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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: 8bitugy1 on February 08, 2015, 01:35:16 AM
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I just acquired an Amiga 2000 and I want to do some upgrades, I have a few questions. If folks could provide links to websites with answers (I've googled all this, with little luck)....that be great. Or you can just answer...
1) The machine has a GVP SCSI Card in it. I want to add a CDROM. Can I do that internally?
2) It also has a GVP A3001 Series II card. (very nice). This has an IDE 40 Header on it. Can I use this with a Compact Flash drive (with an adapter?). I am missing the IDE Rom, anywhere I can get that?
3) What is the easiest way to transfer files from my PC to this device?
Any other; in general tips; for a returning fan? (The machine also has a scandoubler, flicker fixer fitted and two current SCSI drives one of which is defective, the other is only 20 MB).
Thanks in advance.
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1 - Yes. Look for a SCSI CD drive on ebay. A year or two back there were tons of them, I got one for $2.99 that I still use today on one of my systems. Search for old Mac drives, or other systems that had SCSI interfaces as standard. Your mileage may vary. Also be prepared to learn about SCSI termination. For starters (assuming you have a hard drive as well) you'll probably want to do something like this:
GVP card ==> Internal hard drive ==> CD drive ==> termination. You might be able to get away with just a termination jumper on the CD drive. Or you might need a "real" one. I'd try that sequence first.
You should update this card to it's latest ROM's. Either 4.15 or a Guru ROM, if you can find one.
2 - According to this site: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a3001 the optional IDE controller doesn't support drives with more than 1024 cylinders. This might be useless with a modern CF adapter and card of any reasonable size. You can look for a SCSI-to-IDE bridge to add a CF, or one of the Kipper2K adapters, or a SCSI card reader, etc. Good news is, there's lots of other ways of adding a CF. :)
3 - Once you add the CD drive, just burn your files to a CD and read them back on the Amiga. Easy-peasy. This is what I did before I added other methods to my system (like USB and a FAT-formatted SD card, etc.). You can also rig up a variety of serial & parallel links, assuming you have an older-ish PC that still has either a serial or parallel port. ;)
A2000's are great, loads of options, I love mine! (see sig, I built it up to this from scratch) Have fun! :)
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Yes, Mike is correct. Adding a CDROM (or DVD-ROM) is a great way of starting, plus up your HDD size (20 MB is tiny). THe GVP 3001 IDE is worthless these days as you will never find one of the two drives that fit it.
I might suggest trying to score a Buddha Phoenix Card (http://www.vesalia.de/e_buddha.htm) which adds a good quality IDE and clock-port. The Scan doubler is great and the GVP accelerator is nice IF it already has the special GVP RAM with it.
I love the A2000's durability, expansion capabilities, and ease of work-on ability.
Enjoy!
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It does sound great. The accelerator card has 8 Meg of Ram on it. Plus the machine has 2 MB of Chipram. I don't need to get on the internet or anything, is likely to be enough Ram for normal use (seems more than adequate for gaming). The SCSI card has a spot for ram on it as well, if I fill it, will it conflict with the other ram or will I get to use it too?
That buddha card seems not to be available?? I couldn't find a way to add it to my cart. It does seem like the easiest solution....
Anyway, I had a basic Amiga 2000 long ago and this one is just so much cooler.... and I love doing the research....
Thank you both for the tips so far... The gentleman I bought it off of has asked me to transfer some files off it (if I can), so I guess the easiest way will be a CD-R...
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If the ram on the accelerator card maps into 32-bit address space, then you'll be fine to add more to the hard card (which would map into 16-bit address space), but you'll want to check to confirm this, some early accelerators did things a bit "weird". Also it looks like there's a couple different ram board options for the A3001. RAM8 or RAM32. A tool like SysInfo should be helpful to confirm this, also check the jumper settings and compare them to that site I linked to earlier.
8/2MB of memory should be fine for casual use. Obviously you'll want more if you intend to go online, or do graphic-intensive tasks, 3D modeling, etc. It's plenty to get you started though. ;)
Buddha is like hen's teeth. If you decide you want one keep a close eye on ebay, Amibay, etc. Maybe try posting a "wanted" ad? I just checked AmigaKit, Vesalia, and AmigaStore.eu real quick, and none of them had it listed. Maybe email AmigaKit, as well?
What version of Workbench is your system running? If 3.1 you should be able to burn CD's (with the appropriate CD-burning software) once you add the drive. If something old like 1.3, not so much. ;)
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I'm not sure how to tell what space the RAM maps into...but I'll see if I can figure that out. It's definitely the RAM 8 card.
As for workbench It came with 2.04, but I already have an upgraded ROM for it, to 3.1. (bought it by mistake a few years ago....), I'll keep an eye open for a buddha, but I'm not gonna hold my breath, I may have to go the SCSI>>IDE>>CF Route. (though I'm not a fan of the price of SCSI to IDE bridges on Ebay).
I found a SCSI CDRW on ebay that matches MakeCD's approved list, so I sprung for that....though I'm sure there is other software, this way I'll know it works.
It also came with a Magni Systems Video Graphics Encoder and a Frame Grabber....I probably won't use either of those, but I think they are neat
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The Buddhas were is stock (NOS) at Amigakit about a year ago and kinda got snapped up, but if you look, they do pop up for sale. Another way to transfer files is via ParNet or SerNet with the Amiga Forever disk (CD) or get a network card for FTP transfers. The GVP SCSI Card RAM will add into your 8 MB 16-bit memory space, and with the 68030 you are pretty set. A network card will set you back about $100 USD if you are interested.
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Great stuff Mike and Dan!
If you are going to upgrade to OS3.1 and install a new drive anyway, consider Gulliver's "BetterWB". He has compiled a package of many of the best OS updates without penalizing system performance. You can tell I'm a fan. ;) The trick is to install immediately after the new OS (before you and SW installers alter the OS).
More info can be found here: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm
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It looks very interesting. The only trick is I have to get the data off the current drives before I replace or wipe them. But when I do the wipe...that looks great...thanks!!!
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Right after you format a new drive (on the connector of the dead one), make a directory (like "Old") and copy all the 20 MB files to it; then you can reuse that connector for the SCSI drive (if the cable is long enough). Longer cables can be found at Amigakit.
Here are some example links:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PLEXTOR-PX-12TSI-SCSI-CD-DRIVE-50-PIN-/171647782928?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7015010
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPAQ-2-1GB-Hard-Drive-9B0003-021-SCSI-2-199641-001-/380290781008?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588b18cf50
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_68&products_id=443
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Well, at this point is it worth getting a replacement SCSI?...what is the lifetime expectation for 80's vintage SCSI drives? My thought was it would be better to get a CF drive... Though those bridge boards that support IDE Hard Drives are expensive. Plus I could then relocate the CF to a panel on the back of the machine to have easy access to it....?
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Well, at this point is it worth getting a replacement SCSI?...what is the lifetime expectation for 80's vintage SCSI drives? My thought was it would be better to get a CF drive... Though those bridge boards that support IDE Hard Drives are expensive. Plus I could then relocate the CF to a panel on the back of the machine to have easy access to it....?
I still have SCSIs HDs running in most of my systems. I'm fond of Quantum drives that are less than 4 GB and they are easy to setup.
EDIT: Ok, I finished dinner. SCSI drives made in the late 90s are in the range of 2 to 4 Gigs. If installed in a hobby system that is not left ON 24/7, I would think some of them have a great deal of life left. If you are concerned, buy several. Connect the spare periodically and backup to it. I wouldn't leave the spare connected full-time (I learned that the hard way!).
Another means of file transfer between other platforms and Amigas is Zip drives. They can be found for cheap on eBay with all the different interfaces: SCSI, IDE, and USB. Food for thought.
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Good point about the Zip drives, an often overlooked but still very valid method of storing files for older computers. :)
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Well, at this point is it worth getting a replacement SCSI?...what is the lifetime expectation for 80's vintage SCSI drives? My thought was it would be better to get a CF drive... Though those bridge boards that support IDE Hard Drives are expensive. Plus I could then relocate the CF to a panel on the back of the machine to have easy access to it....?
The SCSI drives now flooding sites like eBay are being pulled from servers and are backwardly compatible with SCSI-1 & 2; being from servers they are the ones meant to last, need only a $5 buck adapter, and are fast and quiet. Getting from SCSI to IDE is viable with a $100+ USD adapter (http://www.vesalia.de/e_acard.htm <--Pricey; http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060778.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XIDE+to+SCSI+adapter&_nkw=IDE+to+SCSI+adapter&_sacat=0).
These allow an IDE device such as a CF card reader on the bus. I prefer (Maxtor) Atlas SCSI drives myself, but have tried them all over time.
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need only a $5 buck adapter
Hi Dan, can you clarify on this "$5 adapter"? You mean the 50-to-68 pin adapter to use the newer 68-pin drives? Or a 50-to-80 pin? I've tried occasionally looking for straight 50-pin SCSI drives that would plug in directly, and come up nearly empty in my searches. Not that I care much because I mostly use CF, but you know... ;)
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Well coming from China both the 50-to-68 and 50-to-80 adapters run around $5 bucks; the 80-pin drives have a simple PCB that allows connection of an LED, a few settings and Easy to set ID number. THe 68-pin drives can be connected with an off center plastic cheapo connector, but don't line up for a "hard card" or tight 3.5" bay.
My preference for SCSI hard drives comes from my use on my CSPPC SCSI-3 bus where the conversion to IDE (for a CF card or SSD) takes a performance hit. On the GVP, the SCSI bus will be saturated with any SCSI-2 drive, SSD CF card, SD card, and tightly wound rubber band.
Reference:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Computer-80-Pin-To-SCSI-68-Pin-IDC-50-Pin-Adapter-SP-/181623860938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a49a02eca
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-68Pin-68-Pin-Male-to-50Pin-50-Pin-Male-Adapter-Converter-m-m-/151270902545?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233872cb11
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Okay, I've been doing some more reading and I think I get the following, just posting here to confirm:
If I get additional ram for the GVP SCSI Card it should work in the 16bit space because the 68030 processor is 32 bit and the ram on the accelerator card is in the 32 bit space?
In terms of pulling the data off, I should use the CD-RW (will 2.04 allow me to write to a cd?, if not and I upgrade to 3.x will that wipe the hard drive?) alternatively, I could add a network card and pull the data off that way... (again will that work with 2.04?, seems network stacks REQUIRE 3.x)?
Last, I could hook up a new SCSI device (Hard drive) as drive 3, pull the data off, then update the system and pull the data off a 3.x system to get the files to the CD-RW?
Has that made sense?
Thanks again....
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1 - Yes, assuming the ram on the accelerator is in the 32-bit space. Read that link on the RAM8 board again. I think you need to set a jumper.
2 - I don't know if the CD-burning software works under 2.04, I've only used it under 3.1/3.9. I think it was @tenacious who suggested earlier - install the new OS on a new drive, plug in the old drive as a slave (or configured "further down in the chain", since we're talking SCSI) to copy the data over, then once your transfer is complete you can unplug the old drive to keep it as a spare. :)
IMHO "all the good stuff" requires 3.1. I'd go ahead and do the upgrade. ;)
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I would just upgrade to KS 3.1 ROM; it is cheap, quick, and an easy upgrade adding updated devices and OS "hooks" for more modern software (that runs on old hardware).
Cheap: $16.57 at http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=157
Quick: remove the case and PSU to access the ROM
Easy: 1) Pull old ROM (carefully), 2) Push in new ROM (carefully)
Then decide on your overall plan: do you want to change storage (CF card via IDE, SCSI HDD, CD-R/W), access the greater intra vs internet, and/or update your software (OS, CD writing, Browser).
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Okay, so here is where I'm stuck.... (thanks for all the help thus far....).
I put in a CDR and got that working, backed up all the data I needed backed up. Then I took out the old SCSI Hard Drive and put in the new one I acquired (2.1GB). Partitioned it. Formatted it. Installed 3.1 on it. No issues. However when I went to install AsimCDFS, the CDR which worked on the old drive is no longer visible in the SCSI chain. (At least not to the SCSI inquire tool that comes with AsimCDFS). I checked what I thought were the obvious suspects.... they are not on the same SCSI ID and the new Hard Disk does not have the terminator jumper enabled. So I'm stuck. I didn't change any of the settings on the CDR. Maybe there are drivers for the SCSI card? or some such?
Any help would be appreciated....
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I personally have only used AsimCDFS on a multi-disk CD changer as the software is a bit strange. IDEFix software will set up drives on any bus for which there is a device driver and once it generates a mountlist entry, you can pick the CD file system you desire. The Find tool in IDEFix is very robust. Mind you, I only have ever written to CD/DVD's under OS4.1, and OS3.X.
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IDEFix couldn't find the device either. I've set the card up wrong, missed a driver somewhere (though I thought it was automatic) or something....It's like the CDR is simply not on the scsi chain anymore....
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The drive I installed was this one: http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85256AB8006A31E587256A7D005AB09E/$file/dors_ps.pdf
Any SCSI expert know any reason it wouldn't play nice on the SCSI Bus?
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So it worked with the CDR by itself, but not with the CDR and 2.1 GB HDD? What are the drive ID numbers? What does the bus look? Is the last drive terminated? Active or passive?
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The CDR worked with the previous hard drive and it continues to do so....I just finished checking again...to be sure the drive hadn't become damaged.
The CDR and the 2.1 GB HD don't play together. the CDR is SCSI ID 3, the HD is SCSI ID 0. The BUS is terminated, the CDR is the last in the chain and it's terminate Jumper is set. (which works with the other drive). I'm not sure what Active or Passive means, but I'm guess it means without a terminator at the end of the cable? and just using the drives jumper to terminate?
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The CDR worked with the previous hard drive and it continues to do so....I just finished checking again...to be sure the drive hadn't become damaged.
The CDR and the 2.1 GB HD don't play together. the CDR is SCSI ID 3, the HD is SCSI ID 0. The BUS is terminated, the CDR is the last in the chain and it's terminate Jumper is set. (which works with the other drive). I'm not sure what Active or Passive means, but I'm guess it means without a terminator at the end of the cable? and just using the drives jumper to terminate?
If you are using the new HD with a fresh install of OS3.1, could the stock CD0: icon in devs: be specifying SCSI.device (I think this is the default for OS3.1) instead of GVPSCSI.device? You are using a GVP SCSI controller, right? Which is used on the old HD for the CDrom drive?
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If you are using the new HD with a fresh install of OS3.1, could the stock CD0: icon in devs: be specifying SCSI.device (I think this is the default for OS3.1) instead of GVPSCSI.device? You are using a GVP SCSI controller, right? Which is used on the old HD for the CDrom drive?
That is probably it. On 3.1 you have to change it in the actual CD0 device file yeah? Not in the tooltype for the icon information like on 3.5+
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The Find program would have scanned the device bus and located the drive regardless of the mountlist. Could the HHD be terminated and blocking the CDROM from responding?
An Active terminator uses electrical circuits to dampen the bus signal, while a passive terminator simply uses resistors to do this. On old, slow equipment the passive usually works; on faster buses and drives (SCSI-3 and a SCSI-2 bus like the A4091's) active is required to keep the signal usefull.
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This is what I thought, but I've triple checked the terminator jumper on the HHD and then I tried it with the jumper on anyway in case, somehow, the manual for the drive was wrong. But in either scenario it doesn't work.
I'm very puzzled. I think the last thing left is to go and get a terminator (no idea where I could source one locally, I'll probably have to go online).
In reference to the CD0 Icon. Yes I've changed that as well. No difference.
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That is probably it. On 3.1 you have to change it in the actual CD0 device file yeah? Not in the tooltype for the icon information like on 3.5+
Yes, you will probably have to use a text editor to change the Device = SCSI.device parameter, if this is the problem. Double checking the same file on your old HD with OS2.1 should remove doubt.
EDIT: oops, you've already done this. :) Wait, you've read the text in both files (not the icon info) of both HDs and they both use the same device?
I've used AsimCDfilesystem in the past. It's good AND it handles long file names well (part of its charm). It also installs a lot of bloat! I mentioned BetterWB many post ago. It also is supposed to come with a CD files system (and a CD player, etc) that can read PC-style long file names. I haven't confirmed this yet, but, it sure looks like a much cleaner installation and solution.
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I downloaded BetterWB and installed it. I do like it. It doesn't find the CDR either.
It's definitely a hardware issue at this point. I've ordered the terminator, we will wait and see.
For the next step in this project....I'm going to focus on getting the X-surf 100 I just got installed and going. I'm hoping that's easier....though it doesn't seem to come with much in the way of instructions....anyone got a link to a good online guide for this?....
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I'm sorry, Ive edited post #30 and you're responding fast :). You did confirm the text, not the icon?
It doesn't make sense that you have a hardware problem if the old HD and CDrom work together but not the new HD and CDrom.
OTOH, did you ever mention what version of ROM is installed on your GVP SCSI interface? Maybe it's old and marginal with a 2.1 Gig HD.
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I did change the text yes.
The only thing I can think with the hardware is the following (Just a theory).
The newer HD (2.1GB) requires an active terminator for anything to show up after it in the SCSI chain. I suppose I could try to go to the CDR first with the cable and then to the HD and use its terminator setting, but that presents case logistics issues.
I've tried a few different bus scanners and none of them pick up the CDR, which they all did BEFORE any software changes were made with the old HD.
I'm still open to theories....and growing a little frustrated. :(
But I have the network card and rapid road to keep me busy on this project well I troubleshoot the CDR and the terminator issue....
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Oh... and on the GVP card it is an older version of the rom (but it worked before!!!) I am have a friend burn a new rom for me with the latest one though....
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Oh... and on the GVP card it is an older version of the rom (but it worked before!!!) I am have a friend burn a new rom for me with the latest one though....
Ok, my money is now on the old GVP ROM. It seems there were some docs on the net about the versions and their shortcomings of the older ROMS. However, I think you have a great idea about swapping the 2 Gig HD to the end of the internal SCSI chain, if only temporarily for testing.
Congrats on increasing your HD space by a thousand times. ;)
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Just for the sake of closing the loop on this. I received the updated ROM and installed it on the SCSI card and voila! I have access to the CD-ROM.
The previous ROM was version 3.07, updated to 4.15 (from Amiga Resource) and I'm good.
I'm still waiting for the active terminators to arrive by mail-order but since everything is working...I guess there is no reason to use one now. Unless there is some other benefit I'm unaware of...
I would like to thank the good help I received from everyone here at Amiga.org.
Specs at time of purchase:
A2000 with 2.04 Rom
A2320 ScanDoubler
68030 50Hz, 2 MB Chip, 10MB Total. Leaky Battery.
20MB SCSI DH0:, 800MB SCSI DH1:(with bad sectors galore)
Now:
A2000 with 3.1 Rom
A2320 ScanDoubler
68030 50 Hz, 2MB Chip, 10MB Total. Coin Battery
2.1 GB SCSI Drive, updated GVP SCSI Rom to 4.15 (Latest)
Yamaha CD-R, Xsurf 100, RapidRoad USB, Both Floppy and Floppy Emulator installed
Time to have some fun.....