Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Kernel on March 13, 2014, 08:56:28 PM
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I'm curious if anyone knows of any FAQ's, or has any direct feedback, on the various incarnations of OS 4.x Amiga's that have come across to date. I may be in the market for a used one or even an X-#### model and would like to know what I'm getting into ahead of time if possible.
For example, I seem to recall one motherboard has an audio issue due to a missing capacitor or resistor?
I'm particularly interested in info on the Sam440/460 models as I've seen them advertised more than others.
Thanks!
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I'm curious if anyone knows of any FAQ's, or has any direct feedback, on the various incarnations of OS 4.x Amiga's that have come across to date. I may be in the market for a used one or even an X-#### model and would like to know what I'm getting into ahead of time if possible.
For example, I seem to recall one motherboard has an audio issue due to a missing capacitor or resistor?
I'm particularly interested in info on the Sam440/460 models as I've seen them advertised more than others.
Thanks!
I used to have a sam440ep and I really miss it so wish that I never sold now :(
OS 4 is fantastic loved every bit of it, if commodore didn't go down the drain I think they would have done a system very similar.
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I'm getting all the bits for my x1000 tomorrow :) I would recommend a second hand Sam 440 first, though, as they're cheap and give a good idea of the OS. They're plenty fast enough for most uses, but too slow for hi-def video and the browsers are a bit sluggish... but if you find you like it you can then sell that without any loss, probably, and go up to the next level like a 460, or even an x1000 which is very expensive but very nice! And if you don't like it, you can still sell it and not lose anything.
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I'm getting all the bits for my x1000 tomorrow :) I would recommend a second hand Sam 440 first, though, as they're cheap and give a good idea of the OS. They're plenty fast enough for most uses, but too slow for hi-def video and the browsers are a bit sluggish... but if you find you like it you can then sell that without any loss, probably, and go up to the next level like a 460, or even an x1000 which is very expensive but very nice! And if you don't like it, you can still sell it and not lose anything.
I have Sam440 Flex, wich I can recomend. It is well supported machine, it has a working 3D drivers, all mobo devices has a working drivers, etc.
800mhz model works OK with web browsing and NTCS/PAL quality videos are played just fine.
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I'm getting all the bits for my x1000 tomorrow :).
Yeah... if I could talk the wife into spending 3K right now it would be a done deal, but sadly...
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@Kernel
That's why the Sam range is there.... :)
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For example, I seem to recall one motherboard has an audio issue due to a missing capacitor or resistor?
I'm particularly interested in info on the Sam440/460 models as I've seen them advertised more than others.
Thanks!
There is no defenete winner.
Pegasos 2 - Fast, cheap, avail only used, hard to get OS4 copy, can run MorphOS too
SAM 440 - Cheapest and best supported but limited CPU, no probs with sound or 3D
SAM 460 - Limited expandability, much faster then SAM 440, but its PCIE cards have only 2D
X1000 - Most expensive big box, fast and expandable, but its PCIE cards have only 2D and has to use Linux to be fully used
X5000 -Beats main disadvantage of X1000 and that is relatively slow CPU, but is in beta testing. Worth of waiting.
Main point is we need OS 4.2 to get all modern features of last 3.
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Yeah... if I could talk the wife into spending 3K right now it would be a done deal, but sadly...
Then try getting Peg2 used with OS4 and MorphOS if not possible then go for SAM440. It will not destroy your budget.
I do use both SAM460 and X1000, its nice to have em, but man, they are not fully used by OS, starting with more modern gfx cards that work 2D only and SAM 460 has many pecularities SAM 440 doesnt have. Some days I wish I had Peg 2 or SAM 440.:rtfm:
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I can also recommend getting a used SAM440. Amiga OS responsive nature makes it feel like you are using a very fast computer
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I too recommend the Sam440-flex with Radeon 9250 as your first OS4 machine :P
It's pretty cheap, it's very well supported and feels snappy enough. You can always then buy a faster one if you feel you need more grunt in the CPU department... :)
And OS4.1 fully upgraded to Update 6.
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I have a 440ep, using the onboard gfx still, running dual 32 GB SSD's in it. Boots almost instantly. I bought it via pre-order in '08 via Amigakit and have been very pleased with it, but my usage case is very light. I just run a BBS on it, so it's got more than enough grunt for what I need.
I haven't had one single lick of problems with it, but if you're looking for a NG box to run games or do video stuff, you might want something with a bit more grunt, power wise. Plenty of people complain that the 440ep is a bit anemic power wise, but I've never had any issues with mine and they are relatively cheap ($300 or so, MB, RAM and OS) via the second hand market these days.
A lot of people love the A1 and Peg machines, but I detest IDE drives with a passion. SAM's are all SATA, thankfully. I've also had zero issues with USB at all, which can be a complaint the A1 and Peg guys have had in the past. I've literally never had a USB error, the machine has been 100% plug and play for me, USB wise, and I use USB sticks and external USB drives a *lot*.
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My Sam440 boots faster than my windows machine shuts down. And with the new UAE jit, playing old games is no problem.
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Hey guys, where is the best place to find a used Sam440 or 460 motherboard that would ship to new zealand can't see any on ebay, any recommends? i couldn't find any on amigakit guessing only used ones available now? And how much do these 2 motherboards usually sell for these days? thanks :))
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Try going to the Marketplace section on this site and the wanted section on Amibay's site and ask. Sometimes you will get an offer that day.
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Hey guys, where is the best place to find a used Sam440 or 460 motherboard that would ship to new zealand can't see any on ebay, any recommends? i couldn't find any on amigakit guessing only used ones available now? And how much do these 2 motherboards usually sell for these days? thanks :))
Note also, the AmigaOne 500 is a Sam 460-based complete system.
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I'm getting all the bits for my x1000 tomorrow :) I would recommend a second hand Sam 440 first, though, as they're cheap and give a good idea of the OS. They're plenty fast enough for most uses, but too slow for hi-def video and the browsers are a bit sluggish... but if you find you like it you can then sell that without any loss, probably, and go up to the next level like a 460, or even an x1000 which is very expensive but very nice! And if you don't like it, you can still sell it and not lose anything.
+1, except I would recommend getting a Sam460 (aka AmigaONE 500) since it supports the latest HD cards and has more grunt for E-UAE stuff ie. heavier AGA games (mind you with the way Rachi is going with JIT this might not be an issue any more).
which ever OS4.x machine you get, I highly recommend getting a Catweasel to use all your old floppies using spirantho's awesome drivers here http://www.retroreview.com/iang/Catweasel/
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The AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) supports the latest RadeonHD cards (5000/6000 and 7000 series), has 7.1 digital HD sound in AmigaOS and features the fastest CPU available to AmigaOS 4.1.
The X1000 is soon going to have AMIStore app store launched for it and there are several other software developments arriving for it this year. A-EON's focus this year is enabling more software for the X1000, its flagship product.
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The AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) supports all the latest RadeonHD cards, has 7.1 digital HD sound in AmigaOS and features the fastest CPU available to AmigaOS 4.1.
The X1000 is soon going to have AMIStore app store launched for it and there are several other software developments arriving for it this year. A-EON's focus this year is enabling more software for the X1000, its flagship product.
man that's great news since new hardware isn't a problem for us anymore :)
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Yes, A-EON is working very hard on the new AMIStore application and platform to support all the developers out there who want to bring their software to the AmigaOS market. Software is now the emphasis that the AmigaONE X1000 is available to customers.
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A-EON's focus this year is enabling more software for the X1000, its flagship product.
I guess the X5000 wont be a focus until its release?
Will this focus also include games, on the gaming forum here -
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67028
We talking about RPG Games, the Steam guys think its possible to port Unity to OS4.
Could A-eon and Amigakit start a competition on Steam providing hardware for them to port to OS4?
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I guess the X5000 wont be a focus until its release?
Will this focus also include games, on the gaming forum here -
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67028
We talking about RPG Games, the Steam guys think its possible to port Unity to OS4.
Could A-eon and Amigakit start a competition on Steam providing hardware for them to port to OS4?
Unity is commercial. A platform with only a couple of hundreds user is certainly not interesting to them (I know that because I tried to contact them some time ago).
You should better set realistic goals like porting a opensource engine. And there is now Antiryad Gx for almost all platforms (except AmigaOS). Perhaps you could persuade the developer to support AmigaOS in future. Unity is completely unrealistic. They will not even respond to you.
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The AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) supports the latest RadeonHD cards (5000/6000 and 7000 series), has 7.1 digital HD sound in AmigaOS and features the fastest CPU available to AmigaOS 4.1.
The X1000 is soon going to have AMIStore app store launched for it and there are several other software developments arriving for it this year. A-EON's focus this year is enabling more software for the X1000, its flagship product.
It sadly has 2D with all cards except Radeon 9250 which is even slower on X1000 PCI bus.
Not even onboard ethernet and SD card are visible under OS 4.2, not to mention above 256MB VRAM, 2GB FAST and second core
(32-bit limits). Its a killer flagship system, but way too advanced for OS. A single core G5 performant, 2GB DDR3, Radeon 9100 256MB VRAM
with Sound Blaster 5.1 would be more suitable. PA Semi has bad CPU but good FPU, Altivec and Memory Transfer, kind of between G3 CPU and G5 level tech.
I am glad there will be more X1000 software this year, but X1000 users are waiting for full OS 4.2, as paid.
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Could A-eon and Amigakit start a competition on Steam providing hardware for them to port to OS4?
It is intended that AMIStore will eventually be our equivalent of Steam for AmigaOS.
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I am glad there will be more X1000 software this year, but X1000 users are waiting for full OS 4.2, as paid.
A-EON is not in responsible or in charge of the Amiga Operating System development but every time there is a commercial opportunity for A-EON to support new software for the X1000, then this will be taken.
I guess the X5000 wont be a focus until its release?
The X5000 is a long way off consumer release and when it is finally ready, drivers and software all have to be written for it. The AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) is the product that A-EON is focusing all software efforts on.
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I can also recommend getting a used SAM440. Amiga OS responsive nature makes it feel like you are using a very fast computer
"It feel like you are using a very fast computer", well yes, until you actually start doing stuff of more modern kind, like watching videos (modern codecs, modern resolutions), browsing complex and heavy web sites, compiling, rendering, emulation, etc. There is no shortcut around the need of decent CPU power.
I do use both SAM460 and X1000, its nice to have em, but man, they are not fully used by OS, starting with more modern gfx cards that work 2D only
AFAIK, the proper 1.0 version of the 2D accelerated driver is strictly speaking not here yet AFAIK, only in beta/RC, yes? But it's said it will be soon?
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The X5000 is a long way off consumer release and when it is finally ready, drivers and software all have to be written for it.
Some (like the customers) could argue that it's not finally ready until the drivers are, right?
;)
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I'm curious if anyone knows of any FAQ's, or has any direct feedback, on the various incarnations of OS 4.x Amiga's that have come across to date. I may be in the market for a used one or even an X-#### model and would like to know what I'm getting into ahead of time if possible.
For example, I seem to recall one motherboard has an audio issue due to a missing capacitor or resistor?
I'm particularly interested in info on the Sam440/460 models as I've seen them advertised more than others.
Thanks!
IMHO you would be best off searching for a second hand Pegasos 2 G4. Happy hunting!
:)
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A-EON is not in responsible or in charge of the Amiga Operating System development but every time there is a commercial opportunity for A-EON to support new software for the X1000, then this will be taken.
Surely, no one is responsible, that is best part of it. :roflmao::rtfm:
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@takemehomegrandma
Some (like the customers) could argue that it's not finally ready until the drivers are, right?
Yes, you are of course correct, the main drivers need to be ready before consumer release. That is why we are in the process of working with developers for the provision of Cyrus' SATA, USB, Ethernet at the moment. Although this is one for the long term. Our priorities at the moment are the provision of more software for customers who have X1000s out there currently. This is where AMIStore app store becomes so important.
(http://www.amistore.net/images/amistore_preview.jpg)
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@takemehomegrandma
Yes, you are of course correct, the main drivers need to be ready before consumer release. That is why we are in the process of working with developers for the provision of Cyrus' SATA, USB, Ethernet at the moment. Although this is one for the long term. Our priorities at the moment are the provision of more software for customers who have X1000s out there currently.
Since SAM 440 no board has came with complete drivers, including NEMO. If this is true, this would be great lesson learned that unfinished products (from software side) should not be shipped, since it causes quite a lot headache to end users. And support too.
Even its a bit shameful that X5000 will come with OS 4.1.7 again, which means OS 4.2 has become kind of OS 5.0 mythical. As TW 22. Investment in software on any base is as important, if not even more, then new hardware development.
While I am happy Cyrus will provide more horsepower, it doesn`t accelerate AmigaOS development in any way.
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While I am happy Cyrus will provide more horsepower, it doesn`t accelerate AmigaOS development in any way.
You will be very surprised at how it pushes the emphasis on key AmigaOS developments in specific fields. Having both the X1000 and X5000 means that AmigaOS is headed in a new direction away from low memory, low powered hardware to a new generation of hardware and software needing the power of the X1000 and X5000.
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well I stand corrected cause it looks like the Samflex boards can in fact run some HD cards with a certain PCI to PCIe adapter, check here:http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36053&forum=14
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Yes you are correct, confirmed on A-EON website: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=radeonhd
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You will be very surprised at how it pushes the emphasis on key AmigaOS developments in specific fields. Having both the X1000 and X5000 means that AmigaOS is headed in a new direction away from low memory, low powered hardware to a new generation of hardware and software needing the power of the X1000 and X5000.
But if OS4 is heading *away* from the Amiga/AmigaOS way of things, why is the focus still on low volume, extreme cost custom PPC HW, that will never be able to compete with real 2014 desktop computers? I mean, if the cord to the Amiga legacy is cut once and for all (which is necessary for things like SMP, >31 bit/2GB limit, etc) why persist with PPC when all obstacles (Amiga legacy compatibility) from going x86/ARM is already removed anyway?
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well I stand corrected cause it looks like the Samflex boards can in fact run some HD cards with a certain PCI to PCIe adapter
Define "run"?
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Wow, good thread so far... seems like wide ranging opinions.
On the one hand, I want to update to an OS4 machine, but on the other I don't want to get a machine just to get one.
I would definitely want something where the hardware is not too low end that web browsing and video watching causes it to shudder. That being the case, it sounds like I should hold off and save for an X-1000 rather than settle for a Sam based system...
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I would have suggested ACube's website for SAM systems, but I just checked and all motherboards and complete systems appear to be sold out completely! I do hope they get more in soon. Shows that there is still demand around.
Two other systems not mentioned are from Eyetech: AmigaOne XE (full sized MB) and the mini-ITX version: Micro-A1C. I happen to have both and have been happy with them. I would have preferred a G4 CPU, but the 800Mhz G3 on both seem quite sufficient.
Best places to look for any NG machines:
Amibay, Marketplace here and on eab.abime.net. Occasionally, you'll see an advert at amigaworld.net and amigans.net too.
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I would have suggested ACube's website for SAM systems, but I just checked and all motherboards and complete systems appear to be sold out completely! I do hope they get more in soon. Shows that there is still demand around.
So them being out may simply be temporary? I was thinking that they dried up due to the X-1000 release... perhaps I should ask them if they plan on getting any back in.
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Gosh, it seems developing new hardware from scratch using modern components that then implements a radically new OS (but remarkable backward compatible with an older one) seems expensive. What happened to the old days when I could just hook my slide rule to my dot-matrix printer and play retro games from the 1980's?
But Golly, although Trevor met recently with Acube at the end of last year, Acube has not had any motherboards for sale for a long while nor loudly declared their Future Directions; A-Eon seems to be sole gun slinger on the street with active development and shipping product(s). While others say this-n-that about random OS's emulating the Amiga OS, OS4.1 feels and works just like the original (minus the patchwork of, well hell, "patches" that makes up OS3.9). I'm no judge having only used the AOS since 1986 with vastly updated V1.1, but OS4.1, well it just "feels" that way, and all my old IconX scripts work as well or better on OS4.1. IMHO, OS4.1 is solid, fast, cohesive, and beautiful; adding in Python, Ghostscript, backward compatibility, and a responsive development team.
As Adrian Monk says, "I could be wrong now." Or was that Randy Newman?
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Keep an eye on Amibay for a 440 board, Kernel. They used to come up for sale occasionally there for a fair price.
The 460 is a great machine, but not a terribly cost effective way to dip a toe into the OS4 scene, unfortunately.
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Keep an eye on Amibay for a 440 board, Kernel. They used to come up for sale occasionally there for a fair price.
The 460 is a great machine, but not a terribly cost effective way to dip a toe into the OS4 scene, unfortunately.
So what would be a fair price for a used 440?
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So what would be a fair price for a used 440?
This sale will give you an idea of going price....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161245447618?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I would love to buy this but a bit too rich for me... wonder how high it will go!
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So what would be a fair price for a used 440?
I payed around 400ish USD for my 440ep-flex with ram and a 9250 gfx card, so between 400-550 i would say they go for, depending on what configuration it is, ive also got tons of PCI-E radeon cards working on mine but 2D drivers so im still using the 9250.
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So what would be a fair price for a used 440?
Do not buy mini-itx version, it must be Flex version. So that you are not tied to build in graphics of mini-itx version.
Compared to AmigaOne SE, Sam 440ep Flex is much faster prety much in every aspect. Even sam's PCI slot is faster than SE's AGP slot.
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I think a 440ep (not flex) is fine for most things... it's only 3D games that would struggle. The onboard graphics on it are much better than the 460's chip... I have no troubles with mine at all.
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You will be very surprised at how it pushes the emphasis on key AmigaOS developments in specific fields. Having both the X1000 and X5000 means that AmigaOS is headed in a new direction away from low memory, low powered hardware to a new generation of hardware
and software needing the power of the X1000 and X5000.
One day youy say development is divided, other day its linked.
As x1000 user I clearly say there is no currently software that really needs X1000. Yes, x1000 is great hardware, but AmigaOS is in sad state currently when compared what it COULD use. Since it will be more or less the same, same situation will repeat when Cyrus is beta tested.
Once OS 4.2, TW and Libre are out, situation MIGHT be a bit like you say.
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This sale will give you an idea of going price....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161245447618?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I would love to buy this but a bit too rich for me... wonder how high it will go!
I was thinking of bidding on it but I did in fact email ACube and received a response that another batch is in production and scheduled for the May timeframe, so I'll wait it out. I'm still working on bringing my A3K back to life anyhow. Might just keep adding money to the pot and end up with an X-1000... who knows.
I already planted that seed with the wife and we all know it just takes a seed and eventually something comes to fruition ;-)
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Did ACube specifically state that more SAM 440EP Flex boards would be available? That would be great! I sold my SAM460 as it was quit quirky but I am really wanting to get a 800MHz SAM440 now. I already have another new Silverstone case to house the board. The SAM 440 ebay auction is up to $720..+ bucks now! Wow... who ever wins it may kick themselves in the butt later when more boards are available at a lesser cost.
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Did ACube specifically state that more SAM 440EP Flex boards would be available? That would be great! I sold my SAM460 as it was quit quirky but I am really wanting to get a 800MHz SAM440 now. I already have another new Silverstone case to house the board. The SAM 440 ebay auction is up to $720..+ bucks now! Wow... who ever wins it may kick themselves in the butt later when more boards are available at a lesser cost.
Well, right now the cost is approx. what it would be for the same setup as bought new if my calculations are correct... here is the email excerpt (I asked about "Sam" in general not a specific model...):
Hello,
Shipping to USA is 55 euros for the board alone and 71 euros for an A1-500.
There is a new batch in production that will be ready for mid-May.
2014-03-15 4:30 GMT+01:00 :
message = Will ACube be getting any Sam boards back in stock soon or are they out permanently?
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kernel
Try to get your hand on a Pegasos2. Its the best platform atm for os4 (kind of ironic) especially with price ratio. And you can run Mophos, YDL, Ubuntu, OS X, Suse and more!
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here is the email excerpt (I asked about "Sam" in general not a specific model...):
Hello,
Shipping to USA is 55 euros for the board alone and 71 euros for an A1-500.
The "A1-500" suggiest that they mean Sam460ex as that is the motherboard used in AmigaOne 500.
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kernel
Try to get your hand on a Pegasos2. Its the best platform atm for os4 (kind of ironic) especially with price ratio. And you can run Mophos, YDL, Ubuntu, OS X, Suse and more!
Pegasos 2 has a limited possibilities to choose graphics card. It is not a possible to use Radeon HD cards with it.
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Pegasos 2 has a limited possibilities to choose graphics card. It is not a possible to use Radeon HD cards with it.
Which 2D card at this time ... and therefore is limit itself. When I try to run my Payback not even warpz3d emulation works, and bang, I wish I had 9250 I had decade ago and not 6870 monster card.
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Which 2D card at this time ... and therefore is limit itself. When I try to run my Payback not even warpz3d emulation works, and bang, I wish I had 9250 I had decade ago and not 6870 monster card.
What system are you using the 6870 on? Also it's not a monster card but a top mid range card from the end of 2010, but it was a competitive card for it's price and still pulls of quite good in new games and most of the time does medium setting in 1920x1080 without problems :)
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What system are you using the 6870 on? Also it's not a monster card but a top mid range card from the end of 2010, but it was a competitive card for it's price and still pulls of quite good in new games and most of the time does medium setting in 1920x1080 without problems :)
x1000. It was a best card AmigaKit was offering at time, RADEON BARTS, as well as its best Radeon I ever had, sadly very little really used under Linux. on AmigaOS 4 it has quite a similar function as my ages old ISA Trident or Cirrus Logic - to make a 2D display.
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@OP
OS4.x compatible systems:
1) Amiga + Blizzard/Cyberstorm PPC
Compatible with AmigaOS4.x for classic (developed as a seperate release from AmigaOS4.x)
Not guaranteed to be supported by latest OS release, so you may be left lagging behind. In the long term, has to be a boat anchor to development and testing.
Not all (useful) hardware supported - Blizzard PPC scsi chip being one, so you may be left using slow internal IDE bus.
The slowest of AmigaOS supported hardware, but the last real "Amiga".
Will almost certainly not support latest Linux releases.
Will run AROS
Will run MorphOS with a supported RTG card (2 hour time limited demo version, not currently possible to register).
2) AmigaONE SE (G3)
Dreadful, slow, buggy. Avoid.
The slowest 'NG' hardware. A few people have got them running relatively stably, but it's not going to be an easy experience.
3) AmigaONE XE (G3/G4)
Seem to be a lot more stable, although ymmv with a particular board.
The best (or at least the most numerous, resulting in a higher number of 'good' boards) of the Eyetech AmigaONE boards produced.
Good expandability (4? PCI slots), depending on mods made to the board you MAY be able to use a PCI>PCIe adapter and RadeonHD cards*.
Onboard ATA may need to be limited to PIO modes, onboard USB may not work, can be replaced with PCI cards.
4) micro AmigaONE (G3/G4)
Seem to have more problems than the XE, limited expandability, has onboard graphics (Radeon M9/32MB VRam iirc).
Discuss with uA1 owners for more detail on various issues/quirks.
5) Pegasos 2 (G3/G4)
Similar features to AmigaONE XE, but without any of the problems. Stable as hell in fact.
Supports AGP graphics cards.
Onboard Gigabit ethernet (not sure if supported by AmigaOS) and Firewire 400 (not supported by AmigaOS).
Also runs Linux, Mac-on-Linux, MorphOS, etc (Not sure of AROS support).
6) Sam440ep / flex
Well supported by AmigaOS, but weak cpu.
Flex model has good expansion (PCI), plain ep model less so.
Can be bought new for low** cost (
7) SAM 460 (aka AmigaONE 500 when sold in a case)
Better CPU (G4 class, but no altivec iirc)
Good expandability (PCIe x 4 (x16 physical connector for GFx cards), PCIe x 1, PCI x 1
Expensive, but shiny and new.
Onboard audio had several problems, mainly soved through driver updates, but also a manufacturing error (missing resistor) on the audio subsystem on some (not all) individual units. Not sure if all audio problems are entirely soved yet, check with Metalheart and others on AW.net for more info. Can be easily worked around with audio PCI card.
Onboard SATA is mutually exclusive with onboard PCIe x 1 slot (only one can be in use - pick your poison).
Has limited onboard graphics (SM502)
8) AmigaONE X1000
Powerful (~G4-G5) cpu (Multiple cores/64-bit modes supported in Linux, but not in AmigaOS 4.x at all).
Good expandability (2 x PCIex16 graphics slots (only 16 lanes assigned - can be 1 x 16x, or 2 x 8x) , 2 PCIe slots, 2 PCI slots.
Onboard USB2.
Has Xena (use yet to be determined) bolted to CPU GPIO lanes (use-case for this high-speed, low-latency interface is yet to be determined), and to Xorro slot. Xorro slot can be fitted with an I/O board to present interface outside the case (again, usefulness yet to be determined).
Seem to be a very stable board, although PCI bus is shockingly slow (possibly lack of DMA in AmigaOS4 PCI drivers on this board) so even using a PCI based graphics card may be very slow.
Frankly, were I determined to buy an AmigaOS compatible board, I'd go for the Peg2, Sam440, the X1000 or the SAM460.
Not bothered about having a new board? Peg2 - best all-rounder, most stable G4 board, has altivec.
Just to test compatibillity/play around with as a curiosity? Sam440
As an AmigaOS4.x main machine at a reasonable** price? Sam460
As a dual-booting useful Linux workstation capable of doing some real number crunching/high memory applications, which also runs AmigaOS4.x? X1000
The new boards have companies behind which will give you good hardware support (A-Eon, A-Cube). The Peg2's have had fantastic hardware support for nearly a decade, but are not under any warranty. Eyetech boards aren't in any way supported, although you may be able to get repairs/hardware-mods performed by 3rd parties.
Hardware assessed, I would also base my decision on what is supported RIGHT NOW in AmigaOS, not what has been implied/promised/bet-it-won't-take-two-years'ed.
The last few years have shown how little Hyperion can be relied upon to pull their weight with respect to moving AmigaOS forward, as nearly all progress has been either 3rd party (funded by A-Eon mainly), or community volunteers gaining access to continue elements of OS development (Lyle Hazlewood, Fredrick Wistrom).
Multi-core? Gallium 3D? I'll believe it when I see it _working_.
Open-office? Warp3D? Much more of a chance of appearing, as it's a 3rd-party effort funded by Trevor.
* RadeonHD cards are currently supported in 2D only (Respect to Hans's 2D work, which seems to function well from what I have read (haven't used myself)). Hardware video scaling on these cards requires 3D drivers, which are dependent upon Hyperion's Gallium3D work, which has been some years and appears to have made little progress.
Consequently, video playback performance on these cards really sucks, so until/if/when/somewhere-over-the-rainbow 3D drivers arrive (and video scaling via textures) you're probably better off sticking with a Radeon 9xxx if you want to be able to watch videos or play 3D games.
** Used in the relative sense.
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it has quite a similar function as my ages old ISA Trident or Cirrus Logic - to make a 2D display
This is completely wrong.
If you run the compositing Boing Ball demo from Hans De Ruiter, you will see the clear performance difference between a RadeonHD 6870 and lower specced cards. The demo is much smoother and faster. If you run M.A.C.E full game with FPS in 1920x1080, you can also see the performance difference with RadeonHD 6870.
And A-EON has some software coming out in the next three months that will demonstrate some more of the power of the RadeonHD on AmigaONE X1000 over other AmigaOS 4 hardware.
Choosing lower specced second hand hardware may not be the best choice soon...
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The "A1-500" suggiest that they mean Sam460ex as that is the motherboard used in AmigaOne 500.
Good point - I've asked for clarification from them and will follow-up when I receive it.
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Good point - I've asked for clarification from them and will follow-up when I receive it.
Ok, they responded:
Hi,
Only Sam460 and A1-500.
Regards,
2014-03-16 17:19 GMT+01:00
To be clear, the “batch” – is this just Sam460ex motherboards and A1-500 systems or will there also be Sam440ep-Flex boards available?
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Pegasos 2 has a limited possibilities to choose graphics card. It is not a possible to use Radeon HD cards with it.
However, the possibilities to use Radeon HD cards for anything useful in OS4 is rather limited, where a Radeon 9250 offers 2D acceleration, 3D acceleration and overlay. And technically speaking, there are many possible AGP cards that would work in a Pegasos 2 so I wouldn't call it "limited selection", but as usual it's a matter of drivers, which has always been an Achilles Heel in OS4...
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Choosing lower specced second hand hardware may not be the best choice soon...
OTOH $3,000+ HW with slightly worse performance than some second hand HW may not be a possible choice at all...
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* RadeonHD cards are currently supported in 2D only (Respect to Hans's 2D work, which seems to function well from what I have read (haven't used myself)). Hardware video scaling on these cards requires 3D drivers, which are dependent upon Hyperion's Gallium3D work, which has been some years and appears to have made little progress.
Correction, hardware scaling could be done today using CompositeTags(). All that is required is for application developers to actually use it.
What can't be done (yet) is directly display YUV bitmaps, which is one of the key things that makes video playback with overlay faster. None of this has anything to do with 3D drivers or lack thereof. 3D drivers won't magically change anything.
Consequently, video playback performance on these cards really sucks, so until/if/when/somewhere-over-the-rainbow 3D drivers arrive (and video scaling via textures) you're probably better off sticking with a Radeon 9xxx if you want to be able to watch videos or play 3D games.
Define "video playback sucks." My experience has been that video playback of non-HD content via Radeon HD cards is pretty good.** I certainly don't have trouble playing DVDs. If you're talking about HD content, then I'm pretty sure that no AmigaOS system with a Radeon 9xxx can play that smoothly either.
According to these benchmarks (http://wap.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=36355&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#680357), a Sam460ex with a Radeon HD card (and no overlay) actually plays back video better than a Sam440 with overlay. NOTE: These results were obtained with MPEG-4 video, which is more CPU intensive than the MPEG-2 on DVDs.
Hans
** On systems with an actual PCIe port.
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Define "video playback sucks" ... I certainly don't have trouble playing DVDs.
Well, you kind of said it yourself there. Even the Efika 5k2 could play DVD resolution MPEG-2 streams on a 9xxx card, and if this is your peak performance on a system with PCIe and Radeon HD, then it actually kind of sucks IMHO.
If you're talking about HD content, then I'm pretty sure that no AmigaOS system with a Radeon 9xxx can play that smoothly either.
Maybe not OS4 systems, but many of the more popular G4 based MorphOS systems with Radeon 9xxx cards can usually manage proper x264 720p streams, which is a HD resolution, and the G5 systems does x264 1080p.
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I didn't see anyone showing interest in MOS systems in this thread, TMHG.
I know how much you like preaching the blue gospel, but enough sandbagging other peoples threads.
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I didn't see anyone showing interest in MOS systems in this thread, TMHG.
I know how much you like preaching the blue gospel, but enough sandbagging other peoples threads.
Sorry that you didn't like my post, but in a HW discussion about what could (or should really) be expected in terms of video playback performance on PCIe based Radeon HD systems, and whether it sucks or not compared to Radeon 9xxx (or vice versa), it certainly illustrated what is possible on good, old G4's with AGP Radeon 9xxx HW, as a reference, albeit on a different OS. I Leave it up to the reader to decide for himself just where the "suckyness" lies here... ;)
:)
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I didn't see anyone showing interest in MOS systems in this thread, TMHG.
I know how much you like preaching the blue gospel, but enough sandbagging other peoples threads.
HARDLY, its a valid point. And as MY interests cross both OS'. I'm interested.
So your OS can't do HD video?
How come every time there a flaw in OS4 performance, we're preaching 'blue gospel'?
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I'm a MOS user as well, bought and paid for, so don't indoctrinate me :)
Thread title is: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
Isn't it? I could have very well said "Well, a $200 used Mac will likely give you a more powerful Amiga NG experience", but such a comment would hardly be solicited in such a thread. Considered rude even, perhaps.
If a guy is interested in a '57 Chevy and asking opinions and experiences with one, it'd be crass to blaze in and jack his thread with "c'mon man, buy a Vette, don't be stupid!".
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Well, you kind of said it yourself there. Even the Efika 5k2 could play DVD resolution MPEG-2 streams on a 9xxx card, and if this is your peak performance on a system with PCIe and Radeon HD, then it actually kind of sucks IMHO.
Where did I say that DVD resolution was peak performance? I've noticed a lot of nonsense about how horrible video playback is without overlay, with someone going as far as saying that he'd rather hang himself. He was talking about 480p at the time...
My question still stands.
Maybe not OS4 systems, but many of the more popular G4 based MorphOS systems with Radeon 9xxx cards can usually manage proper x264 720p streams, which is a HD resolution, and the G5 systems does x264 1080p.
I assume that you're talking about the low-end H.264 profiles here (i.e., basic MPEG-4), because decoding full HD H.264 AVC with a software decoder is multi-core territory. That's a bit misleading to claim HD playback when only a subset of such HD files can actually be decoded in real-time. Or, are you really claiming that a MorphOS G5 system can handle any 1080p video, including H.264 AVC?
Hans
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I'm a MOS user as well, bought and paid for, so don't indoctrinate me :)
Thread title is: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
Isn't it? I could have very well said "Well, a $200 used Mac will likely give you a more powerful Amiga NG experience", but such a comment would hardly be solicited in such a thread. Considered rude even, perhaps.
If a guy is interested in a '57 Chevy and asking opinions and experiences with one, it'd be crass to blaze in and jack his thread with "c'mon man, buy a Vette, don't be stupid!".
Can't we all just get along? ;-)
You're right, that is the title and intent of my original post. I don't mind the topic straying a bit here and there as long as it remains close to the spirit of the original... there is definitely a lot of useful information I've gained from it so far.
I'm not interested in MorphOS at this time but the discussion of video and what is/isn't supported and why is good info.
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Could always try both platforms, Kernel.
MOS machines are cheap and the OS free to try.
As for OS4, some people, including myself on a couple occasions - have helped out people considering buying an OS4 machine out by letting them VNC into our OS4 boxes and letting guys take them for a whirl.
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Well, you kind of said it yourself there. Even the Efika 5k2 could play DVD resolution MPEG-2 streams on a 9xxx card, and if this is your peak performance on a system with PCIe and Radeon HD, then it actually kind of sucks IMHO.
Just following up on this; I downloaded and played a 720p DIVX (so MPEG-4) clip on my A1-X1000 with no noticeable frame-skipping. This was with a Radeon HD 7750, so no overlay was available.
The exact stats are:
RAM Disk:BigBuckBunny_DivX_HD720p_ASP.divx
Video: AVI, 1280 x 720, 24.00 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 48000 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 14710
Nr of Frames played: 14689
Nr of Frames skipped: 21 (1%)
Total Playback Time: 612.853 seconds
Average Framerate: 24.002 fps
Displayed Framerate: 23.968 fps
NOTE: If you do the calculations, you'll see that it skipped 0.14% of frames, not 1% as DvPlayer states above.
Don't get me wrong, overlay/textured-video would improve things. However, I think that some people are significantly overstating the problem.
Hans
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Cool Hans.
That is exactly the kind of info I wanted back.
An X1000 system can do it, I thought that was likely (if a G4 PowerMac system handles it).
Hard to say if they e5500 cored cpus in the X5000 will improve on this.
BOTH OS4 and MorphOS could use gpu acceleration to aid these rates.
And, no, it doesn't take big cpu power with the right hardware.
Relatively underpowered ARM cpus can handle 1080p.
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Correction, hardware scaling could be done today using CompositeTags(). All that is required is for application developers to actually use it.
Easy to implement for eg mplayer? Why has no-one done this..?
What can't be done (yet) is directly display YUV bitmaps, which is one of the key things that makes video playback with overlay faster. None of this has anything to do with 3D drivers or lack thereof. 3D drivers won't magically change anything.
Apologies, I must have misunderstood Karlos, or plans have changed (http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-61993.html)
Karlos wrote:Right now, as far as I know no specific implementation exists for the RadeonHD drivers. With adequate 3D support, however, implementing a hardware video surface via video texturing becomes feasible. Since both 3D and video playback are desirable features, it makes sense to focus on the overlap.
What would be the best approach to improving video playback in your experience Hans? (Who do OS4.x users nag at to get this done... :D )
Define "video playback sucks." My experience has been that video playback of non-HD content via Radeon HD cards is pretty good.** I certainly don't have trouble playing DVDs. If you're talking about HD content, then I'm pretty sure that no AmigaOS system with a Radeon 9xxx can play that smoothly either.
I was trying to be fair but frank. "Pretty good" doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. Can DVDs be watched on Sam460 with no frame dropping? Does resizing/fullscreening impact upon playback? Can you watch video windowsed/scaled whilst doing other stuff (eg web browsing)? What percent cpu is used by stuff that could/should be offloaded to overlay/textured-video?*
According to these benchmarks (http://wap.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=36355&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#680357), a Sam460ex with a Radeon HD card (and no overlay) actually plays back video better than a Sam440 with overlay. NOTE: These results were obtained with MPEG-4 video, which is more CPU intensive than the MPEG-2 on DVDs.
Hans
** On systems with an actual PCIe port.
From the same thread (PCI>PCIe adapter notwithstanding, how much bandwidth does 480p video need anyway...), albeit an extreme case:
The Sam will play back a 720x304 video in full screen without frameskip with overlay
Results from A Sam440ep-Flex 800 with Radeon HD4800 via PCIE adapter
WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/DVDS/Viewed/Limitless {2011} DVDRIP.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 44100 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4358
Nr of Frames played: 1514
Nr of Frames skipped: 2844 (66%)
Total Playback Time: 181.746 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.978 fps
Displayed Framerate: 8.330 fps
Results from Same machine with Radeon 9250 and overlay.
8.WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/DVDS/Viewed/Limitless {2011} DVDRIP.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 44100 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4364
Nr of Frames played: 4364
Nr of Frames skipped: 0 (0%)
Total Playback Time: 182.037 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.973 fps
Displayed Framerate: 23.973 fps
*NB - I'm asking out of curiosity, since I don't have the facility to test myself, not to prove a point. These are things which will probably be a bit testing, but common operations I'd expect to be able to carry out without going slideshow/losing sync.
Efika for example can't handle most of these even with some 480p avi's and a 9250 (when played from USB).
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Easy to implement for eg mplayer? Why has no-one done this..?
IMHO, yes, it should be pretty easy. I have no idea why no-one has done this yet. Maybe everyone has been busy with other projects...
Apologies, I must have misunderstood Karlos, or plans have changed (http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-61993.html)
Karlos wrote:
Right now, as far as I know no specific implementation exists for the RadeonHD drivers. With adequate 3D support, however, implementing a hardware video surface via video texturing becomes feasible. Since both 3D and video playback are desirable features, it makes sense to focus on the overlap.
What would be the best approach to improving video playback in your experience Hans? (Who do OS4.x users nag at to get this done... :D )
Well, once OpenGL with shader support is available, then application developers could easily write their own GPU assisted YUV=>RGB conversion code. So, he's correct in that. However, that doesn't mean that 3D is the only way, nor would the appearance of 3D drivers magically improve anything.
Don't nag anyone; we're aware of the situation and the various options to fix it. :razz:
I was trying to be fair but frank. "Pretty good" doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. Can DVDs be watched on Sam460 with no frame dropping? Does resizing/fullscreening impact upon playback? Can you watch video windowsed/scaled whilst doing other stuff (eg web browsing)? What percent cpu is used by stuff that could/should be offloaded to overlay/textured-video?*
Yes, I can watch a DVD on the Sam460 without frame skipping. At least, I didn't notice any skipping last time I tried. No video scaling for now. However, that's not due to driver limitations. I can't remember what the CPU usage was.
Overlay/textured-video handles the YUV=>RGB conversion and scaling. That alone helps quite a bit, but its still no match for a hardware decoder.
BTW, the DVD drive can also have a big effect on DVD playback. There are a lot of poor quality drives out there, or drives that really need a firmware update. My A1-XE G4 stopped being able to play DVDs smoothly after "upgrading" to a new DVD drive. So, if someone else with a Sam460 can't play DVDs smoothly, then their DVD drive would be the prime suspect.
From the same thread (PCI>PCIe adapter notwithstanding, how much bandwidth does 480p video need anyway...), albeit an extreme case:
For 704x480 @24fps, you need:
- 30.9 MiB/s when using 32-bit RGBA
- 11.6 MiB/s for the YUV420p pixel format (a possibility with overlay/textured-video)
Based on this GfxBench2D result (http://hdrlab.org.nz/benchmark/gfxbench2d/OS/AmigaOS/Motherboard/Sam440EP/Result/916), a Sam440ep-flex with Radeon HD 6670 can manage:
- 13.52 MiB/s with a CPU-based copy routine
- 90.23 MiB/s if DMA is used via WritePixelArray()/BlitBitMap()
AFAIK, MPlayer and DvPlayer use their own CPU-based copy routine, so the copy bandwidth is killing any chance of smooth playback (NOTE: the CPU needs time to decode the video too). Needless to say, I encourage developers to use WritePixelArray()/BlitBitMap() for transfers to/from VRAM.
By contrast, here are the bandwidth results for the Radeon M9 in a Sam440ep (link (http://hdrlab.org.nz/benchmark/gfxbench2d/OS/AmigaOS/Motherboard/Sam440EP/Result/864)):
- 53.45 MiB/s CPU copy
- 90.98 MiB/s WritePixelArray
Clearly the bandwidth is enough for 480p video, especially if overlay is used.
Hans
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This is completely wrong.
If you run the compositing Boing Ball demo from Hans De Ruiter, you will see the clear performance difference between a RadeonHD 6870 and lower specced cards. The demo is much smoother and faster. If you run M.A.C.E full game with FPS in 1920x1080, you can also see the performance difference with RadeonHD 6870.
And A-EON has some software coming out in the next three months that will demonstrate some more of the power of the RadeonHD on AmigaONE X1000 over other AmigaOS 4 hardware.
Choosing lower specced second hand hardware may not be the best choice soon...
Its perfectly correct as it offers just 2D.
Yes, BoingBall demo is nice, but is just a demo.
Currently, I wish I invested in Peg2, but yet you are to prove me wrong.
As I argue, its not the hardware itself, its the way OS4 use, or better say isn`t using it. Linux with LXDE does proper job on X1000 and I wouldn`t be able to cope with daily tasks if I didn`t have it.
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@Vox
The Boing Ball demo is a good benchmark of the performance of the hardware and the RadeonHD driver (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1107).
A-EON has been investing in further graphics software development in the meantime.
Currently, I wish I invested in Peg2, but yet you are to prove me wrong.
Try running the new Odyssey v1.23 web browser for AmigaOS 4.1 (http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=network/browser/odyssey.lha) that has been released today and play videos in YouTube. The perfomance difference between a SAM/Pegasos and the more powerful AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) is very noticeable.
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Its perfectly correct as it offers just 2D.
Yes, BoingBall demo is nice, but is just a demo.
Currently, I wish I invested in Peg2, but yet you are to prove me wrong.
As I argue, its not the hardware itself, its the way OS4 use, or better say isn`t using it. Linux with LXDE does proper job on X1000 and I wouldn`t be able to cope with daily tasks if I didn`t have it.
Vox, I thought that you swapped your x1000 with djnykk? How on earth can you now have another one to run linux? :hammer:
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Well, once OpenGL with shader support is available, then application developers could easily write their own GPU assisted YUV=>RGB conversion code. So, he's correct in that. However, that doesn't mean that 3D is the only way, nor would the appearance of 3D drivers magically improve anything.
Don't nag anyone; we're aware of the situation and the various options to fix it. :razz:
No problem, and thanks for the clarification. Could you elaborate on what other options might be available, or what direction you envisage development in this area going. It's interesting and educational. :)
Yes, I can watch a DVD on the Sam460 without frame skipping. At least, I didn't notice any skipping last time I tried. No video scaling for now. However, that's not due to driver limitations. I can't remember what the CPU usage was.
So is video playback is currently limited to windowed 1:1 scaling, with no fulll-screen mode?
Overlay/textured-video handles the YUV=>RGB conversion and scaling. That alone helps quite a bit, but its still no match for a hardware decoder.
Indeed, but every little helps when decoding has to be done by the cpu.
BTW, the DVD drive can also have a big effect on DVD playback. There are a lot of poor quality drives out there, or drives that really need a firmware update. My A1-XE G4 stopped being able to play DVDs smoothly after "upgrading" to a new DVD drive. So, if someone else with a Sam460 can't play DVDs smoothly, then their DVD drive would be the prime suspect.
I've noticed that myself - my mac-mini's optical drive is a real PITA, although thankfully mplayer config can be adapted for buffering from varous sources, which helps a bit.
For 704x480 @24fps, you need:
- 30.9 MiB/s when using 32-bit RGBA
- 11.6 MiB/s for the YUV420p pixel format (a possibility with overlay/textured-video)
Based on this GfxBench2D result (http://hdrlab.org.nz/benchmark/gfxbench2d/OS/AmigaOS/Motherboard/Sam440EP/Result/916), a Sam440ep-flex with Radeon HD 6670 can manage:
- 13.52 MiB/s with a CPU-based copy routine
- 90.23 MiB/s if DMA is used via WritePixelArray()/BlitBitMap()
AFAIK, MPlayer and DvPlayer use their own CPU-based copy routine, so the copy bandwidth is killing any chance of smooth playback (NOTE: the CPU needs time to decode the video too). Needless to say, I encourage developers to use WritePixelArray()/BlitBitMap() for transfers to/from VRAM.
By contrast, here are the bandwidth results for the Radeon M9 in a Sam440ep (link (http://hdrlab.org.nz/benchmark/gfxbench2d/OS/AmigaOS/Motherboard/Sam440EP/Result/864)):
- 53.45 MiB/s CPU copy
- 90.98 MiB/s WritePixelArray
Clearly the bandwidth is enough for 480p video, especially if overlay is used.
Hans
Indeed, in fact if using YUV & overlay/textured, 720p should be within the bandwidth limitations (other possible bottlenecks aside eg decoding).
Thanks for the detailed answers, and sorry yto the OP for the thread detour ;)
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Indeed, in fact if using YUV & overlay/textured, 720p should be within the bandwidth limitations (other possible bottlenecks aside eg decoding).
Thanks for the detailed answers, and sorry yto the OP for the thread detour ;)
It might be pushing it for a SAM460, which is why I'd really like to see a hardware decoder.
These are often incorporated into ARM Socs (seperate from the GPU), but we could add one via PCI or PCI-e.
And yes, sorry for the detour.
I myself am a rapib MorphOS user, but that doesn't mean I don't want a Sam460 or X1000. And, as OS4 is the closest OS to MorphOS, obviousaly I keep track of developments in it.
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Iggy, did you mean "rabid" as in rabies, a neurodegenerative and fatal viral encephalopathy where normal animals become aggressively hostile and attack others? This WOULD explain some posts by MorphOS users.
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Vox, I thought that you swapped your x1000 with djnykk? How on earth can you now have another one to run linux? :hammer:
Simply, x1000 is currently at my place for Linux setup. Answer is simple DJ Nick and me are friends and we do live in same city. And I have more time to bother, he likes it finished. There is SAM460ex Linux and AmigaOS 4 under way, waiting for MorphOS.
And AEROS r3.5 on my laptop :hammer:
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@Vox
The Boing Ball demo is a good benchmark of the performance of the hardware and the RadeonHD driver (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1107).
A-EON has been investing in further graphics software development in the meantime.
Try running the new Odyssey v1.23 web browser for AmigaOS 4.1 (http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=network/browser/odyssey.lha) that has been released today and play videos in YouTube. The perfomance difference between a SAM/Pegasos and the more powerful AmigaONE X1000 (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1071) is very noticeable.
Nice. That is MOS port paid by community. When will there be Timberwolf 4 which is *almost* working and is also funded by community?
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/Sherlock Holmes mode on
So you see my dear Watson, all of the evidence stacks up. Once you have removed the impossible, what remains regardless of how improbable, must be the truth. Therefore, one can only conclude that Vox and djnick are the one and the same person... Elementary! :)
/Sherlock Holmes mode off
:laughing:
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Iggy, did you mean "rabid" as in rabies, a neurodegenerative and fatal viral encephalopathy where normal animals become aggressively hostile and attack others? This WOULD explain some posts by MorphOS users.
Of course! I've got hostile and aggressive honed to a skill.
Some of us are polite like Andre, and some like us (like myself) feel the need to go full bore a-hole when offended.
Like I've said before, everyone has to have a hobby.
Mine's proving you can't be a bigger jerk than me.
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/Sherlock Holmes mode on
So you see my dear Watson, all of the evidence stacks up. Once you have removed the impossible, what remains regardless of how improbable, must be the truth. Therefore, one can only conclude that Vox and djnick are the one and the same person... Elementary! :)
/Sherlock Holmes mode off
:laughing:
No, we are long term friends. If I had all the skills DJ Nick had, I would not bother with social work at all :-) Is it so hard to believe I can have few computers at home at one time, including two PPC Amigas, an PS3 and a laptop that runs AEROS?
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Iggy, did you notice the "fatal" part?
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Iggy, did you notice the "fatal" part?
I've decided not to die Dan, it doesn't look good.
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No problem, and thanks for the clarification. Could you elaborate on what other options might be available, or what direction you envisage development in this area going. It's interesting and educational. :)
Well, they've pretty much all been covered already. Using a HW video decoder (Radeon HD cards have one) would be the best solution, but it's a huge job. Another option would be waiting for Gallium3D to be available, and updating video players to use custom shaders. Next is textured video, which uses the GPU to render YUV bitmaps straight to screen. It essentially does the same job as the Gallium3D option, but is easier to use (no need to set up custom OpenGL shaders). Finally, while Radeon HD cards don't have overlay hardware, it could probably be emulated. However, that would be more complicated than textured video, and be far less flexible.
So is video playback is currently limited to windowed 1:1 scaling, with no fulll-screen mode?
Full screen too, although the video might not completely fill the screen. In the case of a 720p video, it matches a 1280x720 screen perfectly, so it does completely fill the screen.
Hans
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Full screen too, although the video might not completely fill the screen. In the case of a 720p video, it matches a 1280x720 screen perfectly, so it does completely fill the screen.
Hans
Thanks for very informative answer Hans.
Gallium or hardware decoder, there is no much point in using the big fat and mighty newer cards, if we dont (ab)use their features. I can add only one instance where current acceleration does help and that is smooth graphics of M.A.C.E, but then again that is a mobile phone style game with kind of pseudo 3D, basically a 2D scroll shooter. For most of titles that have to use Warp3D software emulation, it undermines even not best PA Semi performance.
So current state of affairs isn`t much to celeberate, even you are the man.
Saying that, DJ Nick and me counted we have purchased 3 licenses of RadeonHD driver. You will have further support for your hardwork and it would be good if driver could be shared with MOS and AROS community - many things are backports from their communities nowadays and it will be badly needed once MOS starts supporting SAM460ex.
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it would be good if driver could be shared with MOS and AROS community - many things are backports from their communities nowadays and it will be badly needed once MOS starts supporting SAM460ex.
I obviously don't speak for the MorphOS team, but to me it seems like the MorphOS team believes that providing HW support, API's and drivers for applications to use, is one of the core functions of an Operating System, and they mostly (with a few exceptions) wants to develop their own drivers, especially the GFX drivers. If/when MorphOS will support the Sam 460, I expect GFX drivers to be there, as they are part of the package, one of the things defining the word "support" when talking about an OS supporting HW. I guess we'll know in due time...
:)
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I obviously don't speak for the MorphOS team, but to me it seems like the MorphOS team believes that providing HW support, API's and drivers for applications to use, is one of the core functions of an Operating System, and they mostly (with a few exceptions) wants to develop their own drivers, especially the GFX drivers. If/when MorphOS will support the Sam 460, I expect GFX drivers to be there, as they are part of the package, one of the things defining the word "support" when talking about an OS supporting HW. I guess we'll know in due time...
:)
OK that is one way to look at it, but may be a longer route. We just witness that some crucial AmigaOS 4 functionality like MUI4 and HTML5 browser come by outsourcing it from MOS.
Waiting for that time.
P.S.
What I like with the Free and Open Source is exactly that - no need to duplicate things. Thus, we are not DEVELOPING Office for OS4, we are just PORTING Libre office, same goes for Timberwolf and even Gallium, or CUPS.
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I obviously don't speak for the MorphOS team, but to me it seems like the MorphOS team believes that providing HW support, API's and drivers for applications to use, is one of the core functions of an Operating System, and they mostly (with a few exceptions) wants to develop their own drivers, especially the GFX drivers. If/when MorphOS will support the Sam 460, I expect GFX drivers to be there, as they are part of the package, one of the things defining the word "support" when talking about an OS supporting HW. I guess we'll know in due time...
:)
in due time...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
That's one of the advantages in not talking about ongoing developments.
But with a history of going farther than anticipated, I expect some great things to be released.
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Yeah OP asked for some advice on amiga os, and it turns in to yet an other amiga os bashing.
Don't you guys have any thing better to do with your time?
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@Vox.
Sediously?
In the very same post you've claimed OS4 stuff like OS4 developments like html5 and OWB are ported not developed in a negative way, yet the stuff you claim as a positive for MOS is also largely "ported, not developed".
Do you even think before you type these days?
Also, what exactly do you think porting means? It often, ironically, requires quite some development to port software.
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@fishy_fiz
WebKit is ported (and many other libraries) but the browser is developed on MorphOS.
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Yeah I realise that and fab has created a nice browser, and to be honest I misread the post I responded to a little.
The idea however wasnt to belittle fab's work, but rather to question the, "goose, not gander" mentality.
The porting/development distinction was me dismissing the idea that porting things doesnt require actual development (especially larger software lacking any sort of exec/intuition/etc codepaths/support). In fact its probably easier at times to borrow code for "original" software than to port existing software. Not that I have to tell you this Im sure. Merely for the sake of clarification.
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So, getting back to topic...
Not bothered about having a new board? Peg2 - best all-rounder, most stable G4 board, has altivec.
Just to test compatibillity/play around with as a curiosity? Sam440
As an AmigaOS4.x main machine at a reasonable** price? Sam460
As a dual-booting useful Linux workstation capable of doing some real number crunching/high memory applications, which also runs AmigaOS4.x? X1000
This is a pretty good summary/overview :)
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Yeah I realise that and fab has created a nice browser, and to be honest I misread the post I responded to a little.
The idea however wasnt to belittle fab's work, but rather to question the, "goose, not gander" mentality.
The porting/development distinction was me dismissing the idea that porting things doesnt require actual development (especially larger software lacking any sort of exec/intuition/etc codepaths/support). In fact its probably easier at times to borrow code for "original" software than to port existing software. Not that I have to tell you this Im sure. Merely for the sake of clarification.
Yet another testy entry into this thread. :roflmao:
And it still comes down to "buy a SAM460 or a PegII".
Oh well, melodrama is our forte.
Popcorn anyone?
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@fishy_fiz
WebKit is ported (and many other libraries) but the browser is developed on MorphOS.
Anyone ever use a straight port of Webkit?
I've tried it on my Mac and its dreadful.
Odyssey is definitely more than just Webkit.
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Well, they've pretty much all been covered already. Using a HW video decoder (Radeon HD cards have one) would be the best solution, but it's a huge job. Another option would be waiting for Gallium3D to be available, and updating video players to use custom shaders. Next is textured video, which uses the GPU to render YUV bitmaps straight to screen. It essentially does the same job as the Gallium3D option, but is easier to use (no need to set up custom OpenGL shaders). Finally, while Radeon HD cards don't have overlay hardware, it could probably be emulated. However, that would be more complicated than textured video, and be far less flexible.
Full screen too, although the video might not completely fill the screen. In the case of a 720p video, it matches a 1280x720 screen perfectly, so it does completely fill the screen.
Hans
Thanks for the summary Hans. :)