB 3.0, Intel cpus?
Go play with your PCs and pretend you have something superior.
I've been using computers since the '70's and I'm SO tired of this kind of bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.
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Well they trying to keep price down, it's small production run.
The hardware is for AmigaOS4.x,
if you want to run Linux or Windows you can buy a normal PC, this not for you.
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Well they trying to keep price down, it's small production run.
The hardware is for AmigaOS4.x,
if you want to run Linux or Windows you can buy a normal PC, this not for you.
Well said sir!
Its an apples and oranges situation.
PC hardware is a cheap commodity.
This stuff isn't badly priced for a small run of specialized boards.
I'm completely happy with it.
And I'm sure we can adopt things like USB3.0 (which is available via PCIe plug in cards) once the software to support it is developed.
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Frankly, I'm not sure what you think the last decade has brought us in terms of technology, as I can update a decade old PC to run current operating systems and software with no problem.
My G5 PowerMac has PCIe slots and runs a fairly current version of Linux.
I can use it relatively interchangeably with the i7 laptop I am typing on right now.
So what are we missing?
DDR4, USB 3.0, Intel cpus?
Go play with your PCs and pretend you have something superior.
I've been using computers since the '70's and I'm SO tired of this kind of bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.
another time, you have answered your own question in advance i guess, plus others will correct you. it rather justifies my kallikles like position here.
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another time, you have answered your own question in advance i guess, plus others will correct you. it rather justifies my kallikles like position here.
"you have answered your own question in advance i guess"
Curious reference to Kallikeles there, but I'll leave sophistry out of this.
Your 'guess' is way off, that list was sarcasm.
I'll leave it to other to follow the continuous regime of updating hardware that brings no significant improvement to the table.
I can't think of anything in the software world that requires the over the top power that todays best hardware has.
And I'm certainly not going to upgrade in order to play DX11 or 12 games (then again, I'm frankly not much of a gamer - its kind of a silly activity for an adult).
So, again, the question IS, what in the last ten years has been introduced that requires an upgrade to gain productivity?
Sure, legacy Amiga hardware is obsolete, even if it has its retro appeal.
But anything produced in the last ten years will run software that has adequate utility for the real world.
So short of playing 'mine's bigger than yours' in some weird ego contest, what does following your logic offer me?
I have PCs.
And I'm no longer stupid enough to pay for the absolute best, most current, or top of the line hardware.
And I have my alternative equipment, where the main problem is software availability, the hardware is entirely adequate.
This is the same problem we had in the '80s and '90s (and it ain't changing).
So if you want to point out the fallacy of trying to justify the use of NG systems, you ought to be attacking us on the software front, because the hardware is fine.
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yawn.. whether the world answeres or not. if you dont need the current technology, 64bit, 32bit , 16bit or 8 bit or no computer at all, including no utilities and games at all, even if not the recent ones, be my guest. simply dont advertise it as all of above.
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& kirk_m
it's very simple, I want to run AmigaOS natively on new hardware. I'm here for AmigaOS news only! I already have Windows and Linux boxes and emulation doesn't interest me.
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yawn.. whether the world answeres or not. if you dont need the current technology, 64bit, 32bit , 16bit or 8 bit or no computer at all, including no utilities and games at all, even if not the recent ones, be my guest. simply dont advertise it as all of above.
I don't think you've noticed it, but sometimes your posts are nearly indecipherable.
I have been using computers since 8 bit systems were the norm, I worked for a company that built 16/32 bit 68K systems, and I'm using modern hardware.
And btw, I had 64 bit AMD based hardware, when the majority of PC buyers were still dumb enough to be considering Intel crap like 32bit Pentium 4s systems.
I just don't see the point in continuing to march along pretending that the last ten years have really continued to prove Moore's law when I fact all they've really proven is that manufacturers need continued sales .
Honestly, has Windows improved since Win7 (which is really just a polished NT derivative)? Win8, horrible. Win8.1, only VERY slightly less. Win10, makes me wish I was using Win7.
And 8 or more core cpus, ridiculous. Software still doesn't make use of more than two to three at best and single user OS' are still really bad at threading processes to do much better.
And software. Office productivity apps, browsers, utilities...what real improvements do you see in these? Because frankly, the improvements seem incredibly minimal to me. In fact, sometime learning to adjust to the changes in their interfaces is a far bigger PITA than is justified by those minor improvements.
So, like I said, you want to pretend that I need to follow your lead, you go right ahead, but don't look back behind you, because I have a mind of my own and its served me well in the choices I've made so far, so I won't be there.
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I don't think you've noticed it, but sometimes your posts are nearly indecipherable.
I have been using computer since 8 bit systems were the norm, I worked for a company that built 16/32 bit 68K systems, and I'm using modern hardware.
And btw, I had 64 bit AMD based hardware, when the majority of PC buyers were still dumb enough to be considering Intel crap like 32bit Pentium 4s systems.
I just don't see the point in continuing to march along pretending that the last ten years have really continued to prove Moore's law when I fact all they've really proven is that manufacturers need continued sales .
Honestly, has Windows improved since Win7 (which is really just a polished NT derivative)? Win8, horrible. Win8.1, only VERY slightly less. Win10, makes me wish I was using Win7.
And 8 or more core cpus, ridiculous. Software still doesn't make use of more than two to three at best and single user OS' are still really bad at threading processes to do much better.
And software. Office productivity apps, browsers, utilities...what real improvements do you see in these? Because frankly, the improvements seem incredibly minimal to me. In fact, sometime learning to adjust to the changes in their interfaces is a far bigger PITA than is justified by those minor improvements.
So, like I said, you want to pretend that I need to follow your lead, you go right ahead, but don't look back behind you, because I have a mind of my own and its served me well in the choices I've made so far, so I won't be there.
I thought many cores was good for multitasking when using many apps at the same time. So the system doesnt get clogged.
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I thought many cores was good for multitasking when using many apps at the same time. So the system doesnt get clogged.
Up to a point, but in most situations they sit unused.
I am breaking up the components of a dual quad core Xeon system right now for sale on eBay.
While it was in use, if you observed the cpu metering software, the majority of time only two cores saw significant loads.
Software under single user OS' just is not threaded well enough.
With the number of modules typically running, Windows and OSX should do a much better job of this, but the simple fact is they don't.
This situation has been gradually improving, but right now the real performance gains of going above a four core cpu are fairly minimal.
As to other 'developments' in the personal computing world...
Well Apple is still developing its version of NextStep, OSX, while Microsoft continue to pass off OS' based on further polishing on the NT kernel.
Nothing really significant has happened in cpus since AMD created the X64 instruction set, except that Intel got its act together.
And we're all still in the same camps we we've been in for the last ten years.
Progress...yeah right.
So I should continue to regularly replace perfectly useful hardware and software why?
So I can keep up with some pompous braggart who's using thousands of dollars of hardware to play Crysis while living in his parents basement?
I think not.
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Up to a point, but in most situations they sit unused........
......
Software under single user OS' just is not threaded well enough.
With the number of modules typically running, Windows and OSX should do a much better job of this, but the simple fact is they don't.
.......
Obviously not doing any video encoding. And a fact is always simple if you just make it up.
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Obviously not doing any video encoding. And a fact is always simple if you just make it up.
Most of the time, no, I'm not and neither are the vast majority of users.
Occasionally I will re-encode something so that it will run better on my cell phone.
And even then, the delay time between high end hardware and lower end hardware hardly justifies spending several times more for hardware that will not remain top of the line for long.
I'm sorry if my facts don't jive with your perceptions, but I've been using computers since the mid-70s and most user don't use them for the crap you want to tout.
We use word processors, web browsers, spread sheets and other software that has broad utility and frankly was fairly well developed ten or MORE years ago.
You want to pretend you spend all day re-encoding video?
By all means, do so, but don't expect me to believe you.
And don't try to pass that BS of on my friends or customers, because they don't need what you're selling.
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Software under single user OS' just is not threaded well enough.
What has a "single user OS" to do with threading Programs? It's up to the programmer to enable multithreading of an application. For example on Windows I used
HANDLE WINAPI CreateThread( lpThreadAttributes, dwStackSize, lpStartAddress, lpParameter, dwCreationFlags, lpThreadId)
more than a decade ago already. And windows balances the threads quite well.
If the developers don't slice their apps into threads, the OS cannot do much about that.
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What has a "single user OS" to do with threading Programs? It's up to the programmer to enable multithreading of an application. For example on Windows I used
HANDLE WINAPI CreateThread( lpThreadAttributes, dwStackSize, lpStartAddress, lpParameter, dwCreationFlags, lpThreadId)
more than a decade ago already. And windows balances the threads quite well.
If the developers don't slice their apps into threads, the OS cannot do much about that.
Actually, Window doesn't do that great when it comes to distributing loads, although you are right about programmers not creating code with enough modularity.
Back when I was still developing code, systems had far less resources, and I started on 8 bit systems, so I've always had a tendency to try to break down things to small modules that could be loaded and unloaded.
The availability of increased resources has made programmers somewhat lazy.
Edit - btw "...more than a decade ago" ;) ahem...kind of my point.
Oh, and threading? Its was always necessary for multi-user systems to have good support for this. Windows and MacOS users have been conditioned to accept little animated icons that indicate they need to sit there twiddling their thumbs.
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Hi Kirk,
I'm a potential AmigaOne X5000 customer. I can use this computer for work, as it not only has support for AmigaOS 4, but also Linux. If a task should appear that is not possible in OS 4, I can switch to Linux.
Why would I want to use an X5000 for work?
Because I love using Amiga systems and it is a BIG bonus to be able to combine this passion with work!
Many people feel more creative in an Amiga computer environment, one gets the urge to make something. That is the case for me at least. :)
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If the developers don't slice their apps into threads, the OS cannot do much about that.
https://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/ ;)
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Computing has become boring in the PC world. yes we have usb3 and fast processors but nothing really exciting is happening. This is why I keep an eye on Amiga as it always felt fun using Amiga and Amigaos. Windows just gets on my tits with it constant updates and spyware and adaware. Cant wait for Tabor A1222 so I can get back to using a person computer again not a computer that is restricting its user by the OS and aynoying BIOS security.
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Computing has become boring in the PC world. yes we have usb3 and fast processors but nothing really exciting is happening. This is why I keep an eye on Amiga as it always felt fun using Amiga and Amigaos. Windows just gets on my tits with it constant updates and spyware and adaware. Cant wait for Tabor A1222 so I can get back to using a person computer again not a computer that is restricting its user by the OS and aynoying BIOS security.
Thanks, that why I always had a problem with MacOS, I got tired of being stuffed into a box and forced to do things exactly the same way as everyone else.
It will be fun to have these new machines.
Personally I can't decide whether to wait for a four core X5000, or just purchase the model that was made available on Sunday.
I'm particularly glad to see someone else here use the term 'boring', because I get that.
That is what mainstream computing has become, boring.
Anymore I'm having trouble telling what I'm on, because all OS' tend to operate via the same conventions.
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I am sure to get flamed on this but, I'll say it anyway. I just checked out the US vendor's site that was posted earlier today. Is it just me, or, is anyone else just not overly impressed with the specs for the machine? USB 2.0? The whole thing seems to be a decade or more behind PC and Mac hardware specs and it costs twice as much. What would anyone buying one of these actually use it for other than just a hobby perspective? Pleas enlighten me, because I can't really see the point.
USB 2 is built into the P5020 and there doesn't appear to be any USB3 Amiga OS4 driver despite being announced years ago.
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=5637&order=
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USB 2 is built into the P5020 and there doesn't appear to be any USB3 Amiga OS4 driver despite being announced years ago.
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=5637&order=
Currently, even USB 2.0 support under OS4 and MorphOS is far from perfect.
USB3.0 support would require a dedicated developer and I don't see anyone stepping up to address this.
But then, USB3 support isn't that important to me.
I have it on one PC I have at home, and I don't use it.
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I've got to play with the X5000 quite a bit and its a nice machine. I would recommend you get a copy of 4.1 for classic and use it on a PC under WinUAE for a bit and see how you like it. If you do it runs much better on the real thing, but it will give you a base to decide. For me I prefer MorphOS and Linux on my G5 machine and 3.9/4.1 on my 4000T.
An added bonus is the RAM restriction with BigRAM+ and ZorRAM is being lifted in the next release due any time. This will allow the BPPC and CSPPC versions to address more than just the RAM on the CPU cards. It will also do this for the WinUAE installs as a bonus.
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For me the X5000 price is pretty good. You should see the machine in person its a really nice system. Its the software that needs work and its happening. You will have a computer that will run Morphs , Os4 , and modern Linux kernels with high end hardware. Supporting things like USB3 and Bluetooth are almost impossible due to finance and size of development teams. USB2 support is fine for Amiga NG.
One thing I want to mention: Anyone can have a super duper i90 mega core whatever but very few people have an X5000. I can assure you if you have this box and ANYONE in the tech sector comes to your place and sees it they would be impressed.
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I also checked out the X5000 at Amiwest and it's a pretty decent system. Still priced a little too rich for my tastes based on it's specs but I take my hat off to A-EON for getting these machines produced and long may that continue.
I agree that it is the software that needs work and glad to hear that is underway. Will make it feel less like a hobby machine and more like a viable everyday solution (to me at least). Once the OS catches up a bit I will consider it a viable purchase.
I may get flamed for this but I would love to see either AmigaOS or MorphOS make it onto an ARM platform. With the millions of Raspberry Pi users, that kind of exposure would bring more attention to the Amiga scene. I mean even RiscOS is making a comeback thanks to the Pi. That could only be a good thing, right?
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I also checked out the X5000 at Amiwest and it's a pretty decent system. Still priced a little too rich for my tastes based on it's specs but I take my hat off to A-EON for getting these machines produced and long may that continue.
I agree that it is the software that needs work and glad to hear that is underway. Will make it feel less like a hobby machine and more like a viable everyday solution (to me at least). Once the OS catches up a bit I will consider it a viable purchase.
I may get flamed for this but I would love to see either AmigaOS or MorphOS make it onto an ARM platform. With the millions of Raspberry Pi users, that kind of exposure would bring more attention to the Amiga scene. I mean even RiscOS is making a comeback thanks to the Pi. That could only be a good thing, right?
No reason for you to be flamed for that, before the move to X64 was announced for MorphOS I frequently stated my preference for ARM.
I just like the idea of a more open processor.
Now that Power8 has been opened up to licensees, I'm all for sticking with Power platforms.
But...when an X64 port is complete, I'll be there too. ;)
Although I am tired of Intel.
AND, I don't think people realize that X64 cannot be covered in totality, so only selected targets will be supported.
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Thanks for all the replies. I agree, computing is boring to me now. I got my first machine in 1982, a C64. Then an Amiga 500, then a PC when Commodore went into its death spiral. I always bought AMD over Intel. Finally, I wound up with my first Mac 8 years ago, and this was the first intel based system I owned. I stopped playing games on the PC 16 years ago. Just not my thing any more, and I can't even force myself to play console systems with my kids. The MacOS was the closest thing (besides Linux, which I always chose over Windows when I could) to my time spent on the Amiga. I'm in a much different place nowadays, and, priorities have changed with regards to computing (everything to me is strictly utilitarian, versus all fun and games during the 64/Amiga/Early PC era), so, I can see the attraction to this new machine for one who is strictly utilitarian. I might try one out eventually, but, I can't see how doing the same exact utilitarian tasks on this new system as what I do on my other systems could possibly re-invigorate the kind of interest I had in computers 30+ years ago.
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Thanks for all the replies. I agree, computing is boring to me now. I got my first machine in 1982, a C64. Then an Amiga 500, then a PC when Commodore went into its death spiral. I always bought AMD over Intel. Finally, I wound up with my first Mac 8 years ago, and this was the first intel based system I owned. I stopped playing games on the PC 16 years ago. Just not my thing any more, and I can't even force myself to play console systems with my kids. The MacOS was the closest thing (besides Linux, which I always chose over Windows when I could) to my time spent on the Amiga. I'm in a much different place nowadays, and, priorities have changed with regards to computing (everything to me is strictly utilitarian, versus all fun and games during the 64/Amiga/Early PC era), so, I can see the attraction to this new machine for one who is strictly utilitarian. I might try one out eventually, but, I can't see how doing the same exact utilitarian tasks on this new system as what I do on my other systems could possibly re-invigorate the kind of interest I had in computers 30+ years ago.
Agree 100%, and there's no going back. Computing for computing's sake is a hobby. Doing that on PC or Mac has little appeal. Productivity(as it was called back when) and utility is a good word for it, is what these platforms provide at performance and production levels an Amiga from the past or even now could never achieve. Elegance was at play back then not raw power and throughput. I'd love to have an x1000/5000, I just can't think what I'd use it for.
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That's true. That's why I have paid thousands accumulating hardware such as 8core i7s, multicore Xeons, etc; you name it I got it. It's my money after all. And that's why I am ditching it all, because I never really enjoyed it. Maybe just keep a single x86 MacBook, then move/stay with ARM for media consumption, PowerPC for development and number crunching, and classic Amigas for gaming. And I know this time I am gonna be satisfied; it's not like I am doing something "stupid", like collecting vinyl records and old turntables or old cars (less stupid though than collecting hardware you don't really like or use, anyway).
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For me the X5000 price is pretty good. You should see the machine in person its a really nice system. Its the software that needs work and its happening. You will have a computer that will run Morphs , Os4 , and modern Linux kernels with high end hardware. Supporting things like USB3 and Bluetooth are almost impossible due to finance and size of development teams. USB2 support is fine for Amiga NG.
One thing I want to mention: Anyone can have a super duper i90 mega core whatever but very few people have an X5000. I can assure you if you have this box and ANYONE in the tech sector comes to your place and sees it they would be impressed.
When you say "An added bonus is the RAM restriction with BigRAM+ and ZorRAM is being lifted in the next release due any time. This will allow the BPPC and CSPPC versions to address more than just the RAM on the CPU cards. It will also do this for the WinUAE installs as a bonus."
Does that mean WinUae will allow more ram? where did you hear this? and when is this version that allows more ram meant to come out?
Thanks :)
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For me the X5000 price is pretty good. You should see the machine in person its a really nice system. Its the software that needs work and its happening. You will have a computer that will run Morphs , Os4 , and modern Linux kernels with high end hardware. Supporting things like USB3 and Bluetooth are almost impossible due to finance and size of development teams. USB2 support is fine for Amiga NG.
One thing I want to mention: Anyone can have a super duper i90 mega core whatever but very few people have an X5000. I can assure you if you have this box and ANYONE in the tech sector comes to your place and sees it they would be impressed.
Impressed? Why?
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Impressed? Why?
For me, its the persistence needed to see the project through with such a small market and limited resources.
Especially when faced with naysayers like yourself.
Then there's the fact that its actually powerful enough to run real software, while being based on an ISA that is no longer commonly seen in desktops.
Go ahead and crap on the idea if you want, but impressed is EXACTLY the word I'd use.
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Impressed? Why?
If industry professionals come to my house for parties and are impressed with my peg2 they will be really impressed with x5000 its EXOTIC COMPUTING
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If industry professionals come to my house for parties and are impressed with my peg2 they will be really impressed with x5000 its EXOTIC COMPUTING
I hope you're being sarcastic because no real industry professional is going to be impressed by the current state of Amiga computing unless they're named Rip Van Winkle and just awoke from a 15 year long nap.
Oops...my bad...you ARE being sarcastic! LOL!
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I hope you're being sarcastic because no real industry professional is going to be impressed by the current state of Amiga computing unless they're named Rip Van Winkle and just awoke from a 15 year long nap.
Oops...my bad...you ARE being sarcastic! LOL!
Well, some one is anyway.
But you're not very good at it.
Actually, I have a friend the I've known since the '80s that owns a firm that makes medical monitoring equipment (first place I saw wave soldering).
He'd be pretty impressed if I told him the low volume the hardware was being produced in, and showed him the overall quality of the work.
But then, he is a professional.
Ah heck, we've had this argument before, and your still a dork.
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Well, some one is anyway.
But you're not very good at it.
Actually, I have a friend the I've known since the '80s that owns a firm that makes medical monitoring equipment (first place I saw wave soldering).
He'd be pretty impressed if I told him the low volume the hardware was being produced in, and showed him the overall quality of the work.
But then, he is a professional.
Ah heck, we've had this argument before, and your still a dork.
Nice to see that you're still in such fine form and unable to engage in any real dialog. It's sad that you aren't intelligent enough to engage in anything other than name calling and flaunting your connections to "professionals". And even more pitiful that you and your "professional" friend are still living in the 80's and believing that anything Amiga related is something to be impressed about. You also need to brush up on your grammar and spelling. Have you not yet figured out that there's a huge difference between the words your and you're? They invented spell-checkers and grammar checkers back in the 80's. You should learn to use them. You might even be impressed by them since they're so high-tech by your 1980's standards. The days of being impressed by anything Amiga passed away back in the late 80's but you and your "professional" friend apparently didn't get the memo. Oh, but that's right, email didn't come along until after the 80's so I can see why you didn't get the message.
I'm not impressed one bit by low-volume hardware projects. They're nothing new and these days, with this new-fangled thing called the internet, I can upload my own multi-layer PCB designs and have them fabricated, produced, and shipped to me in a matter of days. There are quite a few companies that do this routinely.
Here's one: http://www.4pcb.com/
and another: http://www.custompcb.com/
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Nice to see that you're still in such fine form and unable to engage in any real dialog. It's sad that you aren't intelligent enough to engage in anything other than name calling. And even more pitiful that you and your "professional" friends are still living in the 80's and believing that anything Amiga related is something to be impressed about. You also need to brush up on your grammar and spelling. Have you not yet figured out that there's a huge difference between "your" and "you're". They invented spell-checkers back in the 80's. You should learn to use one. You might even be impressed by it since it's so high-tech by 1980's standards.
BTW, this thread is about the x5000!
FYI, I was at AmiWest in a room filled with people from Intel, Microsoft and other companies. SACC has several members from Intel. They were impressed with the x5000 for various reasons.
My reason is that for the first time in years, I have a brand new Amiga!
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But it's the same old song and dance. I was told I'd be impressed by my PegII, then by the X1000 and now by the X5000. Performance wise these systems were all years behind off-the-shelf solutions that were available at the time and cost 2 to 3 times more as well.
Yes, it IS nice to have more hardware but to call it impressive from a performance perspective is more than just a stretch.....the cost is impressive certainly though.
But I will say that I am impressed with Trevor's tenacity and hard work. Now if he could just get Hyperion to fulfill all the things we've been promised over the years for OS4 like multi-core support, etc.....
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But it's the same old song and dance. I was told I'd be impressed by my PegII, then by the X1000 and now by the X5000. Performance wise these systems were all years behind off-the-shelf solutions that were available at the time and cost 2 to 3 times more as well.
Do enlighten us, how is it years behind? Sure it does not have USB3, but not much hardware really use it.
One question, not only adressed at you, but all the naysayers, who constantly tells us how far behind amiga is and how ancient it is, why are you here?
A-EON wons this site and other amiga sites, A-EON is mainly NG hardware. I am just puzzled why some one would spend so much time being negative.
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Do enlighten us, how is it years behind? Sure it does not have USB3, but not much hardware really use it.
One question, not only adressed at you, but all the naysayers, who constantly tells us how far behind amiga is and how ancient it is, why are you here?
A-EON wons this site and other amiga sites, A-EON is mainly NG hardware. I am just puzzled why some one would spend so much time being negative.
Being a cheerleader for Hyperion isn't going to get you a better OS4. How many years ago did they promise to deliver multi-processor support and stable USB? I think I've been hearing that since 2004. Hans has made great strides in the 3D graphics department but the Amiga is still years behind other operating systems in graphics and the areas I mentioned. If you settle for mediocrity, then that's what you'll end up with. What's wrong with demanding a better product and calling someone out for broken or unfulfilled promises?
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Being a cheerleader for Hyperion isn't going to get you a better OS4.
Neither is the opposite
How many years ago did they promise to deliver multi-processor support and stable USB? I think I've been hearing that since 2004.
Sure but it was not relevant before the X1000, besides the guys behind it are not counted by the hundred.
Hans has made great strides in the 3D graphics department but the Amiga is still years behind other operating systems in graphics and the areas I mentioned.
If you settle for mediocrity, then that's what you'll end up with.
Yes that is why you have windows and mac. If all you do is stick to mainstream, then what you end up with is nothing special.
What's wrong with demanding a better product and calling someone out for broken or unfulfilled promises?
Uhhmm they stop producing products.
But all of the above is software, what I was asking about, and what was written about, was the hardware.
And again I ask you, why are you even here? If all you want to do is complain, then take it some where else.
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Neither is the opposite
Sure but it was not relevant before the X1000, besides the guys behind it are not counted by the hundred.
Yes that is why you have windows and mac. If all you do is stick to mainstream, then what you end up with is nothing special.
Uhhmm they stop producing products.
But all of the above is software, what I was asking about, and what was written about, was the hardware.
And again I ask you, why are you even here? If all you want to do is complain, then take it some where else.
You're living on another planet if you think NG Amiga's can hold a candle to off-the-shelf systems available today in either hardware performance or software. The only thing keeping NG Amiga production alive today is a small core of die-hard users who are willing to pay the high prices for the next PPC motherboard that gets whipped up, not because there's a commercial demand of any significance. The NG Amigas and classic Amigas will remain a high-priced hobby and a curiosity to most people and that isn't about to change. If either of these systems could compete in the market place, they would be doing so right now. I complain because I'm tired of cheerleaders like you who want me to believe that NG Amiga's are such a fantastic piece of high tech. They are not. They are an over-priced hobby project, which is just fine as far a hobbies go and if that's how you want to spend your money. But to suggest that NG Amigas are technologically superior to what I can buy right now at a Best-Buy or other outlet is ludicrous.
Keep being the cheerleader and I will check back in another 12 years and see if that promise of multi-processor support was fulfilled. I doubt it. You're happy with mediocrity and you're willing to pay a premium for it and that's fine, but it isn't for everyone.
I won't be going away any time soon though. I know that disappoints you, but telling me to "take it somewhere else" just makes you look childish. You don't have to read what I write or even agree with it. I know that might seem strange to you but that's how adults handle such things. There's also an option in your account settings to just ignore anything that I post.....makes it easy for you.
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You're living on another planet if you think NG Amiga's can hold a candle to off-the-shelf systems available today in either hardware performance or software.
But what is missing? you still havent answered.
If either of these systems could compete in the market place, they would be doing so right now. I complain because I'm tired of cheerleaders like you who want me to believe that NG Amiga's are such a fantastic piece of high tech. They are not.
But then again, if you are tired of amiga NG talks on an amiga site, then why are you here?
Keep being the cheerleader and I will check back in another 12 years and see if that promise of multi-processor support was fulfilled.
I will hold you to that promis, but does that mean, we wont see you before those 12 years?
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This will allow the BPPC and CSPPC versions to address more than just the RAM on the CPU cards.
It will also do this for the WinUAE installs as a bonus.
Do you have a source for this information?
While I would appreciate the lifting of the memory limit within WinUAE, I can't believe it is true. In the past Hyperion always was against it. And A-EON could fear it was bad for their business.
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But what is missing? you still havent answered.
But then again, if you are tired of amiga NG talks on an amiga site, then why are you here?
I will hold you to that promis, but does that mean, we wont see you before those 12 years?
+3! :hammer:
Like hard work to create the limited runs of this stuff should be discounted because it can't compete with mass marketed commodity crap.
Honestly, I wish this guy would go back to using his Windows box, leave us alone, and STFU.
"I can upload my own multi-layer PCB designs and have them fabricated, produced, and shipped to me in a matter of days. There are quite a few companies that do this routinely."
Gee Mr. Wizard, I've been doing that since the days when it was actually difficult to source a board manufacturer.
Glad to see you think its a accomplishment these days.
Now try to design a multi-layer board that has components that operate at high speed and have it function correctly when built.
Your dismissive attitude show you don't know the challenges involved there.
And as far as my intellect goes, at this point, with over 200 college credits and multiple degrees, I don't really care what YOUR judgement is, because you're a dork.
We don't need sophisticated verbiage for that assessment.
Your going to be negative without addressing the holes in your argument so...
... that is why you have windows and mac. If all you do is stick to mainstream, then what you end up with is nothing special.
And again I ask you, why are you even here? If all you want to do is complain, then take it some where else.
Good summary of this part of the discussion.
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For me, its the persistence needed to see the project through with such a small market and limited resources.
Especially when faced with naysayers like yourself.
Then there's the fact that its actually powerful enough to run real software, while being based on an ISA that is no longer commonly seen in desktops.
Go ahead and crap on the idea if you want, but impressed is EXACTLY the word I'd use.
thank you sir :)
instead naysayer you could say "normal people" because everyone out there will ask "why on earth have you spend so much money on the device". If you do not believe me try it out in real world. In the world there are billions of "naysayers".
BTW you have already ordered your X5000? For some reasons lots of people are praising hardware they do not use themselves
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If industry professionals come to my house for parties and are impressed with my peg2 they will be really impressed with x5000 its EXOTIC COMPUTING
if you would buy a oldtimer you would propably have the same effect. It is "what is that?" effect but that is soon over. People will go home but would never buy such a device themselves.
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But what is missing? you still havent answered.
But then again, if you are tired of amiga NG talks on an amiga site, then why are you here?
I will hold you to that promis, but does that mean, we wont see you before those 12 years?
amiga.org is a AmigaOS 4.X forum recently? Trevor claimed different...
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thank you sir :)
instead naysayer you could say "normal people" because everyone out there will ask "why on earth have you spend so much money on the device". If you do not believe me try it out in real world. In the world there are billions of "naysayers".
BTW you have already ordered your X5000? For some reasons lots of people are praising hardware they do not use themselves
I discussed it with the owner of AmigaOnTheLake the first night the system was listed as available, but I may wait until the P5040 version is available.
Then again, I may not as I have the funds saved for it already (and I'm itching to have one).
Either way, yes, I'm buying one.
And from that vendor.
If you advocate the development, but don't support it, well that won't help the manufacturer.
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It’s obvious that there are two entrenched points of view in this thread. I don’t think either are wrong as it’s all about personal perspective and the place the system has in your life.
My take on this is as follows. We all love the Amiga (hopefully) but the fact of the matter is that the original hardware is getting older and older and we have pretty much wrung everything out of it that is technically possible. Commodore is gone and we have no other companies of that size producing new machines. So unless we just want to be a nostalgic bunch standing over our old classic machines as they slowly die and remembering the glory days then there needs to be something new to pour our energies into. This is where the NG machines and the new OS come in.
Are they behind the PC/Mac Platforms of today? Sure. Are they priced too high based on their actual specs? Possibly. Is the OS still a work in progress? I’d say yes but then isn’t any OS? OSX and Windows have regular updates after all. The only reason OS4 doesn’t is probably down to resources. As for the pricing, well A-EON has to pay the production costs and have some financial reward for all their hard work. Love of the platform can only get you so far.
I personally see the X5000 as a hobby machine as it stands. It could never replace my PC or Mac in its current state but I still think it’s pretty cool. Some people spend a fortune on their hobbies so if I had the disposable income I would probably get one and not regret it since it is fun to play around with and try to get things working.
I currently cannot take it seriously as a replacement for my every day machine though. But then that’s because I need access to Windows for gaming and Office for work. It would be too underpowered for my video/music network steaming needs. I also need Logic Studio so it couldn’t replace my Mac either. I can’t watch Bluray movies or probably use Netflix on it. Yes I could run Linux on it but then I can run Linux on my laptop and that would run it faster. So for me, it’s a luxury item. However that’s just me. Other people have different computing needs and for them, this machine will do everything they need and more power to them.
At the end of the day let’s salute the hard work and determination of everyone behind the hardware and software of the NG platform. It may not be everything to everyone but it’s certainly better than nothing. It’s also entirely possible that in 12 months time I may be posting from the perspective of an X5000 user :) .
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Of course im not being sarcastic, im a producer in hollywood how about you? You think im just making things up? im speaking from experience. one of my old customers still uses amigas and he is a senior project manager at Sony 3d labs for example.
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Of course im not being sarcastic, im a producer in hollywood how about you? You think im just making things up? im speaking from experience. one of my old customers still uses amigas and he is a senior project manager at Sony 3d labs for example.
Hey @magnetic what does he(ur old customer) use the Amiga's for?
@arnuph1s : Agree with your overall point, but; there are way more then 2 points of view. :)Entrenched or not. Subjective judgement, abuse and bullying, some logical reasoning, plus passion. Viva la difference I say.
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Being a cheerleader for Hyperion isn't going to get you a better OS4. How many years ago did they promise to deliver multi-processor support and stable USB? I think I've been hearing that since 2004. Hans has made great strides in the 3D graphics department but the Amiga is still years behind other operating systems in graphics and the areas I mentioned. If you settle for mediocrity, then that's what you'll end up with. What's wrong with demanding a better product and calling someone out for broken or unfulfilled promises?
Being enthusiastic and enjoying what you've got isn't the same as settling for mediocrity. I met people at AmiWest who were both enthusiastic about my work (i.e., Warp3D Nova) and asked about possible improvements to the graphics drivers. Talking with people who are enthusiastic and appreciative of your work is very motivating.
It's also possible to be impressed with what someone has created even if it can't match the latest state of the art in either price or performance. The Vampire FPGA accelerator can't compete with the latest x64/ARM devices, but seeing it in action was impressive. Sam's A500 (+Vampire) was definitely the fastest A500 I've ever seen.
Hans
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And for that matter we're not as entrenched as we used to be.
I'm completely impressed with Hans' work, I occasionally exchange messages with Mark "Bigfoot" Olsen - one of the MorphOS developers who among other things works on video drivers, and I intend to buy an X5000 which supports BOTH OS4 and MorphOS.
Currently we are seeing a nice group of developments become available in multiple areas of our community.
Not bad for a 'dead', 'obsolete', 'hobbyist' system.
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...and I intend to buy an X5000 which supports BOTH OS4 and MorphOS.
Currently we are seeing a nice group of developments become available in multiple areas of our community.
Not bad for a 'dead', 'obsolete', 'hobbyist' system.
I'm right there with you Iggy. I hope to have my X5000 system in the next couple of weeks. It is a hobby for me and I am looking forward to finally getting some new hardware for AOS 4/Mophos(hopefully) and Linux - it's going to be a blast.
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.....
Not bad for a 'dead', 'obsolete', 'hobbyist' system.
Glad to see Iggy, Agree 100%. Pretty good in fact.
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Do you have a source for this information?
While I would appreciate the lifting of the memory limit within WinUAE, I can't believe it is true. In the past Hyperion always was against it. And A-EON could fear it was bad for their business.
In this case its very Good for Aeon.. stay tuned my friend. I got it from the "horses mouth" as it were at amiwest. Now that the X5000 project is finally off the ground look for exciting things to follow.
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It’s obvious that there are two entrenched points of view in this thread. I don’t think either are wrong as it’s all about personal perspective and the place the system has in your life.
My take on this is as follows. We all love the Amiga (hopefully) but the fact of the matter is that the original hardware is getting older and older and we have pretty much wrung everything out of it that is technically possible. Commodore is gone and we have no other companies of that size producing new machines. So unless we just want to be a nostalgic bunch standing over our old classic machines as they slowly die and remembering the glory days then there needs to be something new to pour our energies into. This is where the NG machines and the new OS come in.
Are they behind the PC/Mac Platforms of today? Sure. Are they priced too high based on their actual specs? Possibly. Is the OS still a work in progress? I’d say yes but then isn’t any OS? OSX and Windows have regular updates after all. The only reason OS4 doesn’t is probably down to resources. As for the pricing, well A-EON has to pay the production costs and have some financial reward for all their hard work. Love of the platform can only get you so far.
I personally see the X5000 as a hobby machine as it stands. It could never replace my PC or Mac in its current state but I still think it’s pretty cool. Some people spend a fortune on their hobbies so if I had the disposable income I would probably get one and not regret it since it is fun to play around with and try to get things working.
I currently cannot take it seriously as a replacement for my every day machine though. But then that’s because I need access to Windows for gaming and Office for work. It would be too underpowered for my video/music network steaming needs. I also need Logic Studio so it couldn’t replace my Mac either. I can’t watch Bluray movies or probably use Netflix on it. Yes I could run Linux on it but then I can run Linux on my laptop and that would run it faster. So for me, it’s a luxury item. However that’s just me. Other people have different computing needs and for them, this machine will do everything they need and more power to them.
At the end of the day let’s salute the hard work and determination of everyone behind the hardware and software of the NG platform. It may not be everything to everyone but it’s certainly better than nothing. It’s also entirely possible that in 12 months time I may be posting from the perspective of an X5000 user :) .
I agree. These are hobbyist/enthusiast machines and will likely never be anything more. If the companies involved play their cards right, the market (and usefulness) could grow, sure, but realistically, it will never be a significant player and will never be able to fully replace a Mac or Windows/Linux PC. It will always be grouped together with other obscure systems in the "Others" category in the "Desktop OS market share" pie chart.
As with other hobbies, you can't base your purchasing decisions on practicality. Some people collect old fuel guzzling muscle cars, when a cheap efficient compact car would probably be enough for their needs. Some collect old vinyl records and buy expensive record players to relive their youth, when they could just get a Spotify subscription. Some buy tons of expensive sticks made of plastic and metal called "golf clubs", others buy expensive guns with the only purpose of firing them at paper targets at a shooting range.
I've still got my trusty old A1200/030 but other than to see that it still works, I've had no reason to fire it up in years/decades and haven't used it as my main computer since ~1997. I just can't see myself investing into that platform with accelerators, flicker fixers, CF flash readers etc. WinUAE runs faster and is more convenient for scratching the "retro itch". However I still fondly remember the Amiga, and a new, Amiga-like system that I can use for some day-to-day tasks would certainly be interesting. Just the fact that these systems are still being made, decades after Commodore went bust makes me happy for the people who use and enjoy them still.
For now, the price of the X5000 is a bit too much to swallow for me personally, for such a secondary/hobby system. However I could definitely see myself picking up a Tabor and perhaps a Mac Mini G4 for Morphos in the not so distant future. Not as a replacement for my Core i7 PC, but for the simple reason that it would be fun to play around with something different than the usual Windows and Linux, with which I spend 8 hours a day at work plus countless hours of my spare time.