Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: apsturk on March 08, 2015, 08:02:59 AM
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I have a question. I just bought a AmigaX1000 and love it. I have been having great fun learning and playing with AmigaOS. It's quite different and I like it very much. With all the good news coming from A-Eon, like OctaMED, ImageFX, Aladdin4D, Personal Paint and the like. I find it more that a bit troubling that I cant send and only sometimes receive emails (Simplemail). Is there a reason that there is not even one email client for amigaOS? Please don't tell me about YAM or Simple mail. YAM is pop only and I have not had a pop account in over 13 years. Simple mail? in beta for how many years??. I am sorry and disappointed to say it's pure garbage in it's current state. Even it's form, if it worked ok is not great for a program intended to be used for emailing more than once a day. I can't find one program to just send and receive email? Wow. I am hopeful that when the new developer kit for 4.1FE comes out and A-Eons GDB debugger some good things will happen. In the mean time it seems prudent to have the following first.
Web browser: (Odyssey 1.23r3 is ok but needs lots of work and some updates)
Email clients: None
A good native NGAmiga word processor: not a rehash from 68k. libereoffice will be cool for sure but we have what? half baked garbage as of now.
contact database: is there one
calendar: is there one?
After the basic stuff is covered then I would be more interested in things like Aladdin4d. Please dont miss read this. I have bought every program in amistore but a game or two. I have also donated over $300 usd in total for different projects and will spend over $1000 more during 2015. I will also spend money on just about everything on amistore that comes out. I am a big supporter of A-Eon and have over $5000 in my X1000 project and will also buy a X5000 when it comes out.
Lets get a modern full blown top shelf email client and go from there.
PS this is a problem for Morph and AROS as well. Does anyone want to make money out there? my checkbook is ready to pay you!!
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Yam should work.
Limpidclock have a very good calendar
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YAM is a better email client.
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I have a question. I just bought a AmigaX1000 and love it. I have been having great fun learning and playing with AmigaOS. It's quite different and I like it very much. With all the good news coming from A-Eon, like OctaMED, ImageFX, Aladdin4D, Personal Paint and the like. I find it more that a bit troubling that I cant send and only sometimes receive emails (Simplemail). Is there a reason that there is not even one email client for amigaOS? Please don't tell me about YAM or Simple mail. YAM is pop only and I have not had a pop account in over 13 years. Simple mail? in beta for how many years??. I am sorry and disappointed to say it's pure garbage in it's current state. Even it's form, if it worked ok is not great for a program intended to be used for emailing more than once a day. I can't find one program to just send and receive email? Wow. I am hopeful that when the new developer kit for 4.1FE comes out and A-Eons GDB debugger some good things will happen. In the mean time it seems prudent to have the following first.
Web browser: (Odyssey 1.23r3 is ok but needs lots of work and some updates)
Email clients: None
A good native NGAmiga word processor: not a rehash from 68k. libereoffice will be cool for sure but we have what? half baked garbage as of now.
contact database: is there one
calendar: is there one?
After the basic stuff is covered then I would be more interested in things like Aladdin4d. Please dont miss read this. I have bought every program in amistore but a game or two. I have also donated over $300 usd in total for different projects and will spend over $1000 more during 2015. I will also spend money on just about everything on amistore that comes out. I am a big supporter of A-Eon and have over $5000 in my X1000 project and will also buy a X5000 when it comes out.
Lets get a modern full blown top shelf email client and go from there.
PS this is a problem for Morph and AROS as well. Does anyone want to make money out there? my checkbook is ready to pay you!!
well, i mostly used yam on my amigas, and it was okay few years ago, admited, they were genuine amigas, not os4 systems, but im pretty sure there isnt anything better in sight for os4 as well.
now, if you didnt have any experience with amiga offshots like os4 before and you have expected it to be a fully supported system, then you probably should have informed yourself in advance. this situation is like it is and is not easy to change whether someone is ready to drop in few thousand dollars or not. as you correctly said, this is similar with aros, which though is free to use on generic hardware, and probably to lesser extent with morphos.
imho if you still want to spend your money i would be rather cautious to what i donate and would choose cross-platform initiatives, but this is your choice of course. just dont expect, that unlimited progress will break loose any soon.
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I have a question. I just bought a AmigaX1000 and love it. I have been having great fun learning and playing with AmigaOS. It's quite different and I like it very much. With all the good news coming from A-Eon, like OctaMED, ImageFX, Aladdin4D, Personal Paint and the like. I find it more that a bit troubling that I cant send and only sometimes receive emails (Simplemail). Is there a reason that there is not even one email client for amigaOS? Please don't tell me about YAM or Simple mail. YAM is pop only and I have not had a pop account in over 13 years. Simple mail? in beta for how many years??. I am sorry and disappointed to say it's pure garbage in it's current state. Even it's form, if it worked ok is not great for a program intended to be used for emailing more than once a day. I can't find one program to just send and receive email? Wow. I am hopeful that when the new developer kit for 4.1FE comes out and A-Eons GDB debugger some good things will happen. In the mean time it seems prudent to have the following first.
Web browser: (Odyssey 1.23r3 is ok but needs lots of work and some updates)
Email clients: None
A good native NGAmiga word processor: not a rehash from 68k. libereoffice will be cool for sure but we have what? half baked garbage as of now.
contact database: is there one
calendar: is there one?
After the basic stuff is covered then I would be more interested in things like Aladdin4d. Please dont miss read this. I have bought every program in amistore but a game or two. I have also donated over $300 usd in total for different projects and will spend over $1000 more during 2015. I will also spend money on just about everything on amistore that comes out. I am a big supporter of A-Eon and have over $5000 in my X1000 project and will also buy a X5000 when it comes out.
Lets get a modern full blown top shelf email client and go from there.
PS this is a problem for Morph and AROS as well. Does anyone want to make money out there? my checkbook is ready to pay you!!
I have just used Simplemail (68k) from within Aros Vision and it perfectly works (both sending and receiving). And it is not even a special version there, just the normal 68k version. So do not hit at Simplemail because Simplemail is not responsible. Perhaps the native version I do not know or your X1000 system has a problem. 68k Simplemail is working.
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I find it more that a bit troubling that I cant send and only sometimes receive emails (Simplemail). Is there a reason that there is not even one email client for amigaOS?
Hmmn I run Simplemail on MorphOS and my Amiga 4000 all the time and don't have these problems. Likely it's just a settings issue?
Simplemail supports IMAP and HTML emails, I find it better than YAM.
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Hmmn I run Simplemail on MorphOS and my Amiga 4000 all the time and don't have these problems. Likely it's just a settings issue?
Simplemail supports IMAP and HTML emails, I find it better than YAM.
same here. i use simplemail daily. it's not buggy at all.
@apsturk
what exactly is your issue with simplemail, other than the version number?
-- eliyahu
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Using any amigoid system for anything networking is seriously challanging as all the software is pretty much locked to standards of early 1990ies, and this goes all the way from the drivers (SANA), the IP stacks, and up to client software. The main concern for software developers on amigoid systems the last 20 years are frames per second in games like Doom and Quake, true color icons and window decorations.
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About Office. Libre Office is on the way, god knows how many years more. :)
Just wondering, we have a QT, but no KDE libraries, wich are needed for KDE Office suite Calligra. I'm prety sure that Calligra suite would be much easier and faster port than Libre Office.
https://www.calligra.org/
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@apsturk,
YAM is "Top Shelf" and has all the bells and whistles you need! If they made one for my Winblows box at work I would use it there too......
Chris
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@apsturk,
YAM is "Top Shelf" and has all the bells and whistles you need! If they made one for my Winblows box at work I would use it there too......
YAM is excellent, but does not have everything he needs - he needs IMAP support.
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I found encryption in YAM very cumbersome, no S/MIME support, way outdated and limited SSL/TLS support (does it even do StartTLS?) and PGP/GnuPG on Amiga is very "alien" in any case. Not to mention the can of worms that is charsets and UTF8. Oops, now I did.
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And wow - YAM still doesn't do IMAP?! I cannot even remember that, haha. No IMAP, no Sieve, no S/MIME, rudimentary PGP support... exactly what bells and whistles are left? :)
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You can say that it is the general problem with Amigoid systems, especially OS4 and MorphOS - all focus is on "bells and whistles", all about "bling". They are totally lacking when it comes to fundamental technologies. Throwing more bitmaps and more FPS on it doesn't make the OSes more appealing to developers, modern core technologies are totally absent, and this has to be dealt with sooner rather than later. But, whatever, if gaining 2% higher transfer speeds on FTP over a sloppy half duplex 10Mbit connection is what ticks people off, by all means!
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I used to love YAM but it doesnt do IMAP so I had to scrap it. I tried SimpleMail recently but found it unsatisfactory.
I think I should port Pine.
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No Comment
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@kolla
I agree with all you said and it seems you are one of just a few that read my post. Thanks
guys YAM = no IMAP so it does not matter how good you say it is. I dont have a pop account!! so it is NOT an option.
@eliyahu
well illegal MUI stuff pops up all the time. Sometimes the inbox in nowhere to be found for a day or two. Locks up the OS 4 or 5 times a day. Look I could go on and on. It is a kindergarten 8 year still in beta, 101 baby email client and a poor attempt of a program, bug ridden mess. on a scale of 1 to 10 it is a 0 at the very, very VERY! best. I am very understanding that things are not so great with apps for AmigaOS4 and that is ok as long people are working to fix this. Trevor said at amiwest 2014 content, content and more content..
Smiplemail is at best ok if you are totaly unaware of the rest of the computer world and you judge Amiga programs on a much lower scale with low expectations to start with. Kind of like your friends laughing at your X1000 and the simple stuff it just cant do. (something you said at amiwest) I am not trying to be offensive I just want good stuff as there is no reason but money that we have lots of crap and very fee gems
Again if there is team out there willing to do the work I will be first in line to pay$$$$. If we all do that someone WILL get it done.
1 email client that many, many people other than me have big problems with too. Lets stop ourselves with pretending
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You can say that it is the general problem with Amigoid systems, especially OS4 and MorphOS - all focus is on "bells and whistles", all about "bling". They are totally lacking when it comes to fundamental technologies. Throwing more bitmaps and more FPS on it doesn't make the OSes more appealing to developers, modern core technologies are totally absent, and this has to be dealt with sooner rather than later. But, whatever, if gaining 2% higher transfer speeds on FTP over a sloppy half duplex 10Mbit connection is what ticks people off, by all means!
Again, right on bud!!
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@kolla
I agree with all you said and it seems you are one of just a few that read my post. Thanks
guys YAM = no IMAP so it does not matter how good you say it is. I dont have a pop account!! so it is NOT an option.
@eliyahu
well illegal MUI stuff pops up all the time. Sometimes the inbox in nowhere to be found for a day or two. Locks up the OS 4 or 5 times a day. Look I could go on and on. It is a kindergarten 8 year still in beta, 101 baby email client and a poor attempt of a program, bug ridden mess. on a scale of 1 to 10 it is a 0 at the very, very VERY! best. I am very understanding that things are not so great with apps for AmigaOS4 and that is ok as long people are working to fix this. Trevor said at amiwest 2014 content, content and more content..
Smiplemail is at best %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8220;ok%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8221; if you are totaly unaware of the rest of the computer world and you judge Amiga programs on a much lower scale with low expectations to start with. Kind of like your friends laughing at your X1000 and the simple stuff it just cant do. (something you said at amiwest) I am not trying to be offensive I just want good stuff as there is no reason but money that we have lots of crap and very fee gems
Again if there is team out there willing to do the work I will be first in line to pay$$$$. If we all do that someone WILL get it done.
1 email client that many, many people other than me have big problems with too. Lets stop ourselves with pretending
i do not use the PPC OS4 version of Simplemail on X1000 so I cannot say anything about that but the 68k version works perfectly and I have never seen any problems. And I do not know what you expect now from a email client, it is certainly not outlook with appointments and so on but I can send and receive emails and I have contacts. If you want to play in the same league as Windows or MacOS or Linux then you are completely wrong. Then use Windows, Linux or MacOS.
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well illegal MUI stuff pops up all the time. Sometimes the inbox in nowhere to be found for a day or two. Locks up the OS 4 or 5 times a day. Look I could go on and on. It is a kindergarten 8 year still in beta, 101 baby email client and a poor attempt of a program, bug ridden mess. on a scale of 1 to 10 it is a 0 at the very, very VERY! best. I am very understanding that things are not so great with apps for AmigaOS4 and that is ok as long people are working to fix this. Trevor said at amiwest 2014 content, content and more content..
i'm sorry you've had that experience. simplemail works very well for me, and does not 'lock up' my system. i keep it running constantly, actually. perhaps if you had specific issues, you could bring them up with sebastian? i'm sure he'd appreciate bug reports to make it better.
-- eliyahu
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@Eliyahu
bug reports to make it better.
-- eliyahu
Did you see the update in December 2014. That is what took 1 year?. I sent 2 emails. 1 in 2013 and 1 in 2014 and I never got a reply from 2013 or 2014. If you are happy with it great. I am not and I dont like or expect a free program and the developer to act live a pro software company, They have lives and do it in there spare time.
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I used to love YAM but it doesnt do IMAP so I had to scrap it. I tried SimpleMail recently but found it unsatisfactory.
I think I should port Pine.
Pine was ported decades ago. Pine is dead, you should port Alpine. Oh wait, Alpine too is kinda dead, try re-Alpine. Pay attention, lol.
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@ apsturk
It's been a couple of years since I used SimpleMail but I found it quite stable and usable at the time. If you're getting MUI related errors, I wonder if some of your custom classes (MCC) are outdated/buggy? Grab the latest versions of BetterString, NList, TextEditor, PopPlaceholder, and TheBar from Aminet (all were updated in 2014). Run AmiUpdate as well to make sure you've got the latest version of MUI.
What many of us here are trying to say is that the problematic behavior you're experiencing with SimpleMail is unusual. If we can solve that for you, I think you'll find it to be a satisfactory program.
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@ apsturk
It's been a couple of years since I used SimpleMail but I found it quite stable and usable at the time. If you're getting MUI related errors, I wonder if some of your custom classes (MCC) are outdated/buggy? Grab the latest versions of BetterString, NList, TextEditor, PopPlaceholder, and TheBar from Aminet (all were updated in 2014). Run AmiUpdate as well to make sure you've got the latest version of MUI.
What many of us here are trying to say is that the problematic behavior you're experiencing with SimpleMail is unusual. If we can solve that for you, I think you'll find it to be a satisfactory program.
PopPlaceholder was updated in 2014? Everything on my system is new how would I get old MCC. Does SimpleMail instal that. From reading it does not look like it does.
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@ apsturk
i dont have an impression that simplemail is very actively maintained, i guess the author just releases annual bug fixes. you might have better luck with yam if you have a feature request.
what concerns stability, as you probably know the re-implamantation of mui4 features from morphos is rather recent, and mostly due to odyssey port demands, so it may be relatively unstable, at least this is what has been reported from amiga users in comparison to the genuine 3.8 version. i have not tested it myself, but if you experience reproducible bugs it would certainly be worth to report them.
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@apsturk
I don't use SimpleMail myself because I do my email on a PC (via RDesktop on my X1000, in fact) - I need proper HTML email, (which is something no Amigaoid system offers) and have inboxes of several thousand mails. However, last time I did use it it a few years ago it was quite stable, and nowhere near as bad as you're saying. It may have suddenly got much worse, but it seems unlikely.
I would say, though, that going onto a forum and complaining loudly about how utterly rubbish someone's software is, and how it's a "zero out of ten at the very, very best" isn't going to make him do anything about it.
Work with the developer. Tell him what happens. Tell him the bits you like, and the bits you don't like. If it crashes, tell him what you did to make it crash. Tell him how to reproduce the fault. If you just write an email and say "your program is rubbish and I hate it" he'll just immediately delete the email, whether your grievances are justified or not. Be polite, and help him to help you - then everyone benefits, especially you.
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Second languages can be hard to understand; perhaps if we typed more slowly...
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With all due respect, probably would have served you better to do more research into what the system was capable of in regards to current software offerings on it before you plunked down $3000 for it. Worse comes to worse, I suppose you've got a very capable Linux box, albeit likely the most expensive one on the market for what power it packs. I'e got a $200 HP laptop (HP Stream) that I run Linux on and it'll run circles around even the most beefy OS4/Linux PPC machines.
I love my OS4 machine, but if I'd bought it believing that it would be capable of doing everything my various windows boxes can do, I'm afraid I'd have to eventually accept the idea that I should have researched the software offerings a bit better before shelling out the cash on it I love it for what it is, but anyone able to use an OS4 machine as a daily driver PC has far more simple requirements of a modern computer than I and most people do.
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Hmmn I run Simplemail on MorphOS and my Amiga 4000 all the time and don't have these problems. Likely it's just a settings issue?
Simplemail supports IMAP and HTML emails, I find it better than YAM.
+1, I use SimpleMail on my X1000 daily with no issues
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I have a number of Amiga computers (about 14) and a Mac Mini with Morphos 3.7 with Similemail however it has the 1.1 fork and It works ok at the very best. Just to be clear the fact that a program works does NOT mean that it is a good program or even an adequate one.
When I bought a X1000 I did not expect it would do all the things another computer would do (I already own all them). I was 100 percent sure that it would NOT. That is not my point. There have been updates to MUI and I am sure there are other factors as well.. My point is there only 1 email client that does IMAP? All the reading and email I am getting show that half the people say it works and the other half say that have lots of problems with it, just like I do.
My overall point is that it is hard to understand (like my title says) why I can get dozens and dozens of 2d scroll games and email is almost non existent. That to me is hard to understand.
My point also is lets start with the basic stuff people do with computers first... like email etc. I am willing to pay for this and would like to. The product needs to be made first and then sold and supported by people that want a good product for a fair price. With email I think it's safe to say AROS Morphos and AmigaOS all have that need in a big way. That is a good number of people with a need. I would like to see it filled and I would encourage developers to work on things like email and some of the other most basic things that are needed to push things forward. I for one will do my part and support it with my money.
So yes I have done some complaining and I think it is well warranted. I also hope that the complaining will encourage developers to work on products that appeal to most if not every amiga user. Last is my pledge to spend money for such products.
I dont think that is so unreasonable do you. Is this not what we all would like to see happen
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"I also hope that the complaining will encourage developers to work on products"
IMHO, I am pretty sure people respond to things that make them feel better about their lives -- sex, money, compliments, alcohol -- rather than complaints.
Trevor's AmiWest speech was about "content" for the Amiga and his company's support for software may lead to a revamp of an email program; try suggesting that in a positive way :)
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My overall point is that it is hard to understand (like my title says) why I can get dozens and dozens of 2d scroll games and email is almost non existent. That to me is hard to understand.
Most likely because it's a lot easier to port/create 2D scroller games than it is to create a good email client.
It looks like the development of SimpleMail has become rather fragmented. The main repository on sourceforge has seen little activity if any for over a year. Then there's the MOS fork, which I'm pleased to see has been discontinued and will be merged back into the main project. Finally, there's a more active copy here:
https://github.com/sba1/simplemail/
Hopefully they'll clean this up, and make it clear which repository should be used.
Given that the github repo appears to be the most active one now, I suggest that you submit bug reports there. You will have to be specific though; "it doesn't work" isn't good enough.
Hans
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"I also hope that the complaining will encourage developers to work on products"
IMHO, I am pretty sure people respond to things that make them feel better about their lives -- sex, money, compliments, alcohol -- rather than complaints.
Trevor's AmiWest speech was about "content" for the Amiga and his company's support for software may lead to a revamp of an email program; try suggesting that in a positive way :)
I get you point however identifying a problem and pledging money to support solutions (as many times as I have through out this thread) is the position I am in and is all I can do. Your focusing on but one thing and ignoring the other as if I did not address that too I think is missing the point. I went out of my way to make sure I shared that I am and will be continuing to spend money in support of Amiga software and hardware. This is a forum for lots of things and expressing disappointment and stating an opinion that contains my willingness to do what I can to change it is what its all about.
I will however keep your post in mind and try to be a little less sour sounding. Thanks
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PS this is a problem for Morph and AROS as well.
It's called MorphOS not Morph.
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It's called MorphOS not Morph.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/36/70/d0/3670d0778a697d3f379b957b3edbbcdb.jpg)
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/36/70/d0/3670d0778a697d3f379b957b3edbbcdb.jpg)
lol thats great. Just what I was thinking.
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In hindsight I just realized that user is located in Germany. Probably not the most politically correct meme I could've posted. Still, it was a wholly unnecessary correction. Hope they have a good sense of humor! ;)
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In hindsight I just realized that user is located in Germany. Probably not the most politically correct meme I could've posted. Still, it was a wholly unnecessary correction. Hope they have a good sense of humor! ;)
To hell with political correctness...there's nothing wrong with blonde hair & blue eyes.
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What will people do the day they no longer can have their amigoid systems online, because the IP stack is too old to support the current Internet? There are no people in the community with skills and know-how to update any of the IP stacks.
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To hell with political correctness...there's nothing wrong with blonde hair & blue eyes.
hell, no, which i both have. but there is a lot of wrong which have been done in the name of it..
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PopPlaceholder was updated in 2014? Everything on my system is new how would I get old MCC. Does SimpleMail instal that. From reading it does not look like it does.
Sorry, my mistake, PopPlaceholder is older. But even though you may have a brand new shiny install of OS4, the latest versions of things might not be a part of OS4. The Contributions drawer, for instance, includes some very old software. Whoever compiled the OS4 disc image may have missed the latest versions of the MCCs. Check the ones on your system (MUI:Libs/mui) against the versions of Aminet. Update if necessary.
MUI itself was updated less than a month ago. Do you have that version installed?
Try the 68K version of SimpleMail as well. It will run under OS4. Maybe it will work better for you.
IMAP has been on the to-do list for YAM for several years. I know it's not an option for you now, but it could be eventually.
I know you're frustrated that something as "basic" as email is proving difficult. In most markets, what you say would be perfectly logical: there's a market need for an email client, someone creates a product, people buy that product, everyone is happy. But this is not a normal market. No one can make a full-time living writing Amiga software. Things must be done in people's spare time, so things move very slowly. We're trying to help you find a solution, but if the only info you can give us is "It's broken, I'll pay money for a working program" there's not much we can do.
Please explain the problem(s) you are having with SimpleMail in great detail. Tell us the exact wording of any error messages you receive. Screenshots would be a big help.
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What will people do the day they no longer can have their amigoid systems online, because the IP stack is too old to support the current Internet? There are no people in the community with skills and know-how to update any of the IP stacks.
I was listening to the news just the other day and they were talking about an update to the HTTP standard being released. Haven't had time to google exactly what they meant, but it made me worry about this exact same thing! :confused:
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The A1X1k is a hobbyist system for the AmigaOS 4.x hobby OS. If you find the hobby apps currently available for the hobby system are leaving you wanting, then hobby write the app you want, or wait until some hobby Amigan decides to hobby write one.
Alternatively ,you can post your grievances on a forum like this and get a whole bunch of people ignore what you wrote and recommend the thing you can't use, or tell you how they're not having the hobby problem you are having.
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The A1X1k is a hobbyist system for the AmigaOS 4.x hobby OS. If you find the hobby apps currently available for the hobby system are leaving you wanting, then hobby write the app you want, or wait until some hobby Amigan decides to hobby write one.
Alternatively ,you can post your grievances on a forum like this and get a whole bunch of people ignore what you wrote and recommend the thing you can't use, or tell you how they're not having the hobby problem you are having.
Good idea... why do YOU not write a new professional email-client for a couple of dollars (or zero) for him? You will make him happy.
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I have a number of Amiga computers (about 14) and a Mac Mini with Morphos 3.7 with Similemail however it has the 1.1 fork and It works ok at the very best. Just to be clear the fact that a program works does NOT mean that it is a good program or even an adequate one.
When I bought a X1000 I did not expect it would do all the things another computer would do (I already own all them). I was 100 percent sure that it would NOT. That is not my point. There have been updates to MUI and I am sure there are other factors as well.. My point is there only 1 email client that does IMAP? All the reading and email I am getting show that half the people say it works and the other half say that have lots of problems with it, just like I do.
My overall point is that it is hard to understand (like my title says) why I can get dozens and dozens of 2d scroll games and email is almost non existent. That to me is hard to understand.
My point also is lets start with the basic stuff people do with computers first... like email etc. I am willing to pay for this and would like to. The product needs to be made first and then sold and supported by people that want a good product for a fair price. With email I think it's safe to say AROS Morphos and AmigaOS all have that need in a big way. That is a good number of people with a need. I would like to see it filled and I would encourage developers to work on things like email and some of the other most basic things that are needed to push things forward. I for one will do my part and support it with my money.
So yes I have done some complaining and I think it is well warranted. I also hope that the complaining will encourage developers to work on products that appeal to most if not every amiga user. Last is my pledge to spend money for such products.
I dont think that is so unreasonable do you. Is this not what we all would like to see happen
Even if I assume that you (and some others) would be willing to spend for a modern email-client (whatever this is because I myself use something basic for that) and you would find someone willing and able to do it (and have the needed time) how much would it be? Perhaps you could setup a bounty with the requirement to update Simplemail or YAM and then wait how much will be donated and if there is any real interest for it. Simplemail works very good for me, why should I be for a new client? This way many others will think too. And regarding your problems from my experience in supporting PCs it more sounds like OS/hardware related than a software problem. Everything else works perfectly? Is internet connection running stable?
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Shame on the OP for believing a $3k computer sold today would/should perform the basics in 2015! :lol:
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Hmm...
Looks like my "ignore list" is about to have a growth spurt.
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Hmm...
Looks like my "ignore list" is about to have a growrh spurt.
Really? This thread seems pretty tame compared to the usual nonsensical arguments we get ourselves into :)
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I have also donated over $300 usd in total for different projects and will spend over $1000 more during 2015. I will also spend money on just about everything on amistore that comes out. I am a big supporter of A-Eon and have over $5000 in my X1000 project and will also buy a X5000 when it comes out.
Lets get a modern full blown top shelf email client and go from there.
PS this is a problem for Morph and AROS as well. Does anyone want to make money out there? my checkbook is ready to pay you!!
You'd be better off throwing your money at MorphOS or AROS. AmigaOS is a lost cause. But if you want to throw your money away supporting a bankrupt OS that runs on outdated and expensive hardware, go for it. Just don't expect a lot of software support for a system few people can afford and that no one outside the Amiga community would really want.
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Ooh, once more unto the breach
of my ignore list.
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Ooh, once more unto the breach
of my ignore list.
Keep your blinders on if you want. If the $3000 apsturk already spent on the X1000 went towards software development rather than an overpriced computer with 10+ year old technology, he might have already had the e-mail program he wanted. And we need more users, not more under-performing overpriced hardware. If you actually think a lot of developers are looking to write software for a system few people are using, than you're delusional.
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Keep your blinders on if you want. If the $3000 apsturk already spent on the X1000 went towards software development rather than an overpriced computer with 10+ year old technology, he might have already had the e-mail program he wanted. And we need more users, not more under-performing overpriced hardware. If you actually think a lot of developers are looking to write software for a system few people are using, than you're delusional.
Come on pal. I am happy with my X1000 and I know what I was getting into and have no regrets. This all starts with people like me and others spending money and maybe just maybe if there is enough of us things will grow. After 2 years Acube is selling another batch of the sam460 and there was a big demand. Others like me are still buying the X1000 and more will buy the X5000 and X3500. That = more users and this is good thing. With the new developer kit and debugging software and LibreOffice and all the other software and hardware stuff A-Eon is working on I think things are looking better that they have in a long time. That is why I jumped in with both feet!!
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Come on pal. I am happy with my X1000 and I know what I was getting into and have no regrets. This all starts with people like me and others spending money and maybe just maybe if there is enough of us things will grow. After 2 years Acube is selling another batch of the sam460 and there was a big demand. Others like me are still buying the X1000 and more will buy the X5000 and X3500. That = more users and this is good thing. With the new developer kit and debugging software and LibreOffice and all the other software and hardware stuff A-Eon is working on I think things are looking better that they have in a long time. That is why I jumped in with both feet!!
At best, all you'll do is delay the inevitable. Buying all the outdated and expensive stuff A-Eon and ACube dish out isn't going to save them. They're catering to a group of people who will already buy anything they stick the name Amiga to. That doesn't expand the userbase, it just gives the existing base something to collect. What about the person who has never heard of Amiga? Do you really think they're impressed by an expensive computer with 10+ year old technology and nothing going for it except a name? No, they look at us like we're crazy for supporting a system running a processor with a dead end road map, a high-end price tag, and an operating system that isn't worth the price you pay to run it.
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Come on pal. I am happy with my X1000 and I know what I was getting into and have no regrets. This all starts with people like me and others spending money and maybe just maybe if there is enough of us things will grow. After 2 years Acube is selling another batch of the sam460 and there was a big demand. Others like me are still buying the X1000 and more will buy the X5000 and X3500. That = more users and this is good thing. With the new developer kit and debugging software and LibreOffice and all the other software and hardware stuff A-Eon is working on I think things are looking better that they have in a long time. That is why I jumped in with both feet!!
Was that before or after the Hyperion bankrupsy announcement? You also forgot to mention Timberwolf, based on Firefox v4, which should be out soon after Firefox v40. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I wouldn't go much by announcements or dates in the perpetual Amiga time warp world of "just two more weeks" :D.
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@ Lionheart
Thing is, though, the email client situation is exactly the same on MorphOS and AROS...
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@ Lionheart
Thing is, though, the email client situation is exactly the same on MorphOS and AROS...
Thing is, I already know that. However, if the community would gather under fewer umbrellas, it could change that.
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Thing is, I already know that. However, if the community would gather under fewer umbrellas, it could change that.
Providing it's not the OS4 umbrella as you clearly don't like that one. Well, nothing like a nice bit of exclusivity to bring us all together right.
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@ Lionheart
Thing is, though, the email client situation is exactly the same on MorphOS and AROS...
since you bring aros and morphos into the subject, yes you are right yam is certainly missing imap support on all these platforms. if this is the purpose of this thread and everything else is fine, then as i said it can perhaps be solved contacting the developers rather than complaining about it on forums. but if its also about open (libre) office and such, then note, that the public is neither on aros nor on morphos being constantly served with this kind of hollow announcements.
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Good idea... why do YOU not write a new professional email-client for a couple of dollars (or zero) for him? You will make him happy.
Because I'm not an Amiga hobbyist, duh.
And your answer is a bounty?! Really?! If that ain't a wait for a train that don't come.
The reason it would be nigh on impossible to raise $10,000 for something like a solid up-to-date email client would be because y'all are happy with your YAMs and your SimpleMails. Y'all have become too content with the lack of quantity and quality of software available on the hobby platform.
apsturk points this out and all y'all can do is say, "try YAM" or "SimpleMail works fine for me", i.e. "Try something older and less functional", or "The problem must be with you". That my friends is what a content group sounds like.
You might have also tried:
"Just use webmail"
"No one uses a desktop for email anymore, get a smartphone"
"Reinstall everything and try again"
"Maybe the problem is with your IMAP provider"
And as far as sales of the yet to be released X5000 and X3500, I'm willing to bet the porting of a Linux email client that 75% of individuals that buy those are X1000 owners. Not that they'll actually release sales and market figures.
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Providing it's not the OS4 umbrella as you clearly don't like that one. Well, nothing like a nice bit of exclusivity to bring us all together right.
OS4 has no future. It's tied to expensive hardware, which it can barely support. It makes no sense to spend $3000 just to run Hyperion's OS4 as it's not that impressive to begin with. Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price.
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Was that before or after the Hyperion bankrupsy announcement? You also forgot to mention Timberwolf, based on Firefox v4, which should be out soon after Firefox v40. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I wouldn't go much by announcements or dates in the perpetual Amiga time warp world of "just two more weeks" :D.
O yes I know what you mean for sure. One of the reasons I jumped in was that A-Eon has delivered on everything that said they would do. Life is a big chance and I am betting on them and some others. If I am wrong so be it.
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@Lionheast
That doesn't expand the userbase, it just gives the existing base something to collect
By definition it sure does.
&
Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price
You are chatting with that person now, me!
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Dear apsturk,
Please chat with the YAM coder and send him a $200.00 bribe to add IMAP and the other feature you need.
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O yes I know what you mean for sure. One of the reasons I jumped in was that A-Eon has delivered on everything that said they would do. Life is a big chance and I am betting on them and some others. If I am wrong so be it.
I agree that A-Eon has been better at delivering on promises than Hyperion and most other Amiga businesses. They seem to have more (financial) resources than most which helps get things done. You are at least one new Amiga user which is a positive. We need more than the few hundred new Amiga users which expensive hardware will bring, a less divided Amiga community and stable professional parent companies to attract outside users and development. All of these are problems. You must be a real optimist to have looked at the current Amiga situation from the outside and think it looks good :).
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I am also a new Amiga OS user that had zero interest in amiga back in 2010 and thanks to A-Eon, I was one of the 1st in USA for buy a X1000 FC system and still to this day own and use it. Rolling with all the good and bad ever since enjoying the Amiga experience. There are more out there that some may believe.
TJ
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A-Eon delivered on their promises? Talk about selective memory.
The thing was supposed to come out in July of 2010 to coincide with the 25th anniversary of the Amiga 1000 release. Instead it arrives 18 months late and only partially functional with a moniker of First Contact.
Meanwhile, no Xorro add-ons and still not fully functional. Just sayin' is all.
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OS4 has no future. It's tied to expensive hardware, which it can barely support. It makes no sense to spend $3000 just to run Hyperion's OS4 as it's not that impressive to begin with. Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price.
You are of course entitled to your opinion. I don't give a fug what that opinion is of course as I'm op[en to all Amiga flavors. My point was you just can't say that we should all work together and then choose who to include like that. That's just a hypocrisy.
Oh, and as for making no sense to spend $3000 on a computer etc... Does it make sense to buy an IDE controller for $70 or a 50MHz CPU for hundreds? Certainly not to anyone outside the Amiga community you speak of. If you don't like OS4 or the X1000 just don't buy them. Just as you have a choice so does everyone else. Excluding sub-groups within the Amiga community does not help anyone, not MOS users, not AROS users, not OS4 users.
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O yes I know what you mean for sure. One of the reasons I jumped in was that A-Eon has delivered on everything that said they would do.
aeon has been delivering on hardware atleast in one case so far, namely they delivered x1k. though they delivered it with a lot at least questionable or misleading tags, like the price that went up through the roof while it has been advertised, xorro ("you will tell use what to do with it"), multicore support, 3d and other goodies that should have been included in os4.2, now likely never to come, they even put some printing on board resembling the genuine machines and tried to make it look a bit like it could be called "amiga x1000" which the customers willingly did, of course. so if i was aeon customer today i would certainly feel not to be delivered what was promised, whether it is their fault or not.
other than that i cant see what much has been delivered. libre office, warp3d, the simple chip audio decoder they like to advertise as a "sound card", all that in a queue since ever with quartal announcements about everything almost ready and other announcements to be made in half a year. so far they bought up some genuine software, to fill up the app?-store a bit, but hard to guess what to do with it, except some changes to make it run under os4 and cosmetics hardly making it better.
Life is a big chance and I am betting on them and some others. If I am wrong so be it.
well. i wish you luck but considering my years long observation i doubt you bet on a right thing. but lets see in a year, in the meantime what do you intend to achieve with this thread if you are content? its hard to expect, there is a bunch of unemployed but very gifted developers reding this fora, who just did not realized yet, what they could do for you, especially if you paid them some xk$ for, lets say an imap mail client.
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Oh, and as for making no sense to spend $3000 on a computer etc... Does it make sense to buy an IDE controller for $70 or a 50MHz CPU for hundreds?
Exactly. Does it make sense to not buy something that you're going to enjoy if you can afford it?
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Because I'm not an Amiga hobbyist, duh.
And your answer is a bounty?! Really?! If that ain't a wait for a train that don't come.
The reason it would be nigh on impossible to raise $10,000 for something like a solid up-to-date email client would be because y'all are happy with your YAMs and your SimpleMails. Y'all have become too content with the lack of quantity and quality of software available on the hobby platform.
apsturk points this out and all y'all can do is say, "try YAM" or "SimpleMail works fine for me", i.e. "Try something older and less functional", or "The problem must be with you". That my friends is what a content group sounds like.
You might have also tried:
"Just use webmail"
"No one uses a desktop for email anymore, get a smartphone"
"Reinstall everything and try again"
"Maybe the problem is with your IMAP provider"
And as far as sales of the yet to be released X5000 and X3500, I'm willing to bet the porting of a Linux email client that 75% of individuals that buy those are X1000 owners. Not that they'll actually release sales and market figures.
it sounds not like a "content" group but a "realistic" group. For many years you can no longer earn money with developing amiga software (last remainders of the former commercial market vanished in about 2001) so we have what we have and all development is done by programmers in their spare time, in most cases for no money. The request sounded like "I have spend a professional amount of money on the hardware so I now expect professional software". *Whisper* a small secret, the developers have got nothing of the money, most got Varisys and then Aeon and Amigakit. If he wants to get new features then best would be to contact the active developers and ask for features and make a donation or make a bounty and a donation or do it himself. Sitting and saying "I would buy it if it would be not such crap" (it sounded like that) is hardly motivating anyone. He should know better.
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@Lionheast
That doesn't expand the userbase, it just gives the existing base something to collect
By definition it sure does.
&
Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price
You are chatting with that person now, me!
Nobody is forced to buy the expensive hardware. It is (and was) no secret what you get and there were enough threads with "troll" discussions where people exactly said that. That AmigaOS has basically the same software as the other camps is no real secret either so I am a little wondering what you are now discussing about. If you want a existing version improved with certain feature(s) then get in contact with active devs then show your interest and make perhaps a donation. To put the software in mud is not really helping and saying "I would buy something if it is not such crap" is not helping either. Brandnew commercial quality applications for 1000-2000 users will not happen and paid work is unrealistic (except everyone would pay hundreds of dollars for it). So live with what is there and show support there or leave it.
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Hmm, sounds like Yam and SimpleMail are not as full featured as you would like
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You are of course entitled to your opinion. I don't give a fug what that opinion is of course as I'm op[en to all Amiga flavors. My point was you just can't say that we should all work together and then choose who to include like that. That's just a hypocrisy.
Speaking of hypocrisy, how open were you to CUSA?
CUSA to me is just some shoddy company that rapes the Amiga name for profit and does nothing to advance real Amiga's at all.
Source: http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=669446
Funny you could say the same thing about A-Eon, ACube, and Hyperion, whose only real accomplishment has been giving the community a proprietary platform running a PowerPC processor with a dead end road map. And how many developers do you think are willing to invest $3,000 to develop software for a system few people own let alone can afford?
Oh, and as for making no sense to spend $3000 on a computer etc... Does it make sense to buy an IDE controller for $70 or a 50MHz CPU for hundreds? Certainly not to anyone outside the Amiga community you speak of. If you don't like OS4 or the X1000 just don't buy them. Just as you have a choice so does everyone else. Excluding sub-groups within the Amiga community does not help anyone, not MOS users, not AROS users, not OS4 users.
Spending $70 on a hobby is one thing. Spending $3000 on a computer, which is suppose to be more than a collector's item, is another. If A-Eon and Acube's sole reason for existing is to provide expensive computers with outdated technology to satisfy the fanatics in the community, they'll eventually cease to exist.
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Speaking of hypocrisy, how open were you to CUSA?
That's no hypocrisy as CUSA never made any real Amiga products. Yeah they said they would support AROS but did they? I don't seem to recall them actually doing it. Nor do I recall them making any Amiga compatible ... well, anything. In fact all they did was use the Amiga name.
Oh, just for the record, from my own point of view I include all Amiga OS's from Commodore proper, Hyperion, the MorphOS team and the AROS guys, any Amiga emulators and any Amiga specific hardware from Catweasel to the X1000 as "Amiga products". I'm not anti anyone who makes anything Amiga related but ripping the name to sell Atom based Linux boxes was just wrong.
If A-Eon and Acube's sole reason for existing is to provide expensive computers with outdated technology to satisfy the fanatics in the community, they'll eventually cease to exist.
Well that's not really your problem now is it? If you are not interested in the products they make why does this even concern you? Now before you dig a big hole for yourself, some of those "fanatics in the community" are the very people who are doing real work developing Amiga software. All Amiga flavors benefit from porting between themselves. Without OS4 you will have less, not more.
If, as I suspect, you think we would achieve more by all getting behind one flavor in particular and maybe get some kind of mass appeal again then you are of course quite deluded. I've no doubt that we would all love to see any Amiga OS on top but it's not going to happen. Perhaps if someone had several hundred million and decided to build an FPGA memristor (mrFPGA) based home computer that used an Amigalike OS then perhaps that could happen but frankly I don't see any other tech out there that is radical enough to cut into the market place and re-establish the Amiga as a popular home platform oozing power and elegance other than that, so don't get your hopes up.
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Was that before or after the Hyperion bankrupsy announcement? You also forgot to mention Timberwolf, based on Firefox v4, which should be .
Bankruptcy?
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Bankruptcy?
Hyperion Entertainment Cvba in Sint-Agatha-Berchem (Brussel) was declared bankrupt by the court in Brussel on 27-01-2015. The appointed curator is Bert Dehandschutter. The company number is 466380552.
If A-EON hasn't bought OS4 yet I'm sure they will so I doubt if this is any concern, more likely just a way of bill dodging.
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That's no hypocrisy as CUSA never made any real Amiga products.
Neither did A-Eon.
CUSA's Amiga Mini was a quad-core 3.5 GHz Intel Core i7-2700K with 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, running a Linux operating system capable of emulating Amiga for $2,495 (lowered to $1,995 shortly after).
But I guess it's not a real Amiga to you unless it has an out of production 1.8Ghz dual core PA6T-1682M PowerPC processor, 4GB(Max) of DDR2 ram, with Hyperion's OS4, a 32-bit OS running on a 64-bit system that can't even use the second core and that is about as real an Amiga as AROS, MorphOS, or anything else capable of emulating Amiga, for $3,000.
Well that's not really your problem now is it? If you are not interested in the products they make why does this even concern you? Now before you dig a big hole for yourself, some of those "fanatics in the community" are the very people who are doing real work developing Amiga software. All Amiga flavors benefit from porting between themselves. Without OS4 you will have less, not more.
It's a problem for the community in general. Amiga users would be better off supporting AROS than to set themselves up for failure and disappointment supporting another failed company using the Amiga trademark. And when I say 'fanatics' I'm referring to brand worshipers who are the equivalent of the cult members that support Apple.
If, as I suspect, you think we would achieve more by all getting behind one flavor in particular and maybe get some kind of mass appeal again then you are of course quite deluded. I've no doubt that we would all love to see any Amiga OS on top but it's not going to happen. Perhaps if someone had several hundred million and decided to build an FPGA memristor (mrFPGA) based home computer that used an Amigalike OS then perhaps that could happen but frankly I don't see any other tech out there that is radical enough to cut into the market place and re-establish the Amiga as a popular home platform oozing power and elegance other than that, so don't get your hopes up.
Do you think there would be a Haiku if BeOS was still around? I don't expect any 'Amiga' OS to be on top. I expect us to be better than we currently are. If you don't have a radical technology you need an innovative solution. You want Amiga back in the home? With the right operating system and a single-board computer running an ARM processor (think Raspberry Pi only better), you could create a multimedia set-top-box that could function as both a game console and a video streaming device and that could even be built by the user or sold for less than $100.
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A-Eon delivered on their promises? Talk about selective memory.
The thing was supposed to come out in July of 2010 to coincide with the 25th anniversary of the Amiga 1000 release. Instead it arrives 18 months late and only partially functional with a moniker of First Contact.
Meanwhile, no Xorro add-ons and still not fully functional. Just sayin' is all.
A-Eon didn't give up and they came through at least. It's not easy to build high quality hardware (or produce good software), especially before becoming experienced. It's important to choose good business partners and it looks like Hyperion let them down. I wonder if Hyperion had financial problems slowing them up even back then.
Hyperion Entertainment Cvba in Sint-Agatha-Berchem (Brussel) was declared bankrupt by the court in Brussel on 27-01-2015. The appointed curator is Bert Dehandschutter. The company number is 466380552.
If A-EON hasn't bought OS4 yet I'm sure they will so I doubt if this is any concern, more likely just a way of bill dodging.
I think the bankruptcy question was due to my spelling and not not knowing about THE bankruptcy. It's odd that the Linux Mint spell checker doesn't always work.
I don't think Hyperion will disappear if the Amiga Inc. contract depends on their existence. Of course, A-Eon could now be a majority shareholder in Hyperion making Hyperion a software house for A-Eon.
Do you think there would be a Haiku if BeOS was still around? I don't expect any 'Amiga' OS to be on top. I expect us to be better than we currently are. If you don't have a radical technology you need an innovative solution. You want Amiga back in the home? With the right operating system and a single-board computer running an ARM processor (think Raspberry Pi only better), you could create a multimedia set-top-box that could function as both a game console and a video streaming device and that could even be built by the user or sold for less than $100.
We have experienced 68k programmers and enthusiasts not ARM programmers. The 68k is better. Look at RiscOS which has major ARM incompatibility problems due to 26 bit to 32 bit PC on the ARM, at least 3 modes of operation (original, Thumb 1, Thumb 2, and now ARMv8) and hundreds of different variations and configurations of ARM processors. 68000 programs which are 32 bit clean (minus M$ AmigaBasic and a handful of other programs) still work everywhere because the 68k had 32 bit address registers, a 32 bit PC and 32 bit capable addressing modes from the beginning. We have less baggage, much better code density (RiscOS ROMs are 4MB vs the largest 1MB Roms for a 68k Amiga which holds a lot) and the 68k is strong in single core and memory performance. The RiscOS has splits also with the original Acorn, RISCOS Ltd. and RISC OS OPEN. Only RISC OS OPEN has been able to advance far enough to run on the Rasberry Pi. They are struggling to add preemptive multitasking in a compatible way let alone multi-threading or SMP support. The AmigaOS is in much better shape than the RiscOS but they have tons of new cheap harware which means they probably will add more users than the AmigaOS despite the AmigaOS being significantly superior, even in 68k form. All we need is more modern cheap 68k hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS
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Neither did A-Eon. .
Depends on how you look at it.
CUSA's Amiga Mini was a quad-core 3.5 GHz Intel Core i7-2700K with 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, running a Linux operating system capable of emulating Amiga for $2,495 (lowered to $1,995 shortly after).
Yup, overpriced and I can build the same model for less..... your point exactly?
But I guess it's not a real Amiga to you unless it has an out of production 1.8Ghz dual core PA6T-1682M PowerPC processor, 4GB(Max) of DDR2 ram, with Hyperion's OS4, a 32-bit OS running on a 64-bit system that can't even use the second core and that is about as real an Amiga as AROS, MorphOS, or anything else capable of emulating Amiga, for $3,000.
Oh, I see... so you don't consider AROS or MorphOS as Amiga's either. :/
It's a problem for the community in general. Amiga users would be better off supporting AROS...
Whoah there cowboy, I thought you didn't consider AROS machines to be Amigas..... try engaging your brain before you type.
..than to set themselves up for failure and disappointment supporting another failed company using the Amiga trademark.
Oh you mean like CUSA.
And when I say 'fanatics' I'm referring to brand worshipers who are the equivalent of the cult members that support Apple.
No no no no no... NO! Don't even start that rubbish with me. Just ask around the OS4 community, I doubt that you will find many who are OS4 only. That myth is an invention of those who are deluded enough into thinking that lumping an amigalike OS on top of existing mainstream hardware will somehow get Amigas back into homes without thinking through whether that device will really be an Amiga at all. People like CUSA.
Do you think there would be a Haiku if BeOS was still around?
I don't care, the comparison is moot, this is the Amiga market not the BeOS one.
I don't expect any 'Amiga' OS to be on top. I expect us to be better than we currently are.
How long are you willing to wait for that? LMFAO.
If you don't have a radical technology you need an innovative solution.
I'm a designer, I look forward to hearing your innovative solution.
You want Amiga back in the home?
I got a few already, as for the mass market I couldn't give a flying...
With the right operating system and a single-board computer running an ARM processor (think Raspberry Pi only better), you could create a multimedia set-top-box that could function as both a game console and a video streaming device and that could even be built by the user or sold for less than $100.
.......yeesss....It's called a Steam box. What was your innovative solution again?
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I thought you didn't consider AROS machines to be Amigas.
nothing wrong with calling things by name. aros is not amiga. its aros. it may though be used on an amiga and its worth support.
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nothing wrong with calling things by name. aros is not amiga. its aros. it may though be used on an amiga and its worth support.
Ssshhhh! Stop spoiling my fun. XD
But seriously, I consider AROS, MorphOS and OS4 all as Amiga derivatives and all worthy of support if you are interested in them. I'm not against any of them
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Yup, overpriced and I can build the same model for less..... your point exactly?
It's overpriced, emulates Amiga, and yet is still more powerful and cheaper than the X1000. And unlike the X1000 it isn't running a processor with a dead end road map.
Oh, I see... so you don't consider AROS or MorphOS as Amiga's either. :/
I said OS4 is about as much an Amiga as AROS and MorphOS. They're derivatives of Amiga, just like OS4, that have been around longer but don't get the same respect from some people in the community because they're not carrying the Amiga name and currently being sold with $3,000 computers running off of 10+ year old technology.
Oh you mean like CUSA.
I said Amiga users would be better off not setting themselves up for failure and disappointment supporting another failed company using the Amiga trademark. Yes, that would include CUSA. However, CUSA never had much support from the community and just like A-Eon, ACube, and Hyperion ...Amiga, Inc. and Bill McEwen still profited off of them through licensing fees.
No no no no no... NO! Don't even start that rubbish with me. Just ask around the OS4 community, I doubt that you will find many who are OS4 only. That myth is an invention of those who are deluded enough into thinking that lumping an amigalike OS on top of existing mainstream hardware will somehow get Amigas back into homes without thinking through whether that device will really be an Amiga at all. People like CUSA.
So does that make AROS running on an x86 or MorphOS running on a Power Mac less Amiga for not running on an expensive $3,000 computer using an out-of-production PowerPC processor? What makes a computer using an ATX motherboard, PC power supply, and a PowerPC processor an Amiga device when Commodore never produced a single PowerPC based Amiga?
I got a few already, as for the mass market I couldn't give a flying...
Of course you don't. You just expect a company to put money into research and development to design a computer using a processor with a dead end road map that they can't mass-produce all so you can feel like you own the latest Amiga device.
.......yeesss....It's called a Steam box. What was your innovative solution again?
No, it's a video game console for homebrew development. A Steam Box is a line of computers being made by Valve that will include either their Stream client or StreamOS, and be released sometime around the end of 2015.
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We have experienced 68k programmers and enthusiasts not ARM programmers. The 68k is better. Look at RiscOS which has major ARM incompatibility problems due to 26 bit to 32 bit PC on the ARM, at least 3 modes of operation (original, Thumb 1, Thumb 2, and now ARMv8) and hundreds of different variations and configurations of ARM processors. 68000 programs which are 32 bit clean (minus M$ AmigaBasic and a handful of other programs) still work everywhere because the 68k had 32 bit address registers, a 32 bit PC and 32 bit capable addressing modes from the beginning. We have less baggage, much better code density (RiscOS ROMs are 4MB vs the largest 1MB Roms for a 68k Amiga which holds a lot) and the 68k is strong in single core and memory performance. The RiscOS has splits also with the original Acorn, RISCOS Ltd. and RISC OS OPEN. Only RISC OS OPEN has been able to advance far enough to run on the Rasberry Pi. They are struggling to add preemptive multitasking in a compatible way let alone multi-threading or SMP support. The AmigaOS is in much better shape than the RiscOS but they have tons of new cheap harware which means they probably will add more users than the AmigaOS despite the AmigaOS being significantly superior, even in 68k form. All we need is more modern cheap 68k hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS
Linux, Raspbmc, RetroPie, Firefox OS, and even Plan 9 can run on Raspberry Pi. Raspbian is probably the most advanced though.
As for 68k, it would have to be emulated through software as it would be too expensive to design a system using hardware emulation. Someone has already made a Full Speed Amiga 500 Emulator with DispmanX (http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17928) for the Raspberry Pi and even Raspberry Pi CEO Eben Upton has said he'd like to see Amiga emulation on the Raspberry Pi 2:
He told TechRadar: "I really want to see Amiga emulation on this thing - they were beautiful machines. The original Pi is almost good enough to run some Amiga 500 games if you turn the hardware fidelity down, but you can't get the later ones that rely heavily on the exact cycle timings.
"I think this [Raspberry Pi 2] will do a good Amiga 500 job, and there's a chance it could run Amiga 1200 games too."
Source: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing-components/peripherals/raspberry-pi-ceo-i-really-want-to-see-amiga-emulation-on-raspberry-pi-2-1283093
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Plan9 is way more advanced than Linux, just saying ;)
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Linux, Raspbmc, RetroPie, Firefox OS, and even Plan 9 can run on Raspberry Pi. Raspbian is probably the most advanced though.
I'm aware of the multitude of OSs which are available for the Rasberry Pi due to the oppurtunites created by 5 million units and growing of cheap hardware. AROS ARM Pi could even grab a slice of the pie and become the most used AmigaOS if it can be improved quickly enough and packaged in a convenient way. AROS is probably one of the most efficient and leanest OSs available which is good but SMP support in AROS, like most of the other Pi OSs, would be the real winner where multiple cores are available. AROS Pi has more potential than the original RiscOS Pi but neither are likely to crack the top 5 most used Pi OSs even though this could mean tens of thousands of new users for them.
As for 68k, it would have to be emulated through software as it would be too expensive to design a system using hardware emulation. Someone has already made a Full Speed Amiga 500 Emulator with DispmanX (http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17928) for the Raspberry Pi and even Raspberry Pi CEO Eben Upton has said he'd like to see Amiga emulation on the Raspberry Pi 2:
The Amiga emulation on the Pi is relatively weak because even the Pi 2 has lackluster single core and memory performance (due to the low electrical power RISC CPU design). The Pi and Pi 2 are pretty efficient for web browsing and other tasks where multiple cores can be used but an old Pentium III CPU is likely to outperform it with a quick compile of older single core games. Games and programs can sometimes be optimized and fixed up but this takes a lot of time. It would be possible to make a Pi like 68k CPU based board with competive performance and more convenience features (wi-fi, SATA, FPGA, RTC?) but costing probably in the $75-$150 U.S. price range. An enhanced 68k would have strong single core and memory performance like the x86/x86_64 but could have a much smaller memory footprint, even smaller than the Pi's Thumb2. The 2nd generation of FPGA Amiga hardware is already faster than most 68k original Amiga hardware. A 3rd generation could be clocked up and the cost reduced if produced in quantity. I believe it could become competitive in performance to hardware like the Pi. IMO, the AmigaOS would have a much better chance trying to sell in quantity on 68k hardware than trying to play catchup with OSs where developers have years of experience optimizing for the host CPU.
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Matthey has a weird idea that about 10% of all raspberry pi sales would have been m68k if an equivalent had existed, because for some reason he believes 10% of the pi buyers really only want to run old AmigaOS on them. I find this idea ... crazy. I own a raspberry pi and I have not even bothered running anything amigoid on it, I just used it to play with RISCOS. When I get home, I want to boot strap it bigendian Linux and build AROS hosted with DOpus Magellan.
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Unless a new m68k provides a proper MMU which makes it possible to also use modern operating systems, a Cheery Pi has extremely limited use, as there are already plenty of FPGA systems around that can run AmigaOS. Oh btw, AROS will be the most widely used amigoid system around anyways.
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It's overpriced, emulates Amiga, and yet is still more powerful and cheaper than the X1000. And unlike the X1000 it isn't running a processor with a dead end road map.
Overpriced depends on how much it cost to make but it is more than I would pay (or you obviously). However I have no issues with others buying it or indeed with it's very existence.
I said OS4 is about as much an Amiga as AROS and MorphOS. They're derivatives of Amiga, just like OS4, that have been around longer but don't get the same respect from some people in the community because they're not carrying the Amiga name and currently being sold with $3,000 computers running off of 10+ year old technology.
Yes, they are all derivatives, I used that word too and it's a fair thing to say. As for AROS and MorphOS not getting as much respect, I must disagree. I have a great deal of respect for such efforts and I think many others do too. By the way, MorphOS hardware is a bit dead-end too, not an immediate problem but one that will need addressing. Do you really think OS4 gets more respect? It's got a fair few haters too I'de say.
I said Amiga users would be better off not setting themselves up for failure and disappointment supporting another failed company using the Amiga trademark. Yes, that would include CUSA. However, CUSA never had much support from the community and just like A-Eon, ACube, and Hyperion ...Amiga, Inc. and Bill McEwen still profited off of them through licensing fees.
Oh I see. Well yes I'm sure they did, sadly Amiga Inc. don't seem to care who they licence as we all know . I must admit we are often let down by the promises of companies using the Amiga name but OS4 is as legitimate an Amiga derivative as MorphOS and the X1000 is at least an attempt at new hardware for said OS even if it is pricey.
So does that make AROS running on an x86 or MorphOS running on a Power Mac less Amiga for not running on an expensive $3,000 computer using an out-of-production PowerPC processor?
No, never said it did. In fact if CUSA had actually supplied all their "Amigas" with AROS from the start they may well have been received very differently.
What makes a computer using an ATX motherboard, PC power supply, and a PowerPC processor an Amiga device when Commodore never produced a single PowerPC based Amiga?
No, but (as you well know, or should) PPC hardware came onto the Amiga scene before the demise of Commodore (though not by much) and was well received at the time. The Blizzard PPC boards received rave reviews at the time. I get kind of sick of these sort of comments, I remember those days and PPC was seen as a natural path that gave Amiga users a huge power boost. Commodore may not have made a PPC Machine but they did allow others to make PPC accelerators and a lot of people at the time expected the Amiga to go in that direction.
Of course you don't. You just expect a company to put money into research and development to design a computer using a processor with a dead end road map that they can't mass-produce all so you can feel like you own the latest Amiga device.
Not at all, I expect nothing but the Amiga to suffer a slow and painful death, sad as that is. I HOPE that this will not be the case. As for owning the latest Amiga device... that's not me at all. I just don't have the problem with others doing it that you clearly do. For the record I'de buy a SAM over an X1000 any day and I haven't done that yet as I have other far more important things to buy (A 3D printer and a laser cutter for a start).
No, it's a video game console for homebrew development. A Steam Box is a line of computers being made by Valve that will include either their Stream client or StreamOS, and be released sometime around the end of 2015.
I assure you I am well aware of what a Steam box is, I have over 150 games on Steam and growing by the week. My point still stands however, I cannot see any serious in-roads into the home for the Amiga anytime soon and I see no reason at all why a video game console for homebrew would really make a difference. There are plenty of homebrew kits for existing consoles already, what is your unique selling point?
IMHO I think Natami was the most interesting project for a long time (hardware wise). Sadly .. well I'm sure you know that's not looking at all likely now.
Let's be honest, as things currently stand the Amiga is a small hobby market and nothing more, It's unlikely to ever be anything more again. Like so many others who own genuine Commodore machines and remember those halcyon days this breaks my heart.
I will say this though, I seriously think AROS will outlast all the other Amigalikes in the end but either way the choice yours to make. Yours, mine and any other Amigan. I'm OK with that, I wish all Amiga derivatives luck for the future and that includes OS4. As for X1000, well if you don't like it don't buy it but don't hate on others who do, it's their cash.
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Matthey has a weird idea that about 10% of all raspberry pi sales would have been m68k if an equivalent had existed, because for some reason he believes 10% of the pi buyers really only want to run old AmigaOS on them. I find this idea ... crazy. I own a raspberry pi and I have not even bothered running anything amigoid on it, I just used it to play with RISCOS. When I get home, I want to boot strap it bigendian Linux and build AROS hosted with DOpus Magellan.
That's not what I said but rather this:
I bet at least 10% of Pi sales have gone to people that would prefer to have an Amiga computer or 68k CPU but only Raspberry Pi was offered instead of Cherry Pi. Let's say only 3% would have payed up for the Amiga or 68k which would be 150,000 potential Amiga users.
If someone wanted to play games and browse the internet, they could buy a 5 year old PC for twice the cost of the Pi which would offer more performance and play more games. The numbers I used assume that most Raspberry Pi owners want something different, open, more efficient, and/or cheap. Do you think the Pi market is mostly hobbyists? Do you think that maybe these users are not content with current computer offerings? Do you think that Pi purchasers might be more likely to like alternative OSs and CPUs like the AmigaOS and 68k?
Unless a new m68k provides a proper MMU which makes it possible to also use modern operating systems, a Cheery Pi has extremely limited use, as there are already plenty of FPGA systems around that can run AmigaOS. Oh btw, AROS will be the most widely used amigoid system around anyways.
ThoR said it should be possible to make a compatibility layer for a 68040/68060 MMU to a newer 68k MMU. I expect he would not only help design the new MMU but even write and extend the software support in the MuLibs and write the compatibility layer if we had a real project with a real plan. I want 68k compatibility and a more advanced MMU, so if it was up to me, this area would be researched with a high likely hood of adding it.
I agree that AROS is the most likely AmigaOS to succeed (and survive) unless current Amiga businesses change their strategies and get their act together (not likely). Although AROS is behind most of the other Amiga OSs in many ways, AROS advances and source code have been very beneficial to the other Amiga OSs and would be even more important if trying to support another CPU. AROS can stand on it's own but is at a deficit as far as software, except for on 68k hardware where Amiga executables run but AROS 68k needs more optimization and/or faster 68k hardware. Using UAE for games isn't bad but it's limiting for apps where ARexx, the clipboard, resources, etc. can't be shared.
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I think almost 100% of Pi buyers are people who buy it with intention of creating various cheap solutions based on Linux. Within certain alternative OS camps, some very few buyers get them to develop and test out their OSes, but these people are extremely few. Even fewer are people who explicitly buy it to actually run alternative OSes. Who would buy a Cherry Pi only capable of running AmigaOS? There are already quite a few options, what would Cherry Pi offer over MiST, that already covers two marked segments? The only way to atract more users is by having a darn fast and darn modern, full fledged m68k, capable of running Linux too. Nobody in the real world cares about Thor an his libs for AmigaOS - "most people" only care for Amiga in terms of playing old games, and Raspberry Pi does this fine already (as does a Nintendo Wii for that matter, or whatever game console of the last two generations) - Pretty much only "community people" are interested in fast m68k to run OS3.x and old applications, and even among us, a large percentage are already happy with UAE and do not see the point of a Cherry Pi.
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How is UAE limiting ARexx etc?!!
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Oh, you mean m68k apps running in UAE hosted on AROS cannot share resources with AROS? Well, it can certainly be achieved, if AROS gets the type of "inline" emulation that OS4 and MorphOS has.
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I see no reason at all why a video game console for homebrew would really make a difference. There are plenty of homebrew kits for existing consoles already, what is your unique selling point?
Try to run homebrew on a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox,...etc without hacking it. They're closed devices that don't support homebrew out of the box.
The Amiga emulation on the Pi is relatively weak because even the Pi 2 has lackluster single core and memory performance (due to the low electrical power RISC CPU design). The Pi and Pi 2 are pretty efficient for web browsing and other tasks where multiple cores can be used but an old Pentium III CPU is likely to outperform it with a quick compile of older single core games. Games and programs can sometimes be optimized and fixed up but this takes a lot of time. It would be possible to make a Pi like 68k CPU based board with competive performance and more convenience features (wi-fi, SATA, FPGA, RTC?) but costing probably in the $75-$150 U.S. price range. An enhanced 68k would have strong single core and memory performance like the x86/x86_64 but could have a much smaller memory footprint, even smaller than the Pi's Thumb2. The 2nd generation of FPGA Amiga hardware is already faster than most 68k original Amiga hardware. A 3rd generation could be clocked up and the cost reduced if produced in quantity. I believe it could become competitive in performance to hardware like the Pi. IMO, the AmigaOS would have a much better chance trying to sell in quantity on 68k hardware than trying to play catchup with OSs where developers have years of experience optimizing for the host CPU.
There are alternatives to the Raspberry Pi, such as the pcDuino3 nano which is more powerful for around $30. I prefer software emulation but for those who want hardware emulation there are FPGA add-ons for the Raspberry Pi and BeagleBone, such as the LOGi (http://hackaday.com/2013/12/18/fpgas-for-the-pi-and-bone/), and the pcDuino3 nano also features a Arduino-style expansion so it can use an FPGA shield. There's also the Parallella, an ARM+FPGA SBC for $99 and the most expensive of the ones I've mentioned. Having both ARM and 68k would at least make it future proof and backwards compatible.
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Try to run homebrew on a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox,...etc without hacking it. They're closed devices that don't support homebrew out of the box.
Errrr... you don't know me too well do you? LMAO. ALL my consoles (NGC, Original XBox and WII) are hacked. Viper Chip, X-Ecutor 3, Letterbomb respectively. My Dreamcast has a boot disk for homebrew and even my N64 that I sold had an V64 Doctor. I've hacked, modded or Jailbroken everthing I own. The only exception is the PS3 as it's actually my daughters and they (I have twins) just don't use it anymore since they started playing Skyrim on the PC.
...hmm, come to think of it I've not done my Kindle yet, I've been rather busy lately.
But OK, I take your point. So I ask you this instead. Why would I buy your design over OUYA , Uzebox, Caanoo, Pandora, nD or even Minimig, FPGA Arcade or Raspberry Pi?
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@ Lionheart
man what's going on with the a.org nowadays?? it took 49 posts...49 posts!
dammit TMHTG I miss ya bro;)
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I have to disagree with the post earlier that claims that many Pi users/buyers will get around to trying some flavor of AmigaOS on their Pi. Most Pi users/buyers have never even heard of an Amiga and even if they have, they don't want to load an OS that has no software base to speak of, other than 20+ year old games and a few apps that are so woefully outdated that they'd have to be masochists. There's nothing compelling enough to get them to run ANY of the various Amigoid operating systems. Most Pi users/buyers acquired the Pi to play with some variant of Linux or Android. It's like saying that people who buy a modern i7 processor will want to try running CP/M or MS-DOS on it. Until any of the various Amigoid operating systems offer something more than just being different, no one will adopt/use it. And right now, even the best of the Amigoid operating systems haven't achieved rough parity with Windows 95. I wish people would stop playing these absurd "what if" games and start living in reality. Even if Aeon and Hyperion were to magically update OS4 to support modern hardware, SMP, 3D graphics, etc....no one will adopt it. Home users and offices already have a huge investment in current software and systems that work. And they're not going to just throw that out the window no matter how much some of you here want to relive the glory days of the Amiga. All the Amigoid operating systems are just curiosities or hobbies to the RATIONAL people here and outside of this site. Unfortunately we have blind, religious zealots who troll this site and hijack nearly every thread with this absurd talk of how an Amigoid OS is going to take the world by storm if it simply had this, that or the other feature...or modern hardware. Wake the f@ck up.
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Yawn.. (Blink)...huh? Sorry did I miss something? Ohh man who's been using my Workbench 1.3 disk as a coffee coaster?
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Blind Religious zealots? Do they use seeing eye sheep? Only use brail bibles?
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Blind Religious zealots? Do they use seeing eye sheep? Only use brail bibles?
It does sound very biblical. I bet Jesus cured a few of them too.
But to be sure my Amigas are definitely hobby material. And the classic games of course. My wife just finished another game of Loopz on the 1200, having a break from the iPad Air for some real gaming.
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It does sound very biblical. I bet Jesus cured a few of them too.
Darn, I wish he could cure the name callers.
Question: Do trolls ever set their bridges on fire during a "flame-on" anger burst?
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No one is buying Rasp Pi's in the collective scheme of things to run an Amiga OS variant. None.
You could have every AmigaOS variant ported to Rasp Pi and the total number of people buying the things to run said OS variants would be in the fraction of a percent.
So far, 500,000 Rasp Pi 2's have been sold. There's a pretty fair variety of offshoot OS's to choose from, yet I'll still wager 99.99% of them (Pi's as a whole) are running nothing but what the things run natively as a mainstream OS - Linux.
A $35 "Amiga" won't re-invent the glory days. The number of people even running AROS for Pi on a regular basis would be minimal, and if people haven't already crossed the proverbial divide and coughed out $35 on hardware to run AROS on the Pi, what difference would AOS or MOS make.
Even the new Pi is a pretty horrible experience if you want to run a daily driver, GUI based OS on it - even Linux. I find the AROS offerings for it nothing more than a "can we do this" case.
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as was predictable this thread became an argument between fractions once more, but i think everybody had their say already and the positions are clear not just since today. though there is still the original poster buried below this all and i am still puzzled as to what it was he wanted to propose.
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No one is buying Rasp Pi's in the collective scheme of things to run an Amiga OS variant. None.
You could have every AmigaOS variant ported to Rasp Pi and the total number of people buying the things to run said OS variants would be in the fraction of a percent.
So far, 500,000 Rasp Pi 2's have been sold. There's a pretty fair variety of offshoot OS's to choose from, yet I'll still wager 99.99% of them (Pi's as a whole) are running nothing but what the things run natively as a mainstream OS - Linux.
A $35 "Amiga" won't re-invent the glory days. The number of people even running AROS for Pi on a regular basis would be minimal, and if people haven't already crossed the proverbial divide and coughed out $35 on hardware to run AROS on the Pi, what difference would AOS or MOS make.
Even the new Pi is a pretty horrible experience if you want to run a daily driver, GUI based OS on it - even Linux. I find the AROS offerings for it nothing more than a "can we do this" case.
This.
The Pi is a fantastic toy, and it has a ton of useful applications (I use mine for video surveillance), but as a desktop system it's absolutely horrific. Framebuffer drivers were cool back in '98, but trying to run a full-HD desktop with it is just painful.
That being said, it could definitely become a decent machine for AROS if someone wrote proper drivers for it. Unfortunately, it's nothing more than a novelty until then.
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" There are no people in the community with skills and know-how to update any of the IP stacks. "
Olaf Barthel ?
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The Pi is a fantastic toy, and it has a ton of useful applications (I use mine for video surveillance), but as a desktop system it's absolutely horrific. Framebuffer drivers were cool back in '98, but trying to run a full-HD desktop with it is just painful.
the pi now has a hardware accelerated X server afaik. pi2 should be a lot more usable from the desktop than the pi1.
Not that I use mine for that - I use mine for Kodi and emulation (in a picade).
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Yeah maybe Olsen, but I don't think he is interested.
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Errrr... you don't know me too well do you? LMAO. ALL my consoles (NGC, Original XBox and WII) are hacked. Viper Chip, X-Ecutor 3, Letterbomb respectively. My Dreamcast has a boot disk for homebrew and even my N64 that I sold had an V64 Doctor. I've hacked, modded or Jailbroken everthing I own. The only exception is the PS3 as it's actually my daughters and they (I have twins) just don't use it anymore since they started playing Skyrim on the PC.
...hmm, come to think of it I've not done my Kindle yet, I've been rather busy lately.
But OK, I take your point. So I ask you this instead. Why would I buy your design over OUYA , Uzebox, Caanoo, Pandora, nD or even Minimig, FPGA Arcade or Raspberry Pi?
I've installed modchips in various consoles (PS2, Wii, XBox, Gamecube, PS,...etc) and have hacked a few hard drives for the Xbox 360. However, newer consoles prevent the use of modchips and exploits through firmware updates.
You forgot the Dingoo. :p And the last time I checked the nD was vaporware. Most of those systems are also running Linux, not AROS. The OUYA has the best specifications but is really just an Android with a controller that plugs into your TV.
I'm not asking you to buy anything and I have no intention of selling a custom made board. What I suggest is an open standard for creating a console/computer running AROS. Using a Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone,HummingBoard, Orange Pi, pcDuino3 nano...etc, it would even be possible to add an FPGA expansion that would also allow it to function as a Minimig. The benefit of doing this would give AROS a standard to run on and increase development and interest in the OS. Even Linux has trouble supporting all the hardware available on the PC, which is another reason why MorphOS sticks with Power Macs and OS4 sticks to their expensive custom boards. It would be easier for AROS to get one open standard single-board computer working well than a thousand different PCs. It's a better starting point. The console aspect and homebrew community development could set them apart from their competitors, as Amiga has a better reputation when it comes to gaming than Linux.
@ Lionheart
man what's going on with the a.org nowadays?? it took 49 posts...49 posts!
dammit TMHTG I miss ya bro;)
O_o What's TMHTG?
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I'm not asking you to buy anything and I have no intention of selling a custom made board. What I suggest is an open standard for creating a console/computer running AROS. Using a Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone,HummingBoard, Orange Pi, pcDuino3 nano...etc, it would even be possible to add an FPGA expansion that would also allow it to function as a Minimig. The benefit of doing this would give AROS a standard to run on and increase development and interest in the OS. Even Linux has trouble supporting all the hardware available on the PC, which is another reason why MorphOS sticks with Power Macs and OS4 sticks to their expensive custom boards. It would be easier for AROS to get one open standard single-board computer working well than a thousand different PCs. It's a better starting point. The console aspect and homebrew community development could set them apart from their competitors, as Amiga has a better reputation when it comes to gaming than Linux.
There's already a standard system for running AROS. It's an x86 system. Or if you cling to 68K, then run 68K AROS on classic hardware, one of the UAE variants, or on a MiniMig. No one in their right mind wants to run any Amigoid OS on a console. What would be the point of dedicating a console to a dead OS? To play 25 yr old side-scrollers? Why would anyone complicate a Pi by adding an FPGA like you suggest? It isn't needed. The MiniMig already does what you're suggesting without the overhead and cost of a Pi. This is getting absurd.
Once again, another thread hijacked by someone who believes that an Amigoid OS would take the world by storm "if".
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There's already a standard system for running AROS. It's an x86 system. Or if you cling to 68K, then run 68K AROS on classic hardware, one of the UAE variants, or on a MiniMig. No one in their right mind wants to run any Amigoid OS on a console. What would be the point of dedicating a console to a dead OS? To play 25 yr old side-scrollers? Why would anyone complicate a Pi by adding an FPGA like you suggest? It isn't needed. The MiniMig already does what you're suggesting without the overhead and cost of a Pi. This is getting absurd.
Once again, another thread hijacked by someone who believes that an Amigoid OS would take the world by storm "if".
Once again, another thread hijacked by someone who can't read. I never said that an Amigoid OS would take the world by storm. My idea would at least make the Minimig cheaper and not just a custom made board replicating an A500.
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O_o What's TMHTG?
Probably the most fanatical Morph OS fanboy ever. I'll say no more.
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Fanatic, or angry and abusive?
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Please don't speak his name, the forums have been so peaceful lately. :lol:
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"He who shall not be named"
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well let's just say I'm honestly worried about him...very very odd not to have him 'visit' every single thread that has a slight tint of Amiga OS4.x in it.
@ Oldsmobile_Mike & danbeaver & Tripitaka
I know I know but honestly I miss him like the sheep dog misses the coyote:)
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Once again, another thread hijacked by someone who can't read. I never said that an Amigoid OS would take the world by storm. My idea would at least make the Minimig cheaper and not just a custom made board replicating an A500.
OK. Then please explain your lack of math skills. How does adding an FPGA extension to a dev board or a Pi make for a cheaper system than a standalone Minimig that already does everything you've outlined? The Minimig already has the functionality you're talking about and the extra pins to implement it as well, so again, your suggestion is a bit absurd. It's recreating the wheel and making it more complicated and more expensive as well. Or one could use the FPGA Replay board. It has even more expandability and it's available as well.
And I read what you wrote quite clearly and even quoted it in my response and now you're trying to say something different. You suggested that a console created from a dev board with an FPGA extension to run AROS is a good idea. It isn't. There are already better options for that, and cheaper too.
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well let's just say I'm honestly worried about him...very very odd not to have him 'visit' every single thread that has a slight tint of Amiga OS4.x in it.
@ Oldsmobile_Mike & danbeaver & Tripitaka
I know I know but honestly I miss him like the sheep dog misses the coyote:)
I honestly think that most "heated" debates on A.org are between people whom if they had met face to face would have a great chat about a commonly shared interest over a pint or two. He was the ONLY person ever on A.org to genuinely annoy me.
@ klx300r.... ..I think you may have a touch of masochism going on there buddy. :P
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@ Tripitaka
I think you've got your 'definition' confused there mate:lol:
Let me clarify the reference for the youngins here & for those unfortunate souls that never got the chance to watch Saturday morning cartoons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w
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OK. Then please explain your lack of math skills. How does adding an FPGA extension to a dev board or a Pi make for a cheaper system than a standalone Minimig that already does everything you've outlined?
Raspberry Pi = $20 to $35 FPGA = $25 to $89 Total cost = $45 to $125
Parallella (ARM+FPGA) = $99
Minimig = $150 to $200
And I read what you wrote quite clearly and even quoted it in my response and now you're trying to say something different. You suggested that a console created from a dev board with an FPGA extension to run AROS is a good idea. It isn't. There are already better options for that, and cheaper too.
I never said that the FPGA extension was for running AROS. That I agree would be stupid and pointless. My idea was to have them running in parallel. That way you would have the benefit of two systems in one: A NG using an ARM processor and running AROS and a hardware emulated 68k Amiga using the FPGA extension. The concept is kinda similar to the first PS3s with PS2 backwards compatibility except with an FPGA.
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@ Tripitaka
I think you've got your 'definition' confused there mate:lol:
Let me clarify the reference for the youngins here & for those unfortunate souls that never got the chance to watch Saturday morning cartoons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w
Most of the important lessons in life are learned from Warner Brother's Cartoons -- think about it.
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Most of the important lessons in life are learned from Warner Brother's Cartoons -- think about it.
:biglaugh::hammer:
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Most of the important lessons in life are learned from Warner Brother's Cartoons -- think about it.
I learned most of my important lessons by watching "The Edison Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Edison_Twins)" and "Danger Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Bay)" on Disney Channel. Of course PBS helped, too. I feel bad for kids these days, they don't have nothin' like what we had growing up. :(
Now get off my lawn! ;)
(http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Get-Off-My-Lawn.jpg)
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@ Tripitaka
I think you've got your 'definition' confused there mate:lol:
Let me clarify the reference for the youngins here & for those unfortunate souls that never got the chance to watch Saturday morning cartoons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_u3YRZb74w
Thank you, I've had an awful day and that made me laugh. XD
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Ah, M1 Garand 0.30-06, 8 round clip, weighing 10 lbs and effective at 400 meters.
I learned most of my important lessons by watching "The Edison Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Edison_Twins)" and "Danger Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Bay)" on Disney Channel. Of course PBS helped, too. I feel bad for kids these days, they don't have nothin' like what we had growing up. :(
Now get off my lawn! ;)
(http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Get-Off-My-Lawn.jpg)
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You must have a big lawn. ;)
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Did I mention that the bullets pierced light armor?
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Did I mention that the bullets pierced light armor?
Shhh! Someone might hear and ban the bullets. I mean, you can't stick these and .50 cal rounds in a pistol or an assault rifle and ambush someone so they aren't as dangerous as them little ones with the green tips ;).
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Did I say how much I liked the sound of a Chevy 427 with a Tri-barrel carb and mechanical lifters at idle?
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Do you have kids, @danbeaver?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxxrOY3r89M
:lol:
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No, I sold them all for medical experiments.
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No, I sold them all for medical experiments.
You can do that?!?!?, that is awesome ;)
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You can do that?!?!?, that is awesome ;)
It's his own fault for belonging to a religion that doesn't allow contraception.
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Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great; if a sperm get wasted, God gets quite irate.
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Then He must have been gone crazy of anger by now, and this not even as result of anticonception but His own designs of the reproduction mechanism.
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No he just sits at home humming a sad song about god loving those who treat their semen with more care. He should have become a Protestant. That's why
it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in 1517, he may not have realized the full significance of what he was doing. But four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas.
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Would that be French Ticklers, Black Mambos, and Crocodile Ribs?
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It's his own fault for belonging to a religion that doesn't allow contraception.
But it does allow him to sell his kids :)
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But it does allow him to sell his kids :)
For the good of humanity. Scientific experiments. At least he's not making them march up and down the square!