Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: vox on November 04, 2013, 08:14:04 PM
-
Free for all AmigaOS 4 users
Voice of people is voice of Jah :afro::afro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJkAV1G6cxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haAKz_Nk8qI
-
ummmmmmm where is the pancakes option ?
-
People generally support the systems they own... So it's as good as it can be :)
-
Based on the thread title I was actually expecting this to have been started by TMHGM. ;)
-
People tend to do criticism for improvement, not just for loosing time.
Its part of user experience. And it is supposed to be normal, not just pretending its all good.
-
..but its a bit too late. you have ran so much propaganda in favor of os4 and hyperion in advance.. well, actions as dumb as forcing os4 hardware into amiga hardware database and the like.. and then in the end you have voted with your wallet, even though been warned. you may have been screwed, admittedly, but not in any particular way. you share your destiny with other os4 users. the problem is, your current actions, will not out weight your previous ones, except you do something *really* crazy.
-
Can we put tape over his mouth or bind his hands so he can't type already?!?
-
I vote for superglue. ;)
-
OS4 is garbage. It's around $150 by itself, which is usually included in the price of the expensive hardware it needs to run off of but for some weird reason can't fully support. Also, Hyperion's OS4 benefits Amiga, Inc and their corrupt conservative con-man CEO Bill McEwwen through their licensing agreement and because it uses what little there was to use of the old Amiga OS 3.x source code.
-
I've had nothing but good experiences with Hyperion in regards to support for OS4, going right back to the day I bought my SAM in late 2008. I've found the developers and community extremely friendly and helpful as well, both here and on AW.
Not a single complaint.
-
Can we put tape over his mouth or bind his hands so he can't type already?!?
If you talk about me, why being so violent?
I am having bad experience with Hyperion support forum, and I cant discuss it or you will try to break my fingers? :laughing:
This is X factor explained inna Bosnian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J5nfMoHM8s
-
Can we put tape over his mouth or bind his hands so he can't type already?!?
:roflmao:
HE'S...back!
Hey VOX, we were actually getting used to you at MorphZone (at least when you were discussing a relevant topic).
Why don't you just give this up?
Its not going to change anything.
-
How many reggae music videos has he posted over there? LOL. :quickdraw:
-
@Lionheart, so what do you prefer then?
Old and expensive 68k hw? old Macs? or x86?
-
@Lionheart, so what do you prefer then?
Old and expensive 68k hw? old Macs? or x86?
Not to mention, I don't think McBill makes a cent off it.
Oh, and VOX's reggae post, yeah he continued that at MorphZone.
-
@Lionheart, so what do you prefer then?
Old and expensive 68k hw? old Macs? or x86?
It doesn't really matter if I prefer 68k, x86, or PowerPC when Hyperion can't even fully support the very limited amount of hardware Amiga OS4 can run on. But hypothetically if I had to chose a platform and driver development wasn't an issue, I would at least port it over to ARM.
The price/performance ratio for ARM is much better than it is for PowerPC. It would allow smaller and cheaper systems to be built, which is what Amiga needs since most people will be running it alongside their PC anyway. The last I heard the PA6T-1682M was costing the manufacturer between $550-$615, which is ridiculous.
For the price of the X1000 you get one user, but you could spend the same amount spent manufacturing the X1000 and make more than 7 ARM powered computers and get 7+ users. More users = increased interest in software development. Think about it. Would you rather develop software for a system with 100,000+ users or for a system most people can't afford.
The X1000 may sound good on paper but what good is it if the operating system it's licensed to run doesn't even fully support it? You're paying extra for stuff you're not using. Given that, an ARM processor is more than capable of running Amiga OS4 as well it runs on PowerPC if it is supported.
-
Always nice to hear from an expert. What do you put the little use of old os3.1 sources?
And what hw have you tried?
OS4 is garbage. It's around $150 by itself, which is usually included in the price of the expensive hardware it needs to run off of but for some weird reason can't fully support. Also, Hyperion's OS4 benefits Amiga, Inc and their corrupt conservative con-man CEO Bill McEwwen through their licensing agreement and because it uses what little there was to use of the old Amiga OS 3.x source code.
-
I don't care, because I have nothing I can run it on!
I recently read some details of how it might be possible to run AmigaOS 4 (not 4.1) on a Mac Mini G4 or G5 and possibly Macs with similar specs as well. This involved a loader called Moana. I already knew that UBoot could be set up to check for specific hardware, so this is what prevents AmigaOS 4.1 from running on other Power PC computers.
Can anyone tell me the cheapest way of running AmigaOS 4?
I'm not actually sure I would want to run it, because what would I do with it?
Now I'm just off to do create some graphics with Photon Paint 2, play Eye of the Beholder, and balance my budget with Personal Finance Manager. I will enjoy doing all these activities. Can anyone list some software which does similar things, but only runs on AmigaOS 4 or 4.1?
-
Always nice to hear from an expert. What do you put the little use of old os3.1 sources?
And what hw have you tried?
OS 3.1 was released in 1994, back when the Amiga was still running on 68k hardware. While Hyperion didn't have to waste time cloning and reverse engineering everything, some of that code is 68k assembly and couldn't be used. Even with it Haage & Partner and Hyperion still had to use source code from AROS to build 3.5, 3.9, and 4.x.
-
nevermind..
-
@Lionheart
Hi Vox :D
Haha, nice sockpuppet you have there ;D...
-
@Lionheart
Hi Vox :D
Haha, nice sockpuppet you have there ;D...
O_o ...? My name isn't Vox and I'm certainly no sockpuppet, so I have no idea why you're directing your comment towards me.
-
O_o ...? My name isn't Vox and I'm certainly no sockpuppet, so I have no idea why you're directing your comment towards me.
Of course you don't ;)...
-
Of course you don't ;)...
VOX posted earlier.
AND he doesn't sound like VOX.
-
Of course you don't ;)...
Sorry to disappoint you pal but I'm not Vox (whoever the hell that is). Seems to me that you're in denial about how poorly done Amiga OS4 is that you've convinced yourself that I must be another registered member rather than a new member of this forum. Given how bad OS4 is I guess having a new member is something that is new for you.
-
@Lionheart
LOL, that flamebait doesn't work on me pal, please try little harder ;)
Sorry to disappoint you pal but I'm not Vox (whoever the hell that is). Seems to me that you're in denial about how poorly done Amiga OS4 is that you've convinced yourself that I must be another registered member rather than a new member of this forum. Given how bad OS4 is I guess having a new member is something that is new for you.
In denial... Like you were?
-
It doesn't really matter if I prefer 68k, x86, or PowerPC when Hyperion can't even fully support the very limited amount of hardware Amiga OS4 can run on. But hypothetically if I had to chose a platform and driver development wasn't an issue, I would at least port it over to ARM.
Well then you are in luck, because you can just use AROS in the Pi.
And I would like to know, why you think that AmigaOS is so bad.
-
Many people quite enjoy OS4, Lionheart. If you do not, no one is twisting your arm to buy the hardware and OS. MOS is a far more cost effective way into the NG Amiga scene, and I enjoy MOS as well as I do OS4. I fail to see where the constant bad mouthing of the various NG Amiga platforms gets anyone. The "scene" is already small and separated enough without dividing things further. I'm a paid in full user of both OS4 and MOS, and neither is perfect by a long shot.
If you really want to pick nits about an OS lacking support for things, I picked up a Mac laptop awhile back to run MOS on, only to find out when the supporting version of MOS did finally get released, the onboard wifi was not at all supported. Don't think it is, even now - thankfully I didn't register MOS on that machine, not yet anyways. A laptop without inbuilt wifi support at the OS level effectively made this laptop a paperweight for me, and adding an add on wifi dongle or card defeats the purpose when it knocks your battery life in half - battery life that's already very poor compared to running OSX on the machine. A laptop without native wifi support by the OS, forcing a user to add on a power sucking card or dongle or forcing them to plug into an ethernet cable pretty much nulled out the idea of owning an "Amiga laptop" to me, so how's about we don't pull the "OMG NO SUPPORT FOR XXX THING IN XXX OPERATING SYSTEM" gag, cause there's issues on *all* sides.
The old "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" saying holds very true in this case regardless of entirely destructive and degenerating to the scene blue vs. red camp warfare nonsense.
-
I've never understood the need to bash OS4 by people who don't use it.... but all it does is drive a thicker wedge between groups of Amiga users.
AmigaOS 4's existence does not suddenly mean that 68K Amigas stop working - it's quite possible to completely ignore it if you don't like it.
Not entirely sure where the idea that "AmigaOS 4 is so bad" came from anyway... must have been using a different OS4 to me, as mine is pretty awesome really.
-
The whole thread came about, once again - by the OP, who admittedly went into personal debt to buy an X1000 and OS4 without doing his homework about what is or is not supported onboard by the hardware by the OS. He then went on a tangent about how he was going to sue Hyperion and A-EON because he didn't do any fact checking.
After he got laughed out of the building on that, he became an ardent MOS supporter and was buying a SAM 460. He proceeded to go to Morph Zone with tinfoil hat on head and pretty much alienated himself there as well.
When anyone points out flaws and insanity in his logic, he whips out the "I AM A LEARNED AND JUST MAN DUE TO JAH AND REGGAE!" and posts links to some reggae video that for whatever reason to him seem to explain away the fact he went into hock buying an expensive computer without checking what it could or could not do. Pretty much the gist of it, and it makes the old Doomy antics seem sane, lol.
And I agree, the factional nonsense is what's hammering the nails into the coffin of what is already a very skint amount of collective users in the Amiga scene. It's mutually assured destruction and has caused people to retract from the community, if not the hobby itself.
Then again, maybe I'm being too logical. If something is too costly, or doesn't do something that I require, I simply don't purchase it and refrain from polluting the scene as a whole if I can avoid doing so. Personal choice is a truly wonderful thing, and there's enough options in this day and age to have everyone covered regardless of what they prefer.
-
@Lionheart
LOL, that flamebait doesn't work on me pal, please try little harder ;)
In denial... Like you were?
Flamebait? You accused me of being someone named Vox. I'm merely pointing out the reason behind your accusation.
And I would like to know, why you think that AmigaOS is so bad.
Beyond being called "AmigaOS" what does it have to offer? It's only selling point is the name, which it licenses from Amiga Inc. (a company run by a con-artist and used as a shell company for tax evasion)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/138/708g.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/3u708gj)
Alone it costs around $150, but this price is usually included within the sale of a new motherboard or system. Now does $150 seem worth it to you for something that can't even fully support the very limited amount of hardware it needs to run on? Add on to that the ridiculously expensive hardware and you got a system most people can't afford and an operating system that offers nothing exclusive beyond the name.
I've never understood the need to bash OS4 by people who don't use it.... but all it does is drive a thicker wedge between groups of Amiga users.
People not being able to use it is the problem. The fact that it requires expensive hardware most people can't afford limits the audience and interest in software development. Continuing this kind of business model will end in failure.
The whole thread came about, once again - by the OP, who admittedly went into personal debt to buy an X1000 and OS4 without doing his homework about what is or is not supported onboard by the hardware by the OS. He then went on a tangent about how he was going to sue Hyperion and A-EON because he didn't do any fact checking.
If you have to go into personal debt to buy an X1000 and OS4, you have a problem with your priorities. I agree that he should have done his research. However, A-EON does deserve some blame since they're selling the X1000 with Amiga OS4 and advertise features they know it doesn't support. If you even look on their page for the X1000: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x1000 they're still advertising their Amiga OS4 system with features that the OS they've included doesn't support and without disclaiming which ones are not supported. Legally, this could be considered false advertisement since Amiga OS4 and features that it doesn't support are being advertised with it.
-
The price, is not higher than a windows licens.
Hardware comes as cheap as the SAM440, which is rather cheap.
A-EON deserves no blame, the produce and delivers, if you don't want to buy their hardware, then don't.
But why don't you just get a Pi with Aros, drink a nice cup of coffee and STFU!
-
[...] A-EON does deserve some blame since they're selling the X1000 with Amiga OS4 and advertise features they know it doesn't support. If you even look on their page for the X1000: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x1000 they're still advertising their Amiga OS4 system with features that the OS they've included doesn't support and without disclaiming which ones are not supported. Legally, this could be considered false advertisement since Amiga OS4 and features that it doesn't support are being advertised with it.
I sincerely doubt it, since they disclaim in the page you linked to that specs are valid at time of writing and subject to change. Also, they aren't selling the product through that website.
At the point of sale (Amigakit) there is a concise summary of which drivers are still in development on the specs page, as well as an FAQ which states clearly that only one core is used by AmigaOS (with a suitably vague forward looking statement wft future support for multiple cores).
I'm not going to beat the drum for Hyperion (I wouldn't buy a used A1200 from them after the last few years of shenanigans) but A-Eon have produced hardware which does what it says in the specs, are fairly up-front about the level of support for hardware in AmigaOS (XENA info seems pretty inflated given the lack of use), and aren't trying to hide information from anyone afaics. And I say that as someone who disagrees with most of their design choices. ;)
-
Or you could just "join us" (I love that phrase, its so Sam Raimi), with our just as high license fee and lower hardware cost, and learn what AOS could have become even before work was started on AOS4.
Then again, I actually find myself sticking up for OS4.
Its steadily (if slowly) improving, and as it is based on OS3.1, it IS an Amiga OS product.
-
The price, is not higher than a windows licens.
Hardware comes as cheap as the SAM440, which is rather cheap.
A-EON deserves no blame, the produce and delivers, if you don't want to buy their hardware, then don't.
But why don't you just get a Pi with Aros, drink a nice cup of coffee and STFU!
The price/performance ratio of the Sam440 is a joke and its performance is on par with a used Mac running a PowerPC 750cxe. Its only selling point is being able to run Amiga OS4 and even with that it's still not worth it.
I sincerely doubt it, since they disclaim in the page you linked to that specs are valid at time of writing and subject to change. Also, they aren't selling the product through that website.
Saying that the specifications are valid from July 2012 and are subject to change doesn't change the fact that some features advertised were never supported to begin with. The fact that they're not selling it directly on their site is irrelevant since they link to the site where you can buy it and because the issue is not where you buy it but rather how it is being advertised by the company that makes it.
-
Or you could just "join us" (I love that phrase, its so Sam Raimi), with our just as high license fee and lower hardware cost, and learn what AOS could have become even before work was started on AOS4.
Then again, I actually find myself sticking up for OS4.
Its steadily (if slowly) improving, and as it is based on OS3.1, it IS an Amiga OS product.
Well according to Hyperion, AROS is apparently also built on OS 3.1's source code along with MorphOS. :razz:
Of course those statements are false and were only used by Hyperion to spread FUD to slow their development. AROS has been around since 1996 and had to waste time cloning and reverse engineering everything. Even though Hyperion already had the 3.1 source code, some of that code is 68k assembly and couldn't be used. Operating systems have changed since 1994 and developing a modern operating system wouldn't have required much use of 3.1 source code since a lot of new code has to be written to bring it up to date. Even Hyperion had to use source code from AROS to build OS4.
-
Saying that the specifications are valid from July 2012 and are subject to change doesn't change the fact that some features advertised were never supported to begin with.
Which specification(s) from your link are you thinking of that aren't supported by A-Eon's hardware?
[snip marketing bollocks]
AmigaONE X1000 Latest Specifications:
PA Semi Dual-core PA6T-1682M, nominal 2.0GHz (1.8GHz standard) PowerISA™ v2.04+ CPU
"Xena" 500MHz XMOS XS1-L2 124
ATI Radeon Evergreen or Northern Isles graphics card (option)
2GB or 4GB RAM (option)
1TB Hard drive
22x DVD combo drive
Boing Ball case
Boing Ball keyboard and mouse (option)
7.1 channel HD audio
Ports and connectors:
4x DDR2 RAM slots
10x USB 2.0
1x Gigabit Ethernet
2x PCIe x16 slots (1x16 or 2x8)
2x PCIe x1 slots
1x Xorro slot
2x PCI legacy slots
2x RS232
4x SATA 2 connectors
1x IDE connector
JTAG connector
1x Compact Flash
Revised specifications valid from July 2012 and are subject to change.
The fact that they're not selling it directly on their site is irrelevant since they link to the site where you can buy it
Yes, that link takes you to where the information is as I posted above.
You (apparently) would be shocked to hear of some of the things marketing departments get away with, that are heavily disclaimered in the small print before the point you accept the T&Cs and pay.
and because the issue is not where you buy it but rather how it is being advertised by the company that makes it.
A-Eon 'makes' the X1000.
Hyperion 'makes' AmigaOS.
-
Lionheart, you really need to come with documentation for your claims.
-
It's only selling point is the name, which it licenses from Amiga Inc. (a company run by a con-artist and used as a shell company for tax evasion)
So, are you accusing Darren Cohen of being a con artist or just his clients whom he answers to...the Kouri family? (evil grin)
#6
-
Which specification(s) from your link are you thinking of that aren't supported by A-Eon's hardware?
More like not supported by Amiga OS4. Xena (the onboard XMOS), Xorro (the proprietary hardware slot), on-board sound chip, on-board ethernet chip,...etc. Although some of the on-board components were supplemented with add-on cards, I can't find the specifications for these components. Which brings me to my next point: why would anyone be dumb enough to develop and waste money for on-board components that aren't supported only to have to use add-on cards in place of those components (further increasing the cost of the system)?
You (apparently) would be shocked to hear of some of the things marketing departments get away with, that are heavily disclaimered in the small print before the point you accept the T&Cs and pay.
Actually I wouldn't. I know how marketing works but in order to run a business you also need to cover your ass. If you're target audience is one that can waste $3,000 on exotic hardware, it makes sense that they probably have enough money to sue you.
A-Eon 'makes' the X1000.
Hyperion 'makes' AmigaOS.
Way to state the obvious genius. (^_~)b
Lionheart, you really need to come with documentation for your claims.
And you really need to be more specific as to what claim you would like documentation for.
-
@thread
Come on guys... this 10 post lion vox troll is just trying to get his goats
-
@Lionhart, all of them, if I only wanted a reliant soruce for some of them I would have said so.
@SACC-guy we all know he is a troll, like vox, no worse no better.
-
More like not supported by Amiga OS4. Xena (the onboard XMOS), Xorro (the proprietary hardware slot), on-board sound chip, on-board ethernet chip,...etc. Although some of the on-board components were supplemented with add-on cards, I can't find the specifications for these components.
Correction, the on-board sound is supported (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=912), so you can cross that off your list. The ethernet driver is still being beta tested and, yes, a plug-in card provides networking capabilities in the meantime.
I'm not sure what sort of support you're expecting for Xena & Xorro. Those two items are primarily for developers to play with. It's up to them to create something more useful than just flashing an LED (http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/hardware/nemo_led_p31.lha). Developer tools are available (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=654), although last time I checked they were still pretty minimal (i.e., enough to get started). Likewise, a Xorro developer board (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1135) is available for those who wish to design boards for this slot.
Which brings me to my next point: why would anyone be dumb enough to develop and waste money for on-board components that aren't supported only to have to use add-on cards in place of those components (further increasing the cost of the system)?
Most likely because development of the drivers for those components proved to be more difficult and take much longer than expected. Providing substitute cards meant that those difficulties didn't further delay the release of the board. It's a compromise.
A-EON may well wish that they had done certain things differently, but at least they're doing something instead of just talking about what should be done and criticising others.
Hans
-
More like not supported by Amiga OS4. Xena (the onboard XMOS), Xorro (the proprietary hardware slot), on-board sound chip, on-board ethernet chip,...etc.
So that would be 'none' then.
And also: "Way to state the obvious genius."
Although some of the on-board components were supplemented with add-on cards, I can't find the specifications for these components.
Lazy, or just not that bright? :P
Which brings me to my next point:
You had a first one?
why would anyone be dumb enough to develop and waste money for on-board components that aren't supported only to have to use add-on cards in place of those components (further increasing the cost of the system)?
Well, %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!. If I hadn't been making the same point over on AW.net for the past few days I might just disagree on principle. Ah well, point conceded.
Actually I wouldn't. I know how marketing works but in order to run a business you also need to cover your ass. If you're target audience is one that can waste $3,000 on exotic hardware, it makes sense that they probably have enough money to sue you.
And yet apparently you're naive enough to think you can take a marketing document with disclaimers all over it and nail someone to the wall with it in court even though you have inferred meaning way beyond that which is even implied, let alone stated, in the document.
Add to that the informative sales portal which clearly states the limitations of support in the current OS release for said hardware...
(^_~)b
Oooh, ascii art. I'm in awe of your l33tnessness.
-
@thread
Come on guys... this 10 post lion vox troll is just trying to get his goats
edit by mod: comment deleted. ad hominem attacks are not allowed under our TOS. consider this a warning.
@Lionhart, all of them, if I only wanted a reliant soruce for some of them I would have said so.
@SACC-guy we all know he is a troll, like vox, no worse no better.
Then I suggest you take your own advice and STFU then. I don't have time to debate with OS4 fanboys who are dumb enough to buy expensive over priced hardware from a company that knows they're stupid enough to buy it as long as they slap an "Amiga" sticker on it.
And yet apparently you're naive enough to think you can take a marketing document with disclaimers all over it and nail someone to the wall with it in court even though you have inferred meaning way beyond that which is even implied, let alone stated, in the document.
Add to that the informative sales portal which clearly states the limitations of support in the current OS release for said hardware...
edit by mod: comment deleted. ad hominem attacks are not allowed under our TOS.
If someone advertises a complete system with a list of features and you find out later on after you bought it that the OS they advertised it with doesn't even support those features, then that's considered false advertisement. I also can't find any mention of the specifications of the add-on cards they used to replace the on-board components they advertised and therefore cannot verify if the specifications are even the same.
edit by mod: comment deleted. ad hominem attacks are not allowed under our TOS.
Do I think A-Eon could have done more to not misrepresent the capabilities of the computer they're selling? Absolutely.
-
If someone advertises a complete system with a list of features and you find out later on after you bought it that the OS they advertised it with doesn't even support those features, then that's considered false advertisement.
^^ This.
Do you want me to embolden the 'if' for you?
If
someone advertises a complete system with a list of features and you find out later on after you bought it that the OS they advertised it with doesn't even support those features,
then
that's considered false advertisement.
else
troll fail
endif
There ya go sweetie. :-)
-
@thread
attacks on individual members will not be tolerated. period. this is the only warning i'm going to give.
-- eliyahu
-
^^ This.
Do you want me to embolden the 'if' for you?
There ya go sweetie. :-)
You're not very bright. And if you're trying to come on to me I'm not gay and wouldn't be interested in you if I was.
-
You're not very bright. And if you're trying to come on to me I'm not gay and wouldn't be interested in you if I was.
OK. i guess the warning didn't sink in. :rolleyes:
thread locked.
-- eliyahu