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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: curtis on September 25, 2015, 11:57:38 PM

Title: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on September 25, 2015, 11:57:38 PM
So, I followed the directions at http://www.area536.com/projects/amiga/upgrade-amiga-500-kickstart-from-12-to-31/

Did so VERY carefully, counting pins several times to make sure I was on pin 31 and nothing happens.

All I get is a black screen.

ROM checks on in another machine, so I know that's not the problem.

Motherboard works with 1.3 and 2.05 (with the wire from 1 to 31).

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: paul1981 on September 26, 2015, 12:39:21 AM
Quote from: curtis;796364
So, I followed the directions at http://www.area536.com/projects/amiga/upgrade-amiga-500-kickstart-from-12-to-31/

Did so VERY carefully, counting pins several times to make sure I was on pin 31 and nothing happens.

All I get is a black screen.

ROM checks on in another machine, so I know that's not the problem.

Motherboard works with 1.3 and 2.05 (with the wire from 1 to 31).

Any suggestions?


No, sorry buddy. Can anyone here explain the checksum errors he was getting though from accessing his 1.2 disks on 3.1?
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: QuikSanz on September 26, 2015, 04:14:17 AM
Do you have 1 meg chip or 512k? I think it needs 1Meg.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 26, 2015, 07:22:14 AM
I don't think it requires 1MB.  Are you using any sort of Kickstart switcher?

(why does it feel like this same question just came up in another thread, a few weeks ago?)
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on September 26, 2015, 01:01:44 PM
Check this link over at EAB exact same issue.
Link:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75318 (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75318)
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on September 26, 2015, 03:27:47 PM
1MB installed.

Quote from: QuikSanz;796367
Do you have 1 meg chip or 512k? I think it needs 1Meg.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: QuikSanz on September 26, 2015, 04:16:54 PM
Quote from: curtis;796419
1MB installed.


Hmm, Check requirements once more?

"System Requirements
AmigaOS 3.9's hardware requirements are identical to that of Amiga OS 3.5. AmigaOS 3.9 is a software-only Update w/o ROMs (however, it requires Kickstart 3.1 ROMs to operate!)

AmigaOS 3.9 is the update for Amiga OS 3.5 -- but it can also be installed directly on top of an Amiga OS 3.1 system.

Minimum Requirements:

    CD-ROM drive
    Hard drive
    68020 or higher processor
    Amiga 3.1 ROMs (version 40.xx)
    6 MB Fast RAM"
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: Methuselas on September 26, 2015, 05:05:22 PM
Curtis,

If you can't get the mobo working and want to make a trip down to Sugarland, I have a Rev 5 mobo you can have. Sadly, while I was moving, I placed it on a high shelf to get it out of the way and it decided to commit suicide. Top case is shattered, but the mobo, keyboard and floppy are intact.

Guess I'm officially in the world of emulation. :(
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: Methuselas on September 26, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
Also, with Rev 5 mobos, you have to cut a trace, but I forget where. Once you do, however, 1.3 won't work anymore.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 26, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: QuikSanz;796420
Hmm, Check requirements once more?

"System Requirements
AmigaOS 3.9's hardware requirements...

He's not trying to install 3.9.  He's just trying to fit a 3.1 ROM.  Go have some coffee and come back to us.  ;)
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: Jiffy on September 26, 2015, 06:49:51 PM
Quote from: QuikSanz;796420
Hmm, Check requirements once more?

"System Requirements
AmigaOS 3.9's hardware requirements are identical to that of Amiga OS 3.5. AmigaOS 3.9 is a software-only Update w/o ROMs (however, it requires Kickstart 3.1 ROMs to operate!)

AmigaOS 3.9 is the update for Amiga OS 3.5 -- but it can also be installed directly on top of an Amiga OS 3.1 system.

Minimum Requirements:

    CD-ROM drive
    Hard drive
    68020 or higher processor
    Amiga 3.1 ROMs (version 40.xx)
    6 MB Fast RAM"

You do realise this topic is not about OS3.9, right?
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: paul1981 on September 26, 2015, 07:14:01 PM
Quote from: curtis;796364
So, I followed the directions at http://www.area536.com/projects/amiga/upgrade-amiga-500-kickstart-from-12-to-31/

Did so VERY carefully, counting pins several times to make sure I was on pin 31 and nothing happens.

All I get is a black screen.

ROM checks on in another machine, so I know that's not the problem.

Motherboard works with 1.3 and 2.05 (with the wire from 1 to 31).

Any suggestions?


Is there anything besides the floppy drive connected to the motherboard?
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: QuikSanz on September 26, 2015, 07:24:16 PM
@Oldsmobile_Mike,

Oops, Coffee kicked in!
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: mechy on September 26, 2015, 08:18:29 PM
check this out , this should do the trick:

http://www.nyx.net/~rdavis/AmigaHints2.html#v31rom

"Jumper wires for the Amiga OS 3.1 ROMs, at least the ones I have seen, are different from
the jumpers on the 2.04 ROMs, and not well documented by the ROM suppliers.

Here is another look at OS 3.1 ROM jumper installation, specifically for a version 5 Amiga 500 motherboard.
Solder a thin wire to pin 1 of the ROM IC.  Leave the other end of this wire free.
Solder a thin wire from pin 21 of the ROM IC to pin 31 of the ROM IC.
Bend up pin 31 of the ROM IC so that pin will not go into the ROM socket.
Insert the ROM IC into the socket, taking care that pin 31 of the IC touches *no* other pin or wire.
Insert the free end of the wire from pin 1 into the socket at location 31, taking care that
the wire does not touch any pin on the IC or any other possible connection.
Check for bent pins, test the computer before re-assembling."
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on September 26, 2015, 09:50:43 PM
Totally NOT relevant.

Trying to install 3.1 NOT 3.5/3.9.

Quote from: QuikSanz;796420
Hmm, Check requirements once more?

"System Requirements
AmigaOS 3.9's hardware requirements are identical to that of Amiga OS 3.5. AmigaOS 3.9 is a software-only Update w/o ROMs (however, it requires Kickstart 3.1 ROMs to operate!)

AmigaOS 3.9 is the update for Amiga OS 3.5 -- but it can also be installed directly on top of an Amiga OS 3.1 system.

Minimum Requirements:

    CD-ROM drive
    Hard drive
    68020 or higher processor
    Amiga 3.1 ROMs (version 40.xx)
    6 MB Fast RAM"
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on September 26, 2015, 09:54:18 PM
That's the same procedure I listed in the initial posting.  Only difference is this uses the wire from pin 1 directly to socket pin 31 instead of using an extra socket.  Difference doesn't make any difference electrically.

Quote from: mechy;796436
check this out , this should do the trick:

http://www.nyx.net/~rdavis/AmigaHints2.html#v31rom

"Jumper wires for the Amiga OS 3.1 ROMs, at least the ones I have seen, are different from
the jumpers on the 2.04 ROMs, and not well documented by the ROM suppliers.

Here is another look at OS 3.1 ROM jumper installation, specifically for a version 5 Amiga 500 motherboard.
Solder a thin wire to pin 1 of the ROM IC.  Leave the other end of this wire free.
Solder a thin wire from pin 21 of the ROM IC to pin 31 of the ROM IC.
Bend up pin 31 of the ROM IC so that pin will not go into the ROM socket.
Insert the ROM IC into the socket, taking care that pin 31 of the IC touches *no* other pin or wire.
Insert the free end of the wire from pin 1 into the socket at location 31, taking care that
the wire does not touch any pin on the IC or any other possible connection.
Check for bent pins, test the computer before re-assembling."
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: mechy on September 26, 2015, 10:56:56 PM
Quote from: curtis;796443
That's the same procedure I listed in the initial posting.  Only difference is this uses the wire from pin 1 directly to socket pin 31 instead of using an extra socket.  Difference doesn't make any difference electrically.

sorry didnt have time to check it 100%.. oh well ;)
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: orange on October 06, 2015, 01:29:00 PM
perhaps you need to install the missing resistor pack near the CPU.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: glitch on October 06, 2015, 10:18:01 PM
I just tried this again myself as I too had a grumpy A500 rev 5 that would not take a KS3.1 ROM.  Mechy's advice is correct, there IS a difference on how the jumpers are done.  I tested the usual Pin 1-31 and 31 to 21 mod just now - did not work.  So, I then did the one Mechy described above and it works.

Also, on this machine, the Motorola 68000 would not work - ROM would start up and then guru.  Replacing the Motorola with an ST68000P8 clone and no problems.  Perhaps they have a lower tolerance with the bus noise.  The 68HC000s are also much more forgiving.

Anyway, try Mechy's instructions, they worked here just now.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: QuikSanz on October 06, 2015, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: curtis;796442
Totally NOT relevant.

Trying to install 3.1 NOT 3.5/3.9.


See post # 17
"@Oldsmobile_Mike,

Oops, Coffee kicked in!"
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: orange on October 07, 2015, 07:02:59 AM
Quote from: glitch;796988
I just tried this again myself as I too had a grumpy A500 rev 5 that would not take a KS3.1 ROM.  Mechy's advice is correct, there IS a difference on how the jumpers are done.  I tested the usual Pin 1-31 and 31 to 21 mod just now - did not work.  So, I then did the one Mechy described above and it works.

Also, on this machine, the Motorola 68000 would not work - ROM would start up and then guru.  Replacing the Motorola with an ST68000P8 clone and no problems.  Perhaps they have a lower tolerance with the bus noise.  The 68HC000s are also much more forgiving.

Anyway, try Mechy's instructions, they worked here just now.


iirc, resistor pack helps with bus noise.
anyway, OP should check out this old thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69292
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on October 07, 2015, 10:05:16 PM
Not sure how mechy's version works as opposed to the original I tried.

Only difference would be putting the wire from 1 directly into the socket at pin 31 instead of using a shorting wire from 1 to 31 on an additional socket.

There shouldn't be that much additional noise generated from the addition of the extra socket.

Quote from: glitch;796988
I just tried this again myself as I too had a grumpy A500 rev 5 that would not take a KS3.1 ROM.  Mechy's advice is correct, there IS a difference on how the jumpers are done.  I tested the usual Pin 1-31 and 31 to 21 mod just now - did not work.  So, I then did the one Mechy described above and it works.

Also, on this machine, the Motorola 68000 would not work - ROM would start up and then guru.  Replacing the Motorola with an ST68000P8 clone and no problems.  Perhaps they have a lower tolerance with the bus noise.  The 68HC000s are also much more forgiving.

Anyway, try Mechy's instructions, they worked here just now.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: mechy on October 10, 2015, 05:19:12 PM
found this link which i think i used on my old rev 5 long ago. Not sure if it helps with 3.1 but the info should be valid. Its more about chip ram upgrade and what jumpers to cut etc,but does touch on rom stuff a little.  Its a good all around view of rev 5 and 6a differences.

https://archive.org/details/amigashopper-magazine-27

check out page 20,it has a good write up about rev5/6a.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on October 10, 2015, 09:25:37 PM
Good info, but it doesn't address 3.1.
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: mechy on October 10, 2015, 10:44:06 PM
Quote from: curtis;797181
Good info, but it doesn't address 3.1.

right, i had another thought, and its a shot in the dark. What eprom are your roms on? if its a 27c400 it may be a case of whoever made the rom didn't concatenate the code so it gets burned into both halves and the 500 is defaulting to the empty half.

Mech
Title: Re: Can't upgrad rev 5 A500 to KS 3.1
Post by: curtis on October 10, 2015, 11:08:38 PM
Beats the heck out of me!

It has a label SECURELY covering the entire top!

And, I did try a couple of different 3.1's with the same result.