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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: matt3k on November 05, 2013, 04:01:17 AM
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Curious what accounting software was written for the Amiga? I have compiled and tested a list and was wondering what was out there...
So far only Easy Ledger (1 + 2) is the only one with subledgers for AP and AR that I have found. Does agings and billing, etc. Haven't finished testing it yet.
All the other ones seem to be for home use...
Phasar is decent for home with budgets use but the reporting is limiting.
CheckItOut is a very nice home checkbook with budgeting and decent reports. This is my favorite this far for home use.
Pretium - Decent, similar to CIO but not quite as nice (IMHO) for daily use.
Homebank - Decent but not as nice as the other top contenders.
Money Matters - Don't know this one, looks like another home use system.
A few other aminet based accounting systems are home based systems....
Anyone using their Amiga for accounting?
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No, but I may have a use for such in the coming months.
Are any of these packages currently maintained and up to date with current legislation? Also, are these packages based on US/UK/EU legislation?
Please do continue this thread.
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There are several online solutions now.
But an Accounting program should'nt be to difficult to make.
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Exactly. Nothing but a glorified spreadsheet in my opinion. In today's world I would expect any accounting software be able to make transactions online automatically which might be a problem on the Amiga.
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Well online transactions would require some form of connection to an online banking account. Personally I would prefer to have those two separated.
I have plenty of experience with various accounting systems, so I more or less know what is required, at least for the danish market, the only problem for me, is that I find it incredibly boring to code.
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Exactly. Nothing but a glorified spreadsheet in my opinion. In today's world I would expect any accounting software be able to make transactions online automatically which might be a problem on the Amiga.
You make spreadsheets sound easy on Amigas. You'll be challenged to find any decent spreadsheet software for Amigas, let alone up-to-date accounting software.. AmiCygnix probably has the best spreadsheet support though.
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You make spreadsheets sound easy on Amigas. You'll be challenged to find any decent spreadsheet software for Amigas, let alone up-to-date accounting software.. AmiCygnix probably has the best spreadsheet support though.
GNumeric is a very nice spreadsheet especially since the revision where you can start it straight from Workbench without loading up AmiCygnix. I've got some very very large & complicated spreadsheets I use for work and GNumeric runs them great.
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Agreed programming wouldn't be a monumental task, but there are lots of potential issues that come into play if you want to build a real GAAP Compliant accounting system with subledgers, control accounts, and transaction controls.
Not one of the accounting systems I have tested is a 'real' accounting system that could be used in an industry.
From my search only Easy Ledger offers subledgers, and I haven't tested transaction controls of it yet.
Building a good reporting and budgeting system might take same time to get it nice would be a bonus. Since most of the software I have tested, reporting is the weakest area.
Will keep testing and let you all know.
Any other accounting software out there???
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You make spreadsheets sound easy on Amigas. You'll be challenged to find any decent spreadsheet software for Amigas, let alone up-to-date accounting software.. AmiCygnix probably has the best spreadsheet support though.
Never used AmiCygnix. Thanks for the tip... I use turbocalc 5. Does the job but, as you mentioned, sorely lacks modern features...
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GNumeric is a very nice spreadsheet especially since the revision where you can start it straight from Workbench without loading up AmiCygnix. I've got some very very large & complicated spreadsheets I use for work and GNumeric runs them great.
Will check this one out. Appreciate the tip.
TC5, is decent but hasn't be updated since the late 90's....
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There are several online solutions now.
But an Accounting program should'nt be to difficult to make.
That sounds like the software developer's equivalent to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVE09yyznfc). We all know what happens when he says that. :D
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there is Lüttje Bookholler which is a pretty new AOS4 accounting software
http://aminet.net/package/biz/misc/luettjebookholler
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http://www.e-conomic.co.uk/ here in Denmark it's one of the systems that is usually recommended. There is also Microsoft Navision online.
C5 Online, http://www.c5online.nu this page is in danish, but I guess you can get it in other langauges. C5 really have everything that is needed.
There really is no need to reinvent CRM/ERP programs.
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http://aminet.net/package/biz/misc/ultraacc
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http://www.e-conomic.co.uk/ here in Denmark it's one of the systems that is usually recommended. There is also Microsoft Navision online.
C5 Online, http://www.c5online.nu this page is in danish, but I guess you can get it in other langauges. C5 really have everything that is needed.
There really is no need to reinvent CRM/ERP programs.
Good point, but I would rather run the application natively on my Classic Amiga.
I will keep up the quest for find the best Amiga Accounting Solution!
Regards,
M
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I don't think having dedicated accounting software is required for personal use. Except maybe if you wanted it to go online or something. The problem i have with accounting software is that much of it is not neccessary and just gets in the way. I use Excel 97 which has templates built in which is enough for my personal use and it's really simple to use. Personally i think Libre Office would be the best choice for the Amiga if it ever comes out. But maybe this would not be enough if you wanted to do more than just bookkeeping.
What type of accounting did you want to do out of curiosity?
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I don't think having dedicated accounting software is required for personal use. Except maybe if you wanted it to go online or something. The problem i have with accounting software is that much of it is not neccessary and just gets in the way. I use Excel 97 which has templates built in which is enough for my personal use and it's really simple to use. Personally i think Libre Office would be the best choice for the Amiga if it ever comes out. But maybe this would not be enough if you wanted to do more than just bookkeeping.
What type of accounting did you want to do out of curiosity?
Its twofold.
1. Looking to replace CheckItOut, which I currently use for my home finances. As it stands, I will probably be keeping it for that task. I tested Phasar, which has some better features, but the reporting and data entry is dicey.
2. I'm helping out with a very small local nonprofit. I need real subledger and decent controls and billing. So far the only contender is Easy Ledger, I have to further test it to be sure...
Shame the Amiga doesn't have more to offer here, I'm certain that there are other capable accounting systems that were lost in time...
Take care,
M
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http://aminet.net/search?query=accounting This search gives you a few choices. I am at work now, so I can't try any of them right now.
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@kesa there is a huge difference between personal and business use of accounting software.
In the business you might want to keep track of stock, have a list of debtors and creditors, create bills and other forms, keep track of VAT, which might be a different percentage from item to item and so on.
Maybe you would also like it to keep track of salary and other employee related numbers.
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http://aminet.net/search?query=accounting This search gives you a few choices. I am at work now, so I can't try any of them right now.
I tried them all as part of this experiment... All of them were home accounting except the demo for easy ledger 2.
@Kesa,
As yssing said real accounting use is vastly different from home use. Every amiga home accounting system would not pass an audit and make the management letter. GAAP forbids deleting historical transactions without a reversing entry, for example. Even entry systems on the PC (quickbooks and peachtree/sage 50) allow for historical deleting without and audit trail and can fail the audit (depending on the cpa firm)
That aside, running even a simple ap/ar aging from a spreadsheet would be a real pain.
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What i meant was that modern accounting software has so many features that most will never be used. Things like tax and payroll. I have seen experienced charted accountants baffled at some of the things in some of the software. I think a lot of it is just bloatware.
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@kesa I agree with you, there are a lot of features, that the home user will never use.
@matt3k Here in Denmark you are required by law, to save every thing in your records for 5 years, I don't know how it is in other countries, but I would guess that it is similar.
I have experience with accounting software, I have developed stuff in C5 and used XAL before, I even had a crash course in SAP.
By the way, there has to be something for QT.
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@matt3k Here in Denmark you are required by law, to save every thing in your records for 5 years, I don't know how it is in other countries, but I would guess that it is similar.
Here in NZ, the time limit id 7 years. However, if the IRD deem a tax return to be fraudulent, then there is no time limit on how far back they can go. So, keeping records for longer is worth considering.
Hans
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@Yssing and Hans.
Retention is important agreed and most software I have come across can retain multiple years without and issue.
The big issue is deletion of prior year activity without an audit trail. In entry level software it is easy to write yourself a check by changing a vendor name, printing a check, and then renaming the vendor back. Or simply delete a check or entry and invalid financial statements. Fraud controls like vendor level tracking and requiring a reversing entry to adjust balances are hard to find in Amiga circa 80-90's software :).
Still have to play with Easy Ledgers 1 a bit to see how good it is...
Fun exercise anyways...
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I am interested in using Amiga. At present using accounting services (https://zipbooks.com/bookkeeping-services/) from Zipbooks. We need to maintain double entry system and its a bit difficult. Balance sheet, Cash Flow Statement and General Ledger are very important to me.
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What accounting software you can use on the Amiga depends on 2 big factors. Your local trading laws, and what Amiga you want to use.
Typically, most people doing this are very small businesses to medium businesses doing their own accounts. So even a very simple package like Easy Ledger might fit the bill. If you do your own, you certainly can use an Amiga for basic accounting. Accountants aren't allowed to anymore.
https://www.mcguirewoods.com/Client-Resources/Alerts/2015/2/New-EU-Accounting-Directive.aspx
If you are SELLING accountancy services, for use in the EU, it just won't do what is needed to comply with the new EU accountancy regulations.
Why is complex, but it boils down to this with Amiga releases and EU history;- Prior to 1993, nothing had to be compliant with an EU standard, but might require local rubber stamping as "suitable for use" when selling accounting services. Most packages didn't really take import/export affairs into consideration as well as you would need now, but were OK, if you can stand the look of the thing. Some of it was written in Hisoft Basic or even AMOS, the PD versions (freeware, not open source usually). Even that could do your job, if you look, and check it will run on your local Amiga.
If you are doing your own accounts, it doesn't matter. If you are using accountancy services, THEY have to comply and are hiking their prices.
In my neighbourhood, UK, All PLCs have to be independently audited, they pay the bill, but don't have to use EU compliant accounting software so long as they can present legitimate records to the auditor (who must use EU complaint methods to assess it and either pass or fail the set of accounts). Sole traders do their own accounts, don't get audited very often, and wave two fingers at the EU and everybody else except their local tax service. Who don't have to talk to anyone except the local ruling class.
What does matter if you are a sole trader is submitting tax returns, and I'd better get mine sorted quickly, I'm 4 years late already. Got another 16 years before I'm as bad as Donald Trump with things like that.
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Trump's taxes are up to date and compliant.
Keep your own house in order.
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Hi Jeff,
The only solution I have come across is easy ledgers, but the reporting is not very robust (at least in version 1, haven't found version 2 yet). There was another accounting system back in the day, think it was a billing system with accounting...
Most of the systems are simple check registers, some with quickbooks functions.
An indirect or direct Cash flow statement will be a real chore to find on the Amiga, and I would wager doesn't exist in any accounting software...
When I get my mess of amigas put together I will take a look to confirm that easy ledger doesn't do cash flow...
CheckItOut is a nice, simple, get the job done simple accounting software. Sadly I don't know if you will be able to track down the author to get a key for it. Go to Aminet and try it out...
I am interested in using Amiga. At present using accounting services (https://zipbooks.com/bookkeeping-services/) from Zipbooks. We need to maintain double entry system and its a bit difficult. Balance sheet, Cash Flow Statement and General Ledger are very important to me.
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Well, I don't know what happened. Because there were DOZENS of choices released. I don't know what happened to this one, but they were out there, and probably still are, mostly. I find it hilarious that the Amiga is being considered for this role 25 years later, but economics plays funny tricks on us all.
http://amr.abime.net/issue_194_coverdisks
:) Guess who wrote. And had to get corrected multiple times doing so, it's true.
That one was good with a real time clock, did cashflow in real time or near as dammit. I don't know if it's suitable, but you could get SuperBase (SuperCalc?) for the Amiga, so you have thousands of possible archaic choices really. PFM an early one that was OK. Not for large operations. Time is not easy to account for on a global scale, not much from that era did really. Ideally you would want to check and correct the clock every so often, they were not that accurate to the second for an infiite period. It's not Rugby Radio clock or whatever internet standard.
PFM sticks in my mind, the Superwhatever option(s?) were very expensive and very powerful for datacrunching. That isn't what you want unless you're a crazily talented with them already. Real people and real companies used PFM, it hung around for a while. Pretty solid coding in C I think.
Don't do accounts on a 1.3 Amiga if you can avoid doing so, because you can't use keymaps at all well for different currencies I think. Use 2.0 or later, you want locales etc. 3.1 onwards does it best, but you need a fast system with fast RAM whatever Amiga OS ideally. 7MHz is too slow sometimes, especially later releases that expected more punch. The pretty graphics are a real processor eater sometimes, if you want 256 colour graphics. It's better to stick to lowres or hires grayscale. Or similar simple colours that aren't crippling eyestrainers. If you try and make it look like a half modern PC, it runs a lot slower. It can look like accelerated Mac Classic, pretty elegant and responsive.
The equally free (? Some versions PFM I think) HomeBank app appears to have been sourced from this or other developed Amiga accountancy tool. It is not available for the AmigaOS on a native Amiga machine.
http://homebank.free.fr/
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... Or simply delete a check or entry and invalid financial statements. Fraud controls like vendor level tracking and requiring a reversing entry to adjust balances are hard to find in Amiga circa 80-90's software :).
This is true, none of the software from that era can do proper anti-fraud measures, they are NOT implemented. At all.
I guess it would be possible on some solutions to add those controls via an Arexx port, if that software has such a port that gives forwarding and receiving commands to the accounting system. It is no trivial thing to do that do any good measure. Don't do accountancy for somebody else, but a company does itself not have to comply if they are doing their own accounts. They still have to keep fair accounts and present them for auditing. In England and Wales, they do. "fair" covers quite a bit of ground here.
You could not do that live on an Amiga, hooked up to the internet, doing other peoples accounts, using an Amiga. You could do it on an Amiga, entering data manually. That's two different things entirely. Hooking it up to a network is a little risky. Keeping it offline and feeding written or printed data to it (easily kept for verification) is the more sensible way to go. You don't need accounts to get second by second updates of stock expenditure usually. If you have lots of data you could burn that on a CD-ROM and feed it. You also need to securely record the information you get back out of the accounts package. For further verification, obviously.
I did a search of aminet on "Finance", nothing usable in itself for purpose, some demo contenders maybe, also good demo if you want to learn how Stock Exchanges are played, for real money, in the real world (it's a sim, don't get that amazed).
http://aminet.net/search?query=finance
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Back in the late 80's I found a great shareware accounting program i ran for my business on my A1000. It was everything I needed and worked very well and also intuitive.
Then my very first virus corrupted all my data and more. I don't remember the name but there was always a good quote or timely aphorism at the startup of program. I did use money matters for a while after that.
When I went to the pc quickbooks is all I have ever used.