Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Kesa on January 28, 2014, 06:17:51 AM
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I'm planning on getting a new gaming machine.
First i was going to get a PS4 but to be honest i don't really find it interesting. It's really just a lower powered pc in a fancy case. I don't like the touchscreen on the controller (too gimicky). But most of all it cannot do proper 1080p for most of its games (I love pixels). Probably be limited to 30fps forever.
I'm definitely not going to get another gaming laptop. The one i already have is perfectly fine except the fan needs to be cleaned which requires me to completely disassemble the machine. No more laptops. No. Next PC i will build a tower.
Now i'm thinking about a Neo Geo. Doe anyone have one of these? If yes are they worth the hassle? Which model is best? How well do they age? What about the controllers? How does the Neo Geo compare to the A1200/CD32 in terms of software and hardware? They seem to be similarly specced out but the games just look so awesome on YouTube.
Or is the Neo Geo an overrated piece of siht?
If i do get a Neo Geo i will probably get an X-Arcade joystick as the Neo Geo ones look a bit dated.
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Have you tried any of the NeoGeo emulators for your PC? I'd imagine the games are great since they use similar hardware to the NeoGeo arcade machine if not identical. Back when they first came out somebody told me that the game disks were the same ones used by the arcade machine anyway so that there were unlimited continues on all the games. Also, a quick Google reveals that there are multiple NeoGeo emulators for Windows but only two Amiga emulators.
WinUAE may be the best Amiga emulator but since all the software worth having on Amiga is designed around a decade of design kludges that never were fixed, it will probably be best to have the real hardware to run the software with. (Not to mention WinUAE and FS-UAE are single-threaded emulators.)
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The Neo Geo is better specced as a games machine than the A1200 but the carts are likely to be very expensive and a large proportion of the game are beatemups. I'd definitely use an emulator first to help making a decision.
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The NeoGeo is THE best 2D platform, no exceptions.
Massive graphics, big levels all with no loading time, an awesome joystick as standard, great sound and some fantastic games (I'm looking at you, Metal Slug....).
You have two options: the AES (which I have) is the home console. Looks good and comes with by far the best joystick I've seen on a home console. The problem is that the games vary from cheap to massively expensive, with the great games like MS selling for hundreds of dollaris/pounds/euros.
The MVS needs a supergun and so has no joystick or nice case. The games are identical but are not interoperable with the AES. Of course the games are just grey carts with a bit of paper... no snazzy artworked plastic cases here.
The big problem with the NeoGeo is the lack of games. If you don't like shooters, sports and most of all beat-'em-ups then the NeoGeo is not for you.
The NeoGeo has it's drawbacks but it's simply an awesome machine.... if you can afford it. Each game is expensive but this does mean you play them more.
I'm not selling mine, that's for sure!
(ans of course, an emulator will give you a taste, but it's nowhere near the same as the real thing in my opinion.)
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I'll echo the "try an emulator" sentiment. There are some damn fine games for the NeoGeo (Twinkle Star Sprites in particular is just a nutty but awesome concept for a two-player competitive shmup that I've never seen anyone else attempt,) but there's not a lot of variety, and in my case while I enjoy some of the titles it's just not enough to justify the investment it would take to get the real deal. Maybe you'll feel differently, who knows, but given the amount it can cost, I'd do some checking in first.
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I would go with a good arcade stick for your x86 machine and then download the big Mame pack and you are set.
I could share the latest 311GB MAME 0.152 CHDs set to anyone here from my fileserver, then you got tons to do forever!
If you do not know what Mame is here is a quick quote from wiki:
MAME (an acronym of Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator) is an emulator application designed to recreate the hardware of arcade game systems in software on modern personal computers and other platforms. The intention is to preserve gaming history by preventing vintage games from being lost or forgotten. The aim of MAME is to be a reference to the inner workings of the emulated arcade machines; the ability to actually play the games is considered "a nice side effect". Joystiq has listed MAME as an application that every gamer should have.
Then we also have MESS, the complete latest MESS pack is 1.3TB large but it have consoles also and not only arcade machine games, for some it's huge but it is worth it.
MESS supports 668 unique systems with 1748 total system variations and is constantly growing
I could also share that set on my fileserver if there is any interest.
Something I also recommend for people who want to game is the HyperSpin project, it's lovely and is the nr1 reason tho why im currently building an arcade cabinet!
Take a look! EDIT: This is the font-end where you can preview games and systems and all "stick" compatible!
[youtube]2LbtvmdRgo8[/youtube]
I have the most recent collections of most systems, all from TOSEC, REDUMP to Turip etc so if anyone wants anything I can share :)
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Thanks guys. I use winuae but don't enjoy it as i feel it doesn't really capture the energy of a real Amiga. I think the same would happen with the Neo Geo emulator. The first impressions are always the most important and the thing you will remember the most (at least with me) and i want mine to be using the real thing. Emulators will ruin it. But you guys have a good point that it's probably a good idea to try it first.
What about the build quality of the machines themselves? The CD32 has a really weak lid and the standard controller is mediocre in build quality.
I remember playing the arcade version of King Of Monsters and i remember that it rocked!
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How about a Neo Geo X? Comes preloaded with Metal Slug as well.
Neo Geo X (http://neogeox.com)
Edit: Or maybe not. It's an emulator.
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PS4 has no issues with 1080p at 30/60 FPS that I've seen.
http://ca.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates
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WinUAE may be the best Amiga emulator but since all the software worth having on Amiga is designed around a decade of design kludges that never were fixed, it will probably be best to have the real hardware to run the software with.
What do you mean ? Are you saying WinUAE can't run all the software worth having?
(Not to mention WinUAE and FS-UAE are single-threaded emulators.)
That is largely irrelevant, nearly all emulators are single threaded. Communicating between threads is too slow to be of any practical use.
If you were emulating an accelerator you could push that to another thread with it's own fast ram that only it could access and then sync to the other thread when any motherboard access is required. This would mimic what happens on real hardware and possibly could get faster speeds for 68060.
But on a modern PC you can already run faster than any real 68060 ever could, so it's uncertain if the effort is worth it.
The maximum increase would likely only be what the blitter/copper/etc takes to emulate, which is going to be only be a very small percentage. The speed decrease could outweigh that if software was doing a lot of chipram access.
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Neo*Geo is definitely not overrated. On top of excellent titles and gameplay, the machines are built like tanks and the controllers are even better. Okay, maybe not the Neo*Geo gamepad that was released for their CD system.
Some random thoughts:
Neo*Geo X portable system - great if you're into portables, don't mind that it's emulated, sounds are a little off, aspect ratio problems, limited library and tough to get different games into the system unless you have one of the early models that can be modded. On the plus side, the packaging is great, quality of the hardware is good, can be hooked up to your TV and the 4-button USB Neo*Geo X joystick is excellent. I use one for MAME, among other things.
Neo*Geo cartridge system - built like a tank, easy to mod, MVS carts are generally cheap, much of the AES games are too, joystick is excellent, built to last and comfortable. Downsides include system and carts being humongous and some games are getting tougher to find and when you do, tend to be a little pricey.
Neo*Geo CD - a contradiction if there ever was one IMO. Single speed optic based system for loading huge amounts of data - yawn, literally! Original premise was to get the cost of the games down for the general public, but nope - they were still overpriced. Sub par controller included to appeal to the NinSega crowd too. I really don't see the point of getting one of these, other than if you scored one one the cheap. Really cheap.
CD32 - love this machine and disagree about the controller and lid, BUT... it is what it is: a stripped down A1200. Besides maybe Fightin' Spirit (Neo*Geo folks behind this IIRC), you really can't be comparing the style of games between a Neo*Geo and an Amiga computer.
Multitude of problems playing games on an Amiga vs. simple plug and play of a Neo*Geo console. All boils down to what you expect and the kind of experience you're looking for.
Are you after arcade perfect titles with great re-playability and love button mashing? Neo*Geo hands down.
Or are you content being disappointed with scaled down versions of arcade games? Many of which hampered even more thanks to crummy inferior least_common_denominator computer conversions. Most all played on a single Atari 2600 style, single button controller.
Bottom line: Get both! Neo*Geo for awesome arcade action and an Amiga computer for all the other great games. :)
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Buy a NeoGeo... spend life's savings trying to collect games. Impress your self with that feeling that "hey, I've got the real hardware", then realize "hey there is not OS, might as well just emulate the games". Impress a few friends here and there with your new hardware... the moment passes, life goes on, you learn to regret it.
No sir, owning an actual NeoGeo isn't the same as owning a real Amiga. The only thing you will be lacking in your experience will be the original Joystick that came with this puppy, and the feel of the HUGE carts. Beyond that, you ain't missing anything through emulation (who cares if a pixel is off?!), and you can always compensate for the lack of joystick with another fine joystick such as the one's used in Mame machines and the like. Buying one or two of them would be cheaper than buying a NeoGeo set up.
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Neo-Geo is great but there is not a solution like the everdrive cartridge for it.
The new system is not based on the real hardware, if it was I would buy one too.
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@vince you are wrong there! :)
The Neo Geo is an excellent console, as said its very well built and the games are of a very high quality. They're expensive though, that's why you should consider getting one of the xxx-in-1 cartridges that can be found on ebay from time to time:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=nl&q=350-in-1+neo+geo#hl=nl&q=in+1+cartridge+neo+geo&safe=off
(https://www.google.com/search?hl=nl&q=350-in-1+neo+geo#hl=nl&q=in+1+cartridge+neo+geo&safe=off)
Illegal? Well.. playing the games on MAME isnt legal either, so..
Also, the Neo Geo is not similar to the Amiga in any way other than the CPU. Its full of custom hardware to get better quality sound, graphics and for example, more sprites on screen.
Oh and forget about the X and the CD, for reasons already pointed out.
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Thanks guys. I use winuae but don't enjoy it as i feel it doesn't really capture the energy of a real Amiga. I think the same would happen with the Neo Geo emulator.
Yeah, I get you there, but it would at least let you know whether you like the game selection. Of course, if you can find someone in your area with a Neo Geo, there's always that option.
Also, NeoRage is much more usable than MAME or MESS.
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I think to many people, an emulator is "good enough". I don't know why, but it just never has been good enough for me. Maybe it's the slight latencies between the controller and the display, or the display and the sound, or the occasional jerk of animation... I don't know. But there's no way I would ever use an emulator in place of my Neo Geo AES. Similarly, I don't use UAE unless there's a good reason to - I always use my real Miggies where I can... and emulator just isn't the same.
The best option is to find a Neo Geo arcade machine somewhere (there are still some around if you look hard enough!) and imagine having it in your home. :)
Over the years I've spent much more money on my Neo Geo than I'd like my wife to know about ( before I met her :) ) as I used to have more of the folding stuff that I could spend. But even now, I don't regret buying those games that I did, and they weren't all cheap. I still like a good Metal Slug session with my MS 3, 4 or 5 carts, and there's nothing quite like the true original NeoGeo versions. Last Resort is an excellent shooter - another of my favourites - and games like Sengoku III are still very entertaining.
Is it just a psychological thing? Quite possibly. But the important thing is that the enjoyment I get from it is real.
Incidentally, anyone with a NeoGeo AES should get a Universe BIOS. This lets you play the games in Japanese (with red blood but Japanese text) or American (fake blood but English text), and also lets you pretend to the cartridge that your AES is an MVS (the arcade machine) - all NeoGeo carts are the same, they read your console to find out what kind of machine it is, and the Universe BIOS lets you change these, and put in pokes for infinite lives and stuff. Very cool.
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Buy a NeoGeo... spend life's savings trying to collect games. Impress your self with that feeling that "hey, I've got the real hardware", then realize "hey there is not OS, might as well just emulate the games". Impress a few friends here and there with your new hardware... the moment passes, life goes on, you learn to regret it.
Indeed. Applies to everyone in existence, because everyone is exactly the same :)
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Indeed. Applies to everyone in existence, because everyone is exactly the same :)
Well if he's filthy rich then I'd say go for it. If not, then I'd say he may regret it some day, unless the value of this hardware only continues to go up...
...then on the other hand. :)
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I personally never prefer emulators over original hardware ever, but in some cases I can not justify the prices of building a good game library.
NeoGeo do sadly not offer me enough games that appeal me enough to justify me to go crazy and buy tons of games, I want all consoles in my collection but for some I only buy a few games because of prices and play the rest on emulators.
NeoGeo is great yes, but it's all about taste of games, I enjoy the occasional SCHMUP, Fighter, arcade puzzle/racer from time to time but not enough to justify the money for lots of games for it, I tend to keep the NeoGeo games to the few good RPGs and the rest I play on emulators.
But NeoGeo is one of few systems that are hard to play backups on, most common cartridge based systems have a solution like everdrive to play near all games on real hardware and the few games that do not work I buy.
Optical-based systems mostly have some solution either via modchips or custom firmwares in PC CD/DVD-writers or orther software hacks to play backups on.
So most systems out there has some kind of backup solution which is great since I can play vast amounts of games without scouting the internets for games (not to mention the storage space i save).
But sure I still buy all my favorite games for all systems to have the originals, but NeoGeo do not have high priority in my case, I rather spend the money on other systems/hardware/projects.
If you love enough games for the neogeo to justify the prices go for it, if not and you don't want to play via Emulators but another system that has backup solutions, most systems have arcade sticks for them and building your own is not hard if you know how to do it.
The TurboGrafx has tons of good "arcade" games and you can play backups on it thus saving you a lot of money, but there are plenty more systems with great game libraries, it all comes down to taste of games and the amount of money the person is willing to spend :)
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let me get this right =>
You don't want to get a PS4 (probably an uneducated reason)
BUT
you want to get a 20 year old system like a NeoGeo which is barely more powerful
than my toaster oven.And one which I can emulate and get free games for in about 10 minutes?
wow your smart
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let me get this right =>
You don't want to get a PS4 (probably an uneducated reason)
BUT
you want to get a 20 year old system like a NeoGeo which is barely more powerful
than my toaster oven.And one which I can emulate and get free games for in about 10 minutes?
wow your smart
You're on a forum dedicated to Amigas and their users. What were you expecting to find here?
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let me get this right =>
You don't want to get a PS4 (probably an uneducated reason)
BUT
you want to get a 20 year old system like a NeoGeo which is barely more powerful
than my toaster oven.And one which I can emulate and get free games for in about 10 minutes?
wow your smart
The PS4 will probably break down long before the NeoGeo does.
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Or are you content being disappointed with scaled down versions of arcade games? Many of which hampered even more thanks to crummy inferior least_common_denominator computer conversions. Most all played on a single Atari 2600 style, single button controller.
Unfortunately, this about sums it up!
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let me get this right =>
You don't want to get a PS4 (probably an uneducated reason)
BUT
you want to get a 20 year old system like a NeoGeo which is barely more powerful
than my toaster oven.And one which I can emulate and get free games for in about 10 minutes?
wow your smart
It's "you're" smart, actually. :)
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If you want to play downloaded games, buy a Neo Geo CD! Not the same, but close as long as you don't mind loading times, and the original games are much cheaper too.
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neo geo is a great arcade perfect machine if you like shooters and fighters, other game styles are a bit thin on the ground, not the hardware's fault,it's more than able to handle many game types, it just happens to cater to arcade style games.
I sold mine after a while, as I'm more it to rpg, 3D and strategy games.
I found the PC-engine more varied, with software easier to get hold of, and more choice of hardware.
I think the A1200 could of coped with quite a few neo-geo style games, as fightin' spirit proved. But i guess AGA never got as much effort as OCS/ECS. Lack of disk storage space was another issue as well I suppose.
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for some reason I think many of you missed my previous post. like I said, the neo geo cannot be compared to the amiga 1200. its a superior machine. the neo geo cd sounds like a good idea but doesnt have much benefit over the original console + multicartridge. as for people stating its useless to invest in such old machine, I have no idea what you are doing on amiga.org. I find much enjoyment investing in and playing with old game consoles and computers and judging by the interest online, Im certainly not alone.
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as for people stating its useless to invest in such old machine, I have no idea what you are doing on amiga.org. I find much enjoyment investing in and playing with old game consoles and computers and judging by the interest online, Im certainly not alone.
The difference to me is that the Amiga can do a LOT more than play games. It is a work station for me, I am willing to put money into my work station, its practical on my end, but intensting large sums of money into a game system where no game sells for under $100...
...I can not think of a logical reason for me to tap my (food/rent/future) funds for that.
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let me get this right =>
You don't want to get a PS4 (probably an uneducated reason)
BUT
you want to get a 20 year old system like a NeoGeo which is barely more powerful
than my toaster oven.And one which I can emulate and get free games for in about 10 minutes?
wow your smart
Wowee! Free games, emulation and underpowered disposable PeeCee's repackaged and sold in wobbly black boxes - oh my!
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the neo geo cannot be compared to the amiga 1200. its a superior machine.
No, it's not a superior machine. Consoles like the Neo Geo are better for old school 2D games, because their hardware is optimized for that. For everything else, these consoles loose big time to machines like the A1200.
An A1200 has much more RAM, higher graphics resolutions in far more colours, a proper CPU slot, IDE interface, PCMCIA interface that's actually useful (networking), a faster CPU, and probably some things that I forgot.
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Exactly - it's not "superior", it's different. The A1200 isn't a console, the NeoGeo is.... but when it comes to arcade games, the NeoGeo will thrash the A1200 every time because the hardware is SO powerful. There's no way the A1200 could throw 2D sprites around like the NeoGeo.
Difficult to run a text adventure on a NeoGeo, though. :) And anything that doesn't benefit from lots of large sprites is not really designed for the NG.
I say buy it, and if you don't like it, sell it for the same price you bought it for.
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exactly.
also, this nonsense about higher resolutions and productivity software, we're comparing the machines as game machines, not as office desktop, obviously.. and Ive yet to see an amiga game running in 640x512x16 on original hardware.
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Ive yet to see an amiga game running in 640x512x16 on original hardware.
Robosport could run in high-res laced 16 colors on original hardware. It was a legitimate option within the game, not a hack. One other game I recall, I think it was called "Carnage" or something like that. Overhead maze two player shooter game. I'm sure others will come to me once I've had my morning coffee, lol. ;)
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Im talking 16 bit, not 16 colours.. ;) and no, Myst doesnt count.
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Im talking 16 bit, not 16 colours.. ;) and no, Myst doesnt count.
Oops, LOL. ;) According to Wikipedia Neo Geo could only do 320x224x12-bit (4,096 colors) at a time. Still, the line "Maximum sprites on screen: 380" is a killer, haha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_(system)#Specifications
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The NeoGeo in fact ONLY has sprites. From memory, I believe the backgrounds you see are actually sprites of 32 pixels by 200 or whatever the height is. This is why NeoGeo games have parallax and things so easily - it's just lots of really tall sprites (the NG has no height limit on its sprites).
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I believe you are right again :) an awesome console. For sure the best '2D console' ever built.
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The NeoGeo in fact ONLY has sprites. From memory, I believe the backgrounds you see are actually sprites of 32 pixels by 200 or whatever the height is. This is why NeoGeo games have parallax and things so easily - it's just lots of really tall sprites (the NG has no height limit on its sprites).
If that's the case, I'm curious what the "simultaneous scroll planes" thing is about...?
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If that's the case, I'm curious what the "simultaneous scroll planes" thing is about...?
Good question. I'm not sure what it refers to, but Wikipedia just kind of throws that in there as a spec so I guess it means something.
I don't think it's what it sounds like, though - at least, not how we Amiga users think of it.
Looks like my memory was correct, though:
Unlike most other video game consoles of its time, the Neo Geo does not use tilemap background layers. Instead, it relies exclusively on drawing sprites to create the background. Sprites are vertical strips which are 16 pixels wide, and can be 16 to 512 pixels tall. By laying multiple sprites side by side, the system can simulate a background layer.
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Interesting.
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sorry i have to be honest, having owned a Neo Geo the sound is awful at least the Amiga has nicer 'composed' music. I would rather play on a CD32 than a Neo Geo, BUT buy both and decide for yourself is my personal advice.
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No, it's not a superior machine. Consoles like the Neo Geo are better for old school 2D games, because their hardware is optimized for that.
And that spells out the current trend that to me seems to be killing the modern video game industry. With the exception of Nintendo, no one is designing video game hardware around the games they'd like to develop, rather (Sony and Microsoft) are trying to churn out something with the most impressive specs, bells, whistles, etc. and paying mind to little else. As if match the specs of dated PC hardware is going to make good games a given...
...when the matter of the fact is that few games that come out on Sony or Microsoft any more are about gaming and are more about making shooters with more polys, higher res textures, more tits, more ass, more foul language, and more dark, deviant, and psychotic plot lines.
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And that spells out the current trend that to me seems to be killing the modern video game industry. With the exception of Nintendo, no one is designing video game hardware around the games they'd like to develop, rather (Sony and Microsoft) are trying to churn out something with the most impressive specs, bells, whistles, etc. and paying mind to little else. As if match the specs of dated PC hardware is going to make good games a given...
...when the matter of the fact is that few games that come out on Sony or Microsoft any more are about gaming and are more about making shooters with more polys, higher res textures, more tits, more ass, more foul language, and more dark, deviant, and psychotic plot lines.
Can't disagree with this. But that's not in Microsoft or Sony's direct control, they make the platform. Imagine a high quality version of Worms on these platforms now. I reckon it would sell like hot cakes.
I stopped at PS 2.
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Can't disagree with this. But that's not in Microsoft or Sony's direct control, they make the platform. Imagine a high quality version of Worms on these platforms now. I reckon it would sell like hot cakes.
I stopped at PS 2.
They do make a lot of classic Amiga remakes on the PC nowadays, and Amiga-like games too. Good to very good quality as well. I'd recon, go for a PC. Loads of good, cheap, diverse games and there are only getting more every day. And both NeoGeo and Amiga can be emulated (though a CRT screen is needed for a decent, pixel perfect picture)
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sorry i have to be honest, having owned a Neo Geo the sound is awful at least the Amiga has nicer 'composed' music. I would rather play on a CD32 than a Neo Geo, BUT buy both and decide for yourself is my personal advice.
I think it depends on the game... but you need to remember that the NeoGeo games are made for a different market -they're made for the Arcade, so it has to be loud and "in-your-face".
Certainly the NG sound hardware is better than Paula - Paula has 16-bit sound at 22KHz (usually), whereas the NG has 15 channel sound, sampling at up to 55.5KHz (though I don't think all channels can do this). You'd expect it to be better, though - Paula was created in 1984/5 and never changed, whereas the NG sound chip I think came later.
I've certainly never had a problem with NG sound, but I don't think musical compositions are NeoGeo games' strong points, no. If you're going to compare with the CD32, though, you should compare the NeoGeo CD, which of course has CD Audio too (and some great soundtracks).
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And that spells out the current trend that to me seems to be killing the modern video game industry. With the exception of Nintendo, no one is designing video game hardware around the games they'd like to develop, rather (Sony and Microsoft) are trying to churn out something with the most impressive specs, bells, whistles, etc. and paying mind to little else. As if match the specs of dated PC hardware is going to make good games a given...
...when the matter of the fact is that few games that come out on Sony or Microsoft any more are about gaming and are more about making shooters with more polys, higher res textures, more tits, more ass, more foul language, and more dark, deviant, and psychotic plot lines.
Amen to that. This is basically the entire reason I haven't bothered with current-gen gaming since Oblivion came out. Overblown, undercooked, samey crap that looks like the world's drabbest GPU demo reel (and plays like it, too,) ever drabber and drearier and displaying the same kind of "maturity means saying 'f***' a lot and having every female character dressed like a stripper" attitude that put me off getting into comic books back in the '90s.
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Can't disagree with this. But that's not in Microsoft or Sony's direct control, they make the platform. Imagine a high quality version of Worms on these platforms now. I reckon it would sell like hot cakes.
I stopped at PS 2.
Aside of Sony's Eye toy thingy they released for the PS 2, I'd say their actions prove that they are to blame. Take Nintendo for example, when they come out with a platform and, it's going to be unique because they have been developing a game that can be realized without said hardware. For instance, the Gameboy Advanced lacked a second screen, so they added one. Or the N64 had to sell with limited RAM, so they left room for an expansion so later down the road, gamers could cough out a little extra cash to experience games that took advantage of that memory. Sega did the same thing with the Saturn. They had foresight, something in mind that they had planned long before the hardware existed.
Microsoft and Sony on the other hand are just trying to lure in your run of the mill PC developers who focus on more realistic graphics, and those other things I mentioned above. Essentually they are trying to cate to a demographic, a set audience. A core group of gamers who are expecting a particular kind of paint job, and a certain kind of style. Yes they want things to be newer, bigger, better, beyond the graphics, but what ever that "newer, bigger, better" is, it has to play it safe and build upon the genre of gaming that they all flock to.
It's sort of like sports. There are SOOOOO many variations of sports out there, but if you were to hang out with people who love sports, you'd be convinced that there are really only about two or three. Football, Basketball, and Baseball.... well and maybe fighting. All other forms of sports generally get pushed to the way side, except during the Olympics.
For the video game world, this is unnatural, the modern fan base for video games is unnatural, that is to say the home console market more so than the newere markets with cell phones and the like. Back in the day when video games were still highly experimental, there was nothing but inovation. Mind you, there was a ton of copy cat coding of course, but what I'm saying is that there was no safe formula.
Video games, though large, were still primarily underground, that is to say, in the hands of the developers, and passionate small company heads who hired them. There were no college grad, or old and clueless CEO's who were detached in heart, mind, and spirit from the product they were trying to sell, not to mention the audience. They were not around dictating to those with the real passion as to what they should develop. Granted, it didn't take long for such types to emerge, but in the early days, they were not EVERYWHERE!
Just like how movies, musick, books, religion, and generally all things great and pure have gone. Joy!!!
So anyhow, no jerk off CEO, no clueless old men or women, no cluless and ambition young college grads, just the love of what was being done, and an exploration, because as I said, no standard formula for "platformer" "sports title" "rpg" "action" "shooter", and so on, had been established yet. Games came out generally how ever the programmer(s) imagined it. They could not just refer to DOOM, Dragon's Layer, Super Mario, Half-Life, Knight of the Old Republic, and so on, and say,"aghh, here's what we'll do, we'll make something kind of like Half-Life, but instead you are doing this this and this.
So we had a few copy cats, but a TON of un-orthodoxed video games pretty much all the way up to the Dreamcast era, but then it seemed like the market begin to really come under the grips of "commercial and business sense". Somehow a generation of gamers were born that only liked the same thing over and over again, and it is to this crowd that CEO's pander to. Or the pander to the concept that chidlren, who's minds are like a sponge and can absorb almost anything at a very fast rate, are infact slow, dumb, and clumsy, and therefore need shallow "kids" games, that are not too challenging, not to complex, don't inspire imagination, but they certainly do manage to market what ever they are marketting well... Sponge Bob? The Disney Princess archtype? Other forms of "animation" that are but a slap in the face to animation and story telling greats suhc as Ralph Bakshi, Don Bluth (Dragon's Layer), Chuck Jones, and the like.
I'm generalizing now, tried of typing, but you get the picture.
I dont' think Microsoft needed such and such specs to develop Halo 15, or to make the characters in their games more and more shallow and cliche. It is clear that they had not vision or plan when the Kinect came out, as it released with absolutely nothing that was enjoyable to play with it. In fact I NEVER see any of my XBOX buddies using theirs. Same goes for the Sony Wiimote, I know some good 3rd party games support them, but really, how blatantly can you rip off Nintendo, then turn around and dog on them for this business sense...
...oh wait they recently turned around again and thanked them for being there to rip off. True story.
Anyhow, the game market is crap, long live Nintendo, but shame on them for only putting safety nets at their factories. Ruthless!!!
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...I don't think musical compositions are NeoGeo games' strong points, no.
All valid points, certainly worth a purchase, I know there is some great exclusive titles on the Neo Geo so its certainly worth buying for the experience.
My own personal view is if you have a great game but the sound composition is awful it wont make me like the game. Mega drive also had the same effect on me, I just didn't like the sound. Maybe because I'm a SID chip fan, i just know when it sounds wrong.
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"maturity means saying 'f***' a lot and having every female character dressed like a stripper" attitude that put me off getting into comic books back in the '90s.
Straight up, while in some ways comics got really good since the 90's...
...in far far far too many ways have they gone down hill and lost the essense of where they came from... healthy role models being one.
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If you want a Neo Geo get an arcade machine. You can find single slot and double slot ones for a couple hundred bucks. The games are carts just like the console but MUCH cheaper and easy to find on ebay as well.
If you dont want an arcade machine taking up space you can consolize the board pretty easily too.
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I got my PS4 on launch back in nov for my Bday. From my self. Was going to sell it but...
I had pre-ordered it and was a little disappointed that it came without the camera which was pictured when I ordered it.
I did by the Plus, but I have not purchased any games for it yet. The only thing I really have played on it is Contrast. I figure I'll eventually get Knack once used gets down to about $20. Naughty dog will eventually release something :)
I got the PS4 on no interest credit, so it was easy to pay off over the last few months, so at least it did not cost much.
I receive a lot of gift cards typically over my bday and Christmas, and I'm glad I cashed all those in for an Nvidia Shield which leads me to my next point. Had I used my gift cards for the PS4 that would have been disappointing :)
Emulators on powerful devices like the Tegra4 are realistic compared to real deal and I don't perceive much lag at all. Also, you are not loading windows which does add to authenticity.
I'm sure the Mad Catz MOJO is a good alternative to Shield - just more of a true console.
NeoGeo is may have been the most powerful 2D console, or I think that honor may go to the sharp x68000. NeoGeo was impressive in the day, but the game library does not have much variation.
NeoGeo is pretty easy to emulate in hardware (and has been for a lone time) now because large sprites can be emulated with ease via opengl textured quads. Even the Dingo could emulate NeoGeo almost perfectly :)
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Aside of Sony's Eye toy thingy they released for the PS 2, I'd say their actions prove that they are to blame....
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Anyhow, the game market is crap, long live Nintendo, but shame on them for only putting safety nets at their factories. Ruthless!!!
Understand your point of view but still I fail to see, apart from proprietary games, how Sony and Microsoft are directly responsible for what you, in my view, are clearly pointing out above is a result of what games houses know will sell and is the core reality of the mass market as confined by modern marketing.
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The NeoGeo in fact ONLY has sprites. From memory, I believe the backgrounds you see are actually sprites of 32 pixels by 200 or whatever the height is. This is why NeoGeo games have parallax and things so easily - it's just lots of really tall sprites (the NG has no height limit on its sprites).
Minimum sprite size: 1×2
Maximum sprite size: 16×512
Maximum sprites per scanline: 96
Simultaneous scroll planes: 3
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Understand your point of view but still I fail to see, apart from proprietary games, how Sony and Microsoft are directly responsible for what you, in my view, are clearly pointing out above is a result of what games houses know will sell and is the core reality of the mass market as confined by modern marketing.
Well I suppose nothing is stopping 3rd party developers from developing inovative games for Sony or Microsloth's hardware... I just don't see it happen much, at least not like Nintendo does it.
What I'm suggesting though is that the market is partially engineered. I mean people smoke crack, it's addictive, makes you feel horrible, and can eventually kill you, yet people do it! Same goes for the consumer market, a lot of it is based upon drawing crowds with a lot of buzz, a lot of boom, and a lot of bling, where as at the core, many of the products that people buy today, have any relevent use at the end of the day. Take Pier One Imports as an example. NOTHING in that store has any practical use, it's all for cosmetic effect. Heck you can't even actually sit on any of the (wicker) furniture in the store lest it eventually break and fall out from under you, yet people still shop at those stores like they are going out of style.
Likewise, I think a lot of kids are sucked into the modern corporately and less artistically generated games of today's era, because of the hype, how it makes them feel to take on the role of Billy Bad Ass with a gun, and it gives them to talk about with their friends, again like Football, it's a macho occasion.
Girls on the other hand generally seem to flock towards games that prepare them for the club, girls love clubs. So Dance Dance Devolution, and phsyically (not so much mentally or emotionally) fit games are the order of the day, what ever makes them feel "hot".
Again, I'm generalizing, but I swear there are so many better offerings from Nintendo and from game machines past than what are on the PS 2, 3, 4, and 360 combined. Games that will be as fun or nearly as fun to pick up and play 20 years down the road as they were on the first day.
Anyhow, I'm just ranting and raving, I sincerley hope I'm not coming across as a know it all or like I'm arguing with you, I'm truly not, I just don't have much faith in the tastes and opinions of the common consumer, I am convinced that people don't always really like what they think they like, but that's just me. :)
On that note let me say what a breath of fresh air it is to have met so many young kids who prefer a Super Nintendo over an XBONE. Now that is saying something cause we all know how kids generally think about the pass times of generations past.
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At original poster IMO
1 Download NG emulator and games.
2 Run emulator and try all games which are not 2D fighting games.
3 Make sure you like enough of games which are not 2D fighting games.
4 Get a Neo-Geo CD console, a cake of 100 blank CD-Rs and get busy with Nero if you want the feel of real hardware on a big CRT TV with actual controllers.
The CD machines are incredibly hard to find, they made the 3DO sales look spectacular they were so obscure. Carts are too expensive, do not fancy £200 on some rubbish 2D fighting game that is inferior in every way to a £1 copy of Virtua Fighter 2 on even a Sega Saturn myself.
:)
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The CD machines suffer from loooong loading times, but they are a good entry point and are cheaper and easier to find than the NeoGeo AES (nobody wants them as much!).
The 2d fighters are not all rubbish, though... some of them are excellent. Personally I'd rather play a good 2D beat-em-up than Virtua Fighter any day, and some of them aren't in the hundreds of dollars.
All a matter of taste though.
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@Xdelusion. I'm a Ninty fan myself, but I've stopped at the Wii that I''ve soft modded so I can play off hard drive and play homebrew. The Gamecube is my fave console though, some fantastic games come out on it and all are playable with Wii. With component cables and on my 42 inch plasma things look great enough, even though its all SD.
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@Xdelusion. I'm a Ninty fan myself, but I've stopped at the Wii that I''ve soft modded so I can play off hard drive and play homebrew. The Gamecube is my fave console though, some fantastic games come out on it and all are playable with Wii. With component cables and on my 42 inch plasma things look great enough, even though its all SD.
Well said.
The Wii U is just another step in the current evolution: Gamecube>Wii>Wii U.
And the Wii U cannot be hacked to use its full capabilities, so why not stick with the Wii.
Frankly, I wish the PS3 or XBOX360 were more hackable as I find them more attractive than their replacements.
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so why not stick with the Wii.
Answer: The New Games, and yes the tablet is nice. :)
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The CD machines suffer from loooong loading times, but they are a good entry point and are cheaper and easier to find than the NeoGeo AES (nobody wants them as much!).
The 2d fighters are not all rubbish, though... some of them are excellent. Personally I'd rather play a good 2D beat-em-up than Virtua Fighter any day, and some of them aren't in the hundreds of dollars.
All a matter of taste though.
Yeah some load times are really bad, might even be a single speed CD-ROM in the machine. But I was told that the machine is like the CD32 in that it has no boot sector or other lockout files so just burn CD-Rs and off you go :)
Ahh well I'm more of a Mortal Kombat fan myself in the old 2D fighter arena but the rubbish bit is more to do with IMO VF2 is the finest beat em up since Way of the Exploding Fist hit the C64, it's easy to learn and play initially, addictive as you progress and has many in depth move combos to master lol
I'm actually on the lookout for a CD machine too, Viewpoint is just a game every shmup fan needs to have at home :D
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Most of the early CD consoles have no protection at all; it wasn't until the Playstation and Saturn that it started to become common, as CD burners were beginning to move out of the realm of "slightly less expensive than unicorn poop" and into a range that mere mortals could potentially afford.