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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: tekmage on March 29, 2015, 11:18:14 PM

Title: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: tekmage on March 29, 2015, 11:18:14 PM
As part of the our effort to honor the Amiga 30th anniversary, we will
have a complete line up of Amiga systems. Machines will include the
Lorraine prototype boards, first Amiga 1000 off the assembly line, every
C= machine, all the Amiga NG systems. Basically if it was designed to run
AmigaOS or a Amiga inspired OS it will be running.

So imagine it's July 25th 2015. There is a long display, 90 feet with 30
machines, each one is running and waiting for someone to sit down and use
it. Those guests may be people new to the Amiga, the original designers
like Dave Needle and Dale Luck, or folks who have not seen an Amiga in 20
years.

That begs the question: what should we show them?

We have 30 years with of software, 3 classic chipsets, high and low end,
Aros, MorphOS, AmigaOS 4, etc.  This is opens us up to be able to show
lots and lots of software. So what are the signature pieces of software
that show off the generations of Amiga?  Given the time and the
connections I'm confident we can obtain a working copy of virtually
anything, but what!?

I'm opening this thread up, and will cross post to other sites and boards,
to collect thoughts and suggestions from the Amiga community. To provide
some structure here's one way to categorize the eras and areas:

* OCS
* ECS, high and low ends
* AGA, high and low ends
* RTG
* AROS
* MorphOS
* AmigaOS 4

Let's hear from you!  What app, game or demo really embodies the Amiga
through time.  Break it down by category or not.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: save2600 on March 29, 2015, 11:39:38 PM
Among whatever else, the NewTek demos of course!   :lol:
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: QuikSanz on March 30, 2015, 12:30:03 AM
@tekmage,

Hmm, tough call. Maybe high end classic running quake, a low end classic running productivity and maybe a good Hollywood presentation on OS4.1.

Chris
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: JimDrew on March 30, 2015, 01:02:22 AM
What about emulations?  During our haydays, I was selling EMPLANT systems and making special software for companies like Amblin Entertainment.  They were using EMPLANT equipped Amigas in place of real Macs to run Avid video editing software/hardware.  Typically they used A2000's with 040 cards, and a Picasso video card. A single Amiga box could run the Toaster one day, and Avid the next.  The cost savings of not having to rent a studio just to use Avid systems paid for all their Amigas in the first few days.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Tenacious on March 30, 2015, 04:49:39 AM
I would think the low spec systems could be used to showcase some the most loved games and demos (especially those that were difficult for other platforms of the time).  

Some of the unusual (on other platforms) hardware configurations might be of interest, like a low spec machine running a RAD with only extra FAST ram.  Warm booting would be amazingly fast as would calling programs from RAD.  This might be a good system to demo the awesome power of the dir utils (advanced and almost unique) that evolved on the Amiga.  (Strangely, Amiga always had much more of its share of text readers as well. Other platforms used editors to read a file.)

Examples of original, low spec machines doing things that evolved years later, like playing Mp3s with a MasPlayer.

Pick a popular serial linked game and have that running on 2 machines.

Moving up to more expanded systems, an Amiga could be linked to the net.  If an older browser is used, perhaps sites should be limited to compatible ones like Aminet, Wikipedia, etc.

For those attendees who are unfamiliar with Amiga, it would be great to show off what is under the hood hardware and software wise.  Those admired attributes of the OS (dynamically allocated ram disk, multitasking, logical and straight forward system organization, the way the cli AND workbench were tightly integrated (WB was not splashed on top of a DOS, they were 2 facets of the same powerful OS), the clever icon system, the very small size and responsiveness of the system (near realtime) etc.) could be demo'ed.

Much could be said of the Amiga's native sound abilities, not only great quality playback, but sampling as well.  We made this (http://aminet.net/mods/smpl/VoiceOfAmiga.lha) in a matter of days with a DSS8+.  (Shameless plug, :))

It would be excellent if an Amiga could be set up to run a presentation with sound and images of its own history, technology, features, etc in a long continuous loop, all unassisted by a user!  An interactive presentation would be even better, if not harder to produce in the time allotted.  Amiga was, after all, billed as the first multimedia platform!

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: NorthWay on March 30, 2015, 10:19:18 AM
Boing!
RoboCity
"This is Amiga talking" (some kind of demo of the text to speech system)
Marble Madness, Defender of the Crown (two of the "killer-apps" games that sold the A1000)
Shadow of the Beast (one of the big A500 sellers)
Deluxe Paint (or wossname that Jim Sachs made the beautiful AGA image for)
A slideshow of Jim Sachs paintings
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Tenacious on March 30, 2015, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: NorthWay;786961
Boing!
RoboCity
"This is Amiga talking" (some kind of demo of the text to speech system)
Marble Madness, Defender of the Crown (two of the "killer-apps" games that sold the A1000)
Shadow of the Beast (one of the big A500 sellers)
Deluxe Paint (or wossname that Jim Sachs made the beautiful AGA image for)
A slideshow of Jim Sachs paintings

Yes!  I have no idea what the venue or atmosphere on offer at CHM is like, but, imagine several Amigas (perhaps serially linked) running slide shows, running demos, converting text to speech, etc while one talks (hopefully, in a sampled voice and thru some large speakers ;)) about the others and what they are running, about its own specs, about Jim's art background and obvious accomplishments, highlights of the OS, about Fred Fish and Aminet (at one time, the largest archive of any platform), details of how that machine is doing its own presentation (not a video tape!), the work of Jay Minor and other Amiga visionaries, etc.

Maybe these Amigas could be arranged in an entry way or along the approach to the main show but a little separated from all the hubbub and noise of 50 people talking at once.  

It would be a tremendous testament if the Amiga could present itself, without an operator  and intervention!  What other computer from 30 years ago has ever done this?
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: NorthWay on March 30, 2015, 05:46:58 PM
Ah yes, how could I forget Aminet. Set up one machine with a browser pointing to it.

I'd also suggest a machine loaded with all the possible strange and cool handlers there are. Things like FTP:, HTTP:, compression directory overlays, that editor I never remember that you could read the open files from directly through a handler etc.

Datatypes should be showing somewhere. That is something that I think nobody except Be has tried properly.

Bootable/loadable filesystems. One machine should be jammed full of all the filesystems you can find (hm, you'll hit the limit on the number of disk RDBs you have) and mount.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: bladerunner1963 on March 30, 2015, 06:43:22 PM
Deluxe Paint for sure, Digi Paint as well.

Amiga Live! with Invision.

Genlock.

Some of the original software like Textcraft, Graphicraft, Musiccraft (became Sonix).

jb

p.s. Oh, and of course the Walker Demo! As good as the juggler imho.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Duce on March 30, 2015, 08:41:32 PM
Quote from: NorthWay;787013
Ah yes, how could I forget Aminet. Set up one machine with a browser pointing to it.


As much as Aminet was a revolution to us, especially in the early days, having a terminal (be it a 'netted A500 or an X1000/MOS/AROS box running on gigabit ethernet), a "demo box" of Aminet would be about as exciting as a dry fart in a warm wind in this modern world.  It's effectively a static download website, and somewhere most of us have been pulling files from for over 20 years either via HTTP or FTP.  No offense intended, but it's just not display material meant to impress in this day and age of being able to download files at high speeds 20,000 feet in the air on a jetliner on a device that fits in your shirt pocket.

Aminet is a tremendous resource, but having a demo box dedicated to showing a bland (albeit very functional and wholly important to the Amiga scene for 20+ years) download site such as Aminet would be like watching paint dry.  Might as well just throw a 3.5" floppy container down on a table with a collection of Fred Fish disks and call it an interactive display.  Aminet is just a download site, nothing exotic or fancy.  Terribly important to us Amigans, but not a first of a first in the early computer scene if you consider the other platforms at all.  In fact, mid 90's it couldn't even compare size wise to the Pee Cee or Mac file download sites.  

I say this as a guy that to this day still runs a BBS that I mirror all of Aminet to my filebase once a week - not a knock against Aminet in the least!  (Not that anyone has a deep desire to grab Aminet files off my BBS with ZModem via Telnet, heh.  I think I've had about 30 downloads in the last year on my BBS as a whole.)

My vote?  The Toaster *made* the Amiga.  If you don't have an extensive Toaster display booth, you might as well not even bother with historical displays.  Same goes for gaming.

A DPaint and other early graphics software showcase is also a must.

I hope the whole event doesn't just turn into some masquerade of the OG Amiga stuff being on the sidelines as a "thoughtful consideration" while the NG platforms get flogged to death as the Second Coming, and a lot of people have such concerns with the event itself being sponsored by a NG hardware manufacturer.  

The bigger thing that needs to document in regards to the Amiga is just the atmosphere that was floating around when the Amiga came to be.  No one knew what they were doing.  No one was following a marketing plan, trying to figure out what would sell.  The computer industry was virgin soil and a bunch of guys got lucky enough to get enough funding to attempt to build the computer *THEY* would want to own.

I was lucky enough to talk to Jay Miner years ago and something he said to me stuck with me deeply, and that was "It was early days, we were just trying to build a machine we all wanted to own, the best machine you could dream of".

I'd like to think they succeeded, and then some.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: NorthWay on March 30, 2015, 08:47:24 PM
Quote from: Duce;787024
The Toaster *made* the Amiga.

That is so US centric I don't know if I should laugh or cry. It isn't false, but it simply isn't true for the biggest part of the Amiga user base.

Now, all my suggestions do not need one machine for just the one thing, you might be able to stuff it all into just a small handful, but I would suggest some kind of posters sitting next to the machine pointing out the features available for peruse, or if there is some suitable Powerpoint substitute so the machines can announce it themselves.

Which reminds me that you might want to show Scala too.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: itix on March 30, 2015, 09:03:55 PM
Considering OCS Amigas I think old DPaint and SoundTracker could be worth it. They are outdated but audience could try some old classic images and tracks just for memories.

Have some old classic demos and games running. There is plenty to choose from...

When it comes to AROS, AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS it is probably better let people tinker with those machines with whatever software they have there. Just give some instructions what software there is and how to try it out. People maybe don't know that OWB is a web browser and so on...
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: itix on March 30, 2015, 09:06:17 PM
Quote from: NorthWay;787025
That is so US centric I don't know if I should laugh or cry. It isn't false, but it simply isn't true for the biggest part of the Amiga user base.


Being US centric show it makes sense. I expect most visitors are from NA and only few from Europe.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Duce on March 30, 2015, 09:31:46 PM
The Toaster *DID* make the Amiga in North America, just like how gaming made a name for the platform in the rest of the world.  Didn't mean it as a slight, but as far as I am concerned, it's a fact I saw with my own eyes on this side of the pond.

From personal experience, over here in North America, big box Amiga's were the norm, the wedge boxes being seen ultimately as gaming systems or to harsher extremes - "toys", at least in the scene I grew up in, and I bought a handful of Amiga systems off the showroom floor, brand new in the 90's.

Other than one or two A500's, I didn't even see anything *but* big box Miggy's over here outside of on dealer floors until the A1200 launched.  Maybe I was in a different scene, I suppose - me and all my buddies were productivity, graphics, sound and especially BBS guys with little interest in gaming and total interest in expansion, so we always went for the big boxers.  I didn't even own a wedge Amiga until 2008, actually (and despised it, tbh).  I've literally used the C= tower Amiga's more than I have the wedge systems in this neck of the woods, they just were not that sought after, and a lot of that over here is due to the Toaster and other similar things.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: weirdami on March 31, 2015, 04:57:07 AM
Quote from: bladerunner1963;787016

p.s. Oh, and of course the Walker Demo!


Speaking of Walker, who has the Walker prototype these days?
Title: less jazzy ideas
Post by: weirdami on March 31, 2015, 05:28:00 AM
The Amiga had a whole range of experiences. It's historical to show the lower end of them, too.

What about games that didn't have such great sound or graphics but were fun anyway. For example, Adventures Through Time.

There's got to be an OCS machine cranking through a 3D render the whole time. You could time it so that it finishes right at the end of the event and people could cheer on the last few lines. (Or even have a contest to get a prize if someone guesses the correct render time.)

There should be a VCR playing a tape with old commercials and promos on a big old CRT TV. I remember that Amiga World had an animation contest. Does anyone have a copy of the winning entries? That would be cool to add, too.

What about an A500 connected to a TV with an A520?
Title: Re: less jazzy ideas
Post by: agami on March 31, 2015, 06:49:18 AM
My suggestions:

Productivity (non-Toaster machine)
- Scenery Animator
- Scala MM400
- Bars and Pipes
- Octamed / Protracker
- Art Department Pro

Games
- Flashback
- Stardust
- Lemmings / Worms
- Alien Breed
- Simulcra
- Spindizzy Worlds
- Wings

On a Toaster box you would have Lightwave 3D or whatever other Toaster specific apps were cool.

An Amiga 1000 with the Boing Ball demo.

A machine playing on a loop in a window the intro sequence to Babylon 5 or SeaQuest DSV.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Zordar on March 31, 2015, 11:00:30 PM
I have an interesting request actually, We've all seen both of Newtek's DemoReels (1 & 3) but what about DemoReel 2?  I actually remember seeing DemoReel 2 running in (around) the late 80s on an A500, while attending the Chicago AmiExpo.  I was told that it will never see the light of day  in the wild because of copyright issues - the Demoreel was composed of full screen video clips running from 2 (?) floppies.  The only clip I can somewhat remember is a scene staring captain Kirk from an old Trek episodes.

Would we be able to see this elusive DemoReel at the 30th celebration, or at least get some insight from a Newtek personality about the history/story behind it?
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: LoadWB on April 01, 2015, 03:41:51 AM
@agami: Don't forget Juggler.  That's pretty iconic.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Matt_H on April 01, 2015, 05:08:26 PM
I'd love to see DOpus 1.x or 2.x to be able to see where it's come from. Earliest I've seen is 3.x, and of course 4.x, 5.x, and the Windows versions are commonly used.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Amiga_CDTV on April 01, 2015, 06:37:14 PM
Early Amiga 1000s came bundled with the Mind Walker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA1qz2QQ89E) (game, as in my avatar). I'd say that's a classic game worth showing in all it's eerie weirdness (love the music). I can already image an A1000 on a display in a dimmed room with this music playing on the background :lol:

Regarding Babylon 5 etc, I'd also like to mention Max Headroom's later episodes where the credits include: "Production computer equipment provided by Commodore Business Machines, Amiga Division".
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: weirdami on April 02, 2015, 02:50:11 AM
Quote from: Amiga_CDTV;787146
...Max Headroom's later episodes where the credits include: "Production computer equipment provided by Commodore Business Machines, Amiga Division".


I guess they learned something after Star Trek 4.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: stefcep2 on April 02, 2015, 07:23:41 AM
I would have an A4000 rendering  a Lightwave animation from Bladerunner, and playing it back eg Tyrell building, flying craft with lens flares  Bladerunner has gone on to be one of the iconic science fiction films of all time and is recognisable even for non-computer geeks.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: AAACHIPSET on April 02, 2015, 02:22:21 PM
games  like  blood money  ...mad addiction  shoot em up ...or  dragons  lair  ..no so addictive  but looks  good...and  aminet   have a machine  with a aminet  disc  and all the tools to  really  go through the cd ...so many amazing programs  ...just being able  to customize  a workbench  is  fun  ..you learn a lot about  your  amiga  with a aminet disc...the utez  directory always  had me mucking  my workbench up having to work out how  to fix it..lha  was a challenge  at first  ..now i use a drop it box..
also maybe a couple machines  with a emulator  running like  pctask  .. just  show  everyone  the amiga was and amazing machine...and is still fun..
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: LoadWB on April 03, 2015, 04:14:28 AM
Wish all these events weren't clear on the other side of the US :(  Some time ago I someone talked about doing an event in Atlanta, but I don't think anything ever game of it.
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: RobertB on April 03, 2015, 06:08:13 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;787324
Wish all these events weren't clear on the other side of the US

With Commodores and Amigas on exhibit, the Vintage Computer Festival East happens almost every year.

http://www.vintage.org/2015/east/

FCUG celebrating 33 years,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
July 18-19 Commodore Vegas Expo v11 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: Raffaele on April 03, 2015, 05:03:56 PM
> @thread (Cut and Paste from AmigaWorld clone thread)
>
> DeLuxe Paint
>
> TVPaint
>
> Disney Animator Studio
>
> Lightwave 3D
>
> Imagine
>
> Vista Pro
>
> Distant Suns
>
> Bars & Pipes
> (And let people aware Microsoft bought it and used the pipes idea to create its ActiveX sound engine drivers for Windows)
>
> Octamed
>
> Scala Multimedia MM400
>
> Superbase
>
> AWeb + Voyager + IBrowse
> (teaching the history from Amiga point of vuew of web and letting people know IBrowse was the first browser featuring tabs worldwide)
>
> Maple V Mathematic Cad
>
> Fish Disks Floppy editions and CD editions + Aminet repository
> (making visitors and user seeing videos of the event aware that how these projects helped keeping growing a community, tie it around free software, and keeping it alive in Internet age
>
> Last but not the least a well configured...
>
> Directory Opus
> (showing how it is easy create an alternative desktop, how to move big amount of files, deal with it, and even ftp download/upload)
>
> [EDIT]
>
> Oh, and obviously Hollywood!
>
Title: Re: 30 years of Amiga Software or What to show at the Amiga30th events
Post by: LoadWB on April 03, 2015, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: RobertB;787326
With Commodores and Amigas on exhibit, the Vintage Computer Festival East happens almost every year.

http://www.vintage.org/2015/east/

FCUG celebrating 33 years,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
July 18-19 Commodore Vegas Expo v11 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex


How does that stack up to AmiWest?  I'm not interested in exhibits, I want to see my peeps.