Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ChuckT on November 01, 2014, 06:16:35 PM
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Trevor,
Now that you bought Amiga.org and Amigaworld, how should a past Amiga 500 user see these websites or how should any Amiga user see these websites as his audience as you have put out a different computer that isn't viable for some of us in terms of cost. What I mean is that, how do we fit in since you've changed the landscape of Amiga and how will see see ourselves as Amiga users when you may continue to change the landscape?
How should I see Amiga as X when you have put out Y. How should we see Amiga as X when you are changing the landscape and how will we fit in?
Chuck
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Sorry for my double post. Amiga.org did not respond and there was a database error.
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I'm sure Trevor will be along shortly to allay your fears - but you don't need to worry. You have obviously not seen Trevor's "Classic" Amiga collection. :)
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As Spirantho has mentioned, Trevor is a big Classic fan too with a plethora of working Amiga systems from the A1000 to A4000T.
A-EON is investing in Classic too. The new Prisma MegaMix music card is arriving shortly and there has been an investment recently in PPaint Classic as well as a lot more Classic software.
Hopefully your Classic Amiga hobby will benefit from this :)
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Duplicate Post.
=)
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And also, as you can see, amigaKit is well aware that sometimes people double-post by accident and it's ok. :)
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(http://www.needtagger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/No_FUD.jpg)
Or in other words, Russian proverb: "New is first enemy of old." Somehow I think Amiga users have survived this long since Commodore's demise, they'll survive whatever comes next. Even if they do become a more and more crotchety bunch with each passing year. ;)
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Sorry for my double post.
No problem.
Just enjoy your Amiga passion, whatever form it might take, whether it be Classic, Next-Generation, Emulation or Clones.
TrevorD
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Anybody find it bizarre that the question was addressed to Trevor, yet AmigaKit spoke for him? wtf.
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Anybody find it bizarre that the question was addressed to Trevor, yet AmigaKit spoke for him?
No, not really, @Spiranto answered the question first since it was overnight in New Zealand where I live.
TrevorD
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Russian proverb: "New is first enemy of old."
I just wanna say : for me, old Classics are like old cars : Ok Ferrari is much better, but oldies are still fun too...
So, I hope mentalities will change : destroying old for selling new is a mistake...
Phase5 had always refused to give (not only for me, others guys have asked I know) some CPLD jed files for repair broken cards... Zillions faulty cards were putting in the bin because of this...
Wanna the death of Classics for users moving on PPC is wrong, really...
;)
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there is no "classics". there are just amigas. why must an amiga user call his amiga some other name, like "classics", just because someone else wants to pretend his computer should be called "amiga" is beyond me.
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Well I see it like this:
Phase 1:
[Classic]
Phase 2:
[Classic Amigas with PPC running Amiga OS4.1]
Phase 3:
[PPC Computer running Amiga OS4.1]
NG Amigas are in phase 3 of course.
The advantages being:
- Brand new hardware
- Relatively modern hardware which is much more powerful than what you get in Phase 2
- Relatively affordable when price compared with what a highend Amiga 4000 with PPC fetches
Disadvantage:
- no custom chipsets so you if you want to play Pinball Dreams you have to get the A500 back down from the attic (or get a minimig)
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no custom chipsets so you if you want to play Pinball Dreams you have to get the A500 back down from the attic
I'm sure I can play Pinball Dreams using RunIN UAE on my X1000.
TrevorD
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Another option are NG FPGA Amiga
* Classic chipset - old games work
* brand new hardware
* better performance than Phase 5 Systems
* reasonable priced
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I'm sure I can play Pinball Dreams using RunIN UAE on my X1000.
TrevorD
Yes of course, I was excluding emulation :)
Now if only Acube released an Amiga Core for their Sam series which came with an FPGA. I have a hunch about X5000 :P
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Another option are NG FPGA Amiga
* Classic chipset - old games work
* brand new hardware
* better performance than Phase 5 Systems
* reasonable priced
Yes true, but usually with 'NG' people understand 'PPC', but of course, FPGA are awesome and way better than any emulator!
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Anybody find it bizarre that the question was addressed to Trevor, yet AmigaKit spoke for him? wtf.
No, quite normal.
As you know, the minds of Trevor, AmigaKit, Hyperion and ACube Systems are controlled by aliens who have a space ship located close to the earth. This control was enforced as when they arrived they realized that using the large amiga community around it's fantastic OS and hardware was the pathway to world domination. As ChuckTs question was a possible roadblock in this endeavor they had to react swiftly. As @Spiranto was the guy still awake he was chosen to put this to rest as fast as possible.
The aliens are worried though as such interventions are detractors from their current battle against MOS and AROS.
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there is no "classics". there are just amigas. why must an amiga user call his amiga some other name, like "classics", just because someone else wants to pretend his computer should be called "amiga" is beyond me.
So sadly true.
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No, quite normal.
As you know, the minds of Trevor, AmigaKit, Hyperion and ACube Systems are controlled by aliens who have a space ship located close to the earth. This control was enforced as when they arrived they realized that using the large amiga community around it's fantastic OS and hardware was the pathway to world domination. As ChuckTs question was a possible roadblock in this endeavor they had to react swiftly. As @Spiranto was the guy still awake he was chosen to put this to rest as fast as possible.
The aliens are worried though as such interventions are detractors from their current battle against MOS and AROS.
:laughing:
-- eliyahu
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No, not really, @Spiranto answered the question first since it was overnight in New Zealand where I live.
TrevorD
Huh? It's not bizarre because some other guy dumped a post that didn't answer OP's question (Trevor will answer later is not an answer, and Trevor has a lot of old computers doesn't answer anything either) which was then followed by a response from AmigaKit who half answered for you?
"Trevor has a lot of old computers" and "AmigaKit has new junk for sale in the pipeline" doesn't really address the concern with a lot of folks. It's looking like this place is becoming a heavily moderated, OS4 centric site. The internet already has plenty of those, which explains why the user count of late has been so low.
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It strikes me that the OP would like to be an OS4 user but has a perception that going OS4 is expensive.
The way I look at it, my A500 cost me about £300 back in 1989. Yeah, I got the bare bones system with no software.
Now, going by RPI that same £300 is over £650 in today's money. That is about the price of a SAM system. So it's not really any more expensive than back in the day.
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there it goes again, the memorized line of argumentation. but with a500 one was buying a cutting edge system with a wide software support not a half supported motherboard with no proper branding and almost no unique software of any.
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there it goes again, the memorized line of argumentation. but with a500 one was buying a cutting edge system with a wide software support not a half supported motherboard with no proper branding and almost no unique software of any.
I haven't memorised anything, nor have I to my knowledge used that argument before.
The argument wasn't about software support, but about cost of entry.
But for that matter, which has more software support now? OS4.X or OS 3.X? And which is likely to have the most support in the future?
I'm not arguing it is the same value for money, merely that the cost of entry is very similar.
In actual fact I have only taken account the purchasing power of money and not the earning power of the individual. Many will be earning way more than they did in the late 80s and early 90s. Personally, for that reason the cost of entry now for me is relatively miniscule.
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Comparing it to the price of an Amiga 500 is fair. Some people come here an compare it to an i7 workstation.
A500 was the low spec machine. There wasn't that much software when it was released.
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and "AmigaKit has new junk for sale in the pipeline"
I, for one, can't wait for my next order of "new junk" from AmigaKit. Since shipping to me takes 3-4 weeks I'm waiting until the USB module for the X-Surf 100 becomes available before I pull the trigger on my order for a bunch of fun new toys. Thank god their amount of loyal customers outweighs opinions like this. :bitch:
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"AmigaKit has new junk for sale in the pipeline"
Please elaborate.
What would you prefer then?
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I, for one, can't wait for my next order of "new junk" from AmigaKit. Since shipping to me takes 3-4 weeks I'm waiting until the USB module for the X-Surf 100 becomes available before I pull the trigger on my order for a bunch of fun new toys. Thank god their amount of loyal customers outweighs opinions like this. :bitch:
Loyalty is for chumps. If something is a good deal, you buy it, else move on. I find the concept of loyalty to a retailer almost disgusting. I reserve loyalty for things like my family, my wife, my child, etc. Not a place that trades mugs, stickers, mouse pads and various computer bits and pieces for money. You usually hear the phrase "loyal customer" when someone is whining about how they've been treated...
This is all a distraction though, because it is irrelevant to the the point of the thread. Likewise with focusing on the fact that more crap is coming down the sales pipeline. So what that AmigaKit is going to have more stuff to sling on their web store? That's another website.
This site has changed. In the upper right hand corner of the site, there's a giant square banner of a dude in a shoe styled space ship thing with X1000 rocket propellent thingeys. "TREVOR'S AMIGA BLOG". At least it's not what it was before, that giant picture of Trevor. It links to to the guy's blog. WTF?! Why? And it's focused on all manner of things, but a constant theme is the NG kit he's funded and OS 4, and a heaping dose of linux.
And no offense to Trevor, but I don't care about his blog, that's not why I've been coming here regularly for over a decade. When I saw that blog banner for the first time I thought to myself, "That's the biggest wank piece I've ever seen". I figured it would go down after a while, but it didn't. It's creeped a lot of people out, and it's sent the wrong message.
It used to be that when you'd visit the site, you'd see a column of user contributed images, which featured a lot of classic gear. Now you don't see anything at all. It's gone, unless you log in. Same for the user blogs, and being able to peruse user posts from the user profiles. Bye bye went the search tool too, unless you're logged in.
Imagine what a potential new community member will see when they first visit AO. No cool user gallery previews("Random pics"), no user gallery off the nav menu, and a big ass link to Trevor's blog in the corner. Hopefully there're be something interesting in the news section and recent threads pane. Hope they don't decide to do a search.
That's a real kick in the balls to have to be a registered member to see the galleys. That cuts a huge chunk of soul right out of the website. I probably never would have registered with this site if it wasn't for the picture gallery that caught my interest. There's nothing like seeing the kit you never saw back in the day, seeing other people's projects and desktop screen shots to rope you in.
And finally we've had an issue with a new moderator, that nobody knows, wasn't elected by the community, and of questionable ethics, going bezerk in the forum.
So now, back to part of the original question:
Now that you bought Amiga.org and Amigaworld, how should a past Amiga 500 user see these websites or how should any Amiga user see these websites...
What I mean is that, how do we fit in since you've changed the landscape...
See, answers like "Trevor's got a lot of old computers", and "AmigaKit is going to sling some more stuff" aren't answers. And this is a good question, and it deserves a thoughtful answer.
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Whine, whine, whine. TL;DR.
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@koaftder
AmigaKit and A-Eon are made up of Amiga fans - that's not just NG Amigas, they all have a500s, a1200s, a4000s etc. The fact that AmigaKit are continuing to invest in new products, and continue to support all flavours of Amiga and its derivatives on their forums, I feel demonstrates the answer to the original question much more than just saying "oh yes, we like a500 owners". AmigaKit have actually put their money where their mouth is, and proven a commitment to the Amigas such as the a500.
Serious question: What would you like to see from AmigaKit more than they are doing already?
(incidentally, when I answered the OP, I wasn't speaking for or trying to represent anyone, hence my saying "I'm sure Trevor will be along shortly....". As this was a question sent in a public forum for discussion, and not a PM, I felt it was safe to allay his fears, as I know for an absolute fact that A500 users are quite safe on here, because Trevor himself is a fan).
Edit: in the interest of fairness, it should be pointed out that the moderator you mention has publically apologised for his mistake, and has already reversed his ban.
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@koaftder
AmigaKit and A-Eon are made up of Amiga fans - that's not just NG Amigas, they all have a500s, a1200s, a4000s etc. The fact that AmigaKit are continuing to invest in new products, and continue to support all flavours of Amiga and its derivatives on their forums, I feel demonstrates the answer to the original question much more than just saying "oh yes, we like a500 owners". AmigaKit have actually put their money where their mouth is, and proven a commitment to the Amigas such as the a500.
None of this is really in question. AmigaKit has a good reputation for the reasons you mention above. But pointing this out doesn't really address the question of where this community site is going. And it's important because the user base is evaporating.
Serious question: What would you like to see from AmigaKit more than they are doing already?
But I've already addressed a large chunk of this, regarding the openness of the site to non-registered users, and lurker users who aren't logged in. That and moderation concerns. The former to appeal to old timers looking to get back into the scene and newer blood from the retro scene. The later needs to be addressed to stave off people leaving out of disgust and disinterest.
(incidentally, when I answered the OP, I wasn't speaking for or trying to represent anyone, hence my saying "I'm sure Trevor will be along shortly....". As this was a question sent in a public forum for discussion, and not a PM, I felt it was safe to allay his fears, as I know for an absolute fact that A500 users are quite safe on here, because Trevor himself is a fan).
I get that, and I'm not taking a jab at you, or anyone really. I'm kind of surprised though that Trevor didn't take much of an opportunity to spell out where this place is going. This has always been a heavily classic centric place.
Edit: in the interest of fairness, it should be pointed out that the moderator you mention has publically apologised for his mistake, and has already reversed his ban.
I only recall a somewhat half apology on AWN regarding this one thing I think you're talking about. I don't really want to spend a lot of time on this, but this has just been one incident in a string of unprofessional behavior. It's going to take more than one apology about one thing to fix this kind of damage.
In the future, with new mod posts, I'd like to see someone from the fold, so to speak, get appointed to these kinds of positions, and preferably by a vote from the community. That's a good way to build trust, and it's worked out well in the past.
I'd like to see AmigaKit explain where they want to go with this new mod, and explain to the community their intention with all this and why he's a good fit. If he's a good fit then there must be a reasonable explanation for this. If not, thank the guy for his time, remove his mod status and promote someone from within, preferably via a vote.
The previous owners had good intentions, and generally did a good job as host, but there was some screw ups that hurt the user base. I'd like to see that kind of thing become more rare. As it is right now, it's not really looking that way.
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I'd just like add something. The classic community may be drying up on its own. You have FPGA Amiga on one side and emulators on the other.
The classic hardware will sell if there is a market for it.
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The classic community may be drying up on its own./QUOTE]
you mean water supply may be a problem for them:
http://www.classiccommunities.net/
must be a general north american west coast problem as polanski reffered to in "chinatown".
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The classic community may be drying up on its own.
you mean water supply may be a problem for them:
http://www.classiccommunities.net/
must be a general north american west coast problem as polanski reffered to in "chinatown".
What does this have to do with the topic.
Stay on topic please.
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koaftder >> What "junk" are you talking about?
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koaftder >> What "junk" are you talking about?
he wasn't trying to be insulting or anything. he was just saying that people wouldn't have their concerns allayed (in his view) by announcements that amigakit/A-EON have new products in the pipeline.
@thread
so far this has been a civilized conversation. let's make sure we keep it that way. :)
-- eliyahu
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No, quite normal.
As you know, the minds of Trevor, AmigaKit, Hyperion and ACube Systems are controlled by aliens who have a space ship located close to the earth. This control was enforced as when they arrived they realized that using the large amiga community around it's fantastic OS and hardware was the pathway to world domination. As ChuckTs question was a possible roadblock in this endeavor they had to react swiftly. As @Spiranto was the guy still awake he was chosen to put this to rest as fast as possible.
The aliens are worried though as such interventions are detractors from their current battle against MOS and AROS.
eh, eh! good one! a huge jump ahead compared with the MorphOS Team batcave! (http://www.amiga.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif)
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test
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The fervor of this discussion shows that the Amiga community is not dying off at any particular fast rate; new users are coming aboard while older users are lost by attrition (age, death, and senility -- you know who you are).
Erikson's psychosocial stage of Generativity vs Stagnation is illustrated by the dedication of A-Eon (Trevor) and AmigaKit (Matthew) in promoting not just new products and ideas, but also in fostering a solid web presence in the two web sites. The community remains vibrant with gunslingers taking pot-shots at anything and everything (mostly because it gives them a microsecond rush of feeling superior to everyone else); this is a typical response of someone who needs a better sense of self-worth.
But regardless, it adds to my conclusion that folks out there care about the community that the original Amiga team, 30 years ago, set up using creativity and out-of-the-box thinking to generate a bold concept out of a box of electronic parts.