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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: TuKo on August 04, 2016, 06:25:07 AM

Title: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: TuKo on August 04, 2016, 06:25:07 AM
SILVER9 core has been released and it brings new cool features !

Full changelog :
* Fixed bug in TRAPV
* Fixed bug in Fusing
* Fixed MMU write protect of Kickstart
* Fully enabled Branch-Target-Cache (big speed up)
* DIV 64 flags fixed (thanks R_Nev !)
* Added more AMMX instructions

Download it :
http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/wiki/#latest_cores

Apollo team would be happy to get feedbacks from users using this new SILVER9 core. Be free to join #Apollo-Team IRC channel on Freenode to discuss it.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: ToddH on August 04, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
Can't wait until kipper2k gets to my my name on the waiting list. Ready to put this bad boy through its paces.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: magnetic on August 06, 2016, 04:49:42 AM
awesome work. how is FPU emulation coming?"
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: PPC on August 06, 2016, 06:00:45 AM
Quote from: magnetic;812160
awesome work. how is FPU emulation coming?"


It's not Emulation you know, it's an actual FPU.
The FPU integration hasn't begun yet (FPU itself is done btw)
The team is doing optimizations and bug hunting at the moment.
A-MMX is being implemented now (MMX for 68K), If i remember correctly after this the FPU integration will start.

Exciting times for classic Amiga users, finally the old platform is being moved forward and RTG for everyone!
This week i can finally jump aboard the Apllo 68080/vampire ship, my vampire has arrived at customs last night :)
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: freeaks on August 06, 2016, 09:11:34 PM
this is good.
i ordered my apollo-vampire card too.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: QuikSanz on August 06, 2016, 11:21:46 PM
Has anyone tried Amikit with all the bells and whistles turned on yet? Should be damn snappy!
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Sparky on August 07, 2016, 12:17:00 AM
Quote from: QuikSanz;812192
Has anyone tried Amikit with all the bells and whistles turned on yet? Should be damn snappy!


There is a comment in the Apollo forums saying it's not working so well :

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=5¬e=1618&x=0

I've a spare CF card, might give it a whirl, maybe it's the same issue with the BB2 ROM update ?
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: kolla on August 07, 2016, 12:43:20 AM
The sooner they move away from acc cards and on to stand alone systems, the better.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: UberFreak on August 07, 2016, 01:22:23 AM
I hope the stand-alone comes after all Amiga models get their own Vampire, I want my Vampire 1200 & 4000 yesterday!
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: QuikSanz on August 07, 2016, 03:13:24 AM
Quote from: UberFreak;812200
I hope the stand-alone comes after all Amiga models get their own Vampire, I want my Vampire 1200 & 4000 yesterday!


me too. I'd hate to wast the hardware that I have. A2000 and 4000T soon please!
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: ToddH on August 07, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: QuikSanz;812204
me too. I'd hate to wast the hardware that I have. A2000 and 4000T soon please!


A standalone board with USB that supports keyrah would be an excellent replacement for aging/broken motherboards. Just install in the original case and use the stock keyboard.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: PPC on August 07, 2016, 06:31:39 AM
Quote from: QuikSanz;812192
Has anyone tried Amikit with all the bells and whistles turned on yet? Should be damn snappy!

Yes somebody did, and yes it running very snappy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgjRtPyMs5U

Although I think amikit is bloated.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: fishy_fiz on August 07, 2016, 06:49:11 AM
To each their own and whatnot, but am I alone in wanting something for cd32?

For no reason in particular the idea of the cd32 being genuinely competitive to things like jaguar, 32x, and to a lesser extent 3do really appeals to me.
Would give people like earok "new" titles to play with too  (expanded cd32 releases of things like quake, doom, genetic species, etc..... basically any 68k games that require more grunt than standard a cd32 provides).
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: kolla on August 07, 2016, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;812200
I hope the stand-alone comes after all Amiga models get their own Vampire, I want my Vampire 1200 & 4000 yesterday!

Why, they can do them in parallelle. In my view, they need more hardware people, it will just take too much time if Majsta is to design all the boards, not to mention, it will drain on him. Another option of course, is that they license out the core (which I think was Gunnar's original idea) to people who want to use it on their FPGA projects.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: ShK on August 07, 2016, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: kolla;812224
Why, they can do them in parallelle. In my view, they need more hardware people, it will just take too much time if Majsta is to design all the boards, not to mention, it will drain on him. Another option of course, is that they license out the core (which I think was Gunnar's original idea) to people who want to use it on their FPGA projects.

With a stand-alone board you have to have all in features in operation at once. You can't get anything visible before everything is ready.

Now with acc cards you can add new features one by one and everyone can use them immediately.

In the end when you have all the necessary features tested and working, you can do also stand-alone board much faster.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: spudje on August 07, 2016, 01:34:27 PM
Quote from: ToddH;812206
A standalone board with USB that supports keyrah would be an excellent replacement for aging/broken motherboards. Just install in the original case and use the stock keyboard.


Just for my understanding, what would a standalone Vampire offer more than a MIST/Replay Arcade FPGA??
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: freeaks on August 07, 2016, 02:24:05 PM
Quote from: spudje;812230
Just for my understanding, what would a standalone Vampire offer more than a MIST/Replay Arcade FPGA??


the cpu used on vampire, is a next generation cpu in 68k family.
it offer full compatibility with all the previous cpu.
but, also it offer completely new instructions. multimedia instructions (similar to intel 'mmx') but also a simd (similar to ppc 'altivec') and many other new features.

not to mention raw power. apollo cpu performs a lot better than the cpu found in other standalone products.
sysinfo is a bad benchmark tool,
apollo team made 'minibench' which is more reliable.

vampire score 150+ mips

as you can see here:
http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/files/Apollo_datasheet.pdf

also, all the new intructions mentionned above, have to power to speedup even more data processing, for games and multimedia for example.

so, a standalone vampire would bring
- all backward compatibility
- a lot more power
- saga (think updated, faster aga)
- modern mainboard
with possibility to use off the shelves usb mouse, keyboard, ethernet, hdd ..etc.. without needing all the adaptors. recent chips, memory, capacitors, alimentation and battery.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: fishy_fiz on August 07, 2016, 04:32:13 PM
Personally Id take any benchmark tool made by developers of hardware with a grain of salt. Throughout the ages theyve always favored the vendors hardware. Sysinfo may be unreliable, but its unreliable for all hardware, so theyre on an even keel.

Not that Im trying to dismiss the work done here. It's cool stuff that Im also interested in, but there's been a few things that seem to mirror the usual practice of hand picking/hand tuning performance benchmarks (like the weird suggestion that fpu isnt important, and to prove a point theyve shown interger performance of other hardware vs interger performance of apollo,.... how does this prove anything in regards to fpu? :)).

p.s. in regards to fpu, Im basing this on another persons post here at a.org,...... it's possible that more useful information has actually been posted elsewhere.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: QuikSanz on August 07, 2016, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: ToddH;812206
A standalone board with USB that supports keyrah would be an excellent replacement for aging/broken motherboards. Just install in the original case and use the stock keyboard.


And toss all my Zorro cards? Nope.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: freeaks on August 07, 2016, 11:51:03 PM
@fishy_fiz
everyone have been saying for years that sysinfo is not producing precise results. in addition to that, apollo have new instructions that sysinfo don't know about. sysinfo is just Not good enough anymore as a tool to get a good sense of a cpu's power.

nevertheless, apollo-vampire results on sysinfo are known.
it can be seen on the same link i gave earlier.

about fpu, it's coming.. a bit more of patience
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: IanP on August 08, 2016, 12:48:04 AM
I think it's important for the Apollo Core to become established as the natural successor for the Amiga 68K machines. The best way to achieve that acceptance is by supplying accelerators for the existing classic Amiga lines before trying to create stand alone products. Persuading an Amiga fan to add an accelerator to their beloved machine is easier than persuading them to purchase a new computer I would imagine.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: slaapliedje on August 09, 2016, 05:31:21 AM
I've been waiting patiently for one for the A4000... will definitely order one when they become available.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Kremlar on August 09, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
I'd love a standalone to go along with my FPGA Arcade!
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: AJCopland on August 09, 2016, 01:23:37 PM
Quote from: IanP;812253
I think it's important for the Apollo Core to become established as the natural successor for the Amiga 68K machines. The best way to achieve that acceptance is by supplying accelerators for the existing classic Amiga lines before trying to create stand alone products. Persuading an Amiga fan to add an accelerator to their beloved machine is easier than persuading them to purchase a new computer I would imagine.

Then it'd be good for those who are able to offer to help them out designing boards etc.

It looks like a simple adapter for the V500 can cover the A1000/A1500/A2000, but that leaves A3000(/UX) and A4000D/T of the big boxes. Then there's the A1200 and CD32.

Part of the work is board design, layout, and routing which people could help with.

Go and volunteer over at http://www.apollo-core.com if you're interested and see what they have to say.

EDIT: I am not involved in the project, just suggesting that if people want to see a Vampire board for a particular machine, then helping to develop it might be the fastest route.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Crom00 on August 09, 2016, 02:13:45 PM
Well said AJ, at this point it's up to the users. I don't think classic will supported by anyone out there aside from good folks like Jens and the Apollo Team and a handful of hardcore devs. So why not contribute. The SA version will be quite nice. I am a vampire team member. What I like most about the Vampire project is the whole Amiga /Atari Tramiel concept of power without the price.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: polyp2000 on August 10, 2016, 08:46:53 AM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;812236
Sysinfo may be unreliable, but its unreliable for all hardware, so theyre on an even keel.

I actually disagree here - its easy to game a known bench-marking tool when you know and have the ability to tweak to improve the results - (not that this is necessarily a bad thing). With regular 68k the statement holds, but not when you add an FPGA cpu into the mix.

Id be more interested in looking at how things run. Speed of rendering Lightwave scenes, emulation. Things that a regular Amiga would struggle with.

Real world usage is what counts - bench-marking really just gives you a general idea.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: psxphill on August 10, 2016, 01:11:57 PM
Quote from: Crom00;812319
JWhat I like most about the Vampire project is the whole Amiga /Atari Tramiel concept of power without the price.


Jack would never have used an FPGA, too expensive and upgradable.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: UberFreak on August 10, 2016, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: ToddH;812206
A standalone board with USB that supports keyrah would be an excellent replacement for aging/broken motherboards. Just install in the original case and use the stock keyboard.


But then its not an Amiga anymore...
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: OlafS3 on August 10, 2016, 04:52:58 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;812359
But then its not an Amiga anymore...

technical new standalone versions will be very different from old amigas

not amiga anymore?
Depends on definition
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Heiroglyph on August 10, 2016, 05:30:43 PM
Oh God, here we go down this rabbit hole again.

The thread is about the new core, let's try to talk about that.

To me the price to performance ratio of the Vampire with the Apollo core is the best thing to happen to this community in decades.

I'm next on the list to get a v500 and I haven't been more excited about new hardware in years.

When the 4000 version or a stand alone is available, I'll be buying multiples and whether it's still an Amiga is the last thing on my mind.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Niding on August 27, 2016, 08:00:34 PM
Kookytech/Dan Wood and Ravi Abbott has posted a interview with Gunnar about the current state of the Vampire project:

https://soundcloud.com/the-retro-hour

Interview starts at around 9 minutes into the show.

Talks about Standalone Vampire with 1 gigabyte of memory.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: ToddH on August 27, 2016, 09:06:13 PM
Got my re-capped 600 sitting on my desk beside me ready for V2. The wait is killing me!
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: mechy on August 28, 2016, 12:02:21 AM
Quote from: OlafS3;812365
technical new standalone versions will be very different from old amigas

not amiga anymore?
Depends on definition

no, it doesn't depend on your definition.. there is only one thing that is Amiga, how can this be so confusing to people.

A stand alone system is not an Amiga regardless of how much you want it to to be, just like a blender with an amiga sticker is not an Amiga ;)
A mac is a mac, a pc clone is a pc clone etc.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: mechy on August 28, 2016, 12:03:51 AM
Quote from: Kremlar;812316
I'd love a standalone to go along with my FPGA Arcade!

Why not join in instead of trying to get around what is amiga and order up a vampire and support the guys making cool HW.
I have 3 now and i can tell you its pretty cool.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Kremlar on August 28, 2016, 12:38:59 AM
Quote from: mechy;813070
Why not join in instead of trying to get around what is amiga and order up a vampire and support the guys making cool HW.
I have 3 now and i can tell you its pretty cool.


I'm on the list!  :)
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: Iggy on August 28, 2016, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;812359
But then its not an Amiga anymore...


OMG...serious facepalm.
"It has no legacy parts, so its not an Amiga".
STFU. :rofl:
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: fishy_fiz on August 28, 2016, 04:06:57 PM
Quote from: mechy;813069

A mac is a mac, a pc clone is a pc clone etc.


Just because talking in circles seems to be popular I offer the following idea and question:

Isnt a Mac these days also a pc clone running MacOS with an Apple badge?
And what about a Hackintosh? Same hardware and software sans logo.
And what about the officially endorsed Mac clones?

I wonder if Apple fans argue these sorts of things as aggressively as we do.
Id hazzard a guess this is an "amiga" trait and that theyre more preoccupied with enjoying their systems than arguing how they should be defined.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: WeiXing3D on August 28, 2016, 09:35:06 PM
Will the stand alone version be able to be used side by side a FPGA Replay or MiST FPGA? And if so, how?

In my case, I'm using both, the Replay and MiST.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: TuKo on August 28, 2016, 10:39:42 PM
This mainly depends of the space available on your desk :laughing:
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: UberFreak on August 29, 2016, 12:48:42 AM
Quote from: Iggy;813110
OMG...serious facepalm.
"It has no legacy parts, so its not an Amiga".
STFU. :rofl:


You can call anything you want an Amiga, but it doesn't make it one...
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: WeiXing3D on August 29, 2016, 05:46:47 AM
Quote from: TuKo;813142
This mainly depends of the space available on your desk :laughing:


How would that work?
Title: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: SamuraiCrow on August 29, 2016, 06:47:22 AM
Quote from: WeiXing3D;813156
How would that work?


Since the FPGA will be incompatible, you'll need to buy the stand alone Apollo board to run its cores.  FPGA Arcade uses Xilinx, Apollo core runs on Altera.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: WeiXing3D on August 29, 2016, 05:37:57 PM
Quote from: SamuraiCrow;813158
Since the FPGA will be incompatible, you'll need to buy the stand alone Apollo board to run its cores.  FPGA Arcade uses Xilinx, Apollo core runs on Altera.


So it's not like it was implied in previous posts in this thread, that they could work together or side by side. That's a setback in my case.

I hope the daughter board of the FPGA Replay Arcade is finished soon to have something as mean as the Vampire.

In any case, kudos to the Vampire/Apollo teams.
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: fishy_fiz on August 29, 2016, 05:56:49 PM
Was never implied, you just missed the joke.   :)
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: psxphill on August 30, 2016, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: UberFreak;813147
You can call anything you want an Amiga, but it doesn't make it one...

As soon as you start replacing parts then it becomes tricky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

If you replaced the mother board in an a1200 with a brand new one that was software compatible with all amiga software, would it still be an amiga?
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: gertsy on August 31, 2016, 09:06:07 AM
Amiga Technologies A1200?
Title: Re: SILVER9 core released for Vampire 600 V2
Post by: billt on August 31, 2016, 06:19:33 PM
Quote from: SamuraiCrow;813158
FPGA Arcade uses Xilinx, Apollo core runs on Altera.


They could port it. Shouldn't be a tremendously huge job, but there would be a few things to take care of. Slight variations on how to implicitly instantiate FIFOs, other memory elements, some hardwired items, perhaps a few other things I'm not thinking of at the moment. Should be a reasonable job for someone competent. It's really a choice of policy and if an agreement could be made between them...