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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: slaapliedje on May 21, 2014, 09:08:08 PM
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So I'm pretty much about ready to stab something.
I ordered the FastATA 4000 MK-VI with the new 8.0 boot rom, figuring it was the last thing I needed in my Amiga to make it really fast.
I've had nothing but issues with it so far, finally got a working copy of workbench on it (pretty much bare minimum OS3.9 with up to BB3 installed, the 68060 libraries, mediator, and network. Don't have the Poseidon bits installed yet.)
But I can't get it working with the PIO modes. Basically, it's connected to the controller board, but the driver isn't loaded, when I run FastATA.driver, the drive locks up shortly after about long enough for me to try to change the PIO mode). The windows can be moved, but nothing works, and the drive light is stuck on.
Amigakit support staff said that the only time they've seen that, it was because of the PSU. So I thought, in my naivety, that i could power the compact flash with my PC, and then power on the Amiga (shouldn't hurt, right?)
Well, in the middle of me typing out 'fastata.driver' in the no startup-sequence shell, and then I started typing... 'prefs/fastataprefs' but it came out 'prefs/astata... then I stopped and thought, hey, where's my F? no where to be found it seems. I've tried unplugging the system and waiting a bit (like 2 minutes), tried popping out the battery (I don't think that does anything but saves the clock, right?), and reseating the keyboard cable. none of which works.
Just seems to be the F key too. maybe it'll magically work by the time I get home from work, but I figured I'd ask the experts. Any ideas? I believe I read somewhere that the A4000's keyboard has it's own controller in it. If this is the case, is there a way to reset it somehow?
Any help is much appreciated, and hey if anyone could help with the initial issue of getting the Compact Flash card working with the FastATA at a nice PIO Mode, I'd be forever greatful!
slaapliedje
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Odd timing. I got one from Amigakit last week and also thought it was problematic, but my slot was dirty and after a scrub it worked perfectly, even switching from PIO 4 to 5 on a 300 GB drive (CF worked fine). Perhaps what Amigakit meant was not that there was too little power, but a power supply that has gone, or is going out of spec. I had an A4000D that acted up in a weird fashion that was unpredictable and hooked it up under load to find that the 12 and 5 volt lines began to vary wildly after it warmed up. A $25 USD refurb on it fixed everything. Some stuff (probably with hefty capacitors) can tolerate fluctuations, and other stuff can't.
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OH, that fantastic PIO 5 speed works out to less than 7 MB/s in my testing, which is still better than 2.4.
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Get one of these:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=615
...and then go buy a decent modern brand spanking ATX PSU :-)
Did this with my A1200 and never looked back.
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OH, that fantastic PIO 5 speed works out to less than 7 MB/s in my testing, which is still better than 2.4.
Get just under 10 MB/s with a 060@80MHz / FastATA. Think it was 9.9 MB/s or something could never break the 10 MB/s barrier. :-/
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The one time I managed to get drivespeed to work, it clocked at just under 7mb/s and I think that was PIO 4. But what was said about it getting hot and varying weird, that could very well be it. It's been off for 8 hours now, and even unplugged, guess it's time to test it.
slaapliedje
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Anyone have any idea about the F key? I mean how random is that? Is there any kind of rom/ram thing that can be cleared in the keyboard's controller?
slaapliedje
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Get one of these:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=615
...and then go buy a decent modern brand spanking ATX PSU :-)
Did this with my A1200 and never looked back.
Why would you use an A4000 power connector on an A1200?
I just buy a new Hercules 500W silent mATX PSU off ichyBay for $25 with shipping and fit it directly into the A4000D's housing; by splicing the wires one of these looks like an original, is dual voltage, is almost silent, and now that I've done a few, takes less than 30 minutes.
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Why would you use an A4000 power connector on an A1200?
I just buy a new Hercules 500W silent mATX PSU off ichyBay for $25 with shipping and fit it directly into the A4000D's housing; by splicing the wires one of these looks like an original, is dual voltage, is almost silent, and now that I've done a few, takes less than 30 minutes.
Now that's a fantastic idea, one of the goals that I've always had was to make my Amiga quiet. Loudest components right now would be hard drive (with the CF card, that'll go away), the CD-Rom (which I was considering getting a slim line or something) and the PSU, which I attempted to replace the fan already, but it still spins at max speed and is rather loud.
I'm kind of freaked about the keyboard though.
slaapliedje
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OH, that fantastic PIO 5 speed works out to less than 7 MB/s in my testing, which is still better than 2.4.
Yep you can never get quite the speed that's advertised (15 MB/s).
I brought one for my 1200 and got about 9 MB/s using a SSHD (module) with my 80Mhz 1260.
I couldn't get the thing to fit with my Indy Mrk2 so I didn't bother using it in the end (it's still sitting in the box on the shelf!).
For reference the IdeFix Express is meant to go up to 5.1 MB/s but the best I could ever squeeze out of mine is 4.6 using an ACA1230 @ 56 Mhz, my Apollo 1260 managed about 4.3 MB/s but my Blizzard is down to 3.9 MB/s.
Oh well, still better than the crappy 1.9 MB/s standard IDE speed ;)
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Now that's a fantastic idea, one of the goals that I've always had was to make my Amiga quiet...
I'm kind of freaked about the keyboard though.
slaapliedje
Could you go into more detail on the issues with your keyboard? If it is just one key, then it needs cleaning; not a difficult task but requires patience due to the number of screws. Commodore only used real keyboards (Cherry) for the A2000 and only a few were made. The rest used carbonized rubber contacts that get dirty and needs cleaning: gently rubbing the bottom contacts with a rubber pencil eraser, then wiping off the residue with a bit of isoPrOH -- alcohol.
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Ha ha, so you responded before I could point out that I figured 'wtf, I'll see what I can do." and popped off the key... it felt.. off. like not as springy as the others. I swear earlier I had tried applying more pressure to it, but this time it worked... at least part of the time. wasn't as responsive as the other keys still. So I popped it off a second time, after looking at what would take to take the whole thing apart...
Noticed a tiny piece of something wedged between the white plastic part that goes up and down, and the black part surrounding it... knocked it out and blew it away and what do you know! Key works...
Now to fix the rest of the crap, and see if I can't get this thing going.
slaapliedje
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Yep you can never get quite the speed that's advertised (15 MB/s).
I brought one for my 1200 and got about 9 MB/s using a SSHD (module) with my 80Mhz 1260.
I couldn't get the thing to fit with my Indy Mrk2 so I didn't bother using it in the end (it's still sitting in the box on the shelf!).
For reference the IdeFix Express is meant to go up to 5.1 MB/s but the best I could ever squeeze out of mine is 4.6 using an ACA1230 @ 56 Mhz, my Apollo 1260 managed about 4.3 MB/s but my Blizzard is down to 3.9 MB/s.
Oh well, still better than the crappy 1.9 MB/s standard IDE speed ;)
Ha, pretty much what I expected. I think part of my issue are the cables, they seem... spotty a bit. Didn't have any luck at all until I tried the cable that was attached to the old girl.
slaapliedje
P.S. As a side note... I know it's SUPPOSED to be silent... but I swear I can still hear a clicking noise when the CF is loading...
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Are you using a 133 cable (my board came with an ASUS, like I didn't already have several) that has the 80 lines? The wires on this type of cable are thinner, but twice as many to protect the signal.
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Yup, same here. Asus cable, and yeah, though the other 80 pin one that I have seemed more stable. I also have several Asus ones laying around somewhere. They have awesome motherboards.
slaapliedje
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So, in looking at power supplies, I was attempting to find a 'fanless' MicroATX power supply that was modular.
Closest I've found so far is this (not fanless, but really quiet!)
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=342&area=en
What are everyone's thoughts?
slaapliedje
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I hate to say it, but yeah the cable that came with the card looked used (which is more than I can say about the ones in my storage box); then again the speed I am seeing wasn't that great (same as a good SCSI-2 interface). I was hoping to see it function under OS4.1 as a way to get some better speed out of my backup devices (CF cards).
That looks like a great PSU, but in the wattage range needed it would be hard to find one without a fan. There are some damn quiet fans out there though. I did have a Silverstone PSU once that failed just out of warranty, but it looked great even then. Oh and look! They sell them at Walmart for $94.
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Yeah, mine looked used and abused.
All the fanless ones I found had higher wattage, but they were full ATX size, and so probably wouldn't fit within the A4000 case.
Like this one; http://www.silentpcreview.com/Seasonic_Platinum_Fanless_520W_PSU
slaapliedje
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You know what I like about that PSU is that if it dies, you can use the housing to strain pasta!
If you pop back to the original specs of the 4000's 200W PSU, you will find one that is fanless and will fit. Me, I live with a cat that snores, loudly, so silence doesn't happen often here.
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Ha ha, I just have kids that like to occasionally run around above my head!
Hmmm, pasta. I think it's lunch time!
I read the label on the top of my A4000's PSU, and it said it was 145W. I do think it'd be sweet to find a fanless 300w or so that'd fit.
slaapliedje
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I thought the A3000 was in that range, but on looking 150W is standard; the A4000T could handle a Toaster, CSPPC with several UWSCSI drives, multiple Zorro cards with merely a yawn on 240W. Since they used a straight AT PSU, I bumped up to a 400W for sh-ts & giggles, well $49 too.
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Hello, i've the same exact problem, but i doubt is the power supply, because the problem persist even if i detach all hardware and leave only the fastata mkvi controller and the hdd, with a mere 3630 cpu card..
However changing psu has fixed your problem?
Juri
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As I talked about earlier, I have had PSU's go out of range for their specifications. When I did a quick check under load (attached to the motherboard), the voltages seemed correct, but a check later showed large variances in the voltages. This implies that the regulation is screwed and that the components with large enough capacitors are less affected than those with small ones. Having an A4000D repaired is just as expensive as replacing it with a new mATX supply that easily fits within the old A4000D's PSU box.
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Hello, i've the same exact problem, but i doubt is the power supply, because the problem persist even if i detach all hardware and leave only the fastata mkvi controller and the hdd, with a mere 3630 cpu card..
However changing psu has fixed your problem?
Juri
My new PSU should be arriving Tuesday. I think I'm going to go ahead and order the cable from Amigakit, so that I don't really have to hack anything together. I am looking forward to having a quiet and modular PSU in my Amiga though! Now if only I could hunt down a silent CD/DVD Rom/Writer drive. I did find one called the Asus Quiet Track, but it doesn't look like it's available anywhere, and the only one I've seen is black.
I will definitely post here if I have any success.
Closest I've had to success so far was the ability to format the CF card with PIO Mode 3. At 4 it freezes the system, at 3 I can format it, still type stuff, reboot. But as soon as I try to write anything to it, the Amiga freezes again.
Funny thing is when it freezes, the drive light is on solid, and I can move the windows around, but clicking on anything or typing doesn't work. If I move a window, the icons behind it don't redraw as well.
I also tested the "there's nothing in there but the accelerator, Mediator board and FastATA" but still no go.
With the damaged SATA-IDE adapter, and the used Asus IDE cable... this has shaken my level of trust in Elbox's products. I'll blame them instead of Amigakit, since I'm pretty sure they don't just throw random parts into a box and send it.
slaapliedje
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The incredible thing is that my sata-ide adapter has never work too, and i had to rplace the 80pin ide cable included in fast ata card... elbox never replied my emails! For sure this is the first&last item i bought from elbox!
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Weird. I think (could be wrong) that I fixed my IDE-SATA by soldering the capacitor back on. I'm not sure though, since the drive I was testing it with was up on my shelf for who knows what reason. It did briefly pop up in the disk manager of Windows 7, but when I tried to format it, it seemed to mess up. But like I said, that could be the drive or the adapter.
slaapliedje
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CF cards can act funny depending on their original design. There is a long discussion on the way the CF cards firmware identify themselves to the bus and OS, so the same Brand card may act differently within its subset (intended for a camera, video device, etc). The point of Jens' TrueIDE device was to identify the cf card as a hard drive, rather than its designed purpose. The IDE-SATA adapter is just a run of the market $2 buck device that appears just like the regular Chinese junk out there. Amazon and NewEgg have better devices for this purpose. Hard drives transferring data at 10 MB/s don't need an 80-pin cable, new or used.
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Yes i noticed that the ide-sata converter is a piece of chinese s**t, however it work perfectly on windows machine. Just for curiosity i tried another ide-sata converter i have with fastata, result: amiga 4000 doesn't even boot!
I discovered that the master channel 0 doesn't work anymore (de facto it has never worked)
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Yes i noticed that the ide-sata converter is a piece of chinese s**t, however it work perfectly on windows machine. Just for curiosity i tried another ide-sata converter i have with fastata, result: amiga 4000 doesn't even boot!
I discovered that the master channel 0 doesn't work anymore (de facto it has never worked)
Hello
I can Say also that i have the a4000 fastata with version 7 rom on it and the sata>ide adaptor has never worked by me neither,So ive never used it.
I,ve only got a A3640 fitted am using flash ide modules and am getting about 5/MBs,so i can,t complain.
What jumper settings do you Guys use on the mediator when using it in conjuction with fastata using the radeon as fastram.
And what is the diffrence between V.7 rom and V.8 rom.
Thanks
Laurence
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Hello i do not have a mediator pci, i'm using it on a standard a4000 daughterboard. As far as i know (reading on elbox site) v8.0 have better support for cf drives.
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@slaapliedje:
Hello! Any news?
Juri
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Well, finally recieved my ATX converter for my A4000, put the PSU in, connected it all up... and nothing.
When I push the power button the fan comes on, I see the IDE to CF Card thing light up for a second, as long as the CD-ROM light (so it gets at least a second of power) and then nothing. I put the Amiga power supply back in and it boots up just as it did before...
Any suggestions? I have read a few things about the PSUs being hit and miss, and something about newer PSUs concentrate on having good 3.3v power lines vs the 5v the Amiga uses.
Either way, my Amiga is still working (as much as it did before) with the original PSU.
Any suggestions?
slaapliedje
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Do you use an adaptor to connect the psu to a4000 mainboard or have you simply connected +5,+12, -12, GND and FAIL lines?
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I am using the adapter that amigakit sells.
slaapliedje
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...When I push the power button the fan comes on, I see the IDE to CF Card thing light up for a second, as long as the CD-ROM light (so it gets at least a second of power) and then nothing.
what exactly mean "and then nothing"? the psu turn off? or it simply stays on with amiga black screen?
some new psu have a 24 pin connector instead 20 pin atx connector, afaik the amigakit adaptor has 20 pin connector, have you connected it correctly? (24 <-> 20 pin)
Juri
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This PSU has a 20+4 pin (so the extra 4 pins are off to the side).
It seems like the Amiga never even starts up. The lights flash for the devices, like I said, but then the only thing that remains doing anything is the PSU's fan.
Now I'm starting to wonder if it fried the CF card adapter. It's really hot when I turn it on with the A4000's PSU, and it's not detected at all in the Boot Options screen.
When I get home from work I'm going to test the CF adapter on my PC to see if still works or not. I don't recall it getting that hot before....
slaapliedje
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at this point i suggest you to unplug the power connector from a4000 mb and check voltages on pins, original psu and atx psu (with adaptor)
maybe it have some sort of protection if there is no energy drain from the 3.3v it shut down, i guess.
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Just the individual pins? I do have a volt meter laying around somewhere. Ha ha, the Amiga, be an electronics expert to fix your own stuff, you'll save tons of money.
slaapliedje
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A multimeter WITH a continuity mode will set you back $12, but you need to test the PSU under load (connected to the motherboard). The new PSU sounds bad, as even the cheap ones connected with the Amigakit adapter should work fine. As I've said before, a spot check of a PSU does not reflect variances (wild fluctuations) over time. The CF adapter should not get hot unless something shorted.
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What high quality PSU would you recommend to use with the adapter from Amigakit? I will receive my A4000T soon and would like to use the highest quality suitable ATX psu.
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I have a system with a Mini-ITX board in it that I'll try connecting the PSU to, for testing whether or not it's bad. It's a Silverstone, which I don't have any previous experience with, but it definitely should be one of the higher quality ones, I know Silverstone is mostly known for their cases though.
I'm going to guess it probably is something to do with not detecting anything on the 3.3v line, but I'll figure that out once I get home from work and can test it.
slaapliedje
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I have the same setup for testing motherboards: a mATX (Hercules 500W ~ $25 eBay) plus the Amigakit A4000D adapter with push switch, and it works fine. I do remember that my PSU that died early was a Silverstone (subcontract?). Ya might want to check the PSU in a PC setup, or short the green wire with a ground wire and then check the voltages. They won't be accurate without a load, but they ought to be present.
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Okay, so I checked the voltages;
A4000
O U O 1 2 3
U O U 4 5 6
Is the basic layout. I put the numbers there as reference.
Two and three are ground, black on the adapter, blue on the A4000 PSU.
Pin 1 is 5v, pin 4 is 12v, and pin 5 is -12v. Pin 6 is at 4.33v, but according to this page; http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_Power_supplies/amiga_power_supplies.html#OrigPSURate it only shows a +12v, -12v and +5v...
The actual ratings I got with my A4000 PSU was 5.01v, 11.45v and -11.98v. pin 6 gave me 4.33v. There wasn't much fluctuation, except when it first powered on. Also of note, I had left the hard drive, floppy drive and CDrom plugged in at this point to draw a little current.
The Silverstone PSU I don't have anything else plugged into, and it was a pretty solid 5v, 12.11v, -11.53~54 and 3.66v
By the way, the CF-IDE adapter is either completely fried, or the CF card is bad. It really does overheat (to the point where it could burn you if you left it on for more than 5-10 minutes. Even if I just plug power into it, it gets really hot. As you mentioned earlier, sounds like there's a short, but I don't see one anywhere, I'll try to look closer, could be that I loosened something under where the power connects that made a connection somewhere.)
I'm about to try swapping out the PSU again and see if it boots (could be the newer PSU detected the short and shut down, where as the A4000's original PSU doesn't have such a feature...)
slaapliedje
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Wow, so I hooked it all up and ran it... both the 12v and the 5v... they'll go up to about 3 volts, then it powers off. Fan stops spinning etc. I removed each device one by one to see if something was causing it, and removed the motherboard last... the motherboard is where the power drain happened. Anyone have any ideas there?
It's obviously not doing the same thing with the A4000D PSU. Though someone mentioned earlier in this thread that maybe the newer PSU needs a 3.3v connection somewhere?
slaapliedje
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Sounds like you may need someone to either fully test or repair the motherboard, cause something ain't quite right. Anyone near you with an A4000D you could do a swapsies with and test out their PSU with your MB and then your PSU with their MB? Or ya could just send the MB to Anthony Hoffman; his turn around time is damn quick despite the distance.
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Amiga 4000 does NEED the pwr_ok signal (reported _fail on a4000 schematics)
I noticed that the atx psu pwr_ok line is "only" 3.66 volts.. afaik it should be a logic level 1 (5 volt)
this signal tell to the amiga that the psu is operating good.
your atx do not need the 3.3v to be connected at all, because it doesn't shut down when you tested voltage on a4000 power connector with hdd, fdd and cd connected. They required only +5v and +12v to operate.
juri
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I actually had my motherboard recapped and tested last year by Amigakit, and I haven't had any problems with it except this FastATA card.
So it sounds to me like that 3.66v output is not sufficient for the A4000 to say "Hey, I have power" instead it gives me a big "!@#$ you, I'm turning off!"
Like I had said, even the PSU turns off at that point. Maybe I'll see if I can dig up another PSU to test with, I'm almost 100% sure it's not the Amiga, and it is the PSU. At least with that I can just find a cheaper solution. I'll probably use this PSU in a separate project (been thinking of building a steam machine :D )
slaapliedje
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Hmm,
OK, replace the CF connector (and card if it fails on a PC), or pm me your address and I'll send you a CF connector and 64MB CF card.
Assume the motherboard is not at fault.
Find another ATX-style to test to see if it is the Silverstone (which is a fornicating rip off if it is the Silverstone).
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Yeah, I'll rip an older ATX out of a computer I have sitting in my pile of parts when I get home and test that out.
Ha ha, yeah, that Silverstone was 95 bucks, I wanted it 'cause it was modular and I was hoping I could get rid of some of the non-needed cabling, though I find it crappy that all the 4-pin Molex cables I have are 8-pin except the one that came with it, and it needs a 6-pin. I have several modular power supplies 'cause they're awesome.
I may just have to go with the non-modular PSU that you suggested.
Will PM you, Thanks!
slaapliedje
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Are there any news? did you tried a different psu with success??
Juri
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Different PSU, no success. Though, at least I did get it to boot, but the FastATA still has the issue.
I think AllegroCDFS screwed up my system, 'cause now it won't fully boot, even on the hard drive that is just IDE and connected via the normal IDE connector.
But otherwise, I received the CF card adapter and 64mb card from Danbeaver (Thanks again!) and connected it up. Seemed like it was working fine, didn't lock up when I started the fastata.driver up, when I tried copying over a smaller file, then deleting it, it worked. Then I copied over a larger file and it said 'cannot output to..' or something like that, and now it's giving me a checksum error :(
I'm almost 100% sure the Transcend 32GB CF card is not compatible with the voltages or something, because it overheats on this adapter as well (the other adapter completely stopped working, I think it may have gotten hot enough to fry something).
I ended up ordering another (SanDisk this time, which I've seen recommended) 32GB CF card, along with a CF card adapter just like the one Dan sent me (again, many thanks!) so I can send the one back to him. This is very frustrating, seems that just about all the hardware that I've received from this purchase has issues.
Oh, the above tests were with the stock PSU.
slaapliedje
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Different PSU, no success. Though, at least I did get it to boot, but the FastATA still has the issue.
So it isn't psu related and i can confirm it!
i've a Cyberstorm MK1 with 68060@50mhz (no overclock) and i'm having your problem (can't go further PIO MODE 3) yesterday happened something really strange, a friend came to me with a standard A3640 to try it (his amiga have serious problems and he want to check if the CPU card was ok) tested ok, his A3640 cpu card was ok, so he asked me if i fixed my problem with fastata, and while talking i showed to him the problem, i setted to PIO MODE 5 and... nothing!! WHAT?? YES!! with a stock A3640 Fastata works PERFECTLY in PIO MODE 5!! (i'm getting a little bit under 6mb/s of transfer rate!) then i reinserted my CSMK1.. amiga locked.. after few second.. i had to re insert the A3640 to switch back to PIO MODE 3! now my amiga is working with the CSMK1 in pio mode 3... too bad!
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Holy %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!, I have the exact same hardware then! Interesting, I still have my A3640 and can swap them out and will confirm if that's the issue or not.
I tested the Transcend 32GB CF card in a USB card reader and it still gets hot, but seems to read/write just fine.
I bet you anything it's incompatible with something on the Cyberstorm MK1 then, either the 060 library or just the way it works. Anyone have any ideas on that?
slaapliedje
P.S. Wow, I didn't swear that much, just one four letter word. Guess A-eon turned on the filter and messed it up?
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...I bet you anything it's incompatible with something on the Cyberstorm MK1 then, either the 060 library or just the way it works. Anyone have any ideas on that?...
from elbox:
• Automatic processor type recognition
The FastATA 4000 MK-VI CF/SATA controller automatically detects type of processor and optimises and modifies some software routines in order to achieve the highest possible data transfer rate between the controller and the computer memory.
now afaik workbench recognize the 68060 as 68040 until setpatch is called... i've the fastata.driver command BEFORE the setpatch command..
it's very late here now, but tomorrow i've some free time and i will do some experiments.. then i let know :)
Juri
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from elbox:
•Automatic processor type recognition
The FastATA 4000 MK-VI CF/SATA controller automatically detects type of processor and optimises and modifies some software routines in order to achieve the highest possible data transfer rate between the controller and the computer memory.
now afaik workbench recognize the 68060 as 68040 until setpatch is called... i've the fastata.driver command BEFORE the setpatch command..
it's very late here now, but tomorrow i've some free time and i will do some experiments.. then i let know :)
Juri
I will somehow find a way to pay you if that is the fix! I'll give it a shot hopefully in an hour or so. Stuck at work 'til then. Though if that's the fix, I'm going to be pissed off at Elbox. I would think the installer would put FastATA.Driver after setpatch anyhow.
slaapliedje
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I will somehow find a way to pay you if that is the fix! I'll give it a shot hopefully in an hour or so. Stuck at work 'til then. Though if that's the fix, I'm going to be pissed off at Elbox. I would think the installer would put FastATA.Driver after setpatch anyhow.
slaapliedje
slaapliedjeeeeeeeeee
put beer on ice! I placed fastata.driver after setpatch and cpu command and.. fixed!
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D'oh! I'm still not having any luck. I can get it to boot off of the Emergency disk I've created, and it'll read at PIO mode 4, but as soon as I try to write anything to it, it freezes.
PIO Mode 0 is the only thing I can get to work, but then it won't boot off the CF Card. Granted this is my 32GB one that was overheating (seems to not do that so much now) and the errors I get when it tries to boot is 'C: not an executable, cannot load' or something like that.
Anyone have any ideas?
slaapliedje
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On my A1200 with Blizzard 060, ata3.driver is the second command on my Startup-Sequence after blizkick. I have two reboots.
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Blizkick * MODULE FixGetMsg LocalFast MoveVBR MuMove4k romupdate.idtag exec.library FastFileSystem card.resource misc.resource FileSystem.resource ram-handler console.device shell-seg trackdisk.device intuition.library layers.library SoftSCSI extresbuf=300000
C:ATA3.driver QUIET RESIDENT
C:stack 8192
SetPatch NOROMUPDATE QUIET
When I run ATA3Prefs after cold booting with no startup-sequence, ATA3Prefs says "68060 PROCESSOR DETECTED". I can set both my harddrives to PIO4 (but no PIO5 although it says max supported PIO5). No need for setpatch. Resident tag is ticked.
I think you might have a different problem. Not sure but maybe something related to max transfer rates or maybe even the file system... Just guessing.
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Unfortunately, the ata3.driver and fastata.driver are completely different. I don't see anything on the boot up (if I remove QUIET) except for the Drive, Size, and Speed.
I added the C:CPU060 line right above it and after SetPatch, and it now spews out a bunch of stuff about the 060 being loaded up but it still locks up with anything other than PIO 0.
I should have my new CF card adapter and card later today when I get home, so I'll give those a try and see if it will give me a more stable system.
slaapliedje
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afrer some testing i had to switch back to PIO 4 because with pio mode 5 even if drivetest report "OK,no errors" i have a lot of checksum errors and locks.. with PIO 4 all appear to be ok. one little difference is that my A4000 mount a fastata mkvi with rom 7.0 (but i do not think that's the problem) have you tried to remove setpatch command? just for try, or another version of setpatch/fastata.driver
i've a lot of sh*it that loads on my amiga 4000: mmu, mui, poseidon, cybervision, modified cyberstorm libraries.. when i've some free time i will try to unload all, and put another hdd with clean workbench install and only fastata driver (ofcourse stock cyberstorm libraries from install floppy) i would try os3.9 too
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Figured it was time for an update.
No matter what I do, how I have anything set up, if I go higher than PIO mode 3, my partitions are corrupted when I to write anything to disk. Then I have to re-copy everything over again via WinUAE.
On the upside, I actually read the PFS3 documentation and found that if you have a Zorro III IDE controller (which the FastATA 4000 MK-VI definitely is) than you should use 0xffffffff as your Mask (I think that's correct, pretty sure it was). This in theory enables DMA, and is really fast, even at PIO 3. I just wish I could get 4 or 5...
slaapliedje
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Well, I have the same card (ROM 8) as you do, and I do have a 300GB HDD I can get a "PIO 5" to work with, BUT the drive speed is less than 10 MB/s. I have not tried an SSD, but it isn't all that important, well at least to me...
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Yeah, an SSD on a max 10MB/s is a waste, unless you're going for quiet (in which case you may as well get CF card, though apparently some of them can be rather problematic).
I'll have to try another hard drive, I got a few old IDE ones I can throw on it, but as stated above, the reasoning behind a CF over Hard drive is the noise, it's nice to be that much quieter, some of those old Deathstars that I have are loud.
I did recently purchase two 480GB SSD drives for my computer, maybe I'll try out the other one in my Amiga...
slaapliedje
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Now I didn't say it would make sense, I just thought you might squeak out another byte per second over sadly slow interface. I don't know why UWSCSI was limited to just the Cyberstorm MK 3 & CSPPC. 35 MB/s is nothing to laugh off in the Classic Amiga field, and has to be bit easier to design than an accelerator.
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Yeah, 35MB/s is HUGE in the Classic Amiga realm. When you figure that probably the largest programs for the Amiga would be CD-ROM based, and even then, the actual programs are probably smaller than 30MB.
As it stands, the lowly speed I'm getting on the CF card right now makes most things seem almost instant.
Ha, even the SSD I just put Windows 7 on has some weird lag bringing up the UI for specific programs. Almost like the drive is faster than what Windows can handle.
It is sad that the MK1 only has the SCSI module, I'm guessing it only supports up to SCSI-2 drives.
I do have an Adaptec controller that works with the Mediator... unfortunately I can't use it as a boot drive... well and I'm out of PCI slots :D
slaapliedje
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SCSI 2 rocks on amiga, the MKI scsi claims to do 7MB/async and 10MB synchronous. It will be much lower over head on the cpu compared to the fastata i would imagine.
A fastlane z3 card on zorro3 would do about the same speed also(more overhead on z3 bus however).
Ide has always been terrible and cpu intensive, its the nature of the beast. POI especially.
I'm surprised you guys didnt just use scsi and a acard scsi bridge to use the cf on these setups? Its very reliable.
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Unfortunately I don't have the SCSI module, otherwise I would have! I figured the FastATA is a Zorro 3 card, so wouldn't that take advantage?
In the PFS3 documentation, it shows that you should use 0xfffffffc if you are using the internal IDE of an A4000, but if you're using a Zorro 3 bus card, you should use 0xffffffff as the mask in HDTools, so that's what I'm using now.
That was always the beauty of SCSI, it didn't take CPU load. Also why SCSI drives were more expensive. I always sort of referred to IDE drives as 'dumb' drives, since they only have very basic bits of controller on it, where it seemed SCSI certainly had more. They're all just otherwise platters. :D
At the current PIO Mode 3 that I'm running, drivespeed shows 4529485 Bytes/sec.
So it's not terribly bad (much better than the standard IDE controller) but not great.
In theory, it should get up to 15?
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Now I didn't say it would make sense, I just thought you might squeak out another byte per second over sadly slow interface. I don't know why UWSCSI was limited to just the Cyberstorm MK 3 & CSPPC. 35 MB/s is nothing to laugh off in the Classic Amiga field, and has to be bit easier to design than an accelerator.
I have a fast 68 pin SCSI drive with my CSMK3 and the best I have seen in multiple benchmarks is a little over 30MB/s which it can sustain. You may be right about peak or theoretical transfer speeds though. These boards also have one of the lowest CPU usage for the SCSI speed of Amiga accelerators. It's almost overkill for the Amiga but it sure is nice for compiling and image editing of 32 bit images.
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I believe that if it seems fast, then it is fast. I test stuff and report it just so it can be found on the Web, (not to make my phallus size seem larger). However, a U320 15K rotation speed HDD will get 36 MB/s out of a CSPPC/CS MK 3. Those numbers don't mean much in real world applications. I wanted the FastATA 4000 to backup partitions to a CF card faster than the standard A4000T IDE.
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I believe that if it seems fast, then it is fast. I test stuff and report it just so it can be found on the Web, (not to make my phallus size seem larger). However, a U320 15K rotation speed HDD will get 36 MB/s out of a CSPPC/CS MK 3. Those numbers don't mean much in real world applications. I wanted the FastATA 4000 to backup partitions to a CF card faster than the standard A4000T IDE.
Hear are my SysSpeed MB/s results with a 10k Atlas V:
CreateFile 28.71
WriteFile 32.77
ReadFile 29.72
RawRead 27.64
I had an older 15k Atlas (III?) before that was a little quicker but not much (1MB/s?). I choose to look at the average which is about 30MB/s. Maybe you were using another benchmark program or looking at the best result?
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I believe that if it seems fast, then it is fast. I test stuff and report it just so it can be found on the Web, (not to make my phallus size seem larger). However, a U320 15K rotation speed HDD will get 36 MB/s out of a CSPPC/CS MK 3. Those numbers don't mean much in real world applications. I wanted the FastATA 4000 to backup partitions to a CF card faster than the standard A4000T IDE.
Ha, speaking of the phallus thing.. this is totally off-topic, but needs to be shared...
So I bought a house with a friend and his family. They live upstairs, well he had decided to divorce his wife and leave me with them. Me being a long-term computer nerd (why else would I be on an Amiga forum?) had offered to help her rebuild a bunch of old computer parts that he left behind so that she could either sell them or give them to her kids.
Well, she instead somehow contacted a friend that she went to high-school with (so over 20 years ago) that came over and was sifting through the stuff. Well there was a really old SPARC that I'd kind of played with, and my friend didn't really know what to do with. So I said that I wanted it. This guy said "why, you can't even run a Minecraft server on it." I said "Sure you could, you'd just have to put more ram in it and it'd run so slow that it wouldn't really be playable.. but it'd run... besides, I already have a Minecraft server." "Well I have 4 of them! And a TF2 and Black Ops server."
At this point I almost laughed in his face. He also blurted out "I've been doing computers since I was 11!" I countered that by "I've been doing it since I was 8, and I still have my Atari 800XL to prove it."
But at that point I was thinking "what a waste of time, I'll just take these old IDE drives so I have some spare ones to play around with on the Miggy." :D
What a poser. I bet his first 'puter was a DOS box, which in my mind doesn't count as a real computer :D He instantly reminded me of 99% of Windows Administrators that think they know something about computers 'cause they can click Next a bunch of times and think they're awesome because they know a lot of acronyms.
He really did act like I was treading on his turf. But I was like 'meh, whatever dude.' I could have added that I run my own email server, proxy (with and without tor), have an Amiga to hack about, have built many clusters and can design and customize my own phone system.
But at that point, we may as well have just whipped out our junk and hoped that our fat bulges didn't cover them up. :D
slaapliedje
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Hear are my SysSpeed MB/s results with a 10k Atlas V:
CreateFile 28.71
WriteFile 32.77
ReadFile 29.72
RawRead 27.64
I had an older 15k Atlas (III?) before that was a little quicker but not much (1MB/s?). I choose to look at the average which is about 30MB/s. Maybe you were using another benchmark program or looking at the best result?
Yeah, it certainly seems that a 10k drive would drive the peak of performance. I wish I could boot the Amiga off of the UW SCSI card I have.. well and that I had an extra PCI slot for it. Or even if the Cyberstorm MK1 had a UW scsi module.
Quick question, so would the DMA on the Z3 bus be as fast (potentially) as the CPU style expansions? I would tend to think not, but not sure.
slaapliedje
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Well, the bus and interface limit transfer speeds. An accelerator with an onboard HDD controller bypasses the Zorro bus, just as their ram does. In theory the CS MK 3 & CSPPC's local PCI bus for the G Rex 4000 and CVPPC does the same.
The Zorro III bus in theory could transfer 150 MB/s, but in reality the Buster chip limited it to about 13.5 MB/s.
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Well, the bus and interface limit transfer speeds. An accelerator with an onboard HDD controller bypasses the Zorro bus, just as their ram does. In theory the CS MK 3 & CSPPC's local PCI bus for the G Rex 4000 and CVPPC does the same.
The Zorro III bus in theory could transfer 150 MB/s, but in reality the Buster chip limited it to about 13.5 MB/s.
That's right! Thanks for reminding me of that. It's actually kind of funny when you think about the design of the Amiga and computers in general. Really with modern day computers, the biggest bottleneck to performance is the Hard drive, SSDs are finally starting to do away with that, though PCIe Flash storage certainly is the fastest way to go (also really pricey!).
Sad that the Zorro 3 bus is crippled by the Buster chip in such a way. Would be nice if someone could/would develop a replacement.
Then again, most of these type of projects kind of fall into the category of getting a 1973 stingray loaded up with a modern engine, and eventually you may end up replacing the engine with an electrical one... then it just will no longer purr the same.
Then again, the normal Amiga 'purr' is one thing I'd like to get away from! :laughing: Even without the full speed, the silence of the CF Card rules... now if only I could get the newer ClassicWB to work with my Mediator...
slaapliedje
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Yeah, it certainly seems that a 10k drive would drive the peak of performance. I wish I could boot the Amiga off of the UW SCSI card I have.. well and that I had an extra PCI slot for it. Or even if the Cyberstorm MK1 had a UW scsi module.
Quick question, so would the DMA on the Z3 bus be as fast (potentially) as the CPU style expansions? I would tend to think not, but not sure.
slaapliedje
The UWscsi on the csppc and cs MKIII is absolutely great. Don't dismiss scsi2 on a accelerator(or fastlane z3) though, it will still beat the fastATA without a sweat.
Mediator scsi/sata cards cant do DMA since the mediator doesn't DMA to the amiga.
SCSI on the accelerator is always the best way(well in 99% of the cases). z3 will incur some overhead of course and will use more cpu time.
The next best scsi would be the zorro3 Fastlane Z3. I have a few of these cards and they easily do 8MB/s with the right drives or scsi bridge+cf.
The fastata was always infamous for having trouble running in higher pio modes. PIO IDE is just a bad way to do it imho. UDMA ide would of made more sense for a zorro3 card(if it could also dma to the amiga).
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That's right! Thanks for reminding me of that. It's actually kind of funny when you think about the design of the Amiga and computers in general. Really with modern day computers, the biggest bottleneck to performance is the Hard drive, SSDs are finally starting to do away with that, though PCIe Flash storage certainly is the fastest way to go (also really pricey!).
Sad that the Zorro 3 bus is crippled by the Buster chip in such a way. Would be nice if someone could/would develop a replacement.
That was the reason for having scsi on the accelerator,it made it local bus and bypassed the zorro2/3 bottleneck.
Then again, most of these type of projects kind of fall into the category of getting a 1973 stingray loaded up with a modern engine, and eventually you may end up replacing the engine with an electrical one... then it just will no longer purr the same.
Then again, the normal Amiga 'purr' is one thing I'd like to get away from! :laughing: Even without the full speed, the silence of the CF Card rules... now if only I could get the newer ClassicWB to work with my Mediator...
If you ever had a csppc or MK3 in that amiga you would love it. Nothing wrong with updating old stuff, no need to ignore technology,but some so called newer tech is better than others. A buster update would of been nice but if memory serves,brigette was also in need of fixing because it was slow and causes a memory bottleneck,hence why a4000 motherboard memory is slower than it should be.
slaapliedje[/QUOTE]