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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: AmigaClassicRule on October 03, 2013, 12:18:48 AM

Title: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 03, 2013, 12:18:48 AM
Have there being any external CD-ROM for the Amiga 500 invented that fits in the disk drive port, parallel port or serial port of the Amiga 500? If the only one that works are SCSI external CD-ROM can the Amiga 500 boot directly from the SCSI external CD-ROM and what do I need as a hardware to be able to hook a SCSI external CD-ROM?

But before I go through that route I am just wondering if there have being any external CD-ROM that works on the disk drive port of the Amiga 500 or parallel port or SCSI port?
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: mrknight on October 03, 2013, 01:44:55 AM
Parallel port CD-ROMs do exist. I remember it was very common to use parallel port for external devices in the 90's.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: mrknight on October 03, 2013, 01:48:27 AM
External CD-ROM with parallel port connection do exist. I remember parallel port was very common for devices in the 90's.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 03, 2013, 02:08:47 AM
Quote from: mrknight;749284
Parallel port CD-ROMs do exist. I remember it was very common to use parallel port for external devices in the 90's.

Two questions:

1) Would it work on an Amiga 500 parallel port?
2) Can I boot from the CD directly if I was to hook it into the Amiga 500 parallel port?
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Tenacious on October 03, 2013, 02:42:48 AM
I have never seen an Amiga with a CD connected thru the parallel port (common on old PCs) nor the disk drive port.  I haven't seen everything.  ;)

To my knowlege, the only Amigas that can boot from CD are the CDTV, CD32, and A500 with an A570 CDRom sidecar (I have a setup like this :)).

It is my hope that someone will patch and update KS3.1 to also allow booting from CD and other media.  I wouldn't care if Amiga Inc approves or not.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Ezrec on October 03, 2013, 02:54:25 AM
I've done some extensive research on this, and the simple answer is that the Amiga's parallel port (on the 1000 and 500) don't support enough control signals to be able to run 95% of the parallel to SCSI adapters that were designed for PCs.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: mrknight on October 03, 2013, 03:08:41 AM
Quote from: Ezrec;749292
I've done some extensive research on this, and the simple answer is that the Amiga's parallel port (on the 1000 and 500) don't support enough control signals to be able to run 95% of the parallel to SCSI adapters that were designed for PCs.

Oh, so that means A1000/A500 don't use a standard parallel port? That's a shame since I was thinking of getting a parallel port CD-ROM.

I thought that if it was connector compatible all that would be needed would be a device driver.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Matt_H on October 03, 2013, 03:48:45 AM
Quote from: mrknight;749293
Oh, so that means A1000/A500 don't use a standard parallel port? That's a shame since I was thinking of getting a parallel port CD-ROM.

I thought that if it was connector compatible all that would be needed would be a device driver.


None of the classic Amigas use what would be considered a standard parallel port, at least by late 90s standards and beyond. PCs got newer protocols (ECP? EPP?) that the Amiga parallel port does not support. I think some of the extra I/O cards made for the Amiga do support these newer signals, but I don't think any of them work on the A500 without considerable other expansion.

Regardless, I don't think anyone ever wrote a parallel port CD driver.

Meanwhile, I think the OP's options for an A500 CD drive are:
-An A570
-SCSI via GVP sidecar or similar
-IDE via some sort of add-on IDE port (this would be messy, since there's no such thing as an external IDE enclosure - you'd need to modify a SCSI enclosure and run your own cables)
-USB via Subway and Clockports expansion (requires an 030 and will be very slow due to clockport bottleneck)
-Use another Amiga's CD drive via serial or parallel network

The A570 can boot CDTV stuff. None of the other solutions are bootable. There is a software package called CDBoot that can fake a bootable environment, though. Once installed to your hard drive, it mounts the CD drive very early in the startup-sequence and if it detects a CDTV- or CD32-bootable CD it offers you the option of transferring the system to CD and continuing to boot from that, or finishing your normal hard drive boot.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: motrucker on October 03, 2013, 04:53:10 AM
On an A500 the only way to accomplish installing a CD ROM drive is either with an A570 (this limits you to 2.0OS) or use something like a GVP hard drive sidecar and use the CD-ROM drive from that with a SCSI drive.
Parallel port devices were never made for the Amiga (to slow with the 68000 for one thing), and no drivers (again due mostly to speed problems).
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Astral on October 03, 2013, 11:32:53 AM
A570 all the way!

Auto config. Physically made to fit. Auto-boot. Can expand with 2mb expansion and SCSI controller.

No brainer for me :D
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 03, 2013, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: Astral;749317
A570 all the way!

Auto config. Physically made to fit. Auto-boot. Can expand with 2mb expansion and SCSI controller.

No brainer for me :D

in that case this is the setting i want. i will get a570 and have workbench 1.3 boot from cd. then external scsi drive for games. i will the cd with all the necessary apps
fonts tools etc. what do you guys think? can it be done?


if not i will reverse order and get gvp then scsi dvd.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 03, 2013, 01:50:31 PM
one more question.....i saw someone who have the most beefed kickstart 1.3 setup. he have hundreds of apps tools wordprocess etc. i want the same where do i get it?
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: motrucker on October 03, 2013, 02:38:13 PM
Personally I would go the GVP side car route. If you use Asimware's file system for the CD, it has excellent CDTV emulation. Plus you can add more RAM.
Working A570s can be hard to find these days.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: amiman99 on October 03, 2013, 05:19:36 PM
There is another option you can consider: Bodega Bay for A500
http://www.bboah.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=76&id=3489&artlang=en
You can then install A2091 SCSI card with 4MB RAM. This can give you HD and CDROM option, all integrated nicely in a case.
Probably more difficult to find then A570.
There is a cheaper way and sort of "hackery", you can use ZORRO adapter that converts A500 ZORRO slot to A2000 type, then you can use A2091 SCSI card for the HD and 25pin external connector for your CD Drive.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Merc on October 04, 2013, 01:42:01 AM
Or, get an A590 and do the same, should work the same as the A2091 card, although maybe a SCSI ROM upgrade would be needed?
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Tenacious on October 04, 2013, 01:45:42 AM
I have a lot of affection for the A570, it was my first expansion beyond a second floppy and trap door memory.

It has some quirks:
 68010 is the only safe acceleration.  Adspeed appears to work for about a week, then kills the A570. All other accelerators have timing conflicts.
Supra's 500RX (FAST ram) is compatible.  I would bet the new, under-CPU FAST ram would work, too.
Works well with 1 MB CHIP ram conversion (also 2 MB CHIP ;)).
Has built-in audio mixer.
I run it with OS1.3 & OS2.1
Power the A570 first, then the A500.
A570 is NOT a SCSI CD drive or interface, but, a SCSI-TV add-on will allow addition of SCSI HD, ZIP, etc.
It will run almost all, if not all, CDTV titles.
If you can write bootable Amiga CDs, it will boot from them.  A large, custom OS with all apps and files on CD w/o HD is doable.
It has the same, very cool, audio CD player as CDTV built into rom.
From WB, it will work with other CD file systems.  I use the latest AsimCDFS.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 04, 2013, 02:55:05 AM
Quote from: Tenacious;749374
I have a lot of affection for the A570, it was my first expansion beyond a second floppy and trap door memory.

It has some quirks:
 68010 is the only safe acceleration.  Adspeed appears to work for about a week, then kills the A570. All other accelerators have timing conflicts.
Supra's 500RX (FAST ram) is compatible.  I would bet the new, under-CPU FAST ram would work, too.
Works well with 1 MB CHIP ram conversion (also 2 MB CHIP ;)).
Has built-in audio mixer.
I run it with OS1.3 & OS2.1
Power the A570 first, then the A500.
A570 is NOT a SCSI CD drive or interface, but, a SCSI-TV add-on will allow addition of SCSI HD, ZIP, etc.
It will run almost all, if not all, CDTV titles.
If you can write bootable Amiga CDs, it will boot from them.  A large, custom OS with all apps and files on CD w/o HD is doable.
It has the same, very cool, audio CD player as CDTV built into rom.
From WB, it will work with other CD file systems.  I use the latest AsimCDFS.

That all sound great and everything. But here is the thing...I am looking for a Workbench 1.3 OS with ALL APP files that works on Kickstart 1.3, everything from paint, to word process to audio player, to browser, you name it. It all sound and great everything. Technically speaking I have two choices...I can have the GVP HD and have external SCSI CD-ROM or have A570 and have SCSI external HD...pretty much the Amiga 500 is a toy...and a lego..you can configure the setting how you like.

I also have choices in the power of the system...I can go the route of 030 processor or go with CD-ROM and stick with 68010 instead. Now the only question I have...since I really wanted to watch movies on my Amiga 500...I have done it already on A1200 but I like doing it on Amiga 500...I know HAM.RUN does the work...can I ran HAM movies on a 68000 processor at good speed or it is best that I go the route of 030? If the answer is 030..then the only configuration I can think that works best is to skip A570 all together and do 030 processor with external CD-ROM if I ever need to have external CD-ROM. NOW IF I CAN run it on .ham files on CD-ROM on a 68000 speed running at 20 fps rate with good speed sound..and there is a video showing it under kickstart 1.3 then I will go the route of A570 and have scsi external HD for games....

So what is the best choice?
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: amiman99 on October 04, 2013, 03:31:39 AM
How about get the CDTV with SCSI card and HD and some RAM. That could accomplish the same thing. CDTV = A500 with CDROM.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 04, 2013, 03:52:57 AM
Quote from: amiman99;749376
How about get the CDTV with SCSI card and HD and some RAM. That could accomplish the same thing. CDTV = A500 with CDROM.

\
Actually if I wanted to go to that route I would have gotten A2000. But I got the A500 for the C64/128 case look.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Tenacious on October 04, 2013, 04:21:09 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;749375
Now the only question I have...since I really wanted to watch movies on my Amiga 500...I have done it already on A1200 but I like doing it on Amiga 500...I know HAM.RUN does the work...can I ran HAM movies on a 68000 processor at good speed or it is best that I go the route of 030? If the answer is 030..then the only configuration I can think that works best is to skip A570 all together and do 030 processor with external CD-ROM if I ever need to have external CD-ROM.


Go with the 030 capable system.  Working A570s are not plentiful.  SCSI-TV is probably rare.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Astral on October 04, 2013, 08:43:02 AM
Get one of each possible configuration that you can think of. Problem solved. Compatibility with everything. :D
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 04, 2013, 02:35:37 PM
Quote from: Astral;749385
Get one of each possible configuration that you can think of. Problem solved. Compatibility with everything. :D

Yup...then I will be broke and on the street :rolleyes: The poor thing.....he forgot completely that as each hour pass by the hardware prices of Amiga system goes up by 10 dollars each day. Like for example the prices of such Amiga computers are as follows like in eBay they are selling an Amiga 1200T PPC for 5k USA or something like this here in AmigaKit http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_86&products_id=1071 or or even a card like this http://www.ebay.ca/itm/GVP-GForce-68040-33mhzCombo-Accelerator-for-Amiga-2000-2000HD-2500-Video-Toaster-/271289366053?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item3f2a1b3625 for $412 here is just an Amiga 500 for $400 bucks http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Commodore-Amiga-500-Computer-in-Original-Box-Works-Ships-Worldwide-/190857595969?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6fffcc41


and finally this is my card...this is the card that I want for my Amiga 500 and look how much it is going for http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Amiga-Game-Boxed-GVP-A500-HD8-Impact-Series-II-Hard-Drive-/121165796477?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item1c360b547d.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: motrucker on October 04, 2013, 08:12:54 PM
That's the most expensive A500 Plus I have seen used. Oh well, it's cheaper than it was new....
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: Tenacious on October 04, 2013, 11:33:53 PM
I dabble with some other platforms as well.  Some 8-bit Apple stuff is now astronomical in price as are Hp's old rpn calculators and anything associated with their earliest microcomputers.  The day is coming when the once plentiful A500 will command big $$$, too.

Also, I've noticed a change on eBay lately.  There seems to be a growing number of sellers that are asking outrages prices for junk!  These are not auctions, they are "Buy It Now".  I sort of feel soiled after cruising eBay.  Lots of the net seems to be tranforming from a free flow of info to pay for everything.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 05, 2013, 01:45:48 AM
Quote from: Tenacious;749413
I dabble with some other platforms as well.  Some 8-bit Apple stuff is now astronomical in price as are Hp's old rpn calculators and anything associated with their earliest microcomputers.  The day is coming when the once plentiful A500 will command big $$$, too.

Also, I've noticed a change on eBay lately.  There seems to be a growing number of sellers that are asking outrages prices for junk!  These are not auctions, they are "Buy It Now".  I sort of feel soiled after cruising eBay.  Lots of the net seems to be tranforming from a free flow of info to pay for everything.


Well, if these prices keep going up no one will buy them any more and they will be forced to drop down. It cannot go up till end of time.
Title: Re: External CD-ROM for the Amiga 500....
Post by: motrucker on October 05, 2013, 06:51:03 PM
You all are right about prices. This thread got me wanting an external CD ROM for my A2000, and the prices floored me. I found one HP CD Writer Plus that came without a PSU but I bit. Figured I could find one the would work in my collection. No such luck, and I can't find a PSU anywhere. Back to the drawing board on this one. I hate to yank the drive out and make an internal. Guess I'll keep looking.....