Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: TekkNed on November 10, 2014, 11:08:34 AM
-
Not sure where to put this post but as I'm considering selling the item, I'm going to place it here in the Amiga Marketplace.
I have an Amiga 4000/040 lying around and it's quite yellow. I was wondering if I should use the retrobright method to make it white again. Would it increase it's value?
-
Well, you would think, but I retrobrighted an A3000, even removed and cleaned each key on the keyboard. The thing looked like new, sold on Ebay for about $230 CDN :-(. I guess you never know.
-
From what I've heard, haven't tried it myself, IF you retrobrite, you need to go over the plastic with a clear coat to seal it. Otherrwise, it will yellow again.
Just what I've heard.
-
Thanks. Yeah, I read somewhere to put some sort of clear lacquer on the machine. After applying the retrobright.
http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Ultra+Violet+Energy
-
I retrobrited my A500 and didn't put anything on it afterward, and it yellowed again. Looked nice for a while, anyway. :( My A2000 faceplate seems to have held up a lot better, but then again (1) it wasn't as bad as the A500 in the first place, and (2) I don't think I used such a strong mixture of the stuff. Maybe there's some trick in doing it that way?
-
The Retr0Brite process uses 12% Hydrogen Peroxide to whiten the plastics, but it leaves microscopic "pits" in the plastic that allows it to re-yellow; a clear, matte coating of a polyurethane spray paint will seal it nicely and is undetectable visually leaving a new appearing plastic part (if the Retr0Briting was done correctly). Metal cases were originally painted with enamel and after cleaning and sanding should be repainted with enamel, although it takes several days to dry; the best approach is to take it to a car paint place and have them match the original color and paint it there.
-
Is there a guide (ideally with pictures) of how to do RetroBright and apply it? I have been trying to do it for some time now but never had any success. I even bought an extra A500 Case to test on! On some sites there are instructions of how to build RetroBright but on another forum I was told to just use BBlond. I really would like my A500 to look like new again but cannot seem to get it to work!
-
Is there a guide (ideally with pictures) of how to do RetroBright and apply it?
Not a good one. I spent hours looking up this same thing when I did mine, with limited success. There are plenty of guides, but most of them only mention stores and products that are only available in Europe. Here in the US they were next to useless, I wound up having to "wing it". As you're in Europe you might have better luck finding said products, lol. ;)
-
It's OK, but there's potential for damage if not done properly, and re-yellowing is likely.
Best, but most expensive permanent option would be color-matched vinyl dye from a company like parasol (http://www.parasolinc.com/).
-
I've had good luck with plain old 3% peroxide from walgreens. i used a fiberglass dough rising pan and bent up some brass brazing rods(stainless welding wire works too) to bolt to the pieces(use only stainless or brass screws-plated steel will rust and contaminate the peroxide).
I keep the pieces 100% submerged (chip clips to hold the wire to the pan)in the peroxide and leave it in the hot texas sun for a day. I brought back 3 1200 cases/keyboards to white and one of the 1200's was orange when i started-literally orange. I did many A4000 pieces and some A3000 bezels also. They all came out great.
be sure not to ever let the parts float up into the air or you will get stain lines(ask me how i know).
I don't use oxyclean or the paste some suggest.
I have even added distilled water to the peroxide to make up for evaporation and it still worked ok,just a bit slower.
The secret i think is the light source and warmth-cold liquid doesn't work well.Texas summers can get to 100f+.
UV lighting with the proper wavelength is probably best. To date none of the stuff i whitened has returned to yellow.
You can boil peroxide down to make it stronger(DO IT OUTSIDE in a well ventilated place!). I have never needed to do this however.
Stronger peroxides can possibly be found at beauty supply.
-
I've been tempted to clean up some of my yellowing Amiga hardware but as yet have not tried to do so. One of the problems was sourcing large large volumes of commercial strength hydrogen peroxide when I lived in central London (about 150m from Parliament/Gorverment buildings).
Now I live in NZ I might give it a try. Interesting to see the comments about re-sealing the plastic after cleaning.
TrevorD
-
Make sure you Document it Trevor,
You first, then I'll take the plunge ;-)
-
You first, then I'll take the plunge ;-)
;-)
I've got one or two items that look like they've suffered from Yellow Fever! ;-)
TrevorD
-
EAB has a "Sticky" Guide in there Hardware Support section, but a beauty supply shops (Sally's in the states) will sell 16 Oz of 40-Volume Creme hair developer (12% Peroxide) for about $12 USD that easily coats plastic parts; wrap it in plastic (Saran Wrap) after applying a thick coat and leave it in the sun. On a warm, sunny day in the Midwest US, the majority of the yellow is gone in 4 hours. Once whitened to your liking, rinse off the coating and let dry overnight, then spray the clear, matte coat to protect it.
Uneven coating will result in streaks and require further treatment; not washing dirt off the plastic before treatment will do the same; not taping the plastic wrap on will let the wind blow it loose and areas will dry out and this stops the whitening process; not wearing gloves will sclerose your skin (which looks and feels funny). "Nothing is 'fool proof' because fools are so ingenious."
-
So I decided to retrobright the A4000 I have. I was wondering if I need to protect the Commodore logo. Anyone?
-
I would, either cover or remove it.
-
So I decided to retrobright the A4000 I have. I was wondering if I need to protect the Commodore logo. Anyone?
Yes, a simple cover of Scotch clear tape (cut to not cover any of the plastic you are whitening) will work fine and peel off easily afterwards; I use an X-acto knife to trim up mine.
-
I would not waste the time to "retrobright" a computer's plastic parts. Krylon makes a plastic "paint" called Fusion, that has an "almond" color which is a good match for our computers. It gives a good color, looks like a new computer, and will NOT yellow again.
If you have to seal the retrobright, why not just paint and be done?
-
I have painted two plastic fascia that did not look "good enough" once retr0brited, but I prefer the original look and the clear coat takes no time to add and dry. I spend my most time wrapping the retr0brited parts in Saran Wrap and taping up the backs than anything else; on a warm day in direct sunshine 90% of the "work" is done in 4 hours, and is completed in 6 hours.
-
Agreed, to each their own, but I wouldn't paint plastic. (Metal covers are another thing, again if originality is important you'd want to research methods that provide the most accurate results).
I tried peroxide, it works, but the piece slowly re-yellowed, and there are risks involved. Clear-coating presents the same issues as painting and will not provide a "factory" appearance, so no thanks. Typically clearcoats have at least some minor amount of permeability, so I'm not entirely convinced you can't still have a return of yellowing (and now you have a mess).
Dyeing solves all the problems, it leaves the original surface texture of the plastic intact and (assuming a good color match) will render the plastic looking new, indefinitely. It's the most expensive option though, plus you need an un-yellowed sample for color matching (and an air compressor, spray gun, respirator, etc). Practice on some junk plastic first...
I'd rather have original yellowed plastic than something painted or "retro-brighted", but that's just me.
-
I have bought a batch of 12% peroxide to use at some point after ive built a UV bed (no sun in Sweden haha) to use on a Commodore PC keyboard that is badly yellowed to get it to it's former glory, the thing holding me off is the re-yellowing, don't know how long it takes, if it lasts a few years I don't mind.
This keyboard (not my pic mine is more yellow) is the one I want in correct color again for my Commodore PC-20 III, the case is in great shape but not the keyboard sadly :/
The gray/white colors seems to be inverted on the Commodore PC keyboards compared to the Amiga keyboards.
(http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/images/2010-11-13-commodore-pc-10-III-keyboard.jpg)
-
Agreed, to each their own, but I wouldn't paint plastic. (Metal covers are another thing, again if originality is important you'd want to research methods that provide the most accurate results).
I'd rather have original yellowed plastic than something painted or "retro-brighted", but that's just me.
If you loose the factory look to the surface - don't apply the "paint" quite so heavy. This actually easier to do with spray can than spray gun.
But, as you say - to each his own....
-
I decided NOT to retrobright the A4000 and leave that decision to the potential buyer. I'm going to put my A4000/040 - 16MB up for sale this week. Not sure if I will put it on e-bay or just place a message here and see what happens.
-
I think the whole "retro-brite" thing is a huge waste of time. I found a plastics "paint" called Fusion made by Krylon that I use. They have an "almond" color that matches many of the Commodore machines quite well. It comes in spray cans that lay down a very good surface. Hell, if we have to "seal" the plastic after "retro-brite", why not just cut out the middleman and paint the things. I have one machine that I would defy anyone to tell it was painted!
-
This keyboard (not my pic mine is more yellow) is the one I want in correct color again for my Commodore PC-20 III, the case is in great shape but not the keyboard sadly :/
The gray/white colors seems to be inverted on the Commodore PC keyboards compared to the Amiga keyboards.
(http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/images/2010-11-13-commodore-pc-10-III-keyboard.jpg)
I don't mean to derail the topic, but is that a Commodore branded IBM Model-M keyboard? Wow, if it is I would like one of those! I use a regular IBM branded Model-M currently. What is the part number?
-
I don't mean to derail the topic, but is that a Commodore branded IBM Model-M keyboard? Wow, if it is I would like one of those! I use a regular IBM branded Model-M currently. What is the part number?
Yes it is! (not my pic just picked one on google images since my keyboard and computer is in storage) It's a buckling spring Model M with Commodore branding :D In my opinion the coolest Model M on the market :D
These are really hard to come by with buckling springs, family bought this together with the Commodore PC, sadly it has seen better days, no wear adn tear but mine has yellowed quite a bit, also Has the shortcut stickers from the Q&A Symantec software, easy to remove so not problems there but I want it to be white again that's why I posted here :)
I cann check the part number when I take it out the next time but if my memory serves me right it could be a commodore sticker there so I do not know if part numbers are the same as IBM branded ones.
Edit: I would realy like to use it at my main workstation but I want to have it together with my Commodore PC-20 III when I amd done with it, I want toadd a FPU, 1-2MB ISA RAM Expansion (there are hell to get hold of with software) and a fitting ISA VGA card from the era (Hercules monochrome ain't to fun) :)
So anyone has ISA graphics card from 1986-1991ish hit me a PM and I'll buy it, something like ATI Wonder series, Tseng Labs ET4000, S3's or Cirrus Logics from that era. Would make my day if anyone has that :D
Should have some Cirrus Logics laying around somewhere in my storage so should look into that but I think at least most of them are to modern, around mid 90s, I know I have a few Oak Technology cards but don't know to much about them, took em from 486 computers in mid/late 90s when everyone throwed those computers on the dump.
-
I've had good luck with plain old 3% peroxide from walgreens. i used a fiberglass dough rising pan and bent up some brass brazing rods(stainless welding wire works too) to bolt to the pieces(use only stainless or brass screws-plated steel will rust and contaminate the peroxide).
I keep the pieces 100% submerged (chip clips to hold the wire to the pan)in the peroxide and leave it in the hot texas sun for a day. I brought back 3 1200 cases/keyboards to white and one of the 1200's was orange when i started-literally orange. I did many A4000 pieces and some A3000 bezels also. They all came out great. be sure not to ever let the parts float up into the air or you will get stain lines(ask me how i know).
I don't use oxyclean or the paste some suggest.
I have even added distilled water to the peroxide to make up for evaporation and it still worked ok,just a bit slower. The secret i think is the light source and warmth-cold liquid doesn't work well.Texas summers can get to 100f+. UV lighting with the proper wavelength is probably best. To date none of the stuff i whitened has returned to yellow. You can boil peroxide down to make it stronger(DO IT OUTSIDE in a well ventilated place!). I have never needed to do this however.
Stronger peroxides can possibly be found at beauty supply.
Your experience is much like mine - a weak solution and naturally brutal sunlight does the trick :).
I've been retrobriting my Amigas (some) and Macs (mostly) for a bit over 10 years, though I didn't know it as that at the start. I'd had OK results *cleaning* gunk off cases with an oxy bleach - Napisan in Australia - and figured warmth made it work better so I'd soak parts in an old fish tank in the sun.
I've found re-yellowing does occur, but it's on the order of years later. I have an A600 I did in 2009, and it's not noticeably re-yellowed. An early Quadra 605 I did before that has re-yellowed to be more yellow than original mac platinum plastics, but less so than most machines of the era. Another sunlit bath in napisan+water works just fine to fix it.
I never kept accurate records of what all my pieces looked like beforehand, but I'm pretty sure if it was excessively yellowed in the first place then it re-yellows more quickly post-briting. It's like the lifetime of UV exposure that caused the breakdown of brominated flame retardents has left plenty of broken-down bromine within the plastic that's still leaching to the surface. I once had a Mac IIci with a lid that had yellowing displaying the shadow of the monitor that once sat on it. It retrobrited back to an even platinum, but eventually re-yellowed a little to show a lighter version of the same shadow again, despite being in dark storage most of the time post-briting.
In my experience, clear sealing is the *worst* thing I've tried. I gave it a go on the same Mac IIci panel above, after reading about protecting from re-yellowing. I only sprayed the rear part as a test to see if the texture would match, and it wasn't remotely close with the clearcoat I used (Mac plastics seem more matte than others, and the coat was a bit glossier). Unfortunately since the yellowing comes from within the plastic, all I got after retrobriting another time years later was clean platinum plastic where I hadn't clearcoated, but the plastic under the coat stayed yellow.
In the end like mechy, I use a weak solution and strong sun. Just a capfull (maybe 1/4 a coke can of granules) of oxy bleach, dissolved in enough warm water to cover the pieces and left in a shallow bath outside for a day. Southern hemisphere summer sun does the trick. I've tried a more traditional mix of retrobrite as a paste following a european friend's instructions. What worked in the netherlands over a day nuked originally-grey plastic almost white in under 20 minutes, before I'd noticed it was happening.
The nuked Mac. The front panel should be the same colour as the CD tray:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5334905/630s.jpg)
And a Mac keyboard, partly done with a weak solution for contrast:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5334905/partial_clean_s.jpg)
-
You all are gluttons for punishment. All you need to do is try the "paint" I pointed out - or at the very least use semi-gloss or flat clear (Different makes look different as far as the "gloss" is concerned)
I restore Antiques for a living, and in that work I have been spraying finishes for over 30 years. (I also put trick paint jobs on motorcycles and cars - about 30 years worth)
But, if you all would rather play with "retro-brite", knock yourselves out.
-
You all are gluttons for punishment. All you need to do is try the "paint" I pointed out - or at the very least use semi-gloss or flat clear (Different makes look different as far as the "gloss" is concerned)
I restore Antiques for a living, and in that work I have been spraying finishes for over 30 years. (I also put trick paint jobs on motorcycles and cars - about 30 years worth)
But, if you all would rather play with "retro-brite", knock yourselves out.
I agree with you BUT you must admit that it takes alot more skill & patience to pull off a great paint job then to slap on some gunk & let it rest in sunlight for a day ;)
The majority of us guys can tell from a block away if a computer we know so well was painted in any way especially when light reflects off of it so i can understand the hesitation to paint on both counts
-
I agree with you BUT you must admit that it takes alot more skill & patience to pull off a great paint job then to slap on some gunk & let it rest in sunlight for a day ;)
The majority of us guys can tell from a block away if a computer we know so well was painted in any way especially when light reflects off of it so i can understand the hesitation to paint on both counts
I would bet you, you can't tell the painted computer. Also, it's not that hard to get a good paint job with these new, modern spray cans. They do an amazing job.
They even make "spray cans" that you can re-fill the "paint". This means you have the same flexibility as using a spraygun (mixing your own colors).
-
I would bet you, you can't tell the painted computer. Also, it's not that hard to get a good paint job with these new, modern spray cans. They do an amazing job.
They even make "spray cans" that you can re-fill the "paint". This means you have the same flexibility as using a spraygun (mixing your own colors).
well why don't you post a hi res pic of a mint original and a painted miggy to convince us ;)
-
I'm curious about the effect retrobright has on colour screenprinted logos. I'm thinking of using the process on my Sam but don't want to destroy the blue and red logo while I'm doing it.
-
I use adhesive masking tape cut with a hobby knife to protect the logos; all you need to do is make sure the peroxide doesn't get to the colors.