Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: takemehomegrandma on September 07, 2013, 06:00:45 PM
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It has been a long time coming, but finally the amount of MorphOS registrations has passed the 2000 mark!
http://www.morphzone.info/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5875&forum=14&start=600
Congratulations to the MorphOS team!
:D
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Wouldn't linking to the actual official announcement be better?
http://www.morphzone.info/modules/news/article_storyid_2068.html
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Wouldn't linking to the actual official announcement be better?
http://www.morphzone.info/modules/news/article_storyid_2068.html
Thanks!
:)
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I've really gotta get a supported mac g5 and get morphos. From everything I have seen, it really is "amiga done right!".
I wonder is amiga0s4 sold 2000 copies. I really doubt it...
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New from ASiegal via MorphZone
In order to celebrate the 2000th MorphOS registration, we'd like to thank our users for their support since the introduction of the MorphOS 2.0 in 2008. Since MorphOS 2.4, we've been expanding our hardware base to a variety of Apple PowerPC computers, including their excellent portables. The adoption rate of the Mac mini quickly surpassed the bPlan machines, and the Mini still remains the most popular MorphOS platform.
Hardware Statistics:
In order to celebrate the 2000th MorphOS registration, we'd like to thank our users for their support since the introduction of the MorphOS 2.0 in 2008. Since MorphOS 2.4, we've been expanding our hardware base to a variety of Apple PowerPC computers, including their excellent portables. The adoption rate of the Mac mini quickly surpassed the bPlan machines, and the Mini still remains the most popular MorphOS platform.
Hardware Statistics:
37% Mac Mini
25% Pegasos 2
12% Powerbooks
9% PowerMac G4
8% Efika
4% Pegasos 1
3% PowerMac G5
2% Others
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http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65866
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First off congrats to the MorphOS team as I've tried it on a friends system and its a very polished & professional OS; however, that being said,
From a similar thread over at amigawotld.net:
Considering most MOS users I know have at least 2 or more registrations that's hopefully close to 1000 users. Now don't get me wrong this can only be good news but I honestly thought there'd be alot more. So much for the 'cheap hardware will bring the masses' crowd.
It appears there's a lot more than cheap entry into ones decision in choosing an alternative OS.
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First off congrats to the MorphOS team as I've tried it on a friends system and its a very polished & professional OS; however, that being said,
From a similar thread over at amigawotld.net:
Considering most MOS users I know have at least 2 or more registrations that's hopefully close to 1000 users. Now don't get me wrong this can only be good news but I honestly thought there'd be alot more. So much for the 'cheap hardware will bring the masses' crowd.
It appears there's a lot more than cheap entry into ones decision in choosing an alternative OS.
Not to be rude and playing devil's advocate here, but it's AW.net. Do you honestly think "most AW.net users" have anything POSITIVE to say about MorphOS? It's the anti-christ to the majority of them there. That statement is just DRIPPING with diatribe.
And not to be a dick, but we don't really see OS4 releasing numbers, do we? ;)
This red vs blue sh!t is getting old as f*ck............:evil:
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Not to be rude and playing devil's advocate here, but it's AW.net. Do you honestly think "most AW.net users" have anything POSITIVE to say about MorphOS? It's the anti-christ to the majority of them there. That statement is just DRIPPING with diatribe.
And not to be a dick, but we don't really see OS4 releasing numbers, do we? ;)
To also play devils advocate :) , the statement wasn't put in the context of OS4 vs MorphOS. My own estimate is 700-1000 individual users, so a bald '1000 users' is probably on the optimistic side of realism.
He is also right about the cheap, plentiful hardware - I've made the same point myself on MZ. Cheap & available hardware are great things which lower barriers to entry, However if MorphOS team wants to increase numbers beyond the current small pool of remaining Amiga-fans, they still need to entice people to enter. That means some form of marketing (shudder) outside the community forums.
wrt the 'inactive users' point (and also zzd10h's strange comments) I'm sure there are some inactive users, but given that registrations only started in 2008 I doubt it's a large proportion - at least compared to the ~2004 userbase (when it was free) and commercially backed with kickass new hardware.
This red vs blue sh!t is getting old as f*ck............:evil:
It was born old. ;)
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So much for the 'cheap hardware will bring the masses' crowd.
It appears there's a lot more than cheap entry into ones decision in choosing an alternative OS.
Well, I think it's quite unrealistic to think that "the masses" would come unless OS is free and runs on x86 and even then it's quite unrealistic to think that they'd stay long enough to start loving the Amiga OS as we do :) But what's left from high end Amiga users "masses" it's very attractive for them and I guess it's succeeded on that area... 61-63% of the registered systems are Mac hw now. I'd think total amount and activity would be much smaller without these cheap options.
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First off congrats to the MorphOS team as I've tried it on a friends system and its a very polished & professional OS; however, that being said,
From a similar thread over at amigawotld.net:
Considering most MOS users I know have at least 2 or more registrations that's hopefully close to 1000 users. Now don't get me wrong this can only be good news but I honestly thought there'd be alot more. So much for the 'cheap hardware will bring the masses' crowd.
It appears there's a lot more than cheap entry into ones decision in choosing an alternative OS.
I see it in different manner: without cheap hardware there would be less users.
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I see it in different manner: without cheap hardware there would be less users.
Impossible to say since no new HW was available for Morphos so you can't compare it's just a guess :) Kamelito
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Considering most MOS users I know have at least 2 or more registrations that's hopefully close to 1000 users.
That sounds reasonable IMHO. Some users of course have only one MorphOS system registered, while others may have a couple, but an average of 2 copies per user does indeed sound like a fair guesstimate.
A few years ago, most people would guess around 700 users, but a lot has been happening to both MorphOS's features and the supported HW platforms since then that without doubt has made the package more attractive. So about 1000 (more or less active) users, or perhaps "unique license owners" would be more appropriate in this context, seems indeed very realistic.
:)
I honestly thought there'd be alot more.
Then I think your expectations about the interest in "Alternative" OS's in general and Amiga related OS's in particular in 2013 is very unrealistic, especially since it's only running on PPC machines with 2005 (tops) level performance. It's obviously only the surviving but steadily diminishing Amiga community that cares. When (if) it would get to run on modern HW like x86, then the situation may become different. Until it does, this is very good numbers IMHO.
This is a lot better than I personally dared to hope for! :)
So much for the 'cheap hardware will bring the masses' crowd. It appears there's a lot more than cheap entry into ones decision in choosing an alternative OS.
The diversity of available HW platforms (both tiny footprint, big box and laptops) has only been good for MorphOS, the statistics clearly shows that if you look at how the graph develops during a month after support for a new platform has been introduced. In several occasions it has also made the graph steeper (an increase in the growth rate, that has then lasted). In retrospect, the decision to support second hand, mainstream PPC Mac HW was a brilliant move. The low cost, the diversity and the performance (the Mac PPC HW represents the peak of PPC, it's as far as the PPC ever went on desktops/laptops) has definitely paid off! :)
These license numbers could not have been reached without the Mac HW support. It surely made MorphOS a lot more available to Amiga enthusiasts. Which for obvious reasons are the only ones interested in MorphOS, not "the masses" as you seem to believe. It's all a zero sum game within the ever-shrinking Amiga (NG) community. And for sure these high numbers could *never* have happened if the MorphOS team had put their hope to €1,000 Sam 460 systems or $3,000+ X1000 systems.
:)
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http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65866
Thanx, threads merged.
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It's the price of the license, not the hardware that's stopping the numbers being higher than they are. I know more than a few people who use MOS on occasion, but are unwilling to shell out $200-ish for a license (that's a full "modern" computer price).
And before the usual suspects get their panties in a twist, this isnt a criticism (I like MOS, and its much more attractive than OS4.x to me in regards to pricing), just a simple truth (from someone who has no interest in playing favorites). In reality there's more people using MOS than the registrations suggest, its just that not all are willing, or able to afford a license.
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Impossible to say since no new HW was available for Morphos so you can't compare it's just a guess :) Kamelito
A few comments to that statement... ;)
- Those "new" computers you must be talking about (Sam440, Sam460, X1000) is *still* of 2005 level (tops) performance, which is very "old" despite being "new".
- The Sam440 was always *way* slower than the Pegasos 2, thus it would have been a major downgrade from what MorphOS users already had.
- The Sam460 is also a bit slower than the Pegasos 2. Maybe not a major downgrade, but certainly not an upgrade either. At best it would serve as a replacement for dead Pegasos 2 systems, but at €1,000 EUR for a system, question is how many would actually care to do it or simply walk away altogether?
- The X1000 performs similar (actually a little poorer) compared to a regular G4 mac laptop of later make. But the price tag is totally insane, especially considering its 2005 level performance. This makes it completely irrelevant.
Current ARM based mobile phones actually have more power than any of the above mentioned systems. That's how "new" they are. And none of them are as tight and small as the Mac Mini, as powerful as the G5 PowerMac or as mobile as the PowerBook. This diversity of the Mac platform has meant a lot for MorphOS growth rate, have a look at this picture:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/1jspir.png)
What I want you to see is the angle on the various lines I have added to the well known graph. The tilt/angle represents the growth rate.
If the MorphOS team hadn't gone for Mac HW in 2009, then the growth would have followed the bottom red line. This represents Peg1/Peg2/Efika5k2. Of course it wouldn't mean that MorphOS would have reached 1000 licenses by now; more likely the growth rate would have flattened out because of market saturation (few would buy a second or third license for yet another Peg2 when they already had one) and limited/decreasing amount of available HW. So it would have landed somewhere inside that pinkish field, probably somewhere between 600-700 licenses sold. (EDIT: Why guess when we already have the answer? :lol: Peg1/Peg2/Efika5k2 together adds up to 740 licenses. Which means it was still a pretty good guess! ;)). Sam440 wouldn't add anything, Sam460 would possibly have added some, it would be a step sideways from the Peg2 but it's at least available as "new" (So 50? 100? 200?). X1000? Definitely not.
Luckily that's not the way the MorphOS team went. Instead they went the Mac HW route. And look how the tilt/angle (growth rate) increases as more and more diversity of HW options are added. The orange line is when they go Mac in the first place (Mac Mini). The yellow is the eMac/PowerMac G4. The green one is when MorphOS goes laptop on the PowerBook/iBook and G5 PowerMac.
- Price does matter
- Performance does matter
- Diversity (many options) does matter
Given the obvious limitations you automatically have when being a PPC only OS, the MorphOS team has certainly made the most out of it. MorphOS currently supports 75 systems (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65055) (seventy-five). MorphOS supports (almost) everything worth supporting of what PPC has to offer! That's what Mac HW strategy meant for MorphOS, instead of going for that "new HW" (cough cough) route that the "competition" went for. This is how MorphOS could reach 2000+ licenses (and counting).
:)
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It's the price of the license, not the hardware that's stopping the numbers being higher than they are. I know more than a few people who use MOS on occasion, but are unwilling to shell out $200-ish for a license (that's a full "modern" computer price).
And before the usual suspects get their panties in a twist, this isnt a criticism (I like MOS, and its much more attractive than OS4.x to me in regards to pricing), just a simple truth (from someone who has no interest in playing favorites). In reality there's more people using MOS than the registrations suggest, its just that not all are willing, or able to afford a license.
Sure, it sucks to pay money, and anything would "sell" more at $0.
But at least the price has come down considerably; at one time a MorphOS license cost €150. Today it cost €79 (~$105) to register a Mac Mini G4, eMac, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, or PowerMac G4. These systems cover 75% of all currently licensed MorphOS systems.
The MorphOS team does have the right to charge money for their licenses, I don't think anyone denies that. There has been a lot of work put into this. AFAIK some components has also been bought/licensed. Nobody is forced to pay, you can try it for free for as long as you want (30 minutes per boot), and you only pay if you like it and want it without that 30 minutes limitation.
MorphOS is the best Amiga NG OS in existence. It has the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, the best stability, the best features, the most and fastest HW that comes in the most options at the best prices.
You can buy a system complete with a full, registered MorphOS license for (more or less) $200. If this is your hobby, you may find it worth it. If not, buy something else instead.
But at least it isn't $2,800+ more, for less. :p ;)
:)
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MOS is a great OS that's well worth purchasing - good to see the strong numbers.
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It's the price of the license, not the hardware that's stopping the numbers being higher than they are. I know more than a few people who use MOS on occasion, but are unwilling to shell out $200-ish for a license (that's a full "modern" computer price).
And before the usual suspects get their panties in a twist, this isnt a criticism (I like MOS, and its much more attractive than OS4.x to me in regards to pricing), just a simple truth (from someone who has no interest in playing favorites). In reality there's more people using MOS than the registrations suggest, its just that not all are willing, or able to afford a license.
+1 I should add that I expected more from Morphos for a first contact. For Amigans that left years ago I would have expected a better first experience. Papiosaur pack help after but now I'm wondering if I should pay that price, for now my powerbook is just not used. Might put Linux on it. Kamelito
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I expected more from Morphos for a first contact. For Amigans that left years ago I would have expected a better first experience. Papiosaur pack help after but now I'm wondering if I should pay that price, for now my powerbook is just not used. Might put Linux on it. Kamelito
I don't really know what you did expect?
Some people, especially those who has been away from Amiga for a decade or two (and I'm not talking about "the Amiga online discussion club" but "the *really using* Amiga club") simply forgot how the Amiga 3.1 floppy brought you *nothing* but a grey, empty workbench, and that you had to spend much time (a process often going on years, never really ending) to customize it into your own personal Amiga system. No Amiga system was like any other.
This can be seen as a journey, and a strength of Amiga. This is what many are talking about when they say that "Amiga gives you control over your system"; when you have set everything up the way you want, when you have arranged everything according to your own personal preferences, when you have installed and configured all the applications and tools you yourself need and want, etc, then you are indeed in control and nobody knows your system as good as you. MorphOS (like any other Amiga OS) is kind of "empty" when freshly installed and it will require some work to set it up from scratch in order to get the system "you'd expect". Many people who migrated back then simply moved their HDD's from their old Amigas into their Peg2's or whatever, installed MorphOS and continued to use everything pretty much as before.
If you however have become used to Windows or MacOS during the last decades, you may have been so accustomed to having everything pre-configured and set up in a fixed structure with no need (or no possibility) to set things up the way you once did on Amiga, and then you may find out that you would "have expected a better first experience". Then you perhaps will look at this as a weakness. Personally I don't agree though. Only Fleecy's and McEwen's "Amiga" was about "using content". ;)
Papisaur's pack indeed serves a purpose here. It will get you going very fast. But IMHO it's not as fun, and the result will basically be "Papisaur's system" (not necessarily a bad thing ;))...
It's a good thing that you can try before you buy though!
:)
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Sure, I didnt mean to suggest that the MOS developers shouldnt be making a few dollars back for their efforts, but nonetheless it is a lot of money for a license, which is a bit of a barrier for many people. It was intended more as a positive in regards to users though. There's more users (albiet some casual due to lack of a license) than the "number of registrations/2.5-ish" formula people seem to be using.
Also, not important, and I dont mean to instigate any sort of vs. nonsense, but the slight OCD in me cant refrain,.....
MorphOS is the best Amiga NG OS in existence. It has the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, the best stability, the best features, the most and fastest HW that comes in the most options at the best prices.
Thats stretching it a bit. AROS "wins" in terms of available hardware, performance, and prices. It also has some nice features thus far lacking in MOS, so "best features" is in the eye of the beholder.
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AROS "wins" in terms of available hardware, performance, and prices. It also has some nice features thus far lacking in MOS, so "best features" is in the eye of the beholder.
While I'm sure AROS is nice and fun (especially for its developers), it's fundamentally different from both MorphOS and OS4, and obviously not really what the majority of the people who opts for either MorphOS or OS4 are looking for (had it been, then they simply would have used AROS instead).
Perhaps a bit off topic also...
;)
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Sure, I didnt mean to suggest that the MOS developers shouldnt be making a few dollars back for their efforts, but nonetheless it is a lot of money for a license, which is a bit of a barrier for many people. It was intended more as a positive in regards to users though. There's more users (albiet some casual due to lack of a license) than the "number of registrations/2.5-ish" formula people seem to be using.
Also, not important, and I dont mean to instigate any sort of vs. nonsense, but the slight OCD in me cant refrain,.....
Thats stretching it a bit. AROS "wins" in terms of available hardware, performance, and prices. It also has some nice features thus far lacking in MOS, so "best features" is in the eye of the beholder.
+1
We should not play the "my choice is the best in everything" game because finally people could realize that this is not the case. I could then talk about a platform that is dependent on PPC or it would loose many of its advantages (when it is ported to another hardware platform). I am excited to see what the MOS team decides, staying on a aging hardware or port it to ARM or X86/X64 (with all problems that this causes including the huge needed efforts to do it). Lets say MorphOS might be (I cannot judge that) best platform on PPC.
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While I'm sure AROS is nice and fun (especially for its developers), it's fundamentally different from both MorphOS and OS4, and obviously not really what the majority of the people who opts for either MorphOS or OS4 are looking for (had it been, then they simply would have used AROS instead).
Perhaps a bit off topic also...
;)
Perhaps might be that they have decided for one platform and stick to it (MorphOS or AmigaOS). The most users have left all platforms over the years, the remainders have their favorite.
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Perhaps might be that they have decided for one platform and stick to it (MorphOS or AmigaOS). The most users have left all platforms over the years, the remainders have their favorite.
Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that there are two categories; MorphOS and OS4 in one, AROS in the other. The differences aren't cosmetic or a matter of "taste", they are fundamental, hence they can't really be compared. MorphOS could also be ported to x86, quite easily and fast I believe, if all legacy ties and backward compatibility should be dropped. If there would be no requirement to preserve binary compatibility and no requirement to run low level native on the HW, then it would be easy. But current MorphOS users didn't choose MorphOS to run their Amiga applications in UAE on some Amiga-like interface hosted on Linux or virtualized.
Please note that I'm not trying to flame AROS here in any way. I'm just pointing out that there are fundamental differences.
One day, probably when MorphOS breaks free from the PPC chains, it will probably move into the AROS realms (otherwise it would be difficult I guess). And if MorphOS would move into that category instead, even if such a release of MorphOS wouldn't be *properly* multithreaded/SMP enabled, 64-bit, memory protected, no max memory limit, etc, in other words — even if it basically would mean just the *current* MorphOS, minus the Amiga binary compatibility, then MorphOS would *still* beat AROS feature wise and bring an overall far better user experience. MorphOS is simply *way* more mature, regardless of CPU architecture, and this isn't really just an opinion.
Again, I am not trying to flame AROS, it's a great and very interesting OS that very much has deserved any recognition and appreciation it can get. And AFAIK it has played a part in MorphOS development as well, both inspirational (what to do, and what not to do), and also in actual code contributions. And I truly hope that there will be someone around to develop AROS forever. Long Live AROS! :)
Still off topic though!
;)
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Some notes:
Congratulations, even numbers aren`t exceedingly high, they show MorphOS team ability to survive in times left with no hardware company beneath. It would be natural to seek good, reliable and widespread hardware and Macs were great choice. For many reasons, from people simply still having them, to reliable and well designed hardware for its times.
On its price: Its great users can try it and then buy it. However you :should have a boxed one, with manual and a bit preconfigured for the machine (even its seen as weakness :-) - SAM 460 port could be first one for team to do so?
That will give presentable MOS product as such - not just Amigan geek thing. SAM 460 is not bad platform at all, limited in expandability but yet quite modern, quiet and fast for its class. How much SAM 460 Lite based system will cost depends on user and doesn`t have to be 1000 euros, specially if you do have most of components at you home.
Having cheaper Acube products needs only higher volumes - something MOS can contribute
(hopefully not only in case Macs or Pegs die?) or eventually introducing some dual core
high end replacement (like it was speculated several times) that would bring SAM 460
as total OS4 low end, effectively replacing 440 (kind of what Flex did to integrated EP niodel).
Eventually it might become only cheaper, it can hardly be more expensive (for end users).
It will end blue - red war in nice fashion, OS4 port for Peg2 did.
Enable people to use both if they want. In such regards until x86 or ARM transition is done also SAM 440 (not to hard to derive from SAM 460 port since CPU is same) and even X1000 should be kept as viable targets.
Even those systems are expensive, they already have some customers (250 OS4 users) that could be added, and offer PCI-E, SATA and other modern standards often beyond Mac and there aren`t 2005 performers. Test declassifying SAM 440/460 and X1000 to Macs in CPU performance clearly show way better performance in memory and disk drive transfers, as well as there is PCI-E as expansion that offers unlimited possibility to make drivers you could use later on in transition.
Not everywhere like in US PPC Macs are widespread, offered a lot and thus low priced. At least in East Europe there way few users (I kind of have seen them twice in life) and they still cost quite a lot. Pegs are history and Efika simply ins`t it.
Hope MorphOS can also have a great future, even its not official, nor has hardware vendor behind. In such battle, even OS4 users are somewhat allies that do know what do you talk about :-)
Hmmm ... which will come first (or ever?) MorphOS 4 or AmigaOS 5? :-)
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If you however have become used to Windows or MacOS during the last decades, you may have been so accustomed to having everything pre-configured and set up in a fixed structure with no need (or no possibility) to set things up the way you once did on Amiga, and then you may find out that you would "have expected a better first experience". Then you perhaps will look at this as a weakness. Personally I don't agree though. Only Fleecy's and McEwen's "Amiga" was about "using content". ;)
Papisaur's pack indeed serves a purpose here. It will get you going very fast. But IMHO it's not as fun, and the result will basically be "Papisaur's system" (not necessarily a bad thing ;))...
It's a good thing that you can try before you buy though!
:)
Exactly, I use Windows for work as many I suppose, Mac at home and while I did all the settings you spoke about in the old days (I even wrote the first program that remove borders around icons, because I didn't like them, check Aminet). Now I'm maybe too old to do that kind of things, it's the same as configuring computers, repairing them, same for the OS, I'm kind of lazy today, it doesn't interest me anymore. I just expect things to work well. Even a friend of mine tried the Amiga recently using a Raspberry PI and he didn't remember how to use one and was surprised that the UI didn't evolved since 3.1. (again first contact). One thing also that make me hold back buying Morphos and I can't explain it, is the fact that AmigaOS 4 is an evolution of the "real" Amiga OS. It's kind of important to me that code and design from Mike Sinz, RJ Mical, Andy Finkel, Dale Luck, Randell Jesup etc is present there because they were our gods. You tend to minimize the importance of the first impression. One more thing, developers are vital and good documentation is the first step, wiki.amigaos.net seems to be the way to go, it seems that http://library.morphzone.info/Main_Page is not as complete but I might be wrong. Kamelito
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Exactly, I use Windows for work as many I suppose, Mac at home and while I did all the settings you spoke about in the old days (I even wrote the first program that remove borders around icons, because I didn't like them, check Aminet). Now I'm maybe too old to do that kind of things, it's the same as configuring computers, repairing them, same for the OS, I'm kind of lazy today, it doesn't interest me anymore. I just expect things to work well. Even a friend of mine tried the Amiga recently using a Raspberry PI and he didn't remember how to use one and was surprised that the UI didn't evolved since 3.1. (again first contact). One thing also that make me hold back buying Morphos and I can't explain it, is the fact that AmigaOS 4 is an evolution of the "real" Amiga OS. It's kind of important to me that code and design from Mike Sinz, RJ Mical, Andy Finkel, Dale Luck, Randell Jesup etc is present there because they were our gods. You tend to minimize the importance of the first impression. One more thing, developers are vital and good documentation is the first step, wiki.amigaos.net seems to be the way to go, it seems that http://library.morphzone.info/Main_Page is not as complete but I might be wrong. Kamelito
:roflmao:
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What a strange coincidence. I was just pricing eBay for a cheap PowerMac G4 with which to run MorphOS. Hopefully others are looking into the OS as well.
The wife and I do a bit of surfing, log on to our credit union, do word processing and spreadsheet work with OpenOffice, and watch Netflix. Can MorphOS run Netflix?
We've been using Ubuntu for a while now and have never been completely satisfied with it, but it can run Netflix, albeit with occasional Silverlight upgrade issues. It would be awesome to win the wife over to an Amiga OS after all these years, but I'm not sure if it will break our "television" or not.
Now if only the Amiga name was public domain. It would be nice if MorphOS was named "Amiga MorphOS" or "MorphOS Amiga"; such a name would make it easier to brag about being an Amiga die hard.
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Exactly, I use Windows for work as many I suppose, Mac at home and while I did all the settings you spoke about in the old days (I even wrote the first program that remove borders around icons, because I didn't like them, check Aminet). Now I'm maybe too old to do that kind of things, it's the same as configuring computers, repairing them, same for the OS, I'm kind of lazy today, it doesn't interest me anymore. I just expect things to work well. Even a friend of mine tried the Amiga recently using a Raspberry PI and he didn't remember how to use one and was surprised that the UI didn't evolved since 3.1. (again first contact). One thing also that make me hold back buying Morphos and I can't explain it, is the fact that AmigaOS 4 is an evolution of the "real" Amiga OS. It's kind of important to me that code and design from Mike Sinz, RJ Mical, Andy Finkel, Dale Luck, Randell Jesup etc is present there because they were our gods. You tend to minimize the importance of the first impression. One more thing, developers are vital and good documentation is the first step, wiki.amigaos.net seems to be the way to go, it seems that http://library.morphzone.info/Main_Page is not as complete but I might be wrong. Kamelito
that kind of "heritage" seems to be important to the "AmigaOS" community, as the used themes, icons and naming. But it is not important to the outside. I had contact to former amiga developers who were very disappointed about the direction AmigaOS took and left the community (one even warned me to start with amiga and said he is more happy now without). If these visual elements and old sources are all AmigaOS will have no future.
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Some notes:
they show MorphOS team ability to survive in times left with no hardware company beneath.
As does most OS's, except perhaps MacOS.
As I tried to discuss above, going the Acube/Aeon route would have put MorphOS in a much worse position than what it is today. The problem isn't lack of HW, the problem is PPC and a dead architecture. But the MorphOS team surely made the most out of what was available. Soon there isn't anything more worth supporting.
you :should have a boxed one, with manual
Completely unnecessary. Only makes it more expensive and doesn't bring any real additional value.
and a bit preconfigured for the machine (even its seen as weakness :-)
I think you misinterpreted my above answer to kamelito — of course MorphOS is configured to run on the machines it supports!
SAM 460 port could be first one for team to do so?
The fact that OS4 users are prone to pay sh!tloads of money for OS4 stuff (HW, OS, boxes with boing balls etc) doesn't automatically mean they are willing to pay similar amounts for an expensive cardboard box with printed manual for MorphOS. After all, it isn't "teh reel!!1!" and doesn't have a boing ball slapped on it.
That will give presentable MOS product as such - not just Amigan geek thing.
Amiga geeks are the only ones interested in MorphOS in its current incarnation.
Having cheaper Acube products needs only higher volumes - something MOS can contribute
Volumes are so low in Acube products anyway that a MorphOS port couldn't do a thing to improve economy of scale. To be able to lower price thanks to economy of scale, you need mass production in China and bulk purchasing of components in tens of thousands. I don't see how a MorphOS port could have that kind of result on Acube sales.
eventually introducing some dual core high end replacement
Amiga is single core only. It can't be anything else (except through asymmetric multi processing, which isn't really that useful for general usage). If MorphOS would introduce true SMP, then Amiga compatibility has to be broken anyway, so why bother with PPC at all at that point? Why not go to a HW architecture that still has a pulse? Besides, MorphOS already runs on dual CPU HW (single core, of course).
that would bring SAM 460 as total OS4 low end, effectively replacing 440 (kind of what Flex did to integrated EP niodel).
Everything "Sam" is very low end...
Eventually it might become only cheaper, it can hardly be more expensive (for end users).
That's what I and most people thought as well a few years ago. Then came A-eon and proved everyone wrong! :lol:
It will end blue - red war in nice fashion, OS4 port for Peg2 did.
Funny that they only released OS4 for Pegasos 2 after it had reached EOL (I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was released), when it could no longer help sales or grow the Peg2 community. Anyway, OS4 users could only buy Pegasos 2 as second hand HW. Think about that, you "but-it's-not-new-HW" crybabies! :lol: ;)
Enable people to use both if they want. In such regards until x86 or ARM transition is done also SAM 440 (not to hard to derive from SAM 460 port since CPU is same)
The CPU is absolutely not the same, and neither is anything else. Sam440 may be faster than an Efika5k2, but it's still only "G2" class HW thus it's not very useful. The Efika5k2 (while having some quirks, oddities and bottle necks) at least have the quite big advantage of costing only $99. MorphOS already supports that, if you are interested in that kind of low power HW. And it can still be bought as new. But few people ought to be interested in that type of HW so I can't see how it would be worth the effort.
and even X1000 should be kept as viable targets.
Even those systems are expensive, they already have some customers (250 OS4 users) that could be added
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of those 250 OS4 users also has a MorphOS system today. Running on a cheap Mac. There are a lot more "dual users" than many seems to think. They aren't always making a lot of fuss about it though.
and offer PCI-E, SATA and other modern standards often beyond Mac
Here we go again! :rolleyes:
SATA isn't anything magic or anything "milestone"-alike, and MorphOS already supports a SATA card for those who need one. And PCI-E is just a freakin' bus, there is no magic or "milestone" there either! The day the MorphOS team decides to support a motherboard that is using a PCI-E controller, then they will simply write support for that controller, just like they always do with all the other controllers on all the other motherboards they decides to support. No magic involved, no "technology milestones". And certainly no X1000 is needed for anything.
and there aren`t 2005 performers.
The PA6T is the most powerful of them all, and it performs on par with (or slightly below) 2005 level G4 Mac's.
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As does most OS's, except perhaps MacOS.
I am not aware any OS had such long as difficult history as AmigaOS/MorphOS. That is our specialty :-)
As I tried to discuss above, going the Acube/Aeon route would have put MorphOS in a much worse position than what it is today. The problem isn't lack of HW, the problem is PPC and a dead architecture. But the MorphOS team surely made the most out of what was available. Soon there isn't anything more worth supporting
Completely unnecessary. Only makes it more expensive and doesn't bring any real additional value.
Its not dead, just not price/performant and would not be even if PPC Macs were new and avail HW (do people remember how these used to cost when they were new?)
I agree taking Mac route was better choice seen in user numbers, but why not exploiting only availiable route until PPC is left behind, and that is AEON/ACube? Especially if its well known these companies do support it (not in paying for port but would be in promoting it and giving hardware)
The fact that OS4 users are prone to pay sh!tloads of money for OS4 stuff (HW, OS, boxes with boing balls etc) doesn't automatically mean they are willing to pay similar amounts for an expensive cardboard box with printed manual for MorphOS. After all, it isn't "teh reel!!1!" and doesn't have a boing ball slapped on it.
Your choice in digital age, but again, having actual physcial copy does not hurt either. Its not gonna mass sell, but surely users would buy it together with SAM460 or for collectors / having physical copies.
Call me old fashioned, but I still do buy CDs/Vynils and not mp3s. If I do need an mp3 I ll encode it on my own. Same goes for software avail in physical copies.
Amiga geeks are the only ones interested in MorphOS in its current incarnation.
And that would be the reason more to go for those 250 OS4 users.
Most of them would try it and likely most of those who try would buy it if it would be avail for their SAMs/X1000
Volumes are so low in Acube products anyway that a MorphOS port couldn't do a thing to improve economy of scale. To be able to lower price thanks to economy of scale, you need mass production in China and bulk purchasing of components in tens of thousands. I don't see how a MorphOS port could have that kind of result on Acube sales.
True in overall, but having more 50 or 100 orders could create another volume that would cost a bit less, even in present low scale economy.
Amiga is single core only. It can't be anything else (except through asymmetric multi processing, which isn't really that useful for general usage). If MorphOS would introduce true SMP, then Amiga compatibility has to be broken anyway, so why bother with PPC at all at that point? Why not go to a HW architecture that still has a pulse? Besides, MorphOS already runs on dual CPU HW (single core, of course).
Wasn`t that (breaking away AmigaOS chains and SMP) one of original MorphOS goals that would eventually be met with x86/ARM transition?
Surely most effort should be put to it, but its a long road to go.
Everything "Sam" is very low end...
Well its a system on chip concenpt, never ment to be a killer.
But is in between Efika and Peg2, which most of users would find
satisfactory (as well as they do work OK on less optimized OS4)
That's what I and most people thought as well a few years ago. Then came A-eon and proved everyone wrong! :lol:
No, but even MOS users could agree it gave a new pulse to OS4 community. Trevor is doing great job there, sadly OS4 development is not on pair with his efforts.
Funny that they only released OS4 for Pegasos 2 after it had reached EOL (I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was released), when it could no longer help sales or grow the Peg2 community. Anyway, OS4 users could only buy Pegasos 2 as second hand HW. Think about that, you "but-it's-not-new-HW" crybabies! :lol: ;)
Well, you may take that perspective, but do remember AOS4 had big hustle and almost prevention of release for SAM by Amiga Inc strict AmigaOne/PowerUp license and restrictions in AmigaOne branding - something MOS team never had (not that Genesi played great, but ...)
The CPU is absolutely not the same, and neither is anything else.
Not in full SOCC/board terms, but in CPU terms they are.
Its basically 440 with better northbridge and higher clock and cache.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of those 250 OS4 users also has a MorphOS system today. Running on a cheap Mac. There are a lot more "dual users" than many seems to think. They aren't always making a lot of fuss about it though.
I do know only of Trevor - presumably people that already had PPC Mac.
I was tempted to buy G5 Mac just for that cause, but it slipped me on auctioning.
SATA isn't anything magic or anything "milestone"-alike, and MorphOS already supports a SATA card for those who need one. And PCI-E is just a freakin' bus, there is no magic or "milestone" there either! The day the MorphOS team decides to support a motherboard that is using a PCI-E controller, then they will simply write support for that controller, just like they always do with all the other controllers on all the other motherboards they decides to support. No magic involved, no "technology milestones". And certainly no X1000 is needed for anything.
Surely, but all Macs but last G5 models and PegsII (mainly g4 processors) were tied to north/south bridge combination that provided only
AGP/PCI/IDE. This kind of expandability is performance step forward in same way as CPU class is.
Why not starting with that high end G5 and SAM 460?
RadeonHD route seems to be natural route for MorphOS too.
The PA6T is the most powerful of them all, and it performs on par with (or slightly below) 2005 level G4 Mac's.
As far as I do remember, G4 2Ghz was faster then PA Semi 1.8Ghz single core (a bit on 20% higher frequency anyway) and decent test on Linux that would use both cores, were never presented. I will try to do some when I do get my paid X1000.
I`m not saying some of the choices were wrong - in fact they aren`t, but your most likely closest market is actually OS4 one. Why not taking a bite there too?
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Go MorphOS! The Amiga solution hobbyists can actually afford! :)
(And this is not a slam against AROS, as I have machines for both.) But profit is incentive for work to progress and AROS, as an open source solution, has less reason to move forward.
Keep up the good work, guys. :)
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Go MorphOS! The Amiga solution hobbyists can actually afford! :)
(And this is not a slam against AROS, as I have machines for both.) But profit is incentive for work to progress and AROS, as an open source solution, has less reason to move forward.
Keep up the good work, guys. :)
I gratulate MorphOS team too
(I take it as sign of honor that people now all the time compare it to AROS :-) ).
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Well, to be honest, AROS' greatest strength is it's wealth of available platforms. It's greatest weakness, OTOH, is that it is open source. MHO, of course. To me, the difference is that open source gets done it gets done, whereas for profit gets done _when it's needed,_ although not always as well as open source. Now, not to dis MorphOS, but if AROS were for profit, we'd probably have as good a solution -- including 68k compatibility-- as MorphOS and many more licenses...
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Well, to be honest, AROS' greatest strength is it's wealth of available platforms. It's greatest weakness, OTOH, is that it is open source. MHO, of course. To me, the difference is that open source gets done it gets done, whereas for profit gets done _when it's needed,_ although not always as well as open source. Now, not to dis MorphOS, but if AROS were for profit, we'd probably have as good a solution -- including 68k compatibility-- as MorphOS and many more licenses...
that is offtopic again
but to respond... to say that AROS is less advanced/progressed as MorphOS is generally said not true. It is true that both OSs have their strength and weaknesses and there are differences regarding 68k integration (that are unavoidable). What the MorphOS team members always understood is that it is more important to have a stable, bugfree OS with a decent desktop to "sell" it (motivate people to use it). On Opensource "selling" it is not that important, instead people implemented features they wanted to have like MESA/Gallium. Desktop was always the weakest point but that will be solved with Magellan. So we should talk again after Magellan used as base for the distributions in a couple of months.
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Honestly, Olaf? I don't think we're disagreeing at all. All you've done is spell out what I'm effectively saying: both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses.
That said, I don't want to detract from this thread too much either. The fact is, MorphOS is a excellent Amiga solution and their smartest move was to make it available for old Mac hardware, which is exactly why I'm counted among the 2k licenses they've sold so far. Good job, guys. :)
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And that would be the reason more to go for those 250 OS4 users.
Most of them would try it and likely most of those who try would buy it if it would be avail for their SAMs/X1000
I actually think it's fair to believe that many of them is *already* using MorphOS. The number of MorphOS licenses isn't the only thing that has grown, there has been plenty of new users as well (there are many signs of that). And because it's basically a zero sum game within the already existing population, it can only mean that many OS4 users are now (also) MorphOS users. It's cheap and easy to become a MorphOS user. No need for Sam/X1000 support. It's also the only way to use a laptop or more powerful HW. Superior diversity, ultra low cost, highest performance available, best Amiga compatibility, and the development actually still going on and moving forward; you can only ignore that for so long!
;)
True in overall, but having more 50 or 100 orders could create another volume that would cost a bit less, even in present low scale economy.
No. 50 or 100 orders can't do that.
Well its a system on chip concenpt, never ment to be a killer.
It was never meant to be used in a desktop context, period. Not even back when it was made.
No, but even MOS users could agree it gave a new pulse to OS4 community.
Eh no, it didn't. What it did was helping MorphOS going through the 2000 licenses barrier! :p
As far as I do remember, G4 2Ghz was faster then PA Semi 1.8Ghz single core
Then we clearly remember differently; what I remember is that a standard 2005 Powerbook G4 1,67GHz laptop beat the X1000 with margin.
But it doesn't matter and I don't care, this is about MorphOS, and the X1000 is utterly irrelevant.
:)
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Then we clearly remember differently; what I remember is that a standard 2005 Powerbook G4 1,67GHz laptop beat the X1000 with margin.
But it doesn't matter and I don't care, this is about MorphOS, and the X1000 is utterly irrelevant.
:)
sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.
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sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.
As OS4 can only use.
That argument makes no sense, it's like saying "MorphOS benchmark isn't accurate as it only used one core of a 2.7GHz Dual Processor G5".
Both OS's are single core so of course any test will only use one core.
A dual CPU G4 PowerMac would still beat the dual core X1000 on a multi threaded Linux benchmark.
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sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.
Amiga is a single core OS, so yes.
Besides, there are a few dual core/CPU machines available for MorphOS with more dual-power than the X1000.
;)
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Amiga is a single core OS, so yes.
Besides, there are a few dual core/CPU machines available for MorphOS with more dual-power than the X1000.
;)
true for now but hopefully we (all flavours) get dual core support:)
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Another part of the Apple invasion into the Amiga market which Steve Jobs started some 20 odd years ago. They just keep on trying.
@fishy fiz,
You are correct sir, I tried it, and somewhat like what I see, but face it, $200 for a OS that is still being developed, is about $151 more than Micro soft windows 8.
For that $49 that I spent for Windows 8, there is support for the computer that I am using if needed. I can buy just about any PC I want to use, and best of all there is software development and game development for it, and I don't have to wait 10 years for it to come out. GREAT STUFF.
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Yeah Smurf,
But none of my money went into Bill Gates' pocket.
And my iBook was less than $100 on eBay.
BTW - I'm not a big Apple fan either.
But on the used market, their old hardware is cheap and works well.
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You are correct sir, I tried it, and somewhat like what I see, but face it, $200 for a OS that is still being developed, is about $151 more than Micro soft windows 8.
For that $49 that I spent for Windows 8, there is support for the computer that I am using if needed. I can buy just about any PC I want to use, and best of all there is software development and game development for it, and I don't have to wait 10 years for it to come out. GREAT STUFF.
yes but the point is that by buying a legit copy of MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x or using AROS (since it's already free) your supporting the current Amiga market & that's the main reason why most of us are here after all
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Yeah Smurf,
But none of my money went into Bill Gates' pocket.
And my iBook was less than $100 on eBay.
You can buy a cheap x86 laptop too. I don't have a problem with Bill Gates, he's a geek and he built a computer business that ruled the word. Steve Jobs on the other hand was just a salesman. Steve Wozniak was the one with integrity and he bailed from apple very early.
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yes but the point is that by buying a legit copy of MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x or using AROS (since it's already free) your supporting the current Amiga market & that's the main reason why most of us are here after all
Hi,
You Sir are correct, that is why I keep dropping in here is to see what the latest devel's are, I got my mini mac ready and will probably buy MorphOS once I like what I see, but right now I am investing all my extra cash, which is hard to come by since I retired, to fix a bunch of broken Amiga's that I came across, I have 2 A500's, 2 A3000's, 5 CD32 mother boards, and an Amiga 4000 and a Mac in an apple tree and all this I got was free.
Hopefully I will be able to resurrect some of them. If not I will use them for parts, I already have plans of removing the caps from one of the really bad CD32's for the A4000, which looks like it has a bunch of dried out caps, the two A500's looks like bad Gary chips, I know for sure one is bad, the other I think is barely hanging in there. Play with it more tommorow.
Anyhow as most of you know Amiga and Apple where really bad enemies when back in the days that the Amiga first came out. I guess the Apple salesman was right when he told everyone "Which would you trust more, Amiga a new machine with fancy show, or a strong dedicated proven machine like apple which will be here long after the Amiga is dead and gone. I will never forget when I heard him tell a customer that.
anyhow onward and upwards "What will come first, a new Amiga, AROS, or MorphOS"
Competition is fierce, and MorphOS who I believe is the underdog, may arise through a comeback victory.
Any one know what happened to DraCo, are they still going?
smerf
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Any one know what happened to DraCo, are they still going?
http://www.macrosystem.us/
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Yeah Smurf,
But none of my money went into Bill Gates' pocket.
And my iBook was less than $100 on eBay.
BTW - I'm not a big Apple fan either.
But on the used market, their old hardware is cheap and works well.
Hi,
@Iggy,
Do you know what happens when sheet hit the fan, it becomes apples sauce and that is pretty cheap too.
Well Bill Gates supports charity, and donates a lot of bucks to it, so I am pretty happy where my money went, and at least he didn't lie like some religions did.
You know apple products sound like Obummer, I did this, I ordered that, I gave the order, I approved the plans, I sent the seals I, I, I, I.
By the way Iggy, glad to see you back and well, I classify you as one of my friendly enemies, you always keep me straight.
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@smerf
From Slashdot
http://science.slashdot.org/story/13...ipes-at-google (http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/08/08/1622238/bill-gates-promotes-vaccine-projects-swipes-at-google)
Quoted from link
"Bill Gates is not the philanthropist he pretends to be. The Gates Foundation has an endowment of $30 Billion making it the largest philanthropic organization in the world. But one third of that money is invested in companies whose practices run counter to the foundation’s supposed charitable goals and social mission. In Niger, the Foundation has invested more than $400 million dollars in oil companies including Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon Mobil Corp, and Chevron. These firms have been responsible for much of the pollution causing respiratory problems and other afflictions among the local population. The Gates Foundation also has investments in sixty-nine of the worst polluting companies in the US and Canada, including Dow Chemical.
It holds investments in pharmaceutical companies whose drugs cost far beyond what most patients around the world can afford and the Foundation often lobbies on behalf of those companies for "Intellectual Property" protections that make obtaining low cost medicines more difficult. Other companies in the Foundation’s portfolio have been accused of forcing thousands of people to lose their homes, supporting child labor and defrauding and neglecting patients in need of medical care. In the mean time, Bill Gates' net worth has gone from $50 Billion to $70 Billion over the last 3 years."
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I'm no fan of Gates nor some of the practices of his foundation but let's compare him to Jobs.
One of the first things he did when returning to Apple was to cancel all charitable contributions permanently. Even when sitting on the largest cash reserves that any company has had in history.
Classy guy and about as far from the teachings of Buddha (Who he claimed to be a follower of) as one could be.
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Quoted from link
"Bill Gates is not the philanthropist he pretends to be. The Gates Foundation has an endowment of $30 Billion making it the largest philanthropic organization in the world. But one third of that money is invested in companies whose practices run counter to the foundation’s supposed charitable goals and social mission. In Niger, the Foundation has invested more than $400 million dollars in oil companies including Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon Mobil Corp, and Chevron. These firms have been responsible for much of the pollution causing respiratory problems and other afflictions among the local population. The Gates Foundation also has investments in sixty-nine of the worst polluting companies in the US and Canada, including Dow Chemical.
Whoever wrote that is missing the point. The only way to change what a company does is to buy stock in it. Plus when you buy stocks on the open market the money doesn't go to the company.
It's sloppy journalism.
Classy guy and about as far from the teachings of Buddha (Who he claimed to be a follower of) as one could be.
He became Buddhist for the girls, they love religion.
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Whoever wrote that is missing the point. The only way to change what a company does is to buy stock in it. Plus when you buy stocks on the open market the money doesn't go to the company.
It's sloppy journalism.
He became Buddhist for the girls, they love religion.
That explains why more women convert to Islam than men then.
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That explains why more women convert to Islam than men then.
I think the whole stoning to death thing puts a lot of women off.
I don't know how many male muslims buy into the 72 virgins myth.
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I don't really see how Bill Gates, religion, and stoning of muslims relates to MorphOS breaking the 2000 licenses barrier.
There is a topic of this thread, you know...
;)
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I'm no fan of Gates nor some of the practices of his foundation but let's compare him to Jobs.
One of the first things he did when returning to Apple was to cancel all charitable contributions permanently. Even when sitting on the largest cash reserves that any company has had in history.
Classy guy and about as far from the teachings of Buddha (Who he claimed to be a follower of) as one could be.
This post was reported as inaccurate. Cite sources please or it's just hearsay.
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This post was reported as inaccurate. Cite sources please or it's just hearsay.
in 1997, when Mr. Jobs returned to Apple, he closed the company’s philanthropic programs. At the time, he said he wanted to restore the company’s profitability. Despite the company’s $14 billion in profits last year and its $76 billion cash pile today, the giving programs have never been reinstated.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/the-mystery-of-steve-jobss-public-giving/
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well it finally happened. the power supply on my A1200 tower went out . since 1993 i have had a working A1200 . now i have two A1200s and a cd32 all needing parts. i cant really decide if i should get the A1200 powersupply fixed or get Morph Os for my powerbook G4 ?? if i get Morph i'll also have to get a disc drive adapter that will work with the power book as i have boxes full of amiga discs lol. still probly cheaper to get the power supply fixed than to go Morph , but additional features with morph like dvd better net ect. i try to live on as little money as possible and i have really gotten my moneys worth with Amiga these past 20 years . i hate to abandon the original hardware but i dont have money to do both repair powersupply and get morph. it is encouraging to me that morph has passed the 2000 user mark . makes me a bit more willing to put some cash up.