Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: AmigaOldskooler on October 26, 2014, 09:45:48 AM
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Seems like A-EON and AmigaKit bought Amigaworld.net as well:
http://oldschoolgameblog.com/2014/10/26/a-eon-technology-and-amigakit-buys-amigaworld-net/
Why are they buying another forum besides Amiga.org?
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Seems like A-EON and AmigaKit bought Amigaworld.net as well:
http://oldschoolgameblog.com/2014/10/26/a-eon-technology-and-amigakit-buys-amigaworld-net/
Why are they buying another forum besides Amiga.org?
To merge them.
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Amigans next?
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I personally dont care. If it becomes too much of a pro-company site with too much censorship, I'd just leave and hang out on MorphZone. No way in hell would I join any other site.
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merging the two sites is fine by me. Amiga.org is the grand daddy of all Amiga sites anyhow so growing it's database with AW.net is only a good thing as this way we have classic & NG help in one place instead of keeping 2 accounts
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Amigans next?
I don't think they will do anything to harm the community because they need you since there aren't many of us left. I think they will keep everyone happy but that doesn't mean they won't put their interests first.
I believe hope they wish to make friends and not enemies.
Maybe if they are buying the name brand (domain), it means there is a cheaper Amiga on the horizon and giving them the name makes them the legitimacy and authority on Amiga? It makes them the sole voice.
There really wasn't much room on here anyway for development on other platforms because everyone won't try something new so it isn't like the community is open minded to the DIY movement unless someone is making it for them so given a product, the users will follow anyone which means the makers dictate the rules anyway so there won't be any problem following Amigakit and A-EON. But the future does dictate that you will be following their platform because that may be what is supported here.
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Does anyone know why the sam460 costs so much? I might consider buying one for $500 not including OS4. At $1000 there is little motivation to buy one.
Also the sam440 is underpowered for a low end product.
The new min spec should be dual core 1GHz.
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I personally dont care. If it becomes too much of a pro-company site with too much censorship, I'd just leave and hang out on MorphZone. No way in hell would I join any other site.
+1
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Does anyone know why the sam460 costs so much? I might consider buying one for $500 not including OS4. At $1000 there is little motivation to buy one.
Also the sam440 is underpowered for a low end product.
The new min spec should be dual core 1GHz.
Considering that a mobile phone is much smaller and costs $600 and up, consider it a blessing.
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Does anyone know why the sam460 costs so much? I might consider buying one for $500 not including OS4. At $1000 there is little motivation to buy one.
That's the whole paradox of getting into OS4.X! We all know why the board is expensive. I would agree that the price needs to come down. Disposable cash is one thing, but "rolling the dice" is quit another (I know... loaded statement). Personally, I tend to try to only throw my money at proven products. That's what this forum is supposed to help people determine. IMHO, I think Matt and Trevor will try to eliminate a lot of the FUD that takes place here so that they may serve what the Amiga community wants and allow the Amiga consumer to make the right decisions for themselves.
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http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39471&forum=7&start=120&viewmode=flat&order=0#743115
I'm pleased that our acquisition of AmigaWorld has generated some lively discussion. Actually we acquired Amigaworld.net several months ago. I would like to say that the move was part of some greater plan to support the Amiga community but, in this case, I have to admit it was down to purely sentimental reasons on my part. I have been an active supporter and poster on AmigaWorld since late 2004. I've always had a soft spot for AmigaWord. It was the first Amiga forum I signed up to and it was always my first port of call for all my next-generation Amiga news.
Over the years I got to know David Doyle quite well and even met up him on a flying to Northern Ireland a few years back. I knew that in recent years his Amiga interest had waned so following our acquisition of Amiga.org I let him know that if he was ever thinking about selling AmigaWorld to give me a call as I wanted to make sure the forum did not disappear.
David said he was not intending to sell AmigaWorld.net but if he did, he wanted to make sure it went to a safe pair of hands and would contact me should he ever decide to sell the forum. However, shortly afterwards he contacted me to say that he had discussed the idea with some of his colleagues and they agreed a sale to me would ensure AmigaWorld's long term future. We agreed a price and the deal was done.
We will post an official news item but I wanted to personally thank David for creating and supporting of AmigaWorld and his commitment to the Amiga scenes over the years.
TrevorD
edit: typo]
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I welcome a merger.
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I welcome a merger.
+1
AWN had its course and it is over.
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Which is the goal of buy many amiga forums? i dont see the point and the smell is not good, at my point of view this is not good for "freedom".
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I welcome a merger.
+1 me too
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I welcome a merger.
Naa, I prefer not, I prefer AW.net as it is :) Or sell it to me so I can fix all the site bugs and make some subtle feature additions and trying to keep the peace between the different camps :) I got the coding skills at least ;)
But if they want a merge, that's up them, then...
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@amoskodare
i'm with you on this one. amigadave and i had the opportunity to talk about all of this with trevor and matthew today and the overwhelming feeling i got from them is that they want the sites to be run 'by the members, for the members.' so, no, i really don't think they'd want to merge the sites at all. i'm only a mod here, 'cause i love this site and the folks on it. i kinda want to keep things as-is. :)
in any case i'm sure A-EON will formally announce things shortly once everyone gets home from amiwest (which was great, by the way).
-- eliyahu
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@amoskodare
i'm with you on this one. amigadave and i had the opportunity to talk about all of this with trevor and matthew today and the overwhelming feeling i got from them is that they want the sites to be run 'by the members, for the members.' so, no, i really don't think they'd want to merge the sites at all. i'm only a mod here, 'cause i love this site and the folks on it. i kinda want to keep things as-is. :)
in any case i'm sure A-EON will formally announce things shortly once everyone gets home from amiwest (which was great, by the way).
-- eliyahu
To merge them.
@eliyahu
I'm glad you had a chance to talk to Matt and Trevor about the AWN acquisition... and I'm sure your right about an official announcment... but don't you think Everblue's response was just speculation anyway? I mean, I doubt Trevor would buy AWN just to dispose of it. Probably cost a pretty penny. Plus, I think that if the two sites have different moderators that they will retain their respective flavors and users.
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Thanks Eliyahu.
I'm also on my way home from Amiwest
Although there is definately some crossover, I think that both forums have their own unique feel and flavour. I for one see no reason for a merger of the forrums. I also believe that both community forums should be run by the members for the benefIt of the members.
TrevorD
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I miss ann.lu, sigh :)
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In retrospective, my "to merge them" comment is missing an '?' at the end of it.
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Conspiracy theorists unite! (just kidding)
I just got home after an 8-1/2 hour drive home from the 2014 AmiWest Show in Sacramento, and I am beat, but I wanted to reassure the members of Amiga.org (as well as those of AmigaWorld.net), that there are no grand designs, or ulterior motives, behind the acquisition of Amiga.org and AmigaWorld.net by Trevor and Matthew. I am really tired of reading the accusations by some members, that both Trevor and Matthew are so involved in and tied to AmigaOS4.x & Hyperion that they will censor information, news articles, or member opinions, which favor any other Amiga, or Amiga inspired platform that is NOT AmigaOS4.x and NG related. Anyone who really knows anything about AmigaKit would remember that most of their sales come from Classic Amiga users, and they are not likely to turn their back on those customers, or anger them by supporting only the (fewer numbers of) AmigaOS4.x users on NG hardware. Trevor has supported much more than ONLY AmigaOS4.x projects, and given his enormous collection of every kind of AmigaOS1.x to 3.x, MorphOS, AROS and AmigaOS4.x systems, I expect him to continue his support for all facets of our community long into the future. It is in Trevor's and A-Eon's best interest to encourage the porting of all Amiga inspired operating systems to their hardware, not just AmigaOS4.x, to gain the largest number of customers and users for the future. It is yet to be seen if any of the other operating systems (besides AmigaOS4.x) will be ported to any A-Eon hardware, but if it is not, it won't be from a lack of trying to convince those other platforms on Trevor's part.
After talking with Trevor and Matthew earlier today about both Amiga.org and AmigaWorld.net, it was clear to me that they want both sites to remain in the hands of their respective members and the community at large. Each site has a slightly different primary focus, due to their history and the makeup of their members preferences, but both sites allow the discussion of all parts of the diverse Amiga community. The only changes I have ever heard or read from Trevor or Matthew, is their desire to increase the sense of "friendliness" at both sites, where all members of our community can feel welcome, and no one will feel bullied, or discriminated against. To achieve that goal, some members who have gotten away with bullying, or rude behavior in the past on either site, will be asked to follow the posted Forum Posting Guidelines, or "Cardinal Rules", here at Amiga.org, with special emphasis toward respecting your fellow members and stopping all personal attacks and insults. Members who fail to follow the site rules will be warned and asked to self moderate themselves. Any member who refuses to follow the rules repeatedly, will be warned again and may have their posts which violate the site rules edited by a moderator, if they refuse to edit out any portion of their own posts which a moderator has informed them violates the site rules. Continued violations may lead to further actions by moderators to encourage compliance with the Posting Guidelines & Cardinal Rules, but we are all adults here and that should not be necessary. Respect each other and don't make forum posts personal. Use your common sense when posting, and everyone will get along fine, because believe me when I say that no one wants to moderate what another has written, unless absolutely necessary.
A few members here at Amiga.org have made outrageous accusations and outright rude remarks toward Trevor, Matthew, AmigaKit, and/or A-Eon during these first few months since the acquisition of Amiga.org was announced. At first the "Venting" was allowed, in hopes that it would die down and forum postings would return to normal on their own, but after repeated attempts by a few members to stir up trouble on the forums, finally one or two of them were given temporary posting restrictions after several warnings were ignored. Claims of censorship, or favoritism in approving news items are untrue and unfounded. The primary behavior that is being moderated lately is rude or hateful attacks by a very small minority of vocal members. No matter what false perceptions 2 or 3 members may have been trying to promote about Amiga.org's new owners and their motivations, I know from personal experience with both Trevor and Matthew, that their intentions are for the good of all community members. They are not aimed at only one part of the Amiga Universe, at the expense of all other parts and members of the community. Anyone using their own common sense should be able to understand and see that for themselves, but a few people appear to have their own agenda and reasons for spreading false rumors and accusations. I hope that most of the community can see through those transparent attempts to stir up trouble, and ignore them for the useless posts that they are.
Trevor and Matthew are good people trying to do what they think is best to support all sides of the remaining Amiga community. You may disagree with their decisions on how to best go about supporting the community (I don't always agree with everything that they decide to do), but if you are truly objective, I would hope you can at least admit that their intentions are to be helpful, even if you yourself might have chosen different methods on how to best support the Amiga community.
I feel that one of the best things about Trevor and Matthew are that they both listen to Amiga users and they are willing to invest their time and money into this community. If you don't agree with what they are doing, write to them and provide your point of view on what things they can do to make this community better, but don't be angry if they make different choices than you would have made. After all, it is their time and money that they are investing. Be thankful that they welcome feedback and suggestions, and that they listen and care about what happens to this niche community and remember that both Trevor and Matthew support all parts of our community, not just AmigaOS4.x and NG hardware, even though they have invested a very large sum of money and time into those two parts.
Forgive the long post, but I felt I had been mostly silent long enough, and needed to clarify a few misconceptions, plus I wanted to reassure members that this is still their site, and we only want to make it better and friendlier.
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Conspiracy theorists unite! (just kidding)
Read this and keep your jokes to yourself (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39478&forum=2&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0). Apparently, the thought police arrived on a.org. For real.
After talking with Trevor and Matthew earlier today about both Amiga.org and AmigaWorld.net, it was clear to me that they want both sites to remain in the hands of their respective members and the community at large.
Then, maybe, you could ask them why the first thing they did was to appoint a moderator that has zero connections with the Amiga community and apparently no idea about moderating a forum? A moderator that wreaks havoc to this site in a way that makes DFX's or Mikey_C's moderating styles look somewhat sane? Why is this guy here, and why is he so out of control?
I'll tell you what kind of answers you'll get: "We missed that", "it was a honest mistake", "we're still learning". There's only so many times you can use this excuse until it's no longer credible, you know.
(Disclaimer: Yes, Kjmann, I'm talking about you. I'm disagreeing with your moderation decisions in public. Learn to deal with it. And I assure you, I have tons of very dark thoughts regarding Amigakit, A-EON and you.)
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@cg
the word is, this may be excused since the guy is originally atari user, i hear ;)
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Then, maybe, you could ask them why the first thing they did was to appoint a moderator that has zero connections with the Amiga community and apparently no idea about moderating a forum? A moderator that wreaks havoc to this site in a way that makes DFX's or Mikey_C's moderating styles look somewhat sane? Why is this guy here, and why is he so out of control?
Just because I haven't been on this forum since I first purchased my original A500 in 1989, I guess in your book that means I know nothing about the Amiga. I have been active in the Local Amiga community where I live for several years. I have come up with some hardware for the Amiga and games for the Atari XL 8-bit computers. Matthew is well aware of my credentials. I'm sorry if you don't like my moderation style, but I take a very no nonsense attitude toward people who just like to "stir the pot" so to speak.
I'll tell you what kind of answers you'll get: "We missed that", "it was a honest mistake", "we're still learning". There's only so many times you can use this excuse until it's no longer credible, you know.
Once again, Matthew is well aware of my credentials.
(Disclaimer: Yes, Kjmann, I'm talking about you. I'm disagreeing with your moderation decisions in public. Learn to deal with it. And I assure you, I have tons of very dark thoughts regarding Amigakit, A-EON and you.)
Quite frankly, I don't care either way what you think of me. you're entitled to your opinion and since this is directed at me I'll let another moderator deal with it if they think it violates the TOS of A.org. after all, I trust their judgement.
=)
Nuff Said.
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I am really grateful that we have people like Trevor and Matthew. Super grateful! I went to Amiwest on Saturday and spoke with the folks and they are awesome top notch people. I was just thinking how lucky we are to still have Amigakit. I think about the days when I would choose between buying my latest Amiga game from Software Select (a local chain store in our local shopping mall) or Applied Computer Systems (a real Amiga store we used to have in Sacramento), or Safe Harbor, or Software hut. Now All those retailers are gone but thankfully we have AmigaKit. I know nobody is making a great living off Amiga stuff anymore, so the few companies that do this out of love for for our machines are like heroes to me and I think we should be treating them like heroes.
Having those companies owning our amiga boards is not like Big Brother censorship, its more like we are soccer players and we just got a paid sponsor. We should be super excited someone is putting money into our beloved hobby.
And in terms of who is moderating the site; I say big deal. Employees always complain when a company brings in a new manager who wasn't with the company for a long time. But just like that situation sometimes it is better to have someone from the outside who isn't on anyone's side, or camp, who doesn't have history with anyone, or hard feelings or a beef with anyone in charge. He can be more objective more often than not.
I accept that my opinion on this issue may be completely the opposite of some others, but I just wanted to voice my respect and appreciation for the companies in question for what they are doing for the whole Amiga community. I want them to hear it, because if I was one of those companies shelling out money and time trying to make a positive impact on a small niche community and then I read a bunch of negative responses I would be kind of disheartened. So I want them to know there are those amongst us that are super grateful!
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Great news! :)
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Read this and keep your jokes to yourself (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39478&forum=2&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0). Apparently, the thought police arrived on a.org. For real.
Then, maybe, you could ask them why the first thing they did was to appoint a moderator that has zero connections with the Amiga community and apparently no idea about moderating a forum? A moderator that wreaks havoc to this site in a way that makes DFX's or Mikey_C's moderating styles look somewhat sane? Why is this guy here, and why is he so out of control?
I'll tell you what kind of answers you'll get: "We missed that", "it was a honest mistake", "we're still learning". There's only so many times you can use this excuse until it's no longer credible, you know.
(Disclaimer: Yes, Kjmann, I'm talking about you. I'm disagreeing with your moderation decisions in public. Learn to deal with it. And I assure you, I have tons of very dark thoughts regarding Amigakit, A-EON and you.)
I see that the name of this site is AMIGA dot org!
Not the "dark thoughts" site.
If you want a different site. Put your money where your mouth is and set up your own site.
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kjmann should step down as mod. No offense, but his way of going about things just isn't a good match for this place, neither for the current user base or the reputation of AmigaKit/Aeon. I think the current mods got it handled, but if that's not the case, why not promote a regular everybody knows and respects to the spot?
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@ dschallock
+ 1,000,000 & very well said:hammer: It's sad that unfortunately the loudest here are the trolls & naysayers that fortunately don't have a voice on other more strictly moderated Amiga forums. If only they spent their time doing something positive for their preferred OS of choice rather than making fools of themselves by mocking other peoples work & investments but alas that advice has been handed to them time & time again so I woudn't hold your breath friend until moderation here gets serious about making it 'a more friendlier place'
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@thread
just a friendly reminder that discussions on specific moderator actions taken are best handled on our dedicated feedback forum (http://www.amiga.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) or via PM. thanks!
-- eliyahu
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I am really grateful that we have people like Trevor and Matthew. Super grateful! I went to Amiwest on Saturday and spoke with the folks and they are awesome top notch people. I was just thinking how lucky we are to still have Amigakit. I think about the days when I would choose between buying my latest Amiga game from Software Select (a local chain store in our local shopping mall) or Applied Computer Systems (a real Amiga store we used to have in Sacramento), or Safe Harbor, or Software hut. Now All those retailers are gone but thankfully we have AmigaKit. I know nobody is making a great living off Amiga stuff anymore, so the few companies that do this out of love for for our machines are like heroes to me and I think we should be treating them like heroes.
Having those companies owning our amiga boards is not like Big Brother censorship, its more like we are soccer players and we just got a paid sponsor. We should be super excited someone is putting money into our beloved hobby.
And in terms of who is moderating the site; I say big deal. Employees always complain when a company brings in a new manager who wasn't with the company for a long time. But just like that situation sometimes it is better to have someone from the outside who isn't on anyone's side, or camp, who doesn't have history with anyone, or hard feelings or a beef with anyone in charge. He can be more objective more often than not.
I accept that my opinion on this issue may be completely the opposite of some others, but I just wanted to voice my respect and appreciation for the companies in question for what they are doing for the whole Amiga community. I want them to hear it, because if I was one of those companies shelling out money and time trying to make a positive impact on a small niche community and then I read a bunch of negative responses I would be kind of disheartened. So I want them to know there are those amongst us that are super grateful!
What a great post! Moderation has got to be one of the most difficult, unrewarding jobs in our community (outside of trying to be a referee at roller derby, haha). These folks work hard to make our community a great place and are constantly berated and attacked. I think it would make just about any reasonable person throw up their hands and walk away, yet they keep at it. Kudos for their hard work, and +1 to Matthew & Trevor continuing to support this argumentative, back-biting platform we all know and love, lol. :)
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What a great post! Moderation has got to be one of the most difficult, unrewarding jobs in our community (outside of trying to be a referee at roller derby, haha). These folks work hard to make our community a great place and are constantly berated and attacked. I think it would make just about any reasonable person throw up their hands and walk away, yet they keep at it. Kudos for their hard work, and +1 to Matthew & Trevor continuing to support this argumentative, back-biting platform we all know and love, lol. :)
Yeah it tough job. A lot of people complain about moderators. none of them have had the experience.
I have done it for gaming forum. Even done banners for events. (not the one on top of the page of Vbulletin forum.) But I didn't really have the time. Mostly I have busy being running my parents store.
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@cgutjahr
If you want a different site. Put your money where your mouth is and set up your own site.
LOL (http://www.amiga-news.de/standard/)
SCNR ;-)
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LOL (http://www.amiga-news.de/standard/)
SCNR ;-)
He might be too busy...
Here (http://wiki.aminet.net/Internal:Moderation_TimeLine)
We can discuss the other sites later. heh.
#6
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If you want a different site. Put your money where your mouth is and set up your own site.
you may have heard of aminet an amiga-news.de cg and senex are maintaining? its not a site just some twenty people are visiting but an esential attribute to whole amiga community, the biggest repository of amiga and its derivates software, no matter if it is mos, aros or os4..
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What a great post! Moderation has got to be one of the most difficult, unrewarding jobs in our community
so you dont need to pick up this opportunity just to show off, right? there were good and respected mods around here too, take karlos as example. not a match for someone like kjmann or the like.
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@thread
just a friendly reminder that discussions on specific moderator actions taken are best handled on our dedicated feedback forum (http://www.amiga.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) or via PM. thanks!
-- eliyahu
yes, sweep it under the rug, thx.
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so you dont need to pick up this opportunity just to show off, right? there were good and respected mods around here too, take karlos as example. not a match for someone like kjmann or the like.
Not sure why you quoted my post or what you're trying to say here, but I've been a member of this community for over 10 years and never had a single problem with moderation. If anything, it's a little too light-handed, allowing people to get away with all kinds of insults and bashing that make me cringe. There's got to be some balance between too little and too much (i.e., Amibay). It's a fine line to walk.
I think the other person was trying to say above (before it linked off to some non-English forum), was "don't like it? Go start your own site". ;)
But this thread is way off-topic now, too. Wouldn't mind some mods stepping in to fix that, haha. ;)
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Not sure why you quoted my post or what you're trying to say here
quite obvious. since you are reffering to how difficult moderation is, then im pointing to whom did it right for years on this very site.
I think the other person was trying to say above (before it linked off to some non-English forum), was "don't like it? Go start your own site". ;)
a-news has an english version:
http://amiga-news.de/en/
and if you are complaining that aminet is maintained from germany, then why dont you open own mirror and take care of it?
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Does it matter why?
We can always keep buying new Domains with AMIGA in the URL.
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Does it matter why?
We can always keep buying new Domains with AMIGA in the URL.
Who is "we"?
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Anyone that is against the buying of Forums.
Feel free to start your own they can't buy them all can they?
Who is "we"?
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Anyone that is against the buying of Forums.
Feel free to start your own they can't buy them all can they?
They should not.
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and if you are complaining that aminet is maintained from germany, then why dont you open own mirror and take care of it?
I have no idea what you're even talking about here anymore.
(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/sheklhs/280410_150628040.jpg)
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I really really wish there was a "like" button in this forum cuse' Mike, I give you twelve right now. :roflmao:
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@wawrzon
Dont waste your time... this is a bunch of "friends" with a moderation team givin the reason together and laughing his own jokes. If you dont follow this way... ban.
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I have no idea what you're even talking about here anymore.
(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/sheklhs/280410_150628040.jpg)
may come from watching slapstick tv.
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All kidding aside, play nice. Stop purposely misquoting what others are saying just for the sake of hearing your own voice. All you are doing is bringing the site down, bogging the Mods with superficial crap and making everything all around less enjoyable.
If you want to be miserable, fine, be miserable, but we don't have to let you drag the rest of us down to your level.
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@ kjmann
Are you Doomy in disguise and can I claim my five pounds?
(Just kidding - I saw Oregon and made the connection in my head).
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If you don't like the venue, create your own. Pretty easy concept in the end.
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@ kjmann
Are you Doomy in disguise and can I claim my five pounds?
(Just kidding - I saw Oregon and made the connection in my head).
Funny. =)
I know Doommaster George Personally and he is one of the worst people I have ever had the misfortune to meet. He only lives 15 miles from me. His name "George Hans Campbell" is well known here. He avoids all conventions, Expos and User group meetings because if he showed up, there would be several hundred people waiting in a lynch mob (Pitchforks, Torches and all) to take their shot at him. I've seen his posts over the years and he is a perfect example of someone that is just plain toxic to a online forum/community.
As I stated at AW. I was too harsh in my action with Itix and Reversed his ban. Although I'm getting just a bit tired of all the BS going on in the forums. Yes, I'm been an Amiga and Atari 8-bit user for many years and yes, one of the reasons that I was given the position of moderator is because I'm not acquainted with anyone here specifically (I've never even met Matthew or Trevor personally). I have observed and occasionally read some forum posts here over the years, but I have no "Side" That I am on. I just call them like I see them.
I did read some past posts from some people in question here from the last year or two and I see a pattern of bad behavior from a select few people. In my opinion, these few need to be watched a little closer because they seem to have a habit of "Stirring the pot" just to get peoples reactions.
I Do think this is a good community overall and I think I will enjoy being part of it. I look forward to continuing to work with this forum and meet new people, but I won't be manipulated, strong armed, or detoured into changing my opinions in any way.
That is why I'm here and that is why I take such a hard nosed attitude toward some of this garbage.
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Funny. =)
That is why I'm here and that is why I take such a hard nosed attitude toward some of this garbage.
moderator or not, calling others "garbage" may be a little offending, as you may imagine, or even against the tos you are supposed to guard.
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Is one man's garbage another man's democracy (First Amendment)?
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moderator or not, calling others "garbage" may be a little offending, as you may imagine, or even against the tos you are supposed to guard.
Guilty Conscience?
Garbage refers to Certain activities/Mud Slinging that has been going on on this forum. not People.
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Guilty Conscience?
if you pass a judgement upon what seems to you a guilty conscience then everybody in the world will be guilty but you.
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Funny. =)
I know Doommaster George Personally and he is one of the worst people I have ever had the misfortune to meet. He only lives 15 miles from me. His name "George Hans Campbell" is well known here. He avoids all conventions, Expos and User group meetings because if he showed up, there would be several hundred people waiting in a lynch mob (Pitchforks, Torches and all) to take their shot at him. I've seen his posts over the years and he is a perfect example of someone that is just plain toxic to a online forum/community.
As I stated at AW. I was too harsh in my action with Itix and Reversed his ban. Although I'm getting just a bit tired of all the BS going on in the forums. Yes, I'm been an Amiga and Atari 8-bit user for many years and yes, one of the reasons that I was given the position of moderator is because I'm not acquainted with anyone here specifically (I've never even met Matthew or Trevor personally). I have observed and occasionally read some forum posts here over the years, but I have no "Side" That I am on. I just call them like I see them.
I did read some past posts from some people in question here from the last year or two and I see a pattern of bad behavior from a select few people. In my opinion, these few need to be watched a little closer because they seem to have a habit of "Stirring the pot" just to get peoples reactions.
I Do think this is a good community overall and I think I will enjoy being part of it. I look forward to continuing to work with this forum and meet new people, but I won't be manipulated, strong armed, or detoured into changing my opinions in any way.
That is why I'm here and that is why I take such a hard nosed attitude toward some of this garbage.
The post of shame.
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moderator or not, calling others "garbage" may be a little offending, as you may imagine, or even against the tos you are supposed to guard.
He did not call other members here garbage, he wrote "this garbage", and your post is a perfect example of misquoting, or creating misconceptions about other members or moderators.
kjmann has admitted that he over reacted and has reversed the ban on itix. Please accept his admission of making a mistake and move forward, instead of harboring bad feelings about this moderator and trying to discredit him every chance you get. Constructive criticism is helpful and should be done via PM to kjmann, or if you prefer, contact another moderator with any of your complaints about any moderator behavior, again through PM or email, not on the forums.
Trevor's only request for changes to this forum site was that he wants it to be a more friendly place for all users of any Amiga, or Amiga inspired system to visit and discuss what ever they like, without any bullying, or constant off topic distractions and personal attacks. All staff members are involved in behind the scenes discussions on how to best achieve Trevor's goal to make this place more friendly and welcoming to everyone. Members who have difficulty in expressing differences of opinions without resorting to insults and personal attacks, or members who regularly disrupt threads by interjecting off topic rants, will likely get the attention of moderators more often in the future. I invite all members to send staff their suggestions on how to make the forums here a more friendly and welcoming place for all members and visitors. After all, this is your site.
All other accusations about Trevor's, or Matthew's intentions regarding acquiring this site, or AmigaWorld.net are unfounded and untrue misconceptions, or twisted, out of context quotes.
Please wait to pass judgement on the moderation policies here until after we have had a chance to complete all discussions, proposed changes to moderator actions and put in place a structure for documentation of the history of all future moderator actions, as well as a little additional time so moderator training can be completed. This may take an additional 2 to 3 weeks from now, as everyone is busy with real life, and we don't all spend the majority of our time on this site. If you are sincere about helping, or if you care about what happens to this site, then get involved by providing your feedback and suggestions on how you think moderation should be done by sending me or any other staff member here a PM or email. I would be happy to read any suggestions you care to share.
Your patience and cooperation is appreciated.
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LOL (http://www.amiga-news.de/standard/)
SCNR ;-)
Thanks for the link: amiga news dot de, I never saw it, till now. What about it?
Here's what I read from that site....
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Netiquette
Be fair, stay authentic (true to yourself), tell others your opinion, but try not to hurt anybody with your words and keep others from taking benefit from the interactive area.
Please consider that you are personally responsible for the contents of your contribution."
Purpose of the Netiquette
The amiga-news.de editorial staff developed this netiquette to create an environment where as many readers as possible can express their opinion about the relative subject in an uncomplicated and respectful manner, without personal attacks, the spreading of illegal contents or any other nuisance disturbing this environment. This way as many users as possible read the articles and also may create their own contents.
To achieve this goal amiga-news.de puts its faith in the users, who will help actively through their attitude and manner to sustain this environment, and avoid the abuse of the offered liberties, e.g. anonymous access to the comments.
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not have sexist, racist, anti-Semitic or neo-Naziistic contents.
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not contain defamation.
add something sensible or entertaining to the discussion, may it be a question, an answer or an opinion about the subject.
stick to the subject and not be off topic. In the comments section the subject is given by the contents of the announcement or article. The subject of forum posts is given by the corresponding board (e.g. programming) and the first post to a thread.
not spread lies or disregard this netiquette.
not support software pirating or other illegal actions.
use German or English language, as we would be unable to verify the content otherwise.
not contain advertising. This also implies that employees of companies will sign their post by their own name and not by the company's name to avoid surreptitious advertising.
Links to auctions (eBay and so on) are not welcome and will be deleted without delay.
Editorial staff censorship
If the rules of the netiquette get violoated, amiga-news.de editorial staff reserves the right to delete articles partly or completely.
Amiga-news.de editorial staff considers the netiquette not as strict rules but as fundamental rules, that are designed to keep up a communication friendly environment and not to examine each and every article for violations of the netiquette.
Instead, amiga-news.de editorial staff hopes that everybody respects the netiquette and that users do not take occasional violations of the rules as a reason to violate the netiquette themselves and thus avoid additional abusive articles in the interactive section.
Amiga-news.de editorial staff tries, through it's granted possibilities, to avoid the abuse of the offered possibilities and that users, who do respect the netiquette, are not swamped out of the interactive sections by those who do not.
Comments section
Comments section is available for reading and posting without registration, additionally it is possible to login if you have created an account in our forums. Registered users will be marked as such.
If you think that a posting violates our posting guidelines you may notify the staff about this particular message by invoking the "Notify staff about this message" button. A moderator will check the posting and remove it if neccessary.
Comments section is available for postings that are in direct relation to the subject of the respective announcement or article. These posts may contain:
Constructive criticism
Relevant feedback
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Never ceases to amaze. We don't all know what you know.
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you may have heard of aminet an amiga-news.de cg and senex are maintaining? its not a site just some twenty people are visiting but an esential attribute to whole amiga community, the biggest repository of amiga and its derivates software, no matter if it is mos, aros or os4..
Doesn't excuse "dark thoughts"
or rudeness like "get used to it"
of course I've heard of Aminet....never heard of amiga news
I think the mods should stop the rudeness.
I like Amiga, I help Amiga people keep Amigas going.
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...In my opinion, these few need to be watched a little closer because they seem to have a habit of "Stirring the pot" just to get peoples reactions...
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3260398/i-m-watching-you-o.gif)
When I read this post it reminded me of this...
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Thanks for the link: amiga news dot de, I never saw it, till now.
That had been obvious. ;-) I hope you don't resent me for the previous comment, but given that Christoph indeed has been putting his money (and way more time) into an own website, the suggestion was just too funny to resist, sorry.
What about it?
As you've read meanwhile, Christoph is the only moderator left at Aminet (thank you, number6, for the impressive link) and co-owner of amiga-news.de (http://www.amiga-news.de/en/standard/).
amiga-news.de used to be the most-visited amiga news-site once, according to Christian Kemp (ANN.lu), followed by Amiga.org and ANN back then. Just that our english forum (http://www.amiga-news.de/forum/en/board.php?id=16), unfortunately, isn't used that often, to put it mildly. ;-)
We can always keep buying new Domains with AMIGA in the URL.
Sure, but without sufficient inducement for a concerted action (like the exodus to AWN back then), any new forum will stay without users and thus useless. There are many examples online, see our own one mentioned above. Sure, it's old and thus not as comfortable as today's installed-in-5-minutes forum software packages, but here "the cat bites its own tail" (a German saying): without demand for a modernized english forum at amiga-news.de, there is little incentive for the amiga-news.de team to invest even more of their spare time to establish such an "update".
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That had been obvious. ;-) I hope you don't resent me for the previous comment, but given that Christoph indeed has been putting his money (and way more time) into an own website, the suggestion was just too funny to resist, sorry.
As you've read meanwhile, Christoph is the only moderator left at Aminet (thank you, number6, for the impressive link) and co-owner of amiga-news.de (http://www.amiga-news.de/en/standard/).
amiga-news.de used to be the most-visited amiga news-site once, according to Christian Kemp (ANN.lu), followed by Amiga.org and ANN back then. Just that our english forum (http://www.amiga-news.de/forum/en/board.php?id=16), unfortunately, isn't used that often, to put it mildly. ;-)
Sure, but without sufficient inducement for a concerted action (like the exodus to AWN back then), any new forum will stay without users and thus useless. There are many examples online, see our own one mentioned above. Sure, it's old and thus not as comfortable as today's installed-in-5-minutes forum software packages, but here "the cat bites its own tail" (a German saying): without demand for a modernized english forum at amiga-news.de, there is little incentive for the amiga-news.de team to invest even more of their spare time to establish such an "update".
It's also obvious I don't know the man. But I thank him for his service with Aminet.
I refer amiga folks to use it every month. I own the entire cd set.
But, "very dark thoughts" and "get used to it" feel like threats, Too scary for me!
I also don't know you and your post could have been more informative...
but I got the "SCNR" so no resentments.
If Christoph has these knowledge and his "net rules" seen reasonable, why did he say those things?
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I think the mods should stop the rudeness.
Then they should start with themselves.
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I'm going to step out and defend the moderators of this site as they seem very reasonable with what isn't tolerated. Moderators get too many of the patronising little children who simply can't accept others opinions. Props to Trevor and Matt at AmigaKit. If you have a problem with how the site is run, go somewhere else, we won't miss you.
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I'm going to step out and defend the moderators of this site as they seem very reasonable with what isn't tolerated. Moderators get too many of the patronising little children who simply can't accept others opinions. Props to Trevor and Matt at AmigaKit. If you have a problem with how the site is run, go somewhere else, we won't miss you.
That's the elitist spirit we need! Different opinion = just go away, right? I've been lurking about this site and have noticed also tightening moderation, deleted posts, increasing bans and sort. This seems not the way to do things IMO, no sir!
We need the "pot stirrers" and different opinions also, it can't be a one-way street...
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Are some people being deliberately rebellious because this is an NG Amiga site now?
They won't be able to criticise new systems which they liked doing?
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The problem is not opinions, different or same. Opinions do not produce software, drivers, arts, musics, hardware...
I see 3 kinds of people here, the one who show the money and produce real products in this very little Amiverse, those who buy them and enjoy their journey, the last one will always complain because they don't have better thing to do or maybe don't know what to do to "exist" elsewhere.
Kamelito
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He did not call other members here garbage, he wrote "this garbage", and your post is a perfect example of misquoting, or creating misconceptions about other members or moderators.
+1
Exactly as you describe here, I am so sick of "this garbage". ;)
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@thread
i know i'm probably poking at the hornet's nest, but....
basically i don't care if you love classics, hate classics, love OS4, hate OS4, love MOS, hate MOS, etc., etc. the opinion doesn't matter. i want there to be differing opinions, arguments, and the like. that's what a forum is supposed to be all about. the issue isn't about the content of a post, but the tone and intent. for example:
1. AOS4 developers are all wankers!
2. AOS4 developers really should have focused on gallium3D instead of warp3D. MOS has better 3D, frankly
#1 is a problem. #2 is not. or, let's try this one:
1. any idiot can see MOS should be ported to ARM
2. i really think MOS should be ported to ARM; AROS is, after all.
again, see the difference? the issue is the insulting language. real 'trolling' is fairly rare, but we know it when we see it. if you're posting something transparently designed to upset people without actually having anything otherwise constructive to say, that's trolling. disagreeing with someone and explaining why is not trolling.
and, yes, moderators make mistakes. and when we do, we want you to point that out. but because arguments over moderation tend to blow up threads, we ask that you do so via PM or on the moderation forum. it's not to 'sweep things under the rug,' but to make sure we don't miss your feedback and to ensure threads don't get derailed. that's all.
lastly -- i'm not a moderator here to squash opinions or serve as a corporate puppet. that's not my personality. i just want to make this a fun place again. that's all. it takes up time i don't really have because i really enjoy amiga.org and, more importantly, all of the friends i've made here over the years. i want to make sure -- whomever is the owner -- that it remains a great place to talk about amigas.
-- eliyahu
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I'm not saying that it should be one-way. Rather than providing unconstructive and baseless criticism, everyone should maintain a minimum of respect for the people in charge, and any criticism of how the site is run should be handled in a professional and nonconfrontational manner. Instead of using a "you" statement, use an "I" statement. Example with an actual criticism I have of people on here:
Unconstructive "you" statement:
"All you anti-POWER architecture users should stick to AROS if you want x86 AmigaOS and stop squeaking at the OS4 and MorphOS crowds!"
Constructive "I" statement:
"I disagree with those who deny the hard work of Hyperion and MorphOS developers to provide NG Amiga platforms by saying it should be on x86. Instead of directing how developers should spend their time and criticising design choices, they should offer their own skills as developers to the AROS project, which targets x86 development, or else contribute money to that project to better it."
Considering the fact that this patronising tone in the first example is practiced by many people on this forum, and that more time is spent arguing on things rather than offering anything constructive, Im surprised the banhammer isn't more widely used. Don't be a jerk, be constructive.
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@epollodiabl
Are some people being deliberately rebellious because this is an NG Amiga site now?
is it? how does that show?
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@thread
ok, that's it. enough slagging off on some of the moderators. it stops now. please remember that our policy (http://www.amiga.org/index.php?pageid=moderation_policy) here specifies that posts which defame amiga.org or its staff is subject to immediate editing and/or deletion. and before anyone suggests this is due to new management, this has been the policy for years and years.
so, this is a formal warning: any further insults, veiled or otherwise, towards moderators will earn infractions. repeated ignoring of this warning gets you a temporary holiday from the site. sorry to sound so strident, but, honestly, this is getting ridiculous.
-- eliyahu
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@thread
ok, that's it. enough slagging off on some of the moderators. it stops now. please remember that our policy (http://www.amiga.org/index.php?pageid=moderation_policy) here specifies that posts which defame amiga.org or its staff is subject to immediate editing and/or deletion. and before anyone suggests this is due to new management, this has been the policy for years and years.
so, this is a formal warning: any further insults, veiled or otherwise, towards moderators will earn infractions. repeated ignoring of this warning gets you a temporary holiday from the site. sorry to sound so strident, but, honestly, this is getting ridiculous.
-- eliyahu
If you want to get technical. Rules state not to question moderation. However it also states we are allowed to criticize ideas.
Remember you're in public
Feel free to publicly criticize ideas. If you have a personal comment to or about someone, we don't need to hear it. It doesn't concern us. Take personal items to e-mail. All posts as comments or to the forums are subject to the Moderation Policy.
The idea of picking out people one doesn't agree with for heavy handed moderation IMHO is insane.
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See?!?!?!
Guys, if you see me posting about "settling down" or anything like that, you should really REALLY do it. I'm trying to keep people from going too far so we mods DON'T have to hand out infractions...
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I wish some of the folks who cry about "heavy handed moderation" would go try out AmiBay. And I like that site! But some of the rules are crazy. Have fun! ;)
...you know, for an amusing Google search, put in "heavy handed moderation". The list of sites with users complaining about it ranges from one of my personal favorites, ubuntuforums.org, all the way to "spanishdict.com". Seems this has been a complaint since the beginning of the Interwebs. Maybe people who don't like it could always just turn off their computers and go outside! ;)
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@Terminillis: If we got technical then most of the members would have one kind of infraction on them or another.
People are more then capable to voice their opinion without being demeaning, crass, vengeful, etc. It is when they choose to voice their minds in these negative ways that we step in. Sometimes it is before actual TOS rules are crossed becuase we try to steer people away from crossing that line. But ultimately it is up to the member to decide if he/she wants to be civil. And it is when they choose not to be civil that we take appropriate action.
Oh, and your little slam about how Mods should be the first to clean up their rudeness is a libelous, generalized snipe of a statement that breaks TOS.
To generalize all the mods as being the same and rude is in itself very rude. In fact I would go so far as to say you took that quote and totally validated the posters feelings by using it in your reply.
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This is all crazy, absolute madness.
What is point of banning/editing/deleting everyones personal views???
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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This is all crazy, absolute madness.
What is point of banning/editing/deleting everyones personal views???
*sigh*
no one deletes or edits people's personal views. please re-read my post (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=775975&postcount=70) for what gets moderated and why.
-- eliyahu
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I miss ann.lu, sigh :)
I SOO Second that. :-P
And cu amiga, and awd, and... well, we have the future to look to. and my soon to become Amiga X1000 :-)
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Sadly some people want to jump to conclusions. They waste their time judging A-EON Technology, Amigakit, and the moderators.
I have seen nothing wrong with the moderators. They nice people from what I have seen so far. Don't forget without a Tech this forum would not be running smooth.
People need to realize that without moderators there would be chaos on the forums. They keep people in line.
Rules are rules. The rules are there to make the forum run as smooth as possible. It better to think about what your saying than to cause problems.
I have walked a mile in their shoes. I was board-member (same as a moderator. I could edit post. Also had to watch the forums.) on a gaming site that died a couple years after I step down. I help out on another gaming site as super moderator from Jan to March. (real life happened.) I was lucky not to have to give any infractions during that time. It was a very challenging job.
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If the tone and intent apply to members who post, should it not apply to all? An angry post with inflammatory rhetoric is wrong regardless whether the writer is a member or someone else, or is this not correct?
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If the tone and intent apply to members who post, should it not apply to all? An angry post with inflammatory rhetoric is wrong regardless whether the writer is a member or someone else, or is this not correct?
you're correct. the rules apply to all posters.
-- eliyahu
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What really surprises me is that most users are 30+ years. Moderation should not really be an issue among adults.
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Considering I'm below the median age of Amiga users ( I'm in my mid-20s, and didn't know about it till around 2005 or so when I was still a teen ) and I generally act with a general politeness, I would expect people older than me to do the same. Yssing brings up a good point.
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Actually for the last few weeks, the majority of Amiga.org discussions have been good and I have enjoyed reading the lots of friendly Amiga threads, as it should be, and long may it continue :)
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Considering I'm below the median age of Amiga users ( I'm in my mid-20s, and didn't know about it till around 2005 or so when I was still a teen ) and I generally act with a general politeness, I would expect people older than me to do the same. Yssing brings up a good point.
Oops! I started a programming class in High School in 1974 using punch cards; maybe that is why I need to shut the fornicate up?
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Oops! I started a programming class in High School in 1974 using punch cards
Oh, so you are just a mere youngster? ;-)
Ah punchcards, I remember them well.
TrevorD
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Too young to remember punch cards but old enough to know the origin of "Bug in the system". :roflmao: