Amiga.org
Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: kickstart on September 21, 2014, 07:11:57 PM
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After another closed thread without reason i have a question? Where go this forum with this kind of moderation and ownership?
New of phoenixconsole deleted from the news section.
This sales of a guy closed because some stupid reasons of "rights" like if amiga kit and crew had all the rights and clould judge everything related with amiga.
My infraction on my profile for "insults" and the answer from moderators: "its a bug".
More threads closed just for someone dont like opinions.
This is a nice example of how to administrate a forum (ironic)... its a big error that a "comercial brand" buy an amateur forum made by users.
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for the record, amigakit has send me a pm today to clear things. They said that there are multiple moderators and would help to clear why the news has been removed.
The guy with the AmigaMini doesn't care (or is light hearted / with no evil background/badly informed) about rules as Amigakit or other have to do else they would get sued from one of the other camp .... Gentleman like : )
I warned the guy at Facebook about the "grey area" he is walking in but it is his problem. From a forum point of view this had to be closed because it is "technically" piracy.
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Stuff around here getting ridiculous. Time to sign up for EAB.
I used to like Amigakit, but after seeing the attitudes expressed towards other people supporting the amiga scene, all the edited,deleted and locked threads I just won't buy anything from them ever again.
talk about doing more harm than good.
Its pretty clear now that some people are on power trips and think they should be able to filter, control or edit content here.
The amiga mini thing is ridiculous. So if he just called it "The amigo mini" and shipped it with a licensed copy of amiga forever all would be okay?
it runs amiga os, it runs amiga software, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him calling that an amiga mini.
The trademark holders can't even be proven who they are at this point. (or what marks are still valid) its all one big shell game the amiga grave robbers continue to play. (and things like this ridiculousness allow it to continue)
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You have to respect ownership and IP's.
Personally I think this extra moderation is good, and I am also very satisfied with the fact, that we are no longer getting mac news and what not.
"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
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You have to respect ownership and IP's.
Respect for all parts but where is the respect by the owners part? Here just exist one opinion.
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@thread
if you have a problem with the site or its policies, bring them up in a PM to one of the moderators, matthew, or trevor. or you can open a thread in the dedicated forum (http://www.amiga.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) we have for this purpose, which is where i'm moving this thread for now. thanks.
-- eliyahu
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@eliyahu
...
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"Its my party and i cry if i want to"... this is the reesume of your post.
PS: Im still waiting the deletion of the infraction on my profile, this "bug" you remember.
PS2: PM are totally useless with moderators like you can see.
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Bottom line, piracy is Piracy. there is really no two ways about it. These are the rules here. if you don't like them. Go to a forum where there are no rules and watch the trolls take over.
@haywirepc
As for you. I personally think that YOU do more harm than good with your constant twisting and perverting the facts. what's probably pissing you off, is that we here at Amiga.org can see right though it.
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@kjmann
Haywirepc just say an opinion and is on a.org enought time to give opinions, you are a new user and a moderator, can you moderate opinions of the people?
And please forget the old piracy chat, all of us are expert users of xcopy.
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Respect for all parts but where is the respect by the owners part? Here just exist one opinion.
Yes your opinion it would seem.
After another opened thread without reason, I have a question? Where is this forum user "kickstart" going with this kind of constant pointless trolling?
The thread was left open after one gentle nudge, it continued to spiral. So it was closed.
If you actually read the posts you would have seen warning.
You keep starting threads and saying what ever you want. When someone says anything against what your saying, you cry foul every single time and start another pointless thread moaning about that. Almost every single thread your involved in goes off topic and by the end has atleast 3 seperate topics in 1 thread.
Then your demanding mods, remove an infraction because someone said its a bug.
Ever thought another mod may have given you that infraction, not every one can be online all the time to know exactly what other mods are doing.
Now please can we stop all this. This is another thread that is going off topic again.
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@follet
After your silly joke trying to ridiculize me... no ones cry here (well you crying now) me and other people just give opinions, if you dont like these opinion sorry but is not a reason for censure, edit or close a thread.
The suposed infraction mod is eliyahu, after some PM messages nothing is clear just "is a bug", "unfortunately the infraction system makes you choose from canned reasons"... but you gave an opinion without know anything, with bad manners and joking around.
Maybe you are a nice person but like moderator....
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@follet
After your silly joke trying to ridiculize me... no ones cry here (well you crying now) me and other people just give opinions, if you dont like these opinion sorry but is not a reason for censure, edit or close a thread.
The suposed infraction mod is eliyahu, after some PM messages nothing is clear just "is a bug", "unfortunately the infraction system makes you choose from canned reasons"... but you gave an opinion without know anything, with bad manners and joking around.
Maybe you are a nice person but like moderator....
The joke was ment to lighten the mood.
I have never edited or censored anyones posts / threads.
I have closed threads but only after warning.
Well, I looked at your account and it reports no infractions. Thats where my opinion came from.
You have to realise we are amigans to and also have an opinion, I get fedup of people saying I can't have an opinion just because I work at amigakit.
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@kickstart
as explained you earned an infraction and posting restriction for repeatedly discussing moderation decisions publicly after repeated warnings. unfortunately the system only has certain choices, and i chose the wrong one. after your posting restriction expired, and you complained, i reversed the infraction. the system shows that it was reversed because of that clerical mistake. but it can't be completely removed.
you earned an infraction. deal with it. i was trying to be nice by reversing it because the reason given was incorrect and you were unhappy. i thought this might make you happy -- but, no. this is just absurd. enough already.
-- eliyahu
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@eliyahu
Your PMs dont say the same... but ok, is like talk with a table, if want to have the reason its your lucky day.
Moderation on this forums always fault but with this new wave is worst than ever, close the thread, edit it, ban me, put and infraction... if need it =)
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@eliyahu
Your PMs dont say the same... but ok, is like talk with a table, if want to have the reason its your lucky day.
Moderation on this forums always fault but with this new wave is worst than ever, close the thread, edit it, ban me, put and infraction... if need it =)
I will look into the infraction problem tomorrow.
Just calm down, you keep making things into something they are not.
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@kjmann
Haywirepc just say an opinion and is on a.org enought time to give opinions, you are a new user and a moderator, can you moderate opinions of the people?
And please forget the old piracy chat, all of us are expert users of xcopy.
LOL. That's funny. I have been an Amiga user since 1989. I have reading the A.org forums for several years, but Never needed to jump in to a conversation before, hence I only made an account shortly before becoming a moderator.
I was given moderator status because of my knowledge for Amiga software and hardware and that fact that I wont put up with trolls like you.
grow a spine and deal with the fact that people are not going to always see things your way. you do a lot of complaining and haywirepc just likes to twist the truth to fit his version of the information at hand.
as for the piracy comment, it's not surprising to me that you know how to use XCopy very well. people like you just copy what you want when you want it. I payed for every game that I have. can you make the same claim?
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HO
LY
CRAP!
I can't leave you all alone for a minute can I?
First off the fact that you, Kickstart, keep challenging moderator decissions is not just an infraction, but a complete lack of respect for the rules. Forget other mods, I'm going to review EVERY post you've made in the last three months and give you an infraction point for EACH time you've crossed the line WITH an expination. You'll also get a weeks susspention for each infraction.
Haywire, the owners of the site are are held legally reponsable for everything posted. They have to make sure things are not just on the up and up but kept clear away from the grey areas including copy write infingment and pirating.
You all are grown ups! Why does this have to happen? There are rules! There is also a thing called common curtisy. Why must these escalted comments and empty ended threats be the point dissagreements end in?
The mods are resonable and willing to work things out but not when you disrespect them and the site owners.
I'm only going to say this once. Play nice or leave!
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You all are grown ups! Why does this have to happen? There are rules! There is also a thing called common curtisy. Why must these escalted comments and empty ended threats be the point dissagreements end in?
The reason this has happened is extremely simple: we've seen around half a dozen threads closed in the last week-and-change utterly without comment from any of the moderators, several of which were not for any immediately apparent reason and which could be interpreted (depending on your angle) as putting the personal interests of the site owner over the actual purpose of the community. That's not to say that that was the case, or that there weren't valid reasons at play, but this fly-by-night lock-without-comment thing does not inspire confidence in us mere mortals, and invites speculation.
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What facts did I twist or pervert? Thats more ridiculousness.
What about Phoenixconsole's news items getting deleted? His work does not violate anything... Its pd and open source. I like seeing his news and progress, so do most people interested in AMIGA. They are relevant and should be allowed here. (as should any amiga news related item or progress update on any amiga related project)
I'm glad I am not the only one noticing all the deleted, locked and edited threads lately. And yes, these things happening without comment invites speculation.
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it runs amiga os, it runs amiga software, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him calling that an amiga mini.
The guy was selling pirated software. No matter what you think about copyright or 'abandonware' in general - people selling pirated content have always been called names. I don't get why this kind of behaviour is suddenly tolerated or even described as somehow benign to the community.
On top of that: he got one warning, which he completely ignored. His thread was locked and he opened a new one with the exact same wording. That's the kind of user you certainly do not want in a decent forum.
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which could be interpreted (depending on your angle) as putting the personal interests of the site owner over the actual purpose of the community.
Can you list a few examples? I'm reluctant to accept phoenixkonsole's famous "deleted news item" as evidence, simply because most of his news items are about as relevant and realistic as your average DiscreetFX press release.
The only other case I know is my news item about the Amiga-News WinUAE PPC poll which had been posted but the thread was closed from the beginning. But that's not "half a dozen threads".
That said: This place has been run like that for a decade and a half - I recently saw Wayne Hunt finally admitting on whyzzat that he was just trying to cash out (http://www.whyzzat.com/threads/wait-a-tick-amiga-org-was-sold-again.27492/#post-76368) in the later years - so I'm not sure why I still bother.
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The only other case I know is my news item about the Amiga-News WinUAE PPC poll which had been posted but the thread was closed from the beginning. But that's not "half a dozen threads".
hmmm. i approved that thread, so not sure why it's closed. anyway -- i just reopened it. :)
-- eliyahu
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What about Phoenixconsole's news items getting deleted? His work does not violate anything... Its pd and open source. I like seeing his news and progress, so do most people interested in AMIGA. They are relevant and should be allowed here. (as should any amiga news related item or progress update on any amiga related project)
I'm glad I am not the only one noticing all the deleted, locked and edited threads lately. And yes, these things happening without comment invites speculation.
i can't speak for everyone else, but if someone submits a news item that isn't actually news, i always make sure that it is at least turned into a regular thread. i almost always approve news items; that said there was one that phoenixconsole submitted that i didn't approve because it was an announcement of a coming announcement, but i did make sure it was posted as a normal thread.
i also make sure that before i edit, i warn. and before i lock, i explain that i did and why. that's probably good practice and i think the other mods do similarly, but thanks for bringing it up. i'll go and do a search and see if i can find some examples. if you can point me to some, that would help, too.
-- eliyahu
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@kjmann
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@j-golden
Lack of respect for the rules? I dont see any unrespect of the users that have threads closed, edited or something, and yes... on a normal situation a moderator must give reason for delete, close or edit a thread/post.
Example... the first post i wrote asking for Cammy was deleted by no one knows.
But your next answers will be similar to other answers, then stop this, is getting bored to talk with people who cannot handle errors
If some moderators read opinions and the moderators answer contais the word "troll"... no solution.
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@Kickstart
Regarding the Cammy thread:
I have already explained the reasons for it being unapproved and locked, here it is again: That thread was closed from public consumption because a few concerned members here pointed out that it was a discussion of private personal matters without Cammy being present and volunteering that information. I agreed with that view point because I considered that I would not want details of my private life discussed or viewed by other people on a public forum without first giving my permission or providing that information first hand for all to read.
I hope this clarifies the intention behind the action.
One of the problems was that thread had personal sensitive information in it, once you unapprove it from view, only the moderators can see it and not the general users. Of course before I unapproved it, I entered the reasons for doing it.
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On the subject of possible pirate items being offered for sale here:
This is a reputable community forum. There are users here who may buy items on the basis of community discussion unaware that the item maybe unlicenced or pirated. The actual owners of licences may take action if they can see no moderation of such actions.
In short, we have a duty to our members to ensure Amiga.org stays a reputable website. The events of last week were clearly explained by the moderator at the time: once the threads in question were cleared as having legitimate product for sale, then they would be unlocked. To date we have received no such information.
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I only made an account shortly before becoming a moderator.
I was given moderator status
I don't see the green color highlight for your nick that indicates moderator in the "online" users list. It shows here as black. Actually it's also supposed to show in posts, and I can see it IS working for Eliyahu, who was logged in when I checked.
#6
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deleting user posts have become rather common practice here it seems. i dont even bother to react when i see that a post i had just made have been removed without warning or notice let alone addressed by a comment.
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@wawrzon
If that happens then pmail a moderator querying it. I have not noticed it or had anyone bring it to my attention.
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hmmm. i approved that thread, so not sure why it's closed. anyway -- i just reopened it. :)
Thanks, I appreciate the gesture.
But the more important question (which is not directed at you, obviously) would be why it was closed, and why my inquiries regarding this are being ignored, both in this thread and the thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67884) I opened four weeks ago.
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@wawrzon
If that happens then pmail a moderator querying it. I have not noticed it or had anyone bring it to my attention.
as i say, given my experience with the moderation here and on aw.net, since the same staff covers both sites in the meantime, i dont think it is worth to get into lengthy pm arguments
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@wawrzon
only a couple of mods also moderate at AWN. regardless -- please do PM me (or whichever mod with which you feel most comfortable) when this happens. if someone removes a post, there is a message that mods can see indicating who did it and when. that way i (or whomever) can look into what is going on.
you're gonna have to trust at least one of us with this kind of info if we're going to figure out why this is happening. :)
-- eliyahu
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@Wawrzon
Pmail me with it then or other mods of your choice.
@cgutjahr
Completely missed your thread from a few weeks ago. Maybe instead of opening a thread it would be better to get the mods attention by pmailing ?
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After just reviewing what you originally posted as news item, I do not think think that this is worthy to be approved as a news release. It should be just a forum discussion thread.
We are trying to raise the standards of news items here and encourage them as more formal press releases.
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We are trying to raise the standards of news items here and encourage them as more formal press releases.
That is an oxymoron... There are unfortunately few if not many "Amiga" companies trying to promote their "news" with formal press releases which make them look like clowns.
@eliyahu
If users can trust moderators and site owners or other moderators don't know what is going on.... How can you let site run like this? Should not you communicate with each other? Apparently every moderator is having his own opinion what is good and bad and some just lose their temper. Looks like owners don't care anymore.
Maybe they run their shop like this, too.
(Edit: this site is front end to AmigaKit store. Think that.)
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We are trying to raise the standards of news items here
Obviously. (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68064)
After just reviewing what you originally posted as news item, I do not think think that this is worthy to be approved as a news release.
I do think that a poll which ended up collecting 850 votes (http://www.amiga-news.de/forum/en/umfrage.php?action=showCurResults) is newsworthy, but I'll admit that this is debatable - e.g. an AW moderator refused to post it as news for the same reason you just mentioned.
But there are several problems here:
1. There was no explanation given. On AW, I got a PM from the moderator. I didn't agree with the reasoning, but at least I knew what was going on - and it's their site to run, after all.
2. Given the poll's topic, you're the very last person who should make such a call.
3. I still don't know why the thread was closed and by whom. If it's not newsworthy, move it to a different forum. Why close it?
Maybe instead of opening a thread it would be better to get the mods attention by pmailing ?
I still don't know which moderator closed the thread, I would have had to PM a random mod? Besides, the forum I used is called "Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback", I assumed that's what it was intended for.
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@wawrzon
you're gonna have to trust at least one of us with this kind of info if we're going to figure out why this is happening. :)
-- eliyahu
if it was an isolated example or an oversight, but most obviously it is a regular policy, which i consider a waste of time to argue against.
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@cgutjahr
I hear what you are saying. Please remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. This website has been left unchecked for quite some years, so it will take time to build standards back up. You are right: an explanation to you should have been forthcoming at the time.
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@cgutjahr
Its my opinion that we should be aiming to get the new releases here to the quality standards of the documents at amiga-news.de
After all these years passed at Amiga.org, I know in the future that it will take time to encourage the users submitting the news releases to do so in a standard quality news format.
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@cgutjahr
I no longer own Amiga.org, you can end your one man witch hunt against me anytime.
:(
Trolling against me just makes you look silly. Don't make it so obvious.
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"2. Given the poll's topic, you're the very last person who should make such a call."
:)
I was thinking the same thing...
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ooooooooooooooooooooooooor He's the right person to make the call because he owns the site. The complaints you all are making are understandable but but the way you are presenting them comes off argumentative at best and demeaning and subversive at worst.
On the note of the, "I'm only sharing my opinion" defense, remember the opinions can still break TOS and will be dealt with as such. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it is also their responsibility to share it within TOS and common decency.
Seriously, if someone is saying or doing something that is getting you worked up so much that your response could land you in hot water, remember two things.
1. Whatever they are doing could very well be breaking TOS
and
2. Take a break and calm down before you respond (If you respond)
So examine what they are saying for the thing and check yourself for the second. By doing this you will steer clear of the ban hammer and avoid issues with the mods...
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Seems to be a cosmic alignment, of micro storms in teacups, around here the last few days...
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Does it make you feel like a big man when you wave the banhammer around and jabber about how big and impressive it is, J-Golden? Do you get a little thrill deep inside when you prance around like a hyperactive collie telling those sheep what's what? Do you feel like it's such a big accomplishment that you go around starting threads about it (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66094) so everyone can appreciate how mighty you are?
Screw it, I'm out of here. A whole succession of owners have already run this site into the ground, the moderation seems to be getting increasingly arbitrary and possibly even kowtowing to one person's interests over the actual good of the community, and asking for any measure of assurance that there is still a fair and just system in place just gets you nasty looks, condescending lectures, and threats of the Dread Banhammer. Aorg is a shell of what it was even two years ago, to say nothing of what it used to be when I joined, and EAB, Lemon, and Amibay are all still out there for people who actually care more about the Amiga than about Amigakit. See ya 'round, guys.
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Actually it's not only this site. The whole Amiga thing is coming closer to an end all the time. It's a natural cause, less people is involved with this rare species called Amiga & variants. When you check these sites daily you easily get blind. In 10 years time Amiga.org wiill be like a desert and probably AmigaWorld too, EAB will be the last outpost.
You read it here first. ;)
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Everybody wants something to complain about. But nobody wants to experience things.
1. I was a board member on gaming site that no longer exist.
2. I was a super moderator for another gaming forum.
I really think that some of you have never really experience what some of us have.
3. I did have my own forum for little awhile but it was not busy enough to keep it open.
You have to worry about legal things. We don't need lawsuits. It a lot better to talk with the mod in private than making it everybody business. On the forum I was board member on they didn't put up with that.
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The silliness continues unabated...all this melodrama is entirely disproportionate to the actual size of amiga land.
Can someone change the name of this forum to Amigaland.org:hammer::laugh1:
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The silliness continues unabated...all this melodrama is entirely disproportionate to the actual size of amiga land.
Can someone change the name of this forum to Amigaland.org:hammer::laugh1:
how about "as the boing ball turns?" :lol:
-- eliyahu
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how about "as the boing ball turns?" :lol:
-- eliyahu
This one has my vote!
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This one has my vote!
Sounds like a plan!:laugh1:
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After just reviewing what you originally posted as news item, I do not think think that this is worthy to be approved as a news release. It should be just a forum discussion thread.
We are trying to raise the standards of news items here and encourage them as more formal press releases.
That is an oxymoron... There are unfortunately few if not many "Amiga" companies trying to promote their "news" with formal press releases which make them look like clowns.
*Amen* brother! "Little people" in a hobby community that's *mentally* sitting on high horses writing Microsoft style PR's has always been laughable... :roflmao:
Well, on this subject, some time ago I posted a few news items that I thought would be of public interest; a new version of mplayer for MorphOS as well as the public availability of the fourth beta of E-UAE with PPC JIT for MorphOS. Both were news items about very important MorphOS SW, definitely (IMHO at least) worthy a "heads up" in the news flow!
When time went by and it didn't pop up in the news, and other stuff popped up instead, I made forum posts of it instead.
I also want to point out that those *accepted* news items that followed wasn't exactly written as "formal Press Releases" either.
And neither is this one, approved just the other day: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68050
:confused:
@eliyahu
If users can trust moderators and site owners or other moderators don't know what is going on.... How can you let site run like this? Should not you communicate with each other? Apparently every moderator is having his own opinion what is good and bad and some just lose their temper. Looks like owners don't care anymore.
Maybe they run their shop like this, too.
(Edit: this site is front end to AmigaKit store. Think that.)
*Amen* brother #2!
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@Kickstart
Regarding the Cammy thread:
I have already explained the reasons for it being unapproved and locked, here it is again:
One of the problems was that thread had personal sensitive information in it, once you unapprove it from view, only the moderators can see it and not the general users. Of course before I unapproved it, I entered the reasons for doing it.
Thanks for the update on that.
As to "News" items being "formal press releases", I've gotta say that's a bit of a long bow. Do you need to be a corporation or business to issue a press release?
How about you create a category called "Official Press Releases Only" if you want that category. News by it's defined category is "News and Community Information" and then "Announcements and Press Releases (General announcements as documented) That sounds open to me.
Isn't it normal practice to move the thread to the correct category rather than closing the thread (If that's what happened). That's what Karlos would have done. (But then he is a qualified Sockologist)
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You have to respect ownership and IP's.
"
Problem is that this respect of the IP-"owners"* is outright destructive to the m68k-Amiga-community. Best example are how those who try to upgrade the OS by disassembly, whitch is perfectly legal in many countries, gets banned from forum after forum with reason: Because it is illegal.
*I use; "owners", and not; owners, because of the muddled legal history of the IP claimed to belong to Amiga Inc. And that said; it really baffles me, that companies claiming to support the Amiga-community, keeps supporting these IP-claims.
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I think this thread has run it's course.