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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Software News => Topic started by: apj on September 20, 2014, 09:25:59 AM
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What's new:
* Enabled disc caching.
* Added mobile mode option.
* Fixed many warnings.
* Fixed copy/paste with Amiga+C/V
* Many code clean-ups.
* Added Unicode support to internal font.
* Added scaled glyph rendering to internal font.
Download from http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
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* fixed 100% CPU usage
* fixed restart button in AGA version
* return to wb by clicking on throbber (right upper corner) or
with middle mouse button (AGA)
* added all available options file (Resources/AllOptions)
* press key ctrl+backspace to go back
* assign of netsurf: to netsurf folder is required now
to avoid not finding resource files
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
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* fixed 100% CPU usage
* fixed restart button in AGA version
* return to wb by clicking on throbber (right upper corner) or with middle mouse button (AGA)
* added all available options file (Resources/AllOptions)
* press key ctrl+backspace to go back
* assign of netsurf: to netsurf folder is required now to avoid not finding resource files
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
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I installed this morning (I have been using an older version) and just wanted to say that NetSurf 68k has gotten very, very good! :)
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Thank you! :)
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Congrats! Does this version need a FPU?
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I installed this morning (I have been using an older version) and just wanted to say that NetSurf 68k has gotten very, very good! :)
That's nice to hear. A few years ago the chance of getting a 'new' 68k browser port were very slim and now it's a reality.
Can someone do a video of the latest version running on a fast RTG Amiga (not WinUAE)?
Well done Artur :)
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Super !!!
:):):):)
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That's nice to hear. A few years ago the chance of getting a 'new' 68k browser port were very slim and now it's a reality.
Can someone do a video of the latest version running on a fast RTG Amiga (not WinUAE)?
Well done Artur :)
unfortunately im away from my studio for weeks. otherwise i would probably try.
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What exactly do I need to install as a user to be able to try Netsurf 68k? Currently if I try to run it I get an ixemul.library message window saying: "Abort trap - NetSurf"
When run from shell I get this:
10.WB39:Internet/NetSurf> stack 100000
10.WB39:Internet/NetSurf> netsurf
ERROR: Device 'TCP:' is already mounted
Mount failed returncode 20
Assign failed returncode 20
utils/utf8.c:190: failed assertion `string && from && to && result'
Abort trap
10.WB39:Internet/NetSurf>
Do I need to setup geekgadgets? All I have are the ixemul.library and ixnet.library inside my LIBS: assign.
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One thing to keep in mind if you try it. You need to be using either PAL mode or have PAL in you devs:monitors. Otherwise it cannot seem to find the screen mode it wants. I tried invoking from the command line and appending a ? but didn't get any args listed. Not sure how to specify the screen mode you want.
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One thing to keep in mind if you try it. You need to be using either PAL mode or have PAL in you devs:monitors. Otherwise it cannot seem to find the screen mode it wants. I tried invoking from the command line and appending a ? but didn't get any args listed. Not sure how to specify the screen mode you want.
I tried all three versions (netsurf, netsurf no truetype and also netsurf aga). All gave the same error. Also, I have Pal inside Devs:Monitors. I wonder what is different on my system that it runs on yours but not mine. :/ This is a pretty basic system with boing bag 4 updates (all running using blizkick) plus the usual patches here and there.
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I fixed the problem by adding the following to the options file:
accept_language:tr,en
accept_charset:ISO-8859-9
Now it works.
As a side note, does Netsurf load pictures using datatypes? If that is the case I guess it's taking advantage of warpos warp datatypes freeing the 68k?
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As a side note, does Netsurf load pictures using datatypes?
NetSurf uses internal decoders for common file types. The OS4 frontend additionally registers DataTypes as a fallback, but I don't think the 68k version does, and, in any case, the internal decoders get priority.
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NetSurf 3.3 Dev 2 68k released:
* updated libs: libpng 1.6.16; libcurl 7.38.0; libssl 1.0.1j
* new theme by Ken Lester
* new cursor and throbber animation
* fixed dissappearing pointer
* fixed crash on muidev.de
* removed getvideo. Replaced with mp4.ee API.
Use youtube_autoplay:1 option to enable autoplay after download
Video is saved to ram:video.mp4
* moved scroll*.png to theme/icons
* various bugs and memory leaks fixed
core:
*add trivial maps facilitator at about:maps
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
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Finally an updated, advancing, and modern 68K browser, about time. Three pats on the back and an ata boy! Thanks for your hard work.
Chris
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Thanks! :)
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@apj,
I bet there are some folks out there that may want to contribute to the effort, any place to do so?
Chris
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NetSurf 3.3 Dev 2 68k released:
* updated libs: libpng 1.6.16; libcurl 7.38.0; libssl 1.0.1j
* new theme by Ken Lester
* new cursor and throbber animation
* fixed dissappearing pointer
* fixed crash on muidev.de
* removed getvideo. Replaced with mp4.ee API.
Use youtube_autoplay:1 option to enable autoplay after download
Video is saved to ram:video.mp4
* moved scroll*.png to theme/icons
* various bugs and memory leaks fixed
core:
*add trivial maps facilitator at about:maps
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
Thanks - great browser, works really well on my Amithlon setup. I did notice a couple of things.
-The address bar (where you type in stuff), doesn't provide some functional, to select, shift-delete/backspace (to delete entire line), etc....into the address bar, like IBrowse does. Any chance to add this? I see the icons to copy/paste text into the URL - thanks for that.
Also, http://www.nasawatch.com come out all blue - should be white
And in the new theme the news content on amigaworld.net is dark grey - normal? I'm used to white :)
Awesome work, thanks so much for this Browser!
Darren
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@apj,
I bet there are some folks out there that may want to contribute to the effort, any place to do so?
Chris
There is a donate button :
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
Thanks to all who supported.
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Also, http://www.nasawatch.com come out all blue - should be white
Happens too on OS4 version so not my frontend bug.
You could report it on NetSurf Bugtracker here http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/
And in the new theme the news content on amigaworld.net is dark grey - normal? I'm used to white :)
Thanks, I didn't notice it but I mostly test on this site!
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Happens too on OS4 version so not my frontend bug.
You could report it on NetSurf Bugtracker here http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/
Thanks, I didn't notice it but I mostly test on this site!
Actually the grey content is showing now on google chrome too, so aw.net must have changed something...
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Anybody ever figure out how to get this to work? Now that I finally have enough ram I figured I'd give it a shot.
- Downloaded the 68k version off Aminet
- Went through the entire archive and copied everything in Netsurf directories into my directories (i.e., Netsurf/C into C:, NetSurf/Devs into DEVS:, Netsurf/Fonts into Fonts:, etc.). I also left a copy in the PROGDIR:, just in case.
- - For things that I had already installed that were older, I replaced them with the versions included in the archive (mostly ixemul.library stuff)
- - For things that I had already installed that were newer, I kept my newer versions (i.e., MUI/thebar.mcp)
- Added the NetSurf: assign to my User-Startup
- Checked that I have PAL monitor driver installed (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=778735&postcount=10)
- Added the two lines to the Resources/Options file mentioned in post #12 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=779560&postcount=12) (replaced the two lines that were already in the file)
- Since I noticed them, I also changed "window_width:" and "window_height:" in the Options file to sizes that are more compatible with the resolution of my Workbench, and "disk_cache_size:" to something a little smaller. I didn't count the digits but I think it defaulted to something like 100GB. ;)
- I uncommented the second "Mount" statement in the "Assigns" text file
- MiamiDX is running, from what I read in other threads NetSurf should work with this stack
- I also tried changing Options file "window_depth:" from 32 to 16. No idea what that means but I'm assuming color depth?
After all that, the best I can get when I double-click on any of the three icons is "Attempting to load program NetSurf" at the top of my Workbench, after which it locks up the machine (frozen mouse pointer and everything).
Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work, but I do have my Workbench set to a nice 800x600x16-bit graphics mode that doesn't have any problems with anything else.
Any ideas? Something obvious I'm missing? Or do I have to hunt through the darn Options file and just poke at things until it works, in Typical Amiga Fashion (tm)? ;)
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For the heck of it I also tried bumping my Workbench up to 1024x768, no difference. :(
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alas i cant tell without trying out myself. i see the version on aminet is fairly old. in the meantime i tested too many different versions (i think the links may still be publicly available somewhere here, on eab or ppa) and just lately one that didnt rely on ixemul.library, which was working fairly well. as usual the devil dwells in minor issues, which is why artur has not released anything new yet. in short, if you mind tinkering yourself, i would advise you to wait till next release. other than that you can et snoopdos catch whats missing. i wouldnt copy netsurf stuff all over the place. i think an assign to the directory it has been decompressed to should be enough. with the new version even this isnt necessary.
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@Mike
Last version I managed to get working was 2.7 in 800x600x16 in
Winuae.I'll try new one too but try this in meantime and if it works
try to upgrade and report :rtfm:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nk4dgz1jm0mcczs/Netsurfv2.7-AGA.zip?dl=0
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Hi! Thanks for the responses! I actually downloaded four different versions, but was having a hard time even telling which versions were for 68k, which for OS4, etc. I'm gonna say this is due to insufficient documentation, but probably more due to the fact that I don't know anything about the software and have never used it. Or as we call it in the IT field, "operator error". ;) Was trying "3.3 Dev (http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k)" that said it was uploaded to Aminet 9/29/2014, so I didn't think it was too old.
We block dropbox at my office but I'll download that other version later and give it a shot. What's the worst it can do, not work, right? LOL. :lol: IBrowse still works great for most of the browsing I do on my Miggy, just wanted to try something new. I wish there was better documentation for that "Options" file. I'll keep poking at it! :D
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Hi! Thanks for the responses! I actually downloaded four different versions, but was having a hard time even telling which versions were for 68k, which for OS4, etc. I'm gonna say this is due to insufficient documentation, but probably more due to the fact that I don't know anything about the software and have never used it. Or as we call it in the IT field, "operator error". ;) Was trying "3.3 Dev (http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k)" that said it was uploaded to Aminet 9/29/2014, so I didn't think it was too old.
My non-Framebuffer Alpha is still here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cdyoung/tmp/netsurf_os3.lha). It's likely very slow but I'd be interested to know if it works for you. There's another thread... somewhere... about that.
I wish there was better documentation for that "Options" file. I'll keep poking at it! :D
Try here (http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/desktop/options.h) and here (http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/framebuffer/options.h).
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Just a quick update - Same crash upon loading with the non-framebuffer Alpha version, but I got it running one time with @Blizz1220's version. *MY GOD* was it ever slow! LOL. Not sure how I feel about the interface but the Google homepage looked nice. Then I got a visit from the guru when I tried to open amiga.org. Oh well, I'll keep poking at it! :)
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@Mike
Thanks for trying on real hardware , it works (kinda) in WinUAE
with JIT set to max overdrive and is a little slow even then :roflmao:
All other versions crash for me.I'm sure there is somebody out there
running stable version ...
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@Mike
Thanks for trying on real hardware , it works (kinda) in WinUAE
with JIT set to max overdrive and is a little slow even then :roflmao:
All other versions crash for me.I'm sure there is somebody out there
running stable version ...
I cannot comment other platforms but if you mean the newest (no-ixemul) version from here:
http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/
"NetSurf 3.3 no-ixemul v5 (http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/2015/03/netsurf-33-noixemul-beta.html)
it runs both stable and fast on Aros Vision (most pages are loaded and shown in 5 seconds prior on same hardware it were 20-30 seconds). Of course I have not tested it on "real hardware". In any case you will need "modern resources" when using "modern software". Some ask for newest OWB (that might be ported to Aros 68k) in comparation Netsurf is lean.
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This is probably a dumb question, but how did this software wind up with so many different versions? Is it re-compiled every night by a different team with different hardware, or something?
Obviously somebody didn't follow Joel's laws (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html). :lol:
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This is probably a dumb question, but how did this software wind up with so many different versions? Is it re-compiled every night by a different team with different hardware, or something?
Obviously somebody didn't follow Joel's laws (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html). :lol:
For me relevant is: http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/
the other port was done to get a Reaction GUI and does not work on Aros Vision anyway.
There is of course always newer versions like Netsurf too is in development. There is only the difference between AGA and normal version, new is that it does not need ixemul anymore and is much faster. So as far as I am concerned when using RTG use the normal version without ixemul, without RTG use the AGA version.
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the sdl netsurf is being developed by artur. different versions are the result of transition to noixemul port as well as targeting differen hardware settings, such as aga vs rtg, fast (uae) systems with true type font or without for "lowend" amigas.
ideally, what i would opt for, was one for all version with switchable features, but this depends all on artur. or anyone who would like to join and help him. i from my side can assure the last versio was very promissing, only few problems dragged it down again.
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For me relevant is: http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/
the other port was done to get a Reaction GUI and does not work on Aros Vision anyway.
There is of course always newer versions like Netsurf too is in development. There is only the difference between AGA and normal version, new is that it does not need ixemul anymore and is much faster. So as far as I am concerned when using RTG use the normal version without ixemul, without RTG use the AGA version.
Chris' version of Netsurf 68k is only native version of NEtsurf for 68k Amigas. It uses official sources meant to be used with desktop systems and it has a proper gui. Problem is that Chris is not "very interested" to support 68k Amigas, it is more like a proof of consept than a actual browser.
All other versions use Framebuffer frontend wich is meant to be used with "no gui" sytems and debugging also they are build to top of SDL. Thats why Arthur version from Amiga Netsurf is NOT here http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/ and never will. Frambuffer is not meant to be used like that.
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the sdl netsurf is being developed by artur. different versions are the result of transition to noixemul port as well as targeting differen hardware settings, such as aga vs rtg, fast (uae) systems with true type font or without for "lowend" amigas.
ideally, what i would opt for, was one for all version with switchable features, but this depends all on artur. or anyone who would like to join and help him. i from my side can assure the last versio was very promissing, only few problems dragged it down again.
Thanks! That does clear it up a bit. And agreed. Would be nice to see a single package, that when installed does a couple basic hardware checks on the system and installs the appropriate version. Right now it seems much too difficult for a layman to use. Hopefully it'll all get squared away one day, before even more fragmentation of the codebase occurs. It looks promising though! :)
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All other versions use Framebuffer frontend wich is meant to be used with "no gui" sytems and debugging also they are build to top of SDL. Thats why Arthur version from Amiga Netsurf is NOT here http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/ and never will. Frambuffer is not meant to be used like that.
I looked at that page a few days ago and got even more confused, since even the version on Aminet is newer than those (and those are clearly not 68k). Okay. Huh. I do not understand this concept of "building a web browser with no GUI". How are you supposed to interact with it? Command line? :lol:
Yeah, I think I'll play around a little more with the six or so versions I already have downloaded, and just watch and see. ;)
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Chris' version of Netsurf 68k is only native version of NEtsurf for 68k Amigas. It uses official sources meant to be used with desktop systems and it has a proper gui. Problem is that Chris is not "very interested" to support 68k Amigas, it is more like a proof of consept than a actual browser.
All other versions use Framebuffer frontend wich is meant to be used with "no gui" sytems and debugging also they are build to top of SDL. Thats why Arthur version from Amiga Netsurf is NOT here http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/ and never will. Frambuffer is not meant to be used like that.
I do not care about what is "native version" because it simply not works for me. Arturs version (noixemul) runs pretty fast now, the GUI looks good too.
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I do not care about what is "native version" because it simply not works for me.
A bug report which just states "it does not work" is not very helpful.
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Anyone care to comment on how this performs on a a1200 with blizzard 030 + FPU (64mb) ?
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I looked at that page a few days ago and got even more confused, since even the version on Aminet is newer than those (and those are clearly not 68k). Okay. Huh. I do not understand this concept of "building a web browser with no GUI". How are you supposed to interact with it? Command line? :lol:
Yeah, I think I'll play around a little more with the six or so versions I already have downloaded, and just watch and see. ;)
NetSurf-gcc-json-2787.lha 02-Jun-2015 13:43 5.5M
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Anyone care to comment on how this performs on a a1200 with blizzard 030 + FPU (64mb) ?
Look at the specs for my main A2000 (in my sig). When I was able to get it to run, it ran very poorly. (and that's putting it politely). Obviously I've got some configuration issues still to sort out, but I wouldn't hold a lot of hope for good performance with the system specs you've quoted.
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Netsurf requirements for RiscOS is 16mb ram and 030 equvalent ARM6 CPU. SDL/Framebuffer requires 060 and 64mb ram, so if someone decides continue/help Chris with native version, it would be possible to use it with 030 hopefully.
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SDL/Framebuffer
Every time I hear that word "Framebuffer" I think of Amiga video cards like the Firecracker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framebuffer
Learning about NetSurf is like learning a whole new incomprehensible language, haha. :lol:
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Chris: Could you explain what framebuffer means in this case? I would also like to know what means "no gui systems"?
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Netsurf requirements for RiscOS is 16mb ram and 030 equivalent ARM6 CPU.
I suspect that was an older version of NetSurf but the 68k should have better code density (smaller executable) than ARM processors when optimized (Chris's NetSurf currently isn't optimized). I would recommend 32MB minimum for Chris's NetSurf to be usable in its current state. I would also recommend at least a 68040 for usable speed but a fast 68030+68882 should work. A 68030@50MHz with fast memory is almost as fast as a 68040@25MHz with slow memory for integer performance but lacks the larger caches of the 68040 and the 68882 is a fraction of the performance of the 68040 FPU.
SDL/Framebuffer requires 060 and 64mb ram, so if someone decides continue/help Chris with native version, it would be possible to use it with 030 hopefully.
I don't know if Chris's native NetSurf could be much faster than Arti's version but you are correct that it uses less memory. Chris's version is more forgiving of installation problems but there are known problems including rendering clearing and font crashing for some users (not reproducible here) which make it less than usable, IMO. Most of Arti's NetSurf versions crash after some time on my real Amigas but not in my AmiKit/WinUAE install.
NetSurf is a bear to compile which keeps me from helping more. Wawa had all kinds of trouble and I am even less of a Unix person (I tried Cinnamon Mint but went back to XP). NovaCoder probably could have done some good but he is leaving the Amiga. It would be nice if Arti tried to help Chris more but Arti is still learning programming and has a different philosophy. Part of the problems with Chris's NetSurf is bugs and lack of support in AmigaOS 3.x compared to AmigaOS 4.x. I talked to someone "important" about porting AmigaOS 4.x Reaction to AmigaOS 3.x and there was some interest but Reaction is highly dependent on the intuition.library and graphics.library. There is a known bug in one of the intuition.library BOOPSI classes (parent classes of Reaction and datatypes classes) which I think I could fix with a patch (intuition.library and graphics.library are in ROM) but newly compiled modules with new support and new ROMs are the proper way to add support. Also, the AmigaOS 3.x intuition.library is an inefficient mess currently as the ancient Green Hill compiler requires stubs for all external functions. Updating AmigaOS 3.x to be more API compatible to AmigaOS 4.x would be a major undertaking and take a considerable amount of work. Users may be disappointed without a level of optimization and integration at least equal to AmigaOS 3.9. Current high end (FPGA based) 68k systems are perpetually delayed and/or have other problems I won't go into. There isn't much motivation to do anything as the Amiga hits new lows and dies more everyday.
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Chris's version is more forgiving of installation problems but there are known problems including rendering clearing and font crashing for some users (not reproducible here) which make it less than usable, IMO.
NovaCoder probably could have done some good but he is leaving the Amiga.
There isn't much motivation to do anything as the Amiga hits new lows and dies more everyday.
Aww geeze Matt, your post seriously just made me depressed. You have any good news for us? :(
Where's @danbeaver with some witty pun when we need him? :)
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A bug report which just states "it does not work" is not very helpful.
Oh sorry
it was not about downqualifying your work
it cannot work because you use Reaction but Reaction is closed. I have Classact but Classact and Reaction are not identical
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I suspect that was an older version of NetSurf but the 68k should have better code density (smaller executable) than ARM processors when optimized (Chris's NetSurf currently isn't optimized). I would recommend 32MB minimum for Chris's NetSurf to be usable in its current state. I would also recommend at least a 68040 for usable speed but a fast 68030+68882 should work. A 68030@50MHz with fast memory is almost as fast as a 68040@25MHz with slow memory for integer performance but lacks the larger caches of the 68040 and the 68882 is a fraction of the performance of the 68040 FPU.
I don't know if Chris's native NetSurf could be much faster than Arti's version but you are correct that it uses less memory. Chris's version is more forgiving of installation problems but there are known problems including rendering clearing and font crashing for some users (not reproducible here) which make it less than usable, IMO. Most of Arti's NetSurf versions crash after some time on my real Amigas but not in my AmiKit/WinUAE install.
NetSurf is a bear to compile which keeps me from helping more. Wawa had all kinds of trouble and I am even less of a Unix person (I tried Cinnamon Mint but went back to XP). NovaCoder probably could have done some good but he is leaving the Amiga. It would be nice if Arti tried to help Chris more but Arti is still learning programming and has a different philosophy. Part of the problems with Chris's NetSurf is bugs and lack of support in AmigaOS 3.x compared to AmigaOS 4.x. I talked to someone "important" about porting AmigaOS 4.x Reaction to AmigaOS 3.x and there was some interest but Reaction is highly dependent on the intuition.library and graphics.library. There is a known bug in one of the intuition.library BOOPSI classes (parent classes of Reaction and datatypes classes) which I think I could fix with a patch (intuition.library and graphics.library are in ROM) but newly compiled modules with new support and new ROMs are the proper way to add support. Also, the AmigaOS 3.x intuition.library is an inefficient mess currently as the ancient Green Hill compiler requires stubs for all external functions. Updating AmigaOS 3.x to be more API compatible to AmigaOS 4.x would be a major undertaking and take a considerable amount of work. Users may be disappointed without a level of optimization and integration at least equal to AmigaOS 3.9. Current high end (FPGA based) 68k systems are perpetually delayed and/or have other problems I won't go into. There isn't much motivation to do anything as the Amiga hits new lows and dies more everyday.
We are lucky that you are in good mood today :)
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Well whoever is doing it has my best wishes but
I don't think it will be very practical to use without
future Vampires so maybe wait for hardware that could
handle it and then do the porting.
As far as I've noticed (and I saw a lot of junk , I mean
hardware :roflmao:) fastest 060 is Pentium 1 class CPU so
why bother too much now.
And if all new classic hardware plans fail then there is
always option to just use WinUAE and JIT your way around
a problem , that version I posted works for everything
except youtube for me and is usable , I'm sure other versions
from other authors will be great joy to use too once I get
them to work :laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:
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A bug report which just states "it does not work" is not very helpful.
chris, it wasnt a bug report, just an observation on his part, he is entiteled to.
you have seen how far we got mostly thanks to mattheys exprtise in testing. except me who wasnt much help none stepped forward. it almost proves that porting stuff from os4 to amiga is actually too much hassle.
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Chris' version of Netsurf 68k is only native version of NEtsurf for 68k Amigas. It uses official sources meant to be used with desktop systems and it has a proper gui. Problem is that Chris is not "very interested" to support 68k Amigas, it is more like a proof of consept than a actual browser.
All other versions use Framebuffer frontend wich is meant to be used with "no gui" sytems and debugging also they are build to top of SDL. Thats why Arthur version from Amiga Netsurf is NOT here http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/ and never will. Frambuffer is not meant to be used like that.
so what? could you stop mindlessly repeat stuff about things being "official" or whatever? there is one working browser and another port in an early alpha stage, so whats your problem?
Netsurf requirements for RiscOS is 16mb ram and 030 equvalent ARM6 CPU. SDL/Framebuffer requires 060 and 64mb ram, so if someone decides continue/help Chris with native version, it would be possible to use it with 030 hopefully.
again some buzz words like "native". have you even tried chris version? its considerably slower than the sdl one, and it still doesnt render correctly, far from that. it might catch up, but i doubt, against all claims that have been made a priori, that it will beet it. perhaps simply sdl isnt that slow after all? also, how about you try to help, as far youz can, instead hoping someone else does?
Chris: Could you explain what framebuffer means in this case? I would also like to know what means "no gui systems"?
why are you even arguing if you dont understand it?
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I suspect that was an older version of NetSurf but the 68k should have better code density (smaller executable) than ARM processors when optimized (Chris's NetSurf currently isn't optimized). I would recommend 32MB minimum for Chris's NetSurf to be usable in its current state. I would also recommend at least a 68040 for usable speed but a fast 68030+68882 should work. A 68030@50MHz with fast memory is almost as fast as a 68040@25MHz with slow memory for integer performance but lacks the larger caches of the 68040 and the 68882 is a fraction of the performance of the 68040 FPU.
I don't know if Chris's native NetSurf could be much faster than Arti's version but you are correct that it uses less memory. Chris's version is more forgiving of installation problems but there are known problems including rendering clearing and font crashing for some users (not reproducible here) which make it less than usable, IMO. Most of Arti's NetSurf versions crash after some time on my real Amigas but not in my AmiKit/WinUAE install.
NetSurf is a bear to compile which keeps me from helping more. Wawa had all kinds of trouble and I am even less of a Unix person (I tried Cinnamon Mint but went back to XP). NovaCoder probably could have done some good but he is leaving the Amiga. It would be nice if Arti tried to help Chris more but Arti is still learning programming and has a different philosophy. Part of the problems with Chris's NetSurf is bugs and lack of support in AmigaOS 3.x compared to AmigaOS 4.x. I talked to someone "important" about porting AmigaOS 4.x Reaction to AmigaOS 3.x and there was some interest but Reaction is highly dependent on the intuition.library and graphics.library. There is a known bug in one of the intuition.library BOOPSI classes (parent classes of Reaction and datatypes classes) which I think I could fix with a patch (intuition.library and graphics.library are in ROM) but newly compiled modules with new support and new ROMs are the proper way to add support. Also, the AmigaOS 3.x intuition.library is an inefficient mess currently as the ancient Green Hill compiler requires stubs for all external functions. Updating AmigaOS 3.x to be more API compatible to AmigaOS 4.x would be a major undertaking and take a considerable amount of work. Users may be disappointed without a level of optimization and integration at least equal to AmigaOS 3.9. Current high end (FPGA based) 68k systems are perpetually delayed and/or have other problems I won't go into. There isn't much motivation to do anything as the Amiga hits new lows and dies more everyday.
sad news that nova is leaving, but cant blame him. id probably be able to compile netsurf, with chris help but at some point ive lost temper. im not very patient person. and netsurf build system is too complicated. on aros you simple do configure and make, its easier to try things out and finally contribute something. i doubt i could have done that with netsurf,so after seing how far arti has got with the sdl version i felt it wasnt worth a hassle and turned to other things.
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I cannot comment other platforms but if you mean the newest (no-ixemul) version from here:
http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/
"NetSurf 3.3 no-ixemul v5 (http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/2015/03/netsurf-33-noixemul-beta.html)
it runs both stable and fast on Aros Vision (most pages are loaded and shown in 5 seconds prior on same hardware it were 20-30 seconds). Of course I have not tested it on "real hardware". In any case you will need "modern resources" when using "modern software". Some ask for newest OWB (that might be ported to Aros 68k) in comparation Netsurf is lean.
No bueno on either of the versions included in the "NetSurf 3.3 no-ixemul v5" archive, either. System completely locks up after the "Attempting to load program NetSurf" message. Mouse pointer unresponsive, hard drive light stays solid lit. :(
I guess I just don't understand the point of developing an Amiga web browser that only works on emulated Amiga's? If only we could get all you talented guys to pitch together on an update to IBrowse, instead! :lol:
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I would also like to know what means "no gui systems"?
It probably means environments without a GUI such as a Unix variant that doesn't boot into a GUI, or MS-Dos (just an example).
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No bueno on either of the versions included in the "NetSurf 3.3 no-ixemul v5" archive, either. System completely locks up after the "Attempting to load program NetSurf" message. Mouse pointer unresponsive, hard drive light stays solid lit. :(
I guess I just don't understand the point of developing an Amiga web browser that only works on emulated Amiga's? If only we could get all you talented guys to pitch together on an update to IBrowse, instead! :lol:
If OWB is ported it will not work on "real" Amiga either because of missing RAM. It creates incentive to offer and buy new and better hardware otherwise people discuss why needing more than 64 MB for 68k. Emulated platforms will always be ahead of real hardware but they will create the incentives and the playground for real hardware.
Regarding topic... perhaps you could offer a error log?
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Aww geeze Matt, your post seriously just made me depressed. You have any good news for us? :(
Where's @danbeaver with some witty pun when we need him? :)
Matt had some different views and emotional debates about where a certain project should go to.
Regarding Novacoder sorry to hear that he leaves. I thought he would rethink when new FPGA based solutions become reality. He was one of the few hardcore 68k asm developers left. But life will go on and in opposite to what Matt says or thinks the platform is not dying.
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Oh sorry
it was not about downqualifying your work
it cannot work because you use Reaction but Reaction is closed. I have Classact but Classact and Reaction are not identical
Reaction is included in OS3.5/3.9. Oh, I've just realised you're the AROS guy. That explains it then, fine.
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I guess I just don't understand the point of developing an Amiga web browser that only works on emulated Amiga's?
Me neither, which is why I was targeting 030+AGA for my version. Sadly I don't really have the motivation/knowledge to do much more with it, and nobody else is interested (I wouldn't have got as far as I did without Matthey's help though) so it has stalled. In particular, there's an optimisation bug which really could do with being fixed.
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sad news that nova is leaving, but cant blame him. id probably be able to compile netsurf, with chris help but at some point ive lost temper. im not very patient person. and netsurf build system is too complicated. on aros you simple do configure and make
It is just "make" with a few parameters, the problem is you have to build quite a few things in the right order and cross-compiling complicates matters.
There are pre-built toolchains for x64 Debian here, which might simplify it a bit: http://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/toolchains/ (m68k-unknown-amigaos-18 is the latest one at the moment)
With that in situ the libs should build with "sudo make HOST=m68k-unknown-amigaos install" and NetSurf with "make TARGET=amigaos3"
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Regarding topic... perhaps you could offer a error log?
I would be glad to, if you could offer some advice how to do that?
Like I said, I install the program in Netsurf: directory (removing any previous files from the other versions I've tried), double-click either of the icons, it says "Attempting to load program Netsurf" in the title bar, then the machine completely locks up. Mouse pointer doesn't move and hard drive activity light stays solid lit. Nothing I can do beyond that point other than flip the power.
Only version I was able to get working was one of the old 2.7 builds. It loaded Google homepage but was so slow as to be unusuable, then guru'd when I tried to load Amiga.org.
Sorry that feedback isn't terribly helpful. You can see my A2000 system specs in my sig, so while I'm not trying to run it on "the latest & greatest" hardware, my system isn't exactly a slouch, either. Just not sure where to go from here. It may very well be something in the "Options" file, but since I don't understand what any of those options do, I'm kind of shooting blind! :confused:
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I would be glad to, if you could offer some advice how to do that?
Like I said, I install the program in Netsurf: directory (removing any previous files from the other versions I've tried), double-click either of the icons, it says "Attempting to load program Netsurf" in the title bar, then the machine completely locks up. Mouse pointer doesn't move and hard drive activity light stays solid lit. Nothing I can do beyond that point other than flip the power.
Only version I was able to get working was one of the old 2.7 builds. It loaded Google homepage but was so slow as to be unusuable, then guru'd when I tried to load Amiga.org.
Sorry that feedback isn't terribly helpful. You can see my A2000 system specs in my sig, so while I'm not trying to run it on "the latest & greatest" hardware, my system isn't exactly a slouch, either. Just not sure where to go from here. It may very well be something in the "Options" file, but since I don't understand what any of those options do, I'm kind of shooting blind! :confused:
do you have my last Aros Vision somewhere? The version there works (at least in Aros Vision). You find it in Internet/Netsurf
I am not sure if Netsurf works without RTG except Netsurf AGA
just found it... it seems that RTG is requirement (except Netsurf AGA)
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do you have my last Aros Vision somewhere? The version there works (at least in Aros Vision). You find it in Internet/Netsurf
I am not sure if Netsurf works without RTG except Netsurf AGA
just found it... it seems that RTG is requirement (except Netsurf AGA)
Hi @olafS3,
I'm not familiar with AROS Vision, but after some googling I downloaded the version "direct download (Aros Vision RTG)" from http://www.aros-platform.de/.
I do have RTG, am running the latest version of P96 from here: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Picasso96.htm on a GVP Spectrum graphics card. I run my Workbench in 800x600x16-bit color, I also tried switching to 1024x768 but that made no difference (NetSurf crashed the same way).
I extracted the folder "Internet\NetSurf-m68k" from your archive (I see there was three different versions: "NetSurf", "NetSurf8Bit", and "NetSurf-m68k"... I assume I extracted the correct one?) and copied it onto my Amiga into the NetSurf: folder.
Double-clicked on "NetSurf" (not "NetSurfAGA" and not "NetSurf-nottf"), and the computer crashed in exactly the same way.
Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work... what is the "nottf" version? I see this one a lot, too. "nottf" I assume stands for "No TrueType Fonts"? What does that mean? Aside from having something to do with the TrueType fonts in the \Fonts directory, I assume?
I also went into the Resources\Options file and tried poking around in there for a bit. This is where the lack of documentation starts to become frustrating. A few examples:
memory_cache_size:2097152
disc_cache_size:1073741825
What is that, bytes? Kbytes? The disk cache size defaults to 1,073,741,825 bytes? The memory cache defaults to 2,097,152 bytes? My entire Workbench partition is only 500MB, could it be that the program is crashing on startup because it's trying to allocate a larger disk cache than the entire partition? I've tried adjusting these numbers to more reasonable values manually, with no luck.
window_width:800
window_height:600
window_depth:32
Guessing at these options, too. Could it be that it's crashing because it's trying to open a window at the full size of my Workbench screen? And what is window_depth? My Workbench runs in 800x600x16-bit screenmode. I've tried changing these numbers to more reasonable values, such as a smaller window of 600x400, and changing "window_depth" to 16, also with no luck.
And those are just the options I'm guessing at. The other options are even more cryptic and baffling to me! "min_reflow_period:"? "max_fetchers:20"? "core_select_menu:1"? Perhaps if these options were explained in layman's terms, one could figure out exactly what they're supposed to do and if they could be the reason why it's crashing. :(
Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand. *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order? :D About the only thing I've noticed is depending on how I set them, can make the difference between whether or not I can still move the mouse pointer after the system's locked up. ;)
Of course that's all just hypothetical. It could be crashing because I'm running Birdie and VisualPrefs to spruce up my Workbench a bit. Or maybe it's crashing because I'm running THoR's MMU libraries. Or any of a dozen different reasons. No idea. The system is pretty stable otherwise, just really doesn't seem to like NetSurf for whatever reason. :(
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Hi @olafS3,
I'm not familiar with AROS Vision, but after some googling I downloaded the version "direct download (Aros Vision RTG)" from http://www.aros-platform.de/.
I do have RTG, am running the latest version of P96 from here: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Picasso96.htm on a GVP Spectrum graphics card. I run my Workbench in 800x600x16-bit color, I also tried switching to 1024x768 but that made no difference (NetSurf crashed the same way).
I extracted the folder "Internet\NetSurf-m68k" from your archive (I see there was three different versions: "NetSurf", "NetSurf8Bit", and "NetSurf-m68k"... I assume I extracted the correct one?) and copied it onto my Amiga into the NetSurf: folder.
Double-clicked on "NetSurf" (not "NetSurfAGA" and not "NetSurf-nottf"), and the computer crashed in exactly the same way.
Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work... what is the "nottf" version? I see this one a lot, too. "nottf" I assume stands for "No TrueType Fonts"? What does that mean? Aside from having something to do with the TrueType fonts in the \Fonts directory, I assume?
I also went into the Resources\Options file and tried poking around in there for a bit. This is where the lack of documentation starts to become frustrating. A few examples:
What is that, bytes? Kbytes? The disk cache size defaults to 1,073,741,825 bytes? The memory cache defaults to 2,097,152 bytes? My entire Workbench partition is only 500MB, could it be that the program is crashing on startup because it's trying to allocate a larger disk cache than the entire partition? I've tried adjusting these numbers to more reasonable values manually, with no luck.
Guessing at these options, too. Could it be that it's crashing because it's trying to open a window at the full size of my Workbench screen? And what is window_depth? My Workbench runs in 800x600x16-bit screenmode. I've tried changing these numbers to more reasonable values, such as a smaller window of 600x400, and changing "window_depth" to 16, also with no luck.
And those are just the options I'm guessing at. The other options are even more cryptic and baffling to me! "min_reflow_period:"? "max_fetchers:20"? "core_select_menu:1"? Perhaps if these options were explained in layman's terms, one could figure out exactly what they're supposed to do and if they could be the reason why it's crashing. :(
Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand. *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order? :D About the only thing I've noticed is depending on how I set them, can make the difference between whether or not I can still move the mouse pointer after the system's locked up. ;)
Of course that's all just hypothetical. It could be crashing because I'm running Birdie and VisualPrefs to spruce up my Workbench a bit. Or maybe it's crashing because I'm running THoR's MMU libraries. Or any of a dozen different reasons. No idea. The system is pretty stable otherwise, just really doesn't seem to like NetSurf for whatever reason. :(
the newest version is in "Netsurf" (the other two are older versions including the AGA version). I have looked in the documentation and at least for the 2.9 series RTG was a requirement so I do not believe that it works without it. "AGA" needs AGA obviously so without either AGA or RTG it will not work I think.
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What is that, bytes? Kbytes?
Bytes. If you'd read the links I posted earlier you'd know that.
Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand. *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order? :D
This is the problem with using a frontend designed for non-GUI and debugging. All the other frontends have proper prefs GUIs (including mine for OS4, IIRC the prefs window doesn't open on the OS3 build, but as I said before nobody is helping with that so it's unlikely to be fixed anytime soon)
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the newest version is in "Netsurf" (the other two are older versions including the AGA version). I have looked in the documentation and at least for the 2.9 series RTG was a requirement so I do not believe that it works without it. "AGA" needs AGA obviously so without either AGA or RTG it will not work I think.
I do have RTG... Does it require something specific? A certain version of rtg.library, perhaps? Something from CyberGraphX? Like I said before, I'm running absolutely the brand-newest version of P96 available, AFAIK. Oh well, I'm about to give up, LOL. :(
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Bytes. If you'd read the links I posted earlier you'd know that.
Sorry boss, those links were way too technical for reading at 3am. :laughing:
So, to spell it out for a dumb, idiot layman: The default disk cache is set to 1073741825 bytes. Google calculator tells me that rounds down to 1.07 gigabytes. I've installed NetSurf in SYS:Internet/NetSurf directory. My entire SYS: partition (a.k.a. Workbench partition) is only 500 megabytes. So, could one problem potentially be that NetSurf is crashing because it is trying to allocate a disk cache larger than my entire partition size?
And that's just one of the options, LOL! Nevermind, I give up, haha.
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It works fine on Amikit install.
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Well h-e-double-hockeysticks. I managed to get it running again. Since it demonstrated a repeated pattern of crashing every time it accessed my hard disk (CF card), I tried dragging the entire Netsurf directory to RAM:, assigning it there, and running it from there. Just to see what would happen.
I also ramped way down the crazy numbers for those cache values, window size to 600x400, and depth to 16.
Aside from Google thinking I'm in Poland, and it running completely out of memory when I tried to load amiga.org, it did work. :lol:
Some pics attached.
BTW, I watched it count down to zero, and it did crash again shortly after that "almost out of memory" error. I guess 72MB is not enough when running the application from the ram disk. This proves my theory though that it should run on actual classic hardware, but guess I'd probably need at least 128MB and an '060. ;)
Edit: I wonder if it would be possible to run the application from RAM:, but assign the cache location to a hard disk somewhere?
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Edit: I wonder if it would be possible to run the application from RAM:, but assign the cache location to a hard disk somewhere?
Probably not with the Framebuffer version, but you can set the disk cache size to 0 to disable it.
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New version 3.4 Dev is on aminet.
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New version 3.4 Dev is on aminet.
Arti,
See if you can get anywhere with my updated AGA SDL lib over on EAB.
Let me know how you go...
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Let me know how you go...
Hey NovaCoder, I thought you were leaving the Amiga. I expect this is because you need more time or money. Since you are still trying to help, it's less likely that time is the issue, at least at the moment. If you need more time then go do what you need to do and return. Money problems are easier to solve and selling your Amiga equipment is not a good option solely for this reason. You have given a lot to the Amiga community over the years so let us know if you have a money problem. I'm not trying to invade your privacy or anything but we can't help what we don't know. In any case, good luck on whatever you need to do.
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Hi buddy,
Well I could obviously do with the money from selling my gear but that's not the main motivation. I just need to move on to other things, find some new hobbies and interests.
I'll probably keep tweaking my SDL library but the new build of ScummVM that I'm working on will be my last big time consuming game port.
Thanks for all your help on DosBox...we got close!
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Hi Nova,
I have replied next day I got your message.
Have you seen it?
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New AGA version is avaiable for testing.
@Oldsmobile_Mike
How is version 3.4 working for you ?
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New version 3.4 Dev 2 is on aminet.
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I have updated my version too.
Most important change is new Preferences made with MUI.
I made it with MUIBuilder which is great for noobs.
Other than this ttf and non-ttf fonts are now merged into one binary.
Libs and sources has been updated to newest versions.
I've compiled everything with gcc 3.4 because I read it generates better 68k code and produces smaller exe.
Like some users said this version works best under emulated environment.
Archive available from aminet (http://aminet.net/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k.lha)
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I have updated my version too.
Most important change is new Preferences made with MUI.
I made it with MUIBuilder which is great for noobs.
Other than this ttf and non-ttf fonts are now merged into one binary.
Libs and sources has been updated to newest versions.
I've compiled everything with gcc 3.4 because I read it generates better 68k code and produces smaller exe.
Like some users said this version works best under emulated environment.
Archive available from aminet (http://aminet.net/comm/www/NetSurf-m68k.lha)
Hi there - is there any version available that doesn't require a FPU? I see in the changelog - 3.4dev does not require ixemul.library -- but the latest version on aminet does appear to require ixemul.library.. which requires a FPU :).
Just trying to get Netsurf working on my humble ACA1221 (68020@28 mhz, 32MB ram, no FPU) A1200 :).
Thanks!
John H
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Hi there - is there any version available that doesn't require a FPU? I see in the changelog - 3.4dev does not require ixemul.library -- but the latest version on aminet does appear to require ixemul.library.. which requires a FPU :).
Just trying to get Netsurf working on my humble ACA1221 (68020@28 mhz, 32MB ram, no FPU) A1200 :).
Thanks!
John H
My version was working without an FPU, but at some point it decided it needed one.
I can't figure out what I need to do to gcc to get it to default to "-m68020-60 -msoft-float", that should fix it as I think one of the dependencies is building with the wrong options.
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My version was working without an FPU, but at some point it decided it needed one.
I can't figure out what I need to do to gcc to get it to default to "-m68020-60 -msoft-float", that should fix it as I think one of the dependencies is building with the wrong options.
If you disable FPU, please consider to make two different versions.
With 68040 FPU makes big difference, compared to 68060. With 68040 and FPU, Netsurf is actually useable. Disabling FPU makes it about 30% more snail. With 68020/30 with FPU or not, it woun't be useable or at least requires a lots of patience.
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My version was working without an FPU, but at some point it decided it needed one.
I can't figure out what I need to do to gcc to get it to default to "-m68020-60 -msoft-float", that should fix it as I think one of the dependencies is building with the wrong options.
Why don't the two of you join forces and get a unified version out? Seems silly to have two people working on two versions of the same thing.
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If you disable FPU, please consider to make two different versions.
With 68040 FPU makes big difference, compared to 68060. With 68040 and FPU, Netsurf is actually useable. Disabling FPU makes it about 30% more snail. With 68020/30 with FPU or not, it woun't be useable or at least requires a lots of patience.
making multiple binaries simply adds up to the mess. 30% is not a big deal what concenrs usability. if some page loads two minutes it doesnt make it critical if it needs three. the binary should be compiled against existing libraries, in this case the math libs, and the system should decide, if it has fpu or if it needs to use soft floats. then people can simply try to use netsurf with a 68020 and see if it suiets them.
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making multiple binaries simply adds up to the mess. 30% is not a big deal what concenrs usability. if some page loads two minutes it doesnt make it critical if it needs three. the binary should be compiled against existing libraries, in this case the math libs, and the system should decide, if it has fpu or if it needs to use soft floats. then people can simply try to use netsurf with a 68020 and see if it suiets them.
You are right, 2 or 3 minits is about a same. But with 040 it matter of useability, if loading time rises from 40 seconds to 60, it is huge leap of patience. 40 seconds is OK, minit start to be long time? With 060 difference ist not that big, just few seconds.
Could it be possible to make it support tool types? So that FPU could be enabled/disabled that way.
Though, one question is Chris still interested to develop Netsurf further? There has been extreme low interest to Netsurf. Arthur's version is OK under emulation, but not with real Amiga. I ques that both of them has very few users. No feedback, no bug repoerts, etc
I gotta say that I'm actually very surprized how fast Chris' build is. I thought that something like 2x slower would be maximum speed. It starts to be as fast as iBrowse is when downloading this site.
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Could it be possible to make it support tool types? So that FPU could be enabled/disabled that way.
either tool types or some proper perfs file or program (i know about the one in resources, but not everybody gets that, even if it contained an appropriate entry)
Though, one question is Chris still interested to develop Netsurf further? There has been extreme low interest to Netsurf. Arthur's version is OK under emulation, but not with real Amiga. I ques that both of them has very few users. No feedback, no bug repoerts, etc
thats normal. you need to accustom to this, its only not that visible on other systems, since amiga and especailly whatever spinn off it has really very few (able) users.
I gotta say that I'm actually very surprized how fast Chris' build is. I thought that something like 2x slower would be maximum speed. It starts to be as fast as iBrowse is when downloading this site.
downloading or rendering?
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Chris - any chance you'd have an older non-FPU version on hand? I don't need the latest, just wanted to play around a bit.. Greatly appreciated :)..
(Figuring it'll be a while before Vampire A1200 is out and makes web browsing.. a lot better!)
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Chris - any chance you'd have an older non-FPU version on hand? I don't need the latest, just wanted to play around a bit.. Greatly appreciated :)..
(Figuring it'll be a while before Vampire A1200 is out and makes web browsing.. a lot better!)
Maybe on my CF card, but I think I deleted it, and I don't have an easy way to check whether it's an FPU version or not!
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You are right, 2 or 3 minits is about a same. But with 040 it matter of useability, if loading time rises from 40 seconds to 60, it is huge leap of patience. 40 seconds is OK, minit start to be long time? With 060 difference ist not that big, just few seconds.
How are you even measuring this? My build of NetSurf is built with soft-float as are all libraries, it's only some of the dependencies that might not be. There's very little floating point maths in NetSurf anyway AFAIK.
Could it be possible to make it support tool types? So that FPU could be enabled/disabled that way.
No, that's not viable.
Though, one question is Chris still interested to develop Netsurf further?
I've done about as much as I can with the OS3 frontend, which is more than I really had interest to do in the first place.
When I update OS4 frontend the OS3 frontend automatically gets the changes (unless it's to do with new OS features), which was the point of deriving the OS3 build from my code and keeping it all together (rather than forking it). Core changes are obviously going to apply to both versions too.
Anything further I'd appreciate somebody else working on.
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Test results are from that old build wich you made for someone who asked.
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Test results are from that old build wich you made for someone who asked.
IIRC that was the one where I built GCC using a "no FPU" switch which wasn't documented anywhere to say it would work on 68k target, and nobody told me whether or not it worked without an FPU, but I got the impression it still needed one. God knows what that was doing. The current build is soft-float still, but without that iffy switch.
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Chris - any chance you'd have an older non-FPU version on hand? I don't need the latest, just wanted to play around a bit.. Greatly appreciated :)..
August 2015: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cdyoung/tmp/netsurf_os3_old.lha
Feb 2015: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cdyoung/tmp/netsurf_os3_feb2015 (executable only)
They may or may not work, and they will almost certainly be horrible.
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Could you you consider to get rid of friend bitmap and AGA version would need some love too. There is a problem with png pictures with invisible background, but just with AGA.
Those fixed only bigger thing to do is find memory leak / fix fragmention?? Am I right?
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Could you you consider to get rid of friend bitmap and AGA version would need some love too. There is a problem with png pictures with invisible background, but just with AGA.
It uses a 1-bit mask. I believe this works, but it's not ideal.
It's a shame guigfx doesn't support alpha blending. render.library does, but it's not feasible to blend everything in raw ARGB bitmaps, and I think reading the render BitMap into a memory area, blending across and re-writing to the screen will be too slow (not to mention a lot of hassle). I might try it at some point.
Those fixed only bigger thing to do is find memory leak / fix fragmention?? Am I right?
Yes.
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I forget, aga has that "red problem", like white and red are swapped.
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I forget, aga has that "red problem", like white and red are swapped.
That's not an AGA problem, it's an 8-bit mode problem.
I thought it might be a colour byte order problem but I tried all plausible byte orders and none of them were better.
If it's working in 32-bit modes then that would suggest the byte order is correct, and there's something wrong with guigfx's pen selection instead.
I'd be surprised if there was that obvious a bug in guigfx/render.library but you never know...
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August 2015: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cdyoung/tmp/netsurf_os3_old.lha
Feb 2015: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cdyoung/tmp/netsurf_os3_feb2015 (executable only)
They may or may not work, and they will almost certainly be horrible.
Horrible is OK :)
Good news and bad news --
It looks like it'll open without requiring a FPU.
However, it wants AmigaOS 3.5 or higher (I have 3.1), as it asks for "Diskfont.library v0 not found" which I think means v40 or higher. I see the 'release' version on Aminet says Amiga OS 3.x.. but maybe not the case for this older version. Thanks so much for sharing though Chris!
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You are confusing two different versions. You have read Arthur's fork's readme. That is based to sdl and framebuffer version of netsurf. It is OK with emulated enviroment, but not with Real amiga.
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However, it wants AmigaOS 3.5 or higher (I have 3.1), as it asks for "Diskfont.library v0 not found" which I think means v40 or higher. I see the 'release' version on Aminet says Amiga OS 3.x.. but maybe not the case for this older version. Thanks so much for sharing though Chris!
All of my builds need 3.5+
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All of my builds need 3.5+
Got it! Comprehension after reading is a good thing :)
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Hi there,
my version works without FPU.
Homepage is here http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
There is no FPU version of 3.5.
It works on all 3.x oses.
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Hi there,
my version works without FPU.
Homepage is here http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
There is no FPU version of 3.5.
It works on all 3.x oses.
Thank you :)
This seems to get a lot further -
"Unable to Init SDL: No available video device
Unable to initialise framebuffer"
I'm running an A1200 with 68020@ 28 mhz, 33MB of fast ram (+2MB chip ram, Indivision DVI AGA), using Miami and a pmcica ethernet for TCP/IP.
I've looked through the docs but not sure if there is something else I should install? The SDL library looks useful for compiling this myself only.
I've tried the desktop at (highgfx - 1024x768x16 color/256 colors, and also PAL interlaced high res 16 and 256 colors).
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You need aga version.
Maximum resolution is 640x512.
No SDL library required.
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You need aga version.
Maximum resolution is 640x512.
No SDL library required.
AGA version requires the FPU though unfortunately :(
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Thank you :)
This seems to get a lot further -
"Unable to Init SDL: No available video device
Unable to initialise framebuffer"
I'm running an A1200 with 68020@ 28 mhz, 33MB of fast ram (+2MB chip ram, Indivision DVI AGA), using Miami and a pmcica ethernet for TCP/IP.
I've looked through the docs but not sure if there is something else I should install? The SDL library looks useful for compiling this myself only.
I've tried the desktop at (highgfx - 1024x768x16 color/256 colors, and also PAL interlaced high res 16 and 256 colors).
Arthurs version would not work with your system anyway. It requires more memory than you have.
You should consider update to OS3.9
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Arthurs version would not work with your system anyway. It requires more memory than you have.
You should consider update to OS3.9
I can go to 63 MB - would that be enough ? (Aca1221).
I just want to see it work and hit basic sites like aminet .
Guess for now I'll wait for the vampire a1200.
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It is enough
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Arthurs version would not work with your system anyway. It requires more memory than you have.
You should consider update to OS3.9
33mb seem to me as rather much, i doubt arturs version requires so much initially, but i woulkd have to recheck. its rather the cpu that hasnt enough power im afraid. i would wait a bit longer, but upgrading to 3.9 on such a config? im not sure..
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I have 32mb fast on my 040 setup
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AGA version requires the FPU though unfortunately :(
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
No FPU AGA version is here.
Amiga.org loaded with 8.5 MB RAM left on ClassicWBv28 (it takes 3MB) with 32MB :)
As wawrzon said it would be reeeealy slow on your config though, but please try and let us know :)
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http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
No FPU AGA version is here.
Amiga.org loaded with 8.5 MB RAM left on ClassicWBv28 (it takes 3MB) with 32MB :)
As wawrzon said it would be reeeealy slow on your config though, but please try and let us know :)
Thanks - this is the version that gives me the video / framebuffer error.
"Unable to Init SDL: No available video device
Unable to initialise framebuffer"
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Thanks - this is the version that gives me the video / framebuffer error.
"Unable to Init SDL: No available video device
Unable to initialise framebuffer"
Maybe it doesn't work because of Indivision AGA?
Can you try without it?
I would try also NewMode program from aminet.
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Maybe it doesn't work because of Indivision AGA?
Can you try without it?
I would try also NewMode program from aminet.
Good Question on the Indivision --
There appears to be no startup software on the Indivision AGA; so I've booted the CF under WinUAE and achieve the same results. to "Verify" Indivision is disabled, I've tried loading the software for it and receive the "hardware not found" error.
For NewMode - I see v3.9 on Aminet, and the archive says it contains the Binary only and requires v3.8 (which I cannot find on Aminet or via Google Search). I've installed v3.9 anyway but receive an error 'configuration file not found' upon boot.
I'll make a backup of this CF card and install BetterWB and/or Amiga OS 3.5 and see if Netsurf magically works :)
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NetSurf 3.6 Dev released
Main focus was on speed up bitmap rendering.
* optimised dithering a bit (thanks matthey)
* optimised little to big endian conversion
* replaced buggy libiconv which disabled css on some sites (eg.68kforever)
* added low dithering quality option
* fixed scale option bug
* fixed favourite modifiy bug
* youtube can be played as mp3 with preffered mp3 player in Prefs
* updated libsdl to 1.2.15 with optimised parts from sdl 2.0.4
* changed - download and play mp3 instead of stream
* reduced binary size by 300kB
Please test and post if loading is faster, thanks!
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
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Users who downloaded before 3.07.2016, please do it again, as wrong file was linked!
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Users who downloaded before 3.07.2016, please do it again, as wrong file was linked!
Not work for me. After double click on icon, attempt load (you can see on memory display), but few seconds later, stop, and not load nothing and the memory are clean again.
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Not work for me. After double click on icon, attempt load (you can see on memory display), but few seconds later, stop, and not load nothing and the memory are clean again.
Have you tested Chris' version? It requiresOS3.5/9 and 32mb ram
If you are coder DNADNL has made contributing to Project easy. Netscript downloads and compiles Netsurf. It requires CygWin dev tools for Windows
It uses render and guigfx libraries. Has some color problems with AGA. With RTG you need to manually edit users/choises file to have friend_bitmap:1 switch.
https://github.com/DNADNL/NetScript
There is also a precompiled version to download.
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With RTG you need to manually edit users/choises file to have friend_bitmap:1 switch.
I don't know why you keep mentioning this, as it forces this option ON for "obvious" RTG screens anyway (and has done so for ages). Unless that's not working?
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[EDIT] I need to correct my self, it doesn't work. I tested first with amigaworld.net, where problem is not that obivous. Amiga.org has color problems if friend_bitmap is not set manually.
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[EDIT] I need to correct my self, it doesn't work. I tested first with amigaworld.net, where problem is not that obivous. Amiga.org has color problems if friend_bitmap is not set manually.
Is your screen depth 16-bit or higher?
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Is your screen depth 16-bit or higher?
I prety sure that it is 16bit. Need to check it for sure tomorrow. There is slight change that it is 15bit.
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Not work for me. After double click on icon, attempt load (you can see on memory display), but few seconds later, stop, and not load nothing and the memory are clean again.
Can you download again. I've updated binary.
If not, does any of this 4 binaries works for you?:
WIP.7z (https://www.dropbox.com/s/urxdu7vc93cqb5i/WIP.7z?dl=1)
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Is your screen depth 16-bit or higher?
Screen depth is 16bit and I need to set friend_bitmap manually.
Noticed that effect without friend_bitmap, is same than color problems with AGA. Is it possible, that problems with AGA are related?
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Screen depth is 16bit and I need to set friend_bitmap manually.
Hmm, I'll double-check in case I've missed an '=', but being at least 16-bit is *only* criteria for it being set automatically.
If you run with -v, what does the "screen depth =" line say?
Noticed that effect without friend_bitmap, is same than color problems with AGA. Is it possible, that problems with AGA are related?
Possibly, but guigfx knows what screen it's mapping for, so I find it unlikely. You can try friend_bitmap on AGA screens of course. It looks like an endian issue, but I've tried a myriad of different byte orders for the images and none of them are right. What I haven't tried is blotching out individual channels to try and work out what order they're supposed to be in. Maybe I'll give that a go when I have some time.
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Can you download again. I've updated binary.
If not, does any of this 4 binaries works for you?:
WIP.7z (https://www.dropbox.com/s/urxdu7vc93cqb5i/WIP.7z?dl=1)
Had that same problem too under winuae. Looked like a ixemul crash (ixemul did show a crash window with JIT off).
But,,,,, all of the above work now.
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Hmm, I'll double-check in case I've missed an '=', but being at least 16-bit is *only* criteria for it being set automatically.
If you run with -v, what does the "screen depth =" line say?
(2.516862) frontends/amiga/plotters.c:107 ami_init_layers: Screen depth = 16
Tested again, it doesn't work automatically, I need to set friend_bitmap:1 manually. If friend_bitmap should be ON automatically with 16bit screens and better, could you set minium for 15bit? It is theoretically possible color depth with real amigas.
I also tested it with AGA and it doesn't do anything noticeabble to "red effect".
Seems that AGA problem is mostly with jpg pictures, like amiga.org banner. Amigaworld.net banner displays about right, it is gif picture.
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(2.516862) frontends/amiga/plotters.c:107 ami_init_layers: Screen depth = 16
Tested again, it doesn't work automatically, I need to set friend_bitmap:1 manually. If friend_bitmap should be ON automatically with 16bit screens and better, could you set minium for 15bit? It is theoretically possible color depth with real amigas.
Yes, no problem.
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NetSurf 3.6 Dev released
http://ami-soft.blogspot.com/
Hi APJ! i just wanted to say I was finally able to get 3.5 working on my Amiga 1200 / with no FPU. The trick was installing BetterWB on top of Amiga OS 3.1, and that apparently added a few things that Netsurf required. I am able to open the netsurf-aga-nofpu and see the browser now.
Config:
A1200, Kickstart 3.1
68020 @ 28 mhz, No FPU
2MB Chip, 1MB Slow, 32MB Fast.
I was able to get rid of all of the errors produced by Snoop but it still didn't open or load until I installed BetterWB.
Thanks for producing this!
Now I have to get DNS resolution working on my MiamiDX miggy.. :)
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Config:
A1200, Kickstart 3.1
68020 @ 28 mhz, No FPU
2MB Chip, 1MB Slow, 32MB Fast.
For the record:
http://www.google.co.uk - 15.1 seconds to render
http://www.amiga.org -- 141 seconds to render
:).
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Updated version 4th Desember 2016
Direct download:
http://netsurf.baderman.net/NetSurf-nofpu.4Dec
ami-soft.blogspot.com (http://ami-soft.blogspot.com)
Update 4.12.2016
* fixed youtube conversion
* updated AGA version
* updated sources
* drop ixemul build
* updated libs: libcurl 7.51; libssl 1.0.1u