Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: ddniUK on July 28, 2014, 02:21:29 PM
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Lyle wants us to remind him that he was wrong :)
Great work Lyle, thanks for all your hard work!!
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1136#
(http://s13.postimg.org/6irzlyayb/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6irzlyayb/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/ree9x775f/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ree9x775f/)
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@ddniUK
nice to know work on hdaudio continues apace. oh, and i love the memes generated from the amiwest 2012 pictures, by the way. :)
-- eliyahu
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The blog is an interesting read and informative like the information on Xena/Xorro. I'm glad to know that the hardware has interesting tidbits in there that has yet to be implemented in software; although I'm still waiting for onboard Ethernet and CF card access -- perhaps with OS4.2 :)
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I'm happy to hear that they were able to discover the secret to making this work!
Having coded for certain ARM Peripheral hardware, as well as a few other things at the register level, documentation is not often perfect. For my ARM projects, I had the convenience at the time to look at the Verilog RTL and synthesized netlist for the chip to (very gradually) figure things out. Data fields are sometimes not even at the register address in the docs, sometimes have moved to different bit numbers on different addresses, and sometimes really just do not do what the datasheet says, in addition to the more common too vague or complete omission items.
I'm sure this was quite a challenge with only a datasheet, maybe some Linux code that works differently, and a lot of experimentation time for these guys. Congratulations on your accomplishment!
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(http://s13.postimg.org/6irzlyayb/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6irzlyayb/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/ree9x775f/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ree9x775f/)
Hey, those are my photos (but not my subtitles).
Writing from Las Vegas,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
July 26-27 Commodore Vegas Expo v10 2014 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
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Why did intel not make it backwards compatible? Just to be annoying (as is often the case)?
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I'm happy that audio competence grows !!!
(as it seems big players try to piss also on our audio parade (after making 3D and video HW support hard for us), perhaps those Amigan FPGA wizards should do our own audio chip (superPaula?) already)
Do we have USB audio working on any Amigalike yet?
Anyone had time to study RadeonHD audio out?
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Why did intel not make it backwards compatible? Just to be annoying (as is often the case)?
It's almost never the case, but it might appear that way.
Backward compatibility costs and asking everyone to pay extra for a sound chip when you just need a new driver is unjustifiable. In the DOS days it made sense as a large number of your customers would be unable to use your hardware, but these days it doesn't.
Often the backward compatibility would never be used, because you'd be losing out on new features and who would chose that?
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I'm happy that audio competence grows !!!
(as it seems big players try to piss also on our ......... x y z, blah blah blah
I see this kind of comment and attitude too often and wonder why, or how anyone can think that any of the so called "Big Players" would want to "piss on our" anything?
The "Big Players" don't know we exist anymore! And even if they did know about us, they would not care to spend a dime toward writing drivers or software for a few hundred users who continue to play around with an obsolete and mostly forgotten OS running on hardware that is a decade or three behind what the rest of the world is using.
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Why did intel not make it backwards compatible? Just to be annoying (as is often the case)?
There are some real advantages to the new standard.. and they would not have been possible with AC97:
The case wiring of the old system was.. "less than ideal".. the line/headphone output was routed from the case to the front headphone jack. At the jack, audio runs though a couple normally closed contacts (open when headphones inserted) and then the audio is run from there to the normal green jack on the back panel. WHat this means is that under the best circumstances, your "line output" has run two trips through the case, and also through a pair of mechanical contacts.. this is a higher failure rate than needed, and if you don't connect the headphone jack, the line output doesn't work at all!
The same circuit on HDAudio: There are separate audio feeds for headphone out and line out.. a single contact on the headphone jack can be used to tell the driver when headphones are plugged in or not.. But it's now possible to have BOTH outputs active at the same time, and it is possible to have separate feeds to either of them, and the line out still works if the case jacks are not connected..
The old way had each card showing up in PCI space, and every card needed specific drivers. the new way has a stream of data through the southbridge that can support up to four separate cards, and they all (supposedly) can use the same driver.. Now I'll be the first to say that our current driver is not compatible with anything but the X1000 right now.. but it's a start.
I'm sure there's other changes as well.. but that's a start
Do we have USB audio working on any Amigalike yet?
I have code to record and play back audio over USB.
There are a few obstacles yet to overcome, and I have other
projects as well, but there is hope for the future.:)
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.... running on hardware that is a decade or three behind what the rest of the world is using.
I respectfully disagree.:)
By necessity, we don't have the very latest, in part because we are such a small group. But on some specific fronts we are not all that far behind.
My current Amiga has SATA and PATA built in, along with working HDAudio.
And while my choices are mostly restricted to a single brand, my choices for a graphics card are respectable.
I don't follow the PC world closely enough to know what the "latest" graphics cards are, but I think we are a bit closer than a few decades behind.
I get to use off-the shelf monitors, keyboards, mice, power supply, and hard drives.
Memory for an X is MUCH easier to find than memory was for earlier models.
I agree that we're not "cutting edge" of the market, but especially considering that we have to write our own drivers, I'm quite impressed with where we are today.
Not bad.. and I don't miss the 23 pin monitor port at all. :)
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running on hardware that is a decade or three behind what the rest of the world is using.
I respectfully disagree. ;)
I'd say we're ahead the rest of the world; I mean show me one other motherboard with an in-built XMOS! :)
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I'd say we're ahead the rest of the world; I mean show me one other motherboard with an in-built XMOS! :)
Most motherboards have low power cpu's on them, they just don't make them available for the end user.
Of course making it available for the end user and being used for something are two different things. Would you notice if the XMOS wasn't on the motherboard?
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@ amigadave
My X1000 has a newer/better video card in it then my 3 year old PC. Yes I know we don't have full 3D to get the cards full benefit YET but we'll get there.
My X1000 has 4GB of ram and my 3 year old PC has 2GB. Yes I know we can't exactly access the full 4GB of ram YET but we'll get there.
I had to buy office 2013 for work and it's the biggest piece of buggy crap ever! Yes even the thousands of developers working on it & still headaches and down time messing up my time! Worst part is they're not paying me to be a beta tester lol
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@ amigadave
My X1000 has a newer/better video card in it then my 3 year old PC. Yes I know we don't have full 3D to get the cards full benefit YET but we'll get there.
My X1000 has 4GB of ram and my 3 year old PC has 2GB. Yes I know we can't exactly access the full 4GB of ram YET but we'll get there.
I had to buy office 2013 for work and it's the biggest piece of buggy crap ever! Yes even the thousands of developers working on it & still headaches and down time messing up my time! Worst part is they're not paying me to be a beta tester lol
Really I have used office 2013 a lot and not had any issues. Same for Office 2010 . 2013 easily best office software I have used by a country mile
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... how anyone can think that any of the so called "Big Players" would want to "piss on our" anything?
The "Big Players" don't know we exist anymore!
My point is that they "piss on our parade" without knowing it.
(I often unintentionally piss on worms and ants etc... because I had not noticed that they exist on the direction of my pee.... (In the end... I might not care either.))
So ... our own sound chip might act as a raincoat/ubrella against the "accidental" golden shower. ;-)
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Really I have used office 2013 a lot and not had any issues. Same for Office 2010 . 2013 easily best office software I have used by a country mile
It crashed quite often, mostly Excel, if we had access to crash report send to Microsoft I'm sure you'll be surprised.
Kamelito
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Really I have used office 2013 a lot and not had any issues. Same for Office 2010 . 2013 easily best office software I have used by a country mile
don't even get me started on that mess! constant crashes in Word on my large reports, messing up my formatting big time causing hours and hours of lost bs time ...serves me right as I went against my motto of never buying a new release until a year or three to let the be bugs get figured out. Instead wasted productive time for BS:rant::rant::rant:
@ Lyle
my friend we all have those 'DH0:' moments ! (compliments of ddniUK's best avatar):)
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I was wrong, and I can admit it to the general public.
I gave out bad information, which I truly regret doing, as it may damage my perceived integrity in the future.
I have admittied it and apologized, and I have even invited people to tell me I was wrong if it helps.
But please, PLEASE don't turn this thread into a review of Microsoft products.
Some things are even more offensive than a public apology.
:)
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I was wrong, and I can admit it to the general public.
I gave out bad information, which I truly regret doing, as it may damage my perceived integrity in the future.
I have admittied it and apologized, and I have even invited people to tell me I was wrong if it helps.
But please, PLEASE don't turn this thread into a review of Microsoft products.
Some things are even more offensive than a public apology.
:)
:roflmao: :roflmao: you crack me up Lyle!
Your audio work has been awesome! If I could be as productive as you are by being wrong, then I would be wrong all of the time! :laughing:
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I respectfully disagree.:)
I didn't write my post to offend any users of AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS, AROS, or AmigaOS3.x on Classic Amiga hardware, FPGA clones, or modern hardware running emulation.
I don't follow the PC world closely enough to know what the "latest" graphics cards are, but I think we are a bit closer than a few decades behind.
Sure we can pick certain parts of any Amiga inspired systems and show how that part is not a decade to 3 decades behind modern computers, but my comment still applies to overall performance of all of our systems. Except for AROS & emulation on the latest hardware, the fastest and best overall hardware choices are the X1000 for AmigaOS4.x and the G5 PowerMac for MorphOS, with new FPGA based recreations of the Motorola 680x0 and Classic Amiga chipset soon to be released for people who prefer to run AmigaOS3.x. I think if I wanted to waste some time, it would not be too hard to come up with overall performance benchmarks that would show that the hardware I just mentioned, which is only able to run on a single core of the dual core systems and without drivers that take full advantage of currently available HD video cards, can only be considered equal to mainstream systems that are at least a decade old, while the Amiga A1000 is about to turn 30 (though I admit it was far ahead of its time). My comment was not meant to offend, or disappoint, just a fact of reality, specially when thinking of how any big company in the IT field would perceive any of our best hardware platforms (as a whole, not piece by piece). I also don't mind that some people choose to have a different perception, or point of view, than mine, when it comes to the hardware and performance we currently enjoy.
I agree that we're not "cutting edge" of the market, but especially considering that we have to write our own drivers, I'm quite impressed with where we are today.
Not bad.. and I don't miss the 23 pin monitor port at all. :)
I am not complaining about where we are today, though I do wish there were some way to speed up development that would close the gap between OUR performance and software availability, compared to users of the three most used operating systems (Windows, MacOSX, & Linux). At least we have a few people working hard to provide good hardware and some of the software we need, which is far more than any other 30 year old platform that technically died 15 years ago, can say for themselves. Sure, things could be better, but they also could be so much worse.
I am all FOR celebrating what we do have, instead of complaining about what we don't have yet. But I also don't sugar coat reality, or try to wear colored glasses when I look at where we currently are, compared to other choices. I am very thankful that we still have any Amiga inspired choices. We don't have the hundreds of thousands of users that we once had in the Amiga community, but the people who remain are creating hardware and software still, and that is a great thing. I can't measure how active our community is at the moment, but it seems to be much better off than it was a few short years ago.:)
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I didn't write my post to offend any users of AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS, AROS, or AmigaOS3.x on Classic Amiga hardware, FPGA clones, or modern hardware running emulation.
I took no offense at all, and hope I didn't offend you either.
... can only be considered equal to mainstream systems that are at least a decade old,
I agree completely. Any comparison of an Amiga to a mainstream system will favor the mainstream by price, performance, availablility, support, and software available. On that we completely agree.
Unless we reach a market share that would support large batch manufacturing, and a user base big enough to attract manufacturers and programmers, this is not likely to change. I don't expect that to happen.
I, personally, am not terribly interested in programming nor using a Windows platform. A course I once took ended with an introduction to the Win32 API, and if I never see it again I'll be quite grateful.
I suppose the difference between our opinions might relate to the relative comparison. As long as we measure our success by comparing it to the Windows community, (or even the Linux community), we will pale by comparison.
But I meant to compare my current Amiga to any of my previous ones.
I have owned quite a few Amiga1000 machines, often with hand made hardware additions. I owned an A4000 Desktop, that had an 040 installed. And I own a micro-AmigaOne.
My first A1000 was bought used, because I could not afford a new one. It was amazing. The 4000D was a great upgrade in speed, and I loved it too.
The micro was a big change. It was tiny, not terribly stable, and the OS was still in early stages. It certainly had it's flaws, but after using it for six months I sold or gave away all my classic Amigas. After going to AmigaOS there just wasn't much fun in the classics for me.
Then the X1000 was delivered. Yes, it's expensive, but after adjusting for inflation it costs less than the original Amiga1000.
When I sit in front of the X1000, I get a better overall experience compared to any of the Amigas I have owned before. It is faster, it is more capable, the OS is very solid, and the hardware is.. well, it's not a micro. ;)
There will always be "something more" to wait for. whether some driver or some feature in the OS, we will NEVER be complete. and that is a GOOD thing. Because once we are done we risk not growing any more. And that would be the worst possible news.
Just as there will always be something more, there will always be people waiting impatiently for it. Those of us that are still here are ALL passionate about our love for Amiga, either in one or many of its flavors. Without that passion the Amiga flame would have gone out long ago. THe down side of having such a passionate following is.. well. You're a moderator, I don't need to tell you what happens. :)
... My comment was not meant to offend, or disappoint.
Nor was mine, in any way. You and I have met, and I have a great respect for your work. which could probably be described as "community service". The more folks like you among us, the better off we will all be.
My wife is calling, and I may have exceeded the post length limit.
Goodnight, my friends
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I was wrong, and I can admit it to the general public...But please, PLEASE don't turn this thread into a review of Microsoft products.
Some things are even more offensive than a public apology.
:)
damn Lyle this time you're totally RIGHT:) Please forgive my lapse of good judgement on this thread celebrating your 'mistake' and as a small token of my appreciation for being WRONG I have just sent you a donation :D:drink:
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@amiga audio & microsoft etc...
Good to know that now we are unlikely to loose our audio gutu(s) to Microsoft again. ;-)
(previously, IIRC, for example Pars&pipes authors etc. went to M$ and created direct audio for them...)
World is sometimes insane... I have not had windows device at home for 10 years or so. But it seems my main work task currently is windows testing on some HW products... not too rewarding I tell you, but no work lasts forever, so going to try to do my best also with this sh*t.
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@amiga audio & microsoft etc...
Good to know that now we are unlikely to lose our audio gutu(s) to Microsoft again. ;-)
(previously, IIRC, for example Pars&pipes authors etc. went to M$ and created direct audio for them...)
Aren't we a lucky bunch :-)