Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: tonyvdb on December 15, 2014, 10:26:58 PM
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Has anybody used the BigRamPlus
http://www.vesalia.de/e_bigramplus.htm
Im thinking of one for my A4000Dthat I use with a Mediator board in a tower.
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This is a dumb question, but one I'd been meaning to ask for a while. What would happen if you use one of these devices (or a ZorRam) on a Zorro II system? Would they be able to use 8MB of it? Or not see it at all?
Reason is pretty logical, if I wanted to replace old full-size ZII RAM expansion boards with more modern components, better reliability, better airflow inside case, etc.
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Funny how we get excited about adding 128mb of ram or even 8mb LOL thats so 80s
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Answer #1, yes I've used a ZorRAM and a BigRam+ in A4000T & D's (even an A3000D) and they work fine. When used with a Mediator (which can grab 512 MB of Z3 address space) one has to be careful with the way the Z3 address space (1 GB) is allocated; if you do it incorrectly you will run out of address space. For example, the ZorRAM 128MB allocates 256 MB of space thus wasting 128 MB of address space. The two ram boards are otherwise identical except for the layout: the BigRam+ has all its RAM on 1 side, and only comes in 256 MB (the amount it allocates). Otherwise the parts and firmware are the same.
Answer #2, Sorry 442 or is it 455? Both are Z3 (32-bit boards) and lay outside the Z2 24-bit address space; so a A2000 can't see it.
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Makes sense. Bummer, oh well. Thanks @danbeaver! :)
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Yeah, that is why 32-bit RAM had to be put on the accelerator board itself when used in an A2000 (but boy, those 040's and 060's would make an A2000 fly)...
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Answer #1, yes I've used a ZorRAM and a BigRam+ in A4000T & D's (even an A3000D) and they work fine.
BigRAM+ is NOT guarantied to work in a A4000 with third-party BusBoards! Because of bad Z3 - termination! It is only guarantied in original Commdore Busboards or Tower-Models!
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BigRAM+ is NOT guarantied to work in a A4000 with third-party BusBoards! Because of bad Z3 - termination! It is only guarantied in original Commdore Busboards or Tower-Models!
You don't say!
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So BigRam wont work with a Mediator 4000 or in most cases it will?
ZorRam says it does work with the Mediator however AmigaKit does not have any available for sale right now.
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So BigRam wont work with a Mediator 4000 or in most cases it will?
ZorRam says it does work with the Mediator however AmigaKit does not have any available for sale right now.
i use a zoram 256Mb with the mediator and cyberstorm ppc. it works just fine. I have installed: radeon 9250,sb128,deneb usb.
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So BigRam wont work with a Mediator 4000 or in most cases it will?
ZorRam says it does work with the Mediator however AmigaKit does not have any available for sale right now.
It does work with the Mediator, but certain "add on" boards that give Zorro slots to tower systems (to the best of my knowledge these are for adding Z3 to an A1200) don't work. Those machine that already have Z3 slots (A3000D/T and A4000D/T) with expanded Z3 slots (Mediator) work fine; I'm sure those who write aggressively with excessive punctuation will follow up this post with specific examples of boards that don't work well due to "poor Z3 slot Termination." Although the only A4000D towered model I had in the past, did work with a BigRam+.
I believe iComp.de (https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/shop/product/bigramplus.html) and Vesalia.de (http://www.vesalia.de/e_bigramplus.htm) has BigRam+ boards. The ZorRam boards are not listed on AmigaKit's site.
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I'm sure those who write aggressively with excessive punctuation will follow up this post with specific examples of boards that don't work well due to "poor Z3 slot Termination." Although the only A4000D towered model I had in the past, did work with a BigRam+.
I was in the Beta-Test Team of the BigRam+ and it was not working with Micronic and Eagle Crap in A4000 in stable conditions ...... Mediator could work, but NOT guarantied... I never said it is not working....
BTW: if you loose a TCP-Packet, who cares.... if you loose Bytes in RAM ? Do what ever you want.....
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I just installed a BigRAM+ board in my A4000 but ran into a problem. I have WB35 on my hard drive. It does not see the board at all. But if I boot off a WB31 floppy, it works just fine. Any ideas?
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I just installed a BigRAM+ board in my A4000 but ran into a problem. I have WB35 on my hard drive. It does not see the board at all. But if I boot off a WB31 floppy, it works just fine. Any ideas?
When you say "It does not see the board at all", what tools are you using to detect it? See if it shows up in Scout or SysInfo or ShowConfig or similar?
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I use ShowConfig and Amiga Analyzer, even just the top window bar. Like I said, it works fine in WB31 from a floppy boot, but when I boot from the HD with WB35, neither memory nor board show up. Even did a memory test on it and all the memory came up good (in WB31).
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This new information is good to know. I was considering buying one of these as the Zoram is no longer available. I guess I'll just pass on both for now. Thank You.
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I use ShowConfig and Amiga Analyzer, even just the top window bar. Like I said, it works fine in WB31 from a floppy boot, but when I boot from the HD with WB35, neither memory nor board show up. Even did a memory test on it and all the memory came up good (in WB31).
So what you're saying if you hold down both mouse buttons and go into early startup, the card shows up fine, but then by the time 3.5 is finished loading the card has disappeared? That's very odd. Can you boot with no startup sequence and detect the card then?
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I used AmigaOS 3.9 and the memory of the Big RAM Plus does show in Workbench.
There must be someting in your user-startup and startup-sequence that disable the memory.
Have you already tried Boot Without No Startup-Sequence and use LoadWB to load Workbench?
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I tried to boot with no startup sequence and loaded amiga analyzer and it failed to see the memory. But as I said, when I boot from floppy, WB31 sees it just fine. I even ran a successful memory diagnostic. Could the HD partition mask have anything to do with it?
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Could somebody please tell me how I could modify the partition mask without repartitioning the hard drive?
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Could somebody please tell me how I could modify the partition mask without repartitioning the hard drive?
You should be able to do this in HDToolbox. As long as you don't touch any of the other settings I believe this is a non-destructive change.
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I tried to boot with no startup sequence and loaded amiga analyzer and it failed to see the memory. But as I said, when I boot from floppy, WB31 sees it just fine. I even ran a successful memory diagnostic. Could the HD partition mask have anything to do with it?
I'm not familiar with this "Amiga Analyzer" software. Just boot with no startup sequence and type 'avail' at the command prompt. Autoconfig memory should automatically show up. When all else fails, don't try fancy tools. Just use the basic stuff already built into the OS for troubleshooting. ;)
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I'm not familiar with this "Amiga Analyzer" software. Just boot with no startup sequence and type 'avail' at the command prompt. Autoconfig memory should automatically show up. When all else fails, don't try fancy tools. Just use the basic stuff already built into the OS for troubleshooting. ;)
I booted with no startup-sequence and typed avail as you suggested. It shows my 2MB of chip ram and my 16MB of fast ram and that is all. The ram board does not show up. (Unless I boot with WB31, then everything sees it.)
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You should be able to do this in HDToolbox. As long as you don't touch any of the other settings I believe this is a non-destructive change.
I actually tried that but it did not change my mask.
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I booted with no startup-sequence and typed avail as you suggested. It shows my 2MB of chip ram and my 16MB of fast ram and that is all. The ram board does not show up. (Unless I boot with WB31, then everything sees it.)
Well that's no bueno. Is there an autoconfig jumper? Have you tried it in a different slot? Try removing any other boards and using just the BigRamPlus. Any changes then?
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I actually tried that but it did not change my mask.
You have to type in a new value, press enter, and then save changes.
HDToolbox is funny that way. If you don't press enter after each field it can act funny. Known bug.
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You should start a new thread for this and explain what you are trying to do and where you need help.
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You should start a new thread for this and explain what you are trying to do and where you need help.
Post #13. The memory on the board won't autoconfig.
I forgot or if I missed it somewhere: it does show up correctly in Early Startup, correct?
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OK, I see the connection between the BigRam+ and the OS, but if the board is available in 3.1, then it is working; if unavailable in 3.5, then there is a bad install or something similar going on; I can't figure out how a HDD mask (using default settings) would affect an autoconfig device already in place by the time the HDD is initiated.
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OK, I see the connection between the BigRam+ and the OS, but if the board is available in 3.1, then it is working; if unavailable in 3.5, then there is a bad install or something similar going on; I can't figure out how a HDD mask (using default settings) would affect an autoconfig device already in place by the time the HDD is initiated.
Personally I would vote for junking the crappy 3.5 install, format the hard drive and install a fresh copy of 3.9, but maybe that's just me. ;)
Either way, a boot with no Startup-Sequence and typing avail should show the memory. It may have some kind of issue that is 3.1 disk is working around, like maybe it's got an AddMem command stuck in there, or something. May help to analyze further why it works when booting off the 3.1 floppy but not off 3.5 on the hard drive. Post the startup-sequence off your 3.1 disk?
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The BigRam+ autoconfigures for KS 2.04 and up, so it should be available before KS turns over control the a boot floppy or HDD.
So I vote to ditch 3.5 and do a fresh install of 3.9 as Mike says. OS3.9 updates a lot of drivers and with the evolving Boing Bag #4 is being updated by concerned citizens of Amiga township.
At the least work in sequence: Do a fresh HDD install of 3.1 to see if it works, then an Clean upgrade to OS3.5, and finally upgrade to 3.9.
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You have to type in a new value, press enter, and then save changes.
HDToolbox is funny that way. If you don't press enter after each field it can act funny. Known bug.
Thanks for that. I was able to change the mask, but apparently that was not my problem. Is anyone known to have a BigRAMPlus board working with Workbench 3.5? I have no other boards in my system and have tried different slots. My kickstart is 3.1. I have uploaded the startup-sequence from the WB31 boot disk. It should be the original unaltered file from the install disks. Nothing special.
I am beginning to wonder if it is the OS patch from a boing bag.
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It works in a normal install of OS3.5, no additions needed.
Try the suggestions Mike and I have suggested.
In addition, the startup text you posted is for a floppy based WorkBench; try:
C:SetPatch QUIET
C:Version >NIL:
C:AddBuffers >NIL: DF0: 15
FailAt 21
C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards RAM:ENV RAM:ENV/Sys
C:Copy >NIL: ENVARC: RAM:ENV ALL NOREQ
Resident >NIL: C:Assign PURE
Resident >NIL: C:Execute PURE
Assign >NIL: ENV: RAM:ENV
Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T
Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards
Assign >NIL: REXX: S:
Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers
Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:Keymaps
Assign >NIL: LOCALE: SYS:Locale
Assign >NIL: LIBS: SYS:Classes ADD
Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER
BindDrivers ;really unneeded if no drivers in SYS:Expansion
C:Mount >NIL: DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info)
IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors
IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
EndIF
C:List >NIL: DEVS:Monitors/~(#?.info|VGAOnly) TO T:M LFORMAT "DEVS:Monitors/%s"
Execute T:M
C:Delete >NIL: T:M
EndIF
SetEnv Language "english"
SetEnv Workbench $Workbench
SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart
UnSet Workbench
UnSet Kickstart
C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET
C:IPrefs
C:ConClip
Path >NIL: RAM: C: SYS:Utilities SYS:Rexxc SYS:System S: SYS:Prefs SYS:WBStartup SYS:Tools SYS:Tools/Commodities
Execute S:User-Startup
Resident Execute REMOVE
Resident Assign REMOVE
C:LoadWB SKIP ;Skips cuts out any WBStartup items
EndCLI >NIL:
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With the exception of a few commented lines, that Startup-Sequence is identical to the one I use with WB35 on my hard drive.
I just realized something. When I cold boot (power-on), the memory is not seen. But if I do a warm boot (Ctrl-A-A), the memory shows up.
I noticed previously that when I hold down the mouse buttons on boot up, the board appears in the Boot Menu diagnostic. But If I wait a couple seconds to hold the buttons (I suspect after AmigaOS ROM Update loads) the memory board no longer appears in the Boot Menu diagnostic.
Annoying. It may be some reset circuit on the MB not functioning properly.
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I'm just grasping at straws at this point. You said this is the only expansion board you have, right? Do you have any other boards you can test with to see if maybe the problem is with your expansion bus? Have you cleaned and re-seated the backplane connector? Is there any possibility of testing this board on another system?
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I may be grasping at straws as well, but have you thought that a bad "setpatch + ROM update" is changing your vectors and a clean ipartition with a fresh install might fix it? At least disable the ROM update by renaming it or "C:Setpatch NOROMUPDATE" in your S:S-S file.
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I pulled out the daughterboard and cleaned out the motherboard slot and the daughterboard connector and slots with 91% alcohol. If I disable the ROM update, most of my hard drive partitions will be inaccessible.
I use a 120GB HD and only the first two partitions are within the 4GB limit.
The RAM board is the only Zorro III board I have. I have an A2620 and an A2630 but those would not help at all.
I am kind of saving wiping the hard drive as a last resort. Don't really want to lose all that effort.
I am relieved to know that it works correctly after a warm boot.
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So I picked up one of the 256MB versions of this. I cant get it to work in my A4000T. I have a mediator and have read it works fine with one, but when the card is installed my mediator doesnt show up and I get no RAM from the bigramplus. If I pull it out I get my mediator and cards back.
I have tried it with the winsize jumper open and closed as well as the swap config open and closed. Any help would be appreciated.
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So after moving some cards around and making sure the swap jumper is open on my A4000T mediator I decided to try this BigRamPlus once more. Amikit asked me to see what it shows in early startup, and in every ZIII slot it shows as defective. Here is an example picture. Is this a bad card or a bad config? In anycase I am stuck with a board I am not sure works.
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Well, that Expansion Board Diagnostic screenshot you posted seems pretty straight-forward.
Probably a dumb question, but do you have any other systems you can test it in?
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I pulled out the daughterboard and cleaned out the motherboard slot and the daughterboard connector and slots with 91% alcohol. If I disable the ROM update, most of my hard drive partitions will be inaccessible.
I use a 120GB HD and only the first two partitions are within the 4GB limit.
The RAM board is the only Zorro III board I have. I have an A2620 and an A2630 but those would not help at all.
I am kind of saving wiping the hard drive as a last resort. Don't really want to lose all that effort.
I am relieved to know that it works correctly after a warm boot.
I may of missed this, but what revision of 3640 are you using(or accelerator?). are you using custom modified roms?
I have heard of cases where the term resistors on the slotboard were installed backward- may be something to check.
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So after moving some cards around and making sure the swap jumper is open on my A4000T mediator I decided to try this BigRamPlus once more. Amikit asked me to see what it shows in early startup, and in every ZIII slot it shows as defective. Here is an example picture. Is this a bad card or a bad config? In anycase I am stuck with a board I am not sure works.
The 4000t with mediator is super picky on the card order,it could be you are running out of zorro3 space with the particular order. i will check with a friend who runs a 4000t,i think he uses a zoram but i am not sure.
Can you try it in a A3000 or A4000 and see if it shows ok?
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Well, that Expansion Board Diagnostic screenshot you posted seems pretty straight-forward.
Probably a dumb question, but do you have any other systems you can test it in?
The 4000t with mediator is super picky on the card order,it could be you are running out of zorro3 space with the particular order. i will check with a friend who runs a 4000t,i think he uses a zoram but i am not sure.
Can you try it in a A3000 or A4000 and see if it shows ok?
I'm trying to get ahold of someone in the area I know with an A4000 but havent got a reply back. I suspect he is gone for holiday. I have tried every free slot with the memory window jumper (SWAP) in both positions. It returns the same defect error on all attempts in early startup.
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Did you ever get this resolved? I was about to try the same thing but wanted to see if you learned anything first.
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Sorry to revive this thread. I have no real problem using my BigRAMplus in my A4000 with Mediator 4000Di MK III (3,3v) being recognised in both AOS 3.x and AOS 4.1. However it is not running all too stable in AOS3.x. So now I'm wondering (amongst other things) what is the Mediator jumper settings needed.
I have:
A4000D
2Chip + 16 FastRAM
Buster 11
CSPPC + 128 MB
Mediator 4000Di
Voodoo 3
PCI NIC
Highway USB
BigRAMPlus 256 MB
If I follow this guide https://mediators.github.io my mediator jumpers would be:
Master: Closed
Winsize: Open (since my voodoo has much less than 256 MB)
Swap: Closed since the BigRAMplus supports DMA, correct?
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I've got it working now yes. It was card order and I ended up using a ZIII riser to put it in a different slot. The riser on a 4000D isnt needed since you get a new board with ZIII slots unlike on the 4000T that uses the original slots and are lower than the PCI sitting on top of the board.
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Has anyone measured the throughput of these BigRamPlus and compared it with the speeds of other Zorro III memory boards like the ZorRam and the Fastlane Z3?
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Has anyone measured the throughput of these BigRamPlus and compared it with the speeds of other Zorro III memory boards like the ZorRam and the Fastlane Z3?
I had a couple fastlane cards and got rid of them after getting the BigRAM. I had experiences of the bigRAM being faster just because of the newer RAM on it. Its also WAY cheaper. I got quite a bit of cash for the fastlane cards too.
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ZorRam has read speed of approx 5MB/s and write of about 9.5MB/s according to bustest
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I haven't been able to get it to work with my 4000D with mediator. I have heard that others have had success and yet again others have had failure. Your mileage may vary.