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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Colani1200 on September 18, 2013, 03:39:23 PM
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Is there a software tool to determine the board revision of an A500 without opening the case? Or any other possibility?
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use Sysinfo to determine the Agnus Revision, only the last boards v7 had a 2M Agnus.
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Is there a software tool to determine the board revision of an A500 without opening the case? Or any other possibility?
I think this question has been asked before, and AFAIK no, not with any certainty. A couple ideas though: an older model will typically have a red power light (revision 3, 4, or 5), newer model will have a green power light (revision 6 or 8 motherboard). This is not with 100% certainty, however, since many motherboards and keyboards get swapped around.
Another suggestion would be to check amount of available chip memory - a newer model would be more likely to have 1MB or 2MB. Again, not 100%.
Am sure others will come along with other tips! :)
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I think mine has red power LED and its rev 6.
kickstart version might be helpful.
also, perhaps, serial number and date (if there is one).
otherwise get some tiny camera and use vent slots? :)
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I have never heard of a tool to do this. What benefit would there be besides saving a few minutes of undoing a few screws to visually check yourself?
If there was a tool, as others have hinted at, I don't think there would be one to do it accurately. "Educated guess" "likely scenario" results would be possible based on hardware configuration such as RAM, Agnus and so on...........but not an "accurate conclusion". Too many possible overlapping variables and user hacks/modifications would be why it would only be a "guess".
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I have never heard of a tool to do this. What benefit would there be besides saving a few minutes of undoing a few screws to visually check yourself?
Intact warranty seal. + Saving time when you have to check a large number of machines. ;)
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Intact warranty seal. + Saving time when you have to check a large number of machines. ;)
I probably don't see your requirement.
If you never intend to open it up, why would you care? SysInfo will reveal how the memory is mapped, report the KS version, and distinguish the ECS (versions?) from the OCS chips. Is there something else?
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Intact warranty seal. + Saving time when you have to check a large number of machines. ;)
Just what are you getting at here? How many machines do you have? ;)
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Is there a software tool to determine the board revision of an A500 without opening the case? Or any other possibility?
No, the motherboard revision can only be determined by opening the case.
You can find out the kickstart version & whether it's OCS/ECS but that doesn't pin down the motherboard revision.
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If you never intend to open it up, why would you care?
Because knowing if it's OCS or ECS, may satisfy your OCD! OMG LOL :D
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Intact warranty seal. + Saving time when you have to check a large number of machines. ;)
Hi,
Oh no, I just opened up and repaired my Amiga 500, does that mean I lost my warranty with Commodore?
Not only that but I found out that my book with the same version B didn't match up with the computer V B. Then after looking around I found out that there were 3 different version B rock lobsters (all that I could find) and yet my ver B did not match any of the three. (sigh).
and then today I find out that I lost my warranty with Commodore? Could things get any worse?
Oh, woe is me!!!
smerf
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Gee wiz! This is a tuff thread.
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Simply the motherboard revision can't be determined in software.
On other platforms where software can recognise the motherboard, because that information is stored on one of the chips e.g. the BIOS, the software might still not pick up an individual revision. A real example is that I have a PC with an Asus A8N-SLI motherboard which was replaced under warranty. The new board was ever-so slightly updated with a fan power header in a different place and so probably some other changes. But it was still an A8N-SLI and nothing reported any differences.
On an Amiga 500, the motherboard is the green circuit board containing the tracks and sockets. The other bits such as the actual chips and LEDs can be interchangeable. (I THINK that some people have even taken an A500 OCS and put in ECS chips to effectively make it a 500+). So if the information to determine a motherboard is stored in a chip, and you have swapped that chip out, the information reported back would be wrong.
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I probably don't see your requirement.
If you never intend to open it up, why would you care?
Just out of interest. And if it is a revision that can be easily expanded to 1 MB chip RAM onboard, I might decide to open it.
Just what are you getting at here? How many machines do you have? ;)
6 or 7 (I think).
Oh no, I just opened up and repaired my Amiga 500, does that mean I lost my warranty with Commodore?
Yes, it's wothless now. Better give it to me. :D
Gee wiz! This is a tuff thread.
Sorry for starting this... ;)
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I've come up with an idea to avoid opening the case and destroying the warranty seal to view the revision.
Just drill a big fricken' 2" round hole through the top of the case and through the sheidling. It will be there in all it's glory. Dada - warranty seal intact! :D
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Just out of interest. And if it is a revision that can be easily expanded to 1 MB chip RAM onboard, I might decide to open it.
IIRC, all of the A500 versions sold in North America can remap the trap door A501 from SLOW memory to CHIP ram, for a total of 1Meg of CHIP. The case must be opened to do this.
The MegaChip product (2 Megs of CHIP with a special Agnus on board) could be added to all of these. Again, the case must be opened.
There is a hack on Aminet to modify (rev 5 and 6?) motherboards to get 2 Megs of CHIP. You replace the Agnus and memory chips. I did this 15 years ago. ;) The A501 is retained only for the clock.
The A500+, primarily sold in Europe, was the only 500 that came with 1 Meg of CHIP standard, expandable to 2 Megs of CHIP with a different trap door memory expansion.
Practically speaking, after remappting the trap door for 1 MB of CHIP memory, the next biggest bang and cost effective expansion is FAST ram. This also speeds CPU operations. After remapping and adding some FAST, I can't remember ever running out of CHIP memory.
Sorry for starting this... ;)
It's a good discussion. I was referring to the sarcasm of some of the replies.
Try NOT to advertise owning more than 1 or 2 Amigas, regardless of how they jumped into your possession. ;) There are a few here who are irrationally jealous of others they label as "hoarders".
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Put an ionizing fire alarm on top of the part where the motherboard revision is located and a photographic film beneath. Leave it for a week or whatever that is needed to expose the film. Then send the film for development to get the data.
(perhaps multiple exposure digital camera works too)
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The only way to accomplish this feat is to X-ray the computer. Have a friend who's a dentist?
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I'd give anything to find a rev 6 or 8 mobo..... that and a spare key spring for the one that was missing when I saved my A500 from the bin.
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and a spare key spring for the one that was missing when I saved my A500 from the bin.
Cut in half and stretch - works but feel is a little different.
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I've come up with an idea to avoid opening the case and destroying the warranty seal to view the revision.
Just drill a big fricken' 2" round hole through the top of the case and through the sheidling. It will be there in all it's glory. Dada - warranty seal intact! :D
Now, this is what I would call good common sense! Had veeery good laugh, thanks dude! :)
Wait, where I put my 2" drill bit... ;)
And back to the original poster, YOU really can get that small tiny little camera tool from SnapOn and such vendors, which plumbers and mechanics use to sneak in tight places, so in theory you can sneak this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPbhf21i6k into really tight orifices of YOUR amiga and see her inner self. Remember to use ruuber gloves, man! ;)
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Just drill a big fricken' 2" round hole through the top of the case and through the sheidling.
One of the best ideas so far. :lol:
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Does WhichAmiga not help?
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How many different revision boards are there?
I know of 3, 5, 6a and 8a? are there others?
I'm fairly confident you'd be able to work out what revision the board is, but I only have a 6a and 5 to look at, but can easily tell the difference without opening the case...
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How many different revision boards are there?
I know of 3, 5, 6a and 8a? are there others?
I'm fairly confident you'd be able to work out what revision the board is, but I only have a 6a and 5 to look at, but can easily tell the difference without opening the case...
How would you work it out?
There is a Rev 8A.1 as well. I think there is a Rev 7 as well. There may be others.
I am sure if Piru was here he could help and explain it. But he's not. But, just think along the lines of his whichamiga program. It sometimes states that "Your computer is probably an Amiga 1200"...or..."Your computer is an Amiga or compatible"...or...sometimes spot on specifically "Your computer is an Amiga 1200". Sometimes you can be confident, sometimes you cant.
And that is the also part of the problem with telling the motherboard revision via a software program. The software program doesn't know for example that "you've owned the computer since new" and that "you know it has never been opened" and therefore can't reliably use any kind of hardware spec peeking code to accurately tell you what the motherboard is based on expected specs. The software doesn't know if it's been modified. It could assume, but not know.
What if Agnus has been changed? What if Denise has been upgraded? What if Kickstart has been changed? What if a chip RAM hack has been done? What if all these changes and more were done to one motherboard?
At best, a software tool may be able to state "Your motherboard is *probably* a Rev x" based on expected specifications....but not accurately "Your motherboard *is* a Rev x".
In saying that I haven't specifically sat down and made a table of motherboard and related specs and cross referenced the possible outcomes.
In saying all the above, I was wrong once, but that was a looooooooooong time ago :D
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Schrödinger's A500. It's all Amiga 500s until you open the case, then your observation determines which A500 it is.
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turn the case upside down!
you can look through the slot vents under the memory, and see if it has the single row of memory chips, with every second one missing, or the two rows of chips with all being populated...
then at least you'll know if its a rev3/5 or rev6a/8
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turn the case upside down!
A great suggestion! And with the benefit of hindsight - so obvious :D
Perhaps a combination of this method + something else may be the answer?
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A great suggestion! And with the benefit of hindsight - so obvious :D
Perhaps a combination of this method + something else may be the answer?
I've only got rev5 and rev6a boards... but I believe there are enough differences with components and their locations that you could figure out if it was a rev3 or rev8 as well....
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I've only got rev5 and rev6a boards... but I believe there are enough differences with components and their locations that you could figure out if it was a rev3 or rev8 as well....
You're probably right...but I'm keeping in mind there is only a small viewing "window" from underneath...so it may be hard to see all those differences through the case with the naked eye. As someone else previously mentioned, a flexi-camera may help here. A quick glance at different openings in the casing (zorro slot side, floppy drive side, trapdoor access and various vent holes) makes me think this is probably possible with a camera.
This has got me intriqued :D I'm now thinking that, while not practical, the answer is YES to the original posters question. Regardless of the "easiest" solution being - "just open the case to see"!
PS. I've got Rev 5, 6a, 8A and 8A.1 here...I am checking them all out now...
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turn the case upside down!
you can look through the slot vents under the memory, and see if it has the single row of memory chips, with every second one missing, or the two rows of chips with all being populated...
then at least you'll know if its a rev3/5 or rev6a/8
All my a500's have shielding around the entire motherboard. You can't see anything through the case vents, or pretty much anywhere else for that matter.
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All my a500's have shielding around the entire motherboard. You can't see anything through the case vents, or pretty much anywhere else for that matter.
Are you 100% sure? I thought mine were too...until I actually looked. It's certainly not a clear view...but you can make out parts (the RAM area as Ammo suggested) through the underneath vents/clear plastic motherboard insulation sheet.
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As said, all the ones I've looked at have the same slots cut out in the metal shield, but have a translucent sheet, which you should still be able to tell if its rev3/5 or rev6/8... Although I'm not sure that helps much :P
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Schrödinger's A500. It's all Amiga 500s until you open the case, then your observation determines which A500 it is.
;)
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Schrödinger's A500.
Schrodinger never owned an A500! Or did he? ;)
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As said, all the ones I've looked at have the same slots cut out in the metal shield, but have a translucent sheet, which you should still be able to tell if its rev3/5 or rev6/8... Although I'm not sure that helps much :P
hmm, yeah the plastic looks reflective so unless you shine a light on it you don't see anything & even then it's tricky to make out. It would be interesting to get pictures of each revision though as it might be that it's enough, if there are slight variances in component placement.
I'm not sure why you'd want to know what revision it was though. What people want to know is:
Kickstart
Agnus
Denise
You can probably figure out which revision it is from that tbh.
I think rev 3 was kickstart 1.2, rev 5 was kickstart 1.3 (although some people seem to have rev 5 with 1.2 roms, so whether you have a commodore or amiga key might give it away). Both were OCS.
Rev 6 was ECS but still kickstart 1.3, it might only be ECS agnus though and not ECS denise.
Rev 8 will definitively be ECS, probably 2.04 but it's been known to be 1.3 as well. I don't know if there is a way to tell the difference between a rev 8 configured as an a500 and a rev 6 (possibly only if you can detect the difference between a 1mb agnus with 0.5mb ram and a 2mb agnus with 0.5mb ram).
It wouldn't surprise me if commodore shipped some rev 3 with 1.3 though if they found some old pcb's in a box somewhere, the same for keyboards. You got what you got.
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I had a factory sealed Rev5 with a 1.2 ks, and a keyboard that looked like all my other Amiga 500's?
Anyway, why would you want to know... so you don't have to open it! lol
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I had a factory sealed Rev5 with a 1.2 ks, and a keyboard that looked like all my other Amiga 500's?
Anyway, why would you want to know... so you don't have to open it! lol
Do you know what the difference is between a rev 3 & rev 5 motherboard?
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Do you know what the difference is between a rev 3 & rev 5 motherboard?
2? :banana:
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2? :banana:
Get your math correct man. -2 not 2. :)
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Try x-raying the 500 from underneath.
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Did someone suggest using a heat gun and gently lifting the intact seal off before opening the case? This is how it is done on the A4000D.
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Did someone suggest using a heat gun and gently lifting the intact seal off before opening the case? This is how it is done on the A4000D.
What about write a software?
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What about write a software?
Good idea! The software can then look inside at the revision silk screened on the board to see if an ACA500 will work!
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Try x-raying the 500 from underneath.
Better yet, sprinkle some radioactive Cobalt-60 dust in there and shake it around and then use a Gamma camera to see what it says!
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Better yet, sprinkle some radioactive Cobalt-60 dust in there and shake it around and then use a Gamma camera to see what it says!
Nah, I'll just get out my hammer. :hammer:
(just going by the tools on your list!) ;)
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Yes, that will work AND leave the seal intact!
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Good idea! The software can then look inside at the revision silk screened on the board to see if an ACA500 will work!
Hmmmmm, I don't know * tug on his chin * why do I sense a sarcasm there? * shrugs * Yeah, I say we should write such software! :lol: