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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Kernel on October 08, 2015, 03:26:15 PM
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So what opinions are there ion the best TCP software to use on the Amiga be it physical or emulated via WinUAE?
I've used EasyNET and Miami and MiamiDX on an A3000 in the past but was wondering if there is something more powerful, up to date, easier to use, supported, etc.
Seems like EasyNET and EasyNET Pro are both still supported and Miami/MimaiDX are dead. But what else is there? Links would be appreciated as well as opinions.
Thanks.
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Users won't usually need any TCP/IP stack installed on the Amiga side when running it in WinUAE, just tick the bsdsocket emulation on from the WinUAE config.
For a real Amiga there are several options and the best may depend of your needs.
The most recent and probably the best all-arounder is Roadshow (http://roadshow.apc-tcp.de/index-en.php). It has the most modern features and supports for example DHCP and PPPoE, and it's fast. On the negative side there isn't any GUI, but it's still _really_ easy to setup, and GUI might even feel wasting resources with this :)
Then there are AmiTCP/IP based options. Original ones are hard to set up, but Genesis and EasyNet GUIs make it much better in that regard. Original 3.x is free, but later ones are commercial. Although you can get full version of Genesis with OS3.9. About as fast as Roadshow, but doesn't support DHCP or many modern features, but still a good option when static addresses is what you want. Genesis' GUI is pretty versatile, but I haven't seen EasyNet.. I think it's more simplier.
Miami(DX) has lot of features not found in other stacks, like NAT, PPPoE etc, but it's questionable if anyone needs those anymore in Amiga use. Miami is also the slowest stack of all, in many cases half of the speed of the other stacks. It's also impossible to get legally anymore. Quite easy to setup and versatile GUI too.
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You ask for opinions and 1,000 people will give you 1,001 different answers. ;) There's Roadshow, which is newer, faster, and still being developed, but personally I prefer the full GUI of Miami. Shame Holger K. had to be such a di#&. Don't forget to add Genesis to your list.
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Last time I tried to go into the net with X-Surf I tried Miami and Genesis side by side. Genesis was the first to work so it was my choice.
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Thanks for such quick responses... I particularly was not aware of the bdsocket emulation of WinUAE since I haven't dug too deep into the docs yet. I will have the check out RoadShow as well.
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Speed wise and simple deployment, roadshow has everyone beat by a country mile really.
The author of Roadshow is accessible and easy to work with. Just install it, and it runs.
Easynet is a pain to setup by comparison, it does occasionally achieve similar speeds to roadshow, but it take more work and time to get going.
MiamiDX using MNI drivers has lots of features and attains decent speeds assuming your card has an MNI driver.
Genesis only used a few times. Nothing memorable for me.
Good luck.
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I recently installed RoadShow demo, and boy was it intrusive! It only left som documents in the drawer I appointed it to, and installed everything all over sys: :eek:
I mean - assigns, path - why not use them!
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Roadshow, buy it support it.
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IMHO, Roadshow is the best TCP/IP stack.
It's very light and easy to setup. Just like Lurch says - I've bought it in order to support it.
It was a very rewarding decision.
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Okay...so where do you buy it -Roadshow(find it?)?
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Support? Has Olsen given any signs that he intends to support it further?
And you can buy it here - http://www.amigashop.org/product_info.php?products_id=200
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You can buy it here:
http://roadshow.apc-tcp.de/index-en.php
http://www.amigashop.org/product_info.php?products_id=200&osCsid=2j52fdsil7sctp63vhev610dr7
@kolla
He has not given any signs that he won't support it in the future.
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I use Roadshow and I'm extremely happy with it. Easy to configure too.
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I use Roadshow and I'm extremely happy with it. Easy to configure too.
Yes, I agree.
Here are some examples of how to connect Amiga to the Internet using a WIFI, Ethernet cards and Roadshow.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7yF340BwUM9z3bVBLW
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x378gt9_how-to-set-up-a-pcmcia-ethernet-card-on-a-standard-amiga-1200_tech
Both videos have been done by TenLeftFingers :)
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Support? Has Olsen given any signs that he intends to support it further?
Olaf "Olsen" Barthel is an active user of this forum.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=897
His last activity is today which is a pretty good sign. He has supported the Amiga for decades which is also a pretty good sign. The Amiga is not his primary job so he can be busy at times but he is as helpful and professional as he can be considering the current Amiga situation. Classic Amiga development and support is more of a hobby and labor of love these days than anything else ;).
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Use MiamiDX if you want something that's EASY and powerful (is slower than AmiTcp and Roadshow, though).
I use AmiTcp 3. Annoying to set up and no DHCP, but faster than MiamiDX (A1200 PCMCIA network) and free (full version on Aminet). Unfortunately some programs want AmiTcp 4 compatibility (the one thing I needed I could recompile with AmiTcp 3 SDK unaltered, might be luck).
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Everybody talking about speed, you know, Miami isn't that slow. I'm sure if you run a speedtest it'll score lower than Roadshow and the others, but in terms of actual, "real-world" use, on my A2000 with X-Surf 100 and basic 100Mbps connection I can download just about any file on Aminet in a second. And when browsing the web, Ibrowse takes longer to render the page than it does to download it. So it's not like Miami's really "that slow", haha. ;)
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Olaf "Olsen" Barthel is an active user of this forum.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=897
His last activity is today which is a pretty good sign. He has supported the Amiga for decades which is also a pretty good sign. The Amiga is not his primary job so he can be busy at times but he is as helpful and professional as he can be considering the current Amiga situation. Classic Amiga development and support is more of a hobby and labor of love these days than anything else ;).
Yeah, but look at Roadshow, it took like 10 years for him to "wrap it up" and get it out. And he has other projects too, like CygnusEd. And Term, hehe. And gtlayout.library. At least there are some sources for those available, though perhaps not the latest.
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I've been using AmiTCP 4.x since the '90s. Initially for dial-up and then for Ethernet on my local LAN. I'm very familiar with it os I keep using it (if it ain'y broke). But I do agree that it is not suited to those that only know a little about networking and/or Amiga OS.
I've never heard of Roadshow. I must look into.
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Everybody talking about speed, you know, Miami isn't that slow. I'm sure if you run a speedtest it'll score lower than Roadshow and the others, but in terms of actual, "real-world" use, on my A2000 with X-Surf 100 and basic 100Mbps connection I can download just about any file on Aminet in a second. And when browsing the web, Ibrowse takes longer to render the page than it does to download it. So it's not like Miami's really "that slow", haha. ;)
In certain use it really is very slow compared to others and that fact can't be skipped when telling general information about the stacks. We don't know what kind of use readers will want to do.
When using web it might not be that noticeable, but if you want to transfer files for example with FTP in higher speeds, there really is the difference. Speeds can be twice as much on the other stacks than in Miami in real world use, and that really matters.
You can't generalize that everyone would just want to download few small files from the Aminet. Some might want to make whole backups of their Amiga through the net or move any other big files around. I've for example always moved mp3 files, ISO images, software archives, small movies, etc on the Amiga. It would have especially been a real bottle neck to use Miami when Amiga was my daily computer, and even still would.
For example here is couple real world speed tests between different stacks. A bit old, but shows how it was before Roadshow etc times, and still apply between the old stacks. FTP/HTTP test (http://jpv.wmhost.com/tcpip-test.txt) and smbfs test (http://jpv.wmhost.com/smbfs_test.txt).
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Yeah, but look at Roadshow, it took like 10 years for him to "wrap it up" and get it out.
I would have preferred to have Roadshow available much earlier (say 2001-2002), but then the whole Amiga market took a dive, along with all the companies which I had been doing business with before. I won't go into the cruel details of trying to get a GUI developed for Roadshow...
On the positive side, the "slight delay" allowed for Roadshow to mature.And he has other projects too, like CygnusEd. And Term, hehe. And gtlayout.library. At least there are some sources for those available, though perhaps not the latest.
Other projects not listed here take up a lot of time, too ;)
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I recently installed RoadShow demo, and boy was it intrusive! It only left som documents in the drawer I appointed it to, and installed everything all over sys: :eek:
I mean - assigns, path - why not use them!
Because Roadshow was intended to ship as part of the next AmigaOS update, say 2001-2002. It is a part of AmigaOS4. I did not want to go the same route as AmiTCP or Miami. The TCP/IP stack should be integrated into the operating system and become practically invisible.
The default installation puts Roadshow on the boot partition, along with a short script which is called from "S:User-Startup". But, as these things are, you can put the Roadshow components wherever you believe they should go. There are no hard-coded paths, except for the icon default tools.
Also, I did my best to make the Roadshow installer script not only put the files where they are, you can also uninstall all of them again with the installer. The only thing that is not as easily uninstalled is the addition to the S:User-Startup script.
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Support? Has Olsen given any signs that he intends to support it further?
Yes, I have. Repeating it here :)
That said, I have been working on an update for a while which I have not yet released. It's mostly small bug fixes for now. Because my A600HD test machine croaked I will have to test the recent changes to Roadshow on WinUAE, I suppose :(
Question is if "winuaenet.device" works on a plain emulated 68000 system. If I remember correctly, "a2065.device" does not work on a plain 68000 system, so I cannot go the route of having WinUAE emulate the hardware.
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The default installation puts Roadshow on the boot partition, along with a short script which is called from "S:User-Startup".
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This reminds me of something I always use with MiamiDX:
Getting the actual date and time from the web and updating the system clock with it...
There once was a small tool available on Aminet for MiamiDX, that automatically retrieved the actual date and time from time servers on the web.
This only worked with MiamiDX - I have no idea if there is a comparable solution available for one of the other stacks.
I need this feature, as I removed the battery from my A4k mobo.
MiamiDX is started upon each boot (WB-Startup) and once it is online, the little tool from aminet makes it connect with a web based time server to get the actual date and time and then sets the systems date and time accordingly, if sytem date & time differ too much from that.
Up to now I never heard of comparable solutions for other stacks.
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This reminds me of something I always use with MiamiDX:
Getting the actual date and time from the web and updating the system clock with it...
There once was a small tool available on Aminet for MiamiDX, that automatically retrieved the actual date and time from time servers on the web.
This only worked with MiamiDX - I have no idea if there is a comparable solution available for one of the other stacks.
I need this feature, as I removed the battery from my A4k mobo.
MiamiDX is started upon each boot (WB-Startup) and once it is online, the little tool from aminet makes it connect with a web based time server to get the actual date and time and then sets the systems date and time accordingly, if sytem date & time differ too much from that.
Up to now I never heard of comparable solutions for other stacks.
FACTS (http://aminet.net/package/comm/tcp/facts) has been commonly used and suggested in every discussion in past (almost) 20 years ;) It syncs with NTP.
I myself have just used the built-in time sync option in Genesis/Miami which syncs the clock with UDP Time protocol (ok to use to sync from other computers in LAN).
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I did use besides FACTS some (atomic.)rexx script that set the time from atomic servers.
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Everybody talking about speed, you know, Miami isn't that slow. I'm sure if you run a speedtest it'll score lower than Roadshow and the others, but in terms of actual, "real-world" use, on my A2000 with X-Surf 100 and basic 100Mbps connection I can download just about any file on Aminet in a second. And when browsing the web, Ibrowse takes longer to render the page than it does to download it. So it's not like Miami's really "that slow", haha. ;)
No miami is slow.. its like saying zorro2 isnt much slower than zorro3.. its night and day :D lol
That being said i love the miami gui also,since it was so handy to setup many interfaces and such for testing multiple eithernet cards. I use roadshow exclusively now though.
After all i badgered poor olsen for what seemed like a year to release Roadshow way back when.
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@mechy
Same as me. I've been a long time user of Miami and MiamiDX. The GUI interface is really great.
Never been much of a fan of AmiTCP/Genesis, though.
As soon as Roadshow appeard I decided to give it a go and I must admit that ever since I've been using it exclusively as well. It's really great!!
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No miami is slow.. its like saying zorro2 isnt much slower than zorro3.. its night and day :D lol
Okay, okay. Bust my balls already, I was just trying to say "it's not slow like 2400 baud modem slow", hence the liberal sprinkling of quotation marks in my comment. But I guess maybe to you guys it does seem that slow. Perhaps I need to work on my euphamisms a bit. ;) .... And often there can be other bottlenecks - like Ibrowse taking longer to render a web page than it does for Miami + my network card to load it. But then again, it does make a difference what you do with your system - are there really that many people transferring whole movies to their Amiga? ;) I would definitely be interested to learn the name of Amiga backup software that works over a network connection? :)
Yeah yeah, TL;DR. I gotta try Roadshow one of these days. In the meantime here's a screenshot of another method of setting the clock via NTP with Miami:
NTPSync (http://aminet.net/package/util/time/NTPSync)
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Wow... I never expected such a lively discussion on this - fantastic! I'll definitely take a look at RoadShow.
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@Kernel
You definitely should try Roadshow. I'm sure, you won't regret it :)
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Nice to see positive discussion about good Amiga software which is also at a good price.
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Everybody likes to point out that Miami is slow, nobody care to ask why. Holger wanted to bring networking on Amiga further, he even had a bit of a plan on how to do this, optimizing for sana2 was not his focus, sana2 falls short quickly in modern scenaries, so he developed MNI as a suggestion as a path forward. However, his dreadfully slow tcp-stack that noone really should want to use, was heavily pirated. And he, like so many with him, thought of Amiga as a "market" rather than what it is, so he got delusioned and angry, and left Miami behind. Miami could have been awesome, it could have been the standard TCP stack for Amiga. But no, because, delusions.
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Because Roadshow was intended to ship as part of the next AmigaOS update, say 2001-2002. It is a part of AmigaOS4. I did not want to go the same route as AmiTCP or Miami. The TCP/IP stack should be integrated into the operating system and become practically invisible.
But on any platform you would use Roadshow 68k on, it clearly is not part of the OS, and that much is obvious! The least you could do is to give the user options, to carpet bomb sys: with files and directories, or a more conservative approach.
The default installation puts Roadshow on the boot partition, along with a short script which is called from "S:User-Startup". But, as these things are, you can put the Roadshow components wherever you believe they should go. There are no hard-coded paths, except for the icon default tools.
Of course, and I had to manually move things after the initial jaw dropping experience.
Also, I did my best to make the Roadshow installer script not only put the files where they are, you can also uninstall all of them again with the installer. The only thing that is not as easily uninstalled is the addition to the S:User-Startup script.
Noone expect that to work, hehe.
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Yes, I have. Repeating it here :)
That said, I have been working on an update for a while which I have not yet released. It's mostly small bug fixes for now. Because my A600HD test machine croaked I will have to test the recent changes to Roadshow on WinUAE, I suppose :(
Question is if "winuaenet.device" works on a plain emulated 68000 system. If I remember correctly, "a2065.device" does not work on a plain 68000 system, so I cannot go the route of having WinUAE emulate the hardware.
I use Roadshow a little with MIST and Minimig, null-modem cable with RPi, or wirelessly over bluetooth to Linux or OSX and it works ok.
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Because my A600HD test machine croaked I will have to test the recent changes to Roadshow on WinUAE, I suppose :(
Somebody get this man a classic system, stat! ;)
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Okay, okay. Bust my balls already, I was just trying to say "it's not slow like 2400 baud modem slow", hence the liberal sprinkling of quotation marks in my comment. But I guess maybe to you guys it does seem that slow. Perhaps I need to work on my euphamisms a bit. ;) .... And often there can be other bottlenecks - like Ibrowse taking longer to render a web page than it does for Miami + my network card to load it. But then again, it does make a difference what you do with your system - are there really that many people transferring whole movies to their Amiga? ;) I would definitely be interested to learn the name of Amiga backup software that works over a network connection? :)
Yeah yeah, TL;DR. I gotta try Roadshow one of these days. In the meantime here's a screenshot of another method of setting the clock via NTP with Miami:
NTPSync (http://aminet.net/package/util/time/NTPSync)
Hah hah dont take it as an attack, it wasn't meant that way, seriously though, On a zorro2 bottleneck machine you are not likely to see much difference, but with gfx and 100Mbit zorro 3 it is noticeable. Ibrowse again is pretty snappy on 060 especially with javascript off, but as you say,we are in sad times browser wise with the changes.
svdc movies do work on amiga, so yea some of us crazy people do that. I could almost play a divx movie under os4 on the csppc using mplayer iirc?, it would likely work if i had stachu tune it up to say 360mhz+ but i dont have the cash. vcd/svcd works under 060 reasonably well.
As for amiga backup software, you don't need any really, just do a copy all clone and back up the whole deal :D send the file whereever you want it, worst case lha it i guess.
Ntpsync is great, i used it for years.
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are there really that many people transferring whole movies to their Amiga? ;)
You're just picking one example from the several I gave. And I didn't say whole movies, they may be clips too. Some lower quality MPEG-1 videos run fine on highend Amigas too. I know you're picking up this one too, but I also ran FTP server on Amiga for years, and users did up/download movies too. But I know, nobody does it anymore, but just one another example of usage cases because you don't seem to have imagination enough :)
I would definitely be interested to learn the name of Amiga backup software that works over a network connection? :)
Backup software doesn't need to do that, you may transfer the result of backup with any protocol you want (FTP is common). Many users don't have USB on their Amigas and they don't like to connect backup HDs etc, transferring the backup over net is a good solution to get is safe. You may also mount the source/destination Amiga drives and use any backup solution to copy the result directly to other machine.
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But on any platform you would use Roadshow 68k on, it clearly is not part of the OS, and that much is obvious! The least you could do is to give the user options, to carpet bomb sys: with files and directories, or a more conservative approach.
Of course, and I had to manually move things after the initial jaw dropping experience.
Noone expect that to work, hehe.
I think you're blowing it out of all proportion here. There really isn't that many files, seriously. They're not scattered here there and everywhere either.
I'm very strict upon which installs scripts I allow to run on my Amiga, and I have no problem at all with Roadshow in this regard.
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I guess you could use multiassigns to have RS files on their own directory.
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I think you're blowing it out of all proportion here. There really isn't that many files, seriously. They're not scattered here there and everywhere either.
I'm very strict upon which installs scripts I allow to run on my Amiga, and I have no problem at all with Roadshow in this regard.
Well, but you are not me :)
One thing is for sure, AmigaOS directory structures do not make much sense anymore :laughing:
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Well, but you are not me :)
One thing is for sure, AmigaOS directory structures do not make much sense anymore :laughing:
Well, we're not ;) You are correct.
Have you tried Expert user instead of Novice user while installation in order to avoid intrusion?
For me, personally, Novice user is the most difficult :)
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Well, we're not ;) You are correct.
Have you tried Expert user instead of Novice user while installation in order to avoid intrusion?
For me, personally, Novice user is the most difficult :)
Yes, I always use expert, I don't even think of it, it's a reflex :)
Anyways, that is the only issue I had with Roadshow, it works really well.
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In my opinion it has to be some thing simple to install and is consistently reliable and that has to be the install in seconds ROADSHOW which is one of the best things I ever bought. :):):):):):):):)
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Amiga´s pipe dream:
http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/lwip/
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Somebody get this man a classic system, stat! ;)
I have a good number of 68k machines at home in working condition. The only machine which is not easily replaced is the plain 68000 test hardware which I used for Roadshow benchmarking and compatibility testing: the A600HD. I have two A500+ machines in the attic, but none of these can be easily made to use networking hardware suitable for Roadshow testing.
As I just learned, the A600HD may have suffered from "SMD capacitor decay". I gave up my soldering gear for good more than a decade ago, but it looks like I might have to look for it again in the attic. Apparently, you can replace the capacitors, but you'd still have to know why the A600HD stopped working. It may not be the capacitors which are to blame.
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Everybody likes to point out that Miami is slow, nobody care to ask why. Holger wanted to bring networking on Amiga further, he even had a bit of a plan on how to do this, optimizing for sana2 was not his focus, sana2 falls short quickly in modern scenaries, so he developed MNI as a suggestion as a path forward. However, his dreadfully slow tcp-stack that noone really should want to use, was heavily pirated. And he, like so many with him, thought of Amiga as a "market" rather than what it is, so he got delusioned and angry, and left Miami behind. Miami could have been awesome, it could have been the standard TCP stack for Amiga. But no, because, delusions.
My pet theory as to why Miami's throughput does not compare favourably with other Amiga TCP/IP stacks is that Holger ended up leveraging the existing NetBSD kernel drivers, and this did not turn out as well as he had hoped.
From my own experiments, dialing up the number of I/O queue entries for the SANA-II drivers correlates with throughput increasing. The SANA-II model seems to match how the Amiga operating system wants I/O to be done better than what the NetBSD model can do under the same circumstances.
In theory, with MNI drivers interacting with the TCP/IP stack without having to go through another layer of copying data around should be the right thing, as it eliminates at least one step of copying between the network hardware and the kernel input/output queues.
In practice the MNI drivers are faster than the SANA-II drivers, when used in Miami. But both AmiTCP and Roadshow can be made to run faster still, using exactly the same SANA-II drivers which run more slowly on Miam, by increasing the number of IORequests in the receive/transmit queues.
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But on any platform you would use Roadshow 68k on, it clearly is not part of the OS, and that much is obvious! The least you could do is to give the user options, to carpet bomb sys: with files and directories, or a more conservative approach.
I'll make a note on the TODO list. The installation script would need to be modified, but this isn't exactly rocket science.
The documentation which ships with the installation archive already contains notes on what you need in order to customize the installation, i.e. which files are essential and where they go. You could use that as a basic guideline for rolling your own setup script.
Noone expect that to work, hehe.
Nobody expects Installer scripts to be useful beyond slapping the contents of a product onto your hard disk. I have seen Installer scripts which are a very thin wrapper around unpacking an .lha archive.
The Roadshow Installer script is old-fashioned and complex. It even allows you to run it in "pretend" mode and create a report of what it is doing before you might want to install the software for real.
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And he, like so many with him, thought of Amiga as a "market" rather than what it is,
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Hmmm - back then (when Holger Kruse left) the Amiga Scene deserved the label "market" rather than today...
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The TCP/IP stack should be integrated into the operating system and become practically invisible.
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Up to now I never understood the advantage of having the TCP/IP stack integrated into the OS.
You don't believe that would make the AmigaOS more secure, do you?
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Up to now I never understood the advantage of having the TCP/IP stack integrated into the OS.
You don't believe that would make the AmigaOS more secure, do you?
No, this is not a security issue. If somebody wanted to make trouble, then there are easier ways to achieve this than through the TCP/IP stack.
My idea with Roadshow was that you should not need to launch the TCP/IP stack manually or through the Workbench. Starting it as part of the S:Startup-Sequence or S:User-Startup should take care of that. However, if you start AmiTCP or Miami from the S:User-Startup file they will open splash windows which force the Workbench screen open, and that isn't always helpful.
If you choose so, Roadshow starts quietly as part of the normal system startup (through S:User-Startup) and will not open a window or complain unless there is something to complain about. This is what I mean by "invisible": no idle chatter, no fireworks, etc. You should notice the TCP/IP stack only if something didn't work right.
That said, launching Roadshow from S:User-Startup has its drawbacks. If something goes wrong, you probably won't see the error or warning message :( Error reporting from inside the S:User-Startup script (or for that matter, the S:Startup-Sequence) is fundamentally broken.
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Up to now I never understood the advantage of having the TCP/IP stack integrated into the OS.
In this day and age internet should just be available after you installed your OS.
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if you start AmiTCP or Miami from the S:User-Startup file they will open splash windows which force the Workbench screen open, and that isn't always helpful.
It's been a while since I started Miami through User-Startup (I normally use WBStartup), but the way I have it configured now the only thing it opens on Workbench is the appicon, so I can quickly access its settings or go online/offline easily (e.g., for some games that don't like having a TCP/IP stack running in the background).
TL;DR. You can disable the splash screen through settings. ;)
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It's been a while since I started Miami through User-Startup (I normally use WBStartup), but the way I have it configured now the only thing it opens on Workbench is the appicon, so I can quickly access its settings or go online/offline easily (e.g., for some games that don't like having a TCP/IP stack running in the background).
TL;DR. You can disable the splash screen through settings. ;)
Had I known that in the year 1999 then I might not have been quite so keen to start working on Roadshow ;) That splash window was so annoying...
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Had I known that in the year 1999 then I might not have been quite so keen to start working on Roadshow ;) That splash window was so annoying...
And Genesis can be launched quietly without anything popping up too. I've been running it from user-startup.
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And Genesis can be launched quietly without anything popping up too. I've been running it from user-startup.
Same for AmiTcp3 if you modify the startup script a bit.
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Had I known that in the year 1999 then I might not have been quite so keen to start working on Roadshow ;) That splash window was so annoying...
But we're all super glad that you did. :)
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In this day and age internet should just be available after you installed your OS.
To me this rather seems to be someone's personal taste than a profound answer to my question.
And when I installed OS 3.9 the last time, I was asked if I also want to install Miami (demo version - on OS 3.9 CD, IIRC) as tcp/ip stack.
As my answer to this was "Yes", OS and Miami were installed concurrently and internet actually was immediately available after the installation and after I entered my credentials in Miami...
;)
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And when I installed OS 3.9 the last time, I was asked if I also want to install Miami (demo version - on OS 3.9 CD, IIRC) as tcp/ip stack.
To be exact, demo version of Miami was on OS3.5 CD. OS3.9 had a full version of Genesis.
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But we're all super glad that you did. :)
+1 to this. I don't think Roadshow would meet my needs, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's an awesome program and will definitely check it out on my main Miggy as soon as I get a chance. Kudos and thanks for all your hard work on it. :)
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To be exact, demo version of Miami was on OS3.5 CD. OS3.9 had a full version of Genesis.
Thanks for the correction - that was what I meant.
I was not sure and could not check it here from work...
But it demonstrates that one could very well have Internet access after installing the OS and the TCP/IP stack in one go and filling in the credentials...