Parasite marketing if you like. I think they have gone too far this time.
Personally, I think this is more than a bit offensive*snip*
Personally, I think this is more than a bit offensive, kind of a violation to real Amigas and their history. Parasite marketing if you like. I think they have gone too far this time.
Using numbers associated with the classic systems we all know, prefixed with the letter 'A' will just lead to confusion on the forums. This is completely retarded. I get that there's a want to pay tribute to the original systems, and that's fine, but the naming schema should easily reflect that these systems aren't classic machines because people are going to shorthand the names. Nobody's going to write out "AmigaOne A3000" if that's the official name. They're going to write "a3000". Prefix with the letter 'X' or come up with a different numbering scheme. When classic users are googling for info and support about classic machines, they shouldn't be pulling up posts about OS 4 kit that has nothing to do with what they're looking for.
if anyone wants to hear what was actually discussed then just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAq23xRiISI
Crikey if you're "seriously offended" by this, god only knows how you'll cope in the real world! :-)
FWIW, they can call them them anything they want for all I care
Using numbers associated with the classic systems we all know, prefixed with the letter 'A' will just lead to confusion on the forums. This is completely retarded. I get that there's a want to pay tribute to the original systems, and that's fine, but the naming schema should easily reflect that these systems aren't classic machines because people are going to shorthand the names. Nobody's going to write out "AmigaOne A3000" if that's the official name. They're going to write "a3000". Prefix with the letter 'X' or come up with a different numbering scheme. When classic users are googling for info and support about classic machines, they shouldn't be pulling up posts about OS 4 kit that has nothing to do with what they're looking for.
Let them write A3000. I think you're all getting confused. The only Amigas with an A prefix were the A1200 and the A600. All the other classics had no such prefix in front of their number.
Let them name them what they want.
Totally agree.
I have nothing against A-Eon wanting to promote their appreciation of, and background in, the classic Amiga this way - it's good marketing - but confusion with existing model numbers should be avoided at all costs.
Hell, x3000 x5000/20 and x5000/40 would do just fine.
x1, x3, x5 - they are supposed to be 'odd' computers after all ;)
Regardless of there being no official A3000 etc they should not rename their machines with numbers to cause confusion with the original amigas. I don't know of a anyone who has never said A3000,A2000 etc. It will just cause confusion.
Besides there are plenty of letters in thealphabet left and a boatload numbers out there, let them pick some not used by the original machines.
Let them write A3000. I think you're all getting confused. The only Amigas with an A prefix were the A1200 and the A600. All the other classics had no such prefix in front of their number.
Let them name them what they want.
Indeed, the discussion starts at 18m55s.
Had they called it "PS3" you can bet your left hand that some PS3 enthusiasts would have been upset, because it's not a Playstation 3 (and Sony would come after them of course, since this is an unregistered trademark they use, but that's not my point). Or if a new car manufacturer that's going to produce a brand new car model would market it under an abandoned (but well known) model name from another, dead, manufacturer, despite the model has nothing at all to do with that old one, then you can bet your right hand that there will be an angry bunch of veteran car enthusiasts who are devoted to that *real* model, since it has nothing to do with the cars they are interested in, and it only causes confusion. Or if the MorphOS team would rename their OS to "AOS 5" ("AOS" not meaning *anything* here of course, especially not anything close to "Amiga"), you don't think people would be upset?
So cut down on the insults, don't play stupid and and don't tell me you can't see the controversy here. Maybe you don't care, but I can assure you I'm not the only one who does.
+1 on everything and all you wrote!
It's a de-facto naming convention; *all* real Amiga models can be shortened with an "A"+model number. Everyone does this, all the time, and everyone understands.
:pissed:
@ grandma
I hope the MorphOS team could find a deal with A-Eon to use these new boards for new MorphOS system! especially as A-Eon has stated they will be selling single boards now.
It'll be cool to see the different case designs with the Blue butterfly:drink:
In my opinion AX or X would be preferable; people don't usually say "AmigaOne" anyway.
@ grandma
I hope the MorphOS team could find a deal with A-Eon to use these new boards for new MorphOS system! especially as A-Eon has stated they will be selling single boards now.
It'll be cool to see the different case designs with the Blue butterfly:drink:
Personally I would recommend A-Eon stick to the X number scheme. X3000, X5020, whatever.
How is it now, is A-eon still stained by Ben Hermans/Hyperion? This is otherwise a known show stopper. Other than that, I think it comes down to viability; like a reasonable and realistic price and what level of usability you get for the money, longevity, etc. The X1000 was a catastrophe in this regard, sheer madness, and I think it was a good decision to not support it (even disregarding Ben Hermans issues). Much remains to be seen regarding these new "A3000" (:insane:) etc machines. And another thing that may affect a decision is how the MorphOS team looks at the future and viability of PPC in general, like how much efforts should really be spent on new HW based on this architecture vs. introducing something new. Several MorphOS team members has talked about a future MorphOS platform migration, several years ago even.
>Or simply call it something readable/meaningful to human beings, some kind of word, an adjective, a noun, or whatever.
Call it "Querida" or "Amada" to keep an Amiga spanish theme ;-P
Alain Thellier
Furcia Four-thousand sounds apt. ;)
Zorra Four-Thousand too and reminds us about the all-mighty Zorro slots ;-)
Now seriously, using the "A"+500/600/1000/1500/2000/2500/3000/3500/4000 just adds confusion... people interested on a new machine will google using that names and find links about an old machine and think "bah! fossil hardware". Bad marketing idea, just like releasing right now a machine named "AppleOne II"
@Derf, etc...
You know, it's a good thing that not everyone has your mindset (very few actually), and that everyone is actually able to raise and discuss any issue at free will. It turns out that quite a few people agrees that the "A" naming scheme is a really bad idea, like I *knew* people would, and many have sent e-mails to A-eon about this. This obviously opened their eyes to such a degree, that now when the actual voting starts, they have gone from four voting options to *twelve*, of which only the first four is "A" options (and a few rather strange "AX" options for some reason). Other than those, there are "X" (the most logical one), "P" (the second most logical one, at least if followed by CPU model number), and "Q". Don't really understand that last one, but maybe that's just me.
Anyway, here are the options:
http://a-eon.com/18-10-2013-6.pdf
From discussions in this thread and elsewhere, I suppose the voting will result in them keeping the "X" naming scheme (which is a good idea IMHO), alternatively "P".
If not going with the "X" like in Option 12 for example, then the best option IMHO would be an "Option 13", meaning Option 12 but "P" instead of "X". That would simply be the CPU model names:
- P3041 (I have no idea about the logic behind the "3500" that is in several of the options instead of 3041)
- P5020
- P5040
I think the X scheme makes most sense since that's where A-EON started
but A5000 be less offensive to you since it was never used on models produced by Commodore, Escom or Quickpac?
Frank recently posted on MZ that he thinks it is a waste of time to add anymore machines to the list of supported hardware as there are now plenty of models supported with something available for everyone at differing levels of price, performance and features.
I tend to agree, concentrating on improving MorphOS features should be the main focus of manpower now before any architecture shift is even planned.It's aleady the best AmigaOS by far, but think how much better it will be when the team are not bogged down with porting it to new hardware.
A3000 vs. A1-A3000, what's the confusion?
A3000 vs. A1-A3000, what's the confusion?
And the ridiculous sentiments of outrage over the use of an "A" prefix?
Are you guys serious?
Hey, I'd like to see them move from AmigaOne to Amiga.
The only Amigas with an A prefix were the A1200 and the A600. All the other classics had no such prefix in front of their number.
I would say "wasting his money"
Let them write A3000. I think you're all getting confused. The only Amigas with an A prefix were the A1200 and the A600. All the other classics had no such prefix in front of their number.(http://heinzig.info/museumdetail.php?detail=amiga3000t040#prettyPhoto[gallery]/1/)(http://http://heinzig.info/museumdetail.php?detail=amiga3000t040#prettyPhoto)
Let them name them what they want.
Isn't "writing an Amiga compatible OS from scratch" also a waste of time/money?
Isn't collecting Amiga's also a waste of money?
A3000 is not Amiga:
https://www.google.dk/#q=a3000&safe=active
Using the A prefix doesn't bother me but using model numbers of already existing Amiga models is parasitic as TMHG says, not to mention it will cause not just confusion and irrelevant search results but generate an enormous among of bad will towards the OS4 stakeholders.
So much so that search results for their products may be drowned out by the negative feedback it generates possibly damaging sales of their wares.
From amigans (Steve Solie):
http://www.amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1962
"Further more, do you think there are more people buying the beast, if a search engine will present Cyrus base System when you enter Amiga 5000?
Absolutely yes.
Could this be confusing? Is this inconsistent? Yeah but nobody cares. The only people who do care are the hard core Amiga guys. The hard core Amiga guys have made up their minds already so there is no point in pandering to them. We need to think outside this microcosm. After reading "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" recently I'm quite sure Jack Tramiel wouldn't think twice about using the A5000 label because his focus was always on selling more units which is the primary objective here as well."
I think it speaks for itself...
From amigans (Steve Solie):
http://www.amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1962
aww.this is so patherthic, trying to deliberately fool the audience and openly discussing to ride on the back of something they do not belong to and yet they are so hot about it.
pervert..
Did we have the same naming-fuss when Commodore USA annnounced, they would use the Commodore Amiga name for their Commodore Amiga mini?
Thumbs up to solie! :)
Quote from: OlafS3;751109From amigans (Steve Solie):
http://www.amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1962
"Further more, do you think there are more people buying the beast, if a search engine will present Cyrus base System when you enter Amiga 5000?
Absolutely yes.
Could this be confusing? Is this inconsistent? Yeah but nobody cares. The only people who do care are the hard core Amiga guys. The hard core Amiga guys have made up their minds already so there is no point in pandering to them. We need to think outside this microcosm. After reading "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" recently I'm quite sure Jack Tramiel wouldn't think twice about using the A5000 label because his focus was always on selling more units which is the primary objective here as well."
I think it speaks for itself...
It seems they never learn. Sigh.
wonder he is the only one the amiwest speech is missing online. it has been reported the recordings from last year are being taken offline btw.
sure. cant you recall? though they seemes to have at least a proper license to do that. we couldnt do much about it,. instead this here is an outright plot to fool people, right?
Btw Solie's reasoning to get more sales is not going to work in reality. Amiga 500 was the best selling Amiga model but how many sales A-Cube had with AmigaOne 500?
Yes but spending 1.2 Million Dollar for new PPC based custom hardware in 2013/2014 IS indeed wasting money. It is also called hobby like collecting and repairing oldtimers, collecting stamps or whatever. But he should at least not try to confuse his new toys with the classic line.
And he could have spend it in porting AmigaOS to better and cheaper hardware. "Custom hardware" that offers no real benefits compared to standard hardware makes no real sense.
"Further more, do you think there are more people buying the beast, if a search engine will present Cyrus base System when you enter Amiga 5000?"Well, in a way it is enhanced X1000, so X2000 is no confusion thing.
Hint: The only ones that will be interested to even google "Amiga 5000" in 2013 would be the hard core Amiga guys in a certain microcosm.
How frustrating it must be for OS4 haters to see new HW coming using the name they cant. I dont see other reason for so much fuss about naming of a machine. Who cares, if you like it and have the money buy it, if not, forget it. Like some1 is going to listen to you anyway...
Well, Djole, Classic lovers have a new sound card, so its hard to spit on AEON
Btw Solie's reasoning to get more sales is not going to work in reality. Amiga 500 was the best selling Amiga model but how many sales A-Cube had with AmigaOne 500?
This AmigaOne A5000 is based on broken idea that there is large audience googling and waiting for new Amigas to come. They could call it Amiga 500 and it still wouldnt sell any better. But Solie is a prisoner of Amiga name and cant let it go from his mind.
In five years MorphOS has acquired over 2000 registrations. AROS has established a core group on Raspberry Pi and PC world. Amiga veterans still remember short lived Amithlon. Natami had great following.You dont need amiga name if you can make your product right.
How frustrating it must be for OS4 haters to see new HW coming using the name they cant. I dont see other reason for so much fuss about naming of a machine. Who cares, if you like it and have the money buy it, if not, forget it. Like some1 is going to listen to you anyway...
How frustrating it must be for OS4 haters to see new HW coming using the name they cant. I dont see other reason for so much fuss about naming of a machine. Who cares, if you like it and have the money buy it, if not, forget it. Like some1 is going to listen to you anyway...
Heh. Funny how most of the noise in regards to the naming of these new machines is made by people who aren't going to buy one.
For people who aren't interested in OS4, they sure spend a lot of time thinking and talking about it.
Personally I think pretty much everything to do with it is a farce, but I rarely feel the urge to worry so much about what others choose to spend their time and money on. Id rather focus on what I am interested in.
To each their own I guess.
Becayse that "A" naming scheme (no matter the number) is de-facto "reserved" for real Amigas/Classics. It's really that simple
No, who told you that?
Why not remove A from Aros then? ;-)
Why not remove "a" from bitman? :-)
Gre*t ide*
reg*rds, Bitm*n
Oooh! "AmigaOne" - I'm so juh-healous, that I can't even just say 'jealous'.
Hyperion has the rights to nothing beyond the names AmigaOne and AmigaOS (and the boing ball).
That's the kind of aroogant and ill-informed post that makes me want to open a business reconditioning & selling Macs rebranded as the AmigaTwo line. Not that I expect it to create a sustainable business, but it would be funny watching Ben make legal threats with his remaining $2.15.
@Djole
Perhaps people hate Ben Hermans.
Threatening AROS for being the Amiga Research OS despite Fleecy and McBill giving it their blessing years prior is just one of the many pathetic stunts he has pulled that have made the wider community despise him so very much.
Steven Solie appears to be carrying on in that tradition and you have to ask "why?"
Regarding the current "naming-fuss", I'm rather neutral - since I'm not using and will (probably) not be using any NG Amiga system for the next couple of years.
On the subject of "parasiting" on "A" and "Ami" - hasn't it always been a part of the Amiga-world: Abox, Ambient, iMica, Natami, AresOne 2011 etc?
We tend to always use an "A" or something that sounds like "AMI".
Regarding the current "naming-fuss", I'm rather neutral - since I'm not using and will (probably) not be using any NG Amiga system for the next couple of years.
On the subject of "parasiting" on "A" and "Ami" - hasn't it always been a part of the Amiga-world: Abox, Ambient, iMica, Natami, AresOne 2011 etc?
We tend to always use an "A" or something that sounds like "AMI".
Please do so, maybe you will also make $2,15. Nothing ill-informed about my previous post, I just read all the stupid posts (like yours) and based on that I still think os4 haters cant stand that Hyperion can use Amiga name be it in AmigaONE, AmigaOS or whatever. Just to make it clear I like all Amiga like systems, classic, OS4, MOS and Aros and I cant understand why people have so much against OS4 and its boards. If its too expensive for you, keep using your MAC and dont hate the ones who can and want to buy X1000, X2000 or whatever. If OS4 is not as good as MOS, again keep using your MAC and dont hate the ones who use AmigaOS.
Ok I can understand that but, do you buy a car because the brand owner is a nice guy or any other product ? I dont follow politics I just look at the product.
Actually, to some degree, yes.
For example, I won't use Elsevier services/producs due to their onoing (if now abstracted) links to the annual Arms Fair in the UK. I also won't spend any money on News International products (Sky, The Sun, etc) for many reasons, but you can boil that down to Rupert Murdoch being at the black heart of it all. Nor will I buy imported herbs, imported to the UK by air to keep it fresh - despite the fact that it grows like a fricking weed everywhere in the country.
Corporate responsibility is something that influences product choice in the real world.
Sadly, I continue to line the pockets of the tobacco barons, but it is high on my list. Equally sadly, I am addicted to the use of diesel for my business vehicle for which I see no practicable alternative at the mo.
Ok I can understand that but, do you buy a car because the brand owner is a nice guy or any other product ? I dont follow politics I just look at the product.
Please do so, maybe you will also make $2,15. Nothing ill-informed about my previous post, I just read all the stupid posts (like yours)
and based on that I still think os4 haters cant stand that Hyperion can use Amiga name be it in AmigaONE, AmigaOS or whatever. Just to make it clear I like all Amiga like systems, classic, OS4, MOS and Aros and I cant understand why people have so much against OS4 and its boards. If its too expensive for you, keep using your MAC and dont hate the ones who can and want to buy X1000, X2000 or whatever. If OS4 is not as good as MOS, again keep using your MAC and dont hate the ones who use AmigaOS.
+1 to all that.
RE: Diesel. Have you tried chip fat? I believe it works very well as an alternative.
Are you trying to say something about Northerners? ;)
I have thought about it, but it adds hours onto my week setting up contacts, getting the crap home, setting up a filtration system/storage/etc.
I'll probably experiment with it in a couple of years when I've settled into the routine a bit more, but at the moment running a home, dog, business and relationship is as many full-time jobs as I can manage. :)
Ambient is a musical style. See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_music).I'm aware that Ambient has another meaning...
My (unmissed) hometown of Blackburn once held the dubious honour of being the Chip Pan Fire Capital of the UK. :lol:
But not "A" + number.
I'm not saying that using "A" is right, just that "A" often has been used by a lot of companies, without anyone taking much notice.
I don't like any of the suggested AmigaOne names - they're too long
Quote from: OlafS3;751382But not "A" + number. We all know what this means and Steve Solie admitted that it would be intentionally and they would anger a lot of people in the community. Why doing that when you know that potential customers will dislike it? Or does he seriously think AmigaOS has a chance outside the hardcore amigians? I do not think so. Why not just avoiding that and using "X" (or T or V or whatelse)?
I'm not saying that using "A" is right, just that "A" often has been used by a lot of companies, without anyone taking much notice.
Please give a lot of examples of companies in the Amiga world that has often been using "A" + number as their naming scheme for their products?
:confused:
Yes. I just tried typing all of the various Amiga models in to google, using the "A" prefix instead of "Amiga," and only A600 and A1200 brought up any mention of the Amiga. All of the searches returned plenty of computers, phones, tablets, cameras, etc. The first page of A500 not only didn't mention Amiga, but did list the A500 road in Staffordshire and Cheshire, England.
Honestly, this is way too much fuss over one letter. This thread has been going on for three weeks now which far exceeds the impact that any naming scheme will have.
Here's a few:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=724
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/gvp1230-iibox1.jpg (http://www.bboah.com/download_photos/gvp1230-iibox1.jpg)
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/mtec1200
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=6
Acer have an A500 tablet. Or is it Asus? Yes Asus. Their a company in the same world as the Amiga.
Yes. I just tried typing all of the various Amiga models in to google, using the "A" prefix instead of "Amiga," and only A600 and A1200 brought up any mention of the Amiga. All of the searches returned plenty of computers, phones, tablets, cameras, etc. The first page of A500 not only didn't mention Amiga, but did list the A500 road in Staffordshire and Cheshire, England.
Honestly, this is way too much fuss over one letter. This thread has been going on for three weeks now which far exceeds the impact that any naming scheme will have.
I personally couldn't care less if Apple sold a Mac A4000, unless they called it an "Amiga 4000" or "Amiga A4000." It wouldn't be unethical, amoral, or "parasitic" in the slightest. Likewise, an "AmigaOne A3000" will never be an "Amiga 3000." Having said that, I'd suggest using a different number like "AmigaOne A3041" just to avoid confusion when people inevitably shorten the name in discussions (personally, I'd shorten it to A1-A3041 for clarity, but I'm not everyone).
Hans
The plan:
- P!ss off/confuse "hardcore Amiga guys" inside this "microcosm" by deliberately infringing on the general de-facto naming convention for real/classic Amiga computers ("it doesn't matter since they won't be buying it anyway").
- Aim for world domination outside this microcosm instead by using the "A + number" naming convention that doesn't mean jack sh!t to anyone outside (only inside), hence it will be kind of meaningless on google.
:rolleyes:
It's encouraging though to see that *practically everyone* (on every forum where this is being discussed) comes with truckloads of suggestions using *anything else* than "A" (you and ssolie are among the few going against the stream). I'd say that most people feel a bit like I do, that it's simply wrong to infringe on the real/classic Amiga de-facto naming convention. It's less encouraging however to see that the polling is not taking place in the open, but behind closed doors. Then it's easy to claim that whatever decision you make, "there was a clear majority behind it".
Since when has nine days equalled three weeks? It's not even two.
Argh! Dates on this forum are in US format. The 20 being where the month should be should have been a dead giveaway. :o
Hans
Perhaps people hate Ben Hermans because he is a cnut.
Frankly I have no idea what you tried to say there, I think you may be confused. If so, sorry about that. Or maybe you just didn't follow the discussion...?
If there is anything worse than American (mis) spelling of the English language it is the American date format. ;)
Thank you for proving my point; those are all accessories for real/classic Amiga's, and "A's" do definitely belong here (although some have other names as well, which is also fine of course)
Btw I am AmigaOS user. I just dont advertise my Amiga 500 in my signature.
AmigaOS was/is the offcial name from 3.0 and up.Quote
Originally Posted by itix View Post
Btw I am AmigaOS user. I just dont advertise my Amiga 500 in my signature.
I'm aware that Ambient has another meaning...
AmigaOS was/is the offcial name from 3.0 and up.
No sign of this AmigaOS...
(http://www.vesalia.de/pic/amigaos39cd.jpg])
Looks like we are coming to an agreement that neither AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS have nothing to do with real Amiga, i.e. my Amiga 500.
What is it?
But how can you be an AmigaOS user then?
Yeah, my mistake. I am an Amiga user. So called real Amigan.
The MorphOS desktop and the music style....
Ambient is the native graphical shell of MorphOS. As its name suggests, the metaphor of an abstract enviroment is used rather than a traditional desktop which is often specifically associated with business and work.
Yes, but you could possible be an AmigaOS or (Amiga OS) user. IIRC Version 3.0 was initially made by Commodore and an A500 equipped with accelerator and the right kickstart should be able to run 3.0
Hmmm. Me looks at documentation and disk boxes and sees:
Amiga OS 3.9
Amiga OS 3.5
Amiga OS version 3.1
Amiga OS version 3.0
No sign of this AmigaOS...
http://www.vesalia.de/pic/amigaos39cd.jpg
Seriously?
Who cares about a missing whitespace in the name?
So what is it you want?
OS 1.3?
I'm away from home at the moment so I can't check the boxes
3.5 shipped in a box, versions before that either came in a bag or a white leaflet, with a seal.
Yes Kickstart 1.2 or 1.3. I bought my Amiga 500 for nostalgia. I used to have one in 90s.
I could consider an Amiga 1200 with a harddisk but I have got lazy and I do not want to go through all that hassle installing WHDLoad and games and tuning Workbench wallpapers.
Yes, its true that one disc did indeed say "Workbench", but then the others said something else "Extras", "Locale" and so on.
Who cares about a missing whitespace in the name?
Really if it all boils down to that, then I guess that "haters will be haters" is true in this case.
I know, I just stated that it might be a reason why people Think it's named Workbench at v3.x because they havent seen/had the box and there is no text on the floppies what so ever that says Amiga OS so quite easy to missunderstand then also if you boot from the Workbench floppy takes you to the OS so as said easy to understand confusion since previous versions of the OS was named Workbench and now as Before there is a floppy named just that and it boots you to OS as before....
I see, I missunderstood your post then.
But you might very well be right.
Yeah, my mistake. I am an Amiga user. So called real Amigan.
What is it?
A large portion of the user base referred to the OS as Workbench. It was the clearest and most visible labelling of the OS for most users.
And BTW, it's not like they were going to make Amiga OS an independent product that could run on other systems, like Schmyperion does.