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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Chef on February 13, 2015, 04:33:58 PM
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Hello. I would like to try BBS for the first time, but I'm having issues installing NComm to my Amiga 500.
Specs:
A500 NTSC model
WB 1.3
512k chip + 512k slow trapdoor ram A501.
Floppy Drives: 1
I have a amiga explorer setup, where I have usb to rs232, and rs232 connected to null modem (serial port)
I would like to run a terminal program such as NComm. On the Windows side of things, I'm running BoycoT. I saw a youtube video of someone being able to boot from start up, but I'm having issues installing to floppy. I'll explain.
I have one working floppy drive. My external drive wont work, so I have to use the stock, built in floppy drive. When I run the software, I get an error stating: 'Cant open req tools library'. Is there an easier way to install? I've tried installing via the installer, but that doesn't work, or I'm unable to get it to work. I don't know what to do. How did you get NComm to work on a stock A500?
Thanks,
Dr. Chef.
Edited for clarity.
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Could you explain the RS232 serial to USB? Is this what you are using instead of a null modem cable?
Otherwise you need a full WorkBench disk with all the libraries and devices and the Ncom program; I never tried this off floppies as a hard drive was the easiest method for me with a complete WorkBench installation.
Also, the reqtool.library and installation program are from OS3.1, I believe.
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When I run the software, I get an error stating: 'Cant open req tools library'.
Have you installed reqtools.library?
http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/ReqToolsUsr.lha
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Also, does NComm work under 1.3? You're going to be pretty limited with that kind of setup.
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Could you explain the RS232 serial to USB? Is this what you are using instead of a null modem cable?
Otherwise you need a full WorkBench disk with all the libraries and devices and the Ncom program; I never tried this off floppies as a hard drive was the easiest method for me with a complete WorkBench installation.
Also, the reqtool.library and installation program are from OS3.1, I believe.
Thanks for the replies.
I'm using a null modem cable. That's what I meant. I'm using nullmodem to rs232 and rs232 to usb. There are versions of reqtool.library that could work with wb1.3 via NComm version 3.0 on Aminet. I cant install to my workbench floppy because its full, and I cant copy to libs for that same reason. I have amigaexplorer, so I can try any suggestions you guys have.
Is there a way to install ncomm to a seperate floppy and have it bootup at start up? I saw a youtube video where someone has a working NComm setup under wb1.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOreJxIZMpw
Is there a way to have a lightweight workbench, where I can boot directly into NComm?
Also, does NComm work under 1.3? You're going to be pretty limited with that kind of setup.
There is a older version that works for 1.3 and 2.0. Also, I'm unsure if this is true, but I read messages stating that the later version can run on 1.3.
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The version of Ncom I used worked in KS/OS 1.3, but as noted, I used it from a hard drive. With 1 floppy drive, you are not going to have anything but trouble; with enough RAM you can set up a RAD drive and load everything there making it perform like a hard drive.
At this point I would normally be sarcastic and glib, with a comment like, "Simply put, a 5 ounce sparrow cannot carry a 1 pound coconut," but this weeks threads have been about what one CAN do with an A500 -- an A500 AND money! So get out there and spend! Start with a replacement floppy for the one not working...
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Is there a way to install ncomm to a seperate floppy and have it bootup at start up? I saw a youtube video where someone has a working NComm setup under wb1.2
Is there a way to have a lightweight workbench, where I can boot directly into NComm?
Make a separate copy of your Workbench disk, delete any tools and utilities you don't need to free up space, copy NComm on there and the required libraries to make it run, then just edit the Startup-Sequence on that boot disk to be something like:
Setpatch
Run >NIL: NComm
Endcli
You might need to leave a little more of the factory Startup-Sequence than this (like LoadWB if you want a Workbench window open in the background), but that should give you an idea. ;)
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Also, +1 to what @danbeaver said. :)
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Or you can do that ; )
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Also run everything with as minimal settings as possible. Like if you can drop the screenmode down to 2 colors to conserve memory, do it. I know there's a small shell tool that works under 1.3 that will even cut the Workbench window down to 2 colors (since you can't select that with 1.3 preferences), something to consider if you want to keep a Workbench window open in the background behind NComm.
You can make this work! I have vague memories of going online 20-something years ago using a similar setup, only I had two floppy drives, and of course was using a dial-up modem at the time to connect to real BBS's. ;)
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Cool, I'll have to try that. So, if I do this all from WB 3.x from Amiga Forever, I'd be able to run with out a problem? Should I stick with version 3.0 or should 3.6 work with the earlier version of NComm?
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Cool, I'll have to try that. So, if I do this all from WB 3.x from Amiga Forever, I'd be able to run with out a problem? Should I stick with version 3.0 or should 3.6 work with the earlier version of NComm?
If you run this through emulation you can emulate a much more powerful system, so yes, you'd have fewer problems. But there's something nostalgic and quaint about getting it working on a classic A500. :)
Not sure what you mean by 3.6, is that a version of NComm? Or do you mean Workbench 3.9?
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There are 2 versions on Aminet. 3.0 and 3.6. 3.6 is free and comes with a keyfile so you can use the full version.
You can make this work! I have vague memories of going online 20-something years ago using a similar setup, only I had two floppy drives, and of course was using a dial-up modem at the time to connect to real BBS's. ;)
Yeah, I'm using a modem emulator on my PC, but for my first time to play on a BBS will be a treat.
Or you can do that ; )
Eventually, when I get the money, I might upgrade my Amiga so I can have a Gotek and a hard drive. Using a single floppy drive and swapping floppies is defiantly not fun.
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Make a separate copy of your Workbench disk, delete any tools and utilities you don't need to free up space, copy NComm on there and the required libraries to make it run, ...
+1. That really is the way many of us started. If you are going to be a floppy only operation for a while, you really should make a vastly trimmed down version of the WB disk as a standard you can duplicate as required for all of your favorite apps.
If you add FAST ram (upto 8 Megs. See Kipper2K's offerings), a system like yours really starts to feel more spacious after booting (easily the slowest part of using the system). With a spacious Ram Disk:, you can de-archive there, execute them there, and only if you like them - commit them to permanent floppy.
A RAD: drive becomes possible and makes the system even more livable (much faster than a HD) after the first boot. Sadly, I suspect this option gets explored by very few people.
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Okay, I'm lost. I was able to delete the different applications that came bundled with Workbench that I didn't need, to free up to a little more than 100KB's, but how do I install directly to wb1.3?
I have reqtools in libs. Now what? I tried copying ncomm to ram: and then running the installer. Basically, I typed in install df0:, but nothing happens, or nothing I'm aware of. If I try to install with version 3.0, the earlier version, I get errors while the installer attempts to install. If I run version 3.6 in ram, with out installing, it loads, but I cant connect to serial.device.
Edit: If I try to copy Ncomm, installer and all, then I don't believe I'll have enough space to copy everything.
If you add FAST ram (upto 8 Megs. See Kipper2K's offerings), a system like yours really starts to feel more spacious after booting (easily the slowest part of using the system). With a spacious Ram Disk:, you can de-archive there, execute them there, and only if you like them - commit them to permanent floppy.
That seems like a nice option, plus the price very reasonable.
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If you add FAST ram (upto 8 Megs. See Kipper2K's offerings), a system like yours really starts to feel more spacious after booting (easily the slowest part of using the system). With a spacious Ram Disk:, you can de-archive there, execute them there, and only if you like them - commit them to permanent floppy.
That seems like a nice option, plus the price very reasonable.
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Just took a quick look at this version:
http://aminet.net/package/comm/term/ncomm306
It doesn't look like it needs to be "installed", not like a modern program, anyway. Just copy the contents of the fonts directory into SYS:Fonts (your Workbench/Fonts directory), and the NComm file itself to anywhere on the disk. I'm not sure what the "NCommToChipPatch" is, but it looks like it has a .doc that you could read to see if it's something you need. ;)
So in other words, just put the NComm file itself on your new boot disk that you're making (along with the fonts, of course).
It looks like you'll need to free up 223KB for that to work.
Contents of comm/term/ncomm306.lha
PERMSSN UID GID PACKED SIZE RATIO CRC STAMP NAME
---------- ----------- ------- ------- ------ ---------- ------------ -------------
[generic] 1016 1836 55.3% -lh5- 0d6c Feb 19 1996 chippatch/NCommToChipPatch
[generic] 1235 2385 51.8% -lh5- 605d Feb 18 1996 chippatch/NCommToChipPatch.doc
[generic] 1002 1788 56.0% -lh5- e330 Mar 18 1995 chippatch/src/NCommToChipPatch
[generic] 1287 2906 44.3% -lh5- d6d5 Feb 19 1996 chippatch/src/NCommToChipPatch.c
[generic] 104 104 100.0% -lh0- caae May 13 1993 chippatch/src/SPrintf.o
[generic] 26 264 9.8% -lh5- 7c94 Jan 14 1996 fonts/NComm1.font
[generic] 1431 2616 54.7% -lh5- 6edd Jan 14 1996 fonts/ncomm1/8
[generic] 41 524 7.8% -lh5- 3d97 Jan 14 1996 fonts/NComm2.font
[generic] 353 1352 26.1% -lh5- 38f7 Jan 14 1996 fonts/ncomm2/8
[generic] 157 241 65.1% -lh5- 2688 Jan 14 1996 Install
[generic] 222 810 27.4% -lh5- 205b Jan 14 1996 Install.info
[generic] 114798 222928 51.5% -lh5- ade8 Feb 26 1996 NComm
[generic] 388 835 46.5% -lh5- 0055 Jan 14 1996 NComm.info
[generic] 6161 14540 42.4% -lh5- 71dd Feb 25 1996 NComm.news
[generic] 298 813 36.7% -lh5- dc94 Jan 14 1996 NComm.news.info
[generic] 1690 5022 33.7% -lh5- af62 Jan 14 1996 Register.doc
[generic] 302 813 37.1% -lh5- 11c2 Jan 14 1996 Register.doc.info
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Yeah, I was right. The "Install" file is just a script that copies those fonts for you, if you can't do it yourself. ;)
[FONT="]echo "This script will install the new NComm fonts in fonts:"
failat 100
copy >nil: fonts/#? fonts: ALL ;Reset machine to flush fonts
echo "All done. You should now reset your machine"
endcli ;Needed for XIcon
[/FONT]
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Commodore didn't have a legitimate "Installer" application until Workbench 2.1, if I recall correctly (might've been 2.04). Prior to that people would just sort of "wing it", with IconX scripts and whatnot. I feel like I want to be a smartass and say "we were all a lot more computer savvy, back in the day". You actually had to know what all these files were, how to copy them manually, and whatnot. None of this fancy self-installing stuff. Now you kids get off my lawn! :lol:
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I can install the fonts my self. Right now, I'm attempting to delete as much as I can to get over 200KB, but I'm finding that a little difficult, because I don't know what is required by the system or not. I could probably delete shell commands that I know that I wont be using. I've deleted all the utilities besides Cmd.
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I can install the fonts my self. Right now, I'm attempting to delete as much as I can to get over 200KB, but I'm finding that a little difficult, because I don't know what is required by the system or not. I could probably delete shell commands that I know that I wont be using.
Correct. :) Also fonts are a good target. And the Workbench preferences program itself, if you won't be changing any preferences (I think that's about 50K). You can always run that off a separate disk later, if you need to.
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Correct. :) Also fonts are a good target. And the Workbench preferences program itself, if you won't be changing any preferences (I think that's about 50K). You can always run that off a separate disk later, if you need to.
Yeah, I have multiple workbench floppies, so I can copy if I require anything.
Thanks for your help. You guys have been very helpful.
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Good news. I was able to delete the larger fonts and now I have 244KB available. Now, I'll attempt to install, and whatnot, via click and drag.
Looking at NCommToChipPatch, it looks like a patch for A4000's or something, so I'll hold off on using that.
Now we are getting somewhere. I 'installed' everything, except the NCommToChopPatch, but I'm getting a new error: 'load ncomm: file is not an object module.
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...I was able to delete the different applications that came bundled with Workbench that I didn't need, to free up to a little more than 100KB's...
The following are files that can usually be deleted from a copy of Workbench 1.3 to make a customized bootable disk for other applications. I'm sure no one needs to be reminded to NOT modify the original!
from C:
Avail, Break, Changetaskpri, Diskchange, Diskdoctory, Edit (you might keep Ed), Else, Endif, Endskip, Eval, Failat, Fault, FF, Filenote, Getenv, IconX, If, join, Lab, Lock, Protect, Quit, Relabel, Remrad, Rename, Resident, Search, Setlock, Setdate, setenv, setpatch, skip, sort, stack, status, wait, which, why. These are mostly used in scripts.
from Devs: clipboard.devise, narrator.devise,
from Fonts: Everything. Keep the empty directory for App specific fonts to be added.
from L:
Aux-handler, FastFileSystem, Pipe-handler. Speak-handler
from Libs: the math libraries if the app doesn't need them, translator.library
from Prefs: CoipyPrefs, Prefs (with the proviso from Mike, above)
from S:
Dpat, PCD, Spat, Startup-Sequence.HD, StartupII,
from System:
Fastmemfirst, Fixfonts, Initprinter, Mergemem, NoFastMem
from Utilities: Everything with the possible except of More, in case you want to read the app's documentation.
Some programs like astronomy, rendering, calculators, etc might need the math libraries. I hope this helps.
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I forgot to mention, many floppy drives can be brought bake to life with a little cleaning (gentle!, use a cleaning disk) and lubrication.
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Now we are getting somewhere. I 'installed' everything, except the NCommToChopPatch, but I'm getting a new error: 'load ncomm: file is not an object module.
Found the problem, the file wasn't fully copied, so I deleted the news file since there is no need for it.
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The software is running, but I cant connect. If I try dialing to a BBS such as 'bbs.at2k.org', it will attempt to connect, but I get an error stating 'modem not responding'. Its a issue on the windows side of things.
I decided to give tcpser a go because the other thing I was using didn't work.
I have a batch file created, but when I load it, it attempts to connect, but it then disconnects.
This is the command I used. I followed a youtube video and copied their commands, but switched with my own com port to 5(S4).
tcpser -d /dev/ttyS4 -s 19200 -p 23 -l 4
If I try using Boycott with Handshake XonXoff, it doesn't actually connect. If I change it to RTS like on my Amiga side, it wont work, but actually gives me an error stating 'RtsEnable cannot be accessed if Handshake is set to RequestToSend or RequestToSendXOnXOff.'.
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I can ran the software, but when I attempt to connect to a server, I get errors on BoycoT
2/14/2015 11:02 AM - Loading Character Code Translations
2/14/2015 11:02 AM - Opening COM5,19200,8,None,1,XOnXOff
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - ModemCommandString = ? ? ??? ????? ATDTBBS.AT2K.ORG
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - Modem Error Code = 4
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - ModemCommandString = CSDADAXZAZCZXV
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - Modem Error Code = 4
Sometimes I can connect, then I get an error code 1.
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I can ran the software, but when I attempt to connect to a server, I get errors on BoycoT
2/14/2015 11:02 AM - Loading Character Code Translations
2/14/2015 11:02 AM - Opening COM5,19200,8,None,1,XOnXOff
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - ModemCommandString = ? ? ??? ????? ATDTBBS.AT2K.ORG
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - Modem Error Code = 4
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - ModemCommandString = CSDADAXZAZCZXV
2/14/2015 11:04 AM - Modem Error Code = 4
Sometimes I can connect, then I get an error code 1.
Would you confirm your signal path again. Amiga to Null-modem to serial2USB converter to Windows laptop running BoycoT? Did you construct the Null-modem cable youself?
It's been a very long time since I've used Ncomm or a null-modem cable. Shooting from the hip, I'm guessing that BoycoT (Terminal program on the other platform?) is expecting a real modem at the end of your USB2serial converter. Isn't there a Null Modem option in BoycoT when connecting? It seems that there was one in Ncomm.
Have you successfully used this USB-to-serial converter in the past?
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The modem commands are not needed. Unsure of your BoycoT program though, as i just open the terminal in Windows (using a Win98 laptop from 2000) to communicate with my X1000's serial port over a Laplink serial (null) cable.
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Sorry for the late replies. Thanks for being patient and helpful.
Would you confirm your signal path again. Amiga to Null-modem to serial2USB converter to Windows laptop running BoycoT? Did you construct the Null-modem cable youself?
I can confirm the cable works. I use it with Amiga Forever (Software to connect an Amiga to Windows for copying files to floppy or Ram, etc.). I didn't make the cables, but I bought them off the internet. When I use BoycoT, I adjust the settings so they match the same on my Amiga. On NComm, you can adjust baud rate, handshake, etc. When I change the handshake settings on both software to none, I can attempt to connect, but I get Modem Error 1 on BoycoT
It's been a very long time since I've used Ncomm or a null-modem cable. Shooting from the hip, I'm guessing that BoycoT (Terminal program on the other platform?) is expecting a real modem at the end of your USB2serial converter. Isn't there a Null Modem option in BoycoT when connecting? It seems that there was one in Ncomm.
Have you successfully used this USB-to-serial converter in the past?
BoycoT is a modem emulator, it is supposed to work in a way where your retro computer will think its a modem. For example: Connecting a C64 to your PC running BoycoT instead of a real modem. My setup is this: Amiga side: NComm terminal emulator. Windows: BoycoT modem emulator.
The modem commands are not needed. Unsure of your BoycoT program though, as i just open the terminal in Windows (using a Win98 laptop from 2000) to communicate with my X1000's serial port over a Laplink serial (null) cable.
How were you able to achieve this with Command Prompt? I don't want to communicate back in forth like Amiga Explorer, I just want to connect to my PC where my Amiga think its a modem, with using modem emulation, so I can play with BBS servers on my Amiga. If there is another way to achieve this, then that would be great, but I don't know what to do.
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Again, I have no idea what BoycoT does, I just used HyperTerminal in Win 98. Did you try Putty or HyperTerminal Private Edition?
I mean it makes no sense to me to pretend to open a modem connection (that uses the analog phone lines) to send digital data directly over a digital serial connection; you don't need to modulate-demodulate anything.
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Hurray. I was able to connect via TCPSER and following a guide already on Amiga.org. I changed my settings to 'tcpser.exe -d /dev/ttyS4 -s 19200 -l5'
I'm on At2k. Thanks for your help guys.
Edit: I'm getting a tiny bit of graphical problems such as some possibl ascii characters not displaying properly, but I might be wrong. For example when I was creating a account it showed "Your nickname zz yournamehere. Also, the main menu name looks a bit different, but it could just we the BBS, but I'm not sure.
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A image of it working. Sorry, I was using a garbage camera on my tablet.
http://i.imgur.com/DEcs2Xq.jpg
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:banana: :banana: :banana:
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Oh boy door games. I believe my dad used to talk about them.
Edit: Fixed the graphics problem. I had to change a setting.
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I'm glad you got them talking. The image, while blurry, was nostalgic for me. ;) I first acquired Ncomm from a BBS as a solution to see PC-style ansi graphics for playing Tradewars. Ncomm required an ANSI font to do that. Prior to that, I had been running the Amiga terminal program Access! Just before BBSes went extint, a new graphics protocol came out that was much superior. IIRC, the Amiga program was called RipTerm.
In my area, there was easily more than a dozen free local BBSes. Most were Dos based, but many had Amiga sections with software. There were even a few based on Apple products. It was really cool connecting for the first time and seeing the possibilty to exchange files and info. :)
Have you search the keywords "BBS" and "Terminal" on Aminet? :)