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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Marcel21674 on June 22, 2016, 10:16:13 AM
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I bought this chip from vesalia last week. Installed it yesterday, but it creates some problems.
If i want to play a game from floppy, it boots fine and i can play my game, no problems.
But.... if i insert workbench 3.1, it will boot, but i only get a grey workbench screen. Can't acces the menu's and i don't see my 2 diskdrives.
Tried the workbench adf's from amiga forever 2016, but no luck.
What am i doing wrong?
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Looks like the Workbench.library is missing from the Cloanto ROM. You could copy the missing library from A4000T Workbench install disk to your hard drive.
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Looks like the Workbench.library is missing from the Cloanto ROM. You could copy the missing library from A4000T Workbench install disk to your hard drive.
I had a feeling...:)
How do i get that file? I don't have a A4000T workbench install disk...:(
Does it have to be the library of a 3.1 setup, or can i use a 3.9 setup as well..
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Maybe it's way easier to just send it back and get myself a original 3.1 kickstart rom...
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Maybe it's way easier to just send it back and get myself a original 3.1 kickstart rom...
A question Cloanto probably wouldn't look too kindly on, but could the rom be edited to add the missing components and be re-burned?
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The workbench.library should be included with AmigaForever 2016 as it's used for their 3.x ROM and 3.1 A4000T Rom builds which don't have it in the ROM.
In a careful balance of preservation, restoration and innovation, features of all Amiga Forever Classic Support editions of Workbench 3.1 include:
Dates were preserved, while file attributes and comments were restored (relative to the distribution by ESCOM and Village Tronic)
Updated C/Version command (Y2K patch)
Addition of Libs/workbench.library (for A-4000T 3.1 ROMs and 3.X ROMs)
You may want to look at a 4000T system setup to pull the file.
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I had a similar problem using a new production kickstart in an A500. There's a thread over on eab.abime.net that details a fix that worked for me. The fix is to install resistor packs that act as pull ups on the address bus. The board has pads for the resistors, but they weren't needed for the older roms, so they weren't populated from the factory.
Here's the link: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=525862&postcount=322
This one had a similar fix, but attaches to the rom socket rather than the motherboard: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=82824
Ack, I read gray but missed workbench! My symptoms were slightly different. My machine usually froze at a gray screen during the early boot, but occasionally made it far enough to boot from the floppy (before freezing at some later point). If yours reliably boots to workbench, this might be different.
In need of coffee,
Robert
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Every thread I've seen mentioning that "3.x" ROM has been nothing but problems. Almost makes me wonder if anyone has had it "just work", lol. ;)
IMHO I'd send it back and get a straight 3.1 ROM, also. Or burn your own. ;)
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It says the workbench.library was removed to save space. OS 3.5 and 3.9 don't need it to load.
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It says the workbench.library was removed to save space. OS 3.5 and 3.9 don't need it to load.
And if I remove my belt it will save space in my luggage, but that doesn't mean my pants won't fall down, or that my wardrobe will be more functional. ;)
j/k, I've been loading workbench.library off disk for years. Works fine. Off-hand I think the latest version is 45.134.
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If you need some library : http://amiga.foul.fr/
;)
ps : latest workbench.library (http://amiga.foul.fr/ressource.php?id=Work%2FLibs%2Fworkbench_45.134%28020%2B%29%2827.09.14%29.library&orderby=nom&order=asc)
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If I remember correctly, the current Workbench floppy distribution that Cloanto are selling, has fixed this issue by having workbench.library (and icon.library) on the boot floppies, from where it is made resident for next reboots. Which is also what I do.
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ps : latest workbench.library (http://amiga.foul.fr/ressource.php?id=Work%2FLibs%2Fworkbench_45.134%28020%2B%29%2827.09.14%29.library&orderby=nom&order=asc)
It annoys me that 68000 is left behind after 45.127 , and that all improvements are for 020+ only. PeterK manages to update icon.library for both 68000 and 68020+, I wish that whoever are fiddling with workbench.library could do that same.
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Maybe it's way easier to just send it back and get myself a original 3.1 kickstart rom...
Registrado your rom in Cloanto,and you can download the library.
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It says the workbench.library was removed to save space. OS 3.5 and 3.9 don't need it to load.
It was removed from the KS ROM (512k) to save space for other patches/libraries and now required loading it from floppy since it wasn't in the ROM.
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If you need some library : http://amiga.foul.fr/
;)
ps : latest workbench.library (http://amiga.foul.fr/ressource.php?id=Work%2FLibs%2Fworkbench_45.134%28020%2B%29%2827.09.14%29.library&orderby=nom&order=asc)
Nice site! Bookmarked, gotta come in handy from time to time.
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Is it 1mb rom possible with A500? Leaving workbench library out is not good idea. Boot from floppy it needs more libraries than original rom have, workbench.library must be in Sys:libs.
I have 1mb rom in both of my A1200s it is very good solution. Prety much every hard drive works, no problem with partition size, it support every availlable filesystem on fly, cf cards etc.
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A question Cloanto probably wouldn't look too kindly on, but could the rom be edited to add the missing components and be re-burned?
No, there is just not enough room left in the ROM to allow for everyting to fit. The Cloanto ROMs feature updated components which are significantly larger than they used to be in the old 3.1 ROMs, e.g. the FastFileSystem. While the size changes may seem to be modest, they do add up.
Commodore ran into the same problem with the 3.1 ROMs for the A600/A1200/A4000T, and while they managed to make just enough room for the A600/A1200 ROMs, the sizes of the components in the A4000T ROM broke the camel's back, so to speak. Which is why the A4000T ROM dropped the "workbench.library". It's the one single component which is the easiest to "sacrifice".
There may be other options for fitting components into ROM one day. It might just be possible to use data compression, at the expense of increasing system startup times and making more demands on available memory. I did that sort of thing before, for the Picasso IV ROM, except that it loaded the components off the flash ROM into memory only, without decompressing them. But that could be added, it's not that terribly hard to pull off.
The problem being that you need a compression method that saves enough space, a corresponding decompressor small enough not to eat up the gains, and enough memory to decompress the data.
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Exactly what prevents updating all Amiga models with 1MB kickstarts these days?
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Physical address lines? :)
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Physical address lines? :)
On anything less than a 68020, yeah that makes sense.
So the CD32, 1200, 3000 and 4000 ought to be able to handle a 1 meg rom.
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I bought this chip from vesalia last week. Installed it yesterday, but it creates some problems.
If i want to play a game from floppy, it boots fine and i can play my game, no problems.
But.... if i insert workbench 3.1, it will boot, but i only get a grey workbench screen. Can't acces the menu's and i don't see my 2 diskdrives.
Tried the workbench adf's from amiga forever 2016, but no luck.
What am i doing wrong?
Simple solution, get the cloanto 3.X disk sett from vesalia......
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If you need some library : http://amiga.foul.fr/
;)
ps : latest workbench.library (http://amiga.foul.fr/ressource.php?id=Work%2FLibs%2Fworkbench_45.134%28020%2B%29%2827.09.14%29.library&orderby=nom&order=asc)
Great, thanks
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Physical address lines? :)
However, there are 1MB kickstart solutions for A500:
http://retro.7-bit.pl/?lang=en&go=projekty&name=a500flash
Also, CDTV could come with a 512kB 1.3 kickstart plus 256kB extended ROM.
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So the CD32, 1200, 3000 and 4000 ought to be able to handle a 1 meg rom.
CD32 had some whackadoodle design to use up to 2x 16-bit 1MB ROM's (total of 2MB), rather than the 32-bit ROM's like the A1200/4000. By default it had only a single 1MB ROM chip that had both 3.1 & the custom CD32 stuff in it. I seem to recall someone here a while back hacked their system to support both ROM sockets (and burned custom ROM's for it), but had some issues with memory addressing overlap. Don't have time to look up the thread now, but maybe it was Cosmos?
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Also, CDTV could come with a 512kB 1.3 kickstart plus 256kB extended ROM.
AFAIK 1.3 was only 256K. Didn't go up to 512K till 2.0. Didn't the CDTV use the same ROM's as A500 + the additional chips for it's special functions?
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However, there are 1MB kickstart solutions for A500:
http://retro.7-bit.pl/?lang=en&go=projekty&name=a500flash
I'm thinking a 1 meg rom could probably hold what's needed for no reboot on an A2000 for
3.9 and start Algor. What's left out I could put in Algor flash to finish.
Now for someone who knows how to do that........
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Hi to everyone!
I want to upgrade the kickstart of my a600 to 3.1. Is it better to buy the compatible one from amigakit or from cloanto? I have read on this thread that cloanto is missing the workbench.library. What does this means? If i buy a cloanto kick rom i have to buy also the cloanto workbench disk set in order to load properly workbench?
thank you in advance :)
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Hi to everyone!
I want to upgrade the kickstart of my a600 to 3.1. Is it better to buy the compatible one from amigakit or from cloanto? I have read on this thread that cloanto is missing the workbench.library.
Cloanto has chosen to exclude the WB.library out from the kickstart. Means you have to put workbwench.library in the sys:Libs/ folder on the bootable media. I.E. HDD or floppy....
What does this means? If i buy a cloanto kick rom i have to buy also the cloanto workbench disk set in order to load properly workbench?
thank you in advance :)
Yes. this would be a good solution. But earlier in this thread there are a link to the latest WB.library and you can download it, put it in Libs folder and still use the computer. No need to buy the cloanto disk set.
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Thank you pyrre for the explanation!
In the case of the amigakit rom, if i would like to upgrade to a newer version of workbench library (and not use the one inside the chip) how difficult that would be? It is the same procedure? adding the library on sys:Libs/?
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CD32 had some whackadoodle design to use up to 2x 16-bit 1MB ROM's (total of 2MB), rather than the 32-bit ROM's like the A1200/4000. By default it had only a single 1MB ROM chip that had both 3.1 & the custom CD32 stuff in it. I seem to recall someone here a while back hacked their system to support both ROM sockets (and burned custom ROM's for it), but had some issues with memory addressing overlap. Don't have time to look up the thread now, but maybe it was Cosmos?
I'd love to find out more about that.
I am enjoying experimenting with Smerf's CD32.
With the SX1 attached it does a pretty good imitation of an A1200 with an added CD drive.
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I'd love to find out more about that.
There was a thread on here about it a few months ago. I was just paraphrasing from memory. If you look at the motherboard of a CD32 you can see where the extra ROM socket would go:
(U6B, under the sticker)
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There was a thread on here about it a few months ago. I was just paraphrasing from memory. If you look at the motherboard of a CD32 you can see where the extra ROM socket would go:
(U6B, under the sticker)
Cool, I will dig up some info of that.
Thanks.
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Thank you pyrre for the explanation!
In the case of the amigakit rom, if i would like to upgrade to a newer version of workbench library (and not use the one inside the chip) how difficult that would be? It is the same procedure? adding the library on sys:Libs/?
If wb.lib is present in rom, you need setpatch (if setpatch updates the wb library), or you need some sort of softkick that uses an updated kickstart file from disk, if you have compatible hardware. Or you need to change the rom itself...
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i see, thank you once again for your answer pyrre :)
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i see, thank you once again for your answer pyrre :)
no problem. hope you find the answers you are looking for.
I will as soon as my wallet agrees purchase the cloanto kick rom and disk set.
I just need to obtain some funds :)
If it works well in the 500+ i will consider doing it to the a1200 as well...
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Note, the above linked workbench.library (45.132) requires 020+ and will not work on stock A600 that only has a 68000 CPU. The latest workbench.library that works with 68000 is 45.127 that comes with OS3.9 (BB2). On a small/low memort system, you may want to just use the smaller workbench.library from 3.1.