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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Kremlar on June 09, 2016, 03:44:25 AM
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I've been on the lookout for an Amiga 1200 to use as my main Amiga to play games on. My plan is to load WHDLoad (which I've never used) on it.
I finally found and "rescued" one from eBay from a local seller. Sold as non-working, no power supply, missing the trap door cover, very yellow, etc...
Picked it up today and here's what it is:
Commmodore Amiga 1200HD (Rev 1D)
MicroBotics 1200Z Expansion Card w/4MB RAM (maybe 8MB?)
MicroBotics 12 A'Clock Clockport Card
Kickstart 3.0
Maxtor 80MB 2.5" IDE Drive
Attached are some pics. My goal is to clean up this PC and update it to the point where it would make a great WHDLoad machine.
Any comments/suggestions welcome, but here are my questions:
1 - My understanding is that a 1200 with fast RAM makes a great WHDLoad machine. Sounds like I'm all set then. Am I correct?
2 - I see this machine had a clock port clock, and the clock on the MicroBotics 1200Z was disabled. Why is that? Why would I not want to just use the 1200Z's clock, eliminating the clock port card?
3 - System has Kickstart 3.0. Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to 3.1?
4 - I'm planning on sending this board to Acill to get recapped. Anything else I should consider doing to it at the same time? How about the "timing fixes" I often hear about?
5 - I'm thinking about the CF Card IDE interface from AmigaKit:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_78&products_id=883
Anything else worth considering to replace the hard drive? Anything easier to access from the outside?
6 - Will want to get a replacement trapdoor cover. I see some on Shapeways. Any other suggestions to get this replaced?
7 - Any other upgrades/etc. worth doing to the 1200 that I might be missing?
Thanks in advance for any and all comments/suggestions! Really appreciate it.
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More pics.
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An 030 should be perfect. Not sure about 25Mhz or so but 40 or 50Mhz should be really nice. An Indie AGA would be nice too!
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An 030 should be perfect. Not sure about 25Mhz or so but 40 or 50Mhz should be really nice. An Indie AGA would be nice too!
Thanks! I thought an 020 with fast RAM was sufficient for most games, am I wrong? Any good games in particular require an 030 or higher?
I already have a display capable of displaying all the Amiga modes, so not sure what advantage an Indivision AGA would give me.
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I would use either a fast '020 board (like Jens') or an '030, personally, and at least 4MB of fast ram. 3.1 ROM's fix a lot of bugs in the 3.0 ones and make working with ACA accelerators specifically a lot easier. And c'mon, they can be bought new for under $20 bucks.
Indivision will allow you to use almost any modern monitor, TV, or projector with your system. Of course some people don't care about these things.
WHDLoad makes running almost any old game like... Well, like it should have been in the first place. Double-click on the icon to start the game, then press the 'quit' key to return to Workbench when you're done. Personally I would never use anything else. ;)
Also ditch the hard drive and get a CF. Kipper2k makes a 90-degree adapter that allows you to access the CF from outside the case. :)
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030 works better for some games adding a bit of smoothness and a bit better control, especially on simulator type stuff. Also WHDLoad can make use of it, OS3.1 plays well with it.
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5 - I'm thinking about the CF Card IDE interface from AmigaKit:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=883 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_78&products_id=883)
Anything else worth considering to replace the hard drive? Anything easier to access from the outside?
Also ditch the hard drive and get a CF. Kipper2k makes a 90-degree adapter that allows you to access the CF from outside the case.
I'd say, but get a 8GB cheap DOM instead a cable+CF adapter+CF or purchasing specific pieces of hardware. Transfer software from the outside using a simple PCMCIA SD/CF adapter.
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1 - You're correct, an A1200 with some Fast RAM (4MB or more) will make a perfectly adequate WHDLoad machine. If you use a games launcher such as Tinylauncher early in the startup-sequence to save RAM, you can have the machine boot straight into Tinylauncher. I did this on one of my machines years ago - but holding down the left mouse button upon booting skips Tinylauncher and loads Workbench - best of both worlds. Another machine I have with an 030 loads Tinylauncher after Workbench has booted (goes straight to Tinylauncher screen not Workbench) but when I quit it the Workbench is there ready to use. My serious machine boots into Workbench and I use iGame instead.
2 - They probably bought the clock port clock before the Fast RAM card.
3 - No, upgrading to 3.1 is a waste of time and money for your WHDLoad machine. If down the line you find yourself wanting a more powerful Amiga, then you can upgrade your RAM card with a CPU card and softkick 3.1.
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3 - No, upgrading to 3.1 is a waste of time and money for you WHDLoad machine. If down the line you find yourself wanting a more powerful Amiga, then you can upgrade your RAM card with a CPU card and softkick 3.1.
OMG. Every single time this subject comes up you chime in with your hatred for 3.1. Softkickicking wastes precious RAM, and 3.1 ROM's cost less than $20 bucks. They contain many bugfixes over 3.0 and are required if the user wants to update, e.g., to 3.9.
Why do you hate 3.1 so much? SMDH :p
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Thank for the replies guys! I think I will clean everything up, get it recapped, and try it with the existing 020 and RAM expansion I have - then consider an accelerator if it's not sufficient.
I think I will use the clock on the 1200Z RAM expansion and eliminate the A'Clock. It looks like the clock chip has been removed from the 1200Z, which the manual states to do. I assume I can just move the chip from the A'Clock right over to the 1200Z and then install a new battery.
I am a bit confused about what to do about storage. I've never installed WHDLoad before so think I will need to be doing a lot of back and forth to get everything setup the way I want it. For that reason I thought about going with a CompactFlash that would be accessible from the outside, like this one:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?77919-Amiga-1200-Compact-Flash-CF-IDE-Back-Plate&highlight=amiga+1200+trapdoor
Thinking that I could setup everything on WinUAE and bring back and forth as needed.
The DOM sounds like a nice idea too and how I'd probably prefer it in the end.
I believe my RAM expansion actually has 8MB but there's a jumper limiting it to 4MB. My understanding is that if it's at 8MB PCMCIA will not work. Does that sound correct? Any way around that limitation?
Thanks again guys!
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obviously 030+ makes no difference to 99% to WHDload games more games like Doom, for WHDoad extra Ram helps infact theres ways of running WHDload Slave's on 2mb machines now but still beta - and you might find upgrading to kick 3.1 introduces a bug where over 4mb you cant use the pcmcia slot and OS3.5+ can be run on kick 3.0 with software patching. try google if you need more info.
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Almost forgot:
7 - PCMCIA CF Adapter + CF card - easy transfers of data to your A1200.
@ Mike : I believe this chap is trying to do this on a budget...there's no need to buy unecessary stuff. WHDLoad runs fine on Kickstart 2.0, never mind 3.1.
@ Kremlar - If you decide you want to use the internet a bit with IBrowse I'd recommend 8MB RAM, which unless you upgrade to a PCMCIA friendly CPU card you're stuck with 4MB or 6MB (jumper switch permitting on the RAM card) or your wireless / ethernet card won't work.
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@ Mike : I believe this chap is trying to do this on a budget...there's no need to buy unecessary stuff. WHDLoad runs fine on Kickstart 2.0, never mind 3.1.
I don't want to spend money unnecessarily, but I might throw in Kickstart 3.1 while I have it open and placing other orders. Definitely don't want to waste on an accelerator if the games I'm interested in won't benefit. And if my needs change, perhaps the Vampire 1200 will be out by then. :)
7 - PCMCIA CF Adapter + CF card - easy transfers of data to your A1200.
This sounds like a good idea, especially if I don't go with an externally accessible CF. Will check it out.
@ Kremlar - If you decide you want to use the internet a bit with IBrowse I'd recommend 8MB RAM, which unless you upgrade to a PCMCIA friendly CPU card you're stuck with 4MB or 6MB (jumper switch permitting on the RAM card) or your wireless / ethernet card won't work.
I doubt I'd do any web browsing. This memory card has a 4MB jumper and it's set like that now, but I believe the SIMM is actually 8MB.
Thanks!
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4 - Regarding timing fixes, refer to this page here:
http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/A1200_Mobo_fix/a1200_mobo_fix.html)
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You need more then 4MB for Amiga... maybe for AmigaOS3.1 only and MagicWB will be fine, but if you want 3.9... 8 MB is "reasonable" minimum.
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OMG. Every single time this subject comes up you chime in with your hatred for 3.1. Softkickicking wastes precious RAM, and 3.1 ROM's cost less than $20 bucks. They contain many bugfixes over 3.0 and are required if the user wants to update, e.g., to 3.9.
Why do you hate 3.1 so much? SMDH :p
Well, to be honest I like my ROM in RAM for a substantial speed boost - so 512K will be eaten anyway. If you like your ROM to be slow and not in Fast RAM, then each to their own I suppose - whatever tickles your fancy.
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and you might find upgrading to kick 3.1 introduces a bug where over 4mb you cant use the pcmcia slot
That's not a bug, that's fixing a memory conflict in the address space. :p
Most decent accelerators won't have that problem anyway, it's only the cheapo "8MB + FPU + Clock" type boards that fit their ram into the same address space that the PCMCIA slot uses. Thanks, Commodore! ;)
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Like alot of these things I cant realy remember but I dont think this issue will affect pcmcia to CF etc so if you have such a card 8mb and kick 3.0 with PCMCIA 2CF I think your be ok.
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For that reason I thought about going with a CompactFlash that would be accessible from the outside, like this one:
Another option that I always liked:
http://www.kipper2k.com/cfadapters.html
Keeps your knockout port free and doesn't require a long cable. Of course you have to trim the plastic above the PCMCIA slot a bit.
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If you are sending it to Acill, have him check the IDE header. The machine I rescued had the header almost completely corroded away by cap leakage; needed to replace it.
And yes, the CF to IDE adapter is the best thing ever. You are limited to 4GB (plenty) with OS 3.0.
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If you are sending it to Acill, have him check the IDE header. The machine I rescued had the header almost completely corroded away by cap leakage; needed to replace it.
An absolute must. I've seen this in two A1200, the IDE pins broke even before the motherboard gets damaged, it's extremely easy to pull the cable and find that some pins are still inside the connector :(
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I thought an 020 with fast RAM was sufficient for most games, am I wrong?
Heh, I've run WHDLoad with an Amiga 2000 with a 68000, OS 3.1, and 4 megs of Fast RAM.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
July 30-31 Commodore Vegas Expo v12 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
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Heh, I've run WHDLoad with an Amiga 2000 with a 68000, OS 3.1, and 4 megs of Fast RAM.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
July 30-31 Commodore Vegas Expo v12 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
I can beat that! I've ran it with a OS 2 68000 A600 with a 2MB SRAM card, I did for about a year anyway, before getting a Kipper 4MB upgrade. Had 2MB Chip as well. A number of slaves wouldn't work with the 68000 for which the original games were designed, but I think they've been slowly fixing that.
I even ran it at first with just 2MB Chip, but 2-disk games were very slow with the loading, small games were fine. But honestly, 4MB fast and 2MB Chip is the minimum I'd run it on (along with a 68020 or above due to the slaves which weren't 68000 tested). :)
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68030 plus you only need for the later games that came out on Amiga, say post 93, games like Gloom, alien breed 3D, the killing ground, foundations, on escape, napalm, etc, most of the classic stuff will run fine on stock Amiga.
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True, my 2 Amiga 1200 runs perfect with 3,0 ROM, don,t understand why it has to be 3.1.
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I can beat that! I've ran it with a OS 2 68000 A600 with a 2MB SRAM card, I did for about a year anyway, before getting a Kipper 4MB upgrade. Had 2MB Chip as well. A number of slaves wouldn't work with the 68000 for which the original games were designed, but I think they've been slowly fixing that.
I even ran it at first with just 2MB Chip, but 2-disk games were very slow with the loading, small games were fine. But honestly, 4MB fast and 2MB Chip is the minimum I'd run it on (along with a 68020 or above due to the slaves which weren't 68000 tested). :)
Yeah you get far with just a 4MB SRAM card, ive ran most multidisk games on a A600 with 4MB SRAM in the past, as long as I removed the ;preload tag on big games most worked without issues :)
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One more comment about 030. Despite 030 being quite slow processor, I can do basically almost anything on my Amiga, similarly as on 040 or 060 (with exception of heavy lifting like mp3 decoding etc.).
It is not tragic cpu, considering fact that there is not that much software that really need something faster... (kind of).
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And yes, the CF to IDE adapter is the best thing ever. You are limited to 4GB (plenty) with OS 3.0.
SD to IDE adapter is even better. SD cards are more reliable with Amiga. Also OS 3.0 does not limit the card to 4 GB, however it requires patched scsi.device and capable filesystem.
I use SD to IDE adapter as the main drive and cascaded PCMCIA to CF with CF to SD adapters for data exchange.
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Motherboard is off to Acill to get recapped. I asked him to check the IDE header and also to do any timing fixes that might be recommended for this board. He also suggested removing the RF modulator which I agreed with.
While the board is bring recapped I am working on the case. I submerged the top half in standard 3% peroxide and left it out in the sun for 4 days and these are the results. The left half is still slightly more discolored, but not bad. Going to work on the bottom half of the case now.
Still deciding on what upgrades to do. Definitely going to stick with the standard 020 and RAM card I got with it for now. Will probably go with Kickstart 3.1 for the heck of it. I think I'd prefer an externally accessible CF card so I can easily move back and forth between the 1200 and WinUAE, but an internal DOM is tempting too.
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Definitely going to stick with the standard 020 and RAM card I got with it for now.
Yes, don't let anyone talk you into buying expensive accelerators that you don't need for Whdload.
Will probably go with Kickstart 3.1 for the heck of it.
I wouldn't bother. You get absolutely ZERO benefit from that for a Whdload system. There truly is no point.
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Yes, don't let anyone talk you into buying expensive accelerators that you don't need for Whdload.
I wouldn't bother. You get absolutely ZERO benefit from that for a Whdload system. There truly is no point.
Understood... just "feels" better have the latest Kickstart for only an additional $17 or so...
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Understood... just "feels" better have the latest Kickstart for only an additional $17 or so...
...best feeling ever ;)
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Understood... just "feels" better have the latest Kickstart for only an additional $17 or so...
...best feeling ever ;). I can't even explain it. When I switched to ROM 3.1 from ROM 3.0 my world completely changed. This new experience of having, new, latest ROM for my 20+ year old Amiga gave so much light into my life. I'm 100% relaxed when I don't think about mapping my ROM, that it is copied to FAST RAM during boot. No, this times are gone for ever and will never come back. All of this was possible, due to AmigaKit.com who sold me ROM 3.1 for my A1200 (with MANUAL!). Days of darkens and pain are gone. Get yourself new life, get ROM 3.1. You will not regret it, ever and you will not look back.
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...best feeling ever ;). I can't even explain it. When I switched to ROM 3.1 from ROM 3.0 my world completely changed. This new experience of having, new, latest ROM for my 20+ year old Amiga gave so much light into my life. I'm 100% relaxed when I don't think about mapping my ROM, that it is copied to FAST RAM during boot. No, this times are gone for ever and will never come back. All of this was possible, due to AmigaKit.com who sold me ROM 3.1 for my A1200 (with MANUAL!). Days of darkens and pain are gone. Get yourself new life, get ROM 3.1. You will not regret it, ever and you will not look back.
LOL! I suspect a Vampire 1200 might feel better. ;)
You're not making fun of me are you???
:roflmao:
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...best feeling ever ;). I can't even explain it. When I switched to ROM 3.1 from ROM 3.0 my world completely changed... (snip)
Omg guys. Funny, though. ;)
See this link: http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_Roms_Explained
Scroll down to the heading "Why upgrade from Kickstart 3.0 to Kickstart 3.1?"
and this link: http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31.html
Read the review and the .lha-compressed text file list of changes linked to at the top.
Bug-fixes and new features, all in an easy-to-install pop-out ROM package, as well as compatibility with later versions of the OS like 3.9. Well worth the princely sum of around $20 USD, at least for me. ;)
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Still deciding on what upgrades to do. Definitely going to stick with the standard 020 and RAM card I got with it for now. Will probably go with Kickstart 3.1 for the heck of it. I think I'd prefer an externally accessible CF card so I can easily move back and forth between the 1200 and WinUAE, but an internal DOM is tempting too.
I have the internal IDE-CF acting as a hard drive and also a PCMCIA-CF for getting stuff off PC. Total cost is like $20.
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Bug-fixes and new features, all in an easy-to-install pop-out ROM package, as well as compatibility with later versions of the OS like 3.9. Well worth the princely sum of around $20 USD, at least for me. ;)
Completely useless if all you want to do is run Whdload games. I'm not against 3.1, but for Whdload games only it's just not beneficial. It's not even about the cash. It's about having to install this, which means messing around with the mobo for no good reason at all. Just leave it be.
Don't recommend things that people don't need. I'm surprised no one has recommended a 68060 yet :lol:
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I had to downgrade to the 030/40 on my A2000 cause my Tek060 passed died. Sure wish I still had it, Napalm ran great!
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Sure wish I still had it, Napalm ran great!
How does Napalm hold up against Starcraft?
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Sorry, don't have Starcraft. Need to look that one up.
Chris
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It's about having to install this, which means messing around with the mobo for no good reason at all. Just leave it be.
If that was the case, why not just stay on 1.3? Or 1.0, for that matter? Heck, why even use computers at all when we could be banging rocks together for fun? :laughing:
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Need to look that one up.
You should. One of the best RTS games ever produced, and it can still be bought from Blizzard (don't confuse it with Starcraft 2).
If that was the case, why not just stay on 1.3? Or 1.0, for that matter? Heck, why even use computers at all when we could be banging rocks together for fun? :laughing:
Oh lord :rolleyes:
I would rather not mess around with the innards of my computer if it doesn't yield any benefits. Whats the point? It's like removing dust from a heat sink while there's no dust on it. It's completely pointless. Upgrading 3.0 to 3.1 for Whdload is equally pointless.
Sigh :o
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I would rather not mess around with the innards of my computer if it doesn't yield any benefits. Whats the point? It's like removing dust from a heat sink while there's no dust on it. It's completely pointless.
Sigh :o
In my case, though, the 1200 is completely disassembled already so the install is much easier. :)
I ended up ordering from AmigaKit.
Kickstart 3.1:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=62
Externally Accessible CF Card:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1216
Still working on whitening the bottom portion of the cases and keys. Should be done in the next couple of days.
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I'm also going to work on my A1200 desktop, but Acill first need to replace cap in it. I will use with AmigaOS3.1+MagicWB, 4Mb Ram and 4GB CF card attached to 4xEIDE. Later I will get Indivision for it and will attach it to my 32" LCD monitor :) and show it to my friends... .
I also need to make it "white again"... it is quite yellow.
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Sounds like a good plan, especially the part about sending it to Acill for a recap. :)
You might want to take a look at the BetterWB pack, as well. It's what I would use if I was running a lower-spec/non-3.9 Amiga: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm
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Sounds like a good plan, especially the part about sending it to Acill for a recap. :)
You might want to take a look at the BetterWB pack, as well. It's what I would use if I was running a lower-spec/non-3.9 Amiga: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm
It is quite nice "patch" for AOS3.1, but I don't see change in icons? I like MagicWB icon set :).
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It is quite nice "patch" for AOS3.1, but I don't see change in icons? I like MagicWB icon set :).
I meant "in addition to MagicWB". :) I'm pretty fond of them, as well, for lower spec systems. Ah, nostalgia! ;)
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Still waiting to get the motherboard back from a recap from Acill, but here are the final exterior results. I'm extremely happy with the case and the lighter color keys, but I messed up with the darker keys by leaving them in the peroxide too long. They now have an uneven bleached look to them.
That being said, I much prefer it like it is now compared to how it was! Next time I will handle the darker keys a bit more carefully. This is 4 days in a tub with about $12 worth of off-the-shelf 3% peroxide. The keys were in for longer.
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Nice. I also got my case cleaned and looks much better (almost as new). Only problem I have are few keys that are still yellow. Maybe I should try to keep them longer?
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Nice. I also got my case cleaned and looks much better (almost as new). Only problem I have are few keys that are still yellow. Maybe I should try to keep them longer?
Looks great!
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Got my 1200 board back from Acill late last week and finally put it back together. Installed the CF Card adapter w/backplate from Amigakit along with Kickstart 3.1 ROMs. I used a bunch of hot glue to keep teh CF card bracket in place. Also had to do a bit of solder work on the LED board - the floppy LED was intermittent. Boots to floppy great!
Although I thought the RAM expansion had 8MB RAM it does seem to be a 4MB SIMM. If I move the jumper to 8MB the system will not boot.
I also moved the RTC chip from the clockport adapter to the RAM expansion, installed a new CR2032 battery, but have not yet tested the clock.
Now I just need to work on getting it setup to boot from the CF card I purchased. Then I want to get WHDLoad working, which I've never done before. If anyone has any specific pointers or walkthroughs they can point me to please do.
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Awesome! I'm still trying to locate an A1200. Almost thought I stumbled on one but it was a dead end.
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Looking great!! As far as your RAM goes, do you have anything in the PCMCIA slot? I seem to remember some issues if you have more than 4MB and PCMCIA in use?
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Looking great!! As far as your RAM goes, do you have anything in the PCMCIA slot? I seem to remember some issues if you have more than 4MB and PCMCIA in use?
No, nothing in there. The card was originally set to 4MB but I looked at the SIMM and thought it was 8MB, thinking perhaps the previous owner used a PCMCIA card and set it to 4MB. I think the SIMM is simply a 4MB SIMM.
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Do you know what sized simm it uses? I may have a few 8MB ones here not being used. None of my boards use them if I still have them. LEt me know and I will look. If I find any you are welcome to them.
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Hey -
I would appreciate it, but don't kill yourself over it!
The manual says this:
If you or your dealer are purchasing a SIMM from a source
other than MicroBotics, Inc., you must be certain to get the
correct type. MBX 1200z does NOT use the common, 8-bit
SIMM as found in the Macintosh marketplace. Rather it
uses the same sort of SIMM as used in the Amiga 4000.
This is a 72-pin, 32-bit wide SIMM. MBX 1200z needs only
an 80ns SIMM in order to operate at zero wait states. You
can use a 70 or 60ns SIMM but these may cost more for no
additional benefit. The following is a list of Micron part
numbers for the correct SIMM. You can use the equivalent
parts from any good quality manufacturer.
MBX 1200z SIMM SPECIFICATION; 80ns, 72-pin %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8220;widebody%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8221;
SIMM organized N-megabytes x 32 bits. For example,
Micron MT8D25632 (one megabyte); MT16D51232 (two
megabytes); MT8D132 (four megabytes); and MT16D232
(eight megabytes).
Thanks!
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Then I want to get WHDLoad working, which I've never done before. If anyone has any specific pointers or walkthroughs they can point me to please do.
WHDLoad installation is pretty much self-explanatory. Download WHDLoad_usr_small.lha (http://whdload.de/whdload/WHDLoad_usr_small.lha) from the official site and install it, then install some games that use it. You'll get more into the "nuts & bolts" of the thing when you need to start configuring it for a specific screenmode, or to disable certain functions (if you have an MMU, or an '040 or '060 accelerator, for example), but a lot of stuff will work right out of the box. And for stuff that doesn't is where you'll need to go in and muck around with the tooltypes and config file options. There's a good guide on those here:
http://whdload.de/docs/en/opt.html
Have fun! :)