Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Eco on February 11, 2004, 07:48:02 PM
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I have an A1200 in a Micronik steel tower. It is accompanied by a Z4 busboard, BPPC+BVision, internal scandoubler+flickerfixer, lyra keyboard adapter, IDE adapter, and drives. X-surf will be joining the fray when I get a replacement (was broken, aww :-()
Anyway, I have a problem with the physical attachment of the scandoubler+flickerfixer (it's the kind that sits on the two chips). It does stay in place when the tower is not moving, but it is exceedingly easy to disturb the proper placement of the clip-on-chip thingies. I'm sure there are various ways to attach them so they won't move by accident; what have you used? Tape seems to be the obvious solution?
Also, the BPPC+Bvision combo is not very tightly in place in the A1200 expansion slot (actually the pass-through of the Z4). In fact, is always feels loose. Even though I have not detected any problems in use, I'm thinking of attaching something to it to hold it down more securely. Any ideas?
I'd just like to think about my towered miggy and feel that it's solidly built, not a fragile artifact that should not be disturbed :-)
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Hi Eco,
Anyway, I have a problem with the physical attachment of the scandoubler+flickerfixer (it's the kind that sits on the two chips).
Do NOT use that kind of scandoubler / flickerfixer. Instead, use an external one that plugs into the RGB video port. Most of you guys do NOT know how to properly build an Amiga 1200 tower. I have seen many pictures of people's Amiga 1200 towers and they look like crap. Actually, they look like they were built by amateurs that did not know what they were doing. If any of you guys want to learn how to properly build an Amiga 1200 tower, then email me and I will explain it to you.
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@TheA1200Guy:
Mhmm. And I suppose you have a PHD on assembling A1200 towers, eh?
There is absolutely no great skill required to assemble an A1200 tower. The only part which requires attention is properly dealing with internal cabling in tight spaces, for the sake of better air-flow. The rest is pretty straight forward.
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You do NOT know what you are talking about!
Don't bother with the A1200, it is a toy computer. You should get an A2000, or the A1500 or A2500. These are the flagship Amiga computers. I personally own 3 of these professional computers:-D
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@TheA1200Guy
WELLCOME BACK . . .doommy :roll:
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A1200 a toy? It's the PPC powered frankenstein of the Amiga world :-D
Back to the topic at hand: Since I already bought the internal scandoubler, and it works and gives me a great VGA output, I will use it.
I'm actually going to order the VGA switcher thing from www.revanchellc.com and lick the problem with the two video outputs. Should be on sale in a week or two I hear.
So.. any practical ideas on how to bolt the sd/ff down?
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Hi x56h34,
Mhmm. And I suppose you have a PHD on assembling A1200 towers, eh?
No, but I am a Class 4 Electronics Assembler who has been doing electronics assembly for over 20 years.
There is absolutely no great skill required to assemble an A1200 tower
WRONG ! Actually, a great deal of skill is required to properly assemble an Amiga 1200 Tower of Power.
The only part which requires attention is properly dealing with internal cabling in tight spaces, for the sake of better air-flow.
WRONG AGAIN ! The first thing you must concider is the case. You can NOT just use any case for an Amiga 1200 tower. The PC case that you use must fit the Amiga 1200's motherboard and any expansion hardware that you will be adding. Also, the back piece, that the PC cards would normally be screwed to, must be removed. Then a custom made piece of sheet metal is riveted or screwed to the rear opening. The case that you use MUST have a sub-chassis. It must be as long and wide as the Amiga 1200's motherboard and any board plugged into it. Holes are drilled into the sub-chassis and stand-offs are installed. Then the Amiga 1200 motherboard is firmly screwed onto those stand-offs. Any addon board that is plugged into the "trapdoor" expansion port must also be mounted on stand-offs. Also, the ribbon cables MUST be custom made. When I finish building my own personal Amiga 1200 Tower of Power, I will take pictures of it and post them here on Amiga Org. These pictures will show you what an Amiga 1200 Tower, that is properly built, looks like. Trust me, it will NOT look like some kid made it.
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@ TheA1200Guy
No, but I am a Class 4 Electronics Assembler who has been doing electronics assembly for over 20 years.
pity that the brain, is still at the primary school :roll:
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Wrong! Assembling an A1200 mobo into any kind of a tower is dead easy! What's tricky is knowing how to go about replacing your inferior surface-mounted custom chips with ceramic, military grade ones. :roll:
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A: this one imagines the Micronik A1200 tower would be built properly for an A1200
B: Itts mostly socketing chips and screwing in cards, simpler on an A2000 my friend, but yet again, shouldn't be too hard on an A1200 customized tower...
C: Whats the Calls 4 stand for? you work on an assembly line or something?
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How about we keep to the constructive criticism and keep the condecending insults to ourselves? okay.
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Thank you, Argo.
I'm actually asking a serious questions here. I'm sure some of you have solved these issues for yourself; share the knowledge!
As for using standoffs on the BPPC: I would not know where to put them on the card (quite crowded), and the motherboard tray does not have any metal where the BPPC is.
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@TheA1200Guy
Question - Can you explain why here you are advising on the construction of a well built tower and yet had this to say in an earlier thread to another A1200T builder -
Hi Mucker,
It would be better for you to sell your Amiga 1200 Tower and buy yourself an Amiga 4000 or 2500 computer. Do not waste any more money on that A1200 Tower. If you need a really fast and powerful computer then get yourself a Pentium 4 PC. I have all of the Amiga models, including an AmigaOne G4. My Pentium 4 PC, running Windows 98 Second Edition, blows the doors off ALL of my Amiga computers. But, I still love my Amiga computers and actually use them all the time. I like playing the classic video games and watching all the cool demos and animations that were produced for the Amiga. But, if I need speed and power, I do not kid myself, I always use my Pentium 4 PC. It is much faster and out-performs my Amiga 4000 Tower and my AmigaOne G4. Yes, it would be better for you to sell that low-end Amiga model and get yourself one of the high-end Amiga models (like the Amiga 2500, 3000 or 4000). You can buy a really nice Amiga 2500 system on eBay for around $250.00 and an Amiga 4000 system for around $500.00.
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@DoomMaster (alias TheA1200Guy + several other aliases)
There are several ways to build A1200 tower, and none of them can be considered superior. The hack can be trivial or hard to build, depending on what you need.
What you need to do is to learn respect other's ideas, and stop posting your (sometimes totally false) ideas as facts. Less WRONG, NOT, MUST, and also use somewhat kinder and less provokative language.
You have been proven wrong before, and yet you insisted on spreading false information. You even ended up threatening to DDoS amiga.org.
Grow up (or alternatively, depending on the theory, go take your trolling elsewhere).
Thank you.
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Mhmm. And I suppose you have a PHD on assembling A1200 towers, eh?
No, but I am a Class 4 Electronics Assembler who has been doing electronics assembly for over 20 years.
And of course, during those 20 years of expreience, you learned the one true way to mount an A1200 motherboard in a tower? The A1200 was never designed to go in anything other than a console case. There is no right or wrong way of doing it. There are no books or courses to study. Only testimonies by other users who have taken up the challenge.
There is absolutely no great skill required to assemble an A1200 tower
WRONG ! Actually, a great deal of skill is required to properly assemble an Amiga 1200 Tower of Power.
Again, there is no "proper" way of carrying out this work. There are things one can do to make it a more successful project, and things one can do to try not destroying any part of their computer. I have done it myself, and while it does require more skill and dexterity than assembling a standard PC, it doesn't need a great deal of skill at all. A decent hand with a hacksaw, drill and soldering iron coupled with a bit of cop on will get you through it just fine.
The only part which requires attention is properly dealing with internal cabling in tight spaces, for the sake of better air-flow.
WRONG AGAIN ! The first thing you must concider is the case. You can NOT just use any case for an Amiga 1200 tower. The PC case that you use must fit the Amiga 1200's motherboard and any expansion hardware that you will be adding.
No disrespect intended, but if you're stupid enough to buy a case that's smaller than the parts you're putting into it, you would be too stupid to even think of attempting something like this. No PC case will actually fit the A1200 motherboard, all you can do is buy one bigger than the board and improvise.
Also, the back piece, that the PC cards would normally be screwed to, must be removed.
No, it doesn't. And notice I'm not obnoxiously shouting "WRONG AGAIN!!!" If you are a little creative with the positioning of the board, the slots at the back will not get in the way, and will even line up with any PCI or Zorro busboard slots you may wish to use.
Then a custom made piece of sheet metal is riveted or screwed to the rear opening. The case that you use MUST have a sub-chassis.
*Sigh* No it doesn't. It may very well make things easier, but you can quite successfully install an A1200 motherboard in a standard one-piece tower, the only modifications required to the case being the cutting of a slot for the original sockets of the 1200 and the removal ot the motherboard mounting plate.
It must be as long and wide as the Amiga 1200's motherboard and any board plugged in. Holes are drilled into the sub-chassis and stand-offs are installed. Then the Amiga 1200 motherboard is firmly screwed onto those stand-offs.
Again, you deserve to fail by your own devices if you've bought a case too small for the computer you're installing in it. The motherboard can be secured to brackets mounted anywhere they're needed, and doesn't need a mounting plate at all.
Any addon board that is plugged into the "trapdoor" expansion port must also be mounted on stand-offs.
... Because they'll also be mounted on the stand-offs designed for them inside the original A1200 trapdoor space? Any device designed to be mounted in the trapdoor slot will be happy to sit on top of the trapdoor edge connector in a tower with maybe a cable tie or similar to stop it from moving too much. If possible, maybe a screw through a hole for additional security onto a bracket mounted nearby, but you can get away without it.
Yes, it requires a certain level of skill, but we're not talking about replacing an on-board SMT chip or anything. What's the problem? And what's the problem with using an internal scandoubler? I've used one in mine for years without a single problem.
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@Everyone
Please stay on topic or posts will get moderated. If you have an issue with someone contact an Admin.
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Apologies to the original poster, I was being facetious in the manner of an 'in joke' [and as such my wry humour was not directed at you, but at some of the regulars] . Sorry for being unhelpful, I couldn't resist it.
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@Argo:
I agree with you, but do not be fooled as it seems that Doomy has returned.
(http://www.x56h34.com/amiga/doomyreturn.gif)
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eco: i used a heavy bolt which i glued (with therm glue (heat resistant) a frame , making the scandoubler/ff stay inplace , i also did the same for clockport stuff etc , in general not good as airflow is important (in mine anyway) .
basically if u want to move the amiga around then just unplug the stuff u think might fallout (bppc ESPECIALLY!) and just put it back and look over all before you fire up your beast again..
thats basically the best tip i can give.
sadly its a shame that doom master took over this thread ;( ..
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Cyberus wrote:
You do NOT know what you are talking about!
Don't bother with the A1200, it is a toy computer. You should get an A2000, or the A1500 or A2500. These are the flagship Amiga computers. I personally own 3 of these professional computers:-D
For a toy, it is not all that dissimilar from an A2000, 3000, 4000, or any big-box variant. I towered my A1200 into a custom PC tower, and I have spent lots of money on add-ons and stuff, and I would not swap it for any other Amiga in the world. True, a big-box amiga is easier to work on and more stable, but anyone wanting to tower a 1200 has to be expecting a challenge, and understands there will be problems and hassle.
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@ Daedalus
I'm really sorry, I was trolling in the manner of another well-known poster here on AOrg. I have learned in a few minutes that it was a very foolish thing to do...
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*LOL* Cyberus, no problem... I kinda replied too quickly and didn't see the humour :)
Anyway, Eco, for our BlizzardPPC, how far away from the PSU is it? Would it be possible to construct some kind of bracket that you could mount on the PSU and use for securing the board? Maybe even a block of wood glued to the underside of the PSU, and put a well insulated screw through any mounting holes on the board? Or even a couple of cable ties around the upper part of the board and the bock or wood?
As for the Scandoubler, I have a similar one in my tower but haven't had any trouble with it falling off... You sure you pushed it really hard onto the chips, and that the tops of its sockets are touching the A1200's motherboard all the way around? Mine required a fair bit of force to get to sit right, but hasn't moved since. Failing that, a couple of cable ties may be passed through the hard drive holder holes on the motherboard (I'm assuming you aren't using the holder) and used to secure the scandoubler enough to stop it causing trouble.
As you may have guessed, I'm a big fan of cable ties ;-)
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We seem to be reclaiming the thread :-D
I'm actually quite satisfied with my A1200 tower right now, but as you know there are always things to improve. The attachement of the sd/ff and BPPC are just two details to attend to.
Any other ideas on attachment methods, particularly for the BPPC? So far the tally is:
-Tape down the sd/ff using non-conductive tape (mentioned in another thread)
-Build a support frame (using a bolt, etc) that secures the sd/ff in place
-Attach BPPC with standoffs (not possible in my case)
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hmm with the BPPC... is it in line with your 5.25" bays? here I have a large piece of stiff card cut to the same width of my 5.25" drive bays with a notch cut out at the other end, which the BPPC card sits inside of, that stops it from moving from side to side...
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i will have to patch up my mediator etc before i go to AMIGBG.
will be hard as all is hanging loose , i am using a towerhawk2c tower which isnt meant for mediator ;(
i need to find a way to mount the brackets atleast....
2 years now..and i still havent done diddly squat with it ;(
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Edited by Argo: Off-Topic, insult
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Edited by Argo: Off-topic
BTW your post count is currently '666' woooo!!! :)
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@eco
I don't know if this is a good idea, but one guy who used to post here had an a600 accelerator that attached in a similar way, he mentioned gluing it on with superglue on the top of the amigas 68000 chip.
Ofcourse it depends on just how secure you want the scsndoubler/ff :-D
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Yeah supposedly superglue works with RAM chips too, so it could work with any socketed item...
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That just sounds wrong. My girlfriend's first computer, a PowerSpec, had all its connectors and ram hotglued in place. Made upgrading that cheap piece of crap annoying.
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@Eco
My A1200t has an internal flixer made by DCE I go everywhere with that stupid bugger and it has never come off. The cards in the Mediator pop out a little. If I hit some really major Potholes.
But if yours comes loose the only suggestion I can think of is a little hot glue tacked in the corners. The blizppc is another matter altogether over the years I have tried different things the easiest and works rather well. took a small platic clamp drilled a hole in it and mounted it with a screw on a standoff on the mounting hole by the accelerator. the clamp then holds my accellerator. On my Dream and Gear cases the clearance is so little once your put the top on with a mediator a small piece of soft rubber included wedges that sucker real good.
also I use a really sweet pair of straps from CaseAce that makes carrying around my tower case easy I also have their straps for my monitors I used to use their monitor stap with my 1764. I now however use thier LCD monitor holder with my 19 inch LCD. saves the back big time compared to a 21" CRT.
Kgrach
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@ jeffimix
you Can't use Superglue or hot glue on anything the gets hot. Thats how I remove screws and stuff that people super glued. I hit it with my hot air pencil and soften the glue right up
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Only the second part of my internal scandoubler is a loose fit; the simple part where the two wires come from. Looking at it, it seems like a simple enough job to just use a bit of hot glue or two-sided tape to hold it to the chip.
I'll look into holding the BPPC down with some sort of clamp. I really feel it should not be moving from side to side . :-o
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I fit my chip-on-chip Keyboard Adapter with hot glue too... (a little on every end)
with your other prob... do you have a picture of it??
@all : keeping your a1200 into a tower isn´t complicated as you use the same rules as on pc or others!! my A1200 is 99% ready ;-))
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I don't have a picture of the thing. Maybe I could swivel my webcam and take some shots when I get home from work.
The problem is basically that the BPPC can tilt from side to side from the non-connected end, even when tilting the tower slightly for maintenance operations, etc. This is basically not very good for the connection, and with the BVision attached, it moves as well.
The BPPC cannot separate from the connector, but this is a legitimate "build quality" issue for my tower.
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send some shots and we will see :-D
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My biggest gripe about the blizppc is that the CPUs sit on the 'outside' of the card - ie towards the side panel.
This means I have no room to fan them directly in my tower, so even my 040 is passively cooled with a (fairly chunky) heatsink. It actually touches the side panel in my case - however, that does tend to give me a rather large passive cooling surface ;-)
I really need to find some more of those really low profile 486 fan heatsink combos...
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Ok, here's a shot of the the card when I hold it straight with a finger:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/esko.hellgren/Straight.jpg)
Here is how it tilts when released (always tilts toward the inside of the case):
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/esko.hellgren/Tilted.jpg)
I noticed there is a very small hole at the top of the card which could be used for mounting . Here is a nice location for a holding clamp:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/esko.hellgren/Clamping.jpg)
Edit: Free image hosting my 4ss.
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Hmm nice X shots :-)
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Do NOT use that kind of scandoubler / flickerfixer. Instead, use an external one that plugs into the RGB video port. Most of you guys do NOT know how to properly build an Amiga 1200 tower. I have seen many pictures of people's Amiga 1200 towers and they look like crap.
Using an external flicker fixer results in a lower quality signal (the video having already been converted to analog and needing to be converted back to digital, and then back to analog, once outside the box). Internal flicker fixers would be a far prefereable solution.
blakespot
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Hmmm... Can't see from those shots, but how close is the metal panel right behind the board? Where the Ram is? Any chance of a shot pointing the other direction? If it's close enough it could be secured to that panel or something in between, maybe using that small hole you pointed out. Again, cable ties could be your friend here :-) A pic from the trong-side of the tower and a further back shot showing the back of the tower would definitely help here anyway.
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The metal behind the board is the psu, as you can see from this shot from behind the case:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/esko.hellgren/Back.jpg)
The distance between the card and the psu surface is approximately 4 cm when the card is straight:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/esko.hellgren/Above.jpg)
There are actually two metal clips with a hole, sticking out from the psu (the top one is visible in this picture):
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/esko.hellgren/Front.jpg)
Now that I'm thinking about it, the optimum solution would be to use these two clips and build some sort of support against which the card could lean. Remember that the card always leans toward the inside of the case. The one place where the card can safely lean on something is the black plastic strip between the memory connectors.
This would appear to be a good solution, since the card could still be removed without having to remove the support. Maybe I could even make it so that a fan can be pointed downward along the card, instead of the 80mm can you see in the pics being pointed "kind of toward the card". Observe the professional use of zip ties to hold the fan :-D
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Hey, been away for a while (and took forever to get through doomy's flames ;-) ) but yes! those screw holes are put on genaric PS units for diff. mounting possitions.
Their are PC motherboard stands that are shaped like a "C" or more like a "G" with a screw whole clip at the bottom of the clip.
This MIGHT be what you are looking for as it woulf mount into the top whole with out much modification...
Good Luck, I had to use a power drill and tin snips with my A1200 tower so Ifeel for ya.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
Edited by Argo: Off-topic
BTW your post count is currently '666' woooo!!! :)
:-?
What?? What did I do wrong?
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iamaboringperson wrote:
iamaboringperson wrote:
Edited by Argo: Off-topic
BTW your post count is currently '666' woooo!!! :)
:-?
What?? What did I do wrong?
lol, mine was edited too, but I called doomy a kitty or something...