Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: kamelito on October 17, 2014, 11:08:55 PM
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@AmigaKit/Trevor,
Since it's difficult to develop new software that are commercially attractive at least to new users wouldn't it be simpler and faster to buy well known Amiga software source code to port them ? (they could be improved in a 2nd phase).
Any plan regarding this?
It has been proven to be possible for example regarding Dopus Magellan II.
Regards
Kamelito
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Watch this space.
I addition to developing AMIStore, we have been talking to developers for the last 6 months and negotiating deals for new content and also popular older Amiga software with a view on modernising it and developing it further. We realise that Amiga users like their favourite classic applications and would like to see them enhanced to run on new hardware. As we conclude deals, we will publish the news here.
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Watch this space.
I addition to developing AMIStore, we have been talking to developers for the last 6 months and negotiating deals for new content and also popular older Amiga software with a view on modernising it and developing it further. We realise that Amiga users like their favourite classic applications and would like to see them enhanced to run on new hardware. As we conclude deals, we will publish the news here.
That's great news :)
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Excellent!
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Any particular preference of classic software ?
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Any particular preference of classic software ?
How about a new Deluxe Paint?
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We should have something similar soon...
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Any particular preference of classic software ?
I know we have a Blender port but I would love to see an updated version of Lightwave 3D for our miggies i.e something that we don't have to go crazy promoting screen modes etc.
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Now this is a great endevour
I know there was supposed to be an Imagine AmigaOS4.x version but for some reason it never saw the light of day... I wonder if that could be considered, you know I'd be good for a purchase there :hammer:
I'd love (and I rarely say love :roflmao:) to see a DPaint version too but I don't think similair will be the same unfortunately, it might be me but it needs to actually be DPaint I think, I could be wrong, I hope so :drink:
Another one I'd like to see is ArtDeptPro, even if we could make 2.5.1 work on AmigaOS4.x that would be great, it used to work in earlier versions but as we progressed it just stop. ProControl would be a nice addition too...
Cheers ;-)
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One of the essential things identified is porting back the changes on the AmigaOS 4 version to the AmigaOS 3 version. Paying developers is very expensive in terms of the number of potential sales in the Amiga market at this point of time. So maximising the user base is essential for these projects to be commercial sound and at least break-even.
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I know we have a Blender port but I would love to see an updated version of Lightwave 3D for our miggies i.e something that we don't have to go crazy promoting screen modes etc.
lightwave3d hit the version 11, a copy costs 1500$. how exactly you want to convince a commercial entity to port its major application to a platform they likely dont even know about and that would gain them few sales, if any. nit speaking about that 3d modelling and rendering heavily depends on fast floating point parallel computing, said platfoem has no supüort for.
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new tables for pinball illusions ?? i can dream
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I'd love (and I rarely say love :roflmao:) to see a DPaint version too but I don't think similair will be the same unfortunately, it might be me but it needs to actually be DPaint I think, I could be wrong, I hope so :drink:
take grafx2. its dpaint inspired, but much improved utility, it it ideal for producing low color planar gfx such as amiga icons, and you have a good workflow and control over almost anything i can think of. i lately used it so i speak from experience. there is os4 version afaik and an amiga port, even though it has a single rather minor issue and may have not been released.
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One of the essential things identified is porting back the changes on the AmigaOS 4 version to the AmigaOS 3 version. Paying developers is very expensive in terms of the number of potential sales in the Amiga market at this point of time. So maximising the user base is essential for these projects to be commercial sound and at least break-even.
so you are advocating porting os4 back to amiga (68k) in order to increase the potential developers pool? is there actually any agreement about that, because the politics were exactly the opposite all these years and genuine amiga has been treated as an abandoned obsolete platform worth no support. i am afraid, it might be too late for such an attitude change to have an actual effect.
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I know some people are not going to like me asking this (and others will be grateful), but do you plan to port these software to MorphOS and/or AROS as well?
I guess a regrettable "no" would make sense since A-EON/Amigakit is, for perfectly natural reasons, AmigaOS 4 centric. On the other hand a "yes" answer would also make sense since the potential revenue would at least double (fair estimate but not a scientific one).
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Hi
AmigaKit is primarily Classic based really, not AmigaNG. The vast majority of our customers are Classic users. There are a lot of talented MorphOS developers out there, whom were former Classic developers, so we are all aware of their talents. If a MorphOS developer came to us with a good idea and it made commercial sense, then we would consider it, of course. Especially if we could back port it to Classic too.
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Hi
AmigaKit is primarily Classic based really, not AmigaNG. The vast majority of our customers are Classic users.
this goes without saying i guess.
There are a lot of talented MorphOS developers out there, whom were former Classic developers, so we are all aware of their talents. If a MorphOS developer came to us with a good idea and it made commercial sense, then we would consider it, of course.
interesting. a good commercial idea is something rather remote and ilusoric in the widest understood amiga community i suspect. im not even sure if digibooster, which being commercial apparently is an uniquity, makes any commercial sense in its classical understanding. how would you explain "making a commercial sense" would actually look like from your pov.
edit: correcting myself, digibooster isnt actually in mos market since there are versions for all amig-oid sytems except aros-x86 afaik. digibooster also is an uniquity as actually having a distributor.
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One of the essential things identified is porting back the changes on the AmigaOS 4 version to the AmigaOS 3 version.
Not sure what is really meant here, porting back OS4-features to OS3.x ? Or just making making sure that new features added to say a OS4-version of ArtDeptPro are also made available in a OS3.x-version of ArtDeptPro.
DPaint is obviously very popular but has (moste likley) a few stopgaps :
- closly tied to the OCS/AGA chipsets
- parts written in assembler or worse languages
- owned by a company which wouldn't even react to such questions
What might be a good canditate is the MorphOS version of Papyrus, AFAIK only some minor legal problems and a runaway coder that lead to this to be mouthballed so dramatic.
Sources should be gcc-clean and the required level of MUI available to all systems (including 68k and maybe even AROS).
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Amistore is for AOS 4, A-EON is a AOS 4 hardware maker. I thus assumed that this endevor was leaning that way. My bad :)
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@Yasu
AMIStore is for AmigaOS 4 and we are working on an AmigaOS 3 version too. There will be a mix of software available on there for Classic and NG.
@Kronos
I remember buying a load of licences for Papyrus back 5 years ago(?) to support the developer. Unfortunately nothing came of it, but I spent a few hundred on the enterprise.
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Watch this space.
Since announcements are likely to coincide with the AmiWest show, I'll be taking this advice. (Along with watching every other Amiga/AROS/MorphOS/Arix/etc. website I frequent.)
This could turn into something really really good! Or maybe not!
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The negotiation for one particular piece of Classic Amiga software that I am having currently involved in will more than likely extend over the date of Amiwest.
One thing I have learned (the hard way) over the last year, is that software development in the Amiga market is a long process. We operate full time in this business but most of the developers we work with do not, they do the Amiga work in their spare time (usually reserved for family time).
Anyway back to today's AMIStore development work ...
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A modern version of ADPro would be something I'd spend money on.
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A word processor?
A question. Have sales of the os increases since emulation of the powerpc has become possible?
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One of the essential things identified is porting back the changes on the AmigaOS 4 version to the AmigaOS 3 version. Paying developers is very expensive in terms of the number of potential sales in the Amiga market at this point of time. So maximising the user base is essential for these projects to be commercial sound and at least break-even.
Since WinUAE and FS/UAE are supporting PPC classic I'm sure you've seen an increase of sales for Amiga 4.x for classic OS. I would imagine that if Amiga OS 4.x features were porting back to the Classic OS, then you'll sell even more. It would be nice to have another team dedicated to the development of Amiga OS for 68k.
Kamelito
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While I understand and commend that new Amiga software is created for NG operating systems (in fact, if quality original (that is non-ports) software for AOS4 was available it would make my decision to buy a Sam460CR or not much easier), I cannot see what kind of software do Amiga classic users (Amiga 500/600/1200) would need that is not already available? What kind of software is needed, and would run decently on an A1200 with an 030 CPU, and is not already available?
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@AmigaKit
ADPro
ArtEffect
SAS/C kind of IDE but with modern features
Imploder/Powerpacker :)
ImageMaster
GFABasic like basic
Monkey (successor of Blitzbasic see Monkey-x.com)
Scala
Photogenics
AudioMonster
ImageFX
Being English you should try English software companies first like Hisoft, and while being at AmiWest you should make appointments with formers US Amiga developers houses.
In general Aegis/ASDG/EA applications software.
Since Jim Drew is back to the C64/Amiga scene even if classic, it would be nice to have some sort of Amicygnix but for Apple PowerPC software, maybe not Cocoa stuff but Classic/Carbon is doable.
Kamelito
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What might be a good canditate is the MorphOS version of Papyrus, AFAIK only some minor legal problems and a runaway coder that lead to this to be mouthballed so dramatic.
Sources should be gcc-clean and the required level of MUI available to all systems (including 68k and maybe even AROS).
+1 here, although I never had a chance to try it, it seemed it was nearly finished ! was it only for MOS ?
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Hi
AmigaKit is primarily Classic based really, not AmigaNG. The vast majority of our customers are Classic users. There are a lot of talented MorphOS developers out there, whom were former Classic developers, so we are all aware of their talents. If a MorphOS developer came to us with a good idea and it made commercial sense, then we would consider it, of course. Especially if we could back port it to Classic too.
There is many titles you could port from MorphOS to AmigaOS but they are open source and maybe not so interesting commercially.
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The negotiation for one particular piece of Classic Amiga software that I am having currently involved in will more than likely extend over the date of Amiwest.
One thing I have learned (the hard way) over the last year, is that software development in the Amiga market is a long process. We operate full time in this business but most of the developers we work with do not, they do the Amiga work in their spare time (usually reserved for family time).
Anyway back to today's AMIStore development work ...
If you have success to get updates for 68k software I would welcome that
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@Olafs3
thanks :-)
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I'm wondering what are the programs that the so called Classic users wants.
Kamelito
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I'm wondering what are the programs that the so called Classic users wants.
Kamelito
Me too.
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Me too.
+1
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An updated web browser? ;)
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updated browser +1
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updated browser +1
well then, maybe os4 netsurf frontend could be ported to amiga, but its a question whether this will make much practical difference.
what concerns odyssey, its anyway genuinly morphos software. it isnt clear if it would be useable on genuine amigas, but the first step to check that out would be updating the 68k mui up to the level of the version 4.
aros is already being updated to achieve just that and i expect that current version of odyssey will be available from contributions for aros68k,also for genuine amigas next to aros-owb some time soon.
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I know it's pie in the sky but I've wanted a new version of OctaMED for donkey's.
Perhaps more realistic would be Thilo Köhler's HD-Rec; without a doubt the most comprehensive DAW ever made for the Amiga.
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isn't NetSurf-m68k a modern browser for classics?
http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k
Kamelito
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I know it's pie in the sky but I've wanted a new version of OctaMED for donkey's.
+1, I wasted many many hours playing with OctaMED as a kid, :). Good times.
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Wasn't the developer of OctaMED going blind or something, I seem to remember Helgis talking about it years ago.
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I'm wondering what are the programs that the so called Classic users wants.
Kamelito
My opinion is probably unpopular..but I'd bail on classic stuff and just spend a majority of time for MorphOS and OS4 software. I wouldnt even bother buying any new Classic software.
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My opinion is probably unpopular..but I'd bail on classic stuff and just spend a majority of time for MorphOS and OS4 software. I wouldnt even bother buying any new Classic software.
Yes your opinion is "unpopular". You seem to forget what most users in the community still have. A small hint: "not AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS" :)
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Yes your opinion is "unpopular". You seem to forget what most users in the community still have. A small hint: "not AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS" :)
The push to have new software for an old platform that you cant buy newer, more powerful hardware for, to me isnt a good idea. I understand..its "cool" to use old Amiga's and run newer apps that push our Amiga's to limits they never saw back in the 90's... but there are 2 really good NG OS's to choose from in OS4 and MorphOS that should have the most developers concentrating on developing software that showcases their strong points. I'm for running old Amiga's..but I see their time is done and also their limitations.
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The push to have new software for an old platform that you cant buy newer, more powerful hardware for, to me isnt a good idea. I understand..its "cool" to use old Amiga's and run newer apps that push our Amiga's to limits they never saw back in the 90's... but there are 2 really good NG OS's to choose from in OS4 and MorphOS that should have the most developers concentrating on developing software that showcases their strong points. I'm for running old Amiga's..but I see their time is done and also their limitations.
new hardware is on the way, most software is 68k, most dev environments are 68k, most documentation is 68k, most users are 68k users (without owning and using AmigaOS or MorphOS). As you said it has some coolness factor f.e. to run DOS games in a amiga environment. I do not see the same when using it on "alien" hardware (people might see that different :) ). Of course I myself run it on X64 PC in emulation but at least the environment is (more or less) original.
And even if it would be just the known amiga hardware, most users there mean most potential buyers
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new hardware is on the way, most software is 68k, most dev environments are 68k, most documentation is 68k, most users are 68k users (without owning and using AmigaOS or MorphOS). As you said it has some coolness factor f.e. to run DOS games in a amiga environment. I do not see the same when using it on "alien" hardware (people might see that different :) )
..and thats probably the main reason the Amiga never became anything other than a flash in the pan. Everything was made to be compatible with an Amiga 500. 512k ram, 1 floppy. If a majority of people think "all new hardware is alien", then they'll be stuck with software thats for underpowered machines instead of working on NG OS software. But different strokes for different folks.. not my deal. I have other hobbies I spend money on. :-)
I do understand the nostalgia of what you are talking about..dont get me wrong..I just think the dev work is mis-guided.
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..and thats probably the main reason the Amiga never became anything other than a flash in the pan. Everything was made to be compatible with an Amiga 500. 512k ram, 1 floppy. If a majority of people think "all new hardware is alien", then they'll be stuck with software thats for underpowered machines instead of working on NG OS software. But different strokes for different folks.. not my deal. I have other hobbies I spend money on. :-)
I do understand the nostalgia of what you are talking about..dont get me wrong..I just think the dev work is mis-guided.
I do not agree that "everything was made to be compatible with A500". That was certainly the case for most of the games, you could not earn money if it did not run on A500. That is not the case for most applications, and I think Amigakit is thinking of those (and not games).
Let me look what I have on 68k... AHI, RTG (24bit), different desktops, compilers, applications like Final Writer, Cinema 4D, lots of compilers (both free and commercial) and so on
The weakest point is 3D because there is no hardware accelleration for it
Of course the hardware is aged now but this will improve in next months (I know at least two FPGA projects becoming reality)
some screenshots:
http://www.aros-platform.de/html/some_software.html
As I understand it there will be both enhanced AmigaOS PPC and 68k versions
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Perhaps more realistic would be Thilo Köhler's HD-Rec; without a doubt the most comprehensive DAW ever made for the Amiga.
whats wrong with hd-rec as is? its axtually very good software, one of those that actuaöly provide better usability than any of free alternatives that are available for mainstream systems i know off.
hd-rec is also open now and can be improved by third party.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hd-rec/
it is though written in amiblitz, so it isnt portable, but as long as you can run 68k on your sytem via emulation you are safe.
unfortunatelly it isnt usable on aros68k, since amiblitz probably still hacks with some private gfx stuff, aros is not expecting being modified behind its back.
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isn't NetSurf-m68k a modern browser for classics?
http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k
Kamelito
it is, though its a different implementation (sdl framebuffer) to os4 reaction frontend and the os4 can probably be considered better integrated with the system. if it provides better functionality is yet to be proven, bundling effort here could be of advantage, but it doesnt seem to happen.
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I do understand the nostalgia of what you are talking about..
there is roughly as many points of view as many people would post here their opinion. nothing wrong with yours. but dealing with the community as diverse as this you need to find common denominator. and the common denominator is genuine amiga, the 68k code, backward compatibility and clean system compatible programming practice.
software done with these values in mind is able to run on maximal number of devices their owners coinsider more or less "amiga" and therefore it has most positive impact on the scene in general while it costs least resources.
i can understand point of view of ng users as yours, to urge to concentrate on development of either aros, mos or os4, but still i cant see a practical possiblity to convince the widest user base to any of those solutions exclusively.
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@Olafs3
thanks :-)
just a idea: Raystorm
http://aminet.net/search?query=raystorm
it is opensource:
https://github.com/privatosan/RayStorm
another good application is ignition. I read that it was planned to get ported to AmigaOS but never was
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i can understand point of view of ng users as yours, to urge to concentrate on development of either aros, mos or os4, but still i cant see a practical possiblity to convince the widest user base to any of those solutions exclusively.
This has always been the problem, I think.
Even back in 1992 Commodore will have found it hard to make people use the new OS 3.0 API - but of course now we take it for granted. Developing for OS 2.04 or even OS 1.3 is unheard of.
There comes a point when the people still using the obsolete APIs like OS 3.x have to move on to stay current - it's always been that way, and always will be. Of course the problem now is what do they move on to. To some it's OS 4, to others it's MorphOS, to others it's AROS.... but only ever supporting an ancient platform like OS 3 - even though it's the lowest common denominator, is such a low power platform that catering to that as a primary platform will hold back all the newer platforms.
We need to push forward, otherwise we'll be forever stuck with apps that are made to run on a processor from nearly 25 years ago, and that's no way to stay current.
It's a very difficult one to call, though, and I completely empathise with what you're saying - the "Classic" is the common factor with all of us - and it shouldn't be ignored... but I think it should be treated more as a legacy platform rather than the current target platform. If something runs well on low-spec hardware, make it for OS 3 - but don't hold back progress on our multi-GHz NG machines for the sake of a 20 year-old machine.
There's no simple solution (as usual for the Amiga world....)
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This has always been the problem, I think.
Even back in 1992 Commodore will have found it hard to make people use the new OS 3.0 API - but of course now we take it for granted. Developing for OS 2.04 or even OS 1.3 is unheard of.
There comes a point when the people still using the obsolete APIs like OS 3.x have to move on to stay current - it's always been that way, and always will be. Of course the problem now is what do they move on to. To some it's OS 4, to others it's MorphOS, to others it's AROS.... but only ever supporting an ancient platform like OS 3 - even though it's the lowest common denominator, is such a low power platform that catering to that as a primary platform will hold back all the newer platforms.
We need to push forward, otherwise we'll be forever stuck with apps that are made to run on a processor from nearly 25 years ago, and that's no way to stay current.
It's a very difficult one to call, though, and I completely empathise with what you're saying - the "Classic" is the common factor with all of us - and it shouldn't be ignored... but I think it should be treated more as a legacy platform rather than the current target platform. If something runs well on low-spec hardware, make it for OS 3 - but don't hold back progress on our multi-GHz NG machines for the sake of a 20 year-old machine.
There's no simple solution (as usual for the Amiga world....)
the picture is much more mixed than that. I am pretty sure that if you would count the 68k user most users are using UAE of any sort, a minority has hardware (mostly heavily expanded) with faster processor, more ram and even graphiccard. The assumption by many MorphOS/AmigaOS users is that 68k is unexpanded A500 or A1200. That is not the case and I am pretty sure that in near future there will be FPGA options to expand and improve the hardware. I for example am testing 68k software on my 68k environment (like Raytracers) and I do not see it holding back anything. What improvements are there on AmigaOS or MorphOS that justify specific software? What API improvements are there? If anybody wants to sell software on amiga he has to do it in a way that it runs on as many platforms as possible and 68k is (in form of UAE) available everywhere. AROS 68k has the same API as the big brothers, so where it is "holding something back". Basically 68k is a compiler option. The only problem about 68k is that many of the few remaining developers chose AmigaOS or MorphOS as their main platform and did not support 68k anymore. That resulted in that 68k versions often were older and in some cases not existing. From technical view I do not believe that there is a real problem.
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whats wrong with hd-rec as is?
It's not that there is anything wrong with it - I already made the point that it's miles better than any other attempt at a DAW on the Amiga.
That being said, there are many restrictions that, after a couple of years, eventually pushed me away from using it as my DAW and ultimately the Amiga, although I believe many of these are hardware or OS related and not something Thilo could have done much about.
One example (and I think this is more a limitation of the Amiga than HD-Rec), having the ability to record several inputs at once.
hd-rec is also open now and can be improved by third party.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hd-rec/
it is though written in amiblitz, so it isnt portable, but as long as you can run 68k on your sytem via emulation you are safe.
Yes, if I was a bit younger and had time to both learn amiblitz and spend on HD-Rec, it's something I'd be looking at.
Who knows, I may get around to it yet....
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It's not that there is anything wrong with it - I already made the point that it's miles better than any other attempt at a DAW on the Amiga.
the last few weeks i have been underway and looked to record multiple tracks with my bass guitar via na old radio as an amp to the suface pro, the only computer i had with me. i didnt have any multitrack recording software with me except samplitude i consider unsatisfactory and looked at some options. i must say the only reason why i didnt pick up hd-rec under uae again, being annoyed with everything else, was that uae doesnt work well with touchscreen. maybe its just me, but imho hd-rec is great, simple and intuitive tool to make raw recording and cut/edit them on the fly without having to fight with countless input settings that only make your recording sound dull instead of crisp.
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This has always been the problem, I think.
where there is a problem one needs to seek solution, where there is not, you will not even notice. so what?
Even back in 1992 Commodore will have found it hard to make people use the new OS 3.0 API - but of course now we take it for granted. Developing for OS 2.04 or even OS 1.3 is unheard of.
first of all they broke the backwards compatibility, which was a bad move and splitted the user base. you have had to user kickstart switches, and therefore people stuck to 1.3 and were hesistant about especially 2.x, where there is almost no software for and also 3.x which was introduced almost simultanously with aga machines. it was by any means wrong politics towards the users, and it didnt help the platform for sure. yet even at that point it didnt kill it definitely, because it was still alive. this kind of approach today is simply suicidal.
There comes a point when the people still using the obsolete APIs like OS 3.x have to move on to stay current - it's always been that way, and always will be. Of course the problem now is what do they move on to. To some it's OS 4, to others it's MorphOS, to others it's AROS.... but only ever supporting an ancient platform like OS 3 - even though it's the lowest common denominator, is such a low power platform that catering to that as a primary platform will hold back all the newer platforms.
it will hold them back from splitting any further, which under the given circumstances is a good thing, definitely. except one of them had so much own dynamics, that it was actually able to take off for the future on its own. alas there is no such option, lets not fool ourselves.
We need to push forward, otherwise we'll be forever stuck with apps that are made to run on a processor from nearly 25 years ago, and that's no way to stay current.
in fact this is the bigest and most used pool of software you have acces to, whatever amigalike system you are sworn to. if you desperately need to push forward at the cost of losing it, be my guest, just make your choice and dont complain later of no company.
It's a very difficult one to call, though, and I completely empathise with what you're saying - the "Classic" is the common factor with all of us - and it shouldn't be ignored... but I think it should be treated more as a legacy platform rather than the current target platform. If something runs well on low-spec hardware, make it for OS 3 - but don't hold back progress on our multi-GHz NG machines for the sake of a 20 year-old machine.
are you implying, we are holding you back? how? none of us has any say on which way to develop os4 software, its entirely up to os4 companies and fans. i refuse to be blamed about that.
There's no simple solution (as usual for the Amiga world....)
if there was, this wasnt be a problem to discuss. im sorry, but a simple demand to thrash your amiga into a bin and follow any of ng alternatives wont work any better as it did up till now. want a solution, then face it.
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The ideal solution to me would be an Amiga NG 100% compatible with the Classic. (no I don't want an *UAE*)
If I launch ASM-ONE it will work and if I poke to HW registers it will perform like the classic does. So a collaboration between A-EON and Mike from FPGAArcade to build an add-on card using Mike technology to make that possible :)
Kamelito
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The ideal solution to me would be an Amiga NG 100% compatible with the Classic. (no I don't want an *UAE*)
If I launch ASM-ONE it will work and if I poke to HW registers it will perform like the classic does. So a collaboration between A-EON and Mike from FPGAArcade to build an add-on card using Mike technology to make that possible :)
Kamelito
ever thought about the combination of gunnars accelerator boards with aros68k? no, neither is 100% finished but its closest to what you are demanding for, it seems.
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What improvements are there on AmigaOS or MorphOS that justify specific software? What API improvements are there?
The compositing engine in OS4.1 brings hardware acceleration to a lot of 2D drawing functions such as alpha blending, scaling, texturing and more.
Target 68k and you can forget about using those features. Use those features and you can have some pretty cool software that gives a more compelling reason for people to add OS4.x hardware to their collection.
Ringhio is handy for notifying the user of events. It would be fairly easy to have OS4 version that supports this and 68k version that doesn't.
Those are just 2 things I can think of.
Personally I'd rather see compositing used wherever and whenever possible especially if software using it attracts more users.
MorphOS has layers3d.library which I think has a lot of the same functionality of the compositing in OS4.1.
MorphOS has Reggae which can probably best be described as datatypes on steroids.
I'm sure MorphOS users would prefer software fully exploits these powerful features too.
If you just target 3.x and everyone gets the same thing no matter what system they are using then there's really no little point in having MorphOS, OS4 and to a lesser extent AROS.
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Even back in 1992 Commodore will have found it hard to make people use the new OS 3.0 API - but of course now we take it for granted. Developing for OS 2.04 or even OS 1.3 is unheard of.
I develop for Kickstart 2.0 and I have even gone so far that i have removed Kickstart 3.0 dependencies to get there.
In some cases i have made my programs Kickstart 1 compatible if it is possible without too much effort (lack of CreateNewProc is biggest obstacle).
I see no problem there. Other my sw then might require the latest MorphOS version.
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Target 68k and you can forget about using those features. Use those features and you can have some pretty cool software that gives a more compelling reason for people to add OS4.x hardware to their collection.
Excuse me but why would developer give a damn if his software helps to generate more HW sales?
Lack of nice API calls like alpha blending and such is good argument to not have 68k build (you have to provide your own method to do that) but idea that developers are here to promote others work (OS developers or HW developers) is daft.
Unless you are OS/HW developer of course.
Personally I'd rather see compositing used wherever and whenever possible especially if software using it attracts more users.
Are developers getting paid if they use one of new features?
MorphOS has layers3d.library which I think has a lot of the same functionality of the compositing in OS4.1.
In fact it is built-in to layers.library.
MorphOS has Reggae which can probably best be described as datatypes on steroids.
I'm sure MorphOS users would prefer software fully exploits these powerful features too.
Actually it does not matter as long as it does its job. Reggae is more flexible and advanced but user dont give a damn. If they did, you would not use OS4 anymore ;)
If you just target 3.x and everyone gets the same thing no matter what system they are using then there's really no little point in having MorphOS, OS4 and to a lesser extent AROS.
Wrong. Even if you are just using 68k applications in MorphOS you benefit from greater speed, better user interface, hardware support and selection of software that comes as a standard.
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..and thats probably the main reason the Amiga never became anything other than a flash in the pan. Everything was made to be compatible with an Amiga 500. 512k ram, 1 floppy. If a majority of people think "all new hardware is alien", then they'll be stuck with software thats for underpowered machines instead of working on NG OS software. But different strokes for different folks.. not my deal. I have other hobbies I spend money on. :-)
That is just Commodore's fault they didnt make new Amigas compelling enough. Kickstart 2.0 made sw development easier and it gained popularity in productivity sw market. But to regular users, no.
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Excuse me but why would developer give a damn if his software helps to generate more HW sales?
I'd have thought that most users and developers of NG systems would like to see an increased user base.
Lack of nice API calls like alpha blending and such is good argument to not have 68k build (you have to provide your own method to do that) but idea that developers are here to promote others work (OS developers or HW developers) is daft.
Unless you are OS/HW developer of course.
You have to reinvent the wheel for each application that way unless developers share/open source well documented routines for other to use and will the hardware be there or will it be slow software rendered stuff.
Again most people wanted an increased user base for there NG system of choice, dont' you?
Are developers getting paid if they use one of new features?
Generally they use the new features because it makes development easier or perhaps allows for features that might not be possible/as fast otherwise.
Amiboing make heavy use of compositing in their games and there's also LiveForIt-mplayer, neither are getting handed bundles of cash for using the new (a number of years old actually) OS features. They do it because it allows them to do something better, the whole reason the OS devs put the features in in the first place.
In fact it is built-in to layers.library.
Thanks for the technical correction.
Actually it does not matter as long as it does its job. Reggae is more flexible and advanced but user dont give a damn. If they did, you would not use OS4 anymore ;)
The user may not care what code is responsible behind the scenes but it doesn't stop them appreciating the result. Was Reggae developed in the hope that nobody would bother to use it?
Wrong. Even if you are just using 68k applications in MorphOS you benefit from greater speed, better user interface, hardware support and selection of software that comes as a standard.
Faster than 68k software on Amithlon, for instance. So you want a better UI and better hardware support but you don't want the software to take advantage of it, strange?
Ultimately devs will develope for 68k, multi platform or a specific NG system based on their design goals and whether they need/want to use better feature offered in the NG systems.
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The compositing engine in OS4.1 brings hardware acceleration to a lot of 2D drawing functions such as alpha blending, scaling, texturing and more.
Target 68k and you can forget about using those features. Use those features and you can have some pretty cool software that gives a more compelling reason for people to add OS4.x hardware to their collection.
Ringhio is handy for notifying the user of events. It would be fairly easy to have OS4 version that supports this and 68k version that doesn't.
Those are just 2 things I can think of.
Personally I'd rather see compositing used wherever and whenever possible especially if software using it attracts more users.
MorphOS has layers3d.library which I think has a lot of the same functionality of the compositing in OS4.1.
MorphOS has Reggae which can probably best be described as datatypes on steroids.
I'm sure MorphOS users would prefer software fully exploits these powerful features too.
If you just target 3.x and everyone gets the same thing no matter what system they are using then there's really no little point in having MorphOS, OS4 and to a lesser extent AROS.
From what me have been told MorphOS (AROS/3.X) and AmigaOS are developing differently so if you use specific functionality of AmigaOS you are stuck to AmigaOS user (around 1000-1500 user I would guess) or you use MorphOS specific functionality then you are tied to the MorphOS user base. 68k is by far the biggest part and (if written properly) runs on AmigaOS and MorphOS too so from a commercial point of view it makes much more sense (as long as the specific features do not give obvious big advantages). Also writing PPC versions often means rewriting big parts (f.e. look at what happened with Art Effect and StormC AmigaOS ports). Magellan is a real exception but mostly there are reasons why the software never was ported. If you stay on 68k you can take the existing sources and add new functions and remove bugs (much less time than rewriting it).
There might be projects where it makes sense to drop 68k completely but that depends on the project.
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but don't hold back progress on our multi-GHz NG machines
You talk about progress, but are happy to be stuck with AmigaOS derivative operating systems. If you want progress, use a peecee with a modern operating system.
If you like Amiga land, then you've got to accept that you're always going to lag FAR behind what's available now, and it's most likely NOT going to change. Doesn't matter to me. I use an A1200 and a peecee (yeah, with Winblows). Best of both worlds.
Also, why should 68k developers who enjoy 68k cater to NG users?
for the sake of a 20 year-old machine.
Those old machines are what it's all about to many people, including myself (no nostalgia).
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I'd have thought that most users and developers of NG systems would like to see an increased user base.
You have to reinvent the wheel for each application that way unless developers share/open source well documented routines for other to use and will the hardware be there or will it be slow software rendered stuff.
Again most people wanted an increased user base for there NG system of choice, dont' you?
Generally they use the new features because it makes development easier or perhaps allows for features that might not be possible/as fast otherwise.
Amiboing make heavy use of compositing in their games and there's also LiveForIt-mplayer, neither are getting handed bundles of cash for using the new (a number of years old actually) OS features. They do it because it allows them to do something better, the whole reason the OS devs put the features in in the first place.
Thanks for the technical correction.
The user may not care what code is responsible behind the scenes but it doesn't stop them appreciating the result. Was Reggae developed in the hope that nobody would bother to use it?
Faster than 68k software on Amithlon, for instance. So you want a better UI and better hardware support but you don't want the software to take advantage of it, strange?
Ultimately devs will develope for 68k, multi platform or a specific NG system based on their design goals and whether they need/want to use better feature offered in the NG systems.
Wrong ... that is the widespread view in the so called NG camp. If people think commercial they want to sell software. Why was MS-DOS successful? Because of its great features? :) It was successful because of the huge user base (=huge number of buyers). Simply as that. So if you think in economic terms (what is not widespread at amiga developers right now) you do not care if AmigaOS or MorphOS give you any advantage as long as this features do not give you advantages that are so big that they justify the small number of potential csutomers. Or you are convinced that AmigaOS will become the next big thing like A1000 and you want to jump onboard early. I do not see this here.
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I'd have thought that most users and developers of NG systems would like to see an increased user base.
Do you ask Windows developers to not support Win95 anymore because of that?
Users/developers certainly wish there is more new and neat applications coming in the future and the platform is growing. But I dont think developers supporting 68k are slowing us down. MorphOS is growing nicely and I think that only way to boost that growth is to boost OS development. Writing new software must be made easier and that is task to OS developers.
You have to reinvent the wheel for each application that way unless developers share/open source well documented routines for other to use and will the hardware be there or will it be slow software rendered stuff.
It is up to developer choose what APIs he uses, what systems he supports and how much time he can or want to invest. I write the software for MorphOS only but if it looks I can port software to AmigaOS quite easily and I have time to do that I might do that. I have developed bunch of (slow) alpha blending functions that are compatible to CGX and so on. If it is too slow, too bad, buy faster Amiga. I have even replacement memory pool or AllocVec() routines so I can go to support even 2.0 or 1.3. Usually I cant because I am using MUI in GUI applications.
So I have limits what I am not ready to trade off for backward compatibility but may occasionally build 68k binaries without using any Kickstart 3+ calls.
Again most people wanted an increased user base for there NG system of choice, dont' you?
I would not mind but I am happy with MorphOS as a user and developer.
Generally they use the new features because it makes development easier or perhaps allows for features that might not be possible/as fast otherwise.
That is what I do. Then later I can write replacement functions for missing pieces. Maybe.
Amiboing make heavy use of compositing in their games and there's also LiveForIt-mplayer, neither are getting handed bundles of cash for using the new (a number of years old actually) OS features. They do it because it allows them to do something better, the whole reason the OS devs put the features in in the first place.
What is so special in MPlayer? I presume there is no decent build for 68k and if there is there is no GUI and it would be too slow for real 68k. 68k build tools might be horribly out of date making porting too difficult and so on.
The user may not care what code is responsible behind the scenes but it doesn't stop them appreciating the result. Was Reggae developed in the hope that nobody would bother to use it?
Reggae is part of OS and OS components are using it. I think MUI is not using it and relies on datatypes (IIRC, I have not checked it lately) but it is just using it to load images. No really reason to invest time to rewrite working code.
Users can ask if 3rd party programs are using Reggae and if not ask to add it. Developer may agree or not, it is his choice. We provide the toolbox and developers pick their favorite tools from there.
Faster than 68k software on Amithlon, for instance. So you want a better UI and better hardware support but you don't want the software to take advantage of it, strange?
I dont have any specific needs in my mind at the moment. There is new software in development taking advantage of new APIs, like ebook readers. I suppose they use Unicode and charset conversion APIs provided by the MorphOS and not relying on 3rd party libraries. I dont have any ebooks yet.
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@itix
there is 68k build of ffmpeg and ffplay from amistuff heavily asm optimized with the help of matthey especially for 060. it is already few years old, im not sure it has been updated. the result using it was mostly a slideshow, but it was a cool experience to mes with it.
what concerns your cgx replacement for alphablending functions, is this c or (68k?) asm, for chunky or planar graphics? would you consider to contribute it to aros(68k) if it was of advantage for them? i would happily establish a contact to krzysztof or neil.
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maybe its just me, but imho hd-rec is great, simple and intuitive tool to make raw recording and cut/edit them on the fly....
It's not just you; I agree with all of that.
Nonetheless, and retunring to my original point, I often need to record 3 or 4 inputs simultaneously. Even if I just want to record an acoustic guitar I'll almost always have two microphones on it. There is nothing on the Amiga that can do this.
If HD-Rec/OS4 could be modernised to accommodate multiple, simultaneous inputs (again, as one example), it would be a considerable improvement.
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It's not just you; I agree with all of that.
Nonetheless, and retunring to my original point, I often need to record 3 or 4 inputs simultaneously. Even if I just want to record an acoustic guitar I'll almost always have two microphones on it. There is nothing on the Amiga that can do this.
If HD-Rec/OS4 could be modernised to accommodate multiple, simultaneous inputs (again, as one example), it would be a considerable improvement.
im not sure ahi allows this. im not sure too if it could have or ever been done with any sound card on amiga using any alternative driver system. i suppose if this was doable wanderer would have implemented that.
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@itix
what concerns your cgx replacement for alphablending functions, is this c or (68k?) asm, for chunky or planar graphics? would you consider to contribute it to aros(68k) if it was of advantage for them? i would happily establish a contact to krzysztof or neil.
I dont think you want that. It is slow generic ReadPixelArray() + modify pixels + WritePixelArray() without any optimizations. It only works for ARGB. But it has properly working GlobalAlpha parameter, I think.
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@itix
i see. i think this is satisfactory implemented so far. im mostly concerned about improving planar gfx in this and every other respect if even possible. but thx for the answer.;)
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Itix
". Writing new software must be made easier and that is task to OS developers."
That is not the first time I read that from you, so we're waiting for your tools to speed up development under Morphos or AmigaOS :)
Kamelito
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68k is by far the biggest part
That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?
Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".
A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.
For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.
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That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?
Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".
A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.
For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.
christoph.. hello?!? anybody home?
aros68k a decade too late? wow?? as if anything else amiga was so much ahead of it. we are not discussing here any plans to catch up with windows, right? we just discuss what would benefit most of the interested parties involved in projects that all are inevitably doomed to fail.
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im not sure ahi allows this. im not sure too if it could have or ever been done with any sound card on amiga using any alternative driver system. i suppose if this was doable wanderer would have implemented that.
Indeed. As I already said:
I believe many of these are hardware or OS related and not something Thilo could have done much about
If it is AHI that causes it then I guess OS4 will probably never be able to handle simultaneous inputs.
Pity.
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You talk about progress, but are happy to be stuck with AmigaOS derivative operating systems. If you want progress, use a peecee with a modern operating system.
If you like Amiga land, then you've got to accept that you're always going to lag FAR behind what's available now, and it's most likely NOT going to change. Doesn't matter to me. I use an A1200 and a peecee (yeah, with Winblows). Best of both worlds.
Also, why should 68k developers who enjoy 68k cater to NG users?
Those old machines are what it's all about to many people, including myself (no nostalgia).
I assume that, as a purist, you don't sully your Workbench with filthy tricks like Magic Menu, New Icons and MUI.
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we just discuss what would benefit most of the interested parties involved in projects that all are inevitably doomed to fail.
Olaf is the one frequently using terms like "available software", "no. of systems", "size of target group" etc. I'm just saying he should lower his expectations. A lot.
There are two niche jobs for m68k-aros in the retro community, but there won't be anybody really using it for actual desktop computing. I'm not sure Olaf understands this.
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I assume that, as a purist, you don't sully your Workbench with filthy tricks like Magic Menu, New Icons and MUI.
What is that supposed to mean?
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What is that supposed to mean?
Well there's no point in bolting on extra functionality since it will never catch up with Windows.
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Well there's no point in bolting on extra functionality since it will never catch up with Windows.
That makes no sense. Of course I use Workbench enhancements (just not that many for stability).
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And i guess a port of the several wifi and network drivers+ network manager (despite obsolete) that aros x86 has and IS an extra functionality would not benefit a 68k user huh?
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Olaf is the one frequently using terms like "available software", "no. of systems", "size of target group" etc. I'm just saying he should lower his expectations. A lot.
There are two niche jobs for m68k-aros in the retro community, but there won't be anybody really using it for actual desktop computing. I'm not sure Olaf understands this.
i think olaf understands as much as he needs to understand. definitely he understans more than many others, probably more than me. nevertheless if he advocates something, he must be allowed to a little enthusiastic about it. its not like he is charging people money for his work or trying to talk them into something. i think we were always pretty honest about the state and possibilities what concerns aros68k. and olafs distribution is much more than aros, it is an comprehensive bundle of software that in many cases would not be available for free or open sourced without him and co.
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I remember he said he was keeping high end 68k systems up to date. (Nothing after OS 3.9) Also it provides free software for an FPGA Amiga.
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nevertheless if he advocates something, he must be allowed to a little enthusiastic about it. its not like he is charging people money for his work or trying to talk them into something.
Huh? My apologies if I came across as trying to shut him up or something. I simply disagree about where AROS will be going in the future, and was discussing that. I actually appreciate his efforts (and told him so in the past), because - amongst other things - they bring us closer to a free/libre Amiga environment for retro purposes.
I'm just saying what he said is dumb ;)
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I'm just saying what he said is dumb ;)
huh?
but i guess you know this site yourself quite well:
http://aminet.net/statistics
well, even if among recent uploads ports overweight in the meantime even on 68k, it doesnt mean on ng platforms it is any better.
what concerns aros none of us knows exactly where and which way it goes. when m68k platform has been undertaken it went full throttle ahead, now it is pretty still, doesnt even that say something?
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huh?
Good lord... I'm joking.
it doesnt mean on ng platforms it is any better.
I wasn't comparing m68k to NG platforms, I was just talking about m68k-aros. You can judge that without ever looking at any NG platform. Actually you should judge it without looking at NG platforms given that it's using a totally different approach and targetting totally different people - and that most NG approaches reached a dead end long ago.
"Yay, we got more software updates than Geos 64 this month!"
what concerns aros none of us knows exactly where and which way it goes. when m68k platform has been undertaken it went full throttle ahead, now it is pretty still, doesnt even that say something?
Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say?
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i say that even in case of aros the involvement of 68k platform led to additional and pretty significant dynamic in allround development, improvements that all targets profited from.
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That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?
Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".
A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.
For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.
I am not angry, I have no problem with different views
First (as Wawa said) too late for what? I do not expect it to become mainstream, I think there is a chance to become a niche and reverse the trend (shrinking community) to a certain degree. That it is "obscure" like you call it is a chance because "obscure" means different and this might turn in interesting for some. Copying Windows or Linux without comparable resources has to fail and there I see one of the reasons why the so called "NG" failed, another one is that both AmigaOS and MorphOS were too late too to really make a difference. Nobody of us can change history, yes Aros should have concentrated on 68k as first platform then they would have progressed faster and might have made a difference in the 90s but that did not happen. All were focused on new hardware instead of trying to build up on what they had (what is still the case at many of the NG devs). I now think that 68k (and for me that mostly means Aros 68k) offers the chance to build up on the existing code base with many years of work in it. Additionally it is possible to easy adapt or even simple compile Aros software (X86) to 68k. I do not see this as "dumb" even if you think different. I appreciate your experience from many years but even you can be wrong. And I am not the only one who has this (or similar) ideas.
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That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?
Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".
A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.
For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.
I never said that Aros 68k will be the main desktop system or mainstream OS again, time have changed and no chance anymore. In opposite to how many NG users see the future I think the only chance is to have it as a kind of toy, a fun system you enjoy to use, play games, program, perhaps even do raytracing or whatever but as a pure hobby platform and not as a main work platform. For working you have Windows, Linux, Mac already, nobody needs AmigaOS, AROS or MorphOS additionally. That does not mean that there are some hobbyists who do that but for vast majority of people. I understand that already and have never said something different. But in todays world even a niche can be much more bigger than what we now have.
Aros 68k can run on
amiga hardware
emulation
new FPGA hardware
for amiga hardware it misses needed speed optimizations, as long as not new people step in I fear that not much will change
Emulation is working good
For new FPGA hardware there is a good chance that it will be adapted
BTW I think that is one of the main problems of "NG" because people mostly think about how they can get the same features as the "big" platforms but not how they can be really and feelable different and I think only difference makes it possible to "sale" something.
Much depends now on the involvement of devs and users how development will go on.
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@OlafS3
Despite that is undeniable all amiga communities - NG and 68k - need new blood, both as userbase and developers: and about this the actual scene does not seem very friendly in this context either for the obsolete or convoluted tools or for the way to progran different from the ones used actually or even and mainly for the attitude against change and estabilished hierarchies that seems to linger especially in the main community portals like this - and BTW sometimes not even AROS is immune to this, i stil remember Rob Norris...
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How well does DOpus 5.90+ work on AROS/m68k? I would very much prefer that as OS for FPGA systems :)
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What DPaint did so brilliantly was animation, in time I hope to have a pretty dedicate FPGA "super AGA" setup (lots of chipram, like FPGAArcade can do) for DPaint, so I can animate like I used to, only faster, and maybe higher resolutions :)
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I think that porting programs to any Amiga-like system that can support the program i question would be the right strategy to go. We have lost so much by all the infighting and bickering. It's time to try a new strategy: co-operation!
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How well does DOpus 5.90+ work on AROS/m68k? I would very much prefer that as OS for FPGA systems :)
Yes it is. I use it on Aros Vision as desktop replacement
Both the old Magellan and the new version work
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I think that porting programs to any Amiga-like system that can support the program i question would be the right strategy to go. We have lost so much by all the infighting and bickering. It's time to try a new strategy: co-operation!
Unfortunately the OS devs seem not very interested in it. One solution would be to have modern class libraries that hide the differences. That would also make it easier for outsiders to start programming. I am a pascal fan so Free Pascal would be first choice for me there :). I hope I can do more in the near future there (besides optimizing Aros Vision and adding online documentations for it). The only problem is that the newest version of Free Pascal is not available for all platforms.
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Yes it is. I use it on Aros Vision as desktop replacement
Great! :)
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Open office and a decent web browser, suddenly the Amiga becomes a very useful everyday tool :-)
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Unfortunately the OS devs seem not very interested in it. One solution would be to have modern class libraries that hide the differences. That would also make it easier for outsiders to start programming. I am a pascal fan so Free Pascal would be first choice for me there :). I hope I can do more in the near future there (besides optimizing Aros Vision and adding online documentations for it). The only problem is that the newest version of Free Pascal is not available for all platforms.
If you're a Pascal fan could you theses program compile under Amiga to we could translate Z80 source code to 68k?
http://files.programmersheaven.com/ASM/68000/z80conv/
Kamelito
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If you're a Pascal fan could you theses program compile under Amiga to we could translate Z80 source code to 68k?
http://files.programmersheaven.com/ASM/68000/z80conv/
Kamelito
It does not look very complicated. I can try if Free Pascal can compile it
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im not sure ahi allows this.
This blog by Lyle Hazelwood from July makes for some interesting reading:
But due to technical difficulties, I was unable to add support for monitoring inputs “Live” and unable to add support for it in the “Mixer” program. I have had to explain this dozens of times, and it was even added to the AmigaOS Wiki X1000 FAQ. Now, just one more time, I’ll detail exactly what went wrong with these features....
The rest is here:
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1136
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@wilse
I think Lyle is referring to missing volume control on some sound cards. They did not want to use software volume control but poke directly to some register instead and lyle found solution to that.