Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on March 30, 2014, 07:13:08 AM
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News from AmigaKit
For a limited time until 7 April 2014, AmigaKit.com is offering free standard shipping on all AmigaONE X1000 systems or Nemo motherboard orders.
To get free standard shipping, enter the coupon code X1000FREESHIP and click Redeem button during Checkout.
About the X1000
AmigaOne X1000 is the highest performance AmigaOS computer system assembled around the Nemo motherboard. It is compatible with latest AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 operating system and also a wide range of selected Linux distributions.
Inside X1000 Case: Expandable and Upgradable
The AmigaOne X1000 has a spacious case design which gives you the flexibility to add more hard disk drives, optical drives, memory and expansion cards.
The motherboard features 4x DIMM memory slots, 10x USB 2.0 connectors, 4x PCI-E slots, 2x PCI legacy slots, 1x Xorro slot, 4x SATA 2 connectors, 1x IDE connectors and 1x Compact Flash slot making the X1000 a truly expandable machine!
XMOS Co-Processor On Board
The AmigaOne X1000 also is equipped with a XMOS (500 MHz) processor and Xorro expansion slot on the motherboard. Capable of eight concurrent real-time threads with shared memory space, at up to 500 MIPS, Xena gives the X1000 a very flexible, very expandable co-processor. The uses are endless; control hardware, DSP functions, robotics, display - even SID chip and console emulators.
There is an optional Xorro Project Board available for electronics enthusiasts and engineers to create their own XMOS/Xorro projects. XMOS
RadeonHD on Amiga: Experience Amiga Workbench in full HD colour graphics with HD Audio!
The new RadeonHD Graphics Card Driver1.0 has been developed for using the latest RadeonHD graphics cards in modern AmigaOS computers such as the AmigaOne X1000. Using Workbench 4.1 on the AmigaOne X1000 is fast and responsive with compositing visual effects enhancing the experience.
Another first for AmigaOS is the new HD Audio driver which unlocks advanced sound features on the X1000 motherboard in AmigaOS 4.1.
Includes AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 operating system, RadeonHD graphics driver and HD Audio driver pre-installed on the hard disk drive, ready-to-go.
Where to buy:
USA Store:
http://www.amigakit.us/product_info.php?products_id=1071
UK Store:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/GBP.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1071
Europe Store:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/EUR.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1071
Canada Store:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/CAD.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1071
More Information
http://www.amigakit.com/x1000
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It has been a while since I stopped in at AmigaKit(sorry).. $3,000..wow. Just curious have you sold "a lot" of these??
Rich
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Nice to see free shipping, but I agree. I just cant get over that price.
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It has been a while since I stopped in at AmigaKit(sorry).. $3,000..wow. Just curious have you sold "a lot" of these??
Rich
You are mistaking...it is not 3k. It is 3,300 get your price facts right lol
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It's $2992.02 USD or 2,149.96 GBP
Weird pricing on the Euro and Canadian site. Both show $3,314.52. If it was half that price I might be tempted to put my hand up. Even buying the motherboard on it's own is $2,736.46 USD so no saving there.
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I know some more amiga shops and dont do spam everytime on forums.
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@kickstart
We have not spammed the forum. This is a news item, not posted by us but by the moderator of this site.
Besides, any customers who would like to save money on shipping would welcome this news.
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It's $2992.02 USD or 2,149.96 GBP
Weird pricing on the Euro and Canadian site. Both show $3,314.52. If it was half that price I might be tempted to put my hand up. Even buying the motherboard on it's own is $2,736.46 USD so no saving there.
Not sure if you clicked the wrong link there, but the Canadian site shows $3314.52 CAD, the US site $2992.02 USD, the European site E2622.95 and the UK site £2149.96
Product price calculated in (CAD,USD,EUR,GBP) with internal exchange rate based on a GBP Sterling Ex VAT price of 1,791.63 [Buy now price includes local taxes (eg VAT) where applicable].
Good of Amigakit to offer this out of their own pockets, I'm sure shipping each system will not be cheap. I'm not convinced it'll be a deal-maker for many people considering buying one, but I'm sure it'll be a welcome discount for those who do.
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Well for 2k system i would expect free shipping regardless :)
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@carvedeye
There is a wafer thin margin on each X1000 sold, so we cannot go offering big discounts such as free shipping on a regular basis, otherwise there would be no point in us selling the unit in the first place. The X1000 is a very costly piece of kit to manufacture.
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This thread demonstrates very well why there are so few Amiga developments.
Make a low end computer that's cheap? Get complaints that it's not as powerful as a PC made in its millions.
Make a high end computer that's expensive? Get complaints it's too pricey compared to a PC made in its millions.
Make both? Get complaints that the low end one is too slow AND the high end one is too expensive.
And then when you offer free shipping, get complained at for "spamming" when a sysadmin posts the news.
Reading this sort if thread, I do sometimes wonder why A-Eon and Amigakit bother (trust me, it's not for the money, given the size of the market), but I and many others are very glad they do.
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Damn, I knew as son as I saw the title of this thread that it was going to be full of complaints about the product pricing.
Thanks AmigaKit, but maybe you shouldn't have bothered, especially if its cutting into your margin.
This product is only going to appeal to someone willing to pay a premium for it, and a small price reduction won't sway other buyers.
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...This product is only going to appeal to someone willing to pay a premium for it, and a small price reduction won't sway other buyers.
thanks for stating the obvious. Yes of course, this news is only for people already in the market to buy an X1000 and then of course it would be welcome news especially if you're ordering from the other side of the earth:)
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maybe you shouldn't have bothered, especially if its cutting into your margin.
Well, only 3 months ago there was the X1000 "Christmas Cracker" sale, and now it's a "free shipment" sale. I guess you have to do *something* if the products that you have locked up a lot of your capital in, is collecting dust on your shelves, regardless of margins, yes...?
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thanks for stating the obvious. Yes of course, this news is only for people already in the market to buy an X1000 and then of course it would be welcome news especially if you're ordering from the other side of the earth:)
As someone who regularly DOES ship half way around the world, shipping
isn't a very high percentage of this device's cost, but any savings would be welcome.
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@carvedeye
There is a wafer thin margin on each X1000 sold, so we cannot go offering big discounts such as free shipping on a regular basis, otherwise there would be no point in us selling the unit in the first place. The X1000 is a very costly piece of kit to manufacture.
Well..that begs the question.. Why manufaure the kit at all? Doesn't seem all that
profitable. What makes it so pricey? The lack of volume?
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Yes lack of volume- to make it significantly cheaper, units would have to be made in the 10,000 range. Also CPU is not the cheapest available- prices have ranged from $600 - $1000 per CPU.
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And then when you offer free shipping, get complained at for "spamming" when a sysadmin posts the news.
Spam is not for this post is for hundreds of post, refer to x1000 with or without shipping, is expensive for a underpowered computer using the Amiga name.
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Well..that begs the question.. Why manufaure the kit at all? Doesn't seem all that profitable...
Yep, and paying over $1000 for a PPC accelerator for a legacy machine doesn't make sense either, but we do it.
If a sub 300MHz board is worth $1000, a six times faster board at $3000 doesn't sound as unreasonable.
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Yep, and paying over $1000 for a PPC accelerator for a legacy machine doesn't make sense either, but we do it.
If a sub 300MHz board is worth $1000, a six times faster board at $3000 doesn't sound as unreasonable.
Well the vintage Amiga stuff is most always $$. How many of these have been sold?
If a PPC accelerator came up for say. $1,200 then that seems like a bargain in comparison. So your logic works the opposite way as well. Not baggin on it..if I had a ton of disposable cash I might buy one. Just was
stunned when I saw the price.
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I was calculating how many A4000D I need to sell in order to get an X1000 I calculated that I need to sell 3 Amiga 4000D each going for 900 bucks...then an over buffed Amiga 1200 to obtain an X1000.
Now I do have an A4000D so even if I did manage to sell it and somehow did manage to get 900 buck...that by itself insufficient amount of cash to buy an x1000.
Now i make per month say anywhere between 400 to 600. So even if I did manage to make 600 a month non-stop plus selling the A4000D it would take me 4 month to make up the price of an X1000. Then add to shipping and handling because there is no way this offer is lasting 4 month.
Now that is assuming my A4000D did indeed go for 900 and I did indeed make 600 a month and I did indeed not spend a single dime on it....and I did indeed thing it is worth purchasing...and I did indeed did not go crying spending 3.3k as I saw in my account I have 3.3k and then click buy for X1000 for 3.3k then in my balance shows 0.....and I look in my bank and saw I spend 3.3k for a computer...and I did not call 911 for mental hospital for spending 3.3k on a computer...assuming all of those obstacles have passed me...then I can afford me an X1000 :)
Of course that is not going to happen...because A) I am not going to sell my A4000D as I use it to sleep in the night with it's sweet humming fans lol.
B) When I have 3.3k and since I am a console gamer..always have..always will be...I will have urge to spend games for my PS 4/PS 3...and will..other expenses..and I can never have this urge to have 3.3k and spend it all in one shot for a single PC when I have already a laptop x86, iBook G4 MorphOS and a huge strong x86 tower PC, plus my Amiga 4000D, Amiga 500, ipad and I have PS Vita, PS3, PS 4 and PS 2 I do not think I am crazy for OS 4.1.
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Good offer for those who lives far away from UK and wants X1000 and OS4 :-)
Hit it now or never ;-)
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Not sure if you clicked the wrong link there, but the Canadian site shows $3314.52 CAD, the US site $2992.02 USD, the European site E2622.95 and the UK site £2149.96
Just clicking the Euro link in the OP's post.... as per screen shot...
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This thread demonstrates very well why there are so few Amiga developments..
Actually I'd be very happy with a second hand Sam440/460. The price seems to be around the 300-600 euros for a nice setup.
Even an older AmigaOne Xe would be nice. Now that's a bargain, but would need to sell my A1200T before I could buy one, but that would be a hard thing to do.
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Actually I'd be very happy with a second hand Sam440/460. The price seems to be around the 300-600 euros for a nice setup.
Even an older AmigaOne Xe would be nice. Now that's a bargain, but would need to sell my A1200T before I could buy one, but that would be a hard thing to do.
Don't hesitate to buy one, you'll be happy with it. Main question is can you live without working 3D and wait it to complete? If you can buy 460 and if you don't have patience buy 440ep Flex.
300€ is not a big money for adult :) Considering how easily it can spend doing nothing ;)
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Don't hesitate to buy one, you'll be happy with it. Main question is can you live without working 3D and wait it to complete? If you can buy 460 and if you don't have patience buy 440ep Flex.
300¤ is not a big money for adult :) Considering how easily it can spend doing nothing ;)
Look it at another way it's cheaper than a PPC card and faster by some margin too :-)
Going by what I've seen the sam440ep flex is ample power for the applications out there. Seems to browse okay too :-)
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Actually I'd be very happy with a second hand Sam440/460. The price seems to be around the 300-600 euros for a nice setup.
Even an older AmigaOne Xe would be nice. Now that's a bargain, but would need to sell my A1200T before I could buy one, but that would be a hard thing to do.
if you are going to sell a truly genuine machine of sentimental value to get a computer that runs the same software under emulation plus can run some linux ports, then considering all aspects you might be better off with a pc.
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if you are going to sell a truly genuine machine of sentimental value to get a computer that runs the same software under emulation plus can run some linux ports, then considering all aspects you might be better off with a pc.
At least partially true, but we are all different. I have sold only one Amiga and regret it a lot.
Amigas has a hobby value, most likely you woun't ever get back what you sell today.
With sam flex you can do most of dayli tasks like surfing web watching PAL/NTSC quality movies etc. but it is stilla a hobby machine.
PS. I bought a new amiga last week, now I trying to build like the one I had before :) I'm looking CDTV keyboard, wireless mouse and diskdrive.
(https://zjolha.blu.livefilestore.com/y2pzny8hj0yi1TG38so2G-Q19wmbMPTdL3SkKeyOXBTipKebVZ4hi9RPnk8hztjainyNLM0twjn3k9Z-aL-1ZeIeE3R8QN9SfBAWZkX6HXK9fA/WP_20140327_009.jpg)
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@wawrzon
if you are going to sell a truly genuine machine of sentimental value
What makes you sentimental?
the things you can do on it?
How you use it?
Or the smell of old dust inside the computer?
to get a computer that runs the same software under emulation.
AmigaOS4 Software is not running under emulation, if you like new programs and the OS, more then you like old Amiga500 games.
If getting on the Internet is important to you then AmigaOS4 on new PowerPC computer is way better to use then AmigaOS3 whit old browser.
plus can run some Linux ports, then considering all aspects you might be better off with a pc.
No one is forced you to run Linux ports, there are other programs to use as well, that do not come from Linux. The problem whit AmigaOS3 software is that its old.
Take Dpaint or Ppaint, this are arguably the best paint programs for AmigaOS, but they do not support 32bit and does not support a lot features not compared to modern paint programs.
People need software and it has to come from some where, if a AmigaOS3 program that has been updated, or if its a Linux program that has rewritten to run on AmigaOS4, or AmigaOS3 make little difference to the user.
Its a bit like companing that you can run DukeNuke'em 3D or DOOM on Classic Amiga. Originally this where PC games or MSDOS, you don't go telling people to run MSDOS instead of AmigaOS, because the games comes from MSDOS.
Most of the Amiga games where ported to AmigaOS, even in 1980's and 1990's. Many games came from C64, some came from MSDOS, some came from Atari.
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The RadeonHD v1.0 driver (http://www.a-eon.biz/?news=27-03-2014) has today been released for FREE for all AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) users.
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Take Dpaint or Ppaint, this are arguably the best paint programs for AmigaOS, but they do not support 32bit and does not support a lot features not compared to modern paint programs.
Don't forget Brilliance 2 ;) Anyway, those paint programs are aimed at indexed pixel art in up to 256 colors. The kind of features you want for true color graphics fall outside of the scope of this software.
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Is there really any 'new' X1000 customers left?
Surely those who adore and admire the system would have purchased this item when it was first released. I guess buy one get one half price would entice many, but that's the manufacturer call not the retailer. Just curious (as I don't follow these things) has the price of the X1000 dropped considering how long it has been out -- it's a bit dated by now?
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Is there really any 'new' X1000 customers left?
Surely those who adore and admire the system would have purchased this item when it was first released. I guess buy one get one half price would entice many, but that's the manufacturer call not the retailer. Just curious (as I don't follow these things) has the price of the X1000 dropped considering how long it has been out -- it's a bit dated by now?
Nope, thanks to an increase in CPU prices, the cost of production has actually gone up.
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Just curious (as I don't follow these things) has the price of the X1000 dropped considering how long it has been out
If they lowered the price, then they'd probably loose money.
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Well..that begs the question.. Why manufaure the kit at all?
They manufacture the kit so I can have a new Miggy. :) After all, my Amiga 4000 is rather long in the tooth by now and not so speedy. Thanks, AmigaKit, A-Eon, etc., for making my Miggy (I actually just call it my Amiga, but don't want to start an upheaval here!) possible. It has been a lot of fun and worth every penny to me.
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They manufacture the kit so I can have a new Miggy. :) After all, my Amiga 4000 is rather long in the tooth by now and not so speedy. Thanks, AmigaKit, A-Eon, etc., for making my Miggy (I actually just call it my Amiga, but don't want to start an upheaval here!) possible. It has been a lot of fun and worth every penny to me.
+1 Mike! very proud to have my X1000 sitting right next to my original Amiga 1000 in my man cave so cheers to A-Eon & Amigakit for making it a reality:knuddel: love seeing all the updates come along and today i see Hans released the new HdRadeon driver v1.0:drink:
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Happy X1000 owner here. Certainly the best Amiga I have ever had.
It's the end of the financial year fellas! What else you gonna spend that tax rebate on ;-)
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Wish A-EON would make a mid range offering. Was looking into a X1000 recently and realized I could buy a Titan Z for cheaper.
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Happy X1000 owner here. Certainly the best Amiga I have ever had.
It's the end of the financial year fellas! What else you gonna spend that tax rebate on ;-)
The x1000 is the best "amiga" for you? really? you never had a real amiga?... if the answer is yes, the amiga "community" is really dead.
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@kickstart
DDNI has had many Amiga systems over the years and made quite a few YouTube videos about his experiences. I recall the videos he made demonstrating his heavily upgraded A1200T in recent years. So I think he is fully aware of the pros and cons of owning Amiga computers and is well qualified to decide whether his X1000 system is the best system he has owned so far.
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The x1000 is the best "amiga" for you? really? you never had a real amiga?... if the answer is yes, the amiga "community" is really dead.
Kickstart you make it sound like AOS4.1 is in the same league with AROS and MorphOS but in a very expensive hardware.
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What a bunch of sloppy negativity on this thread. Typical. I loved the X1000 when I got to use one, just don't have time or space right now. AmigaKit, good luck with your sale, and thanks for all your hard work to support this bunch of whiners. :roflmao:
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The x1000 is the best "amiga" for you? really? you never had a real amiga?... if the answer is yes, the amiga "community" is really dead.
Maybe Im missing the point of your post, but do you have to either love or hate NG/Classic hardware?
Plus, preceptions/taste varies from person to person.
Just cause someone at the moment enjoys X1000/NG/insert any variation more than "classic", doesnt invalidate a community.
My personal taste; I really dislike Apple OS/IOS (exposed to it thru work), while many that I know prefer it.
My personal taste doesnt invalidate other peoples expirience or the value it brings to them.
I would say the same should apply to "amiga community", atleast I can hope.
Never understood why people have to be either NG or Classic.
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Kickstart, I normally ignore ill informed posts, but as this one is directed at me, I will list my Amiga heritage.
First Amiga in 1986, constant use of Amiga until 1997. 6 year gap. Missed the red blue wars. Returned in 2006.
A500 x4 with various accelerators and WB setups
A600 with 030 and ClassicWB
A1200 x3 with 030 accelerators
A1200 Mediator BPPC @ 330mhz 060 @ 70mhz OS3.9 - Sold
A1200 BPPC @240 060 @50 BVision OS 3.9 - Sold
AmigaOne X1000 OS4.1 update 6
Does this qualify me to hold an opinion on the X1000 that I use everyday? Or perhaps I should be doing what many others do, read spurious forum posts and form an opinion having never even seen a real X1000?
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Wish A-EON would make a mid range offering. Was looking into a X1000 recently and realized I could buy a Titan Z for cheaper.
The mid-range AmigaNG is made by Acube; by all accounts and rumors, new production begins in May.
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Kickstart, I normally ignore ill informed posts, but as this one is directed at me, I will list my Amiga heritage.
First Amiga in 1986, constant use of Amiga until 1997. 6 year gap. Missed the red blue wars. Returned in 2006.
A500 x4 with various accelerators and WB setups
A600 with 030 and ClassicWB
A1200 x3 with 030 accelerators
A1200 Mediator BPPC @ 330mhz 060 @ 70mhz OS3.9 - Sold
A1200 BPPC @240 060 @50 BVision OS 3.9 - Sold
AmigaOne X1000 OS4.1 update 6
Does this qualify me to hold an opinion on the X1000 that I use everyday? Or perhaps I should be doing what many others do, read spurious forum posts and form an opinion having never even seen a real X1000?
Don't bother with this, he just wants to insult you.
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Kickstart, I normally ignore ill informed posts, but as this one is directed at me, I will list my Amiga heritage.
First Amiga in 1986, constant use of Amiga until 1997. 6 year gap. Missed the red blue wars. Returned in 2006.
A500 x4 with various accelerators and WB setups
A600 with 030 and ClassicWB
A1200 x3 with 030 accelerators
A1200 Mediator BPPC @ 330mhz 060 @ 70mhz OS3.9 - Sold
A1200 BPPC @240 060 @50 BVision OS 3.9 - Sold
AmigaOne X1000 OS4.1 update 6
Does this qualify me to hold an opinion on the X1000 that I use everyday? Or perhaps I should be doing what many others do, read spurious forum posts and form an opinion having never even seen a real X1000?
The x1000 is better for you than the real amigas or its a joke? just a question not insult...
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oh boy here we go again.. I'm counting the seconds till our friend TMHG shows up:p
@ kickstart
what you define as 'best' may not be what others believe..surprise surprise..sigh
your previous post 'The x1000 is the best "amiga" for you? really? you never had a real amiga?... if the answer is yes, the amiga "community" is really dead.' is uncalled for & trolling at its worst considering the thread title
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My envy senses are tingling.
Ill informed debate is a symptom of modern society isn't it?
I think therefore I Yam.
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I'd like to see the actual number of X1000's sold to date. Im sure OS 4 is great and it's def. 100% Amiga! Why not just bag this X1000 hardware and blast out OS4.xxx for current hardware..or even vintage Mac PPC stuff. Seems like wasted effort at those prices and lack of serious demand!!
New Mac Pro 2,999.00 just sayin.. for comparison sake.
Rich.
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I don't think it is that good of a deal. They may be having trouble moving them and reduce the price further. Not to mention people will waiting for the upgrade.
I'm pretty sure you can buy a 50inch 3D TV at that price.
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I'm pretty sure you can buy a 50inch 3D TV at that price.
Why do people insist on making these comparisons? Can your 50" TV run AmigaOS?
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Why do people insist on making these comparisons? Can your 50" TV run AmigaOS?
My Amiga 500 can run AmigaOS and it is the greatest Amiga ever.
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Kickstart, I normally ignore ill informed posts, but as this one is directed at me, I will list my Amiga heritage.
First Amiga in 1986, constant use of Amiga until 1997. 6 year gap. Missed the red blue wars. Returned in 2006.
A500 x4 with various accelerators and WB setups
A600 with 030 and ClassicWB
A1200 x3 with 030 accelerators
A1200 Mediator BPPC @ 330mhz 060 @ 70mhz OS3.9 - Sold
A1200 BPPC @240 060 @50 BVision OS 3.9 - Sold
AmigaOne X1000 OS4.1 update 6
Does this qualify me to hold an opinion on the X1000 that I use everyday? Or perhaps I should be doing what many others do, read spurious forum posts and form an opinion having never even seen a real X1000?
You should not react to posts like this. We all have different definitions of "Amiga" today (for me it is the "classic" line with todays continuations including Aros 68k and AROS, AmigaOS and MorphOS as something different), you see X1000 and AmigaOS as Amiga, others see MorphOS as Amiga who cares...
The split is strength and curse at the same time, strength because we (in opposite f.e. to C64 or Atari community) have modern implementations partly even on different hardware, curse because it splits the resources. We should try to compete against each other and make best offers and try to peruade users with it and not bash each other or call other "trolls" and similar.
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Alright, but don't act like they will leave the market if you don't buy at that price.
There is a small amount of people in the community who can afford to pay any price for an Amiga and will.
Others would prefer something in the sam460 price range.
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My Amiga 500 can run AmigaOS and it is the greatest Amiga ever.
The gratest amiga ever and a real amiga, not these sams or x1000... is good to know that there are still people who know it =)
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I like how all your bashing of the X1000 is keeping this post at the top of the homepage... thus promoting AmigaKit's sale even more. Methinks your plans have backfired, LOL. :roflmao:
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The encouraging thing is that the majority of customers who have bought the AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) computers from us this week have all been new customers, presumably from outside our community. This is good news as it makes the user base larger. With the AMIStore project coming online soon, this will attract new developers also from outside the community.
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@AmigaKit
Wait....are you saying you have larger customer sales because of this forum post?
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@AmigaKit
Wait....are you saying you have larger customer sales because of this forum post?
Making posts and getting exposiure regarding their hardware certainly cant hurt.
I for one noticed amigakit thru posts on this very forum.
I might not have sunk in xxxx euros on a NG machine, but ive picked up bits and pieces over the years.
Making a few posts on a few forum cost nothing, probarly generate some extra income and makes info even more easily found by unaware potential customers.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
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I only heard of Amigakit through forum posts on English Amiga Board.
It took me a while to appreciate how dedicated they were to the Amiga. For a long time I was convinced that they must be either an off shoot of a bigger company or just a small spare room hobby store. I was very impressed when I discovered they were a full time warehoused 100% Amiga focused company.
They are a huge asset to the amiga world and I encourage everyone to get behind their current and future projects.
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+1.
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I like how all your bashing of the X1000 is keeping this post at the top of the homepage... thus promoting AmigaKit's sale even more. Methinks your plans have backfired, LOL. :roflmao:
Well I certainly was not bashing on the X1000.. I'm sure its a darn good machine, would love to have one.. just the $$, and I understand the cost of very low volume production runs.
Rich
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The gratest amiga ever and a real amiga, not these sams or x1000... is good to know that there are still people who know it =)
no my A1000 is the best then my A1-X1000! so see how silly these discussion are ESPECIALLY in a thread not even remotely related to discussing which Amiga model one thinks is 'the best':whack:
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no my A1000 is the best then my A1-X1000! so see how silly these discussion are ESPECIALLY in a thread not even remotely related to discussing which Amiga model one thinks is 'the best':whack:
Hey! That is silly discussing which model is better than the other on a thread that is not even remotely related to the discussion. Why did you do that?
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The feedback we have had is great :-) it is really good to see users enjoying their AmigaONE X1000 (http://www.amigakit.com/x1000) systems
@gertsy @DDNIUK
Thank you for your kind words.
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I'm also very satisfied with my A1-X1000. I use it more than I used my classic Amigas in the 90s. My opinion is, that the NG Amigas are more interesting as the classic Amigas.
And what is a real Amiga?
An Amiga with a m68k cpu that are also included in Ataris and Macs.
With an HP chip?
An classic Amiga has a lot of standard components that are also included in other computers.
Or is it only the chipset?
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Hey! That is silly discussing which model is better than the other on a thread that is not even remotely related to the discussion. Why did you do that?
yes my point exactly:roflmao:trying to make a point on this is like trying to herd cats :)
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yes my point exactly:roflmao:trying to make a point on this is like trying to herd cats :)
You had a point? (http://forefoot.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/scratch-head01-idea-animated-animation-smiley-emoticon-000414-large.gif)
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And what is a real Amiga?
Simple, it's the machines made by Commodore and Escom. The ones that say 'Amiga' on them. They usually come with OCS, ECS or AGA and a CPU from the 68000 family.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against AOS4 machines.
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Simple, it's the machines made by Commodore and Escom. The ones that say 'Amiga' on them. They usually come with OCS, ECS or AGA and a CPU from the 68000 family.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against AOS4 machines.
No. You are wrong. You are mentioning or defining something based on an outdated hardware that had the company remained active and not bankrupt would be a complete different hardware and you would define it on that hardware.
Since Commodore is finished...Hyperion and Acube and other companies united to continue what Commodore would have continued anyways...migrate from 68k hardware base same hardware base used by Mac mind you...into PPC which again same hardware WAS used by Mac. Bare in mind, had Commodore remained active Amiga would still have died because Commodore was moving from Amiga to PC anyways....
....so it is better that Commodore did die at least AmigaOS remains active had it not died.
That is one to consider. What I would have preferred though that they did like the Mac and skipped PPC and go x86 as Mac have did and still made it a custom hardware that only run OS 4.1. Forget that I want to install OS OS 4.1 beside Windows arguement...my idea that had they skipped PPC and did a custom x86 that cost for manufacturing of expensive CPU which ranges anywhere from 600 to 1000 per CPU would drop the price of the computer from say 3300 to 2300. Bare in mind even modern consoles are going through this route for reason of cost efficiency and easy programming. A CPU IS A CPU....no matter what type of CPU you go...be it AMD, Intel, PPC, 68k, 6502, whatever it is...they all do one and same thing...calculation and execution...it is not like 68k sings a song and AMD dances and Intel feed you....they all do the same thing....calculate...math...etc.
I mean they can still make the motherboard so custom made that it only RUNS OS4.1 if they want to go this far, and they can even install into the motherboard a default kickstart if there are no HD you see the kickstart boot screen and you can run OS 4.1 directly and update kickstart on the HD...they can give you back that feeling you had with classical Amiga if they wanted too. I mean if they saved 1000 dollars on CPU cost by going x86...they would put 300 dollars on that and make the kickstart hardware based as will and installed into the motherboard and can be replaced by the HD kickstart version as patches. No problem.
Bare in mind a $2300 computer is still expensive but more affordable for me and not less painful than say $3300. They could cut on certain hardware features that are not usable or needed to cut down prices even more and can drop it down to $1,500. Now if you tell me this X1000 is being modified to have x86 CPU which cut down price of CPU from 600 to 1000 and we save another 800 dollars on features of motherboards that are not used at all now...but still maintain expandability we have saved $1,800 and the Amiga NG motherboard is 100% customizable that it cannot run windows, DOS, etc even if the CPU is x86 and it is only designed to run OS4.1: $3300-$1800=$1,500 making the price of the machine affordable I can sell my Amiga 4000D in a heart beat for 900 thus the only difference left 600...if I squeezed my Amiga 500 for 100...for 500 bucks difference I can save up in a month and buy me an x1000 now.
Tell me I am dreaming....
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Tell me I am dreaming....
No, you're having a nightmare.
An X86 machine that won't run any OS except AOS4?
That is just weird.
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You are mentioning or defining something based on an outdated hardware
Of course I am, because Amiga computers are outdated computers from the past.
that had the company remained active and not bankrupt would be a complete different hardware
But they did go bankrupt, hence the reason why no Amiga computers were produced after the AGA machines, except perhaps in name only (which doesn't count, of course).
Why this need to slap the Amiga name on EVERYTHING? What's wrong with calling a Sam a Sam? Or an X1000 an X1000? Or a Mac with Morph OS a Mac? What's next? A Peecee with Aros is an Amiga, too? Really, I don't get it.
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No, you're having a nightmare.
An X86 machine that won't run any OS except AOS4?
That is just weird.
Why? PS4 have x86 and it only runs PS 4 OS.
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Of course I am, because Amiga computers are outdated computers from the past.
But they did go bankrupt, hence the reason why no Amiga computers were produced after the AGA machines, except perhaps in name only (which doesn't count, of course).
Why this need to slap the Amiga name on EVERYTHING? What's wrong with calling a Sam a Sam? Or an X1000 an X1000? Or a Mac with Morph OS a Mac? What's next? A Peecee with Aros is an Amiga, too? Really, I don't get it.
Alright, then assume they did not go bankrupt and they did move away from AGA to PPC and it is now called Amiga X1000 instead of say A5000 or A6000, etc. What is wrong with that? Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us? Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion, that is my perspective, that makes me happy and in your opinion I am a moron...will here is what I have to say...keep your opinion to yourself...two thinks come in effect:
1) You will be less stressful to yourself, body and your heart and you will live a healthier life.
2) You would not be targeted under attack or hated by people or people find you annoying.
By the way...what is wrong calling AROS an Amiga again?
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Amiga OS today would be more like MS Windows. Under a big company at least. It might have ended up on x86 (x64) as well.
You have very very small companies pushing it along as Amiga... Two programmers for the OS???! lol
p.s. It's good enough for me though.
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Alright, then assume they did not go bankrupt and they did move away from AGA to PPC
I won't, because it never happened, and because it never happened it's irrelevant.
Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us?
I'm not. Someone asked a question, I answered.
Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion
Exactly. It's an opinion, and opinions aren't always facts.
in your opinion I am a moron
Did I say that? No, I didn't, and I didn't imply it, either.
keep your opinion to yourself
So, basically anyone is allowed to say whatever machine is an Amiga, but when you disagree with that, and want to say that only classics are Amigas you have to keep it to yourself? That's a bit odd, isn't it?
2) You would not be targeted under attack or hated by people or people find you annoying.
Not everyone has to like me ;)
By the way...what is wrong calling AROS an Amiga again?
Because it's software. Amigas are hardware. Furthermore, a peecee running Aros is a peecee. Hardware is what it is; it's not defined by what you run on it. Or does an Amiga become a Mac when you run Shapeshifter on it? Does an Amiga become a peecee when you run PCTask on it? Think about it.
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Don't forget Amithlon. That was another potential direction for Amiga to take.
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I won't, because it never happened, and because it never happened it's irrelevant.
I'm not. Someone asked a question, I answered.
Exactly. It's an opinion, and opinions aren't always facts.
Did I say that? No, I didn't, and I didn't imply it, either.
So, basically anyone is allowed to say whatever machine is an Amiga, but when you disagree with that, and want to say that only classics are Amigas you have to keep it to yourself? That's a bit odd, isn't it?
Not everyone has to like me ;)
Because it's software. Amigas are hardware. Furthermore, a peecee running Aros is a peecee. Hardware is what it is; it's not defined by what you run on it. Or does an Amiga become a Mac when you run Shapeshifter on it? Does an Amiga become a peecee when you run PCTask on it? Think about it.
Then why would you define Ubuntu as Ubuntu regardless of the hardware it is in...but when you define an Amiga you don't define it as a software you define it as a hardware and the hardware it uses is identical to the Mac? Why then can't you define Amiga as Mac instead? After all it is a 68k like Mac and only have AmigaOS installed in it? Sure the hardware is customized it is designed to run just Amiga (chances are Linux too), but it does not change the fact that what they did is the same as MorphOS does with it's hardware. They married the software with the hardware, even though it is a 68k.
If there is any consolidation...mom, my brother and couple of women and men are doing voluntary teaching kids in our country. They are going to take the A500 and use it as an entertainment system for the kids to play with during their lunch break and my A4000D stays with me ;D. I will upload as much as games as possible to the A500 in disk where they can have fun with it.
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Amiga OS today would be more like MS Windows. Under a big company at least. It might have ended up on x86 (x64) as well.
You have very very small companies pushing it along as Amiga... Two programmers for the OS???! lol
p.s. It's good enough for me though.
Wait...is it true? There are only two programmers developing for AmigaOS 4.1? Do they have job position for hire?
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Then why would you define Ubuntu as Ubuntu regardless of the hardware it is in
Because Ubuntu is software. Same for, say, Word Perfect. Word Perfect for the peecee is Word Perfect, just like Word Perfect for the Amiga is Word Perfect. It's simply what the software is called.
but when you define an Amiga you don't define it as a software you define it as a hardware
That's because it is hardware.
and the hardware it uses is identical to the Mac?
The CPU is. The rest of the machines aren't the same, except for some generic components perhaps. Having the same CPU doesn't make two computers the same.
Sure the hardware is customized it is designed to run just Amiga
Amigas are designed to be Amigas. Computers that can run anything that's written for them. Just like peecees are designed to be peecees, Macs to be Macs and Atari STs to be Atari STs. What those machines run is completely irrelevant. An Amiga that runs linux is still an Amiga, just like a peecee that runs linux is still a peecee. The machines don't magically change into a linux.
Hardware does not equal software, and Amigas are hardware, period. I find it truly astounding how definitions have to be bent and twisted to fit whatever anyone wants them to be. Back in the Commodore days Amigas were known as computers with OCS/ECS/AGA+68K. Now Amiga has to mean whatever anyone wants.
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It is what it is, one programmer per thousand users is a very high ratio.
Wait...is it true? There are only two programmers developing for AmigaOS 4.1? Do they have job position for hire?
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Where can I send my resume to apply as a programmer?
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It is just generic hardware with a PowerPC. They don't make custom hardware anymore.
It would be nice to have all the Amiga specific connectors. e.g. you could add some upgrade cards to the sam460 instead of having to buy a whole new motherboard. It's almost not doable however.
Is more Amiga specific hardware required, not generic stuff?
Add dual boot into PowerPC + emulator, or classic only mode where only 68k things run (plus all the extra add ons.)
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No. You are wrong.
Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us? Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion, that is my perspective, that makes me happy and in your opinion I am a moron...will here is what I have to say...keep your opinion to yourself...
It sounds like you want to have your opinion but you don't want Thorham to have his. Although Thorham may have been interrupting others practicing their freedom of opinion that AmigaOS 4.x and the X1000 is Amiga, I don't think he was trying to be obnoxious or trolling. Perhaps it was an emotional response. This is generally more of a classic forum and some may think that the AmigaOS 4.x guys have come advertising for a few more willing converts. This thread is sneaky (and smart) advertising but does seem to play by the rules.
IMO, I don't think it matters which route C= would have chosen for Amiga. C= went bankrupt with the decisions they made then. It's more important to use the tools and resources available today to make strategic decisions on what the Amiga should do. PPC certainly looked like it had a future at the time it was chosen. It's also big endian which makes it much easier than x86 hardware to convert the Amiga to. I wouldn't want to go the x86 route even today. The 68k is easier and more fun to program and the x86 has flaws (x86 started with 8 bit registers where the 68000 had 32 bit registers). ARM is a preferable Amiga target to me in a lot of ways but the new ARMv8 ISA is similar to PPC (although they didn't go crazy with the instruction names using acronyms and they have more CISC like addressing modes). ARM is bi-endian but more efficient with little endian so PPC is a little better suited for the Amiga in that regard. The big advantage of ARM is that they license the CPU to go into proprietary SoC designs that are fully controlled by the developers. I think this is the future of computing and the best route for the Amiga. PPC is supposedly being licensed in a similar way now also. I don't think Hyperion or A-Eon have the resources or sell enough quantity to make their own PPC SoC though. I believe an enhanced 68k SoC with Amiga custom chips would sell better. Much of the work is already done today while more is being worked on in fpga. The Amiga chipset can be many times faster than AGA and processor speeds can be in excess of the 68060 inside a reasonably priced fpga today. While the performance may be modest at first, the price to performance will be reasonable and improve over time. I would rather bet on the success of fpga technology than PPC technology and Freescale with their C= like financials. Freescale was on the verge of bankruptcy after the 2008/2009 recession with their debt trading for pennies on the dollar in expectation of a bankruptcy.
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The X1000 to me is a step in the right direction. It was marred a little on release with missing drivers etc but to me it was a great achievement.
Is it an Amiga, yes I'd like to say it is. AmigaOS 4.1 looks great. Would I buy one, would like to say yes but it's out of my price bracket.
Would be tempted in selling my two classic Amiga's if it meant being able to purchase one, but even then I'd fall short.
But it would be an option I'd look at.
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. What I would have preferred though that they did like the Mac and skipped PPC and go x86 as Mac have did and still made it a custom hardware that only run OS 4.1. Forget that I want to install OS OS 4.1 beside Windows arguement...my idea that had they skipped PPC and did a custom x86 that cost for manufacturing of expensive CPU which ranges anywhere from 600 to 1000 per CPU would drop the price of the computer from say 3300 to 2300. Bare in mind even modern consoles are going through this route for reason of cost efficiency and easy programming. A CPU IS A CPU....no matter what type of CPU you go...be it AMD, Intel, PPC, 68k, 6502, whatever it is...they all do one and same thing...calculation and execution
That's incorrect, though. CPUs are all different, that's why they went PPC in the first place (same with Apple). Apple went x86 after 10 years or whatever as PPC because they had no choice, they were unable to keep up with PCs' power and it was losing them marketability. Unlike AmigaOS, MacOS had the resources available to do a complete architecture change. We didn't, and still don't. They also were able to convince their fans that BSD with a shiny surface was the Next Big Thing because it was called MacOS X.
Different CPUs have different strengths and weaknesses. Look at Itanium several years ago with x86 - it was very fast in certain areas and completely useless everywhere else. Power chips from IBM are similar, but better - but you wouldn't put one in a console, for instance, because they're designed for servers.
The big reason for not going x86 was endianness. AmigaOS 4 uses AmigaOS 3 as a basis to allow backward compatibility. With x86 this couldn't happen, as AmigaOS 3 binaries would just crash because of the different endianness. To go x86 required a completely clean slate (such as what AROS had) which is why AROS relies on JanusUAE for its legacy compatibility, and that wasn't the objective, which was to update AmigaOS, not replace it.
This is why we use PPC and we can't go x86 - to do so means writing off the entire basis of what AmigaOS 4 is: an update of AmigaOS.
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The X1000 to me is a step in the right direction. It was marred a little on release with missing drivers etc but to me it was a great achievement.
Is it an Amiga, yes I'd like to say it is. AmigaOS 4.1 looks great. Would I buy one, would like to say yes but it's out of my price bracket.
Would be tempted in selling my two classic Amiga's if it meant being able to purchase one, but even then I'd fall short.
But it would be an option I'd look at.
That is the problem I am getting at...we will always fall short to getting the X1000 due to it's price. So who would own it? The more financially set people...so this machine remains as an exotic. But it get worse....to me even if somehow after long struggle I managed to scrab the amount needed and sacrifice soo much classic Amiga to get it...when I have 3.3k it becomes SOOOOOOO painful and very hard to justify spending 3.3k to get it.
That is the problem. BUT IT IS SO HARD even if I am rich or make 100k year...still the very idea to spending 3.3k on a computer is PAINFULLY hard to justify purchase...let alone a computer with an OS4.1 that do not have the larger software library and up to date powerful emulators that Windows bring.
It is hard...hard....hard.....hard. Yet I painfully desire to try the OS4.1 for ones...just to feel it...but I can't. You see the problem?
Is it only X1000 that I find hard spending 3.3k? No. I find spending 3.3k on any computer too much to bare...even if it is a super computer x86...spending 3.3k is hard. Even if it is the best Mac computer out in the world with video card that can't be beat with 60 GB of RAM and 20 TB HD and 40 Ghz 30 core CPU....the idea of spending 3.3k on a computer is....not feasible with me.
Can I spend 80 bucks on a used laptop like ibook g4? Sure. Can I spend 220 dollars on a motherboard with CPU in it, built in video, sound, wifi, etc? Sure.
Can I spend 700 dollars on a full set modern up to date computer? Yes.
But spending 3.3k on a computer? No.
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Just one small point: as stated before in this thread price is not $3.3k, customers outside EU do not pay 20% VAT.
Product Link US:
http://www.amigakit.us/product_info.php?products_id=1071
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So it's hard and not justifiable for many, yourself included, but you just want to try it?
Find a friend with one or live with your choice.
It's human nature to want for something you can't obtain.
I remember having the same feelings when the Amiga came out. I waited almost 4 years before I got a vanilla 2000.
"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes you just might find, you get what you didn't really want anyway". :)
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Doesn't 4.x use a UAE implementation to run classic apps just like AROS? Endianess has nothing to do with an operating system.
Power architecture was losing the race a more than a decade and a half ago, it was only a matter of time before the game consoles abandoned it as well. Apple planned ahead, endianess was built on a few core routines and the rest of OS X was blind to it. Endianess is a tempest in a teacup.
That's incorrect, though. CPUs are all different, that's why they went PPC in the first place (same with Apple). Apple went x86 after 10 years or whatever as PPC because they had no choice, they were unable to keep up with PCs' power and it was losing them marketability. Unlike AmigaOS, MacOS had the resources available to do a complete architecture change. We didn't, and still don't. They also were able to convince their fans that BSD with a shiny surface was the Next Big Thing because it was called MacOS X.
Different CPUs have different strengths and weaknesses. Look at Itanium several years ago with x86 - it was very fast in certain areas and completely useless everywhere else. Power chips from IBM are similar, but better - but you wouldn't put one in a console, for instance, because they're designed for servers.
The big reason for not going x86 was endianness. AmigaOS 4 uses AmigaOS 3 as a basis to allow backward compatibility. With x86 this couldn't happen, as AmigaOS 3 binaries would just crash because of the different endianness. To go x86 required a completely clean slate (such as what AROS had) which is why AROS relies on JanusUAE for its legacy compatibility, and that wasn't the objective, which was to update AmigaOS, not replace it.
This is why we use PPC and we can't go x86 - to do so means writing off the entire basis of what AmigaOS 4 is: an update of AmigaOS.
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Just one small point: as stated before in this thread price is not $3.3k, customers outside EU do not pay 20% VAT.
Product Link US:
http://www.amigakit.us/product_info.php?products_id=1071
Canadian it is 3.3k :)
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Doesn't 4.x use a UAE implementation to run classic apps just like AROS? Endianess has nothing to do with an operating system.
Power architecture was losing the race a more than a decade and a half ago, it was only a matter of time before the game consoles abandoned it as well. Apple planned ahead, endianess was built on a few core routines and the rest of OS X was blind to it. Endianess is a tempest in a teacup.
I agree with you persia...I thought 4.x is not backward compatible at all and that it relies on UAE just AROS does. Am I confused?
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I agree with you persia...I thought 4.x is not backward compatible at all and that it relies on UAE just AROS does. Am I confused?
You should be confused because there are more then one way to run 680x0 program on AmigaOS4.1
http://www.amiga.hu/amigos/rachy/petunia.html
AmigaOS4.1 features some comparability whit legacy.
1St is Petunia, its integrated JIT compiler that translates 680x0 opcodes into PowerPC opcodes, Petunia does not emulate hardware all it does is enable system friendly programs to run in AmigaOS4.1.
Here is database of what software that works and what not.
http://www.intuitionbase.com/ossoftware.php
Petunia is nice if you have library that is not AmigaOS4.1 native or some program that no one has the source code too, if the program work and is system friendly it will run many times faster whit petunia then EUAE, EUAE is bloat need a lot of CPU power, plus any program running under AmigaOS4.1 has has full access to native PowerPC libraries and other system resources, and PowerPC native programs can also use 680x0 libraries and devices.
2en method program can be run is new trow a program called RunInUAE, like name hints when the "RunInUAE" program is running any 680x0 program you start will be started in E-UAE instead. if "RunInUAE" is not started it will handled by Petunia.
You don't need RunInUAE, you can setup your own custom EUAE if you like.
So to summarize:
1st emulation type, enables any old programs to run as any other program, as first class citizen in the city of AmigaOS4.1.
2en emulation type, is useful when 1st emulation type does not hold, when a program or game depends on the hardware, maybe its boot sector type of game, or some thing.
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Canadian it is 3.3k :)
If you wonder if its worth it or not you should spend some time investigating what ever information you can.
Or maybe you should try a sam440 they are the lest expensive AmigaOS4.1 computer you can get, If you don't like you just sell it, for the same price.
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I don't think he was trying to be obnoxious or trolling.
No, I wasn't. Someone asked a question ('What is Amiga?') and I answered.
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What's wrong with calling...a Mac with Morph OS a Mac?...Really, I don't get it.
Since when has any MorphOS user done anything else?
We don't have the hangup you legacy users or the OS4 users have about names.
We're more interested in what our environment morphs into, what happens after.
Get it?
Of course my computer is a Mac.
It runs circles around my Amiga.
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I agree with you persia...I thought 4.x is not backward compatible at all and that it relies on UAE just AROS does. Am I confused?
I do wonder how much of this forum's hatred of AmigaOS 4 is based on misinformation (no offence intended, please don't take any!).
AmigaOS 4 has an excellent level of compatibility with OS3 apps and always has had. Some really badly written programs don't work, of course, as AmigaOS 4 is deliberately less tolerant of bad coding that just happens to work (stuff like writing to bad pointers), but I regularly run OS 3 programs on my OS4 machines with no problem at all - just as if they were OS 4 native.
The JIT 68K emulator, called Petunia, is incredibly fast and very compatible, but if you need to disable it for some reason it's easy to disable by blacklisting a program, so it runs using the normal interpreted emulator. You can, for instance, run PC-Task on an AmigaOS 4 machine. I've done that before. :)
AmigaOS 4 does also come bundled with RunInUAE which means right out of the box you can double click on an ADF and have the game come up (it even comes with the Kickstart ROMS legally supplied). If you run a 68K program with RunInUAE running, you can choose to run in UAE or in the AmigaOS 4 environment.
Sorry - that post sounds like an advert :) There is a heck of a lot of work gone into the backward compatibility, though, and they deserve praise. If they'd gone x86, we'd all be forced to use UAE for OS3 apps, and that can be a right pain, especially if you need to do it in a script...
Edit: Just as an example, when I wanted to add IPF image support to my Catweasel disk image writer, I didn't have access to the IPF library source. I just made an interface file so that AmigaOS 4 could use it natively, and my PPC AOS4 program could then use the 68K OS3 library just as if it were an OS4 library.
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Of course my computer is a Mac.
It runs circles around my Amiga.
And my peecee runs circles around my Amiga. Point?
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I just checked the compatibility list. It isn't that many programs. 16 pages with some of them only partial. You will be switching back to E-uae. Which makes the system identical to AROS.
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I just checked the compatibility list. It isn't that many programs. 16 pages with some of them only partial. You will be switching back to E-uae. Which makes the system identical to AROS.
heh. in truth i've been trying to get folks to help us update the list for a long time. there's tons missing. basically so long as the tool/library/whatever doesn't touch agnus or paula or lisa or any of the custom chips, chances are it will work fine. you can pop in a 68K library and it runs just like its native.
the experience is similar to MOS, if you've used it. UAE is only for hardware-banging games. everything else is taken care of under the covers. about 50% of the software i use daily is AOS4-only and the other half is from the 68K days. no UAE needed. :)
-- eliyahu
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I don't think they went through the entire aminet to make that list!
That list mostly says what apps do NOT work. not what does.
This is precisely the kind of misinformation I'm talking about, giving people a completely inaccurate view of what OS 4 is actually like.
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That is AWESOME. I didn't realize OS4 was that compatible. That's a lot of hard work, good job guys! :pint:
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That is AWESOME. I didn't realize OS4 was that compatible. That's a lot of hard work, good job guys! :pint:
OK! I want to own SAM 440 not 460...just 440..and I am willing to cough up the dough to get it. The problem I have...where can I find it? I find no store that sells it and I want it to be affordable.
Any advice?
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OK! I want to own SAM 440 not 460...just 440..and I am willing to cough up the dough to get it. The problem I have...where can I find it? I find no store that sells it and I want it to be affordable.
Any advice?
acube themselves use to have a few for sale, but these days i'd look on amibay and the AWN classifieds.
before you pull the trigger, though, if you have any 68K software you're worried about being compatible, ask here or on the other forums where NG users hang out. for example some things require a little massaging, so to speak. like creating custom screens for tools that are pre-RTG or using maestrix to get octamed soundstudio working, etc.
-- eliyahu
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Exactly. OS4 is not as compatible with OS3 as OS3 is - obviously :) If you rely on something that doesn't exist as an OS4 program, then ask an OS4 user if it works (but make sure the person answering your question has actually tried it!).
If you just want a neat little machine, though, the Sam440 is an excellent starting point... just remember its limitations and don't expect to run HD video on it - you need the much more expensive X1000 for that.
Personally, I find my Sam fits perfectly next to my A4000 - neither will replace the other, they complement each other very nicely.
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OK....guys....I am doing it. I am following through and attempting to order the SAM440 667 Mhz with 512 MB of RAM from the retail store. I am asking questions about price difference between a complete system or just the motherboard and getting the stuff part by part. I want to see how it works out for me.
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They should have written OS4 for old macs and that would be the end of the argument.
If you can't afford a new Amiga: $200 for OS. $100 for an old Mac. Everyone is equal.
I suppose there is a reason they didn't, but they are not letting on.
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OK....guys....I am doing it. I am following through and attempting to order the SAM440 667 Mhz with 512 MB of RAM from the retail store. I am asking questions about price difference between a complete system or just the motherboard and getting the stuff part by part. I want to see how it works out for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam440ep
Just get a complete system, less hazel.
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The SAM440ep is a nice little system to start out on and get a taste of AmigaOS.
AmigaOS will be moving in new direction from this year onwards in terms of the complexity of the software running on it: newer software will demand more memory, CPU power and faster graphics cards.
However as mentioned here by other posters, the difference between the SAM and the AmigaONE X1000 is vast, as you would expect, being opposite ends of the range. The 440ep has a maximum MIPS of 1334 and the X1000's Pa6t CPU delivers 8,800 MIPS. Memory is limited on the 440ep to 512mb as opposed to 8gb on the X1000. There is 1 PCI slot of the 440ep whereas the x1000 has 2x PCIe x16 slots, 2x PCIe x1 slots and 2x PCI slots.
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Outside of things like HD video, for the common man, a low end SAM system is more than enough.
You find me someone rendering production grade stock on an OS4 machine and I'll eat my hat. You find me someone doing post production on any NG Amiga system, I'll mail you $100.
You won't. The problem with them all is the software is not there, and that doesn't matter a lick if you're using a SAM or the X1000. Sorry, AmigaKit - it's a great machine, but it still suffers the root problems of the OS and the apps available. Install 3 V12's in a FIAT, it's still a FIAT. Know what you're in for before you buy. Me, I've tried using my OS4 (and MOS) machines for sole daily usage. I end up using my tablet more. Your usage case may vary.
You buy an X1000 and you'll have your web browsing experience come to a crashing end every time you submit changes in a GDoc, just like it does on my SAM. Consider it a built in feature of the leading browser.
I love my SAM, but let's not delude ourselves that additional horsepower and a $3000 pricetag for a motherboard or machine like the X1000, that it runs a whole new class of software. It doesn't. Sorry.
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@Duce
Try using the new OWB 1.23 web browser for a period of time, 512MB will not last you very long unfortunately. If you are getting crashes on the SAM440ep, then perhaps you are running out of memory? We have both machines in our office and performed many comparison tests: the speed difference between browsing is very noticeable due to the large horse power of the PA6T over the lowly 440ep.
A good test is the MACE game, the game can be played in 1080p on the X1000 without issues, on the 440ep it cannot, which is of course, to be expected.
Then we have AMIStore project which will soon be bringing bigger and better software releases to AmigaOS, These new titles will need more memory and more CPU power and better graphics cards.
I respect your viewpoint because you are not privy to the software developments that are happening right now.
Finally, the lack of PCI-e slots on the SAM range causes problems for the future if you want to expand. At the moment, A-EON is sponsoring development of new PCI-e drivers.
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If OS4 was available for 2nd hand Macs, you would fill up all those remaining price brackets.
Price comes up as an issue a lot. For $300 I would get an OS4 machine tomorrow.
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Not running out of memory - the browser crashes 100% of the time when you try and do even the most miniscule of modern tasks on it, for example the saving in some of the Google cloud apps. It's so predictable you could set your watch by it, and every time I've tried using my OS4 machine as a sole daily driver I'm always left reaching for a $90 Android tablet to do the most simple of things. I mean, my many years old Galaxy S2 that I use as a MP3 player cuts the mustard, but a $3000 OS4 box would just crash.
Sorry, just gotta call it like it is. I'd have the same problems with a more beefy machine, and I have tested a 460 machine putting it through the same paces and it still barfs. Unless the highest of the high end software can make up for SW shortcomings, well...
This being said, my MOS box also gives some pretty consistent browser barfs in the same day to day tasks.
Sorry, you'll have to forgive me - but the rhetoric about how a super high end machine will do so much more than a lower end one doesn't hold true when the OS and SW base is the same just doesn't ring true, and it kept me from buying a 460 recently.
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@AmigaKit
Nice try but I am not going to spend 3.3k dollars on a computer...mkaaaaayy!
@ElPolloDiabl (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=6085)
Of course it all comes back to price...we are the one who spending it aint we? :) Naturally, if AmigaOS 4.1 was like MorphOS and was available in Mac hardware and even specific one I would spend 300 bucks easy on it. So it all comes back to price.
@All
I like SAM440ep it is cute :) I can get all my OS 4.1 experience I ever wanted or needed and so far with the current features and software library availability I would say SAM440ep will give me all the experience I need with OS 4.1 had I spend 3.3k on X1000. I have PS3, PS4 and PC to watch HD movies so I have no worry of getting this experience on OS4.1 that badly to make me spend 3.3k for it.
Besides from what I checked OS4.1 is not really exploiting or taking full advantage of the X1000 hardware...it does not even support dual processor...so I do not see the reason to spend 3.3k on a machine and being a monster machine if it is not going to be taking 1000000% advantage of the features of the machine. I think SAM440ep is all I need right now..it is small...compact...more powerful than an PPC for classical Amiga anyways...cheap...for Amiga hardware and affordable.
I think X1000 is the mothership Amiga and should any future Amiga hardware be developed should be always coming close to the intermediate between SAM series and X1000 and always attempt to make it an affordable price range. There should be no need to make another mothership Amiga at all...X1000 should be the only and finalized Amiga hardware that is powerful and every new line should be weaker than X1000 but more powerful than SAM and more affordable.
The more you guys do this...the more customers can come in and purchase this....and repeat cycle until......prices of Amiga hardware becomes cheaper and cheaper and if you have the money and want to go big go X1000.
Another thing...I think we need more software library to make using Amiga hardware even more so worth it. List out what we are missing that we use daily on other PCs and make a native version for Amiga system.
For example, we have skype in Windows, Linux, Mac. Naturally we cannot have skype on Amiga since Microsoft owns the thing...but what we can do...is have our own version and native one for Amiga that give us everything that skype does on Windows, Linux, Mac.
Ooh we need a very good VMPlayer for Amiga system that allows us to run other OSes with fast frame rate...I cannot remember what else to list. But we should do is list software library use daily and need on this system and make our own version not necessary a port but our own native version and develop it...
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I think X1000 is the mothership Amiga and should any future Amiga hardware be developed should be always coming close to the intermediate between SAM series and X1000 and always attempt to make it an affordable price range. There should be no need to make another mothership Amiga at all...X1000 should be the only and finalized Amiga hardware that is powerful and every new line should be weaker than X1000 but more powerful than SAM and more affordable.
Question is this, until OS4 is running SMP out in the wild, why bother with any multi-core CPU computer unless you are directly developing OS4 SMP for it?
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Question is this, until OS4 is running SMP out in the wild, why bother with any multi-core CPU computer unless you are directly developing OS4 SMP for it?
That is an excellent question. That is why I am saying X1000 is a mothership Amiga with a software and OS not taking full exploit of the hardware's capabilities. Consumers are spending fortunes on features they cannot access or have.
There is no way you can convince me I should get an X1000, right now. That is why I am venturing in SAM440ep territory. Understandably they maybe handful of games will run slow or difficult in a low end spec with 512 MB of RAM but I do not see any game worth spending 3.3k on it either. Of course I do have purchase MorphOS first from the list of things to do :). I did do an order and I did receive an email, but I have not paid it yet. By the end of the month I will buy MorphOS for my iBook G4 :). I enjoy browsing the internet in it...by the way...off topic...what is the latest version of odyssey for MorphOS?
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I wouldn't recommend an X1000 either for a first OS4 machine. As there's no easy way of testing it for free, the Sam 440 is an excellent way of seeing if you like it.
Question is this, until OS4 is running SMP out in the wild, why bother with any multi-core CPU computer unless you are directly developing OS4 SMP for it?
Because it's still the fastest machine out there by some margin, even in single-core mode. It's a little annoying that the X1000 has another core unused for now, but it's hardly a show-stopper.
I believe the X1000 as much as anything else was a platform for the OS devs to make SMP on - after all, it'd be rather difficult to make OS4 support two cores without any multi-core hardware to run it on!
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i dont see why would anyone need an os4 system for the few games there is exclusively for it. almost everything ive heard of was either ported from or in few cases to other platform, and it will likely run better there. lets face it, buying os4 hardware is a form of charity. to be honest i dont see much reason to buy ppc hardware today, neither obscure nor popular, neither expensive nor cheap, neither old nor new, and therefore i cant seriously think even about morphos. still if i was forced to choose i wouldnt base it on a label, even if there actually was a proper label.
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i dont see why would anyone need an os4 system for the few games there is exclusively for it. almost everything ive heard of was either ported from or in few cases to other platform, and it will likely run better there. lets face it, buying os4 hardware is a form of charity. to be honest i dont see much reason to buy ppc hardware today, neither obscure nor popular, neither expensive nor cheap, neither old nor new, and therefore i cant seriously think even about morphos. still if i was forced to choose i wouldnt base it on a label, even if there actually was a proper label.
Reasons for AOS4 system;
-Prefered OS for the person using it. For some it might be all they actually need to get by.
-Nostalgica.
-Enjoy tinkering with different OS's
Charity? I have bought games by OS4 developers that also released Wintel versions.
I actually enjoyed their games, so I wouldnt call it charity.
People spend xxxx dollars (or whatever currency) on hobbies like;
-Classic hardware
-Old cars
-stamps
etc etc etc
As long as its fun for a person, the practicality vs value ratio doesnt HAVE to "make sense".
Its a subjective quality.
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wawrzon, I suppose no one really NEEDS a new AmigaOS computer if you get down to it. Except... I need one with every fiber of my Amigamaniac being. :-)
OK, want is the more proper word than need. I want it and have it, and I use it every day to do all sorts of fun things. I enjoy the operating system and appreciate that is has been updated and is being improved without losing its identity. I recognize it as a continuation of the same OS I loved from the Commodore days. I love that it can run a mix of old and new software. I don't play games very much at all -- never did even when I got my first Amiga computer in 1987. But there are new and old games. I spend a lot of my X1000 time using IRC clients, email and our growing list of Web browsers. (The Odyssey port from MorphOS is outstanding.) It's great using and seeing new original AmigaOS applications like Andy Broad's SketchBlock mature, and Lyle Hazelwood's Score is going to be a lot of fun. The Blender port can do a lot of stuff. But what made me jump onto the bandwagon for the newest AmigaOS versions is seeing Elwood's YouTube videos showing how well version 4.1 can run a lot of the great old Amiga creative applications -- specifically LightWave, ImageFX and TVPaint. His videos show these programs running very well on a Sam440ep @ only 667mhz! I have that same machine (times two) and also an X1000. Since then, I have also learned firsthand that I can also still use Photogenics, Wildfire, Imagine, VistaPro, Perfect Paint, Personal Paint, Milky Tracker, HD-Rec, Audio Evolution, etc. etc. etc. as well as mess about with handy new tools such as VideoClipper, ffmpeg, etc. Hollywood with Hollywood Designer is AWESOME.
So in short, there are lots of things to do with a fast, capable computer that can run AmigaOS in its current version. I haven't run out of ways to have fun with mine yet.... and it will get better as software development pushes forward.
Yes, it's expensive. No, you might not think it's worth it for you. That's OK. I see people spending money all the time on stuff I wouldn't buy.
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wawrzon, I suppose no one really NEEDS a new AmigaOS computer if you get down to it. Except... I need one with every fiber of my Amigamaniac being. :-)
OK, want is the more proper word than need. I want it and have it, and I use it every day to do all sorts of fun things. I enjoy the operating system and appreciate that is has been updated and is being improved without losing its identity. I recognize it as a continuation of the same OS I loved from the Commodore days. I love that it can run a mix of old and new software. I don't play games very much at all -- never did even when I got my first Amiga computer in 1987. But there are new and old games. I spend a lot of my X1000 time using IRC clients, email and our growing list of Web browsers. (The Odyssey port from MorphOS is outstanding.) It's great using and seeing new original AmigaOS applications like Andy Broad's SketchBlock mature, and Lyle Hazelwood's Score is going to be a lot of fun. The Blender port can do a lot of stuff. But what made me jump onto the bandwagon for the newest AmigaOS versions is seeing Elwood's YouTube videos showing how well version 4.1 can run a lot of the great old Amiga creative applications -- specifically LightWave, ImageFX and TVPaint. His videos show these programs running very well on a Sam440ep @ only 667mhz! I have that same machine (times two) and also an X1000. Since then, I have also learned firsthand that I can also still use Photogenics, Wildfire, Imagine, VistaPro, Perfect Paint, Personal Paint, Milky Tracker, HD-Rec, Audio Evolution, etc. etc. etc. as well as mess about with handy new tools such as VideoClipper, ffmpeg, etc. Hollywood with Hollywood Designer is AWESOME.
So in short, there are lots of things to do with a fast, capable computer that can run AmigaOS in its current version. I haven't run out of ways to have fun with mine yet.... and it will get better as software development pushes forward.
Yes, it's expensive. No, you might not think it's worth it for you. That's OK. I see people spending money all the time on stuff I wouldn't buy.
How about Cinema4D, Monzoom Pro or Reflections? :)
http://www.aros-platform.de/html/raytracing.html
Most software you mention is 68k and also runs on Aros 68k (as example). No real reason to spend so much money. But I accept that there are different views (if logical or more emotional/nostalgic).
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OlafS3, fair point and as I said there is no "need" to do any of this stuff. At this time when it comes to Amiga stuff, there is only doing what brings enjoyment.
I do have Cinema4D working very well on my X1000 and have a line on an old boxed copy with manual that will help me better learn how to use it. Fun stuff. I'll have to check out Monzoom Pro and Reflections ... no experience with those yet.
I have MorphOS and AROS installs here but prefer AmigaOS to them greatly. If I couldn't or didn't want to pay the price, I'm certain I could live with the alternatives or might go with emulation just for the classic software. But I do like the mix of new and old, and AmigaOS seems to be where that is happening -- at least it's where it all gels with me. I seriously am not trying to knock anybody here.
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Alright, then assume they did not go bankrupt and they did move away from AGA to PPC and it is now called Amiga X1000 instead of say A5000 or A6000, etc. What is wrong with that? Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us? Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion, that is my perspective, that makes me happy and in your opinion I am a moron...will here is what I have to say...keep your opinion to yourself...two thinks come in effect:
1) You will be less stressful to yourself, body and your heart and you will live a healthier life.
2) You would not be targeted under attack or hated by people or people find you annoying.
By the way...what is wrong calling AROS an Amiga again?
Going very OT but Commodore were planning the AAA chipset and Hombre when they went under, also they were not moving to PPC but to a PA-RISC CPU PA-7150
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/hombre.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hombre_chipset
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Reasons for AOS4 system;
-Prefered OS for the person using it. For some it might be all they actually need to get by.
-Nostalgica.
-Enjoy tinkering with different OS's
Charity? I have bought games by OS4 developers that also released Wintel versions.
I actually enjoyed their games, so I wouldnt call it charity.
People spend xxxx dollars (or whatever currency) on hobbies like;
-Classic hardware
-Old cars
-stamps
etc etc etc
As long as its fun for a person, the practicality vs value ratio doesnt HAVE to "make sense".
Its a subjective quality.
no it doesnt need to make sense for anyone in private, but communicating it on a discussion forum one needs to align to some common sense, otherwise there is no need for any communication if one assumes to be a monade. personally ive spent my money on amiga as long as it was fun and useful to me, and i d still spend some limited amounts if it convinced me, still i dont get it why one would need to invest vast amounts into some amiga offshot that given the past experience is doomed to fail in every considerable aspect.
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Yes, common sense doesn't play into a lot of what we do for hobbies. I spend thousands of dollars on Amateur Radio stuff when I could just use my iPhone to talk to people. If someone has 1800 quid and they want to spend it on the x1000, who am I to say it's wrong?
The problem is that the number of people who see 1800 quid as ok is extremely small and the community continues to shrink...
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There were two subjects being covered:
What would Amiga be now? and Is it worth buying an X1000?
At $3000 it is too steep for me. Part of that high price is because we don't have 2nd hand market where you can buy old systems for $100.
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Yes, common sense doesn't play into a lot of what we do for hobbies. I spend thousands of dollars on Amateur Radio stuff when I could just use my iPhone to talk to people. If someone has 1800 quid and they want to spend it on the x1000, who am I to say it's wrong?
I think that comparison makes no sense because Amiga hobbies are not expensive. You can make it expensive, i.e. destroy fully expanded Amiga 4000 every second month and go shopping for another.
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For some reason it feels like we have discussed this before :)
Some people enjoy using AOS4 and Aeon/Amigakit is giving them ANOTHER option to run said OS.
Good for them.
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I think that comparison makes no sense because Amiga hobbies are not expensive. You can make it expensive, i.e. destroy fully expanded Amiga 4000 every second month and go shopping for another.
Well whit most active topic on Amiga.org for days is about who to go Linux, I don't see the problem here, it this not a Amiga/AmigaOS site?
Yes there more program application on Linux and windows and MacOS, as for MorphOS and AROS, they are different, people try them out if they like to..
I don't get way you think you have the right tell people what they should think or do, it looks so horribly despert to tell you what I think..
And as for X1000 cpu power, yes it does come handy when playing 720p or even 1080p video whit hardware accelerated video, and it also make the user experience better.
Oh yes you can do the same on Linux, Windows or MacOS, what ever but if you like AmigaOS, way not. If you don't, then don't buy it, its that simple.
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@LiveForIt
I never said so, I just said that Amiga hobby does not require big investments. You can make it expensive if you want to but it is not requirement.
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@LiveForIt
I never said so, I just said that Amiga hobby does not require big investments. You can make it expensive if you want to but it is not requirement.
Actually amiga hobby in fact isnt that expensive, even 060 boards are within limits imho. Its usually os4 that is an expensive hobby by definition, beginning with amiga ppc accelerators that were already completely overpriced as new, apparently being a trend setter for those who claim the heritage.
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You can get a Sam440ep board for less than a 68060 accelerator, and a heck of a lot less than a CS-PPC (which is not primarily an OS4 board)...
Like any other hobby, Amiga can be expensive but only if you choose it to be. If you want to get by on a shoestring budget, you can do so - and you can do that with OS4 just as with OS3... in the same way as you can use a 1200 with an 030 and have a good OS3 experience, so you can have a Sam440 and have a good OS4 experience - and neither is really expensive.
However, if you want a PCI-equipped PPC/68060 A4000 you won't get much different in price from an X1000.
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However, if you want a PCI-equipped PPC/68060 A4000 you won't get much different in price from an X1000.
Those prices are due to speculators, you cant make a comparision between real amigas with this ppc machines running an amiga-like OS (sam, x1000..)
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An "amiga-like OS"? Heh. There it is then. I recognize and accept that AmigaOS is AmigaOS in more than its name but fundamentally in what it is and how it works.
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I just checked out some youtube videos of Amiga OS4. It's nice and there was no lag. Kept all of the original OS3 features.
I might make all future models mini-itx though. Cheaper to post and people prefer the smaller size nowadays.