Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: XDelusion on November 05, 2013, 11:38:11 PM

Title: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: XDelusion on November 05, 2013, 11:38:11 PM
So I scored a Yamaha FB-01 for really cheap and it was said to be in perfect working order, the thing is though that the volume on the right is lower and a lot more flat than the left.
 I have tried different cables, inputs, and have messed with the internal settings but nothing has resolved this.
 I'd really love to use this with OctaMED, but not in this condition.

 Anyone know of any where in the states to get old vintage musick gear repaired?
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Iggy on November 05, 2013, 11:59:59 PM
I had a quick look at the specs for the Yamaha FB-01, thinking it might be something simple like a volume slider distorting what should be otherwise pure digital sound.
And...there aren't any analog controls on this thing what so ever.
Are there Chris?

Good luck with this one.
Oh, if you ever take it apart, let me know what's inside.
I still get a kick out of old Yamaha FM synthesis components.
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: XDelusion on November 06, 2013, 01:02:39 AM
No sliders, except in the PeeSea software to configure the thing... which I tested.

Here's some images for your gear lust. As you can see, no knobs, she's flat chested. :/

(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=142&pictureid=1134)

(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=142&pictureid=1133)

(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=142&pictureid=1132)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: mongo on November 06, 2013, 01:03:29 AM
http://manuals.fdiskc.com/tree/Yamaha/Yamaha%20FB-01%20Service%20Manual.pdf
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Iggy on November 06, 2013, 01:37:45 AM
Quote from: mongo;751935
http://manuals.fdiskc.com/tree/Yamaha/Yamaha%20FB-01%20Service%20Manual.pdf


Man, that was very nice of you.

"no knobs, she's flat chested"
Ah, but she's beautiful just the way she  is, Chris.
I would have thought it would be more complex, but I only see one or two ICs that could be responsible for the actual FM synthesis.

The rest appears to be memory and buffer ICs.

You know, your original post about building something like this from parts looks far more practical than I originally thought.
I'm surprised that no one builds copies of these things.
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: ciento on November 06, 2013, 01:43:03 AM
Inner Sound in Portland Oregon

http://www.inner-sound.com

but it won't be affordable
unless you are a star, or  you have a very high-end gear.

If there is a visible fault on the circuit board, or connectors,
it might be cheaper, only if the flaw is indeed the problem,
but still cheaper to buy another FB-01, use it till it drops,
and keep your lame one for parts.

Without a visible flaw, the diagnostic cost is even higher.

I think the initial estimate is just under $100, only to tell you that it
will be xxx hundred to replace the main componant, to test further.

Maybe you could try setting up a multi-band EQ rack, to compensate for
the flawed output?
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: XDelusion on November 06, 2013, 01:47:18 AM
You're right, it's all in the personality, not the knobs anyhow, though at the moment, her personality is a little lop sided. I'm hoping I can get this fixed. From what I've heard out of her so far, I'm in love!

 Would love to see a clone with knobs come about! Or something like this with a SID or two inside.
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Iggy on November 06, 2013, 02:36:11 AM
Quote from: XDelusion;751939
You're right, it's all in the personality, not the knobs anyhow, though at the moment, her personality is a little lop sided. I'm hoping I can get this fixed. From what I've heard out of her so far, I'm in love!

 Would love to see a clone with knobs come about! Or something like this with a SID or two inside.


Funny you should mention SID chips, since I'm sitting in front of a stack of print outs I made after discussing  the Kiwi SBC with Nicholas (the Kiwi uses two SID chips).
I'm going to have to research your synthesizer a little more, but I don't see why stuff like this couldn't be built.
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Iggy on November 06, 2013, 02:46:44 AM
Uh oh.
I spoke too soon.

http://manuals.fdiskc.com/tree/Yamah...e%20Manual.pdf

Huh?

That takes me nowhere.

Yo, Mongo!
You sure that's the right address?
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: commodorejohn on November 06, 2013, 02:54:09 AM
Quote from: Iggy;751936
I would have thought it would be more complex, but I only see one or two ICs that could be responsible for the actual FM synthesis.
AFAIK, the only FM synths with an even halfway complex layout were the DX7 series, which divvied up the sound-generation responsibilities between two chips (one for envelope generators, one for the actual operators) and the requisite DACs. Past that, they pretty much made all their FM stuff as single-chip solutions (although outboard DACs were still commonly required,) which I'm sure had a lot to do with the popularity of the things in arcade boards and Japanese home computers.

As for the unit, I'd look into recapping it before you go shipping it off somewhere, since that looks to be pretty easily doable and can often be a quick fix for analog-type issues (as this sounds like.) Though on the other hand you might just try to get your money back and buy one that's actually in perfect working order.

And for the record, the PDF Mongo was trying to link is here. (http://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/Yamaha%2520FB-01%2520Service%2520Manual.pdf)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Kesa on November 06, 2013, 03:12:54 AM
While we are talking about unrelated Amiga Yamaha's check out this f**ker

(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31600000/YAMAHA-V-MAX-motorcycles-31692882-800-600.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: XDelusion on November 06, 2013, 05:14:01 AM
Does it support MIDI?

Quote from: Kesa;751945
While we are talking about unrelated Amiga Yamaha's check out this f**ker

(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31600000/YAMAHA-V-MAX-motorcycles-31692882-800-600.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: gertsy on November 06, 2013, 06:45:48 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;751943
AFAIK, the only FM synths with an even halfway complex layout were the DX7 series, which divvied up the sound-generation responsibilities between two chips (one for envelope generators, one for the actual operators) and the requisite DACs. Past that, they pretty much made all their FM stuff as single-chip solutions (although outboard DACs were still commonly required,) which I'm sure had a lot to do with the popularity of the things in arcade boards and Japanese home......


Actually the FB01 is the module version of the DX27/DX100 the 4 Operator versions of the DX7 without the filters. But it still sounds great. I especially remember the Orchestra, Drawbars and a slider ping/pong sound I cant remember the name of.

Pity about the sound issue.

It could be the Caps...
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: TCMSLP on November 06, 2013, 09:25:30 AM
Likewise, I'd suggest caps, especially any around the amplifier (op-amp I guess), section.

I'd also check for dry joints around the output connectors - but in this case, perhaps unlikely.


Steve
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Iggy on November 06, 2013, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: Kesa;751945
While we are talking about unrelated Amiga Yamaha's check out this f**ker

(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31600000/YAMAHA-V-MAX-motorcycles-31692882-800-600.jpg)

I always like the model, but the one you've pictured actually looks nice.
The early models look the the bast*rd progeny of a muscle bike that was raped by a steam calliope.

Oh, and I downloaded the FB-01's service manual if anyone has trouble finding it.
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: XDelusion on November 10, 2013, 11:48:13 PM
Well, as fate would have it. Opening it up, pushing down the chips, and blowing it out seems to have done the trick. It works now, and works with the Amiga, though I'm still trying to figure out how to access all eight instruments instead of just one. :)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: commodorejohn on November 11, 2013, 12:00:46 AM
Rock on! As for the eight instruments, the FB-01 (along with some of Yamaha's other early multitimbral synths like the TX81Z) uses a rather awkward system of "performances" or "configurations," where a "performance" specifies which of the eight parts have how many voices assigned to them, which of the stereo channels they come over, and some other assorted parameters. This is all detailed in the manual, a PDF of which can be found here. (http://www.soundprogramming.net/manuals/Yamaha_FB-01_Manual.pdf) It's kind of irritating and awkward, especially when its contemporary the MT-32 has such a perfectly nice, no-nonsense multitimbral mode (well, except for that thing with MIDI channel 1 being disabled by default,) but eh, it is what it is. (At least they fixed it with the introduction of the V50.) I suspect that most games probably assigned one voice to each of the first 8 MIDI channels and sequenced them separately.
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: commodorejohn on November 11, 2013, 12:21:54 AM
Oh, and by the way, there's a patch librarian/editor for Windows/Linux here, (http://sourceforge.net/projects/fb01editor/) and one for the Amiga here. (http://aminet.net/package/mus/midi/FB-01) Some patches can be found here (https://web.archive.org/web/20051130161837/http://www.aracnet.com/~tloepp/support/fb01.html) and here. (http://ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/midi/patches/FB01/)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Ral-Clan on November 11, 2013, 01:04:25 AM
Unless you really need an integral keyboard, the FB-01 is a very useful tone module and makes a lot more sense than buying a DX9/21/100.  It sounds exactly the same but has multi-timbral capability.

I had one and only sold it because I got a TX81z and didn't need two 4-op boxes (anything the FB-01 could do could be taken care of by the TX81z).
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: XDelusion on November 11, 2013, 03:15:15 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;752443
Oh, and by the way, there's a patch librarian/editor for Windows/Linux here, (http://sourceforge.net/projects/fb01editor/) and one for the Amiga here. (http://aminet.net/package/mus/midi/FB-01) Some patches can be found here (https://web.archive.org/web/20051130161837/http://www.aracnet.com/~tloepp/support/fb01.html) and here. (http://ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/midi/patches/FB01/)


GREAT links, thanks!
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: commodorejohn on November 11, 2013, 03:52:46 AM
No problem. Glad to welcome another into the wonderful world of FM synthesis :)
Title: Re: Yamaha FB-01 Repairs? Not totally Amiga related...
Post by: Plaz on November 11, 2013, 04:04:06 AM
The digital to analog circuits are in the upper right corner of that picture. The transistors, caps and 8 legged op-amps would be suspects.

Try this link instead to the manual. And it was very slow to download for me.

http://tinyurl.com/FB01Manual

Edit: Looking through the schematics C2 and C3 catch my attention as 47uf/16v non polar dielectric capacitors. Regular caps fading after 20 years, non-polars even faster.

Plaz