Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: andersbm on September 24, 2013, 02:56:51 PM
-
Hi' all.
I realise that there are quite a few posts about how to get the best signal from your A500/600/1200 etc. to your TV/Monitor. However, I cannot seem to find any, which is exclusively about transferring signal from Amiga to a modern TV, with some sort of HDMI cable.
I can see that amazon and ebay have RGB-to-HDMI cables but the reviews are often VERY bad and I doubt that cables like that will work for Amiga purposes. Or what?
Does anybody have good solid experience on the easiest/cheapest way to get your Amiga out-signal into a HDMI cable and on to the huge and wonderful livingroom TV? :-)
All best,
Anders, Copenhagen.
-
I doubt there are any such cables. The Amiga outputs an analogue RGB signal and HDMI is digital.
You need at least an analogue-to-digital converter and possibly an upscaler to reach decent resolutions. Both are electronic devices which don't fit into a cable.
Something like this for example: http://www.amazon.com/adapter-converter-convert-digital-CM3-NW-013/dp/B00DL0UEPM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1380033269&sr=8-4&keywords=Scart+HDMI+converter
-
Hi' all.
I realise that there are quite a few posts about how to get the best signal from your A500/600/1200 etc. to your TV/Monitor. However, I cannot seem to find any, which is exclusively about transferring signal from Amiga to a modern TV, with some sort of HDMI cable.
I can see that amazon and ebay have RGB-to-HDMI cables but the reviews are often VERY bad and I doubt that cables like that will work for Amiga purposes. Or what?
Does anybody have good solid experience on the easiest/cheapest way to get your Amiga out-signal into a HDMI cable and on to the huge and wonderful livingroom TV? :-)
All best,
Anders, Copenhagen.
Since you are in Europe, your best bet would be RGB to SCART, assuming your TV has scart. It will give you the best quality for a small price.
-
I'm using a HD Video Converter SCART/HDMI to HDMI 720p/1080p that I bought in Los Angeles, CA and it works great. I'm using a SCART cable that a fellow Amigan in this forum donated to me and a HD LG 21" monitor. Colors and resolution work great too.
Just Google "HD Video Converter SCART/HDMI to HDMI 720p/1080p" and you should be able to find it.
-
Hi' all.
I realise that there are quite a few posts about how to get the best signal from your A500/600/1200 etc. to your TV/Monitor. However, I cannot seem to find any, which is exclusively about transferring signal from Amiga to a modern TV, with some sort of HDMI cable.
I can see that amazon and ebay have RGB-to-HDMI cables but the reviews are often VERY bad and I doubt that cables like that will work for Amiga purposes. Or what?
Does anybody have good solid experience on the easiest/cheapest way to get your Amiga out-signal into a HDMI cable and on to the huge and wonderful livingroom TV? :-)
All best,
Anders, Copenhagen.
Hook an Amiga up to any modern TV via it's scart connection (Amiga RGB-Scart Cable) and trust me you will not be disappointed. The A1200 gives a slightly crisper picture than the A600, but it's hardly noticable really. Buy a good quality Amiga RGB-Scart cable though. I got mine from ebay and it wasn't cheap - but there's plenty for sale on there. I think the Amigakit store sell them too.
If you had an A1200, you could buy the IndivisionAGA MkII from Amigakit and then use this adapter and cable made by kipper:
http://kipper2k.com/amigaforsale/
Which basically gives the A1200 a HDMI output socket.
Amigakit store: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/
Kipper also sells a VGA socket to fit in place of the RF Modulator on A600's.... but you'll need an IndivisionECS for that along with the A604 ; which it plugs into which you probably already have anyway.
-
+1 for the Indivision and the Kipper2K HDMI adapter. You Europeans and your funny SCART connectors. :p
-
+1 for the Indivision and the Kipper2K HDMI adapter. You Europeans and your funny SCART connectors. :p
Not quite as funny as your Composite Video & S-Video connectors.. :D
-
Not quite as funny as your Composite Video & S-Video connectors.. :D
:roflmao:
Oh, it's funny because it's so sad! No SCART in Australia either. I still haven't been able to find a good RGB-to-Something Useful converter (component or HDMI). Why can't RGB SCART be an international standard? :(
-
There is no SCART in the states, but a "SCART to HDMI" converter (upscaling to 720 or 1080p) will run $60 USD on eBay and a 23-pin to SCART cable about $20 USD. The picture is pretty good with both text and pictures. The DVI output from an AGA MKII is better, but at twice the price.
-
:roflmao:
Oh, it's funny because it's so sad! No SCART in Australia either. I still haven't been able to find a good RGB-to-Something Useful converter (component or HDMI). Why can't RGB SCART be an international standard? :(
Sillyness. (as above from danbeaver) All you need is an Amiga 23pin Video to Scart Cable from Amigakit and a scart(RGB) to HDMI converter. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-HDMI-to-HDMI-1080P-HD-Video-Adapter-Converter-NEW-/400538432467?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item5d41f373d3
Plus a HDMI cable. Not cheap but crystal clear video on a modern tv/HDMI enabled Monitor.
-
Sillyness. (as above from danbeaver) All you need is an Amiga 23pin Video to Scart Cable from Amigakit and a scart(RGB) to HDMI converter. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-HDMI-to-HDMI-1080P-HD-Video-Adapter-Converter-NEW-/400538432467?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item5d41f373d3
Plus a HDMI cable. Not cheap but crystal clear video on a modern tv/HDMI enabled Monitor.
Looks good! And yeah, definately not on the cheap side - but hey, that's good tech for ya ;-)
On my wishlist for x-mas now. Does anybody know what to be careful of in terms of bad quality converters?
Anders, Copenhagen.
-
Er... Ones that don't work?
-
They all seem to come from China and the models are actually few in number; I chose the "HD Video Converter" 720p/1080p for $45 USD.
-
A600's and 1200 can be easily modified to give an svideo output...
One TV I have here, with a scart input, the quality actually appears to be worse than svideo... its a Grundig tv, and just doesn't seem to scale the signal as well...
RGB/scart to ypbpr appears to give a good picture, the best I've seen actually... but not all tvs will accept this signal, so its a bit hit and miss if you go that route...
Now, not from my own experience, but from others reviews (and youtube videos) rgb to hdmi will give a picture that's worse than svideo, and barely an improvement on composite.... well, lets say somewhere in the middle ;)
-
Sillyness. (as above from danbeaver) All you need is an Amiga 23pin Video to Scart Cable from Amigakit and a scart(RGB) to HDMI converter. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-HDMI-to-HDMI-1080P-HD-Video-Adapter-Converter-NEW-/400538432467?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item5d41f373d3
Plus a HDMI cable. Not cheap but crystal clear video on a modern tv/HDMI enabled Monitor.
That one looks nice! Do you have that particular one? Does it work nicely? I'm using my 1070 monitor so I'm not that desperate for a converter but just in case I bring my Amiga somewhere else. We do have retro game evenings sometimes...
RGB/scart to ypbpr appears to give a good picture, the best I've seen actually... but not all tvs will accept this signal, so its a bit hit and miss if you go that route...
I bought one of those RGB SCART to Component converter and my TV didn't like it. I'm not too happy about that. That means I have one for sale if anyone is interested :)
-
I used a Scart/Composite/S-VIDEO to HDMI converter a few years back on a A600, worked great but I bought 3 before I found a good one and also used it for other gaming systems like Super Nintendi, playstation 1 etc.
But the price of the converter I used was near the price of an Indivision AGA and later I just used it for old consoles and bought Indivisions for my Amigas.
If you find a good converter the picture can be good enough but you can get a few crap converters before you find one good enough.
Do you have the option to use VGA on your TV? Since I have had quite good luck with a few VGA converters and they are cheeper.
-
I used a Scart/Composite/S-VIDEO to HDMI converter a few years back on a A600, worked great but I bought 3 before I found a good one and also used it for other gaming systems like Super Nintendi, playstation 1 etc.
But the price of the converter I used was near the price of an Indivision AGA and later I just used it for old consoles and bought Indivisions for my Amigas.
If you find a good converter the picture can be good enough but you can get a few crap converters before you find one good enough.
Do you have the option to use VGA on your TV? Since I have had quite good luck with a few VGA converters and they are cheeper.
No unfortunately there's no VGA :-(
-
Be thankful! Many (all?) of those VGA devices are no better than composite. Try the SCART-to-HDMI, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
-
Be thankful! Many (all?) of those VGA devices are no better than composite. Try the SCART-to-HDMI, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I have had a few VGA converters which have given me a pleasant experience (also a few that where rubbish) but as said most of the good ones are quite expensive 130-150$+
I have had better luck with VGA converters then HDMI ones, but that can be just luck that ive stumbled across the right VGA converters.
-
I thought I would post some pictures as I've been using it to get HiRES screen that don't flicker while I work without a scan doubler. They appear less sharp due to my camera.
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1207)
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1206)
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1205)
From a WHDLoad game:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1208)
The beast hidden in back:
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=169&pictureid=1209)
-
I hate to be a party pooper but the SCART(RGB)-HDMI Converters arent that great, the bad news is the picture looks nice until things start moving then the picture goes very soft, it's quite distracting (even the pointer in WorkBench).
Basically the "de-interlace picture" part of the converter isnt all that good and results in moving items looking really really soft - like they were shot with a slightly out of focus camera, then as soon as the motion stops the picture sharpens up, it's quite distracting especially on side-scrolling games.
Another issue is it won't work with dvi-d only monitors as it needs the hdcp drm and it force stretches the 4:3 picture to 16:9 - the issue is some TV's (eg my Bravia 32" LCD) wont allow you to adjust the aspect ratio of HDMI sourced HD video.
Here is the SCART(RGB)-Component Converter I have and recommend:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item337dfa167b&_uhb=1
There are other RGB-Component converters around that I haven't tested, however this one works perfectly as long as your TV can handle the slightly non-standard amiga sync via component.
One of the best things about this unit is the fact that it's not trying to up-scale or frig with the video in any way and doesnt introduce any noticeable lag at all. It also means that those HDTV's that wont let you change HD video, (supplied via HDMI), aspect ratio to 4:3 wont have an issue letting you set your AR to 4:3 on SD content so you dont get unwanted strech'o vision playing your amiga games!
-
Well that may be true with analog component output, but even upscaled to 1920 x 1080 the games I've played are pretty sharp. I havent noticed any softening then sharpening. It can't compete with the DVI output of a Radeon 9200, but it beats the crap out of a Compserv/Arxon and DCE Scanmagic. In addition none of the monitors I've bought in the past few years have anything other than DVI or HDMI.
-
How will a de-interlaced Amiga video which is then feed into SCART-HDMI converter box work out?
-
Well that may be true with analog component output, but even upscaled to 1920 x 1080 the games I've played are pretty sharp. I havent noticed any softening then sharpening.
Have a read of this AmiBay Topic:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?20468-Solution-for-external-Flicker-fixer/page65&p=451678#post451678
I was the was one of first people to buy one for testing so I've had a lot of experience with it. Initially I was thrilled but then I started noticing its limitations (Horizontal scrolling is the main issue).
Here are some pics I took of it a while back (Amiga 1200 @ 50hz to crappy Samsung SyncMaster 225MS (set to 4:3 for correct image display) via SCART/RGB-HDMI Converter @ 720p50hz):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/Amiga%20SCART-HDMI%20Converter/P1020081.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/Amiga%20SCART-HDMI%20Converter/P1020085.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/Amiga%20SCART-HDMI%20Converter/P1020091.png
But try playing something like R-Type or Shadow of the Beast were there are dark backgrounds and the soft de-interlacing issue really jumps out at you!
In addition none of the monitors I've bought in the past few years have anything other than DVI or HDMI.
It doesnt work with DVI-D only Monitors as 99% of them dont support HDCP - they only work with HDMI equipped monitors.
HDMI is simply DVI-D(igital) + HDCP (DRM system) - TV's may differ from Monitors in that they have additional processing that PC Monitors typically dont have (more advanced scaling, support for TV resolutions etc).
The main difference between HDMI and DVI-D in a PC/TV context is that HDMI defaults to RGB-Video (Reduced colour range) and PC's use RGB-Full Range. This sometimes makes PC output look weird via HDMI as there is a colour range mismatch.
-
So what is the Amiga solution to DVI/HDMI ?
-
So what is the Amiga solution to DVI/HDMI ?
Delends on how much money you have to spend, personally for $50 or less the HDMI converter we are discussing cant be beat but if you have component inputs the scart(rgb)-YUV converter does a better job with less processing lag.
-
Perhaps those are hardware specific issues and not related to all converters and all HDMI monitors and TV's in all the gin joints in all the world; when she walks into mine, I have 2 monitors (older Dell ST2310L & new AOC) and 2 TV's (Westinghouse) all 1080 x 1920 and 3 SCART to HDMI converters, and these do not have your problems. I also don't seem to "game" as much as you do, spending more time on productivity programs.
-
How will a de-interlaced Amiga video which is then feed into SCART-HDMI converter box work out?
Depends on the converter. They are designed to work with a 15khz input, so it's likely it won't work at all.
-
Huh?
-
Perhaps those are hardware specific issues and not related to all converters and all HDMI monitors and TV's in all the gin joints in all the world; when she walks into mine, I have 2 monitors (older Dell ST2310L & new AOC) and 2 TV's (Westinghouse) all 1080 x 1920 and 3 SCART to HDMI converters, and these do not have your problems. I also don't seem to "game" as much as you do, spending more time on productivity programs.
There is a possibility they've improved their de-interlacing algorithm since I bought mine - if I get a chance I might capture some video so you can see it.
-
I'm not saying I don't believe you. I'm saying I don't see it on my equipment.
-
@djos:
Hi djos,
Do you know if the CVS287 adapter actually converts PAL/NTSC video signal, i.e. if I use a PAL Amiga + an Amiga SCART cable + the CVS287 adapter and connect it to an NTSC HDTV with Component inputs, will it work?
Thanks,
x56h34
-
@djos:
Hi djos,
Do you know if the CVS287 adapter actually converts PAL/NTSC video signal, i.e. if I use a PAL Amiga + an Amiga SCART cable + the CVS287 adapter and connect it to an NTSC HDTV with Component inputs, will it work?
Thanks,
x56h34
EDIT: Sorry I got my wires crossed - No it wont.
-
EDIT: Sorry I got my wires crossed - No it wont.
Thanks. So it seems like the SCART to HDMI adapter is the way to go when needing PAL<=>NTSC conversions, however the SCART to Component adapter may be a better choice when it comes to general picture quality, especially when there is motion on screen.
-
Thanks. So it seems like the SCART to HDMI adapter is the way to go when needing PAL<=>NTSC conversions, however the SCART to Component adapter may be a better choice when it comes to general picture quality, especially when there is motion on screen.
Essentially, yes.
Btw, I noticed a new RGB-HDMI converter claiming a blur-free picture - no idea if it supports 15khz Amiga RBG tho but maybe worth a try:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adapter-Converter-SCART-to-HDMI-Connector-with-Up-Scale-Scaler-HD-1080P-/321333892106?pt=AU_Electronics_Portable_Audio_Accessories&hash=item4ad0fe140a&_uhb=1
-
@Djos, when saying soft do you mean somewhat motion blur like picture?
Ive seen HDMI recordings with a good capture card from that exact converter that Danbeaver was using with gameplay from a Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and seems to be quite good and I don't notice any motion blur, I just ordered one to see how well it works :)
-
@Djos, when saying soft do you mean somewhat motion blur like picture?
Ive seen HDMI recordings with a good capture card from that exact converter that Danbeaver was using with gameplay from a Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and seems to be quite good and I don't notice any motion blur, I just ordered one to see how well it works :)
No it's not like motion blur, it's more of a soft focus appearance - it is quite noticable in games when a background stops moving because it suddenly goes from soft to sharp.
You can see it moving the mouse around workbench in the default modes as the mouse pointer goes soft while moving and then sharp when it stops.
-
Sounds like one could build a project to do the DVI/HDMI stuff reliably..
Perhaps even bypassing the internal DAC:s in the Amiga.
-
No it's not like motion blur, it's more of a soft focus appearance - it is quite noticable in games when a background stops moving because it suddenly goes from soft to sharp.
You can see it moving the mouse around workbench in the default modes as the mouse pointer goes soft while moving and then sharp when it stops.
Ill give it a go and see how it turns out, thanks for clarifying tho :) I got the Indivision AGA mk2 in my A1200 so this will be used for other old consoles, if it's acceptable ill rig it up to 15 of my consoles and build a huge scart/compisite switch :)
-
I'm not claiming nor attempting to convert the world to HDMI, but in a price to quality (where there are soo many cheapskates in the Amiga domain) this beats the alternatives by costing half to one fourth as much; and if there were "motion blurring," well, duh! Its motion, Dude!
-
I'm not claiming nor attempting to convert the world to HDMI, but in a price to quality (where there are soo many cheapskates in the Amiga domain) this beats the alternatives by costing half to one fourth as much; and if there were "motion blurring," well, duh! Its motion, Dude!
No need to be so defensive Dan, im not calling it rubbish, im just saying that if you have component inputs the RGB-YUV converter provides a better quality conversion and leaves the higher quality electronics in your TV to do the scaling and de-interlacing.
:cool:
PS, it's not motion blur like Mouse trails on an old LCD, it's a visible softening of only the parts of the picture that are moving in most games.
-
Are you sure the signal from a PAL Amiga won't work through the adapter to an ASTC TV? All TV's nowadays use the same resolution, there's nothing inherently different in an ASTC to a DVT-B TV. They're produced in the same factory in China and pretty much the only difference is whether they get an ASTC or DVT-B tuner stuck in them.
-
I'm not claiming nor attempting to convert the world to HDMI, but in a price to quality (where there are soo many cheapskates in the Amiga domain) this beats the alternatives by costing half to one fourth as much
How is $60 for the hdmi converter "half" the price of the $60 ypbpr converter? :hammer: lol
-
How is $41.95 half the price of a DCE Scanmagic, a CompServ/Arxon, a 4-button thingy on eBay, an Indy AGA, a host of other solutions, and is available. I don't see many monitors in the states with component inputs, but I could be wrong now.
-
How is $41.95 half the price of a DCE Scanmagic, a CompServ/Arxon, a 4-button thingy on eBay, an Indy AGA, a host of other solutions, and is available. I don't see many monitors in the states with component inputs, but I could be wrong now.
The OP was primarily asking about using an Amiga on TV's, most TV's still have Component inputs.
Hi' all.
I realise that there are quite a few posts about how to get the best signal from your A500/600/1200 etc. to your TV/Monitor. However, I cannot seem to find any, which is exclusively about transferring signal from Amiga to a modern TV, with some sort of HDMI cable.
Does anybody have good solid experience on the easiest/cheapest way to get your Amiga out-signal into a HDMI cable and on to the huge and wonderful livingroom TV? :-)
All best,
Anders, Copenhagen.
-
I'm considering one of these SCART conversion devices. I have already acquired an RGB -> SCART cable.
My TV is an almost ten year old Sharp LC-37D90U. It does just fine with most HDMI devices connected. I even have an HDMI switcher I am using for a couple of computers with HDMI out.
I like the argument in favor of choosing component over HDMI in the case of the Amiga as I would be concerned about how my old TV would handle a 4:3 image over HDMI. It is not sophisticated enough to handle "computer" signals over HDMI unless they are in the native 1920x1080 resolution. My TV also has a DVI-I input but it is picky about what you feed it too. Right now, an old Intel Mac Mini does fine on that input.
So getting to the component input, I have only ever connected video-based devices here (DVD and Blu-Ray players) and they do well for the most part.
I am concerned about how the TV will handle a PAL signal through this input, though. My Amiga 500 is an NTSC-native device but I plan to run it in PAL mode from time to time. Currently, I am using an RGB --> S-Video device and the S-Video input on the Sharp is rather poor, as would be expected. It seems to be better when fed and interlaced signal. When fed an NTSC Hi-Res, it flickers! Just the opposite of what you get with Commodore CRTs! When fed a PAL signal, the display starts rolling. :)
If this is what happens over S-Video, is this an indication of what I will expect over component?
With the Windows PC connected over HDMI, I run WinUAE in PAL frequently. However, I suspect this is actually a cheat. The emulation may be running in PAL, the screen resolution may change, but I doubt the TV is actually receiving a 50Hz signal. This is fullscreen mode, by the way. I see that WinUAE has other v-sync options in the display section that might change the way this behaves. Perhaps I can use that to more-closely simulate a real Amiga's video output.
Anyway, for the reasons described here, I think the component is a better way to go. My only concern is if my TV can handle PAL over component. Is there any way to test this prior to purchasing the adapter?
-
Any tv with component input should support 50/60hz content natively, it's part of the standard so not a cheat at all - grab the component converter and give it a shot, mine works in NTSC and PAL happily.
-
It doesnt work with DVI-D only Monitors as 99% of them dont support HDCP - they only work with HDMI equipped monitors.
.
Are you 100% sure about this? I was going to get a scart cable and hdmi converter to use with an older Dell DVI monitor with dvi to hdmi adaptor. (It doesnt have hdmi inputs or component just vga and dvi)
-
The SCART to HDMI converter handles PAL & NTSC and upscale to several resolutions; although I've been programming since 1974 with a degree in CS from a private university and an Amiga owner since 1986, don't consider anything I say as reasonable or truthful -- "the doctor lies."
-
danbeaver
Yes you are right most all those converters do PAL and NTSC. One of the reasons I want one is the monitor I use with my amigas is DVI only and wont display pal on the analogue inputs only NTSC. I have another vizio monitor that has HDMI but displays both PAL and NTSC modes though only through AV composite in (and its flicker fixed!)
-
Are you 100% sure about this? I was going to get a scart cable and hdmi converter to use with an older Dell DVI monitor with dvi to hdmi adaptor. (It doesnt have hdmi inputs or component just vga and dvi)
100% sure.
Check your manual for references to hdcp support, if there are none then the HDMI converter won't work. HDMI is essentially DVI-D + HDCP and the latter is entirely optional on DVI-D.
-
I am with djos here.
I also have one of those SCART-to-HDMI and I am too not very happy with it.
it is as djos said : try Hybris and see how blurry the moving scrolling is but as soon as you pause the game, it is blocky so I might sell mine and get the one djos mentions (thanks man for the link).
Switching resolution is also not not accessible and always have a few seconds lag. and sometimes the screen goes black like if it lost the settings and have to reset.
I hate to be a party pooper but the SCART(RGB)-HDMI Converters arent that great, the bad news is the picture looks nice until things start moving then the picture goes very soft, it's quite distracting (even the pointer in WorkBench).
Basically the "de-interlace picture" part of the converter isnt all that good and results in moving items looking really really soft - like they were shot with a slightly out of focus camera, then as soon as the motion stops the picture sharpens up, it's quite distracting especially on side-scrolling games.
-
If you're not sure if your TV will support the component signal from the scart to component adapter, try plugged the composite output from the Amiga into the GREEN component socket, and see if it displays a black and white picture ;)
Although I'm not 100% sure this will show if the TV doesn't work, as all my TV's displayed the scart to component from the Amiga just fine.
-
If you're not sure if your TV will support the component signal from the scart to component adapter, try plugged the composite output from the Amiga into the GREEN component socket, and see if it displays a black and white picture ;)
Although I'm not 100% sure this will show if the TV doesn't work, as all my TV's displayed the scart to component from the Amiga just fine.
On my vizio 22" lcd tv I use the Green on the Component input section on the back of the tv and select "AV" mode. This gives full colour and works in both PAL and NTSC interlaced and non and also Flicker Fixes the image!
-
On my vizio 22" lcd tv I use the Green on the Component input section on the back of the tv and select "AV" mode. This gives full colour and works in both PAL and NTSC interlaced and non and also Flicker Fixes the image!
You are missing AJ's point, his test is to see if your TV supports the Amiga's bi-level sync - a minority of tv's don't like it and require the more common tri-level sync via component.
-
My results are much the same as magnetic's. I see a rock-solid monochromatic image, in the correct aspect-ratio as well! The TV reports it as 480i. :)
Unfortunately, when I switch to PAL mode, the screen goes blank. :(
I will test an interlaced screen when I get my WB 3.1 booted up again.
-
djos,
Were you referring to TVs in your native country? :)
I saw your post over on EAB where you pointed out that North American sets would still have trouble:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=72555&page=3
So it would seem my only solution would be SCART to HMDI if I want to see a PAL display mode. But the disadvantages of SCART to HDMI are just sad.
Any tv with component input should support 50/60hz content natively, it's part of the standard so not a cheat at all - grab the component converter and give it a shot, mine works in NTSC and PAL happily.
-
I'm a little late getting back on this thread to report my experience with one of the SCART to HMDI devices. It does the job, but I have to agree with djos on the soft-focus effect with objects that are in motion. If you're only a casual user and are sitting at a distance to a large screen TV, you probably won't mind this at all.
In addition to that, however, I found another problem I find more offensive. Take a look at the attached image. Why the zipper-like pattern? I am using overscan on my Workbench screen to maximize the display, but since it shows up on games as well, I have no control over those.
This happens on NTSC signals only (what I will be using most of the time). PAL signals do not show this.
@djos -- does the SCART to Component adapter do the same? I have an NTSC/PAL friendly LCD panel now with a component input. One of these devices could be a good fit.
-
Why the zipper-like pattern? I am using overscan on my Workbench screen to maximize the display, but since it shows up on games as well, I have no control over those.
Can't you just resize the display on the TV to get rid of these? That's what I would do. ;)
-
Not sure what you mean. In this case, I am using an actual widescreen LCD monitor at the 4:3 aspect ratio. Any resizing would distort that and cause other undesirable effects.
A better question is why this exists in the first place. Perhaps something to do with "exceeding the limits". I'm just guessing.
Can't you just resize the display on the TV to get rid of these? That's what I would do. ;)
-
I mean, in the most technical sense, press the buttons to make it go away? ;) Nevermind, here's a better idea: use a border blanker to make the background color (gray in your screenshot) black. Obviously not helpful in games, but better than nothing?
-
get some black duct tape... lol
-
Does anybody have good solid experience on the easiest/cheapest way to get your Amiga out-signal into a HDMI cable and on to the huge and wonderful livingroom TV? :-)
All best,
Anders, Copenhagen.
For the A1200, If you want to skip easiest/cheapest and just got for the best then I'd suggest Indivision AGA with kipper2k HDMI adapter. I wasted money on several less satisfactory video solutions prior to getting this setup.
If you are not in need of a RF modulated output then you remove the RF modulator box and put the kipper2k there.
good luck :)
-
For the A1200, If you want to skip easiest/cheapest and just got for the best then I'd suggest Indivision AGA with kipper2k HDMI adapter. I wasted money on several less satisfactory video solutions prior to getting this setup.
If you are not in need of a RF modulated output then you remove the RF modulator box and put the kipper2k there.
good luck :)
That is the best advice for an A1200.
-
My results are much the same as magnetic's. I see a rock-solid monochromatic image, in the correct aspect-ratio as well! The TV reports it as 480i. :)
Unfortunately, when I switch to PAL mode, the screen goes blank. :(
I will test an interlaced screen when I get my WB 3.1 booted up again.
I get full colour output on both pal and ntsc though the ntsc picture is better the PAL is a little "fuzzy" but still looks good
-
That is the best advice for an A1200.
i'm also thinking of getting this:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011405&p_id=8124&seq=1&format=2
that way in theory my AUDIO would be transferred over HDMI (to my receiver) as well.
I guess using this you could skip the kipper2k, but I'd just use a small DVI to HDMI adapter because I already have the kipper2k adapter.
-
Side Note:
Those SCART to HDMI transfer audio as well if you use a SCART cable (like Amigaikit's) that allows it; that being said, MonoPrice is a company with a stupid name that sells excellent products (I have at least 2 of theirs) for reasonable prices.
They even have features they don't advertize: my 5-port HDMI switcher automatically selects the signal varying the most, but allows selection via the remote or just a finger wave in front of the IR receiver.
-
Side Note:
Those SCART to HDMI transfer audio as well if you use a SCART cable (like Amigaikit's) that allows it; that being said, MonoPrice is a company with a stupid name that sells excellent products (I have at least 2 of theirs) for reasonable prices.
They even have features they don't advertize: my 5-port HDMI switcher automatically selects the signal varying the most, but allows selection via the remote or just a finger wave in front of the IR receiver.
I actually bought a SCART to HDMI adapter (from deal extreme) and an amiga SCART cable, that being my only SCART device I was never able to figure out why it did not work. I'm guessing not all it was the dx adapter and not the HDMI adapter from amigakit.
-
Indi + HDMI would be the way to go :-)
-
My results are much the same as magnetic's. I see a rock-solid monochromatic image, in the correct aspect-ratio as well! The TV reports it as 480i. :)
Unfortunately, when I switch to PAL mode, the screen goes blank. :(
I will test an interlaced screen when I get my WB 3.1 booted up again.
Hmm, unfortunately it sounds like you have a TV that only supports 60hz via component video. :(
-
I'm a little late getting back on this thread to report my experience with one of the SCART to HMDI devices. It does the job, but I have to agree with djos on the soft-focus effect with objects that are in motion. If you're only a casual user and are sitting at a distance to a large screen TV, you probably won't mind this at all.
Yeah that issue drove me mental and gave me headaches!
In addition to that, however, I found another problem I find more offensive. Take a look at the attached image. Why the zipper-like pattern? I am using overscan on my Workbench screen to maximize the display, but since it shows up on games as well, I have no control over those.
This happens on NTSC signals only (what I will be using most of the time). PAL signals do not show this.
@djos -- does the SCART to Component adapter do the same? I have an NTSC/PAL friendly LCD panel now with a component input. One of these devices could be a good fit.
That is a strange artifact, TBH i've never seen it on on either the RGB-HDMI or the RGB-YUV converter no matter whether im using 50hz or 60hz.
There's certainly no harm in trying the RGB-YUV converter if you can find a seller that offers a money back warranty if you doesnt work for you.
-
4 pages of discussion when the solution was nicely summarised by paul1981 in post #5.
The indivision not only provides the best quality output but also provides 1024x768 and 1920x1280 resolutions.
-
4 pages of discussion when the solution was nicely summarised by paul1981 in post #5.
The indivision not only provides the best quality output but also provides 1024x768 and 1920x1280 resolutions.
Welcome to Forum Discussions!
-
There are two target audiences in this thread though: 1) The A1200 users who can install more capable internal video expansions and 2) The A500 North American users like myself that must rely on external expansions only. :D
4 pages of discussion when the solution was nicely summarised by paul1981 in post #5.
The indivision not only provides the best quality output but also provides 1024x768 and 1920x1280 resolutions.
-
Agreed. I am curious as to what your SCART to HDMI converter looks like then. Perhaps you found a better one than mine.
That is a strange artifact, TBH i've never seen it on on either the RGB-HDMI or the RGB-YUV converter no matter whether im using 50hz or 60hz.
There's certainly no harm in trying the RGB-YUV converter if you can find a seller that offers a money back warranty if you doesnt work for you.
-
Only mono output from the A500's native phone jack. :(
Composite on the A600/A1200? Now that may have been the simplest solution in my case. If The A500 only had color composite out. This would also have the added benefit of not having an image that is "too sharp".
I get full colour output on both pal and ntsc though the ntsc picture is better the PAL is a little "fuzzy" but still looks good
-
4 pages of discussion when the solution was nicely summarised by paul1981 in post #5.
The indivision not only provides the best quality output but also provides 1024x768 and 1920x1280 resolutions.
unless I'm mistaken it does not do 1920x1280 but can do 1280x720p. Or maybe they created a new video mode recently and I missed it. That would be nice.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=748711&postcount=5
yes, I also agree...
I tried all sorts of stuff prior to this, but nothing that worked consistently well with all Amiga video modes. The money spent on that junk is gone. There is no reason to go down that route if you can get an Indivision AGA MK2. The situation was different when the Indivision AGA (original) was selling used for $300+ USD and people were desperate.
I mean (technically) if you want the cheapest/easiest solution for HDMI on Amiga, the best solution is to skip the flaky old hardware all together and run UAE :)
-
Agreed. I am curious as to what your SCART to HDMI converter looks like then. Perhaps you found a better one than mine.
Mine is identical to DanBeever's unit he posted pics of HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=765987&postcount=20).
-
4 pages of discussion when the solution was nicely summarised by paul1981 in post #5.
The indivision not only provides the best quality output but also provides 1024x768 and 1920x1280 resolutions.
That's all well and good if you only have one Amiga and it's an a1200!
Personally i have 4 Amiga's and eventually managed to buy a Sony Trinitron Pro Video Monitor for every day use (scored it for $36 aud from a Uni Film & TV school) and I use the RGB-YUV converter with my TV's on the odd occasion I have time to use them.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/IMG_3047.JPG)
-
That's all well and good if you only have one Amiga and it's an a1200!
They make Indivisions for all models of Amiga. I use them in my A500 and A2000 and would never go back, or consider any of these hacked up, "save a penny", jury-rigged solutions in these threads. But, have fun with that! ;)
-
They make Indivisions for all models of Amiga. I use them in my A500 and A2000 and would never go back, or consider any of these hacked up, "save a penny", jury-rigged solutions in these threads. But, have fun with that! ;)
The Indy's are about $200 aud each (~ double the price of an a500), that's bloody expensive - if Jens had any sense he'd make an affordable external version ... I know I'd buy it
PS. my Sony PVM is not a "jury-rigged solution", it supports 15kHz RGBS natively ... it also supports Chroma/Luma and works great with my C64. :)
-
The Indy's are about $200 aud each (~ double the price of an a500), that's bloody expensive - if Jens had any sense he'd make an affordable external version ... I know I'd buy it
Exchange rates are a funny thing. Just checked my receipt, I paid $106 USD for mine. Which is far less than the price of any Amiga around here. *sigh* :(
-
They make Indivisions for all models of Amiga.
What about the Sega Mega Drive? and the Sega Genesis? And the Super Nintendo? and every other 15Khz game console or computer?
-
What about the Sega Mega Drive? and the Sega Genesis? And the Super Nintendo? and every other 15Khz game console or computer?
Last I checked this was an Amiga forum. And the subject of the thread was "Converting from Amiga". Smart ass. ;)
-
And that is identical to my own. I am curious if there is something else involved. I will do some tests with just booting up from floppies to rule out anything funny going on with my Workbench settings.
Mine is identical to DanBeever's unit he posted pics of HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=765987&postcount=20).
-
It is spelled, "DanBeaver," as the last name is British, derived from "Beaverbrook."
-
Since I have the A500, that would be the Indivision ECS. My goal now is to stay in the 15KHz domain and steer clear of scan doublers/flicker fixers/hacking my case. I also read about some bugginess with this adapter and the firmware hasn't been updated in a while. Then, there's the availability of the hardware itself. AmigaKit's stock shows "T.B.A".
They make Indivisions for all models of Amiga. I use them in my A500 and A2000 and would never go back, or consider any of these hacked up, "save a penny", jury-rigged solutions in these threads. But, have fun with that! ;)
-
It is spelled, "DanBeaver," as the last name is British, derived from "Beaverbrook."
Lol sorry, my bad. :)
-
Last I checked this was an Amiga forum. And the subject of the thread was "Converting from Amiga". Smart ass. ;)
I'd be surprised if most of us didnt have more than just our Amiga's that needed 15kHz video support.
-
I have the A500+ using an Indi ECS, no issues. The picture is a lot sharper than when I had a SCART setup.
For quality from bad to worse SCART -> Svideo adapter from Amigamaniac -> Indi ECS. If I had to choose the cheapest and best option it was the Svideo adapter + Svideo to HDMI adapter.
Best solution not including price, Indi ECS.
Same situation for the A1200 which I can also use the Svideo adapter. Love the 1080p WB screen with the Indi Mkii.
As for other consoles, my DC has a VGA adapter box. The Master system has been modded with onboard component and other interesting mods etc etc....
-
Sorry all - I wasn't trying to be a smart arse. I just question the sanity of trying multiple RGB/SVHS->HDMI converters at ~$50 each when an Indivision is only ~$100 or so and provides proper digital DVI/HDMI out.
I do agree it's an expensive solution if you run multiple Amigas but after running an Indi I think I'd have difficulty adjusting to something converted from SCART again.
Not that the Indi is perfect, I believe some models have issues with scan rates causing jerky scrolling in games (perhaps just a PAL issue?). I rarely play games so it's a non-issue for me.
-
I have the A500+ using an Indi ECS, no issues. The picture is a lot sharper than when I had a SCART setup.
For quality from bad to worse SCART -> Svideo adapter from Amigamaniac -> Indi ECS. If I had to choose the cheapest and best option it was the Svideo adapter + Svideo to HDMI adapter.
Best solution not including price, Indi ECS.
Same situation for the A1200 which I can also use the Svideo adapter. Love the 1080p WB screen with the Indi Mkii.
As for other consoles, my DC has a VGA adapter box. The Master system has been modded with onboard component and other interesting mods etc etc....
I've got Kipper2k's S-Video/Composite adapter and the picture from that on my TV's is fantastic ... but then my Pioneer and Sony TV's do have very good video processing electronics in them. I would say that the PQ is only about 5-10% less than using my RGB-YUV converter.
The benchmark for me is my 800 line 14" Sony PVM-14M4A Professional CRT Broadcast monitor which natively supports the Amiga's RGBs signal ... the RGB-YUV converter produces a picture so close to this it's not funny, in-fact on my 50" Professional Pioneer plasma Monitor I'd say it's damn near perfect in every respect. My Plasma also supports the Amiga RGBs via it's VGA port so I can compare the 2 and despite being a PQ Nazi I have trouble telling the difference.
Btw, it's worth noting that the conversion from RGBs to YUV is a relatively simple mathematical conversion and doesnt require scaling or any other processing.
-
And that is what has me thinking the SCART to Component converter will be my best option now. With nothing fancy going on, it will leave my LCD to handle all the processing. Indications so far show none of the annoying side effects.
Btw, it's worth noting that the conversion from RGBs to YUV is a relatively simple mathematical conversion and doesnt require scaling or any other processing.
-
I hate to throw fuel on the fire, but a thread on EAB. (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76349) about the Framemeister (http://solarisjapan.com/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit) May do this. Big Dogs with deep pockets ($300 USD) need only apply.
-
I hate to throw fuel on the fire, but a thread on EAB. (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76349) about the Framemeister (http://solarisjapan.com/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit) May do this. Big Dogs with deep pockets ($300 USD) need only apply.
You can buy a DVDO Edge or VP30 for less than that.
-
Those were not discussed in the thread.
-
Those were not discussed in the thread.
You can read about almost every Video Processor ever made and it's retro performance here:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
-
I'm sorry but have you checked prices & availability (DVDO Edge is discontinued and only for sale on eBay beginning at $202 USD used or $500 new) and the DVDO VP30 is $2000 USD (or used on eBay for $185 X1 vs $230 USD).
-
In addition to that, however, I found another problem I find more offensive. Take a look at the attached image. Why the zipper-like pattern? I am using overscan on my Workbench screen to maximize the display, but since it shows up on games as well, I have no control over those.
This happens on NTSC signals only (what I will be using most of the time). PAL signals do not show this.
That's normal for NTSC video; alternate lines are longer/shorter. You see the same thing if you e.g. connect an Amiga 3000's VGA output to a monitor and reduce the image width. The zipper pattern isn't usually visible on 4:3 monitors since it's normally past the right edge of the screen. With a 16:9 screen however, unless the TV and/or converter blanks the extreme right edge of the image, you see the effect.
A couple of workarounds for Workbench use: run a border-blanking program to set the border to black. Or force interlace mode (run Lacer 1). That way the zipper pattern should alternate on successive frames, which may or may not be less annoying.
-
Thank you very much for the info. This explains why I have seen this in the past with my A3000.
So the reason I do not see this when I send my LCD display a native 15KHz signal is probably due to the display chopping it off internally?
This gives me hope again for the SCART to component adapter. I have already tested the mono output to the LCD's GREEN component input, and besides the lack of color, there were none of the other problems I mentioned.
In the mean time, I will hunt down the border blanking program.
That's normal for NTSC video; alternate lines are longer/shorter. You see the same thing if you e.g. connect an Amiga 3000's VGA output to a monitor and reduce the image width. The zipper pattern isn't usually visible on 4:3 monitors since it's normally past the right edge of the screen. With a 16:9 screen however, unless the TV and/or converter blanks the extreme right edge of the image, you see the effect.
A couple of workarounds for Workbench use: run a border-blanking program to set the border to black. Or force interlace mode (run Lacer 0). That way the zipper pattern should alternate on successive frames, which may or may not be less annoying.
-
I'm sorry but have you checked prices & availability (DVDO Edge is discontinued and only for sale on eBay beginning at $202 USD used or $500 new) and the DVDO VP30 is $2000 USD (or used on eBay for $185 X1 vs $230 USD).
I've seen them second hand on eBay for less then the $350 USD of the FM on a regular basis. Setting as they are a proper home theatre Video processor they are imo a much better value purchase.
-
The FM sells for $292 USD plus shipping (3 options) via Solaris and is new sans eBay BS.
-
Sigh. I received my SCART to component adapter, plugged in my same RGB to SCART cable I have used successfully with my other converter box, but no picture! I tried it on my TV's component video input also. Still nothing. It acts like it is trying to synch but nada....
Could it just be a bad unit? I have read about other people having to pop open the case and make adjustments but I'm not getting anything to adjust.
-
Well if it arrived dead and you open it, then you void your warranty.
-
Not sure if this thingy even qualifies to have a warranty. The seller does have a return policy, however. I have already contacted them. Waiting for a reply.
Well if it arrived dead and you open it, then you void your warranty.
-
Well, I've gotten 3 SCART to HDMI converters and they all work first thing right out of the box, so contacting the seller is a good idea.
-
The seller agreed to send me another unit. It does seem unlikely that the converter box would fail though.
I am starting to question my RGB to SCART cable. Yes, it works fine with the SCART to HDMI box, but I am reading that not all RGB to SCART cables are the same. Perhaps this new box is a bit more sensitve.
@djos, did you say you got your cable at AmigaKit also?
-
Hmmm.....here is another possibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video
Perhaps I am dealing with the difference between RGB and Luma Component. The Amiga RGB to SCART is sending out RGB and is presumably staying that way through the converter box, but my display devices are expecting Luma-based component. Sigh. Since I will not be able to change the expectations of my display devices, this could go nowhere.
However, what if there are other versions of the SCART to Component converters? I don't think they distinguish between the two, though.
-
The seller agreed to send me another unit. It does seem unlikely that the converter box would fail though.
I am starting to question my RGB to SCART cable. Yes, it works fine with the SCART to HDMI box, but I am reading that not all RGB to SCART cables are the same. Perhaps this new box is a bit more sensitve.
@djos, did you say you got your cable at AmigaKit also?
Yep, both of my Amiga scart cables are from amigakit and both work fine with my RGB to YUV converter, however the converter only works with 2 of my 3 tv's. The tv which doesn't seem to like the sync or mode or something.
-
Hmmm.....here is another possibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video
Perhaps I am dealing with the difference between RGB and Luma Component. The Amiga RGB to SCART is sending out RGB and is presumably staying that way through the converter box, but my display devices are expecting Luma-based component. Sigh. Since I will not be able to change the expectations of my display devices, this could go nowhere.
However, what if there are other versions of the SCART to Component converters? I don't think they distinguish between the two, however.
Correct, there are multiple RGB to YUV converters out there, I have 2 and only 1 of them works with Amiga Video due to the sync method used.
Here is the one I have that doesn't work, if you look at the board layout you can see that this one takes the sync from the composite signal of the scart connector.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/99dwhyylhlchwv7/Photo%206-06-2012%207%2017%2031%20pm.jpg
-
I too have a fine SCART cable from Amigakit, plus 2 other from a well known Amigan in Greece. All work well. Now I do use the SCART to HDMI converters, but they work on all my monitors and TVs
-
So I wonder how I tell which one I need to get. Apparently, this one has trouble with the Amiga:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370695549240?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
because that is the one I purchased.
Correct, there are multiple RGB to YUV converters out there, I have 2 and only 1 of them works with Amiga Video due to the sync method used.
-
Sounds like I can rule out my cable then and instead focus on getting the correct SCART to Component adapter.
I too have a fine SCART cable from Amigakit, plus 2 other from a well known Amigan in Greece. All work well. Now I do use the SCART to HDMI converters, but they work on all my monitors and TVs
-
So I wonder how I tell which one I need to get. Apparently, this one has trouble with the Amiga:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370695549240?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
because that is the one I purchased.
Thats the one I have... its not so much an issue with the Amiga, but rather the TV it's being used on, and mine works on every tv I've tried it on ;)
It should be possible to modify the adapter to work on every tv, but I haven't looked into this...
-
So I wonder how I tell which one I need to get. Apparently, this one has trouble with the Amiga:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370695549240?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
because that is the one I purchased.
That's the one I have too and it works perfectly on two of my three tv's.
-
I was afraid someone might say this. My "works with friggin' everything, multiple video ports Dell U2410" does not like the signal coming from the converter nor does my 2005 Sharp TV, yet they both work natively (15KHz) over VGA.
I cannot use VGA due to other problems, however. This is why I was moving towards component.
Thats the one I have... its not so much an issue with the Amiga, but rather the TV it's being used on, and mine works on every tv I've tried it on ;)
It should be possible to modify the adapter to work on every tv, but I haven't looked into this...
-
I am considering the possibility of modifying, but have found no resources on this. Honestly not sure what to plug into Google. The only thing that comes close are people that have opened them up to adjust pots for improving image quality.
Does anyone here: 1) Know anyone in North America that uses one of these component converters with an Amiga and a TV sold in this country or 2) Know how to modify one of these devices to address a possible compatibility issue?
I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron and can identify most electrical components. If I have a good set of instructions, it should not be a problem.
Thats the one I have... its not so much an issue with the Amiga, but rather the TV it's being used on, and mine works on every tv I've tried it on ;)
It should be possible to modify the adapter to work on every tv, but I haven't looked into this...
-
I am considering the possibility of modifying, but have found no resources on this. Honestly not sure what to plug into Google. The only thing that comes close are people that have opened them up to adjust pots for improving image quality.
I'm looking into these modifications now, as I've found my new monitors (which are TVs) don't support the output from this adapter...
I'll try and find some information on what's needed...
edit: the issue is basically that standard definition uses a bi level sync, while high definition uses tri level... just googling it now ;)
-
Are you referring to the SCART to Component adapter?
-
indeed!
-
I appreciate your effort. I am intrigued. However, the more I examine the comments from people using this adapter (mostly from game console users), the more it is apparent that the device is outputting a 240p resolution. Unless you can modify it to output 480i, I do not think I will have any hope of it working with my displays.
I'm looking into these modifications now, as I've found my new monitors (which are TVs) don't support the output from this adapter...
I'll try and find some information on what's needed...
edit: the issue is basically that standard definition uses a bi level sync, while high definition uses tri level... just googling it now ;)
-
My results are much the same as magnetic's. I see a rock-solid monochromatic image, in the correct aspect-ratio as well! The TV reports it as 480i. :)
Unfortunately, when I switch to PAL mode, the screen goes blank. :(
I will test an interlaced screen when I get my WB 3.1 booted up again.
Is this the tv/monitor that worked with the composite signal fed into the "green" connector on the component input?
But now you're saying it doesn't work with the scart to component adapter?
I ask, because my tv that doesn't work with the scart to component adapter also does NOTHING with the composite signal fed into the "green"component input....
I'll see what my other tvs report the signal as being with the scart to component adapter... I've never looked!
-
That's correct! Both of my displays will accept the A500's monochrome out into the green component input and, on top of the that, the results are perfect except for the lack of color.
Is this the tv/monitor that worked with the composite signal fed into the "green" connector on the component input?
But now you're saying it doesn't work with the scart to component adapter?
I ask, because my tv that doesn't work with the scart to component adapter also does NOTHING with the composite signal fed into the "green"component input....
I'll see what my other tvs report the signal as being with the scart to component adapter... I've never looked!
-
connect the "red" and "blue" lines from the scart to component adapter, and use the monochrome/composite output from the amiga as the "green" input, and see what happens?
-
You....sir.....are....the MAN!!!! :D I need to know how to add the "i'm not worthy" and the "beer salute" animated GIFs.....darn it, I never learned this!
Now I can also see why people needed to open these up and make adjustments. There is too much green in the signal. I know I can find some info on this that will help out. Incidentally, does anyone know a way to display SMPTE color bars on an Amiga screen? :) There's gotta be something out there with the long history of the Amiga in the video world (excluding the toaster).
So.....very wise of you to suggest using the working Luma signal and blending it with the other two. The fact that this works must be revealing something.
connect the "red" and "blue" lines from the scart to component adapter, and use the monochrome/composite output from the amiga as the "green" input, and see what happens?
-
There's something very weird about your screen, as mine that won't accept the signal, won't work with a composite signal fed into the "green" component input at all...
Yours probably only needs adjusting because the level of the signal from the monochrome output is higher/different than expected...
-
You may need to add a resistor or capacitor, or both, or a potentiometer, into the "green" line from the monochrome output from the amiga to be able to adjust it how you want...
-
Actually, it is a common problem with these converters but it can be corrected by just adjusting some potentiometers inside.
Here is just one example:
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?244245-RGB-SCART-to-YUV-Component-pot-knob-resistor-screw-adjustment-amp-troubleshootin
But since I am using the converter differently, you think the mono signal from the Amiga is the source? "Too much green" is what others with the converter box usually mention. Also, my photos do not give an accurate representation of what I am seeing. I was only posting to show there is color now.
You may need to add a resistor or capacitor, or both, or a potentiometer, into the "green" line from the monochrome output from the amiga to be able to adjust it how you want...
-
Twiddle away and see how you go! But I think an incorrect level on the "green" input, that you can't adjust, will mean you won't be able to get it right ;)
But, I could be wrong, its happened before :P
-
Just out of curiosity, I connected my second SCART to Component box (same seller sent me a replacement) and it did not display the same level of green, so more evidence that the box is the source.
Also, it would appear that the "green" cable is not actually the source of the green in the component signal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YPbPr
So getting back to this clever idea you had to try this in the first place, does this conclude that this is a sync problem with what is coming out of the box? Does this help you in your quest to make your own mods?
Twiddle away and see how you go! But I think an incorrect
level on the "green" input, that you can't adjust, will mean you won't be able to get it right ;)
But, I could be wrong, its happened before :P
-
Just out of curiosity, I connected my second SCART to Component box (same seller sent me a replacement) and it did not display the same level of green, so more evidence that the box is the source.
Also, it would appear that the "green" cable is not actually the source of the green in the component signal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YPbPr
So getting back to this clever idea you had to try this in the first place, does this conclude that this is a sync problem with what is coming out of the box? Does this help you in your quest to make your own mods?
As far as I'm aware, the sync on the rgb port of the amiga should be the same as the sync on the monochrome output...
I'm wondering if your scart cable is actually wrong, as I believe they both should simply be composite sync...
Oh yeah, its not green, that's why I keep putting "green" in quotes ;)
But it does effect the amount of green from memory... :P
-
It would be fair to consider the cable as a possible contributor, as it was made to order. Something could have been wired incorrectly. How could it be tested, though? Please read previous posts on pin tests. Per djos, the Amiga RGB to SCART cable shouldn't be doing much at all.
As far as I'm aware, the sync on the rgb port of the amiga should be the same as the sync on the monochrome output...
I'm wondering if your scart cable is actually wrong, as I believe they both should simply be composite sync...
-
I've been trying this with a Sega Megadrive/Genesis... and I'm confused....
This tv won't take the composite signal, from the megadrive, on the "green" component input, and it doesn't work with the scart to component adapter...
But... it will take a composite signal from another source, and display a black and white image, so it doesn't seem to be a bi/tri level sync issue at all?
-
Megadrive update (for my own reference) it won't display the composite signal on the "green" component input at all...
it will display the "green" output from the scart to component adapter when fed into the composite input, in black and white, but it constantly drops sync....
BRB, getting my master system!
Master system does as I would expect... anything fed into the component "green" says "not support"
Anything fed into the composite input displays an image (black and white for the "green" from the component output from the scart to component adapter)
-
Sorry to hear you are not having the same luck I am. I hope it inspires you to continue testing and possibly modifying one of these boxes to work natively.
I checked on another source for a well constructed RGB to SCART cable but the minimum cable length offered is 2m. That's a lot of unnecessary cable for my setup. I suppose I could build my own but not really wanting to take on too many projects at the moment.
-
Where did your current cable come from? How is it wired?
-
AmigaKit. How is it wired?? That, I would not know. R,B, & G are definitely passing it through it. What happens with regard to sync.......your guess is as good as mine. :)
Where did your current cable come from? How is it wired?
-
Ian Steadman's schematic has a 330 ohm resistor on the Csync with the RGB going straight thru
-
Ian Steadman's schematic has a 330 ohm resistor on the Csync with the RGB going straight thru
His latest version had 220uF caps on each of the RGB lines Iirc.
-
I'm beginning to think that these issues actually have nothing to do with bi/tri level sync, but are rather the Amiga/Segas 15khz refresh rate rearing its ugly head again....
This TV has no issue with the scart to component adapter when connected to the RGB output of a Nintendo Gamecube....
It makes me wonder if the monochrome output of the Amiga 500 is actually 31Khz... or at least higher than 15khz...
I was reading that apparently it was intended for word processing on a monochrome screen, and apparently had less flicker in interlaced mode than the RGB output of the Amiga.....
Its all starting to make sense now isn't it?
-
I have a Dell 2405fpw that I figured would fail with the scart to component adapter... but it doesn't...
Although there's some jitter, it displays both the Megadrive and Master Systems fine, so I assume will also display the Amiga...
It reports the signal as being 240p or 288p depending if its 60Hz or 50Hz...
-
His latest version had 220uF caps on each of the RGB lines Iirc.
Oh, you mean the schematic that says, "Provisional design for trial use only?"
-
Oh, you mean the schematic that says, "Provisional design for trial use only?"
yep.
-
Sony TV reports the sega as 480i...
The tv's I've had issues with are Kogan, and they seem to be horrible... they don't even display composite properly...
-
Both the Megadrive and Master system are outputting 15.6Khz horizontal, 49.7Hz vertical sync...
The plug in Tetris game, that will sync when connected to the "green" component outputs 15.6Khz, and 50Hz....
So, that answered nothing at all!
I'm about to test the Amiga 500's monochrome output, but have a feeling its going to be the same 15.6Khz and answer nothing!
Edit: Amiga 500, 15.6Khz/49.9Hz...
-
I love my new Framemeister!
-
I love my new Framemeister!
And I love my Sony PVM14M4A Trinitron monitor. :D
-
Today I made a discovery...
This time a Super Nintendo!
The internet told me I needed to connect each of the R,G,B lines to ground, through 75 ohm resistors, but I decided to leave them out, and see what would happen...
TV reports "Not Supported" and this was a TV that had worked with everything before... (Amiga, MegaDrive, Master System, N64, Gamecube)
Stick the resistors in, works fine! SO I'm thinking the issue with the Kogan TV isn't a sync issue at all....
-
(Activate Farnsworth voice)
Good neeeewwwwsss everyone!!!
As a matter of curiosity and because I was never really satisfied with my original cable I bought, I sought out a better RGB to SCART cable. I really liked the build quality I saw here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Commodore-Amiga-A1200-All-Models-High-Quality-RGB-Scart-Lead-Cable-TV-Lead-/251044312902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a73683746
So I made my purchase. The cable arrived today and, as expected, it worked just fine with the redirected cable arrangement. So, just for sh*ts and giggles, I thought I would try it with all three cables connected to the converter....and guess what? It works!
So that either means my AmigaKit cable is not wired correctly or it is just wired to different standards. Can I make the case that it is *wrong* and I should ask for a return/exchange based on this new discovery? The wiring of these cables seems to vary from person to person, so who I am to say something is wrong? Is there a standard?
-
Good work, Im gonna buy one and try it on my TV that doesnt currently like converted Amiga-RGB to Component. :)
PS, I have their C64 video cables and they are great.
-
You won't regret it. The quality of this cable is excellent. And, it uses a true DB23 connector. I'm wondering if Retro Computer Shack found a source for the DB23s and gobbled them all up.
Good work, Im gonna buy one and try it on my TV that doesnt currently like converted Amiga-RGB to Component. :)
PS, I have their C64 video cables and they are great.
-
Sigh.
Well, I have to retract some of what I said. It is true that I am getting a signal out of the converter using the new SCART cable now. At first glance, I saw what looked like a little RF interference and was planning on swapping it out with a better cable. I did not continue to work with the computer, though. So when I sat down a little longer, I noticed the slight RF interference degraded into a strong image instability problem. It is hard to describe, but basically the image is filled with mangled graphics and the original wavy interference lines. In short, it is unusable as it appears.
Still, the fact that I am getting an image out of the converter now would seem to indicate that achieving a stable picture from the converter is possible with the right cable-- one made to certain specs perhaps?
@djos, I still think you're better off with a Retro Computer Shack cable, but you may want to reconsider after this update.
-
No worries, I'm happy to take a punt as an experiment.
-
Revisiting this thread because I recently acquired a fairly stock NTSC Amiga 1200 in good condition. I will be cleaning it up, checking the caps, moving my ACA1232 over and may eventually get an Indivision MKII.
In the mean time, I was rather displeased to discover another problem using my SCART to component converter box. Look at the attachment and compare it against my previous photos in the thread. It seems there is something it is not liking about the RGB video again. All the colors are there but it looks like it is being subjected to massive RF interference or something. I tried two different component cables just to be sure. I do have the top RF shield removed at the moment but I do not believe it is at fault.
I really thought I would see an improvement with the A1200 but just the opposite happened. I cannot do the monochrome-out bypass that worked so awesomely with the A500. The A1200's color composite does not help me much, either. My Dell U2410 actually has a composite input but it doesn't like what it is getting from the A1200.
Fortunately, I can get by with the Amiga RGB --> VGA adapter for now. I still see the ugly vertical lines as I did with the A500 and the colors are not as good as component but it will do until I can find a better solution.
I may have to crack open the converter box and see if adjusting the pots helps.
-
More on this subject. :)
Decided to try the SCART to HDMI converter box (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-to-HDMI-720P-1080P-HD-Video-Converter-Monitor-Box-For-HDTV-DVD-STB-WP-/121649366404?hash=item1c52de0584:g:FWYAAOSwBahVUcth) with the A1200 and a relatively new Vizio 4K TV. As I suspected would be the case, at the "HDTV" viewing distance, the motion artifacts are not a problem. I can still make out the slightly wavy vertical lines but that also is not a big deal, especially during game play.
What I did not at all anticipate is that whatever digital audio signal is being passed over HDMI connector is not being detected by my AV receiver (an old Yamaha RX-V3800). When connected directly to another input on the Vizio TV, audio is working! When I go to inspect the signal info the TV is receiving, it shows the video at the resolution that the box is outputting (1024x768 in this case) but next to audio, nothing is shown! Huh?
So my question to those who might be in the know, what format is the digital audio coming out of this box? I would think it would be CD-quality PCM. Even if it was 48KHz PCM or even Bitstream, my AVR could receive that. Not sure why it isn't working.
There is another another option, however. I can test the digital coaxial output and see if my receiver can detect this. I would imagine the box is sending the same signal in two directions, though. I would not expect something different.