Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: vox on November 04, 2013, 08:14:19 AM
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Hi, I have created two polls to see am I alone in the universe
AmigaOS 4 ( AmigaOS 4) question for all users related to current support forum
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38367&forum=14
Multiply choice - please express YOUR opinion
and
Urgent needs of AmigaOne X1000 users, please AmigaOne X1000 users, express your needs
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38368&forum=33
Thanks!
P.S.
If you are not an AW.net user, and are registered AmigaOS customer, please express your opinion as message here.
Product Operating System Serial Number AmigaOS 4.1 for SAM440ep AmigaOS 4.1 Freespace: The Great War AmigaOS Quake II AmigaOS AmigaOS 4.1 for X1000 First Contact AmigaOS 4.1
Plus I do have unregistered AmigaOS 4.0 classic and invisible incense to OS 4.2
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Hi, I have created two polls to see am I alone in the universe
AmigaOS 4 ( AmigaOS 4) question for all users related to current support forum
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38367&forum=14
Multiply choice - please express YOUR opinion
and
Urgent needs of AmigaOne X1000 users, please AmigaOne X1000 users, express your needs
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38368&forum=33
Thanks!
P.S.
If you are not an AW.net user, and are registered AmigaOS customer, please express your opinion as message here.
Product Operating System Serial Number AmigaOS 4.1 for SAM440ep AmigaOS 4.1 Freespace: The Great War AmigaOS Quake II AmigaOS AmigaOS 4.1 for X1000 First Contact AmigaOS 4.1
Plus I do have unregistered AmigaOS 4.0 classic and invisible incense to OS 4.2
Well, as for the first question:
I don't have any Hyperion related products anymore (I had an AmigaOne XE for a brief period of time, but the whole OS4 thing was in such a terribly poor state back then, so I sold it to recover some money while it still was time). But back then, the "support" was on a secret forum on AW.net, they needed to have it secret to make it easy to enforce damage control and silence things down. The support was handled this way: 1) Someone posted a problem in the secret forum, 2) a lot of others quickly responded "it works here". 3) Hyperion/Eyetech did nothing. Ventilate your issues outside the secret, closed forum, and you woud get banned from it. You see, the propaganda touted that AmigaOne was flawless (it never was though, its Northbridge chip "Articia S" was severely FUBAR) and any problems had to be discussed in secret forums only so they can be silenced quickly, so that the shiny facade could be kept up in order to lure new gullible "Trademark Amigans" into the trap. I jumped ship quickly when I saw the sorry state these things were in, didn't want to be part of it. So I have no idea how they do things now, don't really care, but from what others have said online in forums, there is mostly *talk* in those support forums and not a lot of "doing", and when the talk reaches a certain threshold of criticism, threads gets locked. So in a way it seems to be just like before? Another thing seems to be that not much is done to actually fix the problems, it's more about carrot dangling, promises, "it's just around corner now", etc, and very little *work* to actually fix things. But again, I'm not in that crowd anymore (I'm happy to say), so maybe I'm wrong. However, I stick with MorphOS, where things are so much better in every single way, including support, development pace and bugfixing. I'm very happy with that! :)
As for the second question:
When talking about new HW (sold for *a lot* of money), isn't basic drivers to make the HW actually usable something you'd *expect*? OK if one or two is missing at product launch and some additional controller card with supported chips can be used to fill the gap during a transition time, but only temporarily IMHO. So I think your second poll is a bit strange, should there really be a need to *choose* between drivers? Shouldn't the entire board be supported, shouldn't they *all* be there? After three years?
Regarding the Web browser solution; Come up with a bounty to Fab, and I think he may consider opening up various closed components in his Odyssey browser, maybe even make a first port of it himself. The sum he mentioned in a thread over at amigans.net was €5000, which I think is very fair and totally within your reach. Odyssey is the best web browser that any Amiga flavor has ever seen. It's completely without competition on the entire Amiga scene.
PS.
Why did you post a lot of product keys?
:confused:
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I never signed up to the private AmigaONE forum but managed to get all the support info I needed. Only setting up UBoot and the IDE setting really.
Maybe Vox posted his serials to ensure they'd definitely become blocked from downloads in the future. Posting them to a public forum has effectively made them pirate serials from now on.
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its not like he cant just read the forum anonymously either, and his arguments are all over the place.
toddler throwing his toys out the pram comes to mind...
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Original support for the original AmigaOne models and OS4 was via a couple of Yahoo groups that were so secretive and select that you could actually join them without even owning an AmigaOne or running OS4.
I know this for a fact because I did it.
Great groups. People posted issues and then the members suggested fixes or worked on the bugs.
As for X1000 support, I haven't actually needed any yet. I don't visit the website (my bad, I'm sure that I should), and I tend to get my updates from Amiga.org, AmigaWorld.net and the automatic software update.
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@ Darrin
the support forums are a great resource without all the 'drama' and are only as good as the forum members
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Obviously, support for OS4 is going to be limited a focus primarily on what the users can do to help each other (forums).
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, its how a lot of questions get answered in the MorphOS community.
And as to A-eon and their hardware, where else can you send a message to the company's founder and get a response?
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Well, as for the first question:
1) Someone posted a problem in the secret forum, 2) a lot of others quickly responded "it works here". 3) Hyperion/Eyetech did nothing. Ventilate your issues outside the secret, closed forum, and you woud get banned from it. You see, the propaganda touted that AmigaOne was flawless (it never was though, its Northbridge chip "Articia S" was severely FUBAR)
Well, seems some things dont change much
As for the second question:
When talking about new HW (sold for *a lot* of money), isn't basic drivers to make the HW actually usable something you'd *expect*? OK if one or two is missing at product launch and some additional controller card with supported chips can be used to fill the gap during a transition time, but only temporarily IMHO. So I think your second poll is a bit strange, should there really be a need to *choose* between drivers? Shouldn't the entire board be supported, shouldn't they *all* be there? After three years?
Surely, if not now, then ASAP.
Regarding the Web browser solution; Come up with a bounty to Fab, and I think he may consider opening up various closed components in his Odyssey browser, maybe even make a first port of it himself. The sum he mentioned in a thread over at amigans.net was €5000, which I think is very fair and totally within your reach. Odyssey is the best web browser that any Amiga flavor has ever seen. It's completely without competition on the entire Amiga scene.
Surely, I would support that solution and have already donated to its Java or some engine, even its not OS4 centric.
Why did you post a lot of product keys?
:confused:
SHowing off products I have registered, I can`t update now.
Yo, people that think its piracy. NO, only I can use them. If someine else register it while I am down, its purely Hyperions prob, seen?
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@vox
You can create polls here too.
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@vox
You can create polls here too.
Thanks, with your approval, I would simple recreate them.
I believe users opinion is nice to know, and real support would
do that to engage users from time to time, and take the result
into improvement.
That is how serious people do even with limited resources.
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Wow, an X1000 user in Serbia.
And he's got a nice keyboard.
I wouldn't publish all that in my neighborhood dude.
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Obviously, support for OS4 is going to be limited a focus primarily on what the users can do to help each other (forums).
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, its how a lot of questions get answered in the MorphOS community.
AFAIK, the issue isn't about "answering questions". You can indeed ask questions anywhere and (hopefully) have them answered. AFAIK this is about product updates, and since you drew parallels to MorphOS, if a bugfixed or enhanced version of MorphOS is released, then literally *everyone* has access to that, not just those whose online behavior fits within certain peoples *highly* subjective standards.
I think it's very difficult to imagine someone as OS4 "fanatic" as vox. OS4 couldn't have had a bigger supporter. And he put in an enormous sacrifice to get that X1000. And now he won't have access to the updates and support he is entitled to, and not only that, everyone seem to be standing in line to throw crap on him in what has turned into a real and seemingly semi-sanctionized witch hunt. I always knew that the OS4 crowd was a little "special", but this has turned really ugly. I think many people should stop and reflect a bit about what they are doing.
Some people still dream that OS4 will become something real, that it will have a growth in the mainstream markets outside the Amiga community (or "microcosm" to use ssolie's words), but all this clearly shows how impossible that would be. And no, I'm not talking about any tech merits of the OS or HW but solely the behavior we see here. OS4 is more a discussion club or a cult than it is a computer system, and with this strange mindset that seems to be cultivated within the OS4 club, it will be impossible for it to grow even *within* the Amiga community.
I am shocked and baffled about what's now going on. And I don't even like vox. But the OS4 crowd has made it very clear why any sane person should carefully stay away from OS4.
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Wow, an X1000 user in Serbia.
And he's got a nice keyboard.
I wouldn't publish all that in my neighborhood dude.
Can be nice advice, can be threat.
Just-in-case changed the sig to be less attractive and suitable to the
situation.
@THM
I kind of like THM, even we often disagree. But I have to admit
I have learned a lot from him.
Please no conversion proposals. I would donate to X1000 port derived from G5, Trevor offered the board and would pay for the license. Should be easier then SAM460 and would bring first RadeonHD and AMD southbridge drivers which is giant step forward. You could get the OS4 drivers in return, prerequisite to develop for the board, do it in exchange for overall MorphOS drivers for Compact Flash, RadeonHD, onboard ethernet and so on and so forth. Its even piece of x86 transition in AMD Southbridge.
Varisys, US PA Semi, AMD and AMD (sound/gfx) is really nice combo :-)
I wish not to revert to Radeon 9250 or similar. I had them in life, they were great at the time, but that time is past.
Everything else I like:Reggae, Ambient, MUI4 ... all sound and are nice. Nice community. Nice development team. Nice and simple websites. Some union with AROS and OS4 would be far greater result, and Libre, even TW if done and continued, RadeonHD 2D and 3D drivers once done could bring AEON and MOS together. After all, AEON page does promote MorphOS too.
About my situation: as human I am forgiving. Leave alone all the remarks, Moo Bunny, Steves great SS emulation, AmigaKit
buffle with my X1000 ... you name it.
You all have my support, and I wish AmigaOS 4, MorphOS and AROS to advance towards AmigaOS 5.
That could be out of club microcosm ready. X2000 is nice step forward, I even wish I have waited longer and paid
for the beta test or the board alone because ONLY downside of my carefuly crafted system is CPU performance
(PowerEfficient at 7W, but yet it should be a little bit workstation-server strong as nice case suggests)
And please, please, please do put LED and DVD on next case. Or try to do something with Lorianos X500 design.
X3000 will be nice thing to see, and would even sacrifice for Cyrus board at some point.
If all the time, money and communication can be worth to progress. Even threatening Trevor
is one of sadest things I HAD TO DO IN LIFE BECAUSE OF STEVEN, seen?
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@takemehome
About os4 fanatic and how they treat vox;
On amigaworld im registered as overflow, and only got classic hardware/a1200.
Even i, that havent spent a fraction of the time and energy following amiga NG development compared to Vox easily realise the speed of development and ability to support.
I work in a very small company myself and see how hard it is to cover all tasks you want.
Only 24 hours in a day etc, and even if something happens that are out of your control
the customer will tag the blame with you. Working in a small company i see we can be better at almost all aspects be it web support and phone support, but with limited manpower AND hours in a day there ARE limits to what can be done, even if we would love for that to not be the case.
In addition to support we have to develop and maintain the product in addition to the fun of accounting, marketing and if there is time left get some sleep and let your family know you are still around.
I think Hyperion and aeon is somewhat in the same situation.
With the relativly little time ive spent on these boards reading up i knew the limitations of OS, hardware and supportpace. How Vox could be suprised is beyond me.
Maybe he fell "prey" to the high energy positive attitude that Trevor radiate.
Its almost like he thought; "if i spend x thousands on NG hardware, development speed will magically accelerate overnight".
Its this disconnect to reality that people on AW is reacting to I guess.
That doesnt mean Im not sympathetic to his frustration and dissapontment with the overall performance of the setup he spent a huge chunk of cash on.
But it was his choice to make, and subsequent dissapointment isnt grounds for villefying Hyperion, aeon or amigakit.
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But the OS4 crowd has made it very clear why any sane person should carefully stay away from OS4.
Sure, what exactly has the "OS4 crowd" done to demonstrate that?
You should probably ask yourself why certain members of the MOS crowd have made it clear why any sane person would be better off paying thousands of dollars for OS4 hardware and software rather than pick up a $50 used Mac and register.
I have MOS supported hardware and it isn't used and it isn't a Mac, but I don't feel any need to fork out to register it. My choice, based on what I've seen mostly on this site.
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Maybe people enter to the forums for real amiga news, tools, games... in general not for OS4
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Maybe people enter to the forums for real amiga news, tools, games... in general not for OS4
Then again, maybe they do! :kitty:
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Maybe people enter to the forums for real amiga news, tools, games... in general not for OS4
Sadly that's only the standard fayre at EAB these days.
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Sadly that's only the standard fayre at EAB these days.
I've always found this place to be the best location for FPGA, WinUAE and AROS news.
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Frustration is understandable, especially when a person has spent a lot of money on something.
What doesnt help however is long winded, excessive, negative tirades (both against a persons preference, or an alternative) .
Its this sort of behaviour that has turned me off of spending money, and really delving into the ppcoptions. As they say its a few that spoil things for everyone. Not that AROS doesnt have the same sorts of people, but free is a much more appealing price and easier to walk away from should community members piss you off to a point you want no more of it.
Its a bit of a shame really. I have friends, and know people that I like that use pretty much every amiga related option out there, but those few, self absorbed, self righteous people who think its all about them spoil other peoples hard work.