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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: tonyvdb on May 05, 2015, 01:50:28 AM

Title: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 05, 2015, 01:50:28 AM
so I managed to get my hands on a virtually new A4000d with a revision D motherboard (with coin cell battery).
It was sitting in storage for years and the case is still white, no yellowing at all.
My question is other than the battery being a coin and the chip ram soldered directly to the motherboard are there any other differences?
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on May 05, 2015, 02:07:00 AM
If it is the CR version, a 68EC030 soldered to the motherboard?

I assume you saw this already:  http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a4000.html
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 05, 2015, 02:14:57 AM
Yes, I did read that and it answered some of my questions. And yes the one I have is the CR version. I'm assuming I can still place a 3640 in it?
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Matt_H on May 05, 2015, 03:04:17 AM
Yes, although you may need to adjust some jumpers. I think the rev D 4000's that shipped with 040s actually omitted the 030 from the motherboard. Commodore did the same on the 3000T-040.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: danbeaver on May 05, 2015, 03:54:01 AM
The CR model has pins for an external battery, like the A4000T...
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: AmiDude on May 05, 2015, 10:51:01 AM
Some A4000D motherboards had 68030 CPU directly soldered on board,
others didn't.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Brian on May 05, 2015, 04:19:41 PM
The RevD board with 030 CPU installed is by far the best A4000 motherboard, congrats.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 05, 2015, 07:49:24 PM
Thanks everyone. Commodore really could not make up there minds, there seems to be many revisions of the board even within the same series LOL I also found out it has the 3640 installed already.
Looking forward to getting everything going :)
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Brian on May 05, 2015, 10:35:56 PM
Cross your fingers that the board still have the 030 onboard, if it's missing you're also likely to be missing the 50Mhz oscillator at U104 (the motherboard takes this signal from the 3640 CPU card). The result is that it won't work with asynchronous CPU boards since you won't get the correct clock when changing J100/J104 to INT... might just be to add this oscillator to the motherboard however since it's low cost there isn't a socket for it so you have to get out your soldering tools.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 06, 2015, 12:41:36 AM
Hmm, ok that's interesting. I will see once I receive it and report back
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: spaceman88 on May 06, 2015, 08:08:50 PM
I had one of these ( it was a "Video Toaster" model), no 68030 on board, had an A3640 with the capacitors actually installed correctly. It had a black screen when I got it, so I sent it off to Anthony Hoffman in NZ, but he was unable to fix it.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: danbeaver on May 06, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: spaceman88;788929
I had one of these ( it was a "Video Toaster" model), no 68030 on board, had an A3640 with the capacitors actually installed correctly. It had a black screen when I got it, so I sent it off to Anthony Hoffman in NZ, but he was unable to fix it.


Odd you should add this post; I bought a CR version like the one above from someone I really trust who told me at least twice what a sweet motherboard it was.  I waited a month to get it tested and it is quite dead.  I am now waiting for Anthony to get back from the deep south in October to see what is wrong.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: spaceman88 on May 07, 2015, 02:20:47 AM
Quote from: danbeaver;788935
Odd you should add this post; I bought a CR version like the one above from someone I really trust who told me at least twice what a sweet motherboard it was.  I waited a month to get it tested and it is quite dead.  I am now waiting for Anthony to get back from the deep south in October to see what is wrong.


I found out later that the power supply was also bad in this system and wondered if it may have fried the board. I'm not sure what kind of over voltage protection those power supplies had. I also sent Anthony a "regular" 4000 board (bad caps, battery damage) at the same time, that he was able to fix.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: danbeaver on May 07, 2015, 03:02:25 AM
Quote from: spaceman88;788943
I found out later that the power supply was also bad in this system and wondered if it may have fried the board. I'm not sure what kind of over voltage protection those power supplies had. I also sent Anthony a "regular" 4000 board (bad caps, battery damage) at the same time, that he was able to fix.

I have used him for around five Amiga motherboards and a couple of A3640's; I am waiting to send him two more motherboards and 2 A3640's.  His technical reports are insanely detailed, you gotta love them!
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 16, 2015, 08:09:32 PM
So, got the A4000 and took a couple pictures. Any thoughts?

A4000 case
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/3551/3_image.jpg

Inside, revD motherboard
I removed the A3640 for a better view.
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/3551/4_image.jpg

It was mentioned that some revD motherboards shipped without the 50mhz oscillator, where is it located and can someone see on the above photo if it's there?
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on May 16, 2015, 08:28:35 PM
If it were me, I'd start by looking right here:

I think the first spot is for the 68030 oscillator, and the second is for an optional FPU oscillator (which could be clocked independently).  Neither of which you appear to have, hence why no oscillators, either.

Disclaimer:  I found this information on Google.  :lol:
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 16, 2015, 08:38:35 PM
So, how does that effect the use of this if I put the A3640 in? Will it run normally as a video toaster system?
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on May 16, 2015, 08:44:45 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;789416
So, how does that effect the use of this if I put the A3640 in? Will it run normally as a video toaster system?

I don't know, how well will a computer run without a processor in it?  :lol:

Hint: I think it will run a lot better with the A3640 (or some other processor card) installed.  :)
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on May 16, 2015, 08:47:32 PM
Amiga.resource.cx has a picture of a fully populated Rev. D CR board on it:

http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo2.pl?id=a4000&pg=1&res=hi&lang=en

Obviously yours, lacking the motherboard processor, will not work at all without the A3640 installed.  ;)
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 16, 2015, 08:50:28 PM
Ok, but I have the a3640 so all is good right? Not having the oscillator won't make a difference if I have the 3640 installed
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: SACC-guy on May 16, 2015, 08:52:43 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;789416
So, how does that effect the use of this if I put the A3640 in? Will it run normally as a video toaster system?
The video toaster ran quite well in the a2000 with 030
It will run with a 030 card in the 4000 as well...
But it (toaster or toaster 4000)will run better with an 040 card! or...

At the end of toaster 4000 time, I was using an 060 card with 128 megs. It was great!
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on May 16, 2015, 08:54:32 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;789419
Ok, but I have the a3640 so all is good right? Not having the oscillator won't make a difference if I have the 3640 installed

Correct.  The empty space on yours for a 50MHz oscillator would be to drive the 68030 processor, which yours also doesn't have.  And the other empty oscillator space would be to drive the 68882 FPU.  Remember, Commodore was cheap and did a lot of weird things back in the day.  So your MB has the space for these components, but no actual components installed.  It was most likely sold with the A3640 already installed, so why bother including them?  You could probably add them, but not really any point in that, since even the A3640 will give you much better performance than having a 68030 on the motherboard.  ;)

Edit:  If it weren't already obvious, the A3640 appears to include it's own oscillator:  http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/a3640_2_big.jpg
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 16, 2015, 08:56:56 PM
Ok, thank you. I understand now :)
Now to swap my old glitchy board for this one.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 17, 2015, 12:30:33 AM
Just curious, is there issues with the a3640 version 3.1 as that is what it came with? I know some had issues with caps or something being installed backwards?
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on May 17, 2015, 12:55:36 AM
Quote from: tonyvdb;789426
Just curious, is there issues with the a3640 version 3.1 as that is what it came with? I know some had issues with caps or something being installed backwards?

There are various notes about the revisions here, and in many other places on the web:

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=250

It's a well-documented board.  Honestly if it were me, and not knowing anything about the history of your particular A3640, I'd send it off to a reputable tech for inspection and cap replacement "just to be sure" before I put it into day-to-day use.

But that's just me, and I might be a little over-cautious about these things.  ;)

After that, if you intend to stick with the A3640 (and not mortgage your house to be able to afford a PPC board), do something fun like throw a Quaddoubler (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/quaddoubler) on there.  :)
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 17, 2015, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;789427


After that, if you intend to stick with the A3640 (and not mortgage your house to be able to afford a PPC board), do something fun like throw a Quaddoubler (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/quaddoubler) on there.  :)


That looks interesting!
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: danbeaver on May 17, 2015, 02:14:11 AM
It should, but you will need the Toaster hardware and software for the "full fairy land" experience of a  Video Toaster System.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 17, 2015, 02:28:35 AM
No problem there as I already have everything. True it's obsolete but it's fun to play with and Lightwave projects can be exported between the Amiga and my PC.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: spaceman88 on May 17, 2015, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;789426
Just curious, is there issues with the a3640 version 3.1 as that is what it came with? I know some had issues with caps or something being installed backwards?


On my rev. D the 3640 ver. 3.1 the caps were installed correctly (they looked wrong if you went by the markings on the board), but you would have to compare yours to some pictures on the Web to be sure.
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: tonyvdb on May 19, 2015, 03:42:46 PM
Ok, The a3640 has the caps installed correctly. I switched out everything and Im up and running fully again Yay!

Thanks everyone for all the help
Title: Re: Amiga 4000 revD?
Post by: Brian on May 19, 2015, 04:35:23 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;789428
That looks interesting!


You could also upgrade the 040 to a 060 with this little kit (http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?71565-68040-68060-Adapter-%28for-A3640-Warpengine%29-COMPLETE-KIT-5TH-BATCH-%28APRIL-2015%29).