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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: majsta on May 04, 2016, 06:39:35 PM
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Hi :)
As you probably know I m designing now Vampire 1200 as a next and logical step in apollo-team development. Trick is that A1200 connectors are hard to find. We have some but that's not enough since demand will be high. Last few days I m researching as much I can and sending bunch of mails to various manufacturers, shops, re-sellers in fact to anyone who is somehow connected to edge connectors I need. What I would like to have is more information's. Part numbers of edge connector used on some A1200 accelerators, who used them, who build them, where did they found it. Any kind of drawings, pictures that can provide more information's. Anything is good. So far I have one part number FCN-225J150-G/A and some sullins drawings.
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*cough cough* Jens *cough cough* :lol:
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Jens is obvious source, but I have doubt that Jens is not interested.
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Didn't kipper2k manufacture a bunch of them??
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@hese7
He have some but not in quantity we need here.
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Worst case scenario, determine what it would cost to do a manufacture run and post a gofundme here. I, for one, would be willing to chip in some since I have at least three A1200s that would love Vampires.
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@hese7
He have some but not in quantity we need here.
Thoughts :
Is it worth discussing his plans for A1200 reloaded ?
Since edge connectors are getting hard to come by would it make sense to offer some alternative connector on reloaded boards that is easy to obtain?
Do you think Jens wants to keep a monopoly or is any form of collaboration completely out of the question?
Nick
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Do you think Jens wants to keep a monopoly or is any form of collaboration completely out of the question?
On the Apollo-core board, before it was wiped and started from scratch, "Team Apollo" members a few times mentioned "the enemy" (yes, like that), someone who they consider competition. Who can you think of that qualify for such kind words?
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Trick is that A1200 connectors are hard to find.
Have you tried to get a quote for a custom connector from SullinsCorp? They offer typical geometry connectors with custom number of contacts. Fortunately Amiga 1200 expansion connector matches their off-the-shelf designs.
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Might I suggest for development purposes only , constructing a gender changer using two working connectors? - This way you could work with multiple board revisions without needing to solder on a new connector for each one.
This probably wouldnt be suitable for the final design but would allow you to continue working while trying to source a supplier.
Nick
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I could ask some of the engineering teams here at Intel where they get the connectors we use. It shouldnt be hard to locate them. They all seem to be a standard edge connector. The contacts can be modified to fit the length of the A1200 easy enough if you find a source that is longer.
If I get some, just remember me when the A4000 compatible version comes out! :)
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@hese7
He have some but not in quantity we need here.
But why can't he order more? He has the drawings for manufacturing and connection to the factory from where he ordered them last time.
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It is NOS so very limited supply. By creating new ones is not an option for now, or maybe it is if we find right manufacturer.
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This company can provide connectors at a very good price. Its who we use for custom projects.
http://www.sullinscorp.com
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This company can provide connectors at a very good price. Its who we use for custom projects.
http://www.sullinscorp.com
i think kipper looked into sullins, and the quote was something like $24ea. they are looking for a cheaper supplier i think.
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i think kipper looked into sullins, and the quote was something like $24ea. they are looking for a cheaper supplier i think.
Well, you kinda get what you pay for. I'd still look into them. They may cut a deal if its something they stock or can easily adapt.
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If not Jens then try to get Kipper2k to make more. I understood that he had them designed and manufactured, not that he found a place to buy some NOS. So they should be able to make more... If neither of these two, then you may have to find a manufacturer to redesign and make them yourself.
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One man by pure accident wrote somewhere that he made his connectors in Taiwan, that was enough for me and after 3 days of searching I found company in Taiwan who do cross reference and produce Fujitsu parts we need. Eh again my persistence :) After all is done I ll provide more information's. Maybe there will be more people interested to start their own Amiga 1200 projects and having those connectors could bring some new interesting projects from other people.
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That sounds promising, I got need for several connectors myself..
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Just noticed this Kipper2k A600 board I just repaired for someone uses the Sullins edge connectors. May still be worth looking into. Its a very similar connector.
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So both the A500 and A1200 cards are in the pipeline?
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look here:
http://www.brokerforum.com/components-parts/popular-electronic-parts-FCN--225J150--G%2FA-c-en.jsa
http://www.odysseyelectronics.com/iframesearch.aspx?user=odys&part=FCN-225J150-G%2FA&Submit1=Start+Search
http://www.sierraic.com/FCN225J150GA
http://www.ic72.com/search.html?ictype=1&ic1=FCN-225J150-G%2FA&ic3=&wzid=
Good luck :laughing:
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Guys Acill, Mathew Leaman (Amigakit) and I had a conversation about this at dinner @ Amiwest. Acill sourced out a large supply of reasonably priced connectors. I know Acill followed up on it with Amigakit but im not sure the current status.
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Guys Acill, Mathew Leaman (Amigakit) and I had a conversation about this at dinner @ Amiwest. Acill sourced out a large supply of reasonably priced connectors. I know Acill followed up on it with Amigakit but im not sure the current status.
My 0.02 cents worth - you will not get a cheaper connector than Sullins without going direct to China, or maybe India.
It's a custom gold plated edge connector with hundreds of connections. This isn't cheap even at volume. Not outside of the Orient.
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Nah after all to conclude, it is only how some company plays a game. Difference is that Sullins will give you higher price of the connectors but lower tooling fee. In China you got opposite so at the end you have the same price in terms of low quantity numbers we have here.
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Majsta we use Sullins. They are the best you will find. If you are going to build an A1200 accelerator and want a reliable connector this is who you need to use. The only option will be to reflect the price you have to pay per connector in the end unit price. Its worth it, trust me.
If you go with some Chinese manufacturer you may get some tin junk for a lot less, but the reliability of the main connection of the accelerator and everything on it is at risk. Why go that why?
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If you go with some Chinese manufacturer you may get some tin junk for a lot less, but the reliability of the main connection of the accelerator and everything on it is at risk. Why go that why?
Because, believe it or not, some Oriental manufacturers produce better quality at lower cost than American ones. And Chinese ones will deliver to your door, free. Americans won't ever do that. The Chinese government pays the cost of all export deliveries (they also own the shipping and transportation companies, and electricity is considered a fundamental human right in China).
I guess some people can't accept these facts, and it is true that 90s Amiga PSUs made in China (OK, Hong Kong, same difference nowadays pretty much) used triodes extensively, but that was a quarter of a century ago.
The reason I suggest India is because their semiconductor industry has also been radically shifted upwards in build quality, but being smaller and mostly English speaking, it is rather easier to navigate.
I am still using a 90s Indian PSU. It's bulletproof, light, and can operate far outside the temperature restrictions of an equivalent American unit. Because most Indians don't have air conditioning. :)
You would have to be an idiot not to check, and I don't think you are an idiot, Majesta.
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Because, believe it or not, some Oriental manufacturers produce better quality at lower cost than American ones. And Chinese ones will deliver to your door, free. Americans won't ever do that. The Chinese government pays the cost of all export deliveries (they also own the shipping and transportation companies, and electricity is considered a fundamental human right in China).
I guess some people can't accept these facts, and it is true that 90s Amiga PSUs made in China (OK, Hong Kong, same difference nowadays pretty much) used triodes extensively, but that was a quarter of a century ago.
The reason I suggest India is because their semiconductor industry has also been radically shifted upwards in build quality, but being smaller and mostly English speaking, it is rather easier to navigate.
I am still using a 90s Indian PSU. It's bulletproof, light, and can operate far outside the temperature restrictions of an equivalent American unit. Because most Indians don't have air conditioning. :)
You would have to be an idiot not to check, and I don't think you are an idiot, Majesta.
Fair point, but cheaper isnt going to do that. If you ask for cheap you will get cheap.
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Fair point, but cheaper isnt going to do that. If you ask for cheap you will get cheap.
Hmmm... value for money. Some of it is cheap "tat", some of it is quality gear at a very low price, and you don't really know until you have a sample in your hand to study.
Far riskier without building up a relationship with the supplier first, but if Sullins ain't got the capacity, they can't have the business anyway.
Supply and demand, Chief. Huawei did not get to be number one without producing damn good products at very low prices. In quantity, mostly to customers within China.
India is heading that way, and the smart money is going in there now. They have the capacity. They have the will to make and sell.
I'm not saying I LIKE the way either country operates in the tech industries. I am simply suggesting them as viable sources, today, tomorrow, whenever. Sometimes, there just are no "good" choices, and you have to pick the least "evil".
There are honest players all over, folks. You got to reach out for good. It don't come knocking on your door by itself. That's usually trouble, in my experience anyway. Everybody gets that too.
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i'd easily suck down dropping a 20 on a connector if I knew that was the deal. unfortunately that's my data sample set of one. not really reflective of the community at large. but hey.
I wish you guys luck. my A1200's await with baited breath.
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Nah after all to conclude, it is only how some company plays a game. Difference is that Sullins will give you higher price of the connectors but lower tooling fee. In China you got opposite so at the end you have the same price in terms of low quantity numbers we have here.
@Majsta, was this not resolved a while ago already? (I had the impression Kipper2k found a good source some time ago.) Have you received any samples from the chosen supplier to determine quality?
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@Majsta, was this not resolved a while ago already? (I had the impression Kipper2k found a good source some time ago.) Have you received any samples from the chosen supplier to determine quality?
The last few things I got in from Kipper has Sullins printed on them. If you can get a sample from a Chinese or Taiwanese company I say go for it, but if your looking at only getting say 100 at a time and they offer you them at under $10 each, no way are they going to be good quality.
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I guess if you ask around enough for enough free samples, eventually you'll get enough quality ones that you can pay Sullins if you want for the remainder.
Alternatively...
http://www.esuppliersindia.com/products/edge-connector.html
https://www.tradeindia.com/manufacturers/edge-connector.html
Then you'll have got them all half price. :hammer:
Acquaintance did that with plastic filaments samples. He ended up with over 2 tonnes of the stuff. At £20 a kilo, nice business if you can get it. £40K for clicking on the internet, in worth of goods, anyway.
You don't give out part numbers. You give out specs, dimensions, materials. If they want to meet it, let them bust their guts trying.
What you really want is a low volume manufacturer. This is the Indian dimension. They can do that.
I can't hunt for you on this, but there are 800 million Indians. Some of them make edge connectors.
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There are even over 1.3 billion Indians now :lol:
means even more can do the connectors. JK
I think the biggest problem with the Vampires is the waitlist.
I once asked KEL to send me some samples as I needed to adapt a CS MKI to fit in an eagle tower for a research project, and I got 10 samples, just like that.
even if one can source 1000 of the connectors it will take over a year to make them all at the current production rate.
Still waiting for my Vampire 600 :(
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The last few things I got in from Kipper has Sullins printed on them. If you can get a sample from a Chinese or Taiwanese company I say go for it, but if your looking at only getting say 100 at a time and they offer you them at under $10 each, no way are they going to be good quality.
It is totally random what the build quality of any supplier is. It depends on their production method and attention to perfecting a production run.
What you need is an unbiased quality control of sample assessment.
Cost is an indicator of quality, but the real proof is measurement. How thick is the gold plate? How consistent is the build? How reliable are the tolerances? Cost isn't just based on raw material cost. Some outfits in that part of the world make with recycled ingredients. If you effectively have your own gold mine for the plating process, that helps enormously. Likewise, recycling ABS for the plastic carrier. You can cut unit costs to the bone that way. In a lot of courntries you even qualify for a government subsidy because you are earning them carbon credits. Claiming it can be very awkward though.
It's a jungle, the supply chain. I'll agree with you there.
But, if you get a manufacturer with spare capacity of a LARGER, longer adaptor size, that can be cut down precisely, that is one way around. Likewise, adapting two smaller adaptors.
You got to be flexible in what you can use, but absolutely cast iron with regards to what you accept as quality stock. I'm right with you on that last point, Chief.
Finding perfect with one supplier is unlikely. You might end up buying two smaller units from different suppliers. That would mean checking BOTH for build quality and tolerances. It sounds easier but it still has issues that you have to address and get the right answers to get a reliable, dependable circuit.
And of course, if the free samples are a bit skimpy on the gold plate, you can always try extra plating them. You won't save every single one probably, but that can be worth doing too. Just don't overdo it, it's a very subtle process to manage properly. That's what Sullins are really charging for - consistency of plate.