Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: hishamk on February 27, 2015, 03:46:23 PM
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Hey guys,
Anybody knows if Feelin (http://www.feelin.fr) managed to get any traction within the Amiga/Amiga-Like OS community? I'm hard pressed to find any programs that use it.
The framework does look compelling. I've emailed the author but got no response.
I suppose it's dead and MUI still rules?
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Hey guys,
Anybody knows if Feelin (http://www.feelin.fr) managed to get any traction within the Amiga/Amiga-Like OS community? I'm hard pressed to find any programs that use it.
The framework does look compelling. I've emailed the author but got no response.
I suppose it's dead and MUI still rules?
Yep!
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I'm afraid it's dead indeed, and it's too bad, there was a lot of good ideas:
- free from any Amiga legacy (GUI was real nice looking, and free from old gray legacy)
- CSS styling is a must
- ability to fully describe apps using xml
- integrated logging system
etc..
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That's too bad.
Would be cool if A-Eon 'adopts' it.
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- ability to fully describe apps using xml
It is good idea but not really killer feature. If you have visual editor it is right format to store UI but defining UI in XML is not easier than defining UI in C. Instead of handling coding errors introduced in C language you are handling syntatical errors in XML... but it is very neat idea nevertheless and I would like to try that for MUI, too.
- integrated logging system
I dont know why any UI system should have integrated logging system unless this mean getting some useful data about errors in UI definition/logic.
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It is good idea but not really killer feature. If you have visual editor it is right format to store UI but defining UI in XML is not easier than defining UI in C. Instead of handling coding errors introduced in C language you are handling syntatical errors in XML... but it is very neat idea nevertheless and I would like to try that for MUI, too.
I dont know why any UI system should have integrated logging system unless this mean getting some useful data about errors in UI definition/logic.
I agree about the logging built into the UI that does seem strange. Deffining a UI with XML not too mad. Believe latest versions of .net define the UI with XML in the background.
Dont see the difference between having coding errors and syntax errors thoguh both would be picked up ??
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also why would a gui need its own memory mangement system ?
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It is good idea but not really killer feature. If you have visual editor it is right format to store UI but defining UI in XML is not easier than defining UI in C. Instead of handling coding errors introduced in C language you are handling syntatical errors in XML... but it is very neat idea nevertheless and I would like to try that for MUI, too.
MUI Royale (Hollywood plugin) tranlates an XML file to a MUI GUI. I think it's easier than within C++ as I never got MUI to work with C++ and with MUI Royale it's a rather easy write down of definitions (execept you need quite some time to read the documentation of all the MUI functions).
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It aos depends on the IDE etc. Visual studio is great for creating UIs but I cant get on with netbeans or windows builder in eclipse and prefer to build UIs by hand in swing
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It is good idea but not really killer feature. If you have visual editor it is right format to store UI but defining UI in XML is not easier than defining UI in C. Instead of handling coding errors introduced in C language you are handling syntatical errors in XML... but it is very neat idea nevertheless and I would like to try that for MUI, too.
I dont know why any UI system should have integrated logging system unless this mean getting some useful data about errors in UI definition/logic.
No matter what is talking about you always have negative words about it O_o :-(
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I never even knew about it. I'm definitely going to play with it a little. I don't think there's really anything on the Amiga that's dead. ;)
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MUI Royale (Hollywood plugin) tranlates an XML file to a MUI GUI. I think it's easier than within C++ as I never got MUI to work with C++ and with MUI Royale it's a rather easy write down of definitions (execept you need quite some time to read the documentation of all the MUI functions).
Cough :-)
http://sourceforge.net/p/hollypaint/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/hollypaint.xml
MUI-Royale as a shared library which could be used from any language would be nice to have.
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It is good idea but not really killer feature. If you have visual editor it is right format to store UI but defining UI in XML is not easier than defining UI in C. Instead of handling coding errors introduced in C language you are handling syntatical errors in XML... but it is very neat idea nevertheless and I would like to try that for MUI, too.
.XIB files are XML archives of the objects (and their properties) required to build an interface and that's worked quite well for nextStep and OSX/iOS :-)
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.XIB files are XML archives of the objects (and their properties) required to build an interface and that's worked quite well for nextStep and OSX/iOS :-)
But dont you use some kind of visual UI builder to create XML files?
I mean, defining MUI GUI in C is easy, defining Feeling GUI in XML looks easy too, no problem with that. But good XML editors for Amiga are missing...
@fransexy
You having a hangover again? :-)
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Cough :-)
http://sourceforge.net/p/hollypaint/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/hollypaint.xml
MUI-Royale as a shared library which could be used from any language would be nice to have.
Maybe it does not look that bad at all... I have seen XAML and thought there is way too much text.
So with MUI Royale you write XML file and it is translated to UI? There is no visual editor? Maybe writing XML files by hand is workable after all...
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Maybe it does not look that bad at all... I have seen XAML and thought there is way too much text.
So with MUI Royale you write XML file and it is translated to UI? There is no visual editor? Maybe writing XML files by hand is workable after all...
Yes, it's translated on-the-fly. I've written the XML file by hand. No problem because I had already experience with MUI and can type with 10 fingers.
In the meantime someone is writing a visual editor
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39950&forum=32
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Yes, it's translated on-the-fly. I've written the XML file by hand. No problem because I had already experience with MUI and can type with 10 fingers.
In the meantime someone is writing a visual editor
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39950&forum=32
Maybe XML is better than I thought even for hand typed coding. I wrote simple (incomplete) XML to C converter and here are results:
Object *create_app_tree()
{
Object *app = ApplicationObject,
MUIA_Application_Menustrip, mymenustrip = MenustripObject,
MUIA_Family_Child, MenuObject, MUIA_Menu_Title, "Project",
MUIA_Family_Child, new_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "New...", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, open_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "Open...", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "",
MUIA_Family_Child, save_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "Save", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, saveas_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "Save", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, MenuObject, MUIA_Menu_Title, "Export",
MUIA_Family_Child, export_ilbm_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "ILBM", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, export_bmp_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "BMP", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, export_jpg_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "JPG", End,
MUIA_Family_Child, export_gif_mnu = MenuItemObject, MUIA_Menuitem_Title, "GIF", End, End,
It needs more work but if someone is writing visual editor that can output XML...
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Maybe XML is better than I thought even for hand typed coding. I wrote simple (incomplete) XML to C converter and here are results:
It needs more work but if someone is writing visual editor that can output XML...
You can use XSLT to convert between different XML formats. That would allow you to use your prefered visual editor.
I wrote a xml to reaction tool 10 years ago using expat.library, it created compilable code. Being able to draw GUIs on the fly without modifying the binaries didn't seem much useful as if you add new functions you would still need to recompile the C code anyway. Later I started to write a mui version but got a little bored.
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I'm afraid it's dead indeed, and it's too bad, there was a lot of good ideas:
- free from any Amiga legacy (GUI was real nice looking, and free from old gray legacy)
- CSS styling is a must
- ability to fully describe apps using xml
- integrated logging system
etc..
The biggest problem I remember from looking at the code a few years back was that the XML parsing was nowhere near compliant with the XML spec, I believe, and there might have been various other smaller issues too.
No major showstoppers that'd take a huge amount of work if someone were to want to clean it up, but I remember thinking it was not really usable as-is.
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Hey guys,
Anybody knows if Feelin (http://www.feelin.fr) managed to get any traction within the Amiga/Amiga-Like OS community? I'm hard pressed to find any programs that use it.
The framework does look compelling. I've emailed the author but got no response.
I suppose it's dead and MUI still rules?
You may want to try the email here:
https://github.com/olvlvl
I tracked it down through other projects he is still maintaining. I wondered about the same thing a few months ago. It looked promising and it seemed really cool, especially for AROS. By the way, the source is available on the site so maybe someone can fork it?
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IIRC some years ago someone had continued to work on Feelin.
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You can use XSLT to convert between different XML formats. That would allow you to use your prefered visual editor.
I wrote a xml to reaction tool 10 years ago using expat.library, it created compilable code. Being able to draw GUIs on the fly without modifying the binaries didn't seem much useful as if you add new functions you would still need to recompile the C code anyway. Later I started to write a mui version but got a little bored.
Coincidentally my first revision of muixml was using expat.library, too, but I found it too cumbersome for this purpose. Now I am using mini xml and quite easily I can map XML to equivalent C code.
Only if I understood mini xml API better...
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@fransexy
You having a hangover again? :-)
:-O so predictable i am? :-(
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It needs more work but if someone is writing visual editor that can output XML...
Aha.
http://aminet.net/package/dev/gui/muixml
I'm interested in the source code with open source license. :juggler:
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Aha.
http://aminet.net/package/dev/gui/muixml
I'm interested in the source code with open source license. :juggler:
I can do that. I was thinking GPL/LGPL, moving code generators to link lib and main executable would be GPL. How that sounds?
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You may want to try the email here:
https://github.com/olvlvl
I tracked it down through other projects he is still maintaining. I wondered about the same thing a few months ago. It looked promising and it seemed really cool, especially for AROS. By the way, the source is available on the site so maybe someone can fork it?
I did, still no reply. It's dead, Jim!
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You can maybe try tweeter instead : @olvlvl
Kamelito
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Seems like a re-invention of the wheel to me.
Then again, I've always hated the add on UI experiences (including MUI, both on user and dev side) and prefer a stock Amiga experience.
Though I finally did cave a bit back in the day and gave in and regged MUI so I could run MailManager and GMSMailer.
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Seems like a re-invention of the wheel to me.
Then again, I've always hated the add on UI experiences (including MUI, both on user and dev side) and prefer a stock Amiga experience.
Though I finally did cave a bit back in the day and gave in and regged MUI so I could run MailManager and GMSMailer.
From developer POV using low level Intuition is pain in the ass. GadTools saved some typing but there is still way too much coding involved.
Technically it is possible create GadTools GUI from XML saving lot of work.
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I can do that. I was thinking GPL/LGPL, moving code generators to link lib and main executable would be GPL. How that sounds?
Great. :)
How do we want to proceed? Should I create a Sourceforge project?
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Well, I got a reply... with Olivier's permission I'm posting it below.
"Hi Hisham,
Sorry for the late reply. Feelin had some positive feedback at the time (10 years ago was it ?). I worked with 3 other developer to port it to MorphOS, AOS4 and AROS. A designer contributed very nice skins that can be chosen from the installer. I was offered a GoldEd licence and an PPC Amiga, which was very nice. Unfortunately I had to quit its development because I couldn't afford to maintain it anymore. That's too bad because the last update broke the preference system :-/
I was wondering about putting it on GitHub, because I still have the source history in lzx archives.
I hope you'll enjoy it. Also try the previous version, it might contains a better working preference system.
Best regards,
Olivier"
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Well that sounds like good news at least.
Lets hope some one else can continue with it.
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Great. :)
How do we want to proceed? Should I create a Sourceforge project?
Yes please :) I dont have much time at the moment to do anything so any help is appreciated.
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Yes please :) I dont have much time at the moment to do anything so any help is appreciated.
I've sent a PM to you.
Here's project page:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/muixml/
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Yes please :) I dont have much time at the moment to do anything so any help is appreciated.
:bump:
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Just sent you an email ;-)
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Just sent you an email ;-)
Thanks.
https://sourceforge.net/p/muixml/code/HEAD/tree/
I'll first have to port mxml lib to AROS.