Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Minuous on February 19, 2014, 11:44:46 PM
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Some lamer phone company is infringing Hyperion's AmigaOS trademark with their so-called "AmigoOS" operating system:
http://www.gsmarena.com/gionee_elife_s55_is_the_thinnest_smartphone_in_the_world-news-7859.php
Has this been brought to Hyperion's attention? IANAL, but it look to me like a clear case of trademark infringement, in the same way Lindows was deemed to be an infringement of the Windows trademark. There's a requirement to defend trademarks in situations such as this or they become diluted and eventually invalid.
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@Minuous
i seriously doubt they'd care. but nonetheless -- let's wait for number6's official reading on the situation. he's usually the expert around here on the legal shennaigans surrounding The Great and Holy Name. :)
-- eliyahu
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@Minuous
i seriously doubt they'd care. but nonetheless -- let's wait for number6's official reading on the situation. he's usually the expert around here on the legal shennaigans surrounding The Great and Holy Name. :)
-- eliyahu
Nice Interception!:razz:
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It doesn't matter whether they care about this particular instance, it may still need to be defended. Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark: "In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use". It is not necessary for a trademark owner to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential. This is designed to prevent owners from continually being tied up in litigation for fear of cancellation."
So the crucial question seems to be whether this is a "minor and inconsequential" breach. Given that the device will be released in 41 countries and seems to be getting a lot of press attention my opinion is that is a major breach.
My reading of the Settlement Agreement suggests that Hyperion are supposed to notify Amino who then have 25-day window of opportunity to take action against the infringer; if Amino decline to take action then Hyperion may do so.
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It doesn't matter whether they care about this particular instance, it may still need to be defended. Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark: "In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use". It is not necessary for a trademark owner to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential. This is designed to prevent owners from continually being tied up in litigation for fear of cancellation."
So the crucial question seems to be whether this is a "minor and inconsequential" breach. Given that the device will be released in 41 countries and seems to be getting a lot of press attention my opinion is that is a major breach.
My reading of the Settlement Agreement suggests that Hyperion are supposed to notify Amino who then have 25-day window of opportunity to take action against the infringer; if Amino decline to take action then Hyperion may do so.
That is still the process as of today.
#6
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A competitor who uses a trademark that is confusingly similar to an existing trademark can be prevented from doing so by the application of trademark law based on the "likelihood of confusion".
In determining likelihood of confusion, courts evaluate several factors. No one factor is determinative in and of itself, and how important one factor is over another is very case specific. The factors are:
-Whether or not the goods or services using the same mark compete with one another. Marks that are used on similar or related goods or services are more likely to confuse consumers as to the source of those goods or services. Even where the plaintiff's products are not exactly similar, the court may in some cases consider how likely the plaintiff is in the future to sell similar products.
-Whether or not the goods or services are so closely related that they are being marketed through the same stores or channels of distribution.
-Whether or not the alleged infringer intended to trick consumers in order to "cash in" on the plaintiff's business good will.
-Whether the marks are similar in appearance, phonetic sound, or meaning.
-How careful the consumer is likely to be prior to purchasing. The more sophisticated the consumer (e.g. business owners versus children), or the more expensive the product, then the more discriminating the consumer is expected to be, and the less likely confusion will be attributed to them).
-Whether or not the companies are accessing overlapping customer bases. If the companies both sell largely to senior citizens, to teachers, or to home-based business owners, there is more likely to be consumer confusion.
-The legal strength of each of the marks. The greater the public recognition of a mark as a source identifier, the more likely that similar uses will be confusing.
-Whether there has been any actual confusion. If so, this is not conclusive evidence of likelihood of confusion, but must be weighed together with the other factors.
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It's Amigo OS. male. Amiga OS is female. Maybe they should get together and produce some offspring.
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@Lionheart:
I'd say "yes" to most of these points, and "possibly" to the others. So they would have a strong case.
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"Amiga" and "Amigo" are two different words. I see nothing to get excited about, and good luck making a legal case out of it.
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So are Lindows and Windows; there is no need for them to be identical.
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First, Amiga and Amigo are two different words so there is no likelihood for confusion. The Amiga is a retro operating system, that no one in consumer technology space knows even exists anymore except for us few.
There is no likelihood for confusion because the Amigo OS is bundled with a phone that no one believes is an Amiga. But I concede that if they named the phone AmigoOne THEN, Bill and Darren have a right that they could huff and puff a little but the likelihood of a lawsuit. Well you have to have money lawsuits are expensive.
Lets face it, Amiga Inc and their products are not for retail order but are sold through the web. Will they overlap each other? All technology overlaps one another but for those that want a portable Amiga. Well, Amiga Inc and Hyperion have not been able to market a portable product. I personally dont see a case but I think Hyperion and Amiga Inc have better things they could spend their remaining funds on rather than engaging in a lawsuit that will probably outlive both companies.
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Lead Developer: Black Lab Linux http://www.blacklablinux.org
Lead Developer: Ami/LX http://amilx.blogspot.com
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Some lamer phone company is infringing Hyperion's AmigaOS trademark with their so-called "AmigoOS" operating system:
http://www.gsmarena.com/gionee_elife_s55_is_the_thinnest_smartphone_in_the_world-news-7859.php
Has this been brought to Hyperion's attention? IANAL, but it look to me like a clear case of trademark infringement, in the same way Lindows was deemed to be an infringement of the Windows trademark. There's a requirement to defend trademarks in situations such as this or they become diluted and eventually invalid.
No its Amigo OS ... You did it more with Blue Balls.
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I would like to see Hyperion try to "do something" about this - then get crushed in court by more lawyers than there are OS4 users.
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Lets face it, Amiga Inc and their products are not for retail order but are sold through the web. Will they overlap each other? All technology overlaps one another but for those that want a portable Amiga. Well, Amiga Inc and Hyperion have not been able to market a portable product. I personally dont see a case but I think Hyperion and Amiga Inc have better things they could spend their remaining funds on rather than engaging in a lawsuit that will probably outlive both companies.
I take it that Amiga Inc is still up for sale?
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I take it that Amiga Inc is still up for sale?
just ask the source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=758479&postcount=16)
#6
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just ask the source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=758479&postcount=16)
#6
Too much effort, lol. Since that law firm is involved, I'm going to take a wild guess and say it still hasn't been sold yet.
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It's Amigo OS. male. Amiga OS is female. Maybe they should get together and produce some offspring.
:lol:
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First, Amiga and Amigo are two different words so there is no likelihood for confusion. The Amiga is a retro operating system, that no one in consumer technology space knows even exists anymore except for us few.
You sure? Try typing "Amigo OS" into Google... Google's sure you meant "AmigaOS." Google seems to be confused. ;)
Hans
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First, Amiga and Amigo are two different words so there is no likelihood for confusion.
So if my nick was RobertJDöhnert there would be no likelihood for confusion? After all they are two different words.
The Amiga is a retro operating system, that no one in consumer technology space knows even exists anymore except for us few.
AmigaOS 1.x and 2.x are retro, arguably 3.x is too, but certainly not 4.x. And I think there is considerable awareness of the Amiga brand; Amino's business is based on the Amiga name which is their only real asset, and a lawsuit was fought over the AmigaOS trademark so it must have some value. Plus this phone company must think it has some value or they wouldn't be bothering to rip it off.
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There seems to only need to be a perceived link to brand usage. Eg: bskyb and skydrive.
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It's Amigo OS. male. Amiga OS is female. Maybe they should get together and produce some offspring.
NinaOS? BratOS? TwerpOS? BastardOS? :D
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AmigaOS 1.x and 2.x are retro, arguably 3.x is too, but certainly not 4.x.
Single-core aware only/32-bit only OSes are decidedly "retro".
Also your use of the phrase "ripping them off" is adorable.
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Single-core aware only/32-bit only OSes are decidedly "retro".
Only if you're a tech junkie. Lots of people are still using 32-bit systems, and there's still a good number of P4s out in the field, only about half of which have SMT.
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Single-core aware only/32-bit only OSes are decidedly "retro".
Retro would be painting something that was once was socially the norm. IMNSHO, "irrelevant" would be a far better description then "retro."
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Single-core aware only/32-bit only OSes are decidedly "retro".
Windows 7 Starter, that came preinstalled on my brand new netbook less than a year ago, is a retro OS then!?
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Retro would be painting something that was once was socially the norm. IMNSHO, "irrelevant" would be a far better description then "retro."
So irrelevant you are obsessed with the topic.
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So irrelevant you are obsessed with the topic.
Oh my, looks like I just stepped on someone's toes.
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It's Amigo OS. male. Amiga OS is female. Maybe they should get together and produce some offspring.
:D
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It's Amigo OS. male. Amiga OS is female. Maybe they should get together and produce some offspring.
Amigi OS? I don`t mind it as long as we reach magic number 5.0 :smack:
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Hello All,
Would like to see Hyperion take these people to court! HA HA
http://www.amigonefuneralhome.com/
Thanks in advance,
Merv Stent
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Do we talk about chinese market?
What impact has Hyperion on chinese market, especially on mobile market, and do they have trademarks registered in china?
Legal actions against them would be fighting like a kid that is spitting at a box champion.
Is AmigaOS registered for mobile devices too?
Well, they may try to walk the SCO way, sueing them annoyingly, for being bought as part of an agreement outside the court.
SCO failed.:D
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Oooooo, a possible trademark violation in China? Who'd a thought?
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Unless you are really big, a Trademark only covers certain industries, the ones you are actively producing products in. An Amiga washing machine would not be covered by Amiga Inc's trademark, but of course a toaster might....
But if you are well known and have good lawyers then it's different. A Microsoft Washing Machine would be hit by so many lawyers it's head would be in a permanent spin cycle....
Hello All,
Would like to see Hyperion take these people to court! HA HA
http://www.amigonefuneralhome.com/
Thanks in advance,
Merv Stent
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Some lamer phone company is infringing Hyperion's AmigaOS trademark with their so-called "AmigoOS" operating system:
http://www.gsmarena.com/gionee_elife_s55_is_the_thinnest_smartphone_in_the_world-news-7859.php
Has this been brought to Hyperion's attention? IANAL, but it look to me like a clear case of trademark infringement, in the same way Lindows was deemed to be an infringement of the Windows trademark. There's a requirement to defend trademarks in situations such as this or they become diluted and eventually invalid.
LOL, that 'lamer' phone company is probably making more money than HYPErion could ever dream of...
Really, who cares?
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I'll wait and see, if the "lame" phone maker (first tier luxury cell phone producer in the east) strikes back, take legal action against pitifull nameless os maker, and force them to change AmigaOS into something less "infringing" like HyperOS. Yeeeks, i gonna p my pants if this is gonna happen. :roflmao:
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Do we talk about chinese market?
It's being released in 40 other countries, not just China.
SCO failed.
I don't see any connection at all between this situation and the SCO case, wasn't the SCO case largely or entirely about copyright infringement, not trademarks? Plus of course their case was very weak and the case here is very strong.
I'll wait and see, if the "lame" phone maker (first tier luxury cell phone producer in the east) strikes back, take legal action against pitifull nameless os maker, and force them to change AmigaOS into something less "infringing" like HyperOS.
Yes, unfortunately that's a possible scenario in the future if Amino/Hyperion fail to defend the trademark.
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Why are so many hell-bent on seing Hyperion fail?
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It's being released in 40 other countries, not just China.
If you don't find a way to stop a company in their homeland, you have to take legal actions against infringement in every country, one by one.
I've started investigating to find out the current owner of an AmigaOS related trademark. Let' start in the U.S.A.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:i46rnk.6.14
That's the only information regarding the U.S., and ....
... IT'S DEAD, JIM !!
Well, does anyone knows anything about the remaining 39 countries? :D
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Why are so many hellbend on seing Hyperion fail?
No one wants to see them fail. It's you not getting the joke behind all that.
Remember that, despite X1000 and OS4, the only continued products branded "AMIGA" are :
-legal actions
-copyright claims
-announcements
-restarts
-vapourware
-smoke and mirrors.
Before you take this too serious, help me finding registered trademarks in 40 countries, that belongs to any of the mentionend companies. ;)
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If you don't find a way to stop a company in their homeland, you have to take legal actions against infringement in every country, one by one.
I've started investigating to find out the current owner of an AmigaOS related trademark. Let' start in the U.S.A.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:i46rnk.6.14
That's the only information regarding the U.S., and ....
... IT'S DEAD, JIM !!
Well, does anyone knows anything about the remaining 39 countries? :D
http://aminet.net/search?query=trademark
This is in need of an update, but you'll find it a good place to start.
Beyond that we have trademark attorneys pop in to Amigaworld to post, and a search of that site should give you more info.
one example from 2012 (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35732&forum=2)
#6
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No one wants to see them fail.
I wish that were so, but on this forum there are many people who want exactly that.
The more Amigalike OSes there are the stronger we all are, but still the forums are full of sniping and attacking... it's a real shame.
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I've been waiting four whole years for Bill and Ben to sue me in the Iranian courts for trademark infringement. ;)
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I wish that were so, but on this forum there are many people who want exactly that.
The more Amigalike OSes there are the stronger we all are, but still the forums are full of sniping and attacking... it's a real shame.
That would be the case had Hyperion not completely changed the API in OS4.
Porting between 68k Amiga OS, AROS and MorphOS is quite straightforward but from OS4 to the others is a PITA.
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Now things are getting silly
http://www.aminocom.com/products/aminet-a140/
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So are Lindows and Windows; there is no need for them to be identical.
This isn't how the Lindows vs Windows went down anyhow. Microsoft lost that case, and then basically paid them to change the name to Linspire.
"In 2002 Microsoft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft) sued Lindows, Inc. claiming the name Lindows constituted an infringement of their Windows trademark. Microsoft's claims were rejected by the court, which asserted that Microsoft had used the term windows to describe graphical user interfaces before the Windows product was ever released, and that the windowing technique had already been implemented by Xerox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox) and Apple Computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer) many years before.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindows#cite_note-7) Microsoft sought a retrial and after this was postponed in February 2004,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindows#cite_note-8) offered to settle the case. As part of the licensing settlement, Microsoft paid an estimated $20 million, and Lindows, Inc. transferred the Lindows trademark to Microsoft and changed its name to Linspire, Inc.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindows#cite_note-9)" - From Wikipedia.
slaapliedje
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I wish that were so, but on this forum there are many people who want exactly that.
The more Amigalike OSes there are the stronger we all are, but still the forums are full of sniping and attacking... it's a real shame.
It would be at least a little ironic because it was Hyperion who defended "Amiga" against anyone with the intention to use it like AROS or the famous Commodore CUSA who were not allowed to use "Amiga" in conjunction with AROS. There are even some people who only supports it because it is called "AmigaOS".
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Wasn't it CommodoreUSA who was after people using the amiga name?
I seem to remember the Daddy being told to remove any reference to amiga in, at least, one video.
And didn't Aros change the meaning of aros before they were told to?
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Wasn't it CommodoreUSA who was after people using the amiga name?
I seem to remember the Daddy being told to remove any reference to amiga in, at least, one video.
And didn't Aros change the meaning of aros before they were told to?
From what I have read recently the change of the meaning happened to avoid a attack of Hyperion even though the AROS people had the permission to use it in this context before. But that was before the time I rejoined. AROS will stay AROS whatever happens, the same for MorphOS. And the 68k people do not care anyway. I think the biggest problems would it be for the AmigaOS fans.
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I thought it was because of CommodoreUSA, but in any case, I do think it's okay to defend your rights.
And if Aros did have permission to use the amiga name, then no one can blame Hyperion, CommodoreUSA or any one else for that matter.
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I thought it was because of CommodoreUSA, but in any case, I do think it's okay to defend your rights.
And if Aros did have permission to use the amiga name, then no one can blame Hyperion, CommodoreUSA or any one else for that matter.
I do not really care about if the "A" in AROS can be used as synonym for "Amiga" or not. But of course you could "blame" Hyperion in this context because they were the reason for the change. If a organisation with money would have been behind AROS it would propably been much more difficult to "defend their rights" how you call it. But as I said if someone can use "Amiga" or not will not decide about the future.
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Wasn't it CommodoreUSA who was after people using the amiga name?
I seem to remember the Daddy being told to remove any reference to amiga in, at least, one video.
And didn't Aros change the meaning of aros before they were told to?
Yes. They changed the name because of the lawsuit between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion VOF which was filed about a month earlier.
Due to the recent legal turmoil between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion, the Amiga reference is going to be removed from the AROS' name.
Source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3749)
#6
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In any case, if you have trademarks and copyrights you need to defend them, that is usual business. Of you don't defend them you might loose them.
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In any case, if you have trademarks and copyrights you need to defend them, that is usual business. Of you don't defend them you might loose them.
at the moment nobody really has the trademark. "Amiga" is a trademark of AmigaInc. (whatever behind this still is) and not Hyperion. They own "AmigaOS" and "AmigaOne" as far as I know. They only have a court agreement with AmigaInc. and go against everyone on that base. "If" there would be someone with more money than Hyperion and AmigaInc. entering the trademark battle it would be interesting to see what happens.
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at the moment nobody really has the trademark. "Amiga" is a trademark of AmigaInc. (whatever behind this still is) and not Hyperion. They own "AmigaOS" and "AmigaOne" as far as I know. They only have a court agreement with AmigaInc. and go against everyone on that base. "If" there would be someone with more money than Hyperion and AmigaInc. entering the trademark battle it would be interesting to see what happens.
I've posted "whatever behind this still is" several times.
It's simpy the attorney of record - Darren Cohen.
#6
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Why are so many hellbend on seing Hyperion fail?
A mixture of tribal politics and pure badness!
On the one hand you have decent Amigan's that support all of the OS flavors and if they don't then go on about their business and wont bother anyone else.
On the other hand you have the minority of bitter individuals, usually its the same names that will trawl through every related thread twisting and spitting venom as they go. :(
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A mixture of tribal politics and pure badness!
On the one hand you have decent Amigan's that support all of the OS flavors and if they don't then go on about their business and wont bother anyone else.
On the other hand you have the minority of bitter individuals, usually its the same names that will trawl through every related thread twisting and spitting venom as they go. :(
i found a lot of the threads with Hyperion (Ben Hermans) or the Frieden brothers where I thought "Was that response really necessary?". And I do not even talk about the typcial red vs. blue battle. So they are partly certainly not innocent about the polarisation. For me personal it is not that important who uses the "Amiga" trademark finally. I would have preferred it that it would be used by the different camps (as long as it has still some recognition and thus value) because all are based on the same heritage and API. But this will not happen. So i only look at it from the outside. The faith of a platform is not decided by the trademark but by its features, hardware it runs on, price and software that is available.
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I think it was a cowardly move to remove the word amiga from AROS.
First of all its a completely free and open source project. No monies are being made from AROS.
That alone would stop silly billy or anyone else from suing. Its absolutely ridiculous to allow the amiga grave robbers to scare everyone into removing the word amiga from AROS. Ridiculousness.
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I've posted "whatever behind this still is" several times.
It's simpy the attorney of record - Darren Cohen.
#6
One person? (attorney)
Thanx for info
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I think it was a cowardly move to remove the word amiga from AROS.
First of all its a completely free and open source project. No monies are being made from AROS.
That alone would stop silly billy or anyone else from suing. Its absolutely ridiculous to allow the amiga grave robbers to scare everyone into removing the word amiga from AROS. Ridiculousness.
Not that it matters, but when the threat did come, it came from Ben Hermans, not Bill McEwen...and in view of the public.
Source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32323&forum=16&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0)
But since the settlement agreement was at the root and included both parties, you could give each of them 1/2 credit. Heh.
#6
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It's Amigo OS. male. Amiga OS is female. Maybe they should get together and produce some offspring.
If we transition to Italian, we could call the result BambinOS. :)
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If we transition to Italian, we could call the result BambinOS. :)
nickname "Bambini" :-)
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Wasn't it CommodoreUSA who was after people using the amiga name?
I seem to remember the Daddy being told to remove any reference to amiga in, at least, one video.
And didn't Aros change the meaning of aros before they were told to?
Yes, they did that to Daddy. Big holders of no name.
AROS ditched from Amiga Research to just AROS to avoid such assess.
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Yes, they did that to Daddy. Big holders of no name.
AROS ditched from Amiga Research to just AROS to avoid such assess.
they did that on the base of a contract with this one-person company. But also Hyperion has threatened in the past so both Hyperion and AmigaInc. defend the "Amiga trademark" and try to hinder other persons/companies to use it. But in the end the trademark will not decide the faith.
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The worse part is, the ones who 'own' the Amiga trademark are the ones that have the least amount of hardware their Operating System can run on.
AROS obviously runs on the most,
MorphOS the second most,
68k Classics arguably have more hardware available than OS4 does!
It's too bad that all camps just can't get along and try to bring the Amiga back a bit more to the mainstream, but I don't think that could ever happen now, the best chance it had was probably when Gateway had it, but I don't even know if Gateway computers are even around anymore...
slaapliedje
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The worse part is, the ones who 'own' the Amiga trademark are the ones that have the least amount of hardware their Operating System can run on.
AROS obviously runs on the most,
MorphOS the second most,
68k Classics arguably have more hardware available than OS4 does!
It's too bad that all camps just can't get along and try to bring the Amiga back a bit more to the mainstream, but I don't think that could ever happen now, the best chance it had was probably when Gateway had it, but I don't even know if Gateway computers are even around anymore...
slaapliedje
I wrote that I would prefer that too (that it can be used by all camps) but that will not happen because the status quo is preferred by both AmigaInc and Hyperion compared to all camps using the trademark.
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The worse part is, the ones who 'own' the Amiga trademark are the ones that have the least amount of hardware their Operating System can run on.
AROS obviously runs on the most,
MorphOS the second most,
68k Classics arguably have more hardware available than OS4 does!
It's too bad that all camps just can't get along and try to bring the Amiga back a bit more to the mainstream, but I don't think that could ever happen now, the best chance it had was probably when Gateway had it, but I don't even know if Gateway computers are even around anymore...
slaapliedje
The problem is often with the words chosen to express the facts. We hear "rights" not "IP Owner"
worth a look as an example (http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=30303&forum=2&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0#719226)
You could ask old timers what their read is concerning ACER I guess.
#6
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they did that on the base of a contract with this one-person company. But also Hyperion has threatened in the past so both Hyperion and AmigaInc. defend the "Amiga trademark" and try to hinder other persons/companies to use it. But in the end the trademark will not decide the faith.
And it was Hyperion that sent a nastygram about any licensed Amiga system by C=USA that had a clone of OS4 on it would violate their agreement with AI.
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Well I do think it is fairly obvious that different OS's can't have the same name.
And also, after the long legal battle Hyperion had, and all the money used on it, they should defend their rights. If not, it would have been a waste of time and money.
Obviously they do defend it, if not, a guy like Black Lab Linux could have kept using the amiga name. Thankfully that was stopped.
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one way or the other im not sure if x86 with aros being an official amiga lineup would have satisfied the most of existing user base [of amiga(-noid) ng alternatives]. especially, it seems most (beyond occasional) users i hear of gather on mos rather than os4 or aros side.
one thing i just wonder is that, being well informed, remembering and apparently rather un-biased, number6 had need an amigaone system donated to take part of amiga forums again. pure sentiment?
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Well I do think it is fairly obvious that different OS's can't have the same name.
at least me, i dont care..
And also, after the long legal battle Hyperion had, and all the money used on it, they should defend their rights. If not, it would have been a waste of time and money.
their own damn business. any of us have sure seen stranger than having a full ip at disposal, going open and that for a good reason. im not trying to tell that this strategy should be applied, no matter what. still, im not sure what is the current gain except on running (apparently) occasional hardware sales.
Obviously they do defend it, if not, a guy like Black Lab Linux could have kept using the amiga name. Thankfully that was stopped.
as if it was any worse, the way its now. and also, the guy does still pop up now and then. if the trademark has ever been violated for good, maybe the dumb discussion about legitimacy would have effectively _stopped_ in the end, giving way for something not as legitimate but future proof, for those who want it. alas, it takes some mind to realize..
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at least me, i dont care..
Maybe you don't, but it would be rather confusing having different OS's like Linux distros and what no, all named amigaos, but with no other similarity.
as if it was any worse, the way its now. and also, the guy does still pop up now and then. if the trademark has ever been violated for good, maybe the dumb discussion about legitimacy would have effectively _stopped_ in the end, giving way for something not as legitimate but future proof, for those who want it. alas, it takes some mind to realize..
?
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http://www.os4online.com/
When was that stopped? They are still calling their linux distro os4.X
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Sorry they call it os4 : openlinux.
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At least here in germany, "Amiga OS" is a valid trademark. Date of expiration is Nov-31-2015.
Registered owner: Amiga Inc. NY, N.Y.
Registered to everything from paper press media to development of hardware and software, computers, calculators, modems, etc.
Amiga as trademark has expired.
Amiga as pictured text is registered. Looks like in attached file.
Battleground 1 found for "likeness". Not an infringement!
Still 39 missing. :roflmao:
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Sorry they call it os4 : openlinux.
He posted in the forum off the amiga.org front page today, as per how amiga.org wishes to treat such topics.
#6
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http://www.pc-opensystems.com/p/trademark-and-copyright-information.html
According to this black lab linux has an os4 trademark registered...
:crazy:
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http://news.softpedia.com/news/Patent-Trolls-Kill-OS-4-OpenLinux-the-Black-Lab-Linux-Distro-Is-Born-402468.shtml
Oops looks like they did drop calling it os4...
Interesting.
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Actually, they didnt stop me. I stopped myself because I realized what an incredible dead end it was. Sure, I could have cashed in on nostalgia but seeing how Amiga Inc and Hyperion had abused and misrepresented the brand it was a dead end. Could I rebuild A brand called Amiga? Sure but that would take a lot of effort, money, and time. And in order to be totally independant of the screwball that represent AmigaOS now, I would have to wait for both companies to die and as long as they just have enough to keep a domain name and a post office box, then I would be associated with them and both would have to be gone to establish disassociation.
AmigaOS, AmigaOne are eligible for trademark, they are unique descriptors. You cannot trademark generic terms or generic objects, like a checkered ball. Used all over the place, the word Amiga is a generic term for female friend, you cant trademark that and besides in the US the trademarks are dead and they would be invalidated.
I have offered Mr. Cohen and Mr. Hermans ample oppurtunity to go to court with me and lets put it to the test, as of yet they are unwilling to do that.
Go ahead and shake your chains, make your claims. Its not going to change the facts. You are free to live in whatever alternate reality you would like.
Well I do think it is fairly obvious that different OS's can't have the same name.
And also, after the long legal battle Hyperion had, and all the money used on it, they should defend their rights. If not, it would have been a waste of time and money.
Obviously they do defend it, if not, a guy like Black Lab Linux could have kept using the amiga name. Thankfully that was stopped.
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and windows is a genetic term for things made of glass in houses, cars and so on, yet I bet you would never try to use that term to describe your Linux distro
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Why not go and make Apple Linux too? :)
And you could have a special version called Apple Macintosh (Macintosh is used generically for an item of rainwear).
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lol. yeah. what a load of nothing..
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the word Amiga is a generic term for female friend, you cant trademark that and besides in the US the trademarks are dead and they would be invalidated.
And Apple is a generic term for a type of fruit, your point is?
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Actually, they didnt stop me. I stopped myself because I realized what an incredible dead end it was. Sure, I could have cashed in on nostalgia but seeing how Amiga Inc and Hyperion had abused and misrepresented the brand it was a dead end. Could I rebuild A brand called Amiga? Sure but that would take a lot of effort, money, and time. And in order to be totally independant of the screwball that represent AmigaOS now, I would have to wait for both companies to die and as long as they just have enough to keep a domain name and a post office box, then I would be associated with them and both would have to be gone to establish disassociation.
AmigaOS, AmigaOne are eligible for trademark, they are unique descriptors. You cannot trademark generic terms or generic objects, like a checkered ball. Used all over the place, the word Amiga is a generic term for female friend, you cant trademark that and besides in the US the trademarks are dead and they would be invalidated.
I have offered Mr. Cohen and Mr. Hermans ample oppurtunity to go to court with me and lets put it to the test, as of yet they are unwilling to do that.
Go ahead and shake your chains, make your claims. Its not going to change the facts. You are free to live in whatever alternate reality you would like.
Its not your call. In fact, YOU ARE another case of abuse.
Where is PPC Linux?
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and windows is a genetic term for things made of glass in houses, cars and so on, yet I bet you would never try to use that term to describe your Linux distro
We ported a GUI to our 68K based systems that we sold in the '80 and '90s called GWindows without an issue with Microsoft.
XWindows has been around forever.
As the name "Windows" itself is taken, of course you can't use it (unless you are really selling windows).
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Why not go and make Apple Linux too? :)
And you could have a special version called Apple Macintosh (Macintosh is used generically for an item of rainwear).
I realize that's a joke, but just to be clear, there are categories.
For example: AMIGA - Serial Number - 78639666 is for
"Bathtubs and whirlpool baths"
#6
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I realize that's a joke, but just to be clear, there are categories.
For example: AMIGA - Serial Number - 78639666 is for
"Bathtubs and whirlpool baths"
#6
Exactly. And this was the major cause of trouble between Apple Computer and Apple Corps, because they had an agreement that Apple Computer would never distribute music.. so when iTunes was made, Apple Corps (understandably) took umbrage. Equally the record label "Amiga" (it's a German record label) never had a problem from Commodore or Amiga Inc as the two were in separate markets.
But then you knew that already, I'm sure. :)
Having two platforms with the same name "Amiga" would never be allowed, though.
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Exactly. And this was the major cause of trouble between Apple Computer and Apple Corps, because they had an agreement that Apple Computer would never distribute music.. so when iTunes was made, Apple Corps (understandably) took umbrage. Equally the record label "Amiga" (it's a German record label) never had a problem from Commodore or Amiga Inc as the two were in separate markets.
But then you knew that already, I'm sure. :)
Having two platforms with the same name "Amiga" would never be allowed, though.
Indeed, but not being a trademark attorney I do have a question about another aspect....use.
Example:Amiga Inc. ended up using AmigaOne. Let's dismiss the notion that constitutes "use" of the trademark, since court has since decided AmigaOne is not Amiga.
The Amiga license to IContain was revoked and product cleared out on Alibaba. The Amiga license to CommodoreUSA for the Mini resulted also in product which never really saw an actual distribution.
That one is still funny since Amiga Games Inc. who are simply NOT Amiga Inc. claim the mini as part of their history.
"Use" is a factor in holding on to trademark, from my basic readings anyway.
If you discount the above, can you post a list of Amiga branded products here during the entire time of trademark registration by Amiga Inc.? I'm curious...
#6
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I'd be interested to see that list too (I don't know, myself). The only ones I can think of off-hand are "AmigaDE" and "AmigaAnywhere"....
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I'd be interested to see that list too (I don't know, myself). The only ones I can think of off-hand are "AmigaDE" and "AmigaAnywhere"....
Just "Amiga" please, since the other trademarks are well covered in cgutjahr's trademark .pdf that I linked to.
#6
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http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:kynwu9.2.8 (http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:kynwu9.2.8)
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:kynwu9.2.12 (http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:kynwu9.2.12)
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the word Amiga is a generic term for female friend, you cant trademark that
That is obviously completely wrong, as Amiga was a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, etc. for many years.
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@Minuous I think he is just pissed that he couldn't call his linux distro for amiga.
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@Minuous I think he is just pissed that he couldn't call his linux distro for amiga.
LAmiga? :D
slaapliedje
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That is obviously completely wrong, as Amiga was a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, etc. for many years.
And that is completely wrong, because trademarks to Amiga as computer system, electronics, calculator etc has expired long ago.
There is no such trademark, at least not worldwide.
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@persia
You can't link to uspto searches directly, that's why i added a screenshot.
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@persia
You can't link to uspto searches directly, that's why i added a screenshot.
Basically the trademark Amiga for computers is alive and registered to Amiga Inc Delaware and Commodore USA. Since CUSA is dead and it's the wrong AI, it will be interesting if they can be renewed.
Amiga Inc is still producing something computer related, games for Blackberry, so they likely meet the activity requirement....
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Would have been nice if we could get some investor to snag the Amiga trademark and give it to the community so anyone could use it.
But then that's just not the way it worked out. The Atari community is a lot better off in that regard, where I think most of the software bits on top of TOS was basically open sourced, and for the TOS bits, they've been reverse engineered easily with Emu-TOS. Would have been interesting if that'd happened to the AmigaOS, or even a lot of the parts of it. I know some libraries have been recreated, and there is AROS. Anyhow, just kind of a mini-rant.
slaapliedje
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Basically the trademark Amiga for computers is alive and registered to Amiga Inc Delaware and Commodore USA. Since CUSA is dead and it's the wrong AI, it will be interesting if they can be renewed.
Amiga Inc is still producing something computer related, games for Blackberry, so they likely meet the activity requirement....
well, in Europe it's dead already, as i told before.
In the U.S. it is even more dead, all trademarks concerning Amiga and Amiga Inc. represented by attorney D.Cohen are abandoned.
See attached results from USPTO.
There is no such thing as "Amiga" for computers, but for bathtubes and shoes :D.
And i don't care what Amiga Inc. is currently producing or "licensing" or co-operating. To me, it's all FUD. :destroy:
(http://abload.de/thumb/amiga_trademark396qrt.png) (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amiga_trademark396qrt.png)
(http://abload.de/thumb/amiga_trademark2wiplw.png) (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amiga_trademark2wiplw.png)
(http://abload.de/thumb/amiga_trademark16orw7.png) (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amiga_trademark16orw7.png)
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Basically the trademark Amiga for computers is alive and registered to Amiga Inc Delaware and Commodore USA. Since CUSA is dead and it's the wrong AI, it will be interesting if they can be renewed.
Amiga Inc is still producing something computer related, games for Blackberry, so they likely meet the activity requirement....
Not that it changes the fact that the casual observer sees no activity, technically CommodoreUSA LLC and Amiga Inc. are listed as "inactive", not dissolved.
This would mean they still pay taxes, file necessary paperwork, and could be involved in talks with most anyone.
Hmmm...actually this report indicates "active"
Source (http://experian.alacrastore.com/storecontent/experianus/COMMODORE-USA-LLC-931540176)
#6
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Hmmm...actually this report indicates "active"
Source (http://experian.alacrastore.com/storecontent/experianus/COMMODORE-USA-LLC-931540176)
#6
I just checked State of Florida records and it was:
Last Event ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT
Event Date Filed 09/27/2013
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I just checked State of Florida records and it was:
Last Event ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT
Event Date Filed 09/27/2013
In reality dead as dudo. Administration is always late to life.
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So Dammy any of the X64s still available or were they all shipped off to Italy?
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So Dammy any of the X64s still available or were they all shipped off to Italy?
No clue, I never asked that question to Leo.
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I'm guessing they sold less than 100 c64x's during the products life cycle. They were underpowered and overpriced. Also the C64 case is pretty ugly by today's standards. That's why Commodore switched to the white design in the late 1980's.
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I'm guessing they sold less than 100 c64x's during the products life cycle.
You have guessed wrong.
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You have guessed wrong.
We'll they didn't sell enough to keep a viable business going.
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We'll they didn't sell enough to keep a viable business going.
C=USA closed because of Barry's death and the family did not want to continue it. Had Barry survived his cancer, you would be shocked to see what Barry had arranged after a specific law suit was finished (final judgement was Dec of 2013).
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So tell us. Barry's dead, the company liquidated, it does no harm to anyone to disclose what plans Barry had.
C=USA closed because of Barry's death and the family did not want to continue it. Had Barry survived his cancer, you would be shocked to see what Barry had arranged after a specific law suit was finished (final judgement was Dec of 2013).
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So tell us. Barry's dead, the company liquidated, it does no harm to anyone to disclose what plans Barry had.
I was going to release stuff this past December, but someone else (who also knew Barry) might be attempting something so I'm going to hold my tongue on this subject awhile longer. I don't think I should rock any boats right now.
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I just checked State of Florida records and it was:
Last Event ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT
Event Date Filed 09/27/2013
You may have left off an important bit from that source.
Event Effective Date:NONE
If you're curious about what Admin Dissolution concerns from the standpoint of the State of Florida:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/617.1421
#6
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That is obviously completely wrong, as Amiga was a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, etc. for many years.
Actually, it was Commodore Amiga, two words that met the criteria. Commodore Amiga is not generic, Amiga is.
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oh boy dammy, new commodore amiga grave robbers making plans.
Get the popcorn.
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I was going to release stuff this past December, but someone else (who also knew Barry) might be attempting something so I'm going to hold my tongue on this subject awhile longer. I don't think I should rock any boats right now.
CommodoreUSA plans are always super secret it seems. A viable business would have survived Barry's death. Steve Jobs died and Apple didn't miss a beat. Barry's family didn't continue because there was no sales to justify doing so.
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CommodoreUSA plans are always super secret it seems. A viable business would have survived Barry's death. Steve Jobs died and Apple didn't miss a beat. Barry's family didn't continue because there was no sales to justify doing so.
As long as you're responding to Dammy, I'll point out that he's referring to a lawsuit settled. That would not be CommodoreUSA. That would be Commodore Holdings, the parent company.
I'll refer you to your own forum for that topic:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=757745&postcount=22
#6
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Actually, it was Commodore Amiga, two words that met the criteria. Commodore Amiga is not generic, Amiga is.
No, you are still wrong. The *entire* phrase (quoting from official Amiga documentation, eg. "Using the System Software" manual) is "Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc.".
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No, you are still wrong. The *entire* phrase (quoting from official Amiga documentation, eg. "Using the System Software" manual) is "Amiga is a registered trademark of Commodore-Amiga, Inc.".
Actually, No Im not but none of this matters considering Bill McEwen, nor Ben Hermans has the balls to take me or anyone else to court to try and defend something they know they CANNOT. So, unless you have anything of real substance. Dont call me I'll call YOU.
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This has turned into a redundant argument because NO ONE CARES.
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Actually, No Im not
As everybody with two working brain cells can verify, you're wrong of course (again).
"Amiga" is an active registered trademark in the US, in the category "Typeset (Words/letter/Number)", it was also registered as a standard character mark in 2006 - but the latter registration expired in 2011.
Dont call me I'll call YOU.
Yeah, we noticed.
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BigBenAussie? He's sort of disappeared since CUSA folded. He was close to Barry and likely the only one who shared his vision. But he'd need financial backers.
The X64 was inspired but very niche, ultimately Barry failed to establish a non-niche product.
I was going to release stuff this past December, but someone else (who also knew Barry) might be attempting something so I'm going to hold my tongue on this subject awhile longer. I don't think I should rock any boats right now.
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BigBenAussie? He's sort of disappeared since CUSA folded. He was close to Barry and likely the only one who shared his vision. But he'd need financial backers.
The X64 was inspired but very niche, ultimately Barry failed to establish a non-niche product.
Yeah, they really were too expensive, and the 'Amiga-like' cases were just rebadged cases from one of the HTPC style manufacturers if I recall.
While I didn't necessarily agree with CommodoreUSA's plans, it was kind of sad to see them go, it was just another reminder of Commodore's demise. Similar to the talks of Atari going bankrupt a few years ago. Even though it's no longer the Atari or Commodore we love(d), it's a reminder of what was once great, that faded away.
It still boggles my mind how Apple, that no one I even knew had any of their stuff back in the day, had survived, but yet everyone I know had either Atari or Commodore computers, and they both died out.
As I always say, it seems the worse technology always wins out because it's 'cheap'.
slaapliedje
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So's Apple and Windows, why don't you call your generic Linux theme thing "Apple Windows Linux?"
Actually, it was Commodore Amiga, two words that met the criteria. Commodore Amiga is not generic, Amiga is.
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Amiga, Apple, Windows are what are called "Arbitrary Marks," generic words user for something other than their normal meaning. These marks are legally enforceable. Building a business on a pirated name means you believe your business will never amount to anything worth sueing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_distinctiveness#Arbitrary_marks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_distinctiveness#Arbitrary_marks)
Actually, it was Commodore Amiga, two words that met the criteria. Commodore Amiga is not generic, Amiga is.
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As I always say, it seems the worse technology always wins out because it's 'cheap'.
slaapliedje
Not sure about the single quotes, but Apple never was cheap money-wise.
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Trade mark shmade mark. As long as it's not another PC running another OS with an Amiga logo and name on it, then I don't care. Amiga is dead, only the community is keeping it going so as long as the public image isn't distorted within the main stream, again I don't care.
The last thing I'd like to see is something like a Linux distrobution called Amiga OS 5. Unless it was something along the lines of Amithlon, then I would not moan so much. :)
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Trade mark shmade mark. As long as it's not another PC running another OS with an Amiga logo and name on it, then I don't care. Amiga is dead, only the community is keeping it going so as long as the public image isn't distorted within the main stream, again I don't care.
The last thing I'd like to see is something like a Linux distrobution called Amiga OS 5. Unless it was something along the lines of Amithlon, then I would not moan so much. :)
Let's hope ARIX gets finished soon then. :)