Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Yasu on February 27, 2015, 01:23:00 PM
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I've heard a lot from people that they don't want to make a switch from AmigaOS 4 to MorphOS because of the "look and feel of the latter". So I thought about experimenting to see how close I can actually come to make MorphOS look and behave like AmigaOS 4.
But I don't own an AmigaOS 4 machine nor have much experience with one. So I want to ask the community about the things that are different. Things that an end user (potentionally) can change themselves.
Note: I'm not planning to start a flame war nor take this to a "MorphOS is superior" line of argument. I just want to see how far I can actually take this.
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I've heard a lot from people that they don't want to make a switch from AmigaOS 4 to MorphOS because of the "look and feel of the latter". So I thought about experimenting to see how close I can actually come to make MorphOS look and behave like AmigaOS 4.
For me the feel is the difficult part of the equation. I tried but I could never make Ambient + MOS Shell feel similar to OS4 Workbench + VincED Shell.
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For me the feel is the difficult part of the equation. I tried but I could never make Ambient + MOS Shell feel similar to OS4 Workbench + VincED Shell.
I will try to get as close as possible. Changing the icons and how prefs works will be easy. It's the rest I need help with.
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For me the feel is the difficult part of the equation. I tried but I could never make Ambient + MOS Shell feel similar to OS4 Workbench + VincED Shell.
Making Ambient to feel like Workbench is very difficult. It is like trying to get Ferrari feel like Lada 1200.
But you can of course replace MorphOS shell with VincED.
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Making Ambient to feel like Workbench is very difficult. It is like trying to get Ferrari feel like Lada 1200.
But you can of course replace MorphOS shell with VincED.
Like I said, I'm gonna try to get as close as possible. Without breaking anything. If people then still find MorphOS icky there is not much I can do :)
Thanks for the tip!
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Like I said, I'm gonna try to get as close as possible. Without breaking anything. If people then still find MorphOS icky there is not much I can do :)
Thanks for the tip!
Installing KingCon is also possible and it is (was?) even possible to use Workbench 3.9 (http://aminet.net/package/docs/help/AmigaWBOnPegasos).
I dont know how relevant that guide is to MorphOS 3.x because so much has changed and Odyssey uses Ambient default icons system.
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@Yasu
you might want to talk to @klesterjr about this. he's done work in the past on MUI themes, icons, ambient settings, etc. to get MOS to 'look and feel' like AOS4 better than i've seen others achieve so far.
-- eliyahu
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@Yasu
you might want to talk to @klesterjr about this. he's done work in the past on MUI themes, icons, ambient settings, etc. to get MOS to 'look and feel' like AOS4 better than i've seen others achieve so far.
-- eliyahu
Does he have a homepage about this?
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Does he have a homepage about this?
unfortunately, no. IIRC there was some issue about him using the icons from AOS4 without approval or some such nonsense, but i could be remembering wrong. the best thing would be to PM him. ken is an awesome guy. if anyone can help, it'll be him.
-- eliyahu
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unfortunately, no. IIRC there was some issue about him using the icons from AOS4 without approval or some such nonsense, but i could be remembering wrong. the best thing would be to PM him. ken is an awesome guy. if anyone can help, it'll be him.
-- eliyahu
Yeah, last time I asked the Mason icons guy he said the same thing. But a lot of the icons are public domain fortunately.
I will PM him :)
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The easiest way to get your hands on the OS4 icons is to buy them on CD here:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=1221
Unfortunately the icons are bundled with some useless stuff, but at least the price of less than 0,10 Euros/icon looks quite reasonable to me.
;)
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I'm wondering how to make Amiga OS 4.x feel more like MorphOS. ;)
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I find that MorphOS looks horrible, feels nothing like an Amiga to me. I've spent hours trying to get it to feel right and got nowhere.
MorphOS has great bones, and in some cases has some nice features. Hardware support is better, but I can't use it. I find myself dual booting back to AmigaOS.
If someone came up with a good AmigaOS theme then I'd start using it more.
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Itix
Wasnt there an ambient "OS4" theme? Thought i had that somewhere..
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I've heard a lot from people that they don't want to make a switch from AmigaOS 4 to MorphOS because of the "look and feel of the latter". So I thought about experimenting to see how close I can actually come to make MorphOS look and behave like AmigaOS 4.
But I don't own an AmigaOS 4 machine nor have much experience with one. So I want to ask the community about the things that are different. Things that an end user (potentionally) can change themselves.
Note: I'm not planning to start a flame war nor take this to a "MorphOS is superior" line of argument. I just want to see how far I can actually take this.
Sounds like a fun project, Yasu. :) Hope you'll make a post on your blog about it with info on how you did it.
Read his blog here guys: https://morphosuser.wordpress.com/
I don't know if it is of any help, but there are two AmigaOS 4 icon packs on the Amiga Look website. Those are in .PNG, so should work fine with MorphOS.
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I find that MorphOS looks horrible, feels nothing like an Amiga to me. I've spent hours trying to get it to feel right and got nowhere.
MorphOS has great bones, and in some cases has some nice features. Hardware support is better, but I can't use it. I find myself dual booting back to AmigaOS.
It's 15 mins work to get it look like this:
(http://library.morph.zone/images/thumb/b/b1/Separate_prefs_in_MorphOS.png/600px-Separate_prefs_in_MorphOS.png) (http://library.morph.zone/images/b/b1/Separate_prefs_in_MorphOS.png)
To get that:
1) Download OFour or FourOne skin and take it in use.
2) Copy icons from OS4 CD (drag&drop into Icon Information window). To get separate prefs icons, just copy icon for every prefs you want (use the actual name of certain prefs to icon name) and set Default Tool to ":MorphOS/Prefs/Preferences".
3) Disable "Separate files from drawers" from Ambient Settings to get drawers and files mixed like in AmigaOS.
4) Disable "Browser mode" from Ambient Settings to remove some filemanagement options and to get plain looking windows.
5) Set background pictures/colors and fonts to match OS4.
I guess that's a pretty good starting point. Then you can tune MUI to look OS4 too etc. If you have original OS4 CD, you can use the stuff found there to get authentic feeling.
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It's 15 mins work to get it look like this:
(http://library.morph.zone/images/thumb/b/b1/Separate_prefs_in_MorphOS.png/600px-Separate_prefs_in_MorphOS.png) (http://library.morph.zone/images/b/b1/Separate_prefs_in_MorphOS.png)
To get that:
1) Download OFour or FourOne skin and take it in use.
2) Copy icons from OS4 CD (drag&drop into Icon Information window). To get separate prefs icons, just copy icon for every prefs you want (use the actual name of certain prefs to icon name) and set Default Tool to ":MorphOS/Prefs/Preferences".
3) Disable "Separate files from drawers" from Ambient Settings to get drawers and files mixed like in AmigaOS.
4) Disable "Browser mode" from Ambient Settings to remove some filemanagement options and to get plain looking windows.
5) Set background pictures/colors and fonts to match OS4.
I guess that's a pretty good starting point. Then you can tune MUI to look OS4 too etc. If you have original OS4 CD, you can use the stuff found there to get authentic feeling.
That IS a good start. The question is if this is enough. There has to be more stuff that makes the systems so different it puts people off.
So, more suggestions please :)
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Making Ambient to feel like Workbench is very difficult. It is like trying to get Ferrari feel like Lada 1200.
I would say Ferrari vs Mini to be more fair. (Or did you mean Ferrari for OS4 Workbench ;) barebones but fast and expensive... )
Also on A1200 I used DirWork and TinyMeter. Never liked DOpus 5 or the AmiStart menu on AROS for that matter.
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That IS a good start. The question is if this is enough. There has to be more stuff that makes the systems so different it puts people off.
So, more suggestions please :)
Yeah, I probably can come up with the solutions, but I too need to understand first what are the real causes. In many cases it just feels that it's the base attitude which is the problem, they just don't even try to get the system like they want before declaring the conclusion.
But it surely would be nice to hear some real details which are wanted to be different, or is it finally just other than concrete reasons why users decide which they prefer.
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I use this skin (http://aminet.net/package/pix/theme/AOS3.x_Skin) for an OS3.x look.
I remember when I first started using MorphOS I was having a hard time with Ambient. The hardest thing for me to adjust to was the very limited options available in the pull-down menus compared to AmigaOS. But most of the familiar options are available in right-click menus instead.
Others have mentioned a number of good tricks already. I think Ambient's automatic icon scaling and sorting can also be disabled (i.e., you can manually position and snapshot your icons), but the option needs to be set manually in the Ambient prefs file. I remember this from the pre-MorphOS 2.x days when Ambient and MUI4 betas were being released on a semi-regular basis - I think the possibility is still there.
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Yeah, I probably can come up with the solutions, but I too need to understand first what are the real causes. In many cases it just feels that it's the base attitude which is the problem, they just don't even try to get the system like they want before declaring the conclusion.
But it surely would be nice to hear some real details which are wanted to be different, or is it finally just other than concrete reasons why users decide which they prefer.
You could be right there.
And I also want to hear the details since I can't check for myself.
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TBH OS4 has come a long way regarding the visual aspect, especially compared to 7 years before or so. I don't know for example, why MorphOS comes with folders as icons instead of drawers since for every (returning) user, this is an alien concept. I had to replace most of them from tommysammy's excellent icon packs and I hope he makes some packs especially geared for MorphOS. Also, OS4 theme looks better at least to my eyes and more "amigish". Add a blue backdrop and you are set to go. Regarding the centralized (and organized) options menu I prefer it to the old one from 3.x that has continued to 4.x as well. Other than these, I am pretty sure that if you put "AmigaOS" instead of MorphOS on the screenbar, most people will have trouble identifying which OS they will be using (not in terms of functionality but as a first glance for its look and feel). I am also interested to know what other users are missing from OS4 (or even OS3) compared to MorphOS.
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I'd be surprised if many of the people "complaining" about the different look and feel even have an interest..... they've made a choice as to which one they like regardless of the products.
It's all about complaining and being convinced that the option a person has made is the right one, regardless of any sort of logic or facts when it comes to amiga/amiga-oid systems.
Make them identical and people will still find (or more accurately concoct) issue.
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I'd be surprised if many of the people "complaining" about the different look and feel even have an interest..... they've made a choice as to which one they like regardless of the products.
It's all about complaining and being convinced that the option a person has made is the right one, regardless of any sort of logic or facts when it comes to amiga/amiga-oid systems.
Make them identical and people will still find (or more accurately concoct) issue.
I run MorphOS 3.7 and OS4.x is visually more appealing out of the box. I like the default font also. What I also dont like is, when I'm running 1280x1024, you cant tell the difference between a lesser resolution. For example, on a REAL Amiga, I can run 640x480, then switch to a Cybergraphics card, then up to 1024x768 and BAM...much more real estate to put windows/icons etc. At this point, doesnt matter much, my G5 is in storage so I dont use MorphOS at the moment. (Well..buying a new house, so the G5 will come out of storage once I move).
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I like MorphOS, but hate that I'm unable to use my iBook with an external monitor. Using a tiny monitor is not fun, but back on topic. You can use dragon a tool to make MorphOS screen-drag. Its not perfect, but its better than nothing.
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Cant u make windows 8.1 look & feel like AmigaOS 4.1?
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Cant u make windows 8.1 look & feel like AmigaOS 4.1?
No, it's too different. Afterall, MorphOS and OS4 are like twins, just not identical twins :)
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I run MorphOS 3.7 and OS4.x is visually more appealing out of the box. .
Totally down to personal taste. I showed my friend (who's a Unix coder by trade and has no Amiga background) he thought morphos had a pretty nice UI but said OS4.1 "looks like a toy" and reminded him of Windows XP. So it's down to the individual.
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I run MorphOS 3.7 and OS4.x is visually more appealing out of the box.
It's really a matter of taste. I don't like the look of OS4 too much. In my book it looks rather non professional and a bit old. That said I don't like the default MorphOS skin (Ferox), too. But the clara skin is pretty neat IMHO: clean, modern and Amigaish.
Well, taste differs...
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I agree with the last posts, the matter is entirely one of taste.
Also, as I use multiple OS' I don't fuss too much over appearance.
So...even if I eventually obtain a copy of OS4, I'm not likely to spend much time trying to make MorphOS or OS4 look similar.
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mygod.. as if skin and look matters so much. the original workbench didnt look that great, and everybody messed with it on his own whether to make it look better or even worse. that should probably apply also today, the advantage of amiga was to be customizable, so mos and os4 shouldnt be restricted to some original look, people seem to insist upon.
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Totally down to personal taste. I showed my friend (who's a Unix coder by trade and has no Amiga background) he thought morphos had a pretty nice UI but said OS4.1 "looks like a toy" and reminded him of Windows XP. So it's down to the individual.
I was showcasing live MorphOS a couple of months ago and one guy (ex amigan but without any knowledge of the Amiga NG scene) gave a quick look on Ambient and approached me because he wanted to know more about this nice looking .. Linux distro :D
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You guys are right..to each his own. I myself am not impressed with the default look of MorphOS. But thats just looks and given enough time, you can make anything look good. I have other gripes but not worth pursuing since I have other hobbies that take more of my time.
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You guys are right! It's all down to taste. I myself have made some major changes in MorphOS to make it more appealing to me. So trying to do this would be a fools errand. If you want to change something in an Amiga, it might take some time to get it right but it's simple enough.
How do I rezise the image?
(http://safir.amigaos.se/bildgalleri/users2/15440_yasu_morphos_system_150308.jpg)
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Totally down to personal taste. I showed my friend (who's a Unix coder by trade and has no Amiga background) he thought morphos had a pretty nice UI but said OS4.1 "looks like a toy" and reminded him of Windows XP. So it's down to the individual.
I have gotten that reaction too. A friend of mine does UI design and said the same about both.
@ YASU
BTW Those are adapted Linux icons no?
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@ YASU
BTW Those are adapted Linux icons no?
Yes it is :) I've also made an "author approved" icon pack for MorphOS (it's PNG so it should work with AOS 4 and AROS. It contains some AOS 4 and AROS specific icons as well). You can download it here (http://morphos-files.net/download/BUFF-GANT_Icon_Set).
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Yasu
Thats really cool and good work, however I dont want to use linux icons if i m using a weird proprietary system I want weird original icons :)
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There is no such thing as "Linux icons", meh!
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Yasu
Thats really cool and good work, however I dont want to use linux icons if i m using a weird proprietary system I want weird original icons :)
Whatever rocks your boat :) I paid for the system so I'm changing it to look however I want ;)
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With OS4.1FE styled MUI settings (http://jpv.wmhost.com/morphos/os41feish/OS41FEish-MUI.lha) MorphOS can look like this:
(http://jpv.wmhost.com/morphos/os41feish/OS41FEish.png)
For comparison here's a similar screenshot of the real deal: OS41FE.png (http://jpv.wmhost.com/morphos/os41feish/OS41FE.png)
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@pVC
Very nice
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@pVC
you only need to get that boingball pic up in the corner with the workbench text now and then i think its done...
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so one can soon buy a new AmigONE X5000 from A-Eon and install MorphOS on it to look exactly like OS4.x:confused:
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so one can soon buy a new AmigONE X5000 from A-Eon and install MorphOS on it to look exactly like OS4.x:confused:
I know! Right! That surprised the h3ll outta me too! Or maybe even order it with MOS pre-installed from AmigaKit! :)