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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: apsturk on December 21, 2014, 03:25:10 AM
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What is the best Graphics card for 2D & 3D. Now that 4.1FE is out and the new Radeon drivers are two. I have noticed the Radeon card AmigaKit has in stock for the X1000 are long outdated (in the PC world) and quite weak in terms of performance. Thanks a bunch :)
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There are different ideas of what's "best".. for some it's raw power, some are more interested in running quiet, maybe even fanless.. Some must stay with a single slot, others can spare the space for a double-wide card.. Many things you could use to help decide.
Ther's a guy in the Netherlands who seems to know a little bit about RadeonHD on OS4, and he was kind enough to put a webpage together to answer your question.
http://www.hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/radeonhd-driver/radeonhd-card-recommendations-for-amigaos-4-x/
I see that page was last updated just a few weeks ago, so the information should be pretty fresh.
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Thank you Lyle! yes I have checked his page out and I like the "Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3G GDDR5 OC Version (11221-00-25G)". It looks like the baddest card he has on his list. I hope it will fit in the AmigaOne X1000 (its a big card with the cooler). I am sure after people get there hand on AOS4.1FE & the new HD driver, we will see what people think. I may just buy the card and see what happens :) thanks for your advice!!
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Ther's a guy in the Netherlands who seems to know a little bit about RadeonHD on OS4, and he was kind enough to put a webpage together to answer your question.
New Zealand ;-)
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What is the best Graphics card for 2D & 3D. Now that 4.1FE is out and the new Radeon drivers are two. I have noticed the Radeon card AmigaKit has in stock for the X1000 are long outdated (in the PC world) and quite weak in terms of performance. Thanks a bunch :)
There's still no 3D drivers for anything beyond R200 series GPU i.e. Radeon 9000/9200 etc. Best wait for the Warp3D driver package is released and see what cards are supported by that (5000/6000 series mentioned so far) before splashing out on the most powerful card you can find.
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I've tried two of the more advanced cards out there and they both caused issues (even with the new driver) with proper reboots and odd crashes and I'm back using my original graphic card it shipped with, until there arises software that utilizes the "bad-ass" features of the newer cards.
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3D to my knowledge is not available on any modern cards.... couple few users have a 9250 in their X1000. They use some adapter that allows it to work. I myself am not worried much about 3D at this point and one day it will come. I am though adding a 2nd video card to my X1000 soon. It will use the stock Radeon HD 4650 and now a new R9 270 since the new Radeon driver supports it. I am gambling that one day Warp3D that A-Eon appears to be working on will support one of the two cards I have. If not, will buy a new card as needed. But today I think the R9 270 offers the most bang for the buck for Radeon 2.4 X1000 users. Can't wait for my 4.1FE to arrive so I can get both cards in the X1000. TJ
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You don't need an adapter for a Radeon 9200/9250 PCI card unless ypu desire to use the smaller PCIe slot (in which case, be prepared to spend $12 USD!!). Be aware that the X1000 defaults to that card for things you will wish it didn't (unless the new driver negates that issue); that is why I use just the one card.
P.S., until there is a "Bang," I won't spend the "buck."
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Dan, here's why a pricey adapter is desired: speed. The two "legacy" PCI slots in the X1000 are only capable of 33mhz. When I tried a 9250 card in that in order to use Warp3D with my X1000, I was sorely disappointed in the performance. It looked better on my Sam. This past year I followed the lead of folks posting in a thread over on Amigans and bought a rather expensive PCIe to PCI-X adapter and plug my PCI 9200 card (no longer have the 9250) into that. The adapted PCI-X slot yielded PCI speed of 66mhz, and 3D performance is much, much better. But it's a pretty Frankenstein solution..... PCIe ribbon thingy going from small PCIe slot to the PCI-X adapter turned upside down and then 9200 PCI card plugged into that and hanging in my case with some ingenuity of my own devising. Better solution will be RadeonHD 3D drivers..... one day. Meantime, my 3D is better than it was, at least.
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I noticed no difference with the StarTech adapter in the performance of my 9250 (half-height) card; but then I only had an A4000T to compare it to, not a SAM machine. But it was used as the primary graphics card in most of my applications to the point that the basic 3D functions became less important than the better Radeon HD 9250 card (now degraded back to the original HD 5000 series card it shipped with).
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Let me be clear.... not the cheap StarTech PCIe to PCI adapter. I use one of those for my ethernet card, by the way. Yields another 33mhz PCI slot. I mean a pricey and less common PCIe to PCI-X adapter. The X makes all the difference. Actually can yield a 133mhz slot, but of course the 9200/9250 can't go that fast.
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=91790#forumpost91790
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You know why I never checked the polarity of my stereo speakers? Because I can't tell the difference.
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Thankfully one can actually measure framerate ;)
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You know why I never checked the polarity of my stereo speakers? Because I can't tell the difference.
I was told that as long as the polarity is the same on all speakers then it should sound fine. So if you have the wires going from + on the Amp to - on the speakers then there no problem if all speaker are configured that way.
If you have a mixture of polarities on different speakers then the speakers will be out of phase. To be honest I've never tried setting it up that way just to see if it noticeable.
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Ok, let me put in another way, "If it seems fast, it is."
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Ok, let me put in another way, "If it seems fast, it is."
You must not use Blender. But if you are happy, I'm happy. ;)
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I was told that as long as the polarity is the same on all speakers then it should sound fine. So if you have the wires going from + on the Amp to - on the speakers then there no problem if all speaker are configured that way.
If you have a mixture of polarities on different speakers then the speakers will be out of phase. To be honest I've never tried setting it up that way just to see if it noticeable.
With "out of polarity speakers" the bass will sound weak because they cancel each other out.
Chris
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There are different ideas of what's "best".. for some it's raw power, some are more interested in running quiet, maybe even fanless.. Some must stay with a single slot, others can spare the space for a double-wide card.. Many things you could use to help decide.
Ther's a guy in the Netherlands who seems to know a little bit about RadeonHD on OS4, and he was kind enough to put a webpage together to answer your question.
http://www.hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/radeonhd-driver/radeonhd-card-recommendations-for-amigaos-4-x/
I see that page was last updated just a few weeks ago, so the information should be pretty fresh.
What is the status of the Warp3D drivers for Radeon HD video cards? It was supposed to be finished prior to the end of 2012, 2 full years ago. Did it get cancelled, or is Hans still going to complete Warp3D for Radeon HD cards? With no clear idea of when Gallium, or any other kind of 3D support will be finished for AmigaOS4.2, it would be nice to know if work is still being done to provide Warp3D for our Radeon HD video cards.
Hans, are you reading this?
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What is the status of the Warp3D drivers for Radeon HD video cards? It was supposed to be finished prior to the end of 2012, 2 full years ago. Did it get cancelled, or is Hans still going to complete Warp3D for Radeon HD cards? With no clear idea of when Gallium, or any other kind of 3D support will be finished for AmigaOS4.2, it would be nice to know if work is still being done to provide Warp3D for our Radeon HD video cards.
Hans, are you reading this?
HJF doesn't read this forum, so no, he's not reading your post. :lol:
basically, as trevor mentioned at amiwest this year, due to health reasons of the developer, W3D for radeonHD was put on hold for some time. since then A-EON has purchased the rights to W3D and is resuming work on it. beyond that no one knows except matthew, trevor, and whomever they've contracted to complete the work.
-- eliyahu
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HJF doesn't read this forum, so no, he's not reading your post. :lol:
Probably an obvious question, but is there any reason why prominent Amiga developers wouldn't be members of this forum? Is it so they don't get burned out by negativity/trolling, or just so they can keep focused and busy on coding and not bogged down in forums? Ha, oh well, I think I answered my own question, good luck on the drivers! :)
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HJF doesn't read this forum, so no, he's not reading your post. :lol:
basically, as trevor mentioned at amiwest this year, due to health reasons of the developer, W3D for radeonHD was put on hold for some time. since then A-EON has purchased the rights to W3D and is resuming work on it. beyond that no one knows except matthew, trevor, and whomever they've contracted to complete the work.
-- eliyahu
The Hans I was referring to was Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/), not HJF, as the link you provided stated that Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) was working on Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x and that he thought it would be done by the end of 2012.
I am aware of the health problems HJF has had which have delayed other software projects, but I had not read of any health problems Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) has had which would explain the long delay in the completion of Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x.
Since Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) has been contracted by A-Eon to do other work on Radeon HD drivers for AmigaOS4.x, I can only guess that such contracted work has gotten in the way of the completion of Warp3D that is mentioned by Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) in the web pages you provided the link for.
Edit: My mistake. From reading the links provided on HDR's web pages, I mistakenly thought that he was working on the Warp3D drivers.
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Probably an obvious question, but is there any reason why prominent Amiga developers wouldn't be members of this forum? Is it so they don't get burned out by negativity/trolling, or just so they can keep focused and busy on coding and not bogged down in forums? Ha, oh well, I think I answered my own question, good luck on the drivers! :)
They are members at AWN what used to be the OS4 support forum.
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The Hans I was referring to was Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/), not HJF, as the link you provided stated that Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) was working on Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x and that he thought it would be done by the end of 2012.
...
Edit: My mistake. From reading the links provided on HDR's web pages, I mistakenly thought that he was working on the Warp3D drivers.
Correct, I am not responsible for the Warp3D drivers. I have provided documentation, some example code and a little assistance, but it's not one of my projects.
Hans
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The Hans I was referring to was Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/), not HJF, as the link you provided stated that Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) was working on Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x and that he thought it would be done by the end of 2012.
I am aware of the health problems HJF has had which have delayed other software projects, but I had not read of any health problems Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) has had which would explain the long delay in the completion of Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x.
Since Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) has been contracted by A-Eon to do other work on Radeon HD drivers for AmigaOS4.x, I can only guess that such contracted work has gotten in the way of the completion of Warp3D that is mentioned by Hans de Ruiter (http://hdrlab.org.nz/about-me/) in the web pages you provided the link for.
Edit: My mistake. From reading the links provided on HDR's web pages, I mistakenly thought that he was working on the Warp3D drivers.
reference regarding health of tfrieden (http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5611&forum=37&post_id=75024#forumpost75024)
much later reference by hfj on his feelings (http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?start=0&topic_id=6056&viewmode=&order=ASC&type=&mode=0)
Despite your reference to what Trevor spoke of, it is pretty clear in his own words this isn't strictly about health issues.
#6
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reference regarding health of tfrieden (http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5611&forum=37&post_id=75024#forumpost75024)
much later reference by hfj on his feelings (http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?start=0&topic_id=6056&viewmode=&order=ASC&type=&mode=0)
Despite your reference to what Trevor spoke of, it is pretty clear in his own words this isn't strictly about health issues.
#6
The first reference is from 2012, the second from August 2013; these may not be relevant as we approach 2015.
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danbeaver,
The boards have even cleaned up since then. Especially with new owners.
Chris
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danbeaver,
The boards have even cleaned up since then. Especially with new owners.
Chris
Chris,
I was referring to the fact that old posts tend to be inaccurate, in lieu of new things occurring; given time, "Crap Happens."
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Thank you Lyle! yes I have checked his page out and I like the "Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3G GDDR5 OC Version (11221-00-25G)". It looks like the baddest card he has on his list. I hope it will fit in the AmigaOne X1000 (its a big card with the cooler). I am sure after people get there hand on AOS4.1FE & the new HD driver, we will see what people think. I may just buy the card and see what happens :) thanks for your advice!!
Hey, nice choice :hammer:
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danbeaver,
Your right about that too. I'm sure he has found a logical idea to organize projects and is working on something, we just don't know what it is from day to day.
The mind can come up with answers to various projects, mine happen at night usually. But they never come in the order you expect or may want!
Chris
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Correct, I am not responsible for the Warp3D drivers. I have provided documentation, some example code and a little assistance, but it's not one of my projects.
Hans
Hello Hans,
From reading your HDRLabs website, it seems to me that you would be the perfect person to take over the completion of the Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards drivers/software.
With the completion of AmigaOS4.2 and Gallium/Mesa probably many months, or even a couple of years away, we really could use Warp3D for Radeon HD to provide a "stop-gap" solution of 3D support, until AmigaOS4.2 is released.
If someone like yourself, or another qualified programmer were to take on the Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x and Radeon HD video cards, it would take the responsibility of one project away from the Frieden brothers, who have enough other projects to work on at the moment.
A bounty could probably be created for such Radeon HD Warp3D work, or possibly A-Eon could fund the development and sell the completed work afterwards. I would certainly donate to such a bounty, or buy Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards, to use on my X1000 system.
Sorry for my confusion when I first read your site and thought that you were already working on Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards. I have also written you a private email concerning your reading recommendations, as listed on your site.
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Hello Hans,
From reading your HDRLabs website, it seems to me that you would be the perfect person to take over the completion of the Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards drivers/software.
With the completion of AmigaOS4.2 and Gallium/Mesa probably many months, or even a couple of years away, we really could use Warp3D for Radeon HD to provide a "stop-gap" solution of 3D support, until AmigaOS4.2 is released.
If someone like yourself, or another qualified programmer were to take on the Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x and Radeon HD video cards, it would take the responsibility of one project away from the Frieden brothers, who have enough other projects to work on at the moment.
A bounty could probably be created for such Radeon HD Warp3D work, or possibly A-Eon could fund the development and sell the completed work afterwards. I would certainly donate to such a bounty, or buy Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards, to use on my X1000 system.
Sorry for my confusion when I first read your site and thought that you were already working on Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards. I have also written you a private email concerning your reading recommendations, as listed on your site.
The press release from Amiwest says that Warp3D development is back on track so it doesn't sound as if the project needs to be re-assigned.
If Hans-Jörg has already put a substantial amount of time and effort into development of the drivers then it makes more sense that he complete it since he already knows exactly where he is with the development.
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As an aside, the Radeon HD 9250 I used is very full sized, takes 2 power connectors and uses up 2 slots, but in the Fractal R4 case it fits (a bit snuggly).
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The press release from Amiwest says that Warp3D development is back on track so it doesn't sound as if the project needs to be re-assigned.
If Hans-Jörg has already put a substantial amount of time and effort into development of the drivers then it makes more sense that he complete it since he already knows exactly where he is with the development.
correct. as mentioned earlier A-EON is continuing to support W3D development and has purchased all rights to W3D. so no bounty is needed. :)
-- eliyahu
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Hello Hans,
From reading your HDRLabs website, it seems to me that you would be the perfect person to take over the completion of the Warp3D for Radeon HD video cards drivers/software.
With the completion of AmigaOS4.2 and Gallium/Mesa probably many months, or even a couple of years away, we really could use Warp3D for Radeon HD to provide a "stop-gap" solution of 3D support, until AmigaOS4.2 is released.
If someone like yourself, or another qualified programmer were to take on the Warp3D for AmigaOS4.x and Radeon HD video cards, it would take the responsibility of one project away from the Frieden brothers, who have enough other projects to work on at the moment.
If A-EON ask me to work on it, I'll certainly consider it even though I'm pretty busy with other things.
However, AFAIK Hans-Joerg is working on finishing the driver, and I don't think that switching developers is worth it at this point. There was a major road-block earlier on, but that's been solved.
Hans