Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: candyman on March 01, 2016, 09:28:29 PM
-
I was thinking in what measure the (probable) launch of the V1200 (at - can we guess? - about €200) could change the market.
Vintage B1230 boards (or uquivalent) that now go for €250 or B1260 for €750 on eBay/AmiBay according to you will maintain their value (as true 680x0 hardware) or people's demand (and their market value) will fall down?
Now you have to pay about €1500 to obtain the top A1200 performance with B/PPC+BV (and you get a 20 years old hardware): what will happen when a brand new card will offer you even better performances at a fraction of the price?
-
I was thinking in what measure the (probable) launch of the V1200 (at - can we guess? - about €200) could change the market.
Vintage B1230 boards (or uquivalent) that now go for €250 or B1260 for €750 on eBay/AmiBay according to you will maintain their value (as true 680x0 hardware) or people's demand (and their market value) will fall down?
Now you have to pay about €1500 to obtain the top A1200 performance with B/PPC+BV (and you get a 20 years old hardware): what will happen when a brand new card will offer you even better performances at a fraction of the price?
I collect Amigas. Part of the thrill for me is picking up hardware that I could not afford back in the day. As a result I will not put a Vampire in any of my main Amigas. They will all remain "classic". For my sake I hope the floor falls out on these crazy Ebay prices due to the availability of the Vampire.
I will however purchase an A1200 vampire if they ever materialize. That will be used to create a 68K AROS beast.
-
Let's turn your question in another way... how much will you spend on a Vampire accelerator ?
a) 150€ for a 150 MIPS one
b) 300€ for a 250 MIPS one
c) 600€ for a 500 MIPS one
d) 1000€ for a 800 MIPS one
-
Now you have to pay about €1500 to obtain the top A1200 performance with B/PPC+BV (and you get a 20 years old hardware
Yesterday there was sold just BPPC card for € 1500... Insane I know, but its reality of these days...
I have ready one A600 and one A1200 for Vampires and hoping Vampires will change the prices of phase stuff back to normal.
-
The (potential) Vampire for A1200 is a much more intricate engineering challenge than the A600.
Basic formula for hardware pricing is BoM x 3. And I am happy to pay $500-600.
-
@agami
500-600€ is a insane price even for a vampire.
-
I doubt the price of original Blizzard's and Apollo's and the like will fall because at the end of the day it's rare hardware that will never be made again. Let's face it, this hardware just swaps hands all the time anyway so the price doesn't really matter so much.
The Vampire I'm sure will attract new users, or old ex-users who until now could not afford a high spec Amiga. Exciting times lie ahead I do believe.
-
I doubt the price of original Blizzard's and Apollo's and the like will fall because at the end of the day it's rare hardware that will never be made again. Let's face it, this hardware just swaps hands all the time anyway so the price doesn't really matter so much.
The Vampire I'm sure will attract new users, or old ex-users who until now could not afford a high spec Amiga. Exciting times lie ahead I do believe.
Yes its rare hardware and if someone was daring enough and looked into it you could get any card cloned. There are cloning services out there and "ic break". With just a small run of 400 cards you could easily change things.
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=pcba+cloning
-
Yes its rare hardware and if someone was daring enough and looked into it you could get any card cloned. There are cloning services out there and "ic break". With just a small run of 400 cards you could easily change things.
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=pcba+cloning
Which one? The A600 or the Vampire?
I'm guessing the A600 is simple enough with all the expired patents that it wouldn't take much to clone.
The Vampire? It's all in the firmware of the FPGA. A clone wouldn't be nearly as useful as a re-creation using an ASIC in place of the FPGA anyway: Something that's already being planned by the Apollo team with the code to do it with anyway.
-edit-
Oh, the Blizzard PPC. It's not much of a performer among PPC boards. If you want to run OS 4 there are cheaper ways to do it. Frankly, the clone would cost as much as a new machine anyway. It's a kludgey design to start with. The 68060 or 68040 for the backward compatibility would make the whole thing too expensive to use! You'd need an FPGA to make the 68k side cost effective and with the Vampire around, you can make a 68k that can run faster than a PPC can emulate anyway!
-
Which one? The A600 or the Vampire?
I'm guessing the A600 is simple enough with all the expired patents that it wouldn't take much to clone.
The Vampire? It's all in the firmware of the FPGA. A clone wouldn't be nearly as useful as a re-creation using an ASIC in place of the FPGA anyway: Something that's already being planned by the Apollo team with the code to do it with anyway.
I would always be against cloning something that is currently on sale with exception to 1 bit of hardware.
Clone the PPC boards and other old hardware that has not been sold for years YES.
They dont just clone they can add things. So you could clone a PPC board and take away the scsi and add sata or usb. Now theres a thought ;)
-
I collect Amigas. Part of the thrill for me is picking up hardware that I could not afford back in the day. As a result I will not put a Vampire in any of my main Amigas. They will all remain "classic". For my sake I hope the floor falls out on these crazy Ebay prices due to the availability of the Vampire.
+1
I'll NEVER replace a true 060 accelerator for a Vampire, yep, it's probably faster; but if I want a faster machine I'll go for a different approach, emulation or OS swapping.
Having said that, no new Amiga piece of hardware can be over 150€, maybe 200€.
-
@jimmyboy
I realized what you meant while you were typing your reply and edited my post. PPC isn't as cost effective as it was back in the day...
-
After ive been Vamporized! I never go back to these %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty accels again! Vampire making amiga fun again!
Its not just speed. You get hdmi, sdcard, and other functionality that is evolving by time. You are never stuck what it can do.
The small footprint and no fans need to spin to keeping it cool :)
-
I already have pretty darn fast and cheap AROS systems - why would I want Vampire for AROS?
-
for me, im getting back into amigas. I picked up a 1200 , and I want to get an accelerator or it. I am trying to hold off to see when a new one will come out for the a1200. fpga strikes a cord with me. because of the price and speed.
I just picked this up to play games, etc. nothing special. and the joy of owning an amiga again.
i still need to get a network card so i can move files over easily, that is my biggest challenge right now. that's why mine is sitting there collecting dust for now.
one piece at a time.
-
I already have pretty darn fast and cheap AROS systems - why would I want Vampire for AROS?
i dont know. maybe for extended funtionality along with greater speed and backward compatibility on a dedicated device without emulation..
-
I already have pretty darn fast and cheap AROS systems - why would I want Vampire for AROS?
because it is cool to have a real NG amiga :)
-
I would always be against cloning something that is currently on sale with exception to 1 bit of hardware.
Clone the PPC boards and other old hardware that has not been sold for years YES.
They dont just clone they can add things. So you could clone a PPC board and take away the scsi and add sata or usb. Now theres a thought ;)
UWscsi on the cyberstorm ppc and MKIII rocks at around 35MB/s with real drives, slightly less with ssd/cf etc. adding sata would be a monumental task,since your interfacing with old 68K/ppc
-
+1
I'll NEVER replace a true 060 accelerator for a Vampire, yep, it's probably faster; but if I want a faster machine I'll go for a different approach, emulation or OS swapping.
Having said that, no new Amiga piece of hardware can be over 150€, maybe 200€.
I agree with not selling my accelerators, while i do have a vampire and it is fast, i will never sell my bliz 030 or 060,csppc,MKIII. These accelerators may be slower but they run anything and everything amiga.
Vampire still has no mmu/fpu but the fpu is planned.
You are a purist on 060 accelerators but why would u emulate stuff when u can have real hardware for your amiga(vampire), this makes no sense.
-
@agami
500-600€ is a insane price even for a vampire.
Dollars, not Euros. I think it works out to be 330-400 Euros.
-
You are a purist on 060 accelerators but why would u emulate stuff when u can have real hardware for your amiga(vampire), this makes no sense.
I simply love Motorola processors, it's just a feeling or amood about vintage hardware like this. The Vampire has bring such "unreal" speeds to the Amiga world (and promises even higher ones!) that I cannot see as a real part of the machine, that makes easy for me to think better in emulation...and I'm not a fan of it, I've never ever run an emulated OS3.9 with P96!
Call me purist, mostly I'm one of them :)
...and after all, I'll probably get one of them for my A600 :drink:
-
You are a purist on 060 accelerators but why would u emulate stuff when u can have real hardware for your amiga(vampire), this makes no sense.
Space constraints ?