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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: apsturk on October 08, 2014, 10:35:46 PM
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How does the Sam460 hold up to a Mac Mini witha G4 at 1.5mhz anyone have a idea??
Thanks
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In terms of age...
SAm is almost new 1 to 2 yrs old...mac mini is many years old and in it's little case has been heating and cooling those caps...
ALL old hardware is getting harder to find parts for...
My family has macs (we discovered they are very expensive to repair)
New SAM are coming as announced by Acube. (if morph is ported sam will be the only new hardware running it)
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http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2012-02-00011-EN.html
Mac mini is about 2.5 ~ 3 times faster
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yeah, makes a whole lot of sense to buy a newer almost no-name hardware because its dramatically slower than old abandoned one by a trusted label manufacturer with widespread followership. especially that the new one is magnitudes more expensive that the label one, because the latter is only to be acquired second hand.
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In only my opinion, the software you run on the computer matters. While the Mac will run an older version of the Mac OS, Linux, and some other Amiga-like OS that runs in emulation, the SAM 460 only runs Amiga OS 4.1 and Linux.
"Your mileage may vary" depending on what experience you are looking for -- surfing, word processing, gaming, etc. When you decide on how you want to use the computer, then the forum members will better be able to help :-)
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... the SAM 460 only runs Amiga OS 4.1 and Linux.
A MorphOS port is also on the works.
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...the Mac will run ... some other Amiga-like OS that runs in emulation, the SAM 460 only runs Amiga OS 4.1
It runs MorphOS natively, which is no more "emulation" than OS4.1, in fact they both work pretty much the same way, execute PPC code natively and 68K via a JIT emulation layer. But as you can see above, the Mini G4 is pretty much on X1000-level performance.
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It runs MorphOS natively, which is no more "emulation" than OS4.1, in fact they both work pretty much the same way, execute PPC code natively and 68K via a JIT emulation layer. But as you can see above, the Mini G4 is pretty much on X1000-level performance.
You need a fast G4 to measure up, not just anyone, I don't think there is any G4 dual core MacMini's.
Anyway G5's are more simular to the PA6T.
Mac Mini runs MorphOS if you like that.
Sam460 / AmigaOne-X1000 runs AmigaOS4.1
So if you don't like MorphOS, it should not be too hard to chose, right :-).
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How does the Sam460 hold up to a Mac Mini witha G4 at 1.5mhz anyone have a idea??
Thanks
The Mac Mini is at least 2x as fast, probably more in some circumstances. This becomes very obvious when for example watching videos (under MorphOS the Mini can play most x.264 720p streams without frame skipping) and browsing websites of the heavier kind. MorphOS has pretty solid support for the Mac Mini HW, the GFX is for example completely supported (2D + 3D acceleration, Overlay), even the Airport Extreme WiFi card (if present) is supported.
The Mac Mini is a very cool little machine. It's compact and powerful - in PPC terms of course (which honestly is quite weak by today's standards, but then again, the Sam460 is less than half as powerful, so...)
MorphOS is by far the best Amiga NG OS in existence; compared to OS4 (I have both) it has more features, it has better features, it has all the best Amiga standards built in (like Poseidon, CGX, etc, etc), it has better Amiga compatibility, it supports a lot more HW (both in terms of systems and peripheral HW), yet it costs a lot less, and it even comes with a 30 minutes unlimited "try before you buy" demo mode.
To me it's a no-brainer, go for the Mac Mini (if you can find the 1.5/64MB VRAM model). Or why not a laptop? MorphOS supports plenty of models! ;) But if you still want to go the Sam460 route, then you will probably be pleased to know that MorphOS will soon support that HW as well, perhaps already in the next release even... :)
Happy Hunting!
:)
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You need a fast G4 to measure up, not just anyone
The 1.5GHz Mac Mini *does* have a fast G4, AFAIK only some PowerBook models (and third party Power Mac CPU modules) are faster. The fastest G4 PowerBook laptops beats (or runs on par) the X1000 in most CPU intensive tasks, the Mac Mini shouldn't fall that far behind.
I don't think there is any G4 dual core MacMini's.
Amiga is single core.
Period.
Anyway G5's are more simular to the PA6T.
In an Amiga context (single core, 32-bit, etc), the fastest G4 Macs are faster than the X1000. And the later G5 models runs it into the ground.
(And just as a parenthesis to illustrate where "the world" is today (while PPC "Amigas" has remained in 2005), the "A8" ARM CPU developed in-house by Apple and used in the iPhone 6 scores just below a 2.5GHz G5 in spec int... ;))
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You need a fast G4 to measure up, not just anyone, I don't think there is any G4 dual core MacMini's..
OS 4 only uses one core of the PA6T.
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In terms of age...
SAm is almost new 1 to 2 yrs old...mac mini is many years old and in it's little case has been heating and cooling those caps...
ALL old hardware is getting harder to find parts for...
The Mac Mini G4 was on sale until around 2005/6, that's only a decade old. You're on Amiga.org where lots of us still use Commodore computers up to 30 years old or more, I really don't think the G4 Mini is old in comparison.
Besides, they made millions of Minis, yours develops a problem, pick up a new one off ebay for $50. If your Sam develops a fault a few years down the line though, that's going to be an expensive venture to replace.
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Mac Mini runs MorphOS if you like that.
Sam460 / AmigaOne-X1000 runs AmigaOS4.1
So if you don't like MorphOS, it should not be too hard to chose, right :-).
And vice versa too, of course :)
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The cheapest Mac Mini I've seen went for 40 USD (machine and power cord, nothing else). It was of course the lowest specs, but it's hard to argue with the price.
But you do have to add 79 Euro to the price for a registred MorphOS. The good thing about SAM460 is that a AmigaOS 4.1 licence is included. So it's actually a little more expensive than you would first think. However, you can of course try out the 30 minute version for free and as much as you like.
The SAM460 can use better GFX cards as well. The Mini usually have terrible VRAM by todays standard (32 MB). If you want the "Silent upgrade" model with 64 MB VRAM it will cost a lot more than 40 USD. Probably somewhere around 200 USD or more. Plus the MorphOS license. It's still cheaper than a SAM460 motherboard though (and a whole computer will cost much more).
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It will be interesting to see what graphics and video performance will be achieved on Sam460 machines with MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.1 with Warp3d and the new RadeonHD v2.4 driver and AmigaOS 4.2 .
The Mac Mini is at least 2x as fast, probably more in some circumstances. This becomes very obvious when for example watching videos (under MorphOS the Mini can play most x.264 720p streams without frame skipping) and browsing websites of the heavier kind. MorphOS has pretty solid support for the Mac Mini HW, the GFX is for example completely supported (2D + 3D acceleration, Overlay), even the Airport Extreme WiFi card (if present) is supported.
The Mac Mini is a very cool little machine. It's compact and powerful - in PPC terms of course (which honestly is quite weak by today's standards, but then again, the Sam460 is less than half as powerful, so...)
MorphOS is by far the best Amiga NG OS in existence; compared to OS4 (I have both) it has more features, it has better features, it has all the best Amiga standards built in (like Poseidon, CGX, etc, etc), it has better Amiga compatibility, it supports a lot more HW (both in terms of systems and peripheral HW), yet it costs a lot less, and it even comes with a 30 minutes unlimited "try before you buy" demo mode.
To me it's a no-brainer, go for the Mac Mini (if you can find the 1.5/64MB VRAM model). Or why not a laptop? MorphOS supports plenty of models! ;) But if you still want to go the Sam460 route, then you will probably be pleased to know that MorphOS will soon support that HW as well, perhaps already in the next release even... :)
Happy Hunting!
:)
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64MB is enough for full HD screens and graphics will be faster on G4 thanks to faster CPU and AltiVec.
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Anyone want to do a mplayer benchmark using the following video ?
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Mplayer/Superman.flv
mplayer -quiet -nosound -benchmark Superman.flv
BENCHMARKs: VC: 28.429s VO: 10.055s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.529s = 39.013s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 72.8722% VO: 25.7731% A: 0.0000% Sys: 1.3547% = 100.0000%
Sam460ex results from
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=91172#forumpost91172
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With my Mac mini 1.5GHz (I didn't shut down any programs, I had browser, amircs etc running):
BENCHMARKs: VC: 10.910s VO: 2.542s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.354s = 13.806s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 79.0239% VO: 18.4125% A: 0.0000% Sys: 2.5636% = 100.0000%
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2.83 times faster than Sam460ex .
Close to X1000 performance below
mplayer-altivec -quiet -nosound -benchmark -ao null -vo comp::argb Superman.flv
BENCHMARKs: VC: 6.228s VO: 3.852s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.253s = 10.332s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 60.2760% VO: 37.2801% A: 0.0000% Sys: 2.4439% = 100.0000%
With my Mac mini 1.5GHz (I didn't shut down any programs, I had browser, amircs etc running):
BENCHMARKs: VC: 10.910s VO: 2.542s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.354s = 13.806s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 79.0239% VO: 18.4125% A: 0.0000% Sys: 2.5636% = 100.0000%
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Anyone want to do a mplayer benchmark using the following video ?
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Mplayer/Superman.flv
post_id=91172#forumpost91172[/url]
Powerbook 5.6 (1.667 GHz)
BENCHMARKs: VC: 7.819s VO: 3.808s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.255s = 11.882s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 65.8037% VO: 32.0497% A: 0.0000% Sys: 2.1466% = 100.0000%
VO: Enabling blanker
Pretty close to X1000.
While I prefer MorphOS over OS4 I must say the Sam 460 is an interesting machine though. Albeit a bit expensive. But it's new (which in some occasions is a plus) and speed is okay for many things.
Generally I don't have concerns to buy used computers, I never had a failure and my mini is up and running since 5 years (-3 days to be precise, MorphOS 2.4 got released on 12 October 2009) now. If it fails tomorrow I just head over to ebay and get a replacement machine which costs pocket money only (quick check on ebay.de reports G4 1.5 GHz mini 1 GB RAM 64 MB VRAM, refurbished with 1 year warranty starting at 109 EUR). It's a easy shot. If you don't like it dump it off to ebay again and get the similar amount back.
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Powerbook 5.6 (1.667 GHz)
BENCHMARKs: VC: 7.819s VO: 3.808s A: 0.000s Sys: 0.255s = 11.882s
BENCHMARK%: VC: 65.8037% VO: 32.0497% A: 0.0000% Sys: 2.1466% = 100.0000%
VO: Enabling blanker
Pretty close to X1000.
Not really, because your comparing bananas with apples.
Your comparing ARGB bitmap graphics with YUV420 overlay, two different technology’s.
YUV420p is a 12bit format vs ARGB a 32bit format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV
ARGB = 640x480*4 = 1 228 800 bytes
YUV420p = 640x480*6/4 = 460 800 bytes
ARGB takes 266% more space then YUV420p, conversion & bandwidth is also costly when you most use ARGB.
So basically the AmigaONE-X1000 has to work harder to display the same graphics.
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The Mac Mini does have altivec, though. Saying it's nearly 3x faster is not accurate, as most apps don't benefit from Altivec to that extent. Of course if all you want to do is use Altivec apps, then yes, it's fair... but that's not what the poster asked.
Yes, the Mac Mini is faster, though.... just not 3 times faster for most things.
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Not really, because your comparing bananas with apples.
Your comparing ARGB bitmap graphics with YUV420 overlay, two different technology’s.
YUV420p is a 12bit format vs ARGB a 32bit format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV
ARGB = 640x480*4 = 1 228 800 bytes
YUV420p = 640x480*6/4 = 460 800 bytes
ARGB takes 266% more space then YUV420p, conversion & bandwidth is also costly when you most use ARGB.
So basically the AmigaONE-X1000 has to work harder to display the same graphics.
Sorry, but that's just a (lame) attempt of a academic excuse.
I compare exactly one thing:
How fost does my powerbook replay a certain video and how fast does it an X1000 or Sam460.
Today, reproducible and reliable. Why the result is like it is is not of my interest. I wanna watch that video, not think about the technical internals. And I give a certain brown matter about what could be in future. It matters what's actually there. And for that i provided numbers. They speak for themselves.
But hey, yeah - two more weeks and everything's brilliant of course.
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Sorry, but that's just a (lame) attempt of a academic excuse.
I compare exactly one thing:
How fost does my powerbook replay a certain video and how fast does it an X1000 or Sam460.
Today, reproducible and reliable. Why the result is like it is is not of my interest. I wanna watch that video, not think about the technical internals. And I give a certain brown matter about what could be in future. It matters what's actually there. And for that i provided numbers. They speak for themselves.
But hey, yeah - two more weeks and everything's brilliant of course.
Well, I'm just saying if you like to know how fast PA5T is. FFMEG might be nice benchmark tool, or maybe you can benchmark MP3 Decoding.
Try not to compare things that use overlay with things that do not.
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Please guys, don't fight.
I was the one who brought up the mplayer benchmarks.
Before my Sam460ex got fried and before the LiveForit Mplayer,
the Sam460ex was the machine that I watched videos on.
I would just convert them to xvid using a quad core pc
and they played back on the Sam460ex nicely.
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Before my Sam460ex got fried
is there no way to repair 3-4 years old board?
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Not in my case.
a power supply failure burned out a piece of the motherboard and took the video card out too.
is there no way to repair 3-4 years old board?
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Generally I don't have concerns to buy used computers, I never had a failure and my mini is up and running since 5 years (-3 days to be precise, MorphOS 2.4 got released on 12 October 2009) now.
Yeah, I haven't had problems with used computers either. Only problem was that year ago one of my a1200s died, but it was a find which was stored on outside in the rain in pile of junk and it had got rusty all over, but still it worked fine for years :)
But anyway, my newest computer is Powerbook which is 8 years old now. My old Peg1 (bought used) and even classic Amigas work still. And my newest PC is from 2004 and working fine too. Mac mini has been the daily machine since release of the MorphOS for it and still going strong.
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The Mac Mini does have altivec, though. Saying it's nearly 3x faster is not accurate, as most apps don't benefit from Altivec to that extent. Of course if all you want to do is use Altivec apps, then yes, it's fair... but that's not what the poster asked.
Yes, the Mac Mini is faster, though.... just not 3 times faster for most things.
Any application having graphics or sound output benefit from AltiVec. It is not sitting there unused waiting that some app has specialized AltiVec routines.
But yes, not 3 times faster for most things although Mac Mini G4 will be faster in general.