Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ElPolloDiabl on May 08, 2015, 06:05:24 PM
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
I have one suggestion. Lay down on your bed or couch, close your eyes until you sleep. Then in your dreams you can have all your wishes come to true. Downsize of it though, you will have to wake up. But ONLY there will you have your Amiga NG in an ARM platform.
You could do that as a solution OOOOoorrr skip OS 4.1 and use either AROS/MorphOS.
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I have one suggestion. Lay down on your bed or couch, close your eyes until you sleep. Then in your dreams you can have all your wishes come to true. Downsize of it though, you will have to wake up. But ONLY there will you have your Amiga NG in an ARM platform.
You could do that as a solution OOOOoorrr skip OS 4.1 and use either AROS/MorphOS.
+1
That would be my advice too :)
If you want ARM (and use something on Raspberry) you have the option to use AROS (2 devs are right now working on a native version with full hardware seupport). Or use MorphOS on one of the many cheap options.
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RasPi support is being added to Aros on a daily basis. $35 mobo anyone? But before you shout for joy, remember that a PPC is about 2x as fast per clock cycle and Intel is about 4x as fast per clock cycle versus an ARM CPU.
Since code density affects the efficiency of the caches, RISC processors have poor performance. My suggestion is wait for the next-generation of 68k compatible FPGA cores. They may not be as fast as PPC native code on PPC but can probably beat some emulators. Likewise ARM CPUs are sloooow per clock cycle.
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Is Amiga NG underpowered
Depnds what you want to do, *all* computers are underpowered as the demands of the user expand to twice the available processing power....
and that is why I don't want to buy one?
How should we know why you don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll,
So don;t :-)
but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
There are new systems in the works and my X1k and SAM are still giving me great service
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
I wouldn't hold my breath, and if were started tomorrow, by the time you got it all fully working the worl would be using the LEG processor faimilly and we'd start this conversation again.
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Well as it runs on a PC now...the answer is no!
;)
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
I personaly think that AmigaOS should be ported to X86 hardware and only then would NG Amiga's have a chance of becoming mainstream.
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I personaly think that AmigaOS should be ported to X86 hardware and only then would NG Amiga's have a chance of becoming mainstream.
There's going to be a mandatory ROM lockout of non-approved (hobby) OSs on all new Windows 10 systems. NG Amigas have no chance of becoming mainstream. I'm going back to the classics using FPGA technology. Classics have a better chance by sheer virtue of having more software.
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
i don't consider that question trolling at all. it really depends on what you want to do. for me, the next-gen amigas have plenty of power. but then again i'm not using blender to do HD video editing on a regular basis. i have a company-provided PC for all work-related computing. on my next-gen amigas i watch my video collection, do my taxes and home accounting, participate in IRC, browse the web, manage my personal email accounts, figure out my nightly star-gazing, play around with tons of classic amiga apps and games, do digital sketching....
with the possible exception of web browsing, i've never thought, "man, i really need more grunt." but that's just my own use-case. was there something in particular you wanted to do on these machines? maybe that way we could figure out if the next-gen amigas have enough power or not. they make sense for some people (like me) and no sense for others. it just depends.
-- eliyahu
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@above
With a good graphics card raw CPU power would not be as important. I should make a list of any difficult programs that I might use.
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
Yes, it is astonishingly underpowered.
But there is one notable exception: AROS x86
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(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/don-t-panic-remember-reality-is-subjective.png)
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I'm happily chugging along at 33MHz on my classic system, able to do everything I need it to do including browse the web, play mp3's, gaming, etc. These kind of questions really drive me nuts; what's underpowered for one person might be fantastic for someone else, ya know? :griping:
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I'm happily chugging along at 33MHz on my classic system, able to do everything I need it to do including browse the web, play mp3's, gaming, etc. These kind of questions really drive me nuts; what's underpowered for one person might be fantastic for someone else, ya know? :griping:
Yeah, like take my pc for example. 8 core processor with windows 7 and 8 GB ram. What I use it fo? Movies, browse net, Netflix, youtube, watch online movies and play xbox 360 qualities on my pc. Do I ever intend to upgrade ib future? Never! Until I am dead. To others my pc is junk to me it is a rocket
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
What has been your experience with the Amiga NG computers? The ARM chip based devices? Have you found specific OS4.1 programs that you believe would benefit from a more "powerful" ARM CPU? Have you considered porting them to an ARM based device?
If you have not asked yourself these questions, then I think that would be the first step in any inquiry of this nature.
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I just love it when someone wants something different, in a small sub group of platforms than the crowd. But only if spending the same that the crowd does. eg. I want that rare baseball card but throw a fit if they can't buy it at the price of the common cards. Amiga NG is small and unique hardware at the moment, yes it costs more money. That is the price of admission. Just support it or don't, your choice. I for one don't want to here all the people so surprised by reality and how unfair it is. Go use your PC. I am staying here and spending money to support and push forward my platform. Just go use Linux and open source apps. Then you can have some cool stuff that you don't have to pay for. Something tells me that the "I am never satisfide talk" will take place there too. Better yet go build your own hardware, software and apps and then you will have everything that you want just the way you want it. Or will you?
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
Yes. That's why they are adding SMP/AMP support!
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I just love it when someone wants something different, in a small sub group of platforms than the crowd. But only if spending the same that the crowd does. eg. I want that rare baseball card but throw a fit if they can't buy it at the price of the common cards. Amiga NG is small and unique hardware at the moment, yes it costs more money. That is the price of admission. Just support it or don't, your choice. I for one don't want to here all the people so surprised by reality and how unfair it is. Go use your PC. I am staying here and spending money to support and push forward my platform. Just go use Linux and open source apps. Then you can have some cool stuff that you don't have to pay for. Something tells me that the "I am never satisfide talk" will take place there too. Better yet go build your own hardware, software and apps and then you will have everything that you want just the way you want it. Or will you?
Wow, I didn't even see those comments in the thread! I guess I lack perception of such detail. Well, may the Lord Bless you at hitting the nail on the head.
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Of course they are underpowered and overpriced by modern standards but by Amiga standards they are super-powered. It depends on what way you want to look at it. Either you have purchased a slow, expensive PC running an obsolete OS or you have a greatly enhanced (fast) Amiga environment with some modern touches. Both views are legitimate.
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Thanks to JIT emulation it doesn't matter what hardware you have on a Sam or X1 Amiga, a PC is going to have faster hardware. Probably an ARM computer as well.
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Thanks to JIT emulation it doesn't matter what hardware you have on a Sam or X1 Amiga, a PC is going to have faster hardware. Probably an ARM computer as well.
I'm not sure 1 core of arm will be very fast.
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I only picked ARM because there a not any nice OS for it. I would much rather use Amiga OS on it.
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I only picked ARM because there a not any nice OS for it. I would much rather use Amiga OS on it.
May be able to get respectable speed from 3.1?
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I wouldn't hold my breath, and if were started tomorrow, by the time you got it all fully working the worl would be using the LEG processor faimilly and we'd start this conversation again.
Perfect - this post alone is enough for me to decide never ever buy anythig OS4 related, or any new version of PPaint. Your work is obvously moot, all the porting to C was pointless. Thanks for the entertainmemt, cheers.
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Perfect - this post alone is enough for me to decide never ever buy anythig OS4 related, or any new version of PPaint. Your work is obvously moot, all the porting to C was pointless. Thanks for the entertainmemt, cheers.
New PPaint is also in 68k, but it's OK if you go.
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Price to power ratio is skewed towards price. There are some good advancements with Warp3D support etc but I rarely use my Pegasos II anymore, fun to power up now and then to see whats new but not a lot there to be my everyday PC.
Power wise it is lacking, but more importantly software is lacking. The newer hardware appears to be going in the right direction but still not quite there.
Aim for a reasonable mid priced Amiga, with some sort of Office i.e. Open Office, and some way to run PC games and applications via emulation for an example WineX.
This would bridge the gap for awhile as people port over more games, just look at Linux. Of course the way to open it up even further would be to Open source, but hey nobody wants to do that ;-)
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Perfect - this post alone is enough for me to decide never ever buy anythig OS4 related, or any new version of PPaint. Your work is obvously moot, all the porting to C was pointless. Thanks for the entertainmemt, cheers.
Thanks for reminding me to update my Ignore list!
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I am not sure why everything needs to center on "Power, number of cores, MIPS, and the need for speed?" Is it the whole testosterone laden argument than "Mine is bigger, faster, longer, thicker, etc." than yours? Why can't the world be "fast enough" for us? I remember hearing, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, well you might find, you get what you need?"
Of course I heard, "Hey! You! Get off of my cloud" too...
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@ Danbeaver
Power means nothing if the software is not written to take advantage of it.
Power Pc 604:
http://lowendmac.com/2014/cpus-powerpc-604-and-604e/ (http://lowendmac.com/2014/cpus-powerpc-604-and-604e/)
It is a respectable processor
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There's going to be a mandatory ROM lockout of non-approved (hobby) OSs on all new Windows 10 systems. NG Amigas have no chance of becoming mainstream. I'm going back to the classics using FPGA technology. Classics have a better chance by sheer virtue of having more software.
I think you mean Secure boot, this is part of the UEFI which prevents low-level malware like rootkits from interfering with the boot process.
Secure boot has been around since Windows 8, so it's not a new thing that is just Windows 10.
However it's up to the manufacturer of the motherboard (these days the main board) if this will be locked down or if they will provide a toggle. In 99% of cases there is a toggle in the BIOS to disable Secure boot. Most likely this will be the same with new hardware coming through for the Windows 10 generation of devices.
The worse case scenario if the motherboard is locked would be whom ever is working on the AmigaOS to x86 port (well it should really be x64 as x86 is 32bit and PC's these days are x64) contacts the motherborad manufacturer and Microsoft to have the kernel-mode drivers signed and then the motherboard manufacturer adds it the motherboard Secure boot database saying hey I'm not a viruii, malware or rootkit and it's sorted.
This also could be a good thing for AmigaOS, pick one or two PC motherboards and use the UEFI/Secure boot to look the OS to those.
This would create a stable platform and people could concentrate on developing drivers for it making it easier for developers.
Hardware would be cheaper than PPC and you would still have the predictability of what hardware is expected. A lot like a gaming console.
Oh and to add Microsoft already support Ubuntu and Fedora with Secure boot so it wouldn't be a stretch for AmigaOS. The FUD people are spreading stating Microsoft are locking out other OS's is crazy. It is to stop viruii, malware or rootkits and again 99% of the time it can be disabled in the BIOS.
It's also up to the manufacturer of the motherboard in question if it is to be compulsory or what OS's are to be in the Secure boot database on the motherboard not Microsoft.
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I am not sure why everything needs to center on "Power, number of cores, MIPS, and the need for speed?" Is it the whole testosterone laden argument than "Mine is bigger, faster, longer, thicker, etc." than yours? Why can't the world be "fast enough" for us? I remember hearing, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, well you might find, you get what you need?"
Of course I heard, "Hey! You! Get off of my cloud" too...
Think of how fast Blender would be on 2 or 4 cores?
Chris
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[youtube]gupCF8LlpfE[/youtube]
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@ Danbeaver
Power means nothing if the software is not written to take advantage of it.
Power Pc 604:
http://lowendmac.com/2014/cpus-powerpc-604-and-604e/
It is a respectable processor
And "With great power, comes great responsibility!"
So does Great Power come with software to take advantage of it? Or is an over bloated operating system need Great Power to overcome crappy programming practices?
So many questions, so little time!
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Think of how fast Blender would be on 2 or 4 cores?
Chris
Think how fast my home blender would be if I plugged it into 240V rather than 120V?
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Think how fast my home blender would be if I plugged it into 240V rather than 120V?
Better to add 1 or more motors than to blow the only one!
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Two things: I got an Powermac G5 @ 2.7 GHz and the only time it feels slow is when I surf at some heavy web pages (which usually feels sluggish (but not as sluggish) on my quad core pc too), but considering that Amiga was in the internet dark ages just a few years ago I can't complain. Oh, and 1080p MKV movies don't fare too well either but I can live with that. I don't use NG Amigas because of it's power.
Second, please stop complaining about the pricy hardware and that "we must" switch to this or that architecture. The reason we have pricy hardware is because an architectural shift is a huge undertaking with no garuantee of success. So someone actually opened up their wallets to make this hardware so we would have something to play with at all.
As for Amiga becoming mainstream again ... Yeah right. That ship sailed when Escom went belly up in 1996. After that Windows 95, Linux and later OSX came and became the laymens choice of OS. That will not change. We might love AmigaOS, but most people are happy having an app launcher.
Sit back, relax and have fun with what we do have. It's not bad, really!
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Think how fast my home blender would be if I plugged it into 240V rather than 120V?
I'm standing way far back if you do that! :roflmao:
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I'm standing way far back if you do that! :roflmao:
Wouldn't he die if he does that?
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Wouldn't he die if he does that?
Yeah Mike, wouldn't you die if you stood back from the Bass-O-Matic?
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Yeah Mike, wouldn't you die if you stood back from the Bass-O-Matic?
I had to google that reference. Obviously didn't watch very much SNL in my youth. Definitely worth it. :lol:
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Yes, the Safety Zone is right next to the Bass-O-Matic; too far out and the spray of toxic bass could cause immediate death or disability.
p.s., who asks questions like that, really?
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Yes, the Safety Zone is right next to the Bass-O-Matic; too far out and the spray of toxic bass could cause immediate death or disability.
p.s., who asks questions like that, really?
Sounds like my old truck. Feel it for 3 blocks.
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Sounds like my old truck. Feel it for 3 blocks.
One of my long string of sh**y old cars when I was younger was a 1968 Dodge Dart, Slant-6, with a glasspack. The exhaust dumped right after that, right under the body of the car. You'd start that thing up and it would shake the ground, people be all like "You got a 340 in that thing?!" Haha, Slant-6 FTW. :lol:
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One of my long string of sh**y old cars when I was younger was a 1968 Dodge Dart, Slant-6, with a glasspack. The exhaust dumped right after that, right under the body of the car. You'd start that thing up and it would shake the ground, people be all like "You got a 340 in that thing?!" Haha, Slant-6 FTW. :lol:
My old truck also has Headers and a glass pack, but I was referring to the stereo ;-)
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
I hate to troll, but the new PowerPC systems are getting old or seriously old.
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
Questions: What is power? How does one judge what is powerful and what is underpowered in this context? Is it purely subjective or can it be measured objectively?
For some it's simply speeds and feeds, numbers on paper; GHz, TFLOPS, Gbps, IOPS, Cores/Socket, Threads/Core, etc. In essence, the potential of the hardware. There is a good reason why this is the case; It is simple math, the kind most people can understand. And a lot of the time when more of these things are added people see improvement.
But this simple 'hardware potential' to 'calculation performance' equation is only practical when the environment dynamic is normalised. The reality of this is seen in cases when more potential is added and little or no improvement is seen.
For me it is the principle of Empowerment
In the computer HW/SW relationship, HW is predominantly the enabling factor, and software is the empowering factor.
Think back to the Amiga of yore, was any Amiga really powerful in terms of hardware? How many people bought an Amiga for the sheer MHz, or Mbytes of RAM or the amount of storage or the bandwidth of the Zorro bus? When compared to its contemporaries there were obvious reasons why it cost less; Apart from the custom chipset every other off-the-shelf component was for the most part a 'lesser-than' option.
But it was the software that tapped the hardware potential that empowered users to dream and turn those dreams into reality. That is what I call powerful.
Since then the only similar thing I have seen is the iPhone/iOS platform.
So is the the current ilk of Amiga NG systems underpowered? You betcha. Both by ways of hardware potential and empowerment factor. And maybe you're not buying one because on some level you know this already.
PowerPC or Power ISA has become old hat, and most of the major players are predominantly concerned with supporting legacy momentum.
Yes, ARM is the new enabler for all sorts of hardware and is outpacing other architectures in terms of technical and market growth. But as others have already said, a porting effort based on the existing person-hour commitments of any of the Amiga NG operating systems would take way too long.
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I vaguely remember Hyperion saying they would port it to another system at 'the right price.'
If AROS does half the work of making drivers for an ARM platform, maybe they can work together.
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I vaguely remember Hyperion saying they would port it to another system at 'the right price.'
If AROS does half the work of making drivers for an ARM platform, maybe they can work together.
possibly, but i'm not sure the AOS4 development team is all that interested in ARM, especially with new systems in the pipeline. of course AROS is already available for ARM, so if that's your interest, check it out. i haven't used it myself, but my understanding is that on the raspberry pi2, it runs well enough.
-- eliyahu
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The best ARM system I currently own is quad core 1.8 GHz A17 based system.
The X5000 should easily outperform that, but the price difference is astronomical.
Honestly, I really still prefer PPCs to ARM systems.
ARM based boards don't generally feature PCIe expansion slots and other features that I have grown used to.
Their primary advantage is price.
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If you want either ARM, or modern hardware/power, AROS is your only option.
If you want affordability, and an inbuilt emulator rather than a 3rd party emulator for system friendly legacy support there's MOS.
If "the name" is important there's OS4.x.
Seems pretty simple really. They're the options. Pick one, or not, up to you.
In regards to whether the ppc systems are underpowered, then currently, yes at times, and it'll only get moreso with time. Already theyre pushing the limits in some areas, and those areas are only getting heavier and heavier in the "modern" computing world. Slowly but surely more things will become out of reach. Already some containers for 1080p codecs (and some codecs themselves) are too heavy for even the most powerful ppc hardware available, and 1080p can only be seen as a medium resolution these days.
The internet is also getting heavier and heavier content (again, some of which is a strain at best for any ppc hardware). 3d rendering speeds are also archaic in comparison to the modern world.
If you want an idea of what the experience might be like, think of how it might be using pc hardware from around 10 years ago (Athlon/early p4 through to early athlon64/late p4 eras), but without full use of that power (less efficient drivers, features lacking, etc.), because really that's what it is.
Enjoyable enough, but within the context of modern computing they will show shortcomings at times.
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Dr. Emmett Brown (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000502/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Precisely.
Marty McFly (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000150/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Whoa. This is heavy.
Dr. Emmett Brown (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000502/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): There's that word again. "Heavy." Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4138&stc=1&d=1431323541)
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I would agree with most of fishy's summation except for one thing, even though dated my 2.7 GHz dual processor G5 still has about the same power as a current low end X64 system.
And how much power DO you need? After all, are we forgetting that the primary use for ARM processors is still cell phones?
I'm not ready to fully shift my computing to disposable appliances yet.
So while manyof you maybe fixated on laptops, tablets, all in ones, or those cute little mini itx systems, I still want a more conventional PC.
And I can get that with a PPC board.
And IF they ever get around to finishing Aros, I can get all of those forms.
So, what was your objection to NG again?
It can't be the hardware because we have a lot of good choices, many that are damned powerful.
Could it be the state of the NG OS' themselves?
Development is moving slowly, but it is moving.
And, as a MorphOS user (and I actually think this applies to all three NG platforms) I am pretty comfortable with the stated directions all differing developers have said they want to go.
The only market that isn't really being served by NG is composed of those that are satisfied with what the had at the end of the last millennia.
And FPGA pprojects will eventually be developed to suit them.
So, exactly what IS your complaint?
That we have a tiny market and a wealth of choices and fanatically devoted hardware and software developers?
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Pretty sure my only complain being that when Bill McUnEWEN
makes public statements with keyword "Amiga" it will be all over
the WWW and when new Amiga is announced even written newspaper
here pump the news (sometimes just to show off how smart they are
so their boss would think more of them).
When Morphos was ported to PPC Mac there wasn't that many big news
outsides the forums , when AROS says "it seems we are at our end goal"
even less news.
When FPGA Amiga's come to life they will do use under different name and
under cover of darkness (some of them might be lurking out there in the shadows or so the urban myths fortold).
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ARM doesn't have a lot of options. It was only an example.
The upgrade path should be an FPGA computer with PowerPC card if still possible in the next couple of years.
Some people will not want any legacy 68k.
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In ten years PPC will start moving to FPGA projects so I don't see
problem with that.
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I'm not underpowered, am I?
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I'm not underpowered, am I?
Apparently there is no concensus on this yet.
You could try asking your significant other (sorry, that just slipped out).
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Underpowered
I'm not sure, but NG Amiga is definitely lacking features compared to Windows and GNU/Linux.
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Pretty sure my only complain being that when Bill McUnEWEN makes public statements with keyword "Amiga" it will be all over the WWW
When has Fleecy McBill crawled out of his cave to say jack squat in the past few years? Don't think I've seen an announcement from him since about 2006... ain't he dead yet? :lol:
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If you want affordability, and an inbuilt emulator rather than a 3rd party emulator for system friendly legacy support there's MOS.
If "the name" is important there's OS4.x.
I prefer OS4 over MOS because the OS3 look&feel on PPC, not because of it's name.
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I prefer OS4 over MOS because the OS3 look&feel on PPC, not because of it's name.
gotta agree with you. i don't know how the meme of OS4 is only because of 'the name' got started, but it's nonsense, at least for me. i have AROS, MOS, and AOS4 machines -- but use AOS4 nearly all of the time because i enjoy using it more. i wouldn't care what they called it.
-- eliyahu
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I prefer OS4 over MOS because the OS3 look&feel on PPC, not because of it's name.
As you develop under AROS, that doesn't surprise me Staf.
OS4 and AROS both have a look and feel similar to OS3.1.
Since I'm not wedded to that, I prefer Ambient.
Beyond that, MorphOS has a range of feature that OS4 doesn't match.
AROS on the other hand comes closer.
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My complaint is that none of the so called NG systems are worth calling NG, there really is no generation gap between them and OS3.x, everything is essencially still the same. I wish at least one of "NG" options would have guts to move on and create a modern alternative, but it seems that noone is interested.
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My complaint is that none of the so called NG systems are worth calling NG, there really is no generation gap between them and OS3.x, everything is essencially still the same. I wish at least one of "NG" options would have guts to move on and create a modern alternative, but it seems that noone is interested.
There was Amithlon. AROS could evolve into something different. There are lots of projects, but there are not enough developers.
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My complaint is that none of the so called NG systems are worth calling NG, there really is no generation gap between them and OS3.x, everything is essencially still the same. I wish at least one of "NG" options would have guts to move on and create a modern alternative, but it seems that noone is interested.
That is an interesting opinion.
The primary reason I have stuck with MorphOS is the differences.
To me, Ambient is a significant improvement.
As is focusing on OpenGL compatibility instead of trying to continue to develop Warp3D.
And Reggae for media streaming is definately a change.
So, I can see significant differences.
In fact, those look and feel changes are what often get us flack from the rest of the community, but I favor those enhancements.
Hey, I am hoping that when MorphOS splits into seperate ISA paths that the new project moves further away from our roots.
Primarily because I rarely use any legacy software these days, and when I do it is purely for nostalgic reasons.
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Is Amiga NG underpowered and that is why I don't want to buy one?
Any chance of us moving to an ARM platform?
IMO:
-our current PowerPC HW is powerfull enough for the SW that we have
-our current PowerPC HW is "only" too expensive (vs performance) or out of production
-ARM does not provide more power vs PowerPC, x86 does
To get good performance at low end we perhaps should have:
-200eur PPC system (doable as servergy once calculated, 2-4core at 1,4Ghz would be OK)
-use existing HW, like RPi2, but it's slower than our current PPC HW, especially without 3D drivers
-use some x86 design that is available for longer (than normal 3month production) periode
-develop multicore support (it would double the performance of x1000 system or x5000 system, on RPi2 it would boost the speed almost 4x)
( Initially, as I do not control the leading Amiga flavors (Aos4 or morphOS) I personally should focus in helping affordable PPC HW to market. Trying to, actually, but lack of time & focus...)
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I suppose that the IBM POWER8, (64-bit, hex or twelve core, 8 way SMT/core, 5.0 GHz, follows the Power ISA 2.07. Introduced in 2014) just would never be able to catch up with speed of the ARM cpu. I guess I'm just the old dog never able to learn new tricks.
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I suppose that the IBM POWER8, (64-bit, hex or twelve core, 8 way SMT/core, 5.0 GHz, follows the Power ISA 2.07. Introduced in 2014) just would never be able to catch up with speed of the ARM cpu. I guess I'm just the old dog never able to learn new tricks.
I would expect it to exceed ARM's performance, but again at what price?
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I suppose that the IBM POWER8, (64-bit, hex or twelve core, 8 way SMT/core, 5.0 GHz, follows the Power ISA 2.07. Introduced in 2014) just would never be able to catch up with speed of the ARM cpu. I guess I'm just the old dog never able to learn new tricks.
are you serious about using POWER8 processors for a home desktop enduser computer? :confused:
There are some who have much too much money obviously...
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My complaint is that none of the so called NG systems are worth calling NG, there really is no generation gap between them and OS3.x, everything is essencially still the same. I wish at least one of "NG" options would have guts to move on and create a modern alternative, but it seems that noone is interested.
If you want something substantially different, there is Linux. Or Windows. Or IOS. Runs on modern hardware, pretty powerful, avoids a lot of the design problems of AmigaOs. NG is just incompatible enough to 3.x to be uninteresting, but not incompatible enough to be modern.
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are you serious about using POWER8 processors for a home desktop enduser computer? :confused:
Well, it would solve the "my processor is bigger/faster/better than yours" debate, at least for a hot minute. ;)
(http://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2013/01/12/29182/d735ccc1586aed3112301a269e3ca1ba.jpg)
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Well, it would solve the "my processor is bigger/faster/better than yours" debate, at least for a hot minute. ;)
:lol:
at least for some time :)
5.0 Ghz sounds not bad indeed but for the price of one you can propably buy a whole server farm. IBM is known for a lot but not for low prices
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... NG is just incompatible enough to 3.x to be uninteresting, but not incompatible enough to be modern.
This.
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I suppose that the IBM POWER8, (64-bit, hex or twelve core, 8 way SMT/core, 5.0 GHz .
You forgot this is only per chip.
I only have a puny little tiny Power 8.
Only 160 V-cores and only 512 Gigabyte main memory.
processor : 151
cpu : POWER8 (architected), altivec supported
clock : 4116.000000MHz
revision : 2.1 (pvr 004b 0201)
timebase : 512000000
platform : pSeries
model : IBM,8284-22A
machine : CHRP IBM,8284-22A
Just a little system.
But is AMIGA OS supporting it?
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You forgot this is only per chip.
I only have a puny little tiny Power 8.
Only 160 V-cores and only 512 Gigabyte main memory.
But is AMIGA OS supporting it?
Well... just a completely different business... nothing for my living room. (-: But that's the kind of stuff our colleagues from the high performance computing center have to offer. Even though, we don't have any POWERs here: http://www.hlrs.de/systems/platforms/ It's basically all x86 based hardware, except for an NVIDIA cluster. Oh, and an old bench in our lobby, which was a Cray until it was taken out of service. Still works nicely. As a bench, of course.
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I thought we were discussing how under powered the PPC CPU and its architecture were... Not the price.
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I thought we were discussing how under powered the PPC CPU and its architecture were... Not the price.
Why do you hate capitalism?
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Would there be enough Power8 chips to scavenge to make upgrade cards? You only need a around 2000.
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I thought we were discussing how under powered the PPC CPU and its architecture were... Not the price.
Your attempt at witty subterfuge is poorly veiled. It's not about PPC it's about Amiga NG systems. And they are underpowered by many measuring standards. But if you prefer a better term for it then call them 'underwhelming'.
ARM is more "powerful" than the Amiga NG PPC CPUs in terms of price/performance ratio. And there's a lot more buzz at this end of the SKUs.
If people don't know it already they should; The Power 7, 7+, and now 8 are some of the most powerful socketed CPU ICs ever to come off a wafer production line. The only other things in this area of sheer performance per watt are the Intel Xeon Phi and the Nvidia Tesla cores, though the latter two have more specialist architectures and applications.
But as it has already been stated, these things have high price tags attached to them, and none of the Amiga NG OSs could take advantage of them anyway.
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There's going to be a mandatory ROM lockout of non-approved (hobby) OSs on all new Windows 10 systems. NG Amigas have no chance of becoming mainstream. I'm going back to the classics using FPGA technology. Classics have a better chance by sheer virtue of having more software.
Maybe it will cause more homebrew computers which would be a good thing. I am glad they are forcing all of you.
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Why do you hate capitalism?
WOW! Were we discussing capitalism? Oh, that's right, we weren't.
Will let's update that "list" a little more. :)
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I thought we were discussing how under powered the PPC CPU and its architecture were... Not the price.
Page 13 should tell that PPC is not underpowered, at least not for every use...
http://www.freescale.com/files/training_pdf/FTF/2012/americas/WBNR_FTF12_NET_F0027.pdf
;-)
Some examples of blender speed:
23s blender 2,58 G5 2.5Ghz?? QUADcore (OSX)
27s Blender 2.73a AMD A4-3400 APU 2.7 Ghz (2 cores in use) WinXp pro 32bit
112s blender 2.62 PA6T 1.8Ghz Dualcore (LinuxMint)
113s blender 2.62 G4 1.8Ghz DualCPU !
(IIRC, world fastest blender render tests are done in 3s or so, at those speeds one surely must have also very fast HW overall (SSD and perhaps some GL-GPU help even?).)
It would be cool to see how fast blender renders on T4240 development board... could it reach 50% of fastest single CPU i7 systems????
(I have so far not seen any render tests done by e5500 or e6500 core devices.)
more.... vs price thinking:
Locally I found available:
-PlaystationTV e50
-RPi2+case+PSU+etc e90
-tablet e70...xxxx
-modern games console e300...500
-x64 Win8 laptop e199...1xxx
-x64 Win8 Desktop PC e199...5xxx
-x64 Win8 gaming pc e700...5xxx
-Apple OSX computer e1000...4xxx
-old, working G5 mac e100
(-my AOS4.1 system cost me ~1000 including everything, it has RPi caliber CPU but better I/O)
some components:
-intel CPU e80...3XXX (local)
-AMD cpu e60...2XX (local)
-t1014 e40????
-T1042 e80
-T208X e150
.... in HW wise, IMO we mainly lack A1200 kind of NEW low end AmigaLike at game console price range or cheaper, so more people could try it to see if it is any FUN or usable
more...:
-With tablet caliber CPU (2...4 cores @ 1,4...1,8Ghz) and 2D GFX we should be able to do similar productivity stuff than is possible with mainstream tablet HW (we need the SW)
-when RadeonHD GPU is added, we should be able to do similar 3D stuff as tablets and low end games consoles & cheapest low end x86 laptops & dekstops (we need the SW)
-For some high performance needs e6500 core based SoCs should be ok (but not super good and not for every need, especially if maximized single core throughput is essential). (but we need the SW)
We need more powerfull CPUs when we have SW that is slow on the HW that we have (/can afford).
So, IMO, in this order
#1 we need more SW
#2 we need more affordable low end HW (with useable performance, IMO: tablet caliber of performance)
#3 we need multicores taken in use
...
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PPC is dead from a consumer perspective. While there's nothing stopping it from being a hobbyist platform, it's expensive as hell and there's not a lot of hardware to choose from.
X86 is well-supported and cheap, though there's a zillion different hardware configs. Getting it to run on everyone's PC's can be tricky because of this.
ARM is cheap as hell, and there's plenty of real cheap hardware available (the omnipresent Pi and boards like it). The hardware is a bit more uniform, but performance is lower than X86. Still, it's cheap as hell.
I'd prefer a Pi port, but that's subjective.
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While there's nothing stopping it from being a hobbyist platform, it's expensive as hell and there's not a lot of hardware to choose from.
Well, not quite so: There's something very important that stops it from a Hobbyist platform, and you said it: The price!
The real problem is here the way how some Amiga vendors try to address the market: They are basically following a (failed) 1980's strategy of a locked-down special hardware and a closed-source vendor-specific Os on top.
While this strategy worked for some time (shorter for CBM, longer for MS) it becomes more and more obsolete. MS has the market penetration to reach their goals and force vendors into their model, but Amiga has not, so it really makes no sense to follow this idea anymore.
All the "cheapo" hardware products hence operate in an open-source type of market to attract hobbyists, and it seems that this strategy is somewhat more successful.
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Well, not quite so: There's something very important that stops it from a Hobbyist platform, and you said it: The price!
The real problem is here the way how some Amiga vendors try to address the market: They are basically following a (failed) 1980's strategy of a locked-down special hardware and a closed-source vendor-specific Os on top.
While this strategy worked for some time (shorter for CBM, longer for MS) it becomes more and more obsolete. MS has the market penetration to reach their goals and force vendors into their model, but Amiga has not, so it really makes no sense to follow this idea anymore.
All the "cheapo" hardware products hence operate in an open-source type of market to attract hobbyists, and it seems that this strategy is somewhat more successful.
strange to read it from you. are you starting to sympathise with aros?
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If you want something substantially different, there is Linux. Or Windows. Or IOS. Runs on modern hardware, pretty powerful, avoids a lot of the design problems of AmigaOs. NG is just incompatible enough to 3.x to be uninteresting, but not incompatible enough to be modern.
Exactly, that it is the problem I have with "NG", and since 3D games are totally unimpressing to me, Warp3D etc are of little interest. And you should be aware by now that I do use Linux and various BSD (including OSX and iOS) already. Windows just doesn't have the tools I need daily, but it's ok as an occational service in the cloud or in temporary vm.
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strange to read it from you. are you starting to sympathise with aros?
I'm neither for nor against it, I just cannot contribute as a developer without putting it into danger. I'm just giving you my comments about development models. And yes, the open source development model also has a couple of serious drawbacks. Make your pick...
As a meta-comment: You should probably understand that I don't place me on a specific side. I'm not a particular fan of Windows, but I understand why most people use it as "least troublesome Os". I'm not a particular fan of the open source development model, even though I use such products a lot. And contribute...
I've done both. Open source, closed source... It depends on the situation what makes sense for you and your clients. Closed source Amiga might make also some sense. Open source might make some (different) sense depending on what you want.
All I'm saying is that I don't understand the Os 4 closed source model or the Morphos model if that suits you better - maybe it is reasonable for some people, but I personally cannot make much sense of it, so I don't care. Yet, if somebody from Hyperion would come and actually make me an offer to develop something for them, *and actually pay money for that*, would i regret? No, why? It's a job. I don't make this a fundamental decision for or against a specific system. It's the special client-gold coin-developer relationship I feel. (-: No money, no service, quite simple. I'm not *intrinsically* motivated for any NG system to offer anything for free.
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I'm neither for nor against it, I just cannot contribute as a developer without putting it into danger.
you should have realized by now, that i understand your concerns and am not trying to force you towards aros. i just observed that you have rather a critical view on open source, and was a bit amazed that you seemed to shift your sympathies a bit in your above post.
I'm not a particular fan of Windows, but I understand why most people use it as "least troublesome Os". I'm not a particular fan of the open source development model, even though I use such products a lot.
me too. and also here i understand your concerns. open source software is in most cases inferior and shaped after its closed source counterpart. closed model is more efficient to achieve particular goals if there is good administration behind it. its similar to how it behaves in politics or other areas.
All I'm saying is that I don't understand the Os 4 closed source model or the Morphos model if that suits you better - maybe it is reasonable for some people, but I personally cannot make much sense of it, so I don't care.
i cant say i dont understand it. in the meantime i tend to think i can understand these motivations. still, i generally dont see much sense in closed source software development in such a limited community, especially taking the point of view of users, also as potential contributors, into account.
No money, no service, quite simple. I'm not *intrinsically* motivated for any NG system to offer anything for free.
even if i cant contribute what you theoretically could, i feel different about it. i would not offer my service to a company for free, but i have no problem to offer help to a free solution that benefits everybody.
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even if i cant contribute what you theoretically could, i feel different about it. i would not offer my service to a company for free, but i have no problem to offer help to a free solution that benefits everybody.
As said, I do contribute to some projects *if I'm intrinsically motivated*. That depends on the project, and it happened in the past. Os 4 or Morphos is not such a project. That's what I'm saying.
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As said, I do contribute to some projects *if I'm intrinsically motivated*. That depends on the project, and it happened in the past. Os 4 or Morphos is not such a project. That's what I'm saying.
right, im aware about your free contributions of course.
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IF opinions were noses, then everyone would sneeze in your face as if only they had that the right to do so.
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WOW! Were we discussing capitalism? Oh, that's right, we weren't.
Will let's update that "list" a little more. :)
Not going to lose any sleep over you putting me on your ignore list.
But, if you are honestly interested in why that was said, just peruse your "sad" thread and any other thread where you rant on about the poor plebs unable to afford an X1000, or AOS4, or whatever.
Anyways, I'll return the favor, as you've shown no ability to contribute usefully to any of the conversations, either with knowledge about the subject at hand or with witty banter.
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Not going to lose any sleep over you putting me on your ignore list.
But, if you are honestly interested in why that was said, just peruse your "sad" thread and any other thread where you rant on about the poor plebs unable to afford an X1000, or AOS4, or whatever.
Anyways, I'll return the favor, as you've shown no ability to contribute usefully to any of the conversations, either with knowledge about the subject at hand or with witty banter.
i doubt ignore lists have any effect on whomever isnt strong enough to read a post and ignore it out of his own free will.
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i doubt ignore lists have any effect on whomever isnt strong enough to read a post and ignore it out of his own free will.
It doesn't block that they've made a post, just the contents, which is even more useless. For example I tried to block someone who never contributes to any discussions, just posts "stuff for sale" ads all the time, because I didn't want them clogging up the homepage. But they were still visible. Not as useful as the Facebook "block" option. Although that can be kind of funny, too, when you see someone having a one-sided conversation with someone that you've blocked (or who has blocked you). ;)
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My complaint is that none of the so called NG systems are worth calling NG, there really is no generation gap between them and OS3.x, everything is essencially still the same. I wish at least one of "NG" options would have guts to move on and create a modern alternative, but it seems that noone is interested.
I could say the same about Windows NT4 and all the windows after it. Or About the various opensource unix clones. Or about the first and the latest OSX version...
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i doubt ignore lists have any effect on whomever isnt strong enough to read a post and ignore it out of his own free will.
It doesn't block that they've made a post, just the contents, which is even more useless. For example I tried to block someone who never contributes to any discussions, just posts "stuff for sale" ads all the time, because I didn't want them clogging up the homepage. But they were still visible. Not as useful as the Facebook "block" option. Although that can be kind of funny, too, when you see someone having a one-sided conversation with someone that you've blocked (or who has blocked you). ;)
Meh. i don't really care, as danbeaver's posts aren't really worth getting excited about blocked or unblocked. I simply thought it funny that every time someone calls him on his crap he trots the "ZOMG - you are teh ignoreds! ROFL!", thought I'd try it on, since it seems to get his motor running.
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I could say the same about Windows NT4 and all the windows after it. Or About the various opensource unix clones. Or about the first and the latest OSX version...
Not exactly...there are considerable differences between the first and last OSX, or even tiger and yosemite. Try throwing Ubuntu 5.04 and 15.04 on a virtualbox and tell me they are the same. Even NT4 and 7. Huge differences. Key words are "progressive improvements".
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@thread
flamebaiting and personally insulting fellow members are not allowed. please keep things friendly.
-- eliyahu
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@thread
flamebaiting and personally insulting fellow members are not allowed. please keep things friendly.
-- eliyahu
Is it OK if we just point out the obvious? :roflmao:
(http://rlv.zcache.com/beaver_liquors_sticker-r53893613a6124e5c8a03bae06a022250_v9wth_8byvr_512.jpg%253Fbg%253D0xffffff)
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I vaguely remember Hyperion saying they would port it to another system at 'the right price.'
If AROS does half the work of making drivers for an ARM platform, maybe they can work together.
What's the point in "porting" OS4 to x86, you're just re-inventing the wheel, AROS is already there, the only thing it lacks is "the name".
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gotta agree with you. i don't know how the meme of OS4 is only because of 'the name' got started, but it's nonsense, at least for me. i have AROS, MOS, and AOS4 machines -- but use AOS4 nearly all of the time because i enjoy using it more. i wouldn't care what they called it.
-- eliyahu
Basically you enjoy using "Workbench", if you really do prefer WB to Ambient or Dopus you can also use it in MorphOS.
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Meh. i don't really care, as danbeaver's posts aren't really worth getting excited about blocked or unblocked. I simply thought it funny that every time someone calls him on his crap he trots the "ZOMG - you are teh ignoreds! ROFL!", thought I'd try it on, since it seems to get his motor running.
Eh, I'm sure if you ran into a bar you'd have a pint with him. :pint: :pint:
People complain all day long on the forums, but really this is still one of the nicer ones I'm on. Those DD-WRT guys make me want to murder someone! ;)
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PPC is dead from a consumer perspective. While there's nothing stopping it from being a hobbyist platform, it's expensive as hell and there's not a lot of hardware to choose from.
X86 is well-supported and cheap, though there's a zillion different hardware configs. Getting it to run on everyone's PC's can be tricky because of this.
ARM is cheap as hell, and there's plenty of real cheap hardware available (the omnipresent Pi and boards like it). The hardware is a bit more uniform, but performance is lower than X86. Still, it's cheap as hell.
I'd prefer a Pi port, but that's subjective.
I agree with the ARM choice but - ODROID C1 (1.5Ghz quad core CPUs and eMMC 4.5) would be another alternative for the same price range but faster and with an eMMC drive capability.
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IF opinions were noses, then everyone would sneeze in your face as if only they had that the right to do so.
And if lame parables were lemonade we'd all find a different use for our lemons.
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Eh, I'm sure if you ran into a bar you'd have a pint with him. :pint: :pint:
I'd have to run into it pretty hard :p
Just kidding. I've found that despite their opinions on certain matters most people are good drinking company. That said, any of you see me in Mountain View for Amiga 30, I'll buy you a drink.
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I'd have to run into it pretty hard :p
Just kidding. I've found that despite their opinions on certain matters most people are good drinking company. That said, any of you see me in Mountain View for Amiga 30, I'll buy you a drink.
Wow, did I totally type that wrong or what? :lol:
Cheers! :pint: :pint:
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PPC is dead from a consumer perspective. While there's nothing stopping it from being a hobbyist platform, it's expensive as hell and there's not a lot of hardware to choose from.
PPC Macs are cheap and powerful :)
X86 is well-supported and cheap, though there's a zillion different hardware configs. Getting it to run on everyone's PC's can be tricky because of this.
ARM is cheap as hell, and there's plenty of real cheap hardware available (the omnipresent Pi and boards like it). The hardware is a bit more uniform, but performance is lower than X86. Still, it's cheap as hell.
From those two x86 (x64) is more powerful. So if performance is your goal you choose x86 platform. If you want to go mobile then ARM. Or both. Dump idea of having native code and compile everything to 68k target and have 68k emulator built-in.
I'd prefer a Pi port, but that's subjective.
Actually RPi is one of the worst ARM offerings. There are cheaper and faster ARM based boards available but they are less famous and people always think there is only RPi...
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PPC is dead from a consumer perspective. While there's nothing stopping it from being a hobbyist platform, it's expensive as hell and there's not a lot of hardware to choose from.
X86 is well-supported and cheap, though there's a zillion different hardware configs. Getting it to run on everyone's PC's can be tricky because of this.
ARM is cheap as hell, and there's plenty of real cheap hardware available (the omnipresent Pi and boards like it). The hardware is a bit more uniform, but performance is lower than X86. Still, it's cheap as hell.
I'd prefer a Pi port, but that's subjective.
curious ..are 020/030/040 or 060 chips used for anything these days ?? apart from our aging amiga
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curious ..are 020/030/040 or 060 chips used for anything these days ?? apart from our aging amiga
I know the 040 was used in the JAS 39 Gripen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen) Swedish fighter jet. I don't know if they have upgraded it to something else recently though, but it wouldn't surprice me if they didn't. Military usually buys a LOT of spare parts.
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Actually RPi is one of the worst ARM offerings. There are cheaper and faster ARM based boards available but they are less famous and people always think there is only RPi...
Glad I didn't have to point that out myself.
I frequently get faulted (fairly enough) for my negativity.
Personally, I'm not interested in downgrading my hardware that far.
However, MorphOS is a better target for that platform than Linux.
So it is really a matter of where your prorities lay, with the hardware or the software.
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curious ..are 020/030/040 or 060 chips used for anything these days ?? apart from our aging amiga
Not really, '030s can still be obtained, but finding good '040s or '060s can be difficult.
When it comes to 68K family processors, its eaisier to implement an fpga.
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PPC Macs are cheap and powerful :)
From those two x86 (x64) is more powerful. So if performance is your goal you choose x86 platform. If you want to go mobile then ARM. Or both. Dump idea of having native code and compile everything to 68k target and have 68k emulator built-in.
Actually RPi is one of the worst ARM offerings. There are cheaper and faster ARM based boards available but they are less famous and people always think there is only RPi...
PPC Macs are definitely available, but they're not being produced anymore. If we'd base everything on them then we'd actually be planning to use a dying platform (which is irellevant, because we're discussing Amiga, but anyway).
I'd prefer the Pi because of it's popularity and not because it's performance. AmigaOS is designed with even weaker hardware in mind so I doubt it would pose a problem.
Mind you, I wouldn't have anything against support for multiple ARM platforms. It would still be easier than trying to support x86.
As for using emulation to achieve everything, well, we can allways make an OS using an emulator running on Linux, or use some kind of universal binary that will run under any OS that has a VM for it... ;)
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Underpowered is a pretty broad term. I've never had a single gripe about the performance of my SAM 440, but then again, I never bought the thing with any intentions of trying to encode video or do rendering or something on it.
It does everything I ask of it, which admittedly are "Amiga only" type things. I don't expect it to stream video in 4k like the dual 980 GTX, 6 core, 64 GB RAM PC I'm typing this on, so I've never had much to complain about with it.
It's a niche/hobby system, one that was fairly pricey, I'll admit, but it's been a good experience for me, just like my MOS machines have been.
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Is Amiga NG underpowered?
It really depends on what you want to do.
My Amiga NG system is not a racehorse, but it works well and runs my favourite programs. I have a choice of six web browsers, some 68K programs and some PPC programs. I use Final Writer 97, TVPaint, and PPaint. I use E-UAE to provide a compatible base for AmigaOS 3.1 for some very old games and programs that like to see the Amiga Classic hardware.
However, I find that I am using my Samsung tablet more often for web browsing, only because it is convenient. I don't have to get up off the sofa to go to my workstation. ;)
---
redfox
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Personally, I'm not interested in downgrading my hardware that far.
However, MorphOS is a better target for that platform than Linux.
By the time anything ARM based is as polished as MorphOS is now on PPC, you'll be able to by a 6th generation rPI several rimes faster than a QuadG5 or even one of the (current) Power8 systems.
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By the time anything ARM based is as polished as MorphOS is now on PPC, you'll be able to by a 6th generation rPI several rimes faster than a QuadG5 or even one of the (current) Power8 systems.
you mean by the time OS is ported to ARM, most AMIGA fans will spend their last days in a nursery home?
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you mean by the time OS is ported to ARM, most AMIGA fans will spend their last days in a nursery home?
That is a pretty accurate statement Gunnar.
AND fpga accelerators will have advanced far enough to actual place legacy hardware in real contention.
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you mean by the time OS is ported to ARM, most AMIGA fans will spend their last days in a nursery home?
Sure you meant nursing home.
I tell you though, if I had the choice I'd rather go out in a nursery. Nursing homes are too depressing.
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you mean by the time OS is ported to ARM, most AMIGA fans will spend their last days in a nursery home?
Not sure how old you are, but I expect ARM (or more precise cheap ARM like used in rPI) to reach that level of power in a few years.
As to porting/polishing the OS..... *shrug* AROS sure has the resources to do it in <5 years, but those resources are spread thin into 2486 directions, MorphOS hasn't really started, real development on AmigaOS68k is hampered in red tape and don't even get me started on OS4.
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Not sure how old you are, but I expect ARM (or more precise cheap ARM like used in rPI) to reach that level of power in a few years.
As to porting/polishing the OS..... *shrug* AROS sure has the resources to do it in <5 years, but those resources are spread thin into 2486 directions, MorphOS hasn't really started, real development on AmigaOS68k is hampered in red tape and don't even get me started on OS4.
What would be the end result? Another "wanna-be" AmigaOs, which is in fact years behind any Linux system on the same hardware? You still don't get all the 68K applications to run on it natively, so you need an emulator for them. So if that's acceptable, what is exactly wrong with x86?
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Did I ever say anything was wrong with x86 ??
I was just pointing out that "ARM is to slow" wasn't a valid argument.