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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Kernel on February 17, 2014, 11:06:50 PM

Title: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Kernel on February 17, 2014, 11:06:50 PM
Ok so not to stir up anything other than a healthy discussion... seeing that there are Zorro based usb, ram, and network cards still being produced, as well as other types of expansion cards like the ACA500 and various accelerator cards and internal ram expansions for the smaller Amigas... the burning question is why hasn't anyone come out with a new video card along the lines of the Picasso IV or better?  I mean, nothing with massive 3D or groundbreaking, just something to fill that gap that is certainly there?

I for one would be interested in a video card for my A3K that provides Picasso IV comparable RTG functionality.

If I am missing something, someone please enlighten me!
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on February 17, 2014, 11:24:29 PM
New graphics cards were among the most asked for items on this thread:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66631

And your answer is... I dunno? I still stand by that it should be possible to build a single-slot solution like the old "Domino" video cards, that were basically just a Zorro-to-ISA-bus adapter, only updated to Zorro-to-PCIe spec (using bridge logic that's already in use on the Mediator), and slap something like an ATI 6570 on there.

Even crummy Amiga video cards are fetching upwards of $200 these days, and high end cards over $500, so there's definitely a market!
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Iggy on February 17, 2014, 11:26:46 PM
The only way to obtain Cirrus Logic GD5446 ICs would be to salvage them from PC video cards.
Can anyone give me the exactly model numbers off a Picasso IV's Cirrus Logic GD5446 IC?
Got it, and I have found some PC cards with this on them.
The Xilinx component is still available from re-sellers as well.
Some of the components are rather rare, but I don't see anything that is impossible to source.

So, who owns the rights to these cards?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: NovaCoder on February 17, 2014, 11:53:09 PM
It's a good idea.

If someone was going to do it, then you'd just go for an FPGA reimplementation, why bother with old PC graphics chips.

You could make a pretty nice card, memory is very fast and cheap these days so you should be able to make something much better than the old stuff.

Why go for P96 though?   CyberGFX has a much better than nasty old P96.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on February 18, 2014, 12:22:28 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;759076
Why go for P96 though? CyberGFX has a much better than nasty old P96.

When you say "old", the latest version of P96 was released in 2011.  I thought CGX stopped development sometime back in the late '90s.  So shouldn't that technically be the other way around?  Also P96 is free.  ;)
 
 Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, feel free to enlighten, LOL.  :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on February 18, 2014, 12:28:30 AM
I would also like this from a personal standpoint, because I've now spent over $500 importing Picasso II's from Europe to try on my A2000 system. :anger:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7457/12601406595_fdb5e56bfc_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Kernel on February 18, 2014, 12:56:01 AM
So anyone here listening that can make this happen?  I mean, I know it's not going to be an overnight thing, but do we need to petition Individual or ElBox or someone else and slap down some cash to get video cards?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: NovaCoder on February 18, 2014, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;759078
When you say "old", the latest version of P96 was released in 2011.  I thought CGX stopped development sometime back in the late '90s.  So shouldn't that technically be the other way around?  Also P96 is free.  ;)
 
 Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, feel free to enlighten, LOL.  :biglaugh:


P96 smells bad and is also know to drink heavily.

The CyberGFX API is much sexier than P96 which only seems to patch OS functions (as far as I know).
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on February 18, 2014, 04:01:53 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;759081
P96 smells bad and is also know to drink heavily.
 
The CyberGFX API is much sexier than P96 which only seems to patch OS functions (as far as I know).

LOL, not the scientific answer I was looking for.  Also I've been known to drink heavily, maybe me and P96 were separated at birth?  :drink:

More seriously, is CyberGFX available for free anywhere, these days?  Not that I have much experience with Amiga graphics libraries, but I have a vague recollection that V3 was released for free sometime back in the mid-'90s, but V4 was still an impossible-to-find commercial release (also dating from sometime in the '90s)?  P96 is the only one still being updated?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: NovaCoder on February 18, 2014, 04:22:47 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;759087
More seriously, is CyberGFX available for free anywhere, these days?  Not that I have much experience with Amiga graphics libraries, but I have a vague recollection that V3 was released for free sometime back in the mid-'90s, but V4 was still an impossible-to-find commercial release (also dating from sometime in the '90s)?  P96 is the only one still being updated?

Unfortunately I don't know much about the history, I'm just looking at it from a Coder's point-of-view.

This is what you can do with CyberGFX :)

[youtube]dDuDfD5yPeo[/youtube]

Anyway to get back on topic, an FPGA based RTG card for Classics would be very cool :)
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on February 18, 2014, 08:07:37 AM
You can sought of with an Elbox expansion and fit a PCI gfx card.
If there is enough demand they might do it. But it sounds like the most difficult of expansions.
Should you ask for more PCI cards plus drivers?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: utri007 on February 18, 2014, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;759099
You can sought of with an Elbox expansion and fit a PCI gfx card.
If there is enough demand they might do it. But it sounds like the most difficult of expansions.
Should you ask for more PCI cards plus drivers?


X-Surf networkcard is basically PCI card sitting top of Zorro -> PCI converter, maybe that is a way to go? Maybe even same hardware could be used than used with X-Surf?

Hardest part would be enable Zorro II wich is mandatory to get much as possible customers.

(http://www.nishtek.com/Pics/Amiga/0681.jpg)
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Kernel on February 26, 2014, 07:49:05 PM
wow, thread seems to have died quicker than I expected!  Has anyone heard of any Gfx cards in the pipeline for classic systems?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Havie on February 26, 2014, 09:41:40 PM
Well, I for one would like something for an A1200!
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: desiv on February 26, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: Havie;759795
Well, I for one would like something for an A1200!


And there's the real problem, I think.
Adding a graphics card for a big box Amiga is (I'm guessing) easier than adding a graphics card to the Amiga 1200 (or 600/500/1000) computer.
And, the larger market...  Yep, the smaller Amigas..

Other than the ZorRAM, which is a much easier design than a video card, how many big box addons have there been?
And some of the ones that have come out, also have clockport (sometimes with a loss of features) which increases the buyer pool..

I'm almost wondering if you'd need to re-implement Alice to do that??

desiv
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Tenacious on February 26, 2014, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;759079
I would also like this from a personal standpoint, because I've now spent over $500 importing Picasso II's from Europe to try on my A2000 system. :anger:


So, did you ever get any satisfaction from your PII(s)?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: freqmax on February 27, 2014, 12:33:52 PM
Add the graphics hardware to the CPU space. Add RTG driver. Done!
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: yssing on February 27, 2014, 12:38:36 PM
I'll stick to buying an FPGA arcade in the future.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: fitzsteve on February 27, 2014, 12:50:12 PM
I guess the main reason we don't see them is because they're probably a lot more complex to produce.

Also you already have various options to use PCI graphics cards in big box Amiga's such as the Mediator PCI, you then can have LAN & Sound much cheaper than buying all the Zorro counterparts and even cheap hacked Spider USB if you can solder the small ID chip.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on February 27, 2014, 06:47:57 PM
Quote from: Tenacious;759805
So, did you ever get any satisfaction from your PII(s)?

None. Paperweights. I mean, they both work great as PII's, but the automatic monitor switch doesn't work with the output from the Indivision ECS, which is the primary reason I wanted one. Switch works fine with 23-pin Amiga video output run through the silver C= adapter so I know they "work", but as soon as I plug Indi output into the PII the entire system just goes black. :mad:

Haven't had much time to play with lately, anybody have Jens' email address around handy? LOL. ;)
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Rob on February 27, 2014, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;759851
None. Paperweights. I mean, they both work great as PII's, but the automatic monitor switch doesn't work with the output from the Indivision ECS, which is the primary reason I wanted one. Switch works fine with 23-pin Amiga video output run through the silver C= adapter so I know they "work", but as soon as I plug Indi output into the PII the entire system just goes black. :mad:

Haven't had much time to play with lately, anybody have Jens' email address around handy? LOL. ;)


Couldn't get any joy out of my Eyetech monitor switcher with the Indivision although it had worked perfectly fine with the DCE scandoubler I had before.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on February 27, 2014, 11:43:49 PM
Quote from: Rob;759858
Couldn't get any joy out of my Eyetech monitor switcher with the Indivision although it had worked perfectly fine with the DCE scandoubler I had before.

Well that SUCKS.  And is good to know.  Not that I want to use an external switch at all, but I wonder if the Indi is compatible with any of them?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: utri007 on February 28, 2014, 11:14:45 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;759867
Well that SUCKS.  And is good to know.  Not that I want to use an external switch at all, but I wonder if the Indi is compatible with any of them?


I have Micronic scandy and GVP Spectrum, they work just fine together. P II doesn't have pass through?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: zipper on February 28, 2014, 11:44:05 AM
PII does have+ switcher, too - works nice with an Eyetech external SD/FliFi.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Kernel on March 05, 2014, 02:04:54 PM
Ok so seriously... if a card like this appears to be such a wanted item that someone would pay upwards of the cost of a new X1000

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-3000-4000-CyberStorm-PPC-68060-CPU-accelerator-card-/111291259973?pt=AU_Consoles&hash=item19e979dc45

then please tell me why there isn't a hardware manufacturer still making cards like this?
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: zipper on March 05, 2014, 03:08:34 PM
To sell how many? 10? OK,100? Forget it.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Kernel on March 05, 2014, 04:00:47 PM
Quote from: zipper;760229
To sell how many? 10? OK,100? Forget it.


Yeah, you are probably right... just a pipe dream I guess.
Title: Re: Can of worms - Classic Amiga Expansion
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on March 05, 2014, 07:12:20 PM
Quote from: utri007;759883
I have Micronic scandy and GVP Spectrum, they work just fine together. P II doesn't have pass through?

PII does have pass-through, but it doesn't work with the output from Indivision ECS.  :(