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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Vlabguy1 on July 13, 2014, 01:32:20 AM
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Anyone watch the show? It seems ok, ha but I did notice a C1702 monitor being used, so cool!!
Rich
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I've been watching it.
Kinda neat to spot the old stuff. A little anachronistic at times. Thought I saw a RS Model 100 in there.
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I've been watching off and on. Tech is way background on the show, and the manufactured drama is thin. Kind of like listening to a bunch of computer wannabees throwing around a bunch of big words. But they're actors I can't expect much.
I've actually been watching more to catch all the AMC cars in the back ground. Check my avatar. :) So far there's been Hornets, Gremlins, Spirits, and the two tone blue 1966 AMC wagon seen in the parking lot in the first two episodes belongs to a local friend.
Plaz
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I'm really digging it. We didn't get our first computer until 1984 (C=64) but I still remember a growing fascination with them. I'd already been teaching myself BASIC by this point on paper and would try out little programs on floor models at stores when I got the chance, during '82 and '83.
I love the period aspect of it and a lot of the personalities and drama actually reminds me of what you find in Steven Levy's books, like Hackers. Nothing seems manufactured at all. You get strong, brilliant people together, pressure, money and big ideas and you've got yourself the exact recipe for drama. This isn't the story of drones at desks punching a clock and going home.
For this to actually be successful it's got to be about the human story first and foremost (like good scifi too). I like that it offers multiple characters that don't fit the stereotype that Cameron's roommates and Gordon fall into. If it was only that I'm sure there are some people who would still enjoy it, who identify with those characters, but "normals" would have nothing to stay interested. A show about the tech means you have no show. That's appropriate for a cold and factual documentary, for Discovery or PBS.
They're being as careful as they can to be period specific with the tech. A lot of it is donated or what they can find online. A lot of it apparently doesn't work anymore, which is understandable (they're hand-feeding pre-printed paper quite often through printers). But they're about a year behind on the machine they're designing, as it turns out. The Grid Compass came out in 1982 and was designed in 1979. It was a magnesium bodied clamshell with a flat display. But it cost $10K, ran a proprietary OS and most were sold to the US government for NASA and Special Forces applications.
@Plaz, when I was little, my dad drove a red, Craig Breedlove special edition AMX.
edit: the last episode of the season is titled 1984. I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to see a certain Super Bowl ad that's going to change everything.
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The AMX/Javelin is one of my favorite old cars. The Gremlin is probably the first 2 door hatchback wagons ever, too bad it looked like a tennis shoe.
Chris
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Hopefully we don't get any Matadors in there, lol. There was one in my neighborhood when I was in high school that sat in the same spot for years. Hideous car, lol.
I wouldn't mind seeing a Rebel though. Seriously strong looking cars.
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Eagles were slightly ahead of their time also. AWD when Subaru had only option on some models.
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The guy that sold Gordon an empty box, that was a red Eagle, wasn't it?! My mom had a brown one for a while. I always liked the way they looked but that thing was, mechanically, a pile, what I remember.
edit: Just like IMDB for actors and directors and people working on and appearing in movies and television, there's a website dedicated to cars appearing in movies and television called the IMCDB, or Internet Movie Car DataBase:
http://www.imcdb.org/movie.php?id=2543312 (http://www.imcdb.org/movie.php?id=2543312)
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Have a Subaru WRX now, most fun since Disneyland.
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We didn't get our first computer until 1984 (C=64)
This week's episode had a C64.
when I was little, my dad drove a red, Craig Breedlove special edition AMX.
Ha, very cool. Those guys are starting to be worth some bucks. I bought an old used Javelin right out of high school. All these years later I'm restoring another one. Lots of work to go. Funny I have to come to a computer board to find some AMC familiarity. Other car guys don't know as much. lol
The guy that sold Gordon an empty box, that was a red Eagle
I'd have to go back and look closer but it was either an Eagle or Concord (which looked very similar to the Eagle).
I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to see a certain Super Bowl ad that's going to change everything.
Good call. I remember the apple ad and going.... what? Then watched everyone I knew continue to buy clones and Commodores. Actually in this weeks episode I felt like I was watching them try to invent the ipod decades early before they could even ship their first clone. Didn't feel believable at all. And what?.... not a phone modem in the entire building... come on.... :)
The show was quirky and interesting (technical, no) for the first few episodes, but they've about lost me.
Plaz
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I've been watching off and on. Tech is way background on the show, and the manufactured drama is thin. Kind of like listening to a bunch of computer wannabees throwing around a bunch of big words. But they're actors I can't expect much.
I've actually been watching more to catch all the AMC cars in the back ground. Check my avatar. :) So far there's been Hornets, Gremlins, Spirits, and the two tone blue 1966 AMC wagon seen in the parking lot in the first two episodes belongs to a local friend.
Plaz
Plaz,
Ha same here looking out for the cool cars.. like the Porsche944.. and the lime green Datsun280zx they smashed up :(. I had two of those cars not that color though.
Rich
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lol, old Datsun, I still have a 70 Datsun 1600 P/U, runs great but sitting as I have no place to keep it right now.
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They're using an '87 944 in place of having an '82 or '83. I had an '88 944S for a while. Loved driving it. I made the mistake of getting the "S" model though as the engines were bunk from a maintenance standpoint with several fatal design flaws. I bought it for a tick under $5K and ended up putting over $9K into the engine, trying to keep it running, because parts and labor were just outrageous, and there was only one or two guys in all of Los Angeles qualified anymore to work on water-cooled Porsche.
I don't get your comment regarding the iPod, Plaz. The episode was about Cameron wanting to give the machine a "soul". All I could think when she's coding in the conversational interface was she's putting an ELIZA wrapper on DOS (if it extends beyond the ZORK-like simple commands).
Where do you get iPod?
Anyway, yeah, the cooler AMC stuff doesn't really command much yet. I've seen a couple come across the block on the Mecum auctions on Velocity and they don't bring near the money as even hideous flavors of Chevelle or, worse, I'm seeing a trend of post '72 cars come through with absolute trash for engines and performance and they're getting some really money. I'm not a fan of the Javelin but the AMX and the Rebel are sweet and they go for a song compared to someone looking to get into a Mustang or Camaro, while being more rare than either.
That wagon though, your friend's, is it the one with the Crager style mag wheels?
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They're using an '87 944 in place of having an '82 or '83. I had an '88 944S for a while. Loved driving it. I made the mistake of getting the "S" model though as the engines were bunk from a maintenance standpoint with several fatal design flaws. I bought it for a tick under $5K and ended up putting over $9K into the engine, trying to keep it running, because parts and labor were just outrageous, and there was only one or two guys in all of Los Angeles qualified anymore to work on water-cooled Porsche.
I don't get your comment regarding the iPod, Plaz. The episode was about Cameron wanting to give the machine a "soul". All I could think when she's coding in the conversational interface was she's putting an ELIZA wrapper on DOS (if it extends beyond the ZORK-like simple commands).
Where do you get iPod?
Anyway, yeah, the cooler AMC stuff doesn't really command much yet. I've seen a couple come across the block on the Mecum auctions on Velocity and they don't bring near the money as even hideous flavors of Chevelle or, worse, I'm seeing a trend of post '72 cars come through with absolute trash for engines and performance and they're getting some really money. I'm not a fan of the Javelin but the AMX and the Rebel are sweet and they go for a song compared to someone looking to get into a Mustang or Camaro, while being more rare than either.
That wagon though, your friend's, is it the one with the Crager style mag wheels?
Ah good eye.. I did not notice the dash shot..gotta go back and see.. Should have gone for the S2 model, best of the breed. Almost bought an S2 long time back :-). Still might.
Rich
Could be a 1985.5..tis when they changed the dash.
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I don't get your comment regarding the iPod
Ipod kind of a generic reference. Their marketing was one of the first I can recall tying in to personalizing your hardware. What I'm stuck on is the technical bit where they have yet to ship a functional clone, it's on the verge of completions, but wait... "it needs a soul". In the PC biz since 1984, I can't recall anyone caring if their machine had a soul, or if it was even the least bit personalized. (well maybe some stickers on the monitor). It was all about more apps, more memory, faster clocks and better colors/resolutions.
Besides, early 80's a computer with a soul was baaad. WarGames anyone? "Do you want to play a game". "Open the pod bay doors HAL". :)
Plaz
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Mmmm, no, the whole "soul" thing and the personalized approach is essentially the mythos of the Mac, and to a lesser extent the the Apple II before it. But they're essentially designing the Mac (while making the Grid Compass), not an iPod. More apps, faster, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with what created the "Apple II Forever" cult that existed well into the 1990s. Nothing with a "soul" was reflected in the marketplace at the time but it was not a foreign idea or resigned to movie monsters. Even the concept of a "soul" and what makes a machine different or special is rather plastic and has been assigned to all sorts of machines whether or not they made any attempt to say your name, ahem, Amiga.
Read any books by or about Marvin Minsky from the period. Read any hyperbolic tech journalistic fantasy about where things were going, particularly in the household and all that they're trying to achieve are in there. It's where people have wanted to go from the beginning and the computer book section was filled with both fiction and non-fiction works on getting there. Even in the early '80s, because I was reading some of them. I wouldn't be surprised if the authors of the show read The Soul of a New Machine, from 1981. I didn't read it until 1984 but so much of the struggles designing this thing, pulled in all directions by economics, physics, time, fear and big dreams is in there, as well as Steven Levy's book.
I even recall a commercial that goes back to what must be 1980, because I'm associating it with the evening that the Rankin Bass animated The Return of the King played on TV (though it could have even been earlier than this and a televised broadcast of The Hobbit from 1977, either of these puts it 1980 at the latest). I don't recall what company it was for. In hindsight I want to say Xerox because it wasn't about a particular product it was a commercial about "the future" and in it a fellow comes to work and is greeted by his computer, who addresses him by name on the screen.
The computer, though my memory is fuzzy, had a layout similar to the Lisa and I believe it was in a horizontal case with the monitor placed to the left of the case. Compaq would have a portable sorta like this later and I've seen it in other computers as well (I think of this commercial every time I see this layout). Anyway, during the course of this guy settling in to work for the day there is some kind of reveal that the day is special, like it's the fellow's birthday, and the computer congratulates the fellow with a picture of a rose. I'm pretty sure it was a rose. The image kind of paints on as a series of horizontal lines.
This commercial and its vision of a personalized "relationship" with its user has stuck with me all these years. I was nine years old and the only other thought, even, of a computer was limited to what they represented in Star Wars, something for R2D2 to plug into, and maybe one episode of either The Rockford Files or CHiPS or something. But that idea of the personalized experience was seared into my head at that moment and over the years I've thought about it each and every time I've seen a film by The Ladd Company, because their logo of the tree paints itself onto the screen in horizontal lines the same way that 1980 corporate fantasy of the future way we'll be dealing with computers did.
So, sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment of the period. It's a fact, none of this has ever been a part of any IBM PC Clone, but this is a fictional narrative about big ideas during a time there were a lot of big ideas even if we didn't know how to build it yet. The show isn't about a specific company or machine and it's easy enough to see Cardiff and its characters are pulling liberally from all sorts of companies and personalities.
It's about the era where "anything was possible" and personal computing was such a blank slate but so much of it was ironically shackled by its dependence on being PC compatible and anything that wasn't this was an "also ran". But these were the ideas that inspired new generations of people to be interested in computers. Not what they were as a collection of facts or even what software they could run. That's not inspiring. Not at all. That that's what dictated the success and failure in the cold, bland marketplace is only a fact. The truth is inspiration came from someplace else and is more about what characters like Cameron and Joe are obsessing over even though engineers like Gordon are already dead or just locked in some Asperger's love affair with the machine itself for what it is and not what it does or might someday do.
It's what inspired a little kid to actually think about what a computer was and what it might be, enough to learn some BASIC a year or two before his family ever even owned a computer.
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test
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We're just coming at it from two different angles. All your references of the time are from sci-fi, marketing and fiction exploring "what computers could be" in the furture. Nothing wrong about that. We both read, watched and marveled over the same material back in the day. It brings us to where we are here today.
On the other hand I'm mulling what a business would be doing in a situation when they're going up against big blue, risking their entire company and fortune in an attempt to market the first ever clone. "Oh wait stop development, we need to make it more.... cuddly." Well it makes better drama tv, but I guess I was hoping more of a docu-drama.
The show isn't about a specific company or machine
And actually it's inspired by the real story of Columbia Data Products.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Data_Products
Plaz
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Um, no. All of the books and authors I reference are non-fiction, about real people at MIT, Carnegie Mellon, DEC, Sierra Systems, Apple, etc. While fictional computers and their depictions were interesting it was real stories about real people that were actually more interesting, and more like what this show represents. It's fiction that gives these people the target they're shooting for.
The nay-saying engineers are absolutely reflective of why TI never put a dent in the world and why Motorola has ended up where it is. The drama and clash of personalities and bizarre behavior is also completely consistent with my own experiences working with exceptional folks in creative technical start-ups and what you get when you put multiple creative, technical geniuses under one roof, add pressure and stir with management that doesn't really understand what they're managing or how to deal with the people they need to keep on track.
This last episode, the industrial design drawings look like the Grid Compass. I believe Compaq later had a portable that was of similar "clamshell" design with the screen hinged somewhere towards the middle as well. But they mention it's got a metal case so that still makes it more Compass, which had a magnesium case.
(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/grid1101-right.jpg)
This episode had what seemed to be a glaring error to me on the part of the writer, as well as a missed opportunity for Gordon to point out an even better false analogy. He incorrectly calls "contrails" the exhaust from a jet and "dust" but it's actually condensation, hence the "con", and water vapor. The idea that Joe was inadvertently calling the machine "vapor" has worse connotation than anything in the computer business. My guess is the writer was too fixated on expressing fear of being left behind "in the dust" to catch this. And most screenwriters are not going to be fluently versed in what they're writing about so their technical adviser should have caught this.
They also should have caught Cameron's reading of "D-E-C". The actress didn't know that she should have just said it like she was saying "deck". The technical adviser should have caught this too. Still, minor quibbles. The show continues to get better as the characters develop.
Gordon has lost it though.
Colombia Data Products may have served as the inspiration for the company and its "clean room" BIOS but they never made anything close to the computer that Cardiff is making in 1982 (or ever), aren't from Silicon Prairie and when they followed up their generic clone with a "luggable" it was no more portable than anything else at more than 30lbs. There are elements borrowed from Apple. There are elements borrowed from Compaq. There are elements borrowed from DEC. It's an amalgamation.
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Yes you're correct Minskey certainly a valid reference, but the only book mentioned by name was Soul of the machine. Your other named references were TV and movies, so I was keyed on that.
The drama and clash of personalities and bizarre behavior is also completely consistent with my own experiences
Yeah been there done that too. You've described it well. Mine was with the radar, satellite field. While not directly computer related, modifying the "latest" CP/M "desktops" (more like large metal cubes) was part of the development. I still tell stories about the place and it's characters 25+ years later.
This last episode, the industrial design drawings look like the Grid Compass. I believe Compaq later had a portable that was of similar "clamshell"
Yeah, with that digital display I agree. Though when they started talking luggable, the first thing that came to mind was the osborne and compaq's. (osborne early CP/M, not clone for the younger folk ;) )
It's an amalgamation.
Absolutely. Though Columbia stands out to me first with the bios to get around IBM's copyrights. They even make the point by bringing in specifically IBM's legal team as Columbia had to deal with. If making an amalgam with Cardiff, then I could go along with some other fictional big bad computer guy.... CBI.. or whatever.
After that part though it does turn in to a big mish-mash of companies and tech mixed with the quirky characters. And actually as I type this I'm reminded how much it feels like the cast of Battlestar Glactica :)
Plaz
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Yes you're correct Minskey certainly a valid reference, but the only book mentioned by name was Soul of the machine. Your other named references were TV and movies, so I was keyed on that...
I also mentioned Steven Levy's book. Most of the fictional references were an entirely different context, but, you know, whatever. This is boring now, so I'm sorry your memories of the '80s and...whatever must have somehow inspired you was also so boring as well.
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eh, never mind. Enjoy your show.
Plaz
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Season 3 has started, and I'm about 1/2 way through episode 2. Lots and lots of C64s on the show, and even an Amiga mention by Boz in episode 1 (in the bar scene, before he tries to call his son).
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Season 3 has started, and I'm about 1/2 way through episode 2. Lots and lots of C64s on the show, and even an Amiga mention by Boz in episode 1 (in the bar scene, before he tries to call his son).
i was about to mention that, boz said he wanted to hear more about that Amiga when he got back (from the phone call).
been watching since episode one, i love the show. i also enjoy finding all the mistakes like cables not plugged in machines, parts and computers that dont work together. like season one episode one where gordon and joe finally decide to reverse engineer the ibm pc, gordon desolders the bios on the pc motherboard but then show him removing the chips from installed 28 pin sockets, so he didnt really need to desolder anything.
still, love the show. certain aspects take me back to my times in the 80s.
//kneehighspy
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Anyone watch the show? It seems ok, ha but I did notice a C1702 monitor being used, so cool!!
Rich
lots of c64's and 1702's for sure. The theme seems to be loosly following Quantum link,the online service for c64's back then. I saw a quick glimpse of the quantum link main entry screen a few times... and the avatar people etc were part of it also.
for those who never used q-link in the day:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Link
and if u want to experience q-link today like we did then:
http://orrtech.us/qlink/
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well episode three of season three just had the Amiga 1000 make two appearances! season three is really getting good, much better than how season two started.
//kneehighspy
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Like the show or not, it's bringing real legitimacy to C='s history in the computer world and doing it on air. C= fans should be watching, if for no other reason but to support the people behind this show.
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Love the show. Saw the Amiga 1000 last night and smiled. This season is firing on all cylinders.
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Well, the show's title makes a direct reference to a state that Motorola built into the MC68000 in case the processor was in an unrecoverable state (yet another mainframe concept).
Obviously the 68K doesn't catch fire, but it doesn't do anything else either until it a reboot.
I am not too impressed with the producer's needed to hire a pretty blonde women for the lead when most computer developers from that period were scruffy looking eccentric males.
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Joe mentioned the Amiga on last night's show. Great stuff!
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Joe mentioned the Amiga on last night's show. Great stuff!
yeah ryan is using an amiga 1000 at joes apartment for coding and what not while they investigate the arpanet.
last nights episode was edgy and moody, season three is definitely becoming awesome. cant believe we are halfway done with season three already.
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I didn't watch the season finale yet, but watched the 1st of 2 episodes that aired Tuesday night. Lots of prominent use of the Amiga logo at Comdex 1990. No Commodore logo that I could see.
I think we may have seen the last of the Commodore and Amiga computers on the show since we seem to have skipped ahead a few years, but it would be nice to see an Amiga 3000 in there!
I heard they renewed for a 4th and final season.
Love the show, can't believe it doesn't get more attention here for featuring Commodores and Amigas so prominently.
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Last few episodes, specifically where they are at Comdex, you can see an Amiga sign on the wall in a few scenes.
one that comes to mind is just before they go over to talk to the two printer guys.
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I love this show and am glad it's getting a forth and final season. At Comdex when Joe was asking Cameron if there is anything worth checking out, I was yelling 'Look behind you' as there was a large Amiga sign.
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i have loved the show since season one episode one. sad that we get one more season but feel its for the better, love seeing commodore in the series, especially our beloved amiga. maybe we will get a send off seeing the amiga 3000 in the final season, was pleasantly surprised seeing the next in the final season three episodes.
about the only major thing in the nineties was the networking and the final arrival of the internet. the rest of the years only had processor and graphic card improvements and i dont see that making great television, so i am perfectly fine ending with season four.
i have gotten a few years entertainment from a show that follows my (and i am sure alot of you) time in the computer industry. but i will miss the show after next year. another show i loved was manhattan, but seems after two seasons, we have seen the last of it without any word from the makers.
//kneehighspy