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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Robbie on November 10, 2015, 08:06:19 AM

Title: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Robbie on November 10, 2015, 08:06:19 AM
Looks like Jens has squeezed even more speed out of his '030 accelerators. Limited edition....

https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/ACA12xx.html

Didn't know he was working on these. I'm still hoping (in vain) for a surprise ACA2000 :)
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Cosmos Amiga on November 10, 2015, 09:48:51 AM
359,94 euros for the 55 Mhz version ??

Remember : he have all the Apollo 1260/3060/4060 schematics who can save the Amiga Classics, but he prefere to push down our favorite machine with 020/030...
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Robbie on November 10, 2015, 10:25:02 AM
Yeah, it's a little bit steep! I didn't realise he had those schematics, but then again I don't know about the availability of the 040/060 chips and their prices. I bought the 40mhz 030 version earlier in the year and while it's quite quick, I think everyone would prefer something faster.

Fingers crossed for these FPGA accelerators.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Djole on November 10, 2015, 12:09:56 PM
Didn't overclocking remove warranty ? heheh
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Gulliver on November 10, 2015, 01:46:19 PM
At that price range, getting a Blizzard from Ebay now sounds much more reasonable.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: nicholas on November 10, 2015, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: Cosmos;799004
359,94 euros for the 55 Mhz version ??

Remember : he have all the Apollo 1260/3060/4060 schematics who can save the Amiga Classics, but he prefere to push down our favorite machine with 020/030...


Screw those people. Majsta is the saviour of the Amiga community! :)
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: kolla on November 10, 2015, 03:16:12 PM
I would get this if there was an option with 68882 as well, would love to replace the old Blizzard 1230III in one of my Linux/m68k systems. But yes, the price is just bit too much :(
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Marcin1982 on November 10, 2015, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Robbie;799002
Looks like Jens has squeezed even more speed out of his '030 accelerators. Limited edition....

https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/ACA12xx.html

Didn't know he was working on these. I'm still hoping (in vain) for a surprise ACA2000 :)




350 EU for 030 :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

no comment
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: nicholas on November 10, 2015, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: Marcin1982;799019
350 EU for 030 :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

no comment


I sold my Blizzard PPC/040 for less than that lol
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: klx300r on November 10, 2015, 05:09:00 PM
waiting for my ACA1000 that's gonna give my A1k as I'm more than covered with 030 & 060's in both my 1200s.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Rob on November 10, 2015, 07:42:08 PM
Quote from: nicholas;799024
I sold my Blizzard PPC/040 for less than that lol


Same here.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 10, 2015, 09:12:15 PM
Quote from: nicholas;799024
I sold my Blizzard PPC/040 for less than that lol

I would pay up to $1000 USD for a good '060 board for my 2000.  But some things you can't get for love nor money.  :(
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: apsturk on November 10, 2015, 09:30:05 PM
I just ordered one. I will let people know what I find with it when it gets in
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: kickstart on November 10, 2015, 09:58:48 PM
Quote from: nicholas;799015
Screw those people. Majsta is the saviour of the Amiga community! :)


Majsta work is really cool but just a600 and a a500 prototype... for a1200 nothing.

PS: The price of this 030 card is a joke?
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: nicholas on November 10, 2015, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;799047
I would pay up to $1000 USD for a good '060 board for my 2000.  But some things you can't get for love nor money.  :(


This close enough? ;)

https://youtu.be/9ncJs87hDkg
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: nicholas on November 10, 2015, 10:13:17 PM
Quote from: kickstart;799050
Majsta work is really cool but just a600 and a a500 prototype... for a1200 nothing.


I'm hoping for a bog box version for my A3000 too at some point. I'm sure an A1200 version will come long before that though.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 10, 2015, 10:23:34 PM
Quote from: nicholas;799054
This close enough? ;)

https://youtu.be/9ncJs87hDkg

Not even remotely interested in FPGA unless it can do FPU+MMU & 68020+ instructions.  Everybody's got to be picky about something, right?  ;)
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: giZmo350 on November 10, 2015, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;799047
I would pay up to $1000 USD for a good '060 board for my 2000.  But some things you can't get for love nor money.  :(


Every man has his price and your GETTING WARMER DOC!!!!! :p
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: nicholas on November 10, 2015, 10:26:25 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;799056
Not even remotely interested in FPGA unless it can do FPU+MMU & 68020+ instructions.  Everybody's got to be picky about something, right?  ;)


Variety is the spice of life! :)
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 10, 2015, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: gizmo350;799057
Every man has his price and your GETTING WARMER DOC!!!!! :p

LOL.  :D  I'm also still keeping an eye out for a Blizzard 2040 that can be modded like yours!  ;)
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: giZmo350 on November 10, 2015, 11:22:23 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;799060
LOL.  :D  I'm also still keeping an eye out for a Blizzard 2040 that can be modded like yours!  ;)


Well, I can't believe I would actually consider this but, 1K + your GVP Spectrum and she's yours (w/128meg)! BTW, it took me over a year to get a REAL 060/50! The first two times I bought one, they were fake! Third time was a charm at $80. However, if you do decide to grow old trying to find a board and CPU, like I said before, I do still 97 of those SMD diodes left that you'll need! HAHAHAHAHA! :lol:
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Robbie on November 11, 2015, 11:03:24 AM
Well....I'm happy. I just saw on another forum a post from Jens confirming that the ACA2000 is still being developed, based on the ACA500plus.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: kolla on November 11, 2015, 08:29:55 PM
Quote from: nicholas;799055
I'm hoping for a bog box version for my A3000 too at some point. I'm sure an A1200 version will come long before that though.


Well, that would be interesting, as the A3000 AFAIK requires MMU for the Zorro III bus to work.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Rob on November 11, 2015, 08:49:53 PM
The biggest concern is the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;100 price hike from the 40 to 50mhz.  If 030s are really getting that expensive then maybe it time for Jens to think about FPGAs too or get left behind.

It would be nice to see some added value with and SD card reader for mass storage and a couple of clock ports for other expansions.  

I know Jens has complained about decreased compatibility with other hardware as the complexity rises but how many people are buying his accelerators for vanilla systems or or would ditch their old add-ons for for something newer and and integrated.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: kickstart on November 11, 2015, 09:15:57 PM
I cant imagine the amiga reloaded prices.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: utri007 on November 11, 2015, 10:06:04 PM
Amigas starts to live with 68040, can't imagine to get anything below it.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: NovaCoder on November 11, 2015, 10:14:53 PM
Yes it very expensive for a faster 030.

Another thing to consider is that you can't really do much with a fast 030 that you can't do with normal 030.

All Classic games can be run with a normal 030 and newer ports need at least an 040 most of the time.

Newer demos need an 060
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: NovaCoder on November 11, 2015, 10:15:38 PM
Quote from: utri007;799105
Amigas starts to live with 68040, can't imagine to get anything below it.
Yes it very expensive for a faster 030.

Another to consider is that you can't really do much with a fast 030 that you can't do with normal 030.

All Classic games can be run with a normal 030 and newer ports need at least an 040 most of the time.

Newer demos need an 060Yes it very expensive for a faster 030.

Another to consider is that you can't really do much with a fast 030 that you can't do with normal 030.

All Classic games can be run with a normal 030 and newer ports need at least an 040 most of the time.

Newer demos need an 060
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: matthey on November 12, 2015, 12:46:58 AM
Quote from: kolla;799100
Well, that would be interesting, as the A3000 AFAIK requires MMU for the Zorro III bus to work.

The MMU fixes a cache bug in the 68030 (with longword writes as I recall). The (data?) caches can be turned off instead but that reduces performance more than using the MMU. It's not just the Apollo core which can have bugs ;).

Quote from: Rob;799102
The biggest concern is the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;100 price hike from the 40 to 50mhz.  If 030s are really getting that expensive then maybe it time for Jens to think about FPGAs too or get left behind.

Jens has FPGA knowledge from the Chameleon and Clone-A projects. FPGA code no doubt requires more development and support time than an already developed hard CPU. He could be waiting for FPGA cores like the TG68 and Apollo to mature and the source to become available but then he is taking a gamble that current projects like Majsta's Vampire won't undercut him as bugs are fixed. The FPGA CPU cores are not only much faster but they can be *more* compatible with older 68k code than a 68040/68060. Who would pay this much for a 68030 when an FPGA accelerator for half the price is several times faster, has an FPU and has the same compatibility as a 68020? Jens could be put out of the Amiga accelerator business with a few more 68k FPGA core bug fixes. He also could be put out of the Amiga motherboard business if anyone wanted to make a standalone FPGA Amiga board.

Quote from: NovaCoder;799106
Yes it very expensive for a faster 030.

A fast 030 without FPU no less.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: nicholas on November 12, 2015, 01:23:24 AM
Quote from: kolla;799100
Well, that would be interesting, as the A3000 AFAIK requires MMU for the Zorro III bus to work.


As long as the FPGA is big enough is there any technical reason why an MMU couldn't be implemented at some point too?
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: guest11527 on November 12, 2015, 08:37:18 AM
Quote from: nicholas;799109
As long as the FPGA is big enough is there any technical reason why an MMU couldn't be implemented at some point too?

Sure, it could. It's just work. BTW, it's not really the FPGA or the Zorro-III bus that requires the MMU. Memory management is required for two reasons: First of all, the 68030 has a bug concerning its external "cache-inhibit" signal - or rather, due to design constraints it is impossible to honor the cache-inhibit line on write-accesses. Of course, there is no reason to mimic this bug on an FPGA design, but then again, it is really hard to avoid this problem without slowing down the bus access.


Second, proper cache management is a necessity in a system where you run DMA. The reasons for that are a bit technical, but roughly one has to ensure that data written to RAM due to a DMA-read access are not overwritten by stale data from the CPU cache. This problem also applies to FPGA implementations. As long as you only run PIO, you're fine, but DMA is creating headaches.
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: guest11527 on November 12, 2015, 08:44:42 AM
Quote from: Cosmos;799004
359,94 euros for the 55 Mhz version ??
Aparently, the prices for after-sales products for the Amiga are growing, and he believes that he can sell new cards for this price. After all, Jens does not run a charity, but wants to make a living. Would I buy a 68030@55Mhz for this price? No, I wouldn't. But then again, I already have a 68060@50Mhz, so I'm not even a potential customer.

Quote from: Cosmos;799004
Remember : he have all the Apollo 1260/3060/4060 schematics who can save the Amiga Classics, but he prefere to push down our favorite machine with 020/030...
Major problem for the 68060 is really getting hold of the CPUs. What you get these days are mainly faked 68060s from dubious Chinese sellers where you do not really know what you're getting. It is a 68060 or a 68040? Is it a relabled EC version? Is it defective?

Yes, if you check the mot/freescale website for vendors, you'll still find some authorized dealers that claim to be able to sell authentic 68060 - for prices like 300$ per piece. And whether they can deliver is the next question. Just to give you an idea...
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Cosmos Amiga on November 12, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: Thomas Richter;799113
Major problem for the 68060 is really getting hold of the CPUs. What you get these days are mainly faked 68060s from dubious Chinese sellers where you do not really know what you're getting. It is a 68060 or a 68040? Is it a relabled EC version? Is it defective?

Yes, if you check the mot/freescale website for vendors, you'll still find some authorized dealers that claim to be able to sell authentic 68060 - for prices like 300$ per piece. And whether they can deliver is the next question. Just to give you an idea...

That's true for today...

When he purchased the Apollo schematics ? About ten years ago ?

Ten years ago, 060 are not so rare than today...

And when we discovered the rev 6 since about 6 years (2009), they were very cheap (about 25-35 euros with FPU & MMU and reach 105 Mhz on my Apollo 1260) and NOT rare...
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Djole on November 12, 2015, 07:15:48 PM
I bet he has a stash of 060s laying around, if people are willing to pay 350e for 030 (with used CPU) imagine the price of a 060 card.... Current customers will "need" an upgrade in a few years.

He better hurry up tho or he might get bitten by a vampire ;)

Quote from: Cosmos;799116
That's true for today...

When he purchased the Apollo schematics ? About ten years ago ?

Ten years ago, 060 are not so rare than today...

And when we discovered the rev 6 since about 6 years (2009), they were very cheap (about 25-35 euros with FPU & MMU and reach 105 Mhz on my Apollo 1260) and NOT rare...
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on November 12, 2015, 08:29:10 PM
Quote from: Djole;799128
He better hurry up tho or he might get bitten by a vampire ;)

He better hurry up before his existing customer base dies off.  :(
Title: Re: New ACA1233/55
Post by: Cosmos Amiga on November 14, 2015, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;799130
He better hurry up before his existing customer base dies off.  :(

Since the end of Commodore, our "elite" have completely destroyed the original Amiga...

Hope they will find another toy to break now...



:(