Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: abraXXious on April 27, 2014, 09:32:32 AM

Title: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: abraXXious on April 27, 2014, 09:32:32 AM
Hey guys,

I have read several threads that talk about using off the shelf RS232 to Ethernet adapters that support modem emulation in order to connect a classic miggy to an Ethernet network and access the 'net. I know, depending on the CPU in the miggy, it would not be the fastest, but it would be interesting to do. Especially if you have a miggy fitted with a high speed, low cpu load serial device, such as the Silversurfer.

Would one of these work - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RS232-to-Ethernet-TCP-IP-RJ45-Converter-Module-Serial-Device-Server-10-100M-/110930750950?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item19d3fcede6 ?

If so, could some clever miggy user PLEASE write some form of guide to setting up both the hardware and software so the rest of us could make use of these cheap units? Just think, we could all be playing Dynamite online and chatting in real time with our ole' 1200s! :)
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: danwood on April 27, 2014, 11:28:24 AM
Easiest and cheapest way with an A1200 is a PCMCIA ethernet card.

See here: http://youtu.be/svTDHiBePyM
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: abraXXious on April 27, 2014, 12:06:43 PM
Quote from: danwood;763383
Easiest and cheapest way with an A1200 is a PCMCIA ethernet card.

See here: http://youtu.be/svTDHiBePyM

Lol, yessum, we all know that - I have several A1200s and even an ACA630 equipped A600 using a pcmcia Ethernet solution.
 
 However, this is not a solution for the A500 and A1000. It is a Phoenix equipped A1000 that I was intending to do this to.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: gertsy on April 27, 2014, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: abraXXious;763384
Lol, yessum, we all know that - I have several A1200s and even an ACA630 equipped A600 using a pcmcia Ethernet solution.
 
 However, this is not a solution for the A500 and A1000. It is a Phoenix equipped A1000 that I was intending to do this to.


It's gotta be slow, but plausible.  For FTP it could be a way to connect up machines.  But not very practical. I guess hi-speed serial would make it a little more attractive.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: Duce on April 27, 2014, 01:25:59 PM
Wouldn't be quick enough for most people, I suspect.  But maybe I'm picky, it drives me nuts to use anything slower than gigabit ethernet.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: abraXXious on April 27, 2014, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: Duce;763386
Wouldn't be quick enough for most people, I suspect. But maybe I'm picky, it drives me nuts to use anything slower than gigabit ethernet.

Hmmmm, not sure what you mean. The word "quick" does not enter into the equation if the conversation is about internet access on a 68000 based computer. :)
 
 To be honest, I think when you reach even 20kb per second then the bottle neck is no longer the speed at which you can retrieve data over the Ethernet  connection, bur rather, the speed at which the poor old 68000 can process it and display something useful!
 
 At the very least, the sort of person wanting to do this would surely be doing it out of novelty standpoint - myself included as browsing the internet in its modern java/frame etc form is painful even on a fast 060 with RTG.
 
 However, being able to use IRC, a basic web browser to connect to sites like Aminet etc and play the occasional networked game should be doable even on a lowly 68000 with 20kb per second "crippled" broadband.
 
 What do you think?
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: Akiko on April 27, 2014, 02:07:25 PM
With all the new accelerators I think the plipbox project perfectly suits the A500 etc, it uses the parallel port instead of other serial solutions should offer reasonable speeds.

http://lallafa.de/blog/amiga-projects/plipbox/plipbox-hardware/

I just wish Amigakit or someone would assemble these for the community, the plipbox author on his website said he has no problem with this.
Title: Cheapest Ethernet solution for Classic unexpandable Amigas
Post by: danbeaver on April 27, 2014, 03:57:37 PM
If you want to Cerf the net on an A500/1000 and don't care about speed, then use a modem and dial-up connection.  If you need to download files, then sneakernet is cheapest.  There are ParNet/SerNet solutions, but I'd just buy an old A2000 and one of the used Zorro2 NIC cards for another $100 and go that route.  To Cerf in modern terms you need an accelerator and at least 10 MB/s connection using OWB or similar.  Otherwise Cerf on a modern device and sneakernet files by floppy or CDROM.

I could be wrong now.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: psxphill on April 27, 2014, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Duce;763386
Wouldn't be quick enough for most people, I suspect. But maybe I'm picky, it drives me nuts to use anything slower than gigabit ethernet.

Gigabit on a classic Amiga would be disappointing as none of them have that kind of bandwidth on their buses.

There isn't much on an Amiga that needs vast amounts of data to be transferred though, especially an a500.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: giZmo350 on April 27, 2014, 05:29:14 PM
I would surely buy and use this on my A500/2000 just to get some stuff from Aminet & WHDLoad transferred to my HDDs! It's cheap! Would be kind of pointless if you didn't have an HDD though. It would be great if AmigaKit put code in the new EasyNet software to light this Serial interface up! Even if it was 10K/s download it would be a great convenience! :)
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: Gulliver on April 27, 2014, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: gizmo350;763402
I would surely buy and use this on my A500/2000 just to get some stuff from Aminet & WHDLoad transferred to my HDDs! It's cheap! Would be kind of pointless if you didn't have an HDD though.


I agree this would be pretty useful on an A1000 or an A500 with harddisk. But it seems no one bit the bullet and actually did it :(
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: danbeaver on April 27, 2014, 07:13:31 PM
There was is information on this subject on the Lemon Amiga Forum and I actually have one of the modules I got a few years back, I just never got that "into" it.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: Methanoid on April 27, 2014, 07:18:35 PM
AmigaKit should do this.. but how does it compare to PCMCIA speed-wise?
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: freqmax on April 27, 2014, 09:54:59 PM
Use the parallell port and wire it with a microcontroller like ARM and a Ethernet port. The floppy port is also an option at 11 kB/s or so.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: danwood on April 27, 2014, 10:55:21 PM
Quote from: abraXXious;763384
Lol, yessum, we all know that - I have several A1200s and even an ACA630 equipped A600 using a pcmcia Ethernet solution.
 
However, this is not a solution for the A500 and A1000. It is a Phoenix equipped A1000 that I was intending to do this to.


Ok, to be fair you did say 1200...

Quote from: abraXXious;763379
Just think, we could all be playing Dynamite online and chatting in real time with our ole' 1200s! :)
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: 3583Bytes on April 27, 2014, 11:19:21 PM
I am in the same boat, if someone had a $100 solution for internet (even slow) for my Amiga 500 I would totally buy it.  Specially now that I ordered a ACA 500 for mine, it will be a much more useful machine.

Currently I have 2 cheap solutions, one is use a Linux computer or Raspberry Pi and access the internet via it's console shell (Lynx).  This is rather more limited but it works on all Amigas even the Amiga 1000 with WB 1.3.

I wrote a tutorial on how to do this.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67191 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67191)

Second is use a Raspberry Pi or Linux machine (virtual or physical) to host a PPP connection over Serial.  I am still working on that since there is no clear Amiga tutorial that gives you the whole picture.  But I think I am close, once I get it going I will share a tutorial with the correct settings.


Also I am sick of everyone always pointing to getting a 1200 as a solution.  They are rare in North America and expensive to ship from EU.  The commodore 64 has a version of Lynx and can easily (slowly) surf the internet for about $100, the Amiga 500/2000 should be able to as well.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: Themamboman on April 27, 2014, 11:54:48 PM
Has anyone ever done any speed testing on the plipbox?  

I thought someone was going to a few months ago, but never saw anything in the forum thread.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: danbeaver on April 28, 2014, 02:38:00 PM
A modem and dialup connection are cheaper and was the standard 20 years ago; Termite TCP and IBrowse worked fine and I still have my original disks.  As for the A500 and A2000, I still have AppleTalk networking hardware and software that put them online 20 years ago.  But for modern Cerfing, I would get a more modern computer and A1200's are available to US buyers, as are all the other models with the A2000 still able to handle "moderate" Cerfing with a NIC, RTG, and an accelerator.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: abraXXious on April 30, 2014, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: danwood;763414
Ok, to be fair you did say 1200...

Lol, I actually said that facetiously, as in to say "think of all the low end classic miggies that could benefit from it to go online" - Dynamite was the first thing that came to mind that could use such internet access, and from memory Dynamite needs AGA at a minimum..... or will it run in OCS/ECS?
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: abraXXious on April 30, 2014, 11:14:53 AM
Yessum, I don't consider using another system as a file server/terminal as a proper solution as then the host machine is not a standalone system - very messy.
 
 The sad thing is my C64 has native Ethernet access via my MMC64 / RR-Net setup. Along with the IDE64 it has attached, I have access to 400GB of high speed disk access, a DVD Burner and Ethernet.... in fact, the Telnet client available for the C64 is amazing....
 
 .... and this is a <1mhz C64!!!
 
 Surprisingly, no one has written an Amiga driver for the RR-Net even though it plugs into the MMC64 clockport which itself is a clone of the Amiga clockports.
 
 From memory Jens looked into it and said there was no point as the way the RR-Net worked (some form of polling system) you could only get about 50kb per second from it. This is crazy as 50kb per second would be HEAPS for 99.9% of classic Amiga networking.
 
 Only 10 years ago most of the world was using V90 dial up modems which can get 5kb per second on a good day. This was fine for browsing then, you cant tell me TEN times that is not good enough for basic browsing now?
 
 Of course, with a classic miggy you are not going to be visiting youtube etc etc, so 50kb per second would be loads.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: 3583Bytes on April 30, 2014, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: abraXXious;763566
Yessum, I don't consider using another system as a file server/terminal as a proper solution as then the host machine is not a standalone system - very messy.
 
The sad thing is my C64 has native Ethernet access via my MMC64 / RR-Net setup. Along with the IDE64 it has attached, I have access to 400GB of high speed disk access, a DVD Burner and Ethernet.... in fact, the Telnet client available for the C64 is amazing....
 
.... and this is a <1mhz C64!!!
 
Surprisingly, no one has written an Amiga driver for the RR-Net even though it plugs into the MMC64 clockport which itself is a clone of the Amiga clockports.
 
From memory Jens looked into it and said there was no point as the way the RR-Net worked (some form of polling system) you could only get about 50kb per second from it. This is crazy as 50kb per second would be HEAPS for 99.9% of classic Amiga networking.
 
Only 10 years ago most of the world was using V90 dial up modems which can get 5kb per second on a good day. This was fine for browsing then, you cant tell me TEN times that is not good enough for basic browsing now?
 
Of course, with a classic miggy you are not going to be visiting youtube etc etc, so 50kb per second would be loads.

Totally agree, my c64 can get online easily, the A500/1000 should as well.
Title: Re: Cheap Ethernet solution for Classic Amigas
Post by: freqmax on May 02, 2014, 09:58:20 AM
If one blasts the parallell port in output mode on Amiga without waiting for any external unit how long is the cycle time?