Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: jackflash on April 03, 2016, 01:00:25 PM
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Has anybody thought about using the Raspberry Pi as an Amiga 500 accelerator/expansion board?
I think this could be used but with the board designed to plug directly into the 68k socket and running a 68k emulator on the Pi https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-development-kit/
You could use the other features on the board such as Video output for RTG
I'm not an electrical engineer or programmer so it's out of my league
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Has anybody thought about using the Raspberry Pi as an Amiga 500 accelerator/expansion board?
I think this could be used but with the board designed to plug directly into the 68k socket and running a 68k emulator on the Pi https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-development-kit/
You could use the other features on the board such as Video output for RTG
I'm not an electrical engineer or programmer so it's out of my league
The thought has struck me - the problem is that I doubt the Pi would be able to boot fast enough to actually be a usable system as a proper emulator.
The easy way would be to build an interface from the Amiga to something like a Zero, and then write an API on the Pi for running computing tasks for the Amiga.
That way, you could write datatypes, libraries and such, which would then connect to the Pi, run the code and return the result.
On the other hand, I doubt that it would be worth the effort - there is only so much to gain from such a setup.
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Or you can use it with UAE on it and hide it in an A500 getting better results?
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The Raspberry Pi doesn't have enough pins, nor the speed to react to those pins, to replace an m68000 processor. You'll just have to wait for the Vampire 500 for that.
On the other hand, there's no good reason a Raspberry Pi couldn't be used to provide an older Amiga with ethernet and storage, and perhaps some other services. With 17 or so GPIO, it wouldn't be ideal to use a Pi as a Zorro expansion because it'd take a bit of circuitry to multiplex the address and data busses for the GPIO, but it's possible.
What's within the realm of possibility with just a handful of wires is a parallel port to Raspberry Pi connection for ethernet and storage. One would just have to adapt some of the drivers which already exist in Aminet to the Pi.
I've used Pis and other small computers (PogoPlugs, Beaglebones) to speed up compiling on retrocomputers. Right now a faster machine is helping my m68060 Amiga 1200 compile binary packages for NetBSD. If we had newer toolchain tools for AmigaDOS, some of this might be applicable.
https://hackaday.io/project/218-speed-up-pkgsrc-on-retrocomputers (https://hackaday.io/project/218-speed-up-pkgsrc-on-retrocomputers)
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I was thinking about if you could route a Pi3 thru a vampire and be able to use 3.9 and Linux at the same time.
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I've always dreamed of an x86 CPU running nothing but a 68k emulator sitting on a CPU accelerator board that appears to the Amiga as a real 68k.
It's far beyond my capabilities though so I sit in hope that one day a genius will have the same idea and make one. :)
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I was thinking about if you could route a Pi3 thru a vampire and be able to use 3.9 and Linux at the same time.
You can have 3.9 and Linux at the same time if the Pi isn't connected to the a500 at all.
Or you could run Linux on the a500.
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Linux on a 68k? Old Linux is of no interest to me, something a bit faster and more productive is what I had in mind.
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An obvious problem is voltage differences, the Amiga using 5V and the Pi using 3.3V, but that can be worked around. A general interface adapter that plugs between Amiga parallel port and RPi, offering a PLIP-like service (for example like PlipBox, only connected to a bridge interface on the Pi) on which you can run netfilesystem, mounting directories etc on the Pi. A bonus could behaving console on the Pi on the serial port :)
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The Raspberry Pi doesn't have enough pins, nor the speed to react to those pins, to replace an m68000 processor. You'll just have to wait for the Vampire 500 for that.
On the other hand, there's no good reason a Raspberry Pi couldn't be used to provide an older Amiga with ethernet and storage, and perhaps some other services. With 17 or so GPIO, it wouldn't be ideal to use a Pi as a Zorro expansion because it'd take a bit of circuitry to multiplex the address and data busses for the GPIO, but it's possible.
What's within the realm of possibility with just a handful of wires is a parallel port to Raspberry Pi connection for ethernet and storage. One would just have to adapt some of the drivers which already exist in Aminet to the Pi.
I've used Pis and other small computers (PogoPlugs, Beaglebones) to speed up compiling on retrocomputers. Right now a faster machine is helping my m68060 Amiga 1200 compile binary packages for NetBSD. If we had newer toolchain tools for AmigaDOS, some of this might be applicable.
https://hackaday.io/project/218-speed-up-pkgsrc-on-retrocomputers (https://hackaday.io/project/218-speed-up-pkgsrc-on-retrocomputers)
Correct. I'd probably use an ARM chip or a CPLD.
In this game, you pretty much have to own a $400 Oscilloscope, have a circuit board drawing program like Diptrace, be able to read a schematic, know basic electronics and know voltages. On top of that, you have to know how to program to interface with that port which is another ballgame.
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I would just use a null modem connection. It is slow but pretty inexpensive to add to the Pi an RS-232 port.
On the software side, I would use Happiga and either a Remote Desktop Client and XRD on linux, or just Siamese 2.5.
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Linux on a 68k? Old Linux is of no interest to me, something a bit faster and more productive is what I had in mind.
Port a modern Linux to 68k and run it on Vampire.
Rpi isn't particularly fast and connecting it to an a500 would not make it better.
An Arm chip on an a500 expansion is slightly more interesting, although it would have no software so a vampire is much better.
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Port a modern Linux to 68k and run it on Vampire.
Rpi isn't particularly fast and connecting it to an a500 would not make it better.
An Arm chip on an a500 expansion is slightly more interesting, although it would have no software so a vampire is much better.
Modern Linux already runs on m68k, the problem is that Apollo Core is not a supported architecture, and most likely never will be. Anyways, a rPi runs in circles around Apollo core, so I don't see your point.
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Anyways, a rPi runs in circles around Apollo core, so I don't see your point.
Use an rPi then, but it makes zero sense trying to combine it with an a500. What are you going to do hook the a500 up with rs232? That sounds modern (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/siamese).
You could use an Ethernet card on your a500, but you're still not really integrating the two together. You've just created a LAN.
An RDP server for Amiga would be interesting as you could use the rPi for video output, but you could also use a PC. You could also run an X server on the a500 and connect the rPi to it, so you can output Linux software to 4 colour ECS. It might be fun for a few minutes, although it will be really slow (even slower if you run 8 or 16 colour). At least the software for that has been around for 20 years already.
Hopefully as some point Apollo will wake up and support the 060 MMU so you can use Linux too (well you can use Linux without an MMU but some things don't work https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/nommu-mmap.txt)
I hope that eventually Vampire supports Wifi somehow.
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guys, it can be done. but it's slow as you would have to use the a500 serial port that is limited to 19200 bps speeds. basicly you set up ppp connection on the rpi you would need a USB2Serial cable and a null modem cable then set up a ppp between them.
might be a youtube on it...
*ADDED*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEonOb5SkEg
http://jmp.no/blog/cheap-overkill-amiga-network-adapter
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67150
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Was thinking of something a bit more like Amikit's "Alice". To be able to go back and forth without switching OS.
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Was thinking of something a bit more like Amikit's "Alice". To be able to go back and forth without switching OS.
Run an emulator like Alice on the rPi then. Maybe you could convince amikit to get it ported. Something like Siamese RTG over RS232 is the only way you'd get anywhere near close, good luck getting someone to write that code (if you can track down the Siamese source code then you may stand a chance).
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Maybe, in the future some expansion connector on the vampire. Won't hold my breath.
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Maybe, in the future some expansion connector on the vampire. Won't hold my breath.
I think the best you could hope for is Ethernet. I'm surprised nobody has made one for the a500 tbh.
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Plipbox already does this on the parallel port, the arduino also can handle the signal voltage of the Amiga.
The Vampires could really benefit from a simple USB host controller hooked to the FPGA, like the MIST has.
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I just started looking into this, and found...
https://www.abelectronics.co.uk/p/54/IO-Pi-Plus?CatName=0&c=0
You can stack 4 32 bit I/O lines for 128 total. More than enough for every pin on a ZorroII card monitor.
The only question is will they be fast enough?
We would also probably need some kind of ROM to make it autoconfig.
Ideally, since we can emulate a whole Amiga on a Pi, we would just emulate just the peripherals that there are already drivers for. To the Amiga it would be talking to things it already knows. The Pi would do the work of telling the Amiga what it wants to hear.
I wouldn't bother with acceleration. I think we would be taxing the Pi enough trying to make it RAM, mass storage, and networking.
These are fairly generic needs for any system and I don't know how well Amiga OS support multi monitors. We're essentially looking for an RPi Bridgeboard.
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What irks me is that a quad core 1.2Ghz ARM Pi3 with 1GB ram, 6 USB ports, serial I/O, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, microSD slot, Ethernet and HDMI output and can run Kodi costs $35 but we can't create a 100Mhz Amiga for less than $500....
Are you kidding me?
$35 and it's now my home web and email server... Well, my kit was $79 with a 32GB microSD card, case and wireless USB keypad/touchpad... But seriously...wtf!!!
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I use mine as a network level ad blocker.
https://pi-hole.net/
Installed it and basically forgot about it top stuff!
N
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. To the Amiga it would be talking to things it already knows. The Pi would do the work of telling the Amiga what it wants to hear.
I wouldn't bother with acceleration. I think we would be taxing the Pi enough trying to make it RAM, mass storage, and networking.
These are fairly generic needs for any system and I don't know how well Amiga OS support multi monitors. We're essentially looking for an RPi Bridgeboard.
A BridgeBoard is the answer but is it possible?
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A BridgeBoard is the answer but is it possible?
I don't have the technical know-how to do this - but i am reminded of the nay-sayers regarding Majsta's FPGA pursuits. They said it couldn't be done - yet he persevered and he proved them wrong. Someone who has the desire , enough time , money and will power to give this a shot!
Nick
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I don't have the technical know-how to do this - but i am reminded of the nay-sayers regarding Majsta's FPGA pursuits. They said it couldn't be done - yet he persevered and he proved them wrong. Someone who has the desire , enough time , money and will power to give this a shot!
Who said it couldn't be done? I don't know anyone that he has proved wrong.
Using a raspberry pi to respond to 68000 bus cycles using gpio is pretty crazy. I won't say it can't be done, but any result will probably not work very well. Those IO Pi Plus 32 channels are connected to i2c, I don't think desire/time/money/will power will cut it. You could stick a bridge between the amiga and the pi, which may as well be Ethernet. It would be pretty cheap to make an a500 PIO Ethernet adapter, a DMA one would be preferable and likely more costly.
What irks me is that a quad core 1.2Ghz ARM Pi3 with 1GB ram, 6 USB ports, serial I/O, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, microSD slot, Ethernet and HDMI output and can run Kodi costs $35 but we can't create a 100Mhz Amiga for less than $500....
Are you kidding me?
If you could create an amiga that was as cheap to manufacture as a raspberry pi and would also sell the five million the raspberry pi has sold. Then you could get one for $35 dollars. The raspberry pi is just an existing chip put on a board though, so the development cost was low. Therefore you'd need to figure out how to get someone to design all the chips and masks for free.
Give me a billion dollars and I'll build you a 1ghz $35 dollar amiga which would be the same as a PI but feature 68060 and SAGA. If you want an actual computer you may want pci express and possibly pci/zorro (although those may be better suited as external bridges).